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change gambling problem call 1800 bets off [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
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is always is a man who finally told me after 700 episodes I don't know what to say cuz you talk too much here is the
00:01:23
cap shut your yipper hole it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling Big Pop
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[Music] today we are drinking perception is spoonfed by vitamin C Brewing this is a
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4.7% ABV fruited sour some say they can taste some marshmallow and maybe a hint of gram cracker crust garage grade three
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and A2 bottle caps out of five and let's give some thanks and praise to our good
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friends for helping us out this week here Captain first up a shout out to Susan Davies Brown and Julianne North
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Carolina and a big we like your DP goes out to tuck from Fairfield Connecticut and here's a double fisted cheers to Pat
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Run did you know you can follow us on Instagram Facebook Twitter Tik Tock or like I like to call it Tic Tac
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or YouTube tons of content it's all free follow us at True Crime garage and Kel that's enough of the Beers N all right
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime you heard it at the end of part
00:03:00
one where the defense attorneys are claiming that there's a conflict of interest here as far as the
00:03:06
investigation goes and the persons that would be involved in giving statements as to what took place that night and a
00:03:14
lot of that's going to be based around the occupations of the persons that were gathering that night at the bar that
00:03:21
were hanging out at the Afterparty if you will that night the night that John O'Keefe passed away that he was killed
00:03:29
and let's go through some of the who's who because we've mentioned a lot of names along the way and during our
00:03:36
timeline but to fill this out and give a complete picture here we have to go through the who's
00:03:43
who of this case as well as the persons that are giving statements as to what took place because like we said in part
00:03:51
one you have Karen Reed who's saying he got out of the car John got out of the car and he was fine when I left him he
00:03:58
went into that house and some terrible happened to him in there the question becomes who was in that house yes you
00:04:04
have everybody else at the house and according to the affidavit states that 11 people are inside that home and none
00:04:12
of them say that John ever made it into the house that night again that for me Captain is when you tear this thing down
00:04:20
to the studs as complicated and as confusing and convoluted as this whole mess is when you tear this thing down to
00:04:29
the studs to its simplest of forms the breaking point for me is did he go in the house because if he went in the
00:04:36
house she cannot be responsible and if he did go in the house then somebody else is responsible because again the
00:04:42
state and the defense is in agreeance the one thing that they can agree on is that somebody is responsible for the
00:04:51
death of this man of this good man let's start with Brian Albert so who is Brian
00:04:57
Albert Brian Albert is a auson police officer he was among the group drinking on the night of January 28th
00:05:06
2022 he is also the owner of the home where O'Keefe was found outside found to be dead Karen Reed's defense team has
00:05:17
voiced its intent to use this thirdparty culprit defense right meaning our client
00:05:23
is not guilty it wasn't an accident somebody else who's not on trial is responsible for the death and murder of
00:05:32
this man her attorney said that Brian Albert and two other people had quote a motive the opportunity and means to
00:05:42
attack John O'Keeffe the prosecutors rebuttal to such a statement will be that this is there's nothing here
00:05:49
there's no evidence to suggest this this is just the defense team's claims and the only thing that's fueling this is
00:05:56
their fertile imagination so Brian Albert is one of the person persons that were there that night he's also the
00:06:01
owner of the home he is or was at the time a Boston police officer we also have Brian Albert Jr which you can tell
00:06:12
by the name is Brian Albert's son he was at the Gathering at Albert's home the night of January 28th as well
00:06:21
and from it's been reported that that was his birthday then we also have another Albert we have Chris Albert who
00:06:28
is Brian Albert 's brother so Brian Albert senior's brother he also serves on the Canton select board so this is a
00:06:39
a government office this is a this is an official a city official he has testified that he was at the restaurant
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and bar with a group with the group in the hours before John O'Keefe's death Chris Albert was neighbors with John
00:06:55
O'Keefe this reported by Boston magazine this is where things get a little bit complicated right the Chris Albert link
00:07:04
here because that's going to link a one Colin Albert Colin Albert is the son of Chris and Chris's wife Julie Albert
00:07:13
Karen Reed's defense team says that Colin was at the Canton home the night before O'Keefe was found dead he is one
00:07:21
of three that reads lawyers said had quote a motive the opportunity and the means to attack John Oak Kee prosecutors
00:07:31
rebuttal to that is that Colin had left his uncle's home before John O'Keefe and
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Karen Reed even arrived now this is really a there's a lot hinging on what time Colin Albert would have left this
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house yeah because they don't just make a suggestion that Colin Albert and other
00:07:54
persons there may have been involved there's even a bit of a narrative floating out there correct that that
00:08:00
Colin Albert was a bit of a nuisance a bully yeah a bit of a hotthead and that he he regularly got into fights there's
00:08:09
a reporter out there that goes by the title of turtle boy oh God who has yeah I was hoping to avoid that but uh not
00:08:16
turtle boy I guess guess we can't turtle boy has reported and shown pictures on YouTube and Tik Tok and everywhere else
00:08:24
that he can a picture that he says was taken shortly after the night that joh O'Keefe was killed and in that picture
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again I I would love to for somebody to prove it to me I'm not saying that it didn't this picture wasn't taken when
00:08:40
turtle boy says it was I just don't know what he's basing that off of there's no
00:08:44
description given when I saw the picture but what I can see in the picture even before Mr Turtle Boy pointed it out is
00:08:53
there were clearly cuts open wound like scabbed up cuts on the knuckles on the right knuckle of this Colin Albert the
00:09:03
free Karen Reed people are saying this could be an indicator that he was involved in a fight or an attack on
00:09:14
o'keef before he was that means we also have Julie Albert who is Chris Albert's wife and Colin Albert's mother she has
00:09:22
testified that she was at the restaurant and bar with the group in the hours before johon O'Keefe's death
00:09:29
we also have Kevin Albert who is Brian's brother he serves on the Canton Police Department as a detective we have a one
00:09:38
Brian Higgins who is an agent with the US Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and explosives he was reportedly at the
00:09:46
Fairview Road home the night before O'Keefe was found dead he is one of three who reads defense team says had a
00:09:55
motive the opportunity and means to attack John O'Keefe Higgins was reportedly a friend of Brian Albert and
00:10:02
the Commonwealth stated that the defense's statements about Higgins lacked evidence and made for a fanul
00:10:07
story now the way that some of the story would go right the way that it would play
00:10:13
out as the defense team pushes it Forward is that at some point in the evening after John O'Keefe goes inside
00:10:21
to the home and after Karen Reed had dropped him off and left the residents right a fight breaks out some have
00:10:28
suggested that they might have been some prior engagements or beef between I believe it's Colin Albert and John
00:10:38
O'Keefe the way that I believe this to go is that Chris Albert is somewhat of a neighbor of John
00:10:44
O'Keefe and that Colin Albert as you pointed out earlier Captain bit of a bully at times or at least has been
00:10:52
reported right we don't know the guy but it's been reported that he's a bit of a
00:10:56
bully I've also seen it reported that he's a hotthead and that he engages people in
00:11:02
altercations and fights and that maybe Colin Albert had done something to upset Jon O'Keefe at some point being his
00:11:12
neighbor and I sometimes it's reported that they live next door I actually believe that he lives a few doors down
00:11:19
yeah I believe like I because I the better Outlets are reporting that the Alberts live about three or four houses
00:11:27
away from John O'Keefe and that they had some kind of neighborhood disagreement now the problem with that is I don't
00:11:35
have a great timeline if that if that were something to have occurred I'm yet to see somebody present
00:11:41
a great timeline on when that all started right because there's a there there comes a point where you let
00:11:49
bygones be bygones right that if something happened a long time ago and you happen to show up to the same house
00:11:55
and everybody's having a good time that night that it could all just be water under the bridge yeah look the defense
00:12:02
could have their idea correctly but maybe the motive is incorrect because we know when people get drunk people say
00:12:09
stupid things I'm raising my hand mhm and sometimes when people are drinking they get aggressive they might have the
00:12:17
right idea of Who's involved but they don't know what the mo motivation was Jennifer McCabe is somebody that we've
00:12:23
talked about a little bit throughout she is Brian's sister-in-law she is married and she has
00:12:31
really become a focal point of this trial and really become a focal point of the
00:12:40
defense where it's being suggested that she had awareness of what happened what truly
00:12:48
happened to John O'Keefe that night right and that she may have orchestrated some of the cover up I I'm hesitant to
00:12:56
dive into the details of that yet but let's talk about some of the the theories like if it were not to have
00:13:04
been Karen Reed because I'm sure there's no shortage of theories that you have heard right or read somewhere because
00:13:12
I've heard everything from well Colin and and John didn't get along and they must have got into it at
00:13:21
some point and then others jumped in and it became this what started off as maybe a
00:13:27
fight then turned into several men attacking and beating John O'Keefe I've also heard that the that
00:13:36
the dog Chloe the house dog that that lived at the house there was somehow involved either you know one version of
00:13:44
the story says that John was drunk and he stepped on the dog's tail and the dog bit him or attacked him and then the
00:13:50
owner stepped in and it turned into a two or three or four against one situation and then the other version is
00:13:58
that a fight broke out between Colin and John and the dog then came to the defense of the
00:14:07
homeowner who got involved it you know it's a I I feel like there's no shortage of scenarios yes possible scenarios and
00:14:16
and the truth is that if Jon did make it into that house one two three four of these people have to know what happened
00:14:26
to them maybe not all of them maybe not all of them well the problem is the inconsistencies of their story and even
00:14:34
on trial there's inconsistencies and then there's I think in multiple cases there's actual
00:14:44
proof that some of these people are lying like the the records tell us one thing and you're telling us something
00:14:51
else but then you're telling us that the records at this time of the cell phone data is correct but at this time you're
00:14:59
saying it's not correct and here's where the the police should be ashamed because
00:15:05
you have an officer dead at an officer's house after a bunch of people were drinking and driving and I don't think
00:15:14
they did a proper investigation they should have cornered who was in that house that night who was at the party
00:15:22
you question them right away so you can get a better timeline and they didn't do
00:15:27
that and that's not just to that's not just to protect the victim but that's to protect your other fellow officers that
00:15:35
are in the house and that's why we have all these questions and then look if you
00:15:41
can think it's a conspiracy I don't fault you at all I think you have to look at that with some wideopen eyeballs
00:15:49
so much time passes before their question and I think that's where the conspiracy kind of starts these
00:15:56
individuals are trying to get their story straight they're trying to remember what happened and oh what do
00:16:02
you remember okay you remember that and I remember this okay let's try to get our story straight and by definition
00:16:09
that's a conspiracy now you could make an argument that he never made it into the house but they're still conspiring
00:16:18
to try to get a a collective story to give to law enforcement to give to the media to give to the public well I'll
00:16:26
offer up a little opinion here no and that is remember she is initially charged with vehicular
00:16:37
manslaughter a much less severe punishment for a much less severe charge part of me believes before we get into
00:16:47
some of the other very crazy parts that are that you have to look at and go what
00:16:53
what what's going on here before we get to the what's going on here Parts part of me believes
00:17:01
that the officers the persons that responded to the scene they get to the scene they believe what they're looking
00:17:08
at is just a terrible accident that she accidentally hit him without any malice or without any
00:17:15
intention accidentally hit him killed him it's a horrible tragedy and accident and that's the call we're responding to
00:17:25
therefore that's the charges that came with it and because this was just an accident and and I I'm
00:17:31
not saying me the colonel I'm saying I the responding officer or the investigator makes the Assumption too
00:17:40
quickly that this was just a horrible accident then I tailor my investigation as such where H we we don't need to
00:17:47
press the envelope press the issue or push the envelope here with interviewing everybody in a strict disciplined manner
00:17:56
because you're right like and there there's varying degrees of reporting on this too and I hate to keep saying that
00:18:03
but but it's true unfortunately it's the truth where you you hear some say that oh they were never questioned at all
00:18:10
well that no that doesn't seem to be right because we are at trial now and the prosecutor and the defense are
00:18:18
constantly referencing statements that were given years ago and so you can't say they were
00:18:27
never questioned at all but it's how were they question and like the captain said one thing that seems to be ringing
00:18:33
true again I'm going to lean on what's being said in the courtroom rather than what's being said on a podcast what
00:18:41
seems to be ringing true is that yes they were spoken to yes they were interviewed if you want to call it that
00:18:48
but it would not be in the manner of hey come down to the police department and let's take a written sign sworn
00:18:55
statement right it's a more casual ual interview where you are interviewing people together husband and wife
00:19:03
together husband wife and maybe son together and like the captain said it it seems agreed upon even by the the
00:19:10
persons who are only being accused by the defense or in the media that being maybe the Alberts and um mccab and a few
00:19:22
other people that it sounds agreed upon by them that they that they've openly stated yeah we had kind of a let's call
00:19:30
it a family meeting right we had a we had a sit down where and I'm not I'm not saying every person that we just named
00:19:38
on the who's who but it sounds like a lot of them participated in this you know let's talk about what happened and
00:19:44
maybe that's just as simple as hey here's this person that we Loosely knew that was supposed to come to our house
00:19:51
we would have welcomed both of them in with open arms and this is this tragic event maybe this is a way of grieving or
00:19:58
coping with such a shocking tragedy and maybe there's no ill will there maybe they're
00:20:04
not trying to get their story straight but it's it's we have nothing to go on we don't know what was said during that
00:20:12
family meeting what we do know is that that family meeting should not have taken place before sworn statements were
00:20:20
given to law enforcement and what we do know about the eyewitnesses cuz many of them have said at trial oh well during
00:20:29
this conversation that I had law enforcement didn't even have a notepad out they didn't have a tape recorder
00:20:36
going they decided to collect evidence did you did you see this where they put evidence into red Solo cups yeah so you
00:20:45
are again and you're responding to and once you're on scene and you've you've you understand what's going on I
00:20:53
understand the the the difficulty of the job okay never having done it myself I know a lot of police officers and
00:21:00
detectives and as we said earlier come from a family of law enforcement so we have some understanding on how difficult
00:21:08
and how unfair the public can be to law enforcement on occasion because they are
00:21:13
regularly showing up to a scene where they have no clue what the hell happened before they got there right so we
00:21:21
understand that part of it but guess what now you're on scene and you got a fallen officer in front of you at your
00:21:27
damn feet can we get can we get something other than borrowing knocking on the neighbor
00:21:34
and getting redo cups in a paper bag to put the evidence in yeah it makes their profession look like clowns and that's
00:21:42
that's embarrassing and for all of the good Law Enforcement Officers we know out there they should be appalled they
00:21:50
should be embarrassed as well well and this is and I think if they would have done a thorough
00:21:55
investigation we wouldn't be talking about this case right now and here's the thing you do have the state police that
00:22:03
are going to be involved you have the Canton Police that are going to be involved but at the very center of this
00:22:09
is a Boston police officer who has tragically been killed and died and you also have a Boston
00:22:19
police officer that's the homeowner of the property where he was supposed to be going that night and Boston PD is a good
00:22:28
outfit it that's that's a a pretty good large police department and it's just sad I understand that you know it was
00:22:36
the Massachusetts State Police that that's a fairly good outfit too it's but I was a little I was very surprised to
00:22:44
see how this was handled and and I I know we we're probably hanging on this issue too long but so this is where the
00:22:54
conflict of interest be really plays and ties into it as the defense claims Michael Proctor is a massachusett state
00:23:04
police Trooper he led the investigation into what they refer to as the Karen Reed case Karen Reed's attorneys alleg
00:23:16
that Michael Proctor never fully disclosed that he had a personal relationship with multiple people
00:23:22
involved in this case yeah pathetic and they claim that this includes the Albert
00:23:27
family who lived at the home on the property where John's body was found now what we do know and this is very
00:23:34
interesting here to me we do know this seems to be a confirmation of this information right Michael Proctor is
00:23:42
under internal investigation for an undisclosed potential violation of Department policy Michael Proctor is
00:23:50
under internal investigation for an undisclosed potential violation of Department policy now d d to be
00:23:59
perfectly clear here we do not know what that means right undisclosed is why we do not know what it means however NBC 10
00:24:09
out of Boston has been on the record more than once saying that sources have told them now again this doesn't mean
00:24:17
that it's fact they're just reporting that sources have told us nbc10 Boston that that investigation that internal
00:24:24
investigation is connected to the Karen Reed case Proctor remains on full duty while the
00:24:32
internal investigation unfolds and obviously we're at trial now so they're not there's not a whole lot of actual
00:24:38
investigating of this particular case at this time but if they are looking at him
00:24:46
in relation to this specific investigation you have to wonder if they will uncover anything Internal Affairs
00:24:53
will uncover anything in their investigation that directly impacted the case the case and Proctor's
00:25:01
assessment of what he believed happened or what he says the evidence that they chose to put in red Solo cups and paper
00:25:09
bags that they borrowed from a house next door uh what that evidence told them pathetic it's it's all around
00:25:16
pathetic I think what we're also seeing at trial is look this is just my assessment but a lot of these
00:25:26
individuals that were in that house that day they come off as arrogant they come
00:25:31
off as entitled they come off as privileged and the disrespect the way they're not answering
00:25:41
questions and frankly to me I think a lot of them have been caught in lies the problem becomes if he doesn't if John
00:25:51
o'keith didn't make it into that house then they're not responsible for his death you can also be a [ __ ] liar and
00:26:02
trying to save your ass but not be the one responsible for somebody's death if that makes any damn sense well and I'll
00:26:11
give a big shout out and kudos to CBS and NBC they are covering this incredibly thoroughly right that I've
00:26:20
never SE it it's probably since OJ OJ or or um Casey Anthony yeah the case has been analyzed and and covered
00:26:31
so much and and and I I'm telling you there's all kinds of podcast out there that are just dedicating their whole
00:26:39
platform and if you go to a few different websites and news outlets their whole websites are just dedicated
00:26:45
to their coverage of this story and especially the trial so I want to give a shout out to CBS and NBC who that's
00:26:53
where I went to for most of my research um in this case because there was a a lot of choices and options and with the
00:27:01
bigname broadcasters that's where I chose to go now some quick details here captain that we'll have to sort through
00:27:09
after the break is a lot of the cell phone information so we have court documents that would later reveal that
00:27:19
in the weeks before and even the hours leading up to the night out that there were text messages between Karen Karen
00:27:28
Reed and John O'Keefe as well as voicemails that that is a record of a strained relationship a record of a
00:27:37
relationship in shambles and in fact investigators are saying that around 1:00 a.m. on January 9th this is the
00:27:46
night in question that Karen Reed allegedly left John O'Keefe a voicemail that said you are a effing loser f
00:27:55
yourself and John I effing hate you the best part of spring cleaning takeaway is the post clean Clarity you
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1800 bets off all right tall cans in the air cheers to the people in the back cheers
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to you Colonel yeah good luck sorting this one out I tell you what I'm we are regularly asked to give an opinion after
00:30:34
we review a case I struggle with this one what I don't struggle with Captain is counting my blessings that I wasn't
00:30:41
picked for jury duty for this one well just to be clear like you were saying before there's so many outlets that are
00:30:48
covering every little detail of this case so many emails of people saying hey when are you going to cover this case I
00:30:57
think if we waited till the end of the trial I think at that point there's a there's a judgment whether you agree or
00:31:06
not but this case has so many moving pieces it's very difficult to cover and that's not a cop out but this
00:31:16
case is fascinating and I've been almost every night tuning into long crime or other YouTube channels that are
00:31:26
replaying some of the the that day cross examinations and it it's very fascinating and if you're interested in
00:31:34
this case just dive in just dive in deep because the water is warm and shout out
00:31:40
to the law and crime people we go way back with them they are a fantastic outfit themselves so cell phone
00:31:47
information right it seems to be really at the the center and the centerpiece I believe for why persons have chose what
00:31:56
side that they are on and a lot of people arein to hey look Karen Reed yes guilty as hell did you
00:32:04
see did you hear about that voicemail that she left John where she drops the f bomb you know a dozen times or three or
00:32:11
four times or whatever it is calling him a loser he she hates him and then the flip side of that coin is people saying
00:32:18
well did you see the internet search that Jennifer McCay Brian's sister-in-law did this to me is very
00:32:26
fishy okay so here's the way for those of you that are not familiar with this story I
00:32:32
was going to you know put on your seat belt because it's going to get bumpy but you I hope you brought your raincoat
00:32:38
because there's going to be some [ __ ] yeah some [ __ ] some real [ __ ] it's a
00:32:42
real [ __ ] storm this case now got some [ __ ] [ __ ] on your foot apparently and again two different sides
00:32:49
of the story the defense team Karen Reed's defense team is alleging that there's record that
00:32:58
Jennifer mccab used her phone her personal phone to search internet search H hos long to die in cold around 2:30
00:33:13
approximately let's say 2:30 a.m. yeah it was 2:27 okay so to put this into clear
00:33:20
perspective here what this means is they believe that she was attempting to search how long to die in cold
00:33:28
at 2 roughly 2:30 a.m. this would mean this would be hours before John O'Keefe's body would be found out in the
00:33:37
cold having passed away having been killed and hypothermia being a contributing factor to his death right
00:33:47
so if this is in fact true if this is like Christopher Walkin would say the real deal if this were the real deal
00:33:56
then she is searching this hours before he is found hours before Karen Reed would be aware that he's been killed she
00:34:05
must have some knowledge as to why you know there there has to be some some information that she's privy to or
00:34:13
witnessed why she would be searching that at that time I think they call this guilty information yes but then what is
00:34:23
the prosecution's response to this claim that she never made the search well yes but also doesn't it get
00:34:32
a lot more complicated than that like this is this is where well her claim is that she never made the search she's
00:34:38
saying I only searched that because Karen asked me to yes when we were searching for John but so that happened
00:34:47
at like 6:20 in the morning but your cell phone doesn't just make [ __ ] up your cell phone's not going to just make
00:34:57
make up the fact that you did a search at 227 this is what's clear here prosecutors and the defense team all
00:35:05
agree all these attorneys agree that at some point the morning O'Keefe was killed someone Googled hos long to die
00:35:13
in cold the sides disagree on when the search was made again this was made on Jennifer mob's phone and I apologize I
00:35:21
keep saying her name in two different ways mcab maob prosecutors say that the search happened at 623 a
00:35:28
and 6:24 a.m. after finding J O'Keefe's body yeah with Jennifer stating I only searched that because Karen asked me to
00:35:39
and that she her testimony on stand is that I'm I typed it in incorrectly because of it was cold out my hands were
00:35:47
shaking I was in shock because we found him she has Ms as well and she she attributes all those factors as to why
00:35:54
she miss misspelled and typed did in this way she's saying that occurred after finding the body at the request of
00:36:04
Karen Reed the defense is saying so the defense says a federal forensic expert determined the search was made at 227
00:36:14
a.m. before the police were alerted that O'Keefe's body had been found there are
00:36:20
there's so many arguments about this there are some that say well she searched it at 2:27 a.m. and then
00:36:26
searched it did the same exact search later at 623 to override hoping that it would
00:36:33
confuse the data that she did the search after the body was found but here's where it gets a little more hair but
00:36:41
isn't there other debate about well there was a tab that was opened up on her phone yeah and that that might have
00:36:48
triggered the 227 Tim stamp even though she may not have searched for it until 6:23 a.m. but there's all this weird
00:36:55
[ __ ] okay let's just stay on this search real quick somebody searched that at 227
00:37:02
that's what I believe that's what the computer is telling us computers don't lie but then somebody has the the G the
00:37:11
balls to delete that search that's more incriminating and then on top of that but let let me jump in real quick
00:37:20
because it may not be there there are people that that naturally swipe away or or clear their history clear their
00:37:30
browser delete information from their phone or computer there are those types and they do it for reasons that they're
00:37:39
that are not nefarious I'm not saying that that I'm not saying I'm not saying that that's what occurred here I'm just
00:37:45
presenting this as something that that does occur on a regular basis by people that are not trying to hide their
00:37:53
misdeeds but well let's but let's go a little deeper first of all she says didn't make the search then she said she
00:37:59
didn't delete the search then she says she did she won't even know how to do so where her
00:38:06
husband is like an IT expert don't you think he would know so then I think the question becomes who made the search on
00:38:14
her phone and then I think you have to go a step back because there was supposedly six to seven butt dials that
00:38:22
she claims are butt dials now how does a butt dial work your butt call somebody ring ring ring the fingers
00:38:30
on your butt yeah the F the fingers on your butt called somebody but what happens normally it goes to somebody's
00:38:37
voicemail and if their voicemail is not full then the next day you get some weird message from somebody where
00:38:45
everybody sounds muffled and you sound like you're in somebody's pocket but that's not what happened there was
00:38:51
multiple calls to johon o' Keith's phone and I believe some text too that may have been deleted deleted as well and
00:38:58
then what they did was they deleted them they deleted the call and then when they
00:39:03
were asked about the calls she states well those must have been butt dials and the defense says well the problem with
00:39:09
that is you would have had to notice that you calling him and hung up the phone before it hit his voicemail well
00:39:16
and the prosecution doesn't completely deny all of that right the prosecution I think in on a couple of occasions are
00:39:23
pointing out that well she didn't speak with anybody she left the voicemail right so it this is where it this is
00:39:31
where the water gets too murky for me to come to a conclusion I believe that there is valuable
00:39:40
information in Jon O'Keefe's Phone Karen Reed's phone Jennifer McCabe's phone other people's
00:39:49
phones and devices and and there's been a lot of talk about Apple watches and smart watches I believe that there's
00:39:56
valuable information in them in their that could make this a much clearer picture for us the problem is I got one
00:40:04
side telling me hey we got a whole row of experts that say this information is absolute truth and then you got the
00:40:12
other side that says we got a whole row of people that's saying well it's all it's left for open to interpretation
00:40:18
that this is this is not concrete evidence you can't base anything off of off of these records or off of this data
00:40:26
I will say this and I want to preface this by saying Captain you know me longtime
00:40:31
listeners of the show know me I usually side with law enforcement a boot licker I would say it's closer to 6040 so let's
00:40:39
calm down about the licking of the boots licking boots I usually side with law enforcement I don't believe that
00:40:47
everybody out there is a bad guy but I do believe that people do bad things and and we our show is a is Testament to
00:40:55
that yeah I usually with law enforcement but one thing that I'm getting really effing tired about is that when
00:41:03
it comes to the cell phone and you said this at the start of yesterday's show and you you are so right and I and I
00:41:09
want not not only do I believe that you're right I want this to be right and I want it to be right forever going
00:41:16
forward I believe that these cell phones can be better at solving crimes than even DNA is however what I'm getting
00:41:25
really tired of is it seems to only work for the state or the prosecution right I've seen plenty of cases and this is
00:41:34
one where the all of this information I believe is at the center of it this is the Divide you have the state that goes
00:41:41
in a lot of cases go look his cell phone put him at the scene of the crime at the
00:41:45
time that the person was murdered and he's the only one this person had contact or information or sent text
00:41:51
messages or or hateful voicemails right they they bring up all she called him up
00:41:56
andless the voicemail saying she hates him that's against Karen Reed oh but then we're not supposed to believe any
00:42:02
of this other cell phone information from the other people which one is it right it either works or it doesn't work
00:42:08
you can't have it work for you all the time and that's like like I pointed we point this out when we talk about
00:42:14
polygraph examinations and West Memphis 3 Adon sayet there's so many cases that you can
00:42:20
go through and point to a polygraph examination and one thing that aggravates me to no end is that the
00:42:27
persons that believe that somebody is guilty what what do they bring up they go well he he didn't show up for the
00:42:35
polygraph exam he refused to give a polygraph exam oh he failed the polygraph and then the persons that
00:42:43
think and argue that that same person is innocent of that same crime that they're
00:42:46
charged with will argue the opposite they go oh he took one and he passed it oh you can't trust those things that's
00:42:55
why they don't use them in court well you can't have it work for your side all the time regardless of the result right
00:43:01
so this is a much more exact science than polygraph examinations these cell phones should be
00:43:07
solving more cases than DNA let's allow that to happen what the hell is going on
00:43:13
with oh well the privacy laws put in place do not allow us to share this information with law
00:43:19
enforcement what country what country do you work for where did you build your startup at you build it in this greatest
00:43:26
of Nations well they use little Chinese kids to I was going to say who are you working for the Chinese or the Russians
00:43:32
stop this [ __ ] and work with law enforcement and and if they if they subpoena the records yes if they
00:43:39
subpoena the records give them the records and then give us a person who can can make heads or Tales of it and
00:43:47
explain it to us like we're a group of monkeys living in a garage because there's two of us right here that would
00:43:52
like to know what the hell to think about this stuff and and I'll tell you this I will I will say this straight up
00:43:57
Captain this is why I have a hard time making a determination with this case because there's there we're being told
00:44:04
there's data on somebody's device johon O'Keefe's device that says he went up and down stairs three flights of stairs
00:44:11
yeah that to me says he went into that home after Karen dropped him off something happened to him inside that
00:44:17
house or or he left the house and somehow got a pack of wolves or or a crowd of people got him outside I don't know
00:44:27
but he he left and when Karen left he was fine he was his device was working he was alive and well he was working he
00:44:34
was moving around on his own but I've had very smart devices or at least I'm told they're topof the line right where
00:44:43
I'm like you know you you check your steps yeah you check your steps and it's like wait a second I've clearly walked
00:44:52
more than 800 steps today oh no you had that application open while you were at the gym and none of those steps counted
00:45:00
uh we didn't count those because you had the app open at the time or you were holding it in your hand listening to
00:45:06
your favorite True Crime garage podcast episode and it didn't it didn't sway the
00:45:11
way that it needs to sway to count the steps and I've had the opposite where I look at it and like you have walked over
00:45:19
two and a half miles today guess what Nick has never done in the last 10 years walk two and a half miles in one single
00:45:28
day so that I'm like oh yeah that's right I was on my bike I was on my bike and it recorded it as steps and I've
00:45:36
I've had the same I've I I I will say this not with my current day device and not with any device that I had in
00:45:44
2022 but prior to that I did have devices that recorded me going up a certain number of
00:45:52
flights of stairs that I did not Traverse and I've had other times where devices did not record me going up and
00:46:01
down as many flights of stairs that I did here's what I think I do know though I think the people inside that
00:46:07
party they try to get their story straight you can make an argument that they're innocent or guilty but I think
00:46:15
it's pretty clear that they try to get their story straight and that's why telling the truth is so freaking
00:46:21
important but that's why initial investigation where when you're questioning somebody
00:46:27
maybe you try recording it when you're questioning somebody pull out a goddamn notepad and then some people go well
00:46:34
that's easy for you to say well guess what I show up and do my goddamn job and I got a leg lamp to prove it it's a it's
00:46:41
a lamp you nin can poop it's a major award and I want it are there any parts of the trial that you've viewed or
00:46:49
listened to so far that you think are worth discussing or or that stand out to you as either being a a highlight or a
00:46:58
uh my big issue is again I think these people at the party there's some kind of conspiracy going on to try to get their
00:47:08
stories to match I think it's coming out with the cross-examinations that their stories don't match I think they're
00:47:17
picking and choosing what like you said what data from the phone is telling us we're picking and choosing what is true
00:47:24
and what is false and I just can't believe that a phone would make up 4 hours earlier that you did a
00:47:33
search and if somebody in in the IT world could prove me different than that but I also think these are privileged
00:47:42
upid Liars that's what they are does that make them murderers I don't know I wish I knew I
00:47:51
think you go back and look the cross-examination from the defense I think you should go back if you're
00:47:57
interested in this case and I think Jennifer's cross-examination that was one day was going to go on to the next
00:48:05
day I think that's if you're the jury and you believe that search or you don't believe that she's
00:48:14
telling you the truth and I think she's constantly lying I mean she's constantly
00:48:19
asking the defense can I see my previous statements well if you're telling this truth if you're telling the truth it's
00:48:28
so much easier to remember but when you're telling lies and you're trying not to get tripped up on those lies
00:48:34
you're going to ask to see what you said before mhm and I think this is pathetic
00:48:40
and it's a pathetic investigation and they should be ashamed of themselves they let down John o'keith
00:48:47
they let down Karen they let down every officer or every person those are civilians your job is to serve and prot
00:48:56
prot and you didn't serve or protect anybody in that house the day of the murders and I think there are I think
00:49:05
there's so much it's sick how privileged enti and entitled some of these people come across it's pathetic well they're
00:49:15
they're likely very much on the defensive because they have been harassed by some of the people that
00:49:24
believe that they are guilty of something yeah but they should be be pissed off at law enforcement because if
00:49:28
law enforcement does their job and they start clearing people and they get they get to the bottom of it and actually
00:49:36
establish a legitimate case well and what what I'm saying here is that that's where us as the public that's why it
00:49:44
bothers me when I see people get so up in arms about these different cases about who who they think's guilty and
00:49:50
who who's not guilty we have a system in place to sort that out like let's let's
00:49:56
take a step back let's all take a breath here and rather than harassing the Alberts or Jennifer maob
00:50:06
or even Karen Reed right rather than harassing these people let's let law enforcement do
00:50:15
their job expect law enforcement to do their job and let and expect the system to do its job as well and guess what
00:50:24
when somebody's locked up you can har you can harass them as much as you want after that right if uh but here's here's
00:50:33
the other thing too and I I'm sorry to Circle back to this but I I'm very angry about
00:50:41
this these privacy laws that they they can't step in and help out to clear up these matters instead we're going to
00:50:48
have the state and the defense pay air quote experts to come out and give their opinions and say this is my conclusion
00:50:57
and this is how I arrived at this conclusion with this data this information on these devices or
00:51:03
information that's been deleted from these devices can't we just have if it were to be Google that was used in that
00:51:11
search can't we just get Google to say here here's what happened here's how it happened and this is the information
00:51:18
that proves how and when that happened it' be a unbiased third party because you get a big name and I I I don't know
00:51:26
that it I want to be clear I don't know for certain it's been reported several times that it's been
00:51:31
Google I do not know 100% for myself that it was Google but what I do know is a lot of these big Silicon Valley
00:51:39
companies we've made them billionaires we've made our our public our masses have made them billions and billions of
00:51:47
dollars and I get that there are privacy laws in place I get that us as individuals should have our own privacy
00:51:56
but I also o get that John O'Keefe if this information can help lead us to the truth it should be delivered on a silver
00:52:04
platter and you want to site privacy laws and protections that you've put into order but guess what I'll shout out
00:52:11
a couple of our our lovely our our fantastic sponsors we we love we love you guys we love the listeners we love
00:52:17
the sponsors Simply Safe they make great home security systems better help if you
00:52:23
need someone to talk to give them a call Quint if you need to if you need to fill
00:52:29
up your closet with some good clothing items guess what all those all those companies that would later site privacy
00:52:37
laws they just made a recording of me or made made note of me mentioning all of those Brands and at some point today on
00:52:45
the devices that surround me now as we have speech later today or tomorrow they will present in an ad form to me one of
00:52:55
if not all three of those compan IES because they heard me say it they heard me speak it into existence well don't
00:53:04
cite privacy laws when someone's life hangs in the balance when you choose not to recognize those privacy laws when
00:53:11
you're trying to sell me some Pella Windows well and this is just extra proof that I need to stop talking about
00:53:19
party goats the trial is ongoing I will I will speak to the defense a little bit
00:53:28
of of some of the persons that uh have made statements I do think that their statements have evolved and that's the
00:53:35
word that keeps coming up by the defense when they're questioning Absolut these different individuals we we do need to
00:53:41
point out again there's scheduled to be a hundred Witnesses called and again they're not all people that were there
00:53:48
that night but these could be expert Witnesses medical examiner has not been called as of this recording so there's
00:53:55
going to be information that changes and gets better hopefully better and hopefully more clear as the trial
00:54:02
continues yeah but for the persons again that are being questioned on the stand that I've been able to review so far
00:54:09
leading up to this recording the defense keeps saying well has your your statement has evolved or your your
00:54:17
opinion of that night or recollection of that night has evolved your story has changed and I think that's a fair
00:54:25
statement because like the Captain's pointed out and I do agree these statements seem to be slightly different
00:54:33
than how they were delivered before in the exact details of what took place and when it took place has changed with with
00:54:40
these different people but I also point this out I've noticed the defense attorneys when they're questioning these
00:54:47
people they and this is a very tricky little thing that they do and I think I think it's a trick that they they're
00:54:55
using purposely doing this on purpose where they'll ask a question and then change a word or two and ask that
00:55:02
question again and then they'll change a word or two and then ask the question again and
00:55:06
it I I will defend when Jennifer mccab did point out to Alan Jackson she said he he's like why is this so difficult
00:55:17
for you to answer and she does point out well you keep changing the words to the
00:55:22
same question I'll defend her it because that was that was my take before she even said that in court I thought this
00:55:28
is a little annoying because we know how important words are remember we talked about in part one the reporting of the
00:55:35
conversation between Karen and I believe it was Jennifer where it's been reported
00:55:41
that Karen said if JN and I break up I hope we can still be friends and then the other reports are she said when Jon
00:55:49
and I break up I hope we can still be friends those two statements while only one word different have entirely
00:55:57
different meanings have entirely different meanings so again a 100 people 100 Witnesses should be called this
00:56:04
trial is ongoing a growing concern in this case and a very human statement and reminder this was from CBS News
00:56:15
overlooked in the Uproar some say is the loss of Officer O'Keefe and his family's
00:56:21
grief the larger and louder the protest quote the more it seemed as though J's Legacy was Falling Into Obscurity end
00:56:30
quote so on that note in closing we will reference what the Boston Police Department the statement that they
00:56:39
issued on behalf of the O'Keefe family saying quote John was not only a dedicated police officer he was an
00:56:47
exemplary Guardian son brother uncle and friend and we were so fortunate to have
00:56:53
him as a part of our lives when John's sister passed away and then her husband did as well a short time later JN
00:57:01
welcomed the opportunity to raise his beloved niece and nephew and build a home and a life around their needs
00:57:09
people talk about someone who would give you the shirt off of their back but that
00:57:13
was truly who John was and it is heartbreaking for us to suddenly be talking about him in the past tense we
00:57:21
appreciate the outpouring of support we have received but we ask for your privacy at this time and have nothing
00:57:28
further to say as we mourn this unbearable loss so rest in peace John O'Keefe and we await the outcome of this
00:57:46
[Music] trial want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and
00:57:52
every week we love you we love you we love you for everything True Crime Check out true Crim garage.com while you're
00:58:00
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00:58:06
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