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[Music] [Music] % welcome to Shaker Heights episode 2 the weird kid in school in the early morning hours of
00:01:40
Friday September 14th 1990 16-year-old Lisa prit was stabbed to death in Shaker Heights in an upper
00:01:48
class suburb on the east side of Cleveland her body was discovered behind a mansion owned by the dford
00:01:56
family the murder occurred the day her boyfriend Dan dford was released from a mental institution no murder weapon was
00:02:05
found at the scene within 24 hours the detectives had interviewed the dford family and come up
00:02:12
with few solid leads in the days after the murder friends of Dan dford met up at the home of classmate Katherine
00:02:20
Schultz to discuss the ongoing mystery following this meeting several of Dan's friends went to the police
00:02:28
station with a startling claim a young man named Kevin young had been overheard stating he wanted to kill Lisa because
00:02:36
he was jealous of Dan dford this podcast presents the case as it unfolded for Shaker Heights police
00:02:44
detectives the interviews you are about to hear are taken from actual police reports and recounted by
00:02:51
actors as the story unfolds ask yourself who do you think killed Lisa puit this is detective Richard melany with
00:03:10
the Shaker Heights Police Department statement in interview by one Jonathan Andrew George
00:03:19
Jonathan I Know Dan from band I've known him since about 8th grade we've been friends since then until now I've known
00:03:27
Lisa since I was in 10th Grade and I've known Kevin since I was in ninth grade Dan and Lisa have been going out for a
00:03:32
couple months now Kevin supposedly has liked Lisa for a long time now most girls blow Kevin off because he seems
00:03:40
kind of weird we were at a rabic at Shaker Square me and Shane McGee we were standing by Shane's car talking with
00:03:47
Kevin and we were talking about Dan dford and Kevin young said something like I'd hate to be Dan because he
00:03:54
doesn't get any play and me and Shane McGee both laughed Kevin was like why are you guys laughing and we were both
00:04:00
like because Dan gets a lot of play from girls and Kevin young said well he's not
00:04:06
getting any from Lisa puit and I said yes he is he's sleeping with her and Kevin just freaked he was like that
00:04:14
[ __ ] that [ __ ] I hate him I'm going to kill him I want her dead and then he stormed off and left me in Shane
00:04:22
McGee later that night I was talking to Kevin young again and he was saying that
00:04:27
women were good for nothing except screwing them and throwing them away and how there's really no point in them me
00:04:33
and Shane McGee we were both like Okay Kevin right we stayed at Arabica a little while longer and talked to some
00:04:40
friends there and then me and Shane both left could you describe Kevin young physically and where he lives if you
00:04:47
know he's about 6 feet tall about 160 170 lb blonde blue-eyed listens to heavy metal Metallica and Anthrax he basically
00:04:59
doesn't like like the world doesn't like black Jews Polish people basically a typical Aryan supremacist type person
00:05:07
he's usually a lot of talk he says things about people but then he's friends with them he talks about people
00:05:13
behind their backs it's very hard for Kevin to get a girlfriend because his views on everything are really strange
00:05:19
he'll be infatuated with a person in ninth grade he was infatuated with a girl named Marissa delinsky and she was
00:05:26
going out with a friend of mine named Brett Hurst and we were in Canada and he was threatening that he would commit
00:05:31
suicide unless Marissa broke up with Brett and went out with him Jeff Patty and Hans Bonner are both band directors
00:05:37
at the high school and they were both there and knew about him threatening this and took his sleeping pills from
00:05:42
him that was basically all I remember about that Kevin does not get along with his parents none of us his friends
00:05:50
understand why his parents are great he's a heavy drinker he drinks by himself he likes to get drunk and wander
00:05:57
off by himself he lives across the street from the high school in a white house with a swimming pool in the
00:06:02
backyard don't know the address or the street did you ever see Kevin young act in a violent manner not sure I like
00:06:10
didn't hang around him a lot the only time he came over was at parties I'd say I don't know do you know if Kevin young
00:06:17
abuses any kind of drugs I don't think so I've never used them with him or seen him use them do you think Kevin young
00:06:24
would be capable of killing someone yes why just basically because of how he does talk and he can become very
00:06:32
aggressive I've never seen him get into a fight like with another guy but because of his basic hate for women
00:06:38
because they spurn him because of the conversations that me and my friends have about him the strange things he
00:06:43
says and does did Kevin young ever talk to you about sex and his views on sex he
00:06:50
always wanted to get laid it rarely happened like the only time was with Jackie hail and that was like it he
00:06:58
hates [ __ ] he he truly hates them anything that's not straight he's like no he doesn't like it I have actually
00:07:05
seen him get aggressive he once wanted to beat up a guy who was bisexual but he couldn't find him did he ever State he
00:07:12
wanted to have sex with Lisa puit not that I can remember do you know a male by the name of Ken Workman yes is he a
00:07:21
friend of Kevin Young's yes I think so whenever I go up to Arabica me and Kevin would go outside
00:07:28
to see who was out there and if Tex was out there he would always go over there and say hey hi how you doing what's
00:07:34
going on is Tex a nickname for Ken Workman yes did you discuss with anyone who you thought could be capable of
00:07:43
killing Lisa puit when you heard of her murder yes Kevin young and Dan's father why Dan's father Dan and Dan's
00:07:52
father don't get along at all Dan's father through Dan's friends is known as a very crazy man this is also viewed by
00:07:58
his sister sister Debbie and most of her friends Dan just got out of Cleveland Clinic and the reason that he came down
00:08:04
to us is that one night he was reading a book and Dan's father came in and caught
00:08:08
him reading it and flipped and that was the day before he got sent to the clinic
00:08:13
why would you think that Dan's father would be capable of killing Lisa puit it was as soon as I heard she was dead I
00:08:19
was thinking of who would have done it and I thought Dan wouldn't have done it but Dan's father would have done it but
00:08:25
I Ruled that out last night when I found out that Dan's father sent him outside to find out who was screaming how did
00:08:31
you hear about Dan's father sending Dan outside through Shane McGee then I called Dan's house and his sister told
00:08:38
me the same thing I asked people who knew Dan and why he wasn't sent away and they basically said the same
00:08:44
thing to your knowledge did danford's Father have anything against Lisa puit not as far as I know when did these
00:08:52
threats against Dan dford and Lisa puit take place June of 1990 do you know if Kevin young would
00:08:59
carry any type of weapon I think he had a knife a knife that's it did you ever see him with a knife once or twice yeah
00:09:08
I'd come downstairs and he'd have it out and say look at this and I'd say oh yeah
00:09:14
whatever I think it was a switchblade or a lock knife I guess it was standard black or brown I can't remember is there
00:09:22
anything else that you wish to add to the statement there was a person he talked to uh Pete mannon I think he's 7
00:09:29
or 18 he's a senior at Shaker Pete was the only one who could really stand Kevin they talked a lot and Pete tried
00:09:37
to get Kevin a girlfriend tried to make him not so much a loser tried to get him
00:09:41
to go out this interview with Jonathan George was important to detectives because
00:09:51
George's statement implicates three men as possible suspects for the murder of Lisa
00:09:58
puit while taking the attention of his friend Dan there was another young man who knew
00:10:05
Lisa would be sneaking over to visit Dan late the night that she was killed his name was Ken Workman known simply as Tex
00:10:15
to friends police asked Dan dford a few questions about him that day so on Thursday September 13th 1990
00:10:29
I'll start off with the with the phone calls I had Becca Boatright called once at about 8:30 and I invited her over and
00:10:37
then she told me she was tired and was going to go to sleep so during the conversation she also spoke to a text
00:10:43
Workman and one or both of us maybe mentioned that Lisa might be coming over I also spoke to Chris Jones and invited
00:10:51
him over and he called back and told me he was too tired and was going to go to sleep I don't remember the times on
00:10:57
either one of those calls but both were right before 10 p.m. a Tex Workman came over it was
00:11:05
sometime before 900 p.m. and he and I were sitting outside when Lisa puit came over at about 900 p.m. and left 5 or 10
00:11:13
minutes later while they were both there Tex and I joked about cutting Lisa Pit's
00:11:18
hair to my knowledge however there was no physical contact between Tex and Lisa then I walked Lisa to her car she left
00:11:27
and I went back to Tex Workman I think he was in need of cigarettes I gave him some money and at approximately 10 p.m.
00:11:34
he left on my bicycle for Shaker Square I went inside and came out again probably 11:00 p.m. to find Tex waiting
00:11:42
with a pack of cigarettes and he told me that he wasn't going to sleep over I let
00:11:47
him keep the change for Rapid fair and and gave him some of the cigarettes and I then went inside and watch the
00:11:54
news did you see Tech workmen leave your residence after you gave them the cigarettes and if so which direction did
00:12:01
he go I I saw him turned to exit the backyard via the driveway uh to the best of your knowledge describe what he was
00:12:08
wearing he was wearing either a white pair of tennis shoes or a pair of airw walk Viper High Toops I'm not certain
00:12:16
what else he was wearing have you ever known Ken Workman to take the bus back to his house no but
00:12:24
he definitely he's definitely taken the rapid to my knowledge anyway did you have contact whatsoever with Ken Workman
00:12:31
from the time you were brought to Shaker Heights Police station at approximately
00:12:36
3:00 a.m. on September 14th 1990 until noon on that same date no approximately how far does Ken Workman live from
00:12:48
Shaker Square between one and three blocks but I I can't say for certain uh to your
00:12:55
knowledge what is the relationship between Ken Workman and and Kevin young such as are they close friends or not no
00:13:03
they're they're not close friends but I don't believe they've ever been like hostile towards each other or anything
00:13:08
like that when Ken Workman returned from Shaker Square to give you the cigarettes
00:13:13
were your parents aware that you had returned to your house or did you mention it to them at any
00:13:20
time no they to my knowledge anyway they didn't know and I didn't mention it to them is there anything else that you
00:13:28
wish to ask to this statement well yeah I I I guess I just like to reassure you that I'll I'll tell
00:13:34
you any new information when I remember it but I just really have nothing else to say
00:13:42
[Music] now more friends of Dan dford arrived at the Shaker Heights Police station to
00:13:50
give statements similar to Jonathan georgees that they had overheard Kevin young say he wanted to murder Lisa prit
00:13:59
the police learned that Kevin was due to leave town that Sunday to begin classes
00:14:04
at Ohio State University armed with the statements from multiple teenagers the detective secured a search warrant for
00:14:11
the young family home affidavit for search warrant of young residents Kevin young son of Jay Tober
00:14:23
young Jr does reside on Anway Road Shaker Heights Ohio this warrant states that Kevin young
00:14:32
knew Lisa puit and her boyfriend Daniel driver that in June of 1990 at arabica coffee house at Shaker Square Cleveland
00:14:42
Ohio Kevin young stated in the presence of several Shaker Heights High School students that he desired to kill Lisa pu
00:14:50
and Dan dford that Kevin young was seen at araba Coffee House Cleveland Ohio on the
00:14:57
evening of September member 13th 1990 and learned from Kenny James Workman that Daniel driver was home from medical
00:15:06
treatment that at the time and in the presence of witnesses Kevin young became emotionally distraught crying
00:15:14
uncontrollably and appeared angry intermittently that Kevin young was observed walking in the Shaker Heights
00:15:22
area toward South Woodland Road at approximately 11:00 p.m. that evening that on September 14th 1990 Kevin young
00:15:32
argued with friends about the homicide indicating facts known at this time only to investigative authorities including
00:15:40
preliminary findings from the kyoga County coroner's office that the victim was not raped and further that Kevin
00:15:48
young through reliable information is said to be an unstable individual inordinately jealous of male female
00:15:55
relationships and is known to carry a switchblade or lock knife it is necessary to conduct this search in the
00:16:02
night because this request is made at 11:45 p.m. on September 15th 1990 and that Kevin young is known to be leaving
00:16:11
for Ohio State University on September 16th 1990 and that evidence sought is subject to destruction if not retrieved
00:16:19
at [Music] once while Detectives searched the young family home Kevin young was formally
00:16:31
interviewed by police detectives this interview occurred after midnight that Saturday
00:16:44
night I knew Dan and Lisa from band earlier this year and I got to be friends with Dan's sister later on in
00:16:51
March I got to be friends with Dan that's about the time I got to be friends with Lisa I got to know her I I
00:16:58
wasn't really good friends with her that's how I know them Thursday morning I don't remember much I remember hanging
00:17:04
out at Arabica until about 4:00 p.m. it might have been later than that time really meant nothing to me at the time I
00:17:12
went back around 7:00 p.m. or 8 p.m. I waited until Tex got off work we sat there for a few minutes the two of us
00:17:19
went to the shack he mentioned a potential robot usen party at the dford house I'm almost positive that he
00:17:26
mentioned that Lisa and Chris Jones were going over to the driver's house at4 to
00:17:31
11:00 p.m. we paid our checks left the shack and headed our separate ways I went home I got there a few minutes
00:17:38
after 11:00 I tried to go to bed at around4 to 12 and did not sleep well that night now we're at Friday at 8:30
00:17:48
in the morning my mom woke me up and told me that text was at the door and wanted to talk to me my mom already knew
00:17:53
what happened to Lisa text told me that Lisa had been murdered and raped that night He also mentioned stab wounds I
00:18:00
met up with Tex again slightly before noon at Arabica it was there that he got hysterical he was worried about people
00:18:07
thinking that he did it because he'd left his knife at the dford house also when Tex mentioned the murders he told
00:18:13
me that Lisa was found in the backyard of the dford house Friday around noon Tex and I left for Arabica and headed
00:18:20
for the shack it was there that he was accusing Dan dford of Lisa's murder he was threatening to kill Dan if he found
00:18:28
out that Dan killed Lisa he also asked me to mention to the police if I was questioned where I was with him Thursday
00:18:34
night I told him I would tell the police we left the shack at4 to 11: as happened
00:18:40
he also told me he was worried because he had no alibi he said he left the dri's house at 11:15 p.m. that evening
00:18:47
he told me that the bus ran an hour late or it took an hour caught a bus at 12:15
00:18:52
a.m. and arrived home at 12:30 a.m. Friday afternoon before Debbie got in town text was a wreck he was smoking
00:19:00
like a fiend very scared and like I said accusing Dan dord Deb got in around 1:15
00:19:07
p.m. in the afternoon having caught the rapid going eastbound on the Green Road line for a while she was convinced as
00:19:14
well that her brother had killed his girlfriend Lisa she had also heard rumors that Lisa had been raped prior to
00:19:19
being murdered and thought that her brother Seaman was in Lisa I don't know what else to say after the 5:00 news
00:19:26
came on it was pretty obvious to everyone that Dan had not done it I ran into text again at Arabica briefly I was
00:19:33
on my way to Coventry so I only stayed a little while he was then blaming a stranger that none of us know that was I
00:19:41
think the last time I saw him Friday he mentioned that he had been called in for
00:19:45
questioning at least once as for today I spent just about all day with Ken mitsumoto and had very little contact
00:19:52
with Tex I did see him tonight at the shack with Debbie and a lady named Becky I think her last name is Meyers Tex
00:20:00
mentioned that he'd been called in four times now that brings us to when I was called in for questioning I'm really
00:20:06
worried that teex did this I I hope it's not true but if he did this for me because of a crush I had on Lisa back
00:20:13
around the time of the Germany trip this will be on my conscience forever I have
00:20:18
nothing more to say before giving this statement were you advised of your constitutional
00:20:24
rights and did you fully understand them I was so vised and I understood them are
00:20:30
you at the present time under the influence of any alcohol or drugs I am not the male you relate to as Tex what
00:20:40
is his full name his name is Ken Workman you state that when your mother woke you
00:20:46
up on Friday morning September 14th 1990 at 8:30 a.m. that she had already heard
00:20:54
about the death of Lisa puit how did she know this a friend had called called her
00:20:58
I don't remember who but I could ask her so that I understand you correctly Ken Workman advised you on the morning of
00:21:07
September 14th 1990 to make sure you told the police that you were with him until 10:45 p.m. the previous evening is
00:21:16
that correct that's true did Ken Workman ask you to tell the police any other information relative to him he did not
00:21:25
you stated when you saw Ken Workman at araba at about noon on September 14th 1990 that he was hysterical could you
00:21:35
explain what you mean he was worried that people would think he killed Lisa he mentioned a knife of his that he
00:21:41
thought was in the df's house he was also saying that he was convinced that Dan dford killed Lisa when we went to
00:21:47
the shack at about noon probably earlier he was smoking a lot of cigarettes chain
00:21:52
smoking after a while we both kind of burst into tears Tex told me I was the best friend he had ever had have you
00:21:59
ever known Ken Workman to carry a knife I cannot say for sure but I'm almost positive that he has carried a knife on
00:22:06
occasion when you met Ken Workman at araba later on later on in the evening of Thursday September 13th 1990 Did You
00:22:15
observe him to be riding a bicycle I did not see him with or riding a bicycle that night to the best of my
00:22:23
recollection on the same evening September 13th 1990 you stated he left Arabica and went to the shack with Ken
00:22:31
Workman did he have a bike with him then I did not see a bike so that I understand you correctly when you walked
00:22:39
from Arabica to the shack Ken Workman also walked he walked with me from Arabica to The Shack on September 13th
00:22:47
1990 when you left the shack and walked home which route did you follow Shaker Boulevard to Van Aken north of Arabica
00:22:57
from Van Akin I I took a left at the traffic intersection onto drexmore from drexmore I took Woodbury I took Woodbury
00:23:05
to Anway Road where Anway school is and then I went around the school oval to there did you ever have sexual
00:23:12
intercourse with Lisa puit I did not to your knowledge do you know anyone who did Dan told me that he did I'm
00:23:23
pretty sure that Dan was her first that's the way he described it to me did Dan dford or anyone else invite you or
00:23:31
ask you to come over to the dford house in the late evening hours of September 13th
00:23:37
1990 nobody invited me did Ken Workman tell you what time he got home after he left the driver's house he said 12:30
00:23:47
a.m. how did he say he got home he said he took the bus he also said it didn't come for an hour did he tell you where
00:23:56
he caught the bus and where where it let him off he did not is there anything you
00:24:01
wish to add to your statement feel like crap and I really need some sleep nothing of value was found during
00:24:14
the search of the young family home they had no confession no murder weapon no bloody clothes and Kevin's father
00:24:22
alibied him they were playing video games at the time Lisa was murdered [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] 2023 next the detectiv sat down with texts to see what he had to say about
00:26:59
Kevin young I went home and called Dan and asked him if it would be all right if I
00:27:04
came over he told me to come on over I got some money from my mom and I waited for the rapid and went and got off
00:27:10
Shaker Boulevard and Lee and went to dance house and just talked it was about 15 minutes until his parents came home
00:27:18
they had been shopping I think and I remember I had to helped them carrying groceries they asked me how I was doing
00:27:24
cuz I hadn't seen them in a long time I think Dan was on the phone so I went out
00:27:28
in the back and smoked a cigarette then he came out we was just talking about some dude at the hospital he was at who
00:27:34
was weird then he got a telephone call again and I just sat back outside and he went in to get it then he came back out
00:27:41
and Lisa puit came over and she said I could stay for 15 minutes cuz her dad was waiting for her in the car so Dan
00:27:49
was showing her his haircut and uh asked her if she wanted hers cut and was playing around and then he went around
00:27:56
the corner I don't know what they did Dan came back around and she left I guess we just sat there and he played
00:28:03
his guitar and then he said that his parents were expecting me to leave around 10 p.m. but I could stay if I
00:28:09
wanted to without his parents knowing so he told me to take the bike and go get him a pack of cigarettes so I took his
00:28:17
bike and went up to the gas station at Shaker Square which is right behind arcca then I went over to Rebecca and
00:28:24
sat down there I was talking to Kevin young and Stan rer he just got off work and came over and sat down and Kevin was
00:28:32
all messed up then he was crying about some kid named Manny or something like that because he went over to Iraq he
00:28:40
just kept crying and saying wish Manny was here I wish Manny was here Stan called his dad to come get him maybe
00:28:47
like five or 10 minutes later his dad came to pick him up then Kevin was crying he just kept crying saying
00:28:53
something about Manny and I told him to shut up then we left and I went up Shaker Boulevard and he went the other
00:29:00
way I think it was down south woodland or something right before I got to Dan house I stopped at like a little field
00:29:07
thing and I used the bathroom in the field then I got back on Dan's Bike and went to his house then I got there and I
00:29:15
gave him his cigarettes and he said Chris Jones was coming over and Lisa puit and they were coming over at like
00:29:21
12:30 a.m. and he asked me if I wanted to stay and talk to them I told him no I was just going to go home I gave him his
00:29:29
bikee and he put it in the garage and he went back in and I left I went to the rapid stop and just sat there until it
00:29:36
was around 12: midnight and I called my mom and asked her to call the rapid and see what time they were supposed to come
00:29:42
and then I gave her the phone number to call me back at the pay phone and after I got off the phone with her I sat down
00:29:48
by the rapid tracks and then the rapid came I don't remember how long it was then I got on and the rapid driver said
00:29:55
something like like it was running late and he was sorry I didn't say nothing to
00:30:00
him until I got to Shaker Square I just told him to take it easy and then I went
00:30:04
home and I got home and told my mom that I wasn't staying at Dan's because I didn't feel right about it called Deb
00:30:11
dford at college and we talked about how we missed each other I got off the phone
00:30:15
with her and went to sleep the next day I had to get up early cuz I uh had to go
00:30:19
to school and get my work permit so I got to school I went to Mr V's office and some lady told me he was with some
00:30:27
girl who got murdered parents or something it was the lady who was the secretary for the office she told me
00:30:33
that and I told her I was just going to go to one of my friends houses until he came back and she said go ahead I went
00:30:39
to Dan dordz I seen all the police and I thought maybe he commit suicide or something so I started up the driveway
00:30:46
but halfway up the drive these two policemen stopped and asked me what I was doing and I said I had come to see
00:30:52
Dan and they told me he wasn't home I asked them what was going on and they told me to go watch watch the news the
00:30:58
one policeman asked me my name and where I went to school and what I was doing out of school so then I went back to
00:31:04
school and went to Mr anand's office and asked him if he knew what was going on and then he said a girl was murdered
00:31:11
over there and I asked him the name of who was killed and he didn't say anything I left his office and I started
00:31:17
back to V's office and I asked this girl who was killed and she said Lisa pu it and I
00:31:24
went to Mr V's office and asked Michelle vaton who died and she said Lisa Pro it and
00:31:30
she was crying and I went in and got my work permit from Mr vlah and then I went to
00:31:35
Kevin Young's house to tell him his mom answered the door and she wouldn't let me in cuz she didn't know who I was I
00:31:42
told her it was really important she asked me if it had anything to do with Lisa's death and I told her yeah and
00:31:47
asked her if she told Kevin and she said no I asked her if she wanted me to tell
00:31:52
him and she said yeah she went up and woke Kevin up and and then me and him went downstairs to the pool table I told
00:32:00
him that Lisa had been killed and he was like all right and he said he'd meet at ARCA at
00:32:06
around 4 p.m. and then I went to see if Jeremy Webster was at school so I could talk to
00:32:12
him he wasn't outside the school or anything and then I started walking back and I seen Clark Pope and some other guy
00:32:19
and Clark was going crazy because of Lisa I got sick of hearing him so I walked home I think I went in arcca to
00:32:26
see if anybody was there and there was nobody in there so I left then I went home then I called the police station to
00:32:34
see if Dan was here or if any of his parents were here and somebody let Dan's dad on the phone and I told him Deb was
00:32:42
coming back then officer molan told me to come down and make a statement and I asked him if I could come in around 4M
00:32:49
because I was waiting for Deb to come in I got off the phone with him and I went
00:32:54
to the rapid and just sat there and Kevin came over he got to arcca a lot sooner than 4M then we was sitting there
00:33:01
for a while and we got some coffee at the shack and then we seen Jerry Eisenberg and Ken mitsumoto get off one
00:33:08
of the Rapids so we went outside and Kevin talked to them and I walked away Kevin came back and said they were going
00:33:15
to a bank or something then we walked over to ARCA and I think it was Dave bran again I talked to and he asked me
00:33:24
how I was doing and I said all right and then he asked me something else but I can't remember what it was I left and
00:33:31
went back to the rapid stop and waited for Deb and she finally got off then we went back to my house and then I told
00:33:38
Deb I had to go to the police station and my mom wanted to come with me but I wouldn't let her we both left my house
00:33:44
and went to ARCA and then we got a ride from some guy named Bob to the police station I got to the police station and
00:33:52
that's it before giving this statement you are advised of your constitutional rights did you fully understand them yes
00:34:02
are you presently under the influence of any alcohol or drugs no was your mother
00:34:08
aware that you were planning on spending the night at danford's house yes when did you tell your mother that you're
00:34:16
planning on staying at danford's house when I called Danny he said something about it and I said I wasn't sure do you
00:34:23
know what time these Arrangements were made I don't know it was when I called Dan at his house to see when I could
00:34:29
come over have you stayed at the driver's house before when Debbie was not home not when Deb wasn't home can
00:34:37
you estimate how many nights you stayed at the df's house when Debbie was home a lot the last month before she
00:34:45
went to college I stayed there almost every night were Debbie dford parents aware you were staying there no you
00:34:54
stated that you took Dan's Bike and rode it to to Shaker Square to buy cigarettes
00:34:59
for Dan dford in yourself on Thursday September 13th 1990 at approximately 10 p.m. is that correct yes describe the
00:35:08
bicycle that you rode to Shaker Square it was a blue mountain bike is that a men's or ladies bike it was a men's bike
00:35:17
what brand of cigarettes did you buy Mal BR regular box just one pack after you purchased the cigarettes you went to
00:35:25
Arabica is that correct yes while you're at Arabica how did you secure the bike and
00:35:35
where I didn't I just laid it up by the window at ARCA in the back so I could see it how long approximately did you
00:35:44
talk to Stan Kramer on that evening or how long was he sitting with you maybe like
00:35:52
15 maybe like 10 or 15 minutes did you work at a rabbit at all that night no while at of Raba did you mention to
00:36:01
Kevin young and Stan Kramer that there was going to be a robot tusen party at Dan dford house that evening I didn't
00:36:10
say there was going to be I said there might be cuz that's what Dad said before he went in the hospital he said the day
00:36:17
he got out he was going to have a robo party what did you tell Kevin young and Stan Kramer about who was coming over to
00:36:23
danford's house that evening I don't remember telling them anything what did you know about anything that was going
00:36:30
to happen at dford house that evening all I knew was that Lisa and Chris were coming over have you ever attended a
00:36:37
Robison party at danford's yes how many times did this occur only once what was in your opinion the result
00:36:48
of the people who drank robotussin at this party that is the effect of the robotussin on them and how did it affect
00:36:56
their actions they just went crazy Dan told me that it makes them feel strong and said something about some kind of
00:37:04
trans they go into when they get into this trance whoever they see at the end of this hallway they do whatever they
00:37:11
can to get them out of the hallway they kill if they have to sometimes they just knock the person
00:37:17
out of the hallway that's what he said would you explain what this hallway means he said one day that everybody's
00:37:26
got a hall way and when you take robus and it brings you back to your hallway and it's like if you take it you see a
00:37:33
hallway it's like a mild form of acid have you ever done robotussin and if so what was the effect of it yes I fell
00:37:44
asleep have you ever seen Dan dford under the influence of robertsen the only time I seen him he
00:37:51
was just coming down from it I never seen him when he was in the middle of not coming down from it what was his
00:37:57
conditions at that time and how did he act he just sits there and stared like he was asleep but had his eyes open when
00:38:07
was this robot tusin party and who was all there it was after I got out of rehab and before he went into the psych
00:38:14
ward Rebecca Boatright Andrea Conrad Jim Hannah me Dan and Deb was there Dan messenger was there too that's everybody
00:38:24
to the best of your knowledge did Dan D have a robosen party last Thursday night
00:38:31
I don't think he did on Thursday evening September 13th 1990 after you brought after you bought the pack of cigarettes
00:38:39
and went to Arabica did you leave araba with anyone and go over to the shack no I left with Kevin and I went
00:38:49
down to Shaker Boulevard and he went down South Woodland when you left arabika to return
00:38:54
to the dford house with the cigarettes which route did you take I went down Shaker Boulevard to Lee and then down
00:39:03
Lee prior to read in the dford house you stated you stopped in a vacant lot a few
00:39:09
doors from the dford house is is that correct yes was that to urinate yes approximately how far into the lot
00:39:21
did you go I put Dan's Bike down where the entrance is and I walked a couple steps
00:39:28
in did you take the bike into the lot and if so how far I just took the bike to like the edge of the lot where it was
00:39:35
in the grassy area like a couple feet after you finish urinating and returned to the dford house how did you make him
00:39:43
aware that you had returned I was throwing rocks at his bedroom window did he indicate to you that he
00:39:51
had heard you throwing the rocks at his window no he never said did he come outside to meet you yes I was standing
00:40:01
over by the garage and he came out and told me to go around back and then he came out the back with the door with his
00:40:07
dog and I told him I wasn't going to stay what did you do with the bike just gave it to him and he put it in the
00:40:16
garage did you physically see Dan dford put his bike in the garage yes was the garage open at the time or did he have
00:40:26
to open the door the garage was part way up it wasn't all the way up when you left
00:40:32
dford house and walked to the rapid what route did you take Lee to Shaker Boulevard did you stay on the sidewalk
00:40:41
on the west side of Lee Road all the way to Shaker Boulevard or did you exit the
00:40:47
sidewalk at any point no when you arrived at the Rapid station at Shaker and Lee was it was anyone else there did
00:40:58
you encounter anyone that you knew while walking from the driver's house to the rapid no when you finally got on the
00:41:06
rapid was there anyone else on the rapid no describe the rapid driver that you had a conversation with big black guy
00:41:16
with a beard where did you exit the rapid Shaker Square right by The Shack on your way walking from the rapid stop
00:41:27
to your apartment building did you see anyone that that you knew no when you arrived home who was there my mom and
00:41:37
her fiance boyfriend Rob Cornell did you have a conversation with them I just told my mom I didn't want to stay at
00:41:46
dance tonight approximately what time did you call Debbie dford from your apartment probably around 12:30 a.m. Did
00:41:54
you dial her direct at a residence at Ohio University yes when you called did she
00:42:02
answer the phone directly or did someone else pick it up first one of her friends
00:42:08
picked it up first did you know her name no how long did you talk to Debbie dford
00:42:15
about 30 minutes after that you went to sleep yes did you leave your apartment at any time between the time you spoke
00:42:23
to Debbie dord on the morning of September 14th 1990 no on September 14th 1990 when you first learned of the death
00:42:32
of Lisa puit did you hear or did somebody tell you how she was murdered somebody had told me she was hit with
00:42:40
something did anyone tell you that she had been stabbed no did anybody tell you that she had been raped no I heard that
00:42:50
on the news what time did you hear that on the news at noon when you went to Kevin Young's house on the morning of
00:42:58
September 14th 1990 approximately what time did you get there probably like 9 or 9:30 a.m. something like that at that
00:43:08
time when you advis Kevin young of the death of Lisa puit did you tell him that she had been stabbed and raped no are
00:43:17
you absolutely sure of that yes during the same conversation with Kevin young at approximately 9 or 9:30 a.m. did you
00:43:29
tell Kevin that you thought Dan dford had done it yes why did he say that because on the news they said they had
00:43:37
found her in his backyard and she was supposed to come over and see him so what made you think that even though you
00:43:44
heard where she was found that D drier would be capable of or want to murder Lisa puit I just thought if he did Robo
00:43:53
that night that he might have I don't know do you know for a fact and did you see
00:44:00
Dan dord consume any robotussin on the evening of September 13th 1990 or of the early morning hours of
00:44:08
September 14th 1990 no did you make the statement to Kevin young that you were afraid that if
00:44:16
Dan dord did it he might have used a knife of yours that was left at the dford house yes what kind of knife is
00:44:26
this it's a butterfly I left it in Deb's room and she told me that she took it with her when did she tell you this I
00:44:34
asked her what happened to it as soon as she came home and she said she took it to college with her did you tell Kevin
00:44:39
young to tell the police that you were with him until 10:45 p.m. the previous evening yes I told him that while I was
00:44:48
at the shack why so he wouldn't forget to tell you guys that I was with him so he wouldn't get in trouble and I
00:44:55
wouldn't get in trouble did you make a statement to Kevin young that on the evening of September 13th
00:45:01
1990 that Dan dord told Lisa pu it that he wanted to cut her hair and he wanted you to hold her down while he did it he
00:45:09
was just playing around when he said it did he make that statement yeah did he have a pair of scissors in his hands
00:45:17
when he made that statement No he had Clippers in his hand did you ever attempt or have sexual
00:45:24
intercourse with a it no on Saturday September 15th 1990 in the evening hours were you at the dford
00:45:36
home yes I think it was from maybe about 11: until 12:30 a.m. did anything happen
00:45:43
between the times at the dford house that got you angry or made you lose your temper yes Deb's dad was just getting on
00:45:53
my nerves and me and Deb left the house he was nitpicking at Deb and it was just
00:45:58
kind of getting on my nerves on Friday night Deb seene kind of like a flashlight in the bushes and I got
00:46:06
pissed off and went down to the street to see what it was but I didn't see anything since the murder of Lisa puit
00:46:13
have you threatened to kill anyone yes who when I thought it was Dan and I went down the street on Friday night I was
00:46:21
going to do the same thing to them as whoever did that to Lisa from the time you heard about Lisa pu's death until
00:46:28
right now have you had any contact with Lisa's parents I had some contact with some lady that was there with Lisa's mom
00:46:35
and I told her if Lisa had any Diaries or any journals or anything to turn them into the police because they might have
00:46:41
some information what did she say she asked me my name and said okay did this woman tell you that Lisa did in
00:46:50
fact have a diary no how would you describe your relationship with Kevin young we're friends until he like starts
00:46:59
going nuts would you consider him to be your best friend sometimes would you relate to me what you told me previously
00:47:08
about the information you had on David Branan David told me that he was on the street that night and he was walking and
00:47:17
a cop asked him what he was doing on the street and he said nothing and that he walked a girl home and the cop took his
00:47:24
name and everything then told Deb that he had his knife on him that night and last night he showed it to us me and Deb
00:47:33
Deb asked him if he still had his knife and he said yeah pulled it out of his pocket describe this knife for me it's
00:47:39
just had brass knuckles and the knife pops out of the side approximately how long is this knife about two and a half
00:47:49
three inches long just the blade how long is the blade on your butterfly knife that you described about six in
00:47:56
did you ever have any kind of relationship with Lisa puit or did you want to no to both questions when you
00:48:05
boarded the rapid at Shaker in Lee that night shortly after midnight on September 14th 1990 do you remember what
00:48:13
the sign said on the rapid the sign said Shaker Square the butterfly knife that you described as
00:48:21
yours where is it now it's in Athens Ohio it's been there since the 6th of September what kind of handle does it
00:48:31
have metal it's got holes drilled in the handle to your knowledge why would Debbie dford take your knife to college
00:48:38
with her cuz I gave it to her so wouldn't cause me no trouble what kind of trouble just by carrying it because
00:48:46
I'm on probation for truancy and running away and stuff prior to getting on the rapid shortly after midnight on the 14th
00:48:54
of September 199 90 did you see the same rapid driver before and if so where going the opposite way while I was
00:49:02
sitting on the tracks waiting to go to Shaker Square he passed me up going eastbound and then came back Westbound
00:49:08
and picked me up during the day Friday September 14th 1990 did you have any contact with any school teacher
00:49:16
counselor or teachers other than getting your work permit from Mr Val Mr anandale
00:49:24
I think I called him earlier day to see if there was anything else going on I think I called him once and Deb called
00:49:31
him once is there anything else that you wish to add to your statement No but I just remember Dave B tried to sell me a
00:49:39
stolen gun about two weeks ago by this time Shaker Heights detectives must have known that someone
00:49:49
was lying to them everyone was pointing fingers at everyone else everyone who knew that Lisa puit
00:49:57
was going to be at danford's the night she was murdered seemed to have an alibi as Loose as aliis could be so who was
00:50:05
lying Dan dford Tex or was it Kevin young like Dan's friends wanted the police to
00:50:14
believe just when it couldn't get any more complicated in walk's 18-year-old Stanley
00:50:23
Kramer Stan could you date starting from Thursday September 13th 1990 the approximate time you went to work at
00:50:31
Arabica that evening and relate to me as best as you can recall the events of the
00:50:36
evening which relate to you of who you may have seen who you may have talked to and anything that you can remember about
00:50:45
that evening okay Scoops closes about 10: and after we closed I usually do the mopping at about 10:15 p.m. when I was
00:50:54
mopping I I noticed Kevin young was sitting at a table right by Scoops he was emotionally depressed it looked like
00:51:01
he was crying and singing songs I know some of the songs that he was singing I've heard him when I was younger I
00:51:08
continued mopping for about 5 to 10 more minutes and I saw Kenny Workman come in
00:51:13
and sit with Kevin so I wasn't as worried as I was when I saw Kevin from the first time about what was wrong I
00:51:21
pretty much finished up at about I'd say about 10:30 p.m. and that's when I clocked out and I decided to join Kevin
00:51:29
and Kenny at the table the conversation up was Kevin was upset because a friend of his I don't remember the name at all
00:51:36
was in a rock I don't know if he was living or dead but Kevin was like hallucinating wanting him to walk
00:51:43
through the araba door so Kevin could give him a hug say hello how have you been and so forth I called my dad at
00:51:51
about roughly 10: p.m. I went to get a pack of cigarettes for at about 10:35 p.m. and when I got back I sat down and
00:51:59
smoked one cigarette which takes me roughly 5 minutes I got up and called my dad roughly 10:40 p.m. to come and give
00:52:07
me a ride home I went back to the table and the same conversation was up at the table that was when I left I have no
00:52:15
awareness of what they were talking about at all my dad got to the back of Arabica at about 10:45 p.m. which is
00:52:22
when I say goodbye to Kevin and Kenny yeah Kevin and Kenny um I went outside to get into the car my dad asked me to
00:52:31
go in and get him a Coke came back in Kevin and Kenny were walking out the front door to go home which from my
00:52:37
knowledge is where they were going um um Kenny was riding Dan dford bike which he
00:52:44
had to return that evening and when me and my father pulled out of the driveway I tried to get him the coke I saw Kevin
00:52:51
young walking up a street I think it was drexmore alone and it looked like he was
00:52:56
headed home what did you do after that I had a lot of studying to do that evening
00:53:01
and I went home I watched a little bit of the news just to get caught up on current events like I usually do I went
00:53:07
upstairs to do my homework it was a rough day and I had a little bit of homework to do so I did have a little
00:53:12
bit to drink a few beers after I finished my homework I pretty much crashed I went to sleep got ready for
00:53:18
school the next day when you were at a Raba with text Workman and Kevin Young on Thursday night did you hear any
00:53:25
conversation about a possible party at danford's that night no I did not were you aware from the conversation between
00:53:32
Tex and Kevin young that Dan dford was back in town um we all knew from that day Kenny was in school that day I'm
00:53:40
almost positive he was that was the day that Kenny did drop out but I do know for a fact that we all knew that Dan was
00:53:46
back in town when did you first learn that Dan dford was back in town it was roughly in
00:53:52
between the hour of 12:00 noon and 1:00 p.m. Thursday noon go ahead and explain the same thing
00:53:59
you said before okay um I was uh I don't have a sixth seventh eth period so Alexi
00:54:06
ratcheson a friend of mine that graduated in ' 89 was up at the school he's usually up there just driving
00:54:13
around I asked him if he would drive me up to the gas station to pick up a pack of smokes he did so and when I came back
00:54:20
we usually park right outside the science wing of the school I looked out the window and I saw what I thought was
00:54:25
Danny dford which I didn't know at first and I called his name and it was Dany and he walked over to the car and we we
00:54:34
just reunited started to talk and I saw him throughout the rest of the afternoon
00:54:38
until about 400 p.m. which I had to go home to go to work who's the friend of yours and what was his name Alexi
00:54:46
ratcheson Alexi Alexi that night out of Raba when you left with your dad you state you saw Kevin young walking up
00:54:54
Drex more towards Shaker Heights is that correct yes did you see Tex Warman leave
00:55:01
um I did not see him leave I knew where his bike was parked it was parked right outside the window of where we were
00:55:07
sitting and the bike was gone so I figured they must have left and any time were you aware that Kevin and Tech
00:55:14
workmen had left araba and walked over to a place called the shack I have no awareness of it do you
00:55:21
know where the shack is yes where where is that it's the rapid transits restaurant right on Shaker Boulevard in
00:55:29
Shaker Square what hours did you work at AR rabaca on Thursday night from my knowledge it was 5:00 p.m. to close
00:55:37
which is at 10: p.m. which I stated earlier how well do you know Kevin young I know him pretty well I used to
00:55:45
play Little League baseball with him when we were both younger and we had missed each other for a while after the
00:55:51
team ended that summer he went back to school and I went back to school I was still in the middle school at the time
00:55:58
when I got up to uh I think the 8th grade I when I started going up to the high school to see other friends of mine
00:56:07
I met back up with Kevin and we started talking and just getting caught back up so I've known him roughly well since
00:56:14
about the 8th grade which is since I'm a senior would be 1995 I mean 1985 that's what I
00:56:23
figure Des Des for me Kevin young as you know him what what do you know about him
00:56:29
he had a normal Teenage life did what most teenagers do drink go to parties on the weekend from what I remember he did
00:56:36
quite well in school he wasn't one of the types to slack off that much with the school workor cuz he was really
00:56:41
concerned with his life when he got out of school he just graduated in the year of 1990 from the Shaker Heights High
00:56:47
School and he's a part of my group at Shaker Square araba lately um what I've been hearing
00:56:55
what me and Kevin been doing which was maybe about once or twice is drinking which seems like Kevin is having
00:57:01
somewhat of an alcoholic problem which somewhat scares me with Kevin because I know Kevin quite well and he was really
00:57:08
interested in baseball and he started smoking and drinking which surprised me that Kevin would do something like that
00:57:13
that heavily could you describe for me what you know in regards to any relationship between Kevin young and
00:57:20
Lisa puit okay I have known that for the last two years Kevin has had a crush I don't know if you want to say crush on
00:57:28
Lisa uh he really was not to distract you go ahead and describe the relationship between Kevin and
00:57:36
Lisa um last two years Kevin has been in marching band with Lisa and they were pretty close and sming band is pretty
00:57:43
much a big family um to my knowledge Kevin has had a crush on Lisa for the last two years and when his knowledge
00:57:50
came about Dan dford going out with Lisa he was very angry distracted about Dan going out with Lisa not him did he tell
00:57:59
you that or is that just from behavior that you observe I have heard that from Danny dford Kenny Workman and once from
00:58:06
Kevin young could you identify the members and kids you are referring to when you say your group yes um in the
00:58:14
group are Kenny Workman Kevin young Ken mamoto Jerry Eisenberg Jud ozgood Gina massina if that's her last name um
00:58:25
another one I'm just thinking of now is John Hannan and Alexi breson at least until he started working at Arab and
00:58:32
there are few more that just don't go to Shaker Heights High School so they're usually not there all the time how well
00:58:38
do you know Kenny Workman since Kenny's come to Shaker Heights High School as a freshman which
00:58:44
was last year I've known him quite well we're both pretty much the same we're crazy we're both crazy well in the means
00:58:51
of doing the usual things that we would do in the Arabica Group which which is drink and every once in a while just
00:58:56
party go down to Coventry look for fights um we were crazy one evening and we became Blood Brothers so I pretty
00:59:04
much say that me and Kenny Workman or to me Tex are darn close describe Tex what
00:59:10
what kind of a person he is um Tex when he came up to the high school he looked like he wasn't as enthusiastic as a
00:59:18
normal teen is for high school he was like different he really did not want to be there it's like high school wasn't
00:59:24
for him um I mean that I'm used to it with our group but people normally don't like high school that had to be there
00:59:32
was a literal dislike he stayed in school he didn't go most of the time we did a lot of cutting at the end of
00:59:39
second semester of last year I dropped out of school which I really stopped going to the high school it was maybe
00:59:47
about I dropped out of the Shaker Heights High School High School wasn't for me I was a junior at the time I
00:59:56
don't know I just didn't like school I came back up every once in a while until I got a job at Universal printing which
01:00:02
my dad owns and was coming up to the school and when Tex or any of the group was cutting I'd be joining them which
01:00:09
most of the time I did see Kenny Workman after the last year this summer I was on
01:00:14
vacation most of the summer so I didn't really see him that much him and Debbie dford had been together which has been a
01:00:21
weird relationship they've broken up I think about three times times and now they're engaged to get married which
01:00:27
really confuses me I mean I'm glad that they are but I don't see how both parties are really wanting to do that
01:00:33
but this year I went back to school I enrolled again for some reason they put me up as a senior and I'm happy about
01:00:40
that Kenny was clicked in as freshman at the Shaker Heights High School he failed
01:00:45
last year we were doing the same thing pretty much at the beginning of this year um we were both caught smoking
01:00:51
outside the school which is in the rule book it illegal and we were both suspended for 3 days which my parents
01:00:57
didn't know about so hopefully they won't hear from this Kenny after being suspended he went into Richard blah one
01:01:05
of the he's assistant principal and was talking to him and he asked if he would tell that Mr vlah would tell Kenny's mom
01:01:13
that he really does not want to be in school cuz Kenny's mom is one of those kinds of moms that don't really want to
01:01:19
listen to the sun they just think it's coming out of their mouth because they're sick of school but after Richard
01:01:25
VW Mr VW I mean talked to Kenny's mom they got the paper signed and Kenny dropped out of school after that a big
01:01:32
change came in Kenny he got a full-time job he started dressing nice he was like
01:01:36
really getting his life back in order but he didn't know what he was going to do we didn't know if he was going to
01:01:43
become a druggie to just a regular bomb and the farthest away was actually get a
01:01:48
full-time job and actually look good which he is now that's pretty much all the knowledge I know up to Lisa's death
01:01:55
could you describe what you know about robatas and cough syrup in terms of how it fits in with your group of friends
01:02:02
the only people I know that have taken robot usin to get a high are Kenny Workman Danny dford I think I'm almost
01:02:10
positive that Dany and Kenny were the two that found that it did something to you um those are the only two people I'm
01:02:17
really positively sure about trying it to the best of your knowledge how many times have either Danny or Kenny
01:02:24
tried robotussin well me for one have known him to walk around when he has problems when he doesn't want to go home
01:02:31
he just walks around a lot just to get stuff off his chest he just he doesn't want to really go home at his house his
01:02:39
mom is the caring kind and she'll ask what's wrong he doesn't really want to tell anyone about it except someone from
01:02:44
the group but if we're not there for him or if there's something else up or if we're having a phone conversation he
01:02:50
just won't bring it up with us I have known him to walk around a few times by himself
01:02:55
have you ever had any knowledge of him sneaking out of his house without his parents knowing
01:03:00
it I know he is 18 and if his rules are the same as mine he doesn't really have to well since he graduated I don't think
01:03:08
he has to worry about sneaking out I don't think he has a curfew on the night of September 13th
01:03:14
1990 when you returned home from work from Arabica did you leave your house after you got home for any reason no I
01:03:22
did not were your parents awake when you retired for the evening on September 13th 1990 no they roughly went to bed at
01:03:31
about 11:30 p.m. and I was still up studying was anybody else in your household up at the time no when you
01:03:38
said you were studying and had a few beers to drink that night do you have an idea how many beers you had roughly six
01:03:45
to eight do you or do any of your friends that we have mentioned so far or maybe some of them we haven't regularly
01:03:54
or not regularly carry any typee of weapon from my knowledge Tex had a butterfly which Debbie drer took to
01:04:01
college with her when she left about a week ago she took it to College because Tex really had no need for it um Ken
01:04:08
mamoto has a switchblade would any of this be used against you know one of friends no no okay cuz I have one myself
01:04:17
which I lost it was a butterfly knife I showed it to someone and like walked over to him around the car and I came
01:04:24
back back and forgot to retrieve it so I haven't seen it for roughly 2 to 3 weeks
01:04:28
so and that's pretty much it out of the group do you know who has your butterfly no idea at all from my
01:04:36
knowledge it could be on someone's dresser to someone actually giving it back to me and me putting it in my room
01:04:41
without me knowing where I put it do you have any direct knowledge or have you ever heard of Lisa puit sneaking out of
01:04:48
her house to go see Dan dford or anybody else no I know of no past or I don't even know why she did it this evening
01:04:59
Lisa is not the kind of girl that would sneak out she has a foreign exchange student at her house that's the second
01:05:05
reason why I wouldn't think that she would sneak out unless it was very important to see Dan that evening so
01:05:10
that I understand you correctly you didn't really know Lisa puit well is that correct not as well as other people
01:05:17
you wouldn't have any idea who Lisa puit might confide in as far as a female friend
01:05:24
not off the top of my head not any of her really close friends did you ever meet her parents no I was planning on
01:05:31
going over there this weekend but there were too many people over there and I didn't go over there I'd rather it be a
01:05:36
few and round of people over there do you have any knowledge of the feelings or either Mr dford or miss dford on how
01:05:45
they felt about Dan going out with Lisa puit that they had both approved of it but I'm really wondering about Mr dford
01:05:52
from my knowledge he supposedly had a crush on Lisa I don't know how long it's been but he's really supposedly liked
01:05:58
her I mean it's a rumor it's not straight facts I didn't hear it from Dan or Dan's father but he has had a crush
01:06:06
on her and she has been going over from what I know she has been going over to the Dyer's house to see if Dan's home
01:06:13
yet hear of any messages from Dan as where Dan was he can't write out to people of the family from I mean if
01:06:21
friend of mine was in there and they cannot right accept a family members can you tell me who you heard this from
01:06:28
about Mr dford having a crush on Lisa I'm not sure the girl's first name but hiy Warren who just heard it from Abby
01:06:37
Wilson mcferson she is a senior at the high school and she is in the yearbook hie mcferson
01:06:44
Abby Abby is this a rumor that you heard prior to Lisa's death or after her death after I only heard it this
01:06:54
afternoon on my way to the funeral from hiy and she did not want me to repeat it
01:06:58
to anyone for reasons of she didn't want it to slip out which I have no idea why
01:07:03
because I know I'd heard on behalf of the other kids at Shaker we want whoever did this behind
01:07:10
bars is there anything else you can think of that you've heard thought saw or otherwise in the last few days that
01:07:18
might be a value or interest to us in trying to figure out what happened to Lisa puit thought of what could have
01:07:23
happened in my mind from hearing the knowledge of a possible linking Lisa Dan's father and Dan and Dan's father
01:07:31
were supposedly out the evening Lisa's incident happened they were both in the same room and they both heard a scream
01:07:39
this is from what I know for a fact or at least from the papers Dan's father told Dan to go out and see what happened
01:07:45
if he can see anything at all Dan came back didn't hear or see anything um and you pretty much know the whole thing
01:07:53
after after that he went back after the police were called they went out they didn't see anything Dan went back out
01:08:00
looked for his bike looked around found Lisa's bike came back out to the police and that's when the body was found I
01:08:07
don't know if Dan's father and him were still in the same room that Dan's father
01:08:11
might have told Dan that look you're going to be looked at as to being a suspect in this because Lisa was heading
01:08:18
over here I'll say that you were me and you were in the same room talking or whatever and that's when we heard it
01:08:25
from what I can think I don't know if it could possibly happen but that might have never happened Dan's father might
01:08:33
have heard Dan talking on the phone to Lisa and met her outside before she actually got to the house that's really
01:08:38
off the top of my head that possibly could have happened which the skid marks on the sidewalk could explain the corner
01:08:45
ones as maybe his father maybe walking around the corner or surprising her and then skitting to a halt saying oh hello
01:08:51
and then walking towards the house Mr dord possibly thinking about it or riding a bike still turning around again
01:09:00
abruptly and having to slam on the brakes again to describe the other ones on leer Road I heard there were two skid
01:09:07
marks one on South Woodland and one on Lee is that true whatever I I could picture Mr dford doing something like
01:09:15
that I don't want to say it because I like Mrs dford rumors from Debbie dford and Danny dford they consider their
01:09:23
father a Hitler which really having the full meaning of why they call him this or why the nickname came up but he was
01:09:29
like strict he was one of the stricter parents around the neighborhood with the kids were you aware or have you heard
01:09:39
halisa was supposed to meet Dan that evening or how she was supposed to let him know she was there the only way I
01:09:46
could figure is the way we always do it is when girlfriends sneak out or boyfriend sneak out the parents are up
01:09:52
in bed the one is waiting by his window to in the family room they have a TV room which looks out there's a window
01:09:59
along the side there's a fence because you're aware of that from looking around she could have easily parked her bike
01:10:05
right there and knocked on the window do anything like that I mean through those
01:10:10
windows I know that you can't really hear anything if the TV's playing because I've been in there waiting for
01:10:15
Dan this weekend when I was going over to visit him to see what he was doing I couldn't hear the cars when the TV was
01:10:22
playing if that can be of any help to you guys I just thought about [Music] that
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