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[Music] thank you [Applause] foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and while you're at work doing nine
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to five This Guy's in the garage cold kicking it live he is the captain and it's enough to drive me crazy if I let
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it it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
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telling a friend thanks for telling your mother [Music] tonight we are drinking bobber lager by
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the Brilliant Minds over at logboat Brewing Company in beautiful Columbia Missouri garage grade let's go four and
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a quarter bottle caps at a five bobber is an unfiltered lager brewed with inspiration from pale German loggers and
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the Noble Hops provide a little bitterness and my favorite part bobber has a crisp clean finish and this cup of
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inspiration was brought to us by These Fine people first up we have we have princess Jenny from the FB and the LI
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I'm not sure what the FB is but Li has got to be Long Island so there you go next up a big big thank you to Candace
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and Joel and Little Rock Arkansas Candace and Joel say rock your jib well they're kind of getting aggressive with
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the jib next we have Shannon up in beautiful Minneapolis Minnesota we got Peter in hixton Wisconsin
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remember we said according to the USA Today Wisconsin has several of the drunkest cities in the U.S of a so of
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course they get my love and respect so a tip of the cap to you my friend Peter and Hickston well we're coming after you
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Wisconsin parts are known raise your glasses unite speaking of Parts Unknown we have
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Dolores yeah well maybe Dolores you can start drinking a little more pull your weight around here next we have Jill
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who's got the cupcake Blues in Omaha and last but not least we have Julie who says cheers from Columbus wait for it
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Captain wait for it it's Columbus Georgia our sister city ah get out of here with that nonsense oh I oh we want
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enough of the business everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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foreign they told me that I was being arrested for a homicide I mean I knew I had never hurt anyone so
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I wasn't really too worried about it I believe you testified on Direct you thought Chuck was an odd man
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yes yeah you think that's funny I think he's an odd man yes you think that's funny it's not funny
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okay I just thought you were smiling I thought you thought it was funny no it's not a funny part well I mean it this is
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America if you want to laugh you can no it's not alive I never thought I'd be arrested for a crime I didn't commit
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would you would you believe you'd be arrested for a crime you didn't come in I didn't commit one neither did I
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[Music] did I all right part two of the Ryan Ferguson case yeah well there you go
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Captain you get to hear a few Snippets and little pieces of the trial itself I tell you I tell you what I found parts
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of this trial to be incredibly fascinating right there in that clip you are hearing the prosecutor this is Kevin
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crane with some back and forth while Ryan Ferguson is on the stand and that's that's Kevin's kind of loud booming
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voice that he has that's perfect for a courtroom setting kind of really trying to get under the skin of Ryan Ferguson
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kind of picking on him a bit there and I'll tell you what the the best way I could describe Uh Kevin crane the
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prosecutor is arrogant yeah but you know the thing about him that that I found strange was that he he almost appears to
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be like an actor portraying a prosecutor in a movie or a TV show like that the way he speaks that when he chooses to to
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raise his voice and and the way he kind of gestures at things and struts around the courtroom you're right he's he's
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very arrogant arrogant but I get the I get the it's like I'm looking at an actor playing a role not a real life
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person yeah he's a douchebag playing an [ __ ] so what ends up happening here is that we have the police and the
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prosecution they end up offering Chuck Erickson a plea deal in exchange for his testimony against Ferguson at Ryan's
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trial the trial doesn't take place until 2005. now along with Chuck Erickson's testimony we also have Jerry Trump
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remember he's the janitor working at the Tribune that night now he States and he
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testifies at trial that he saw Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson at the scene he says that those are the two men that
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he said jumped up from behind Kent's vehicle when he called out into the parking lot that night now how does how
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does Jerry Trump arrive at this situation because he wasn't able to identify them early on in
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the investigation right and like you stated you know detectives said this guy's not a credible eyewitness yes and
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so the thing here is what what Jerry Trump says is that while he was in jail on unrelated charges his wife had sent
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him a news article about the crime and he claims that that on that newspaper he saw photos of Chuck Erickson as well as
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Ryan Ferguson and immediately recognized them as being the two men that he had saw standing by the vehicle that evening
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now so on the witness stand we have this other weird situation where we have Chuck Erickson who was unable to give a
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detailed description of the crime or the murder during the the confession quote-unquote confession portion of the
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questioning and interrogating uh however once he gets on the stand we see a very
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different Chuck Erickson we see a guy that is he's able to give an extremely detailed description of the events of
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that night as well studied yeah and as well as a extreme extremely detailed description of Ryan Ferguson strangling
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Kent heitholt Chucky might have been a you know a drug user but he you know he has a high level intelligence so he also
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liked to just he would just seem like he would like to argue like these intellectual battles with the lawyers
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one thing I found strange though when they show um Chuck Erickson walking being escorted
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in to the courtroom did you see that part where it looks like he almost turns and kind of stares down
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Ryan Ferguson like he like he tries to stare him down like he he goes out of his way to move his head all the way to
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his left to kind of just and later on there would be claims that like there'd be claims by Chucky saying hey uh a lot
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of the reason to get him to talk about or you know not to confess but to testify against Ryan was because all
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these people were saying all these rumors around him were saying Brian was going to throw him under the bus so you
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know I'm going to throw you under the bus first so maybe that's why he was staring him down like hey I got you
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right now the defense they countered that uh you know all of the evidence found at
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the crime scene that night it pointed elsewhere it did not point to Ryan Ferguson uh none of the hair none of the
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blood or the fingerprints samples collected at this crime scene that night they they did not match Ryan Ferguson or
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Chuck Erickson as a fact and well there's seven fingerprints right on the car seven fingerprints on on Ken's car
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and um none of a match they didn't match Erickson they didn't match Ferguson right and there were no traces of of the
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victim's blood uh found in the vehicle in Ryan Ferguson's vehicle that he was driving that night of the murder yeah so
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it basically comes down to that there's zero evidence against Ryan and there's two witnesses that weren't credible to
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begin with that are now somewhat credible I guess and they testify and Ryan actually gets on the stand which is
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pretty unheard of in a murder trial and he's convicted them and he's sentenced to what 30 years for I believe
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40 years total uh he gets convicted of second-degree murder and robbery now the thing here is though having no evidence
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of robbery right and having watched portions of the trial I will admit here captain that seeing Chuck Erickson on
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the stand if that is if and I imagine his testimony took a long time because they'd have him acting things out
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they're going over question over and over again the thing here is seeing him on the stand it he you you look like
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you're you're watching a man that seems 100 certain in everything that he is telling you and not only that he's 100
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certain that he himself is guilty right and this is why he's come forward and he's telling on this Ryan Ferguson
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character so I can see how the jury was swayed in that way even despite the lack
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of evidence but you would think there would be some physical evidence well I think the thing that's hard for us to
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understand is when you watch a trial we go how could they find him guilty well remember this jury didn't know him they
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didn't see the little Dateline Montage of him growing up and how great of a kid he was and how amazing his calf muscles
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were right they don't see that so all they're seeing is a guy that they don't know
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and maybe he doesn't I don't think to me as far as like Ryan Ferguson on the stand he comes off as somebody that is
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malicious enough to do um what Chucky is saying but Chucky Chucky seems a little odd and when he's making
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these actions and and showing how well this is how he punched him and this is and then this is how Ryan strangled him
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he looks a little crazy yeah so you know as as as far as the jury's concerned why
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wouldn't they believe that this guy is possible you know this guy possibly had something to do with the murders because
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he's a little nutcase right well ultimately we get like we said Ryan gets 40 years in prison um we have Chuck
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Erickson who gets 20 I believe 25 years was part of his plea agreement with the prosecutor the problem here is Captain
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there are some real problems with this story and I'm talking about the story that the police and the prosecutor put
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together inside to the jury to ultimately get this conviction so let's go through some problems with the story
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okay okay so first off now this is a this is according to free ryanferguson.com uh so I could that
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might be a little biased I could see if some people would think it's a little biased but this statement would be
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verified later and we'll get into that later okay um so but but the first thing that we
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have here is that the the bar itself Remember by George's that's uh the captain's favorite bar
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um but George's by George my favorite bar according to employees of the bar as well as a city ordinance and state
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statute um that bar closed at 1 30 a.m on that on that Wednesday becoming Thursday
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morning right okay so that goes with Ryan's story that goes exactly with Ryan's story he says we were at the bar
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till 1 30 and then Ferguson was exactly right I drove Chuck home and then I went
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to my house now keep in mind that goes completely against Chucky's story now you got me saying Chucky it goes against
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Chuck's story because of Chucky it goes against in two manners right first off they weren't at the bar as late as chuck
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had originally stated and second of all they would not be able to come back to the bar at 2 45 a.m and then stay for an
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additional hour to an hour and a half dancing and drinking and having a good time because according to the state law
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that bar was not open at that time at least proving that one of these statements in his story is a Lie the
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next thing that we have to point out is Ryan's phone records we touched upon this in the first episode okay now so
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going through this Ryan Ferguson he was he was absolutely on his phone his phone
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was being used between 1 41 am and 209 am this now this does not entirely discredit uh Chuck statements right
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because Chuck does state that after they left the bar Ryan was on his phone right but it does
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confirm it reconfirms Ryan's statements you're exactly right it goes more toward
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the way of Ryan's statements have having been true that he went home he was on his phone then he went to bed
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okay so now we have Dallas Mallory remember we talked about Dallas Mallory he was
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the player player slightly older guy you know a little bit older than the guys uh
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Ryan and Chuck and he was the one that they saw at the intersection that night shortly after the murder so Dallas or
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females is the only person who can cooperate any part of Chuck's story now in December of 2004 okay that that was
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what they got from an affidavit in December of 2004. he later then stated that he was not at he was not at that
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intersection that night he had not signed seen either Ryan or Chuck that night furthermore
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we have proof that Dallas Mallory did not have a valid driver's license at the time or a vehicle he didn't own a
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vehicle he he had had an omvi or DUI whatever they call it in Missouri and he had lost his license due to that and I
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believe he sold his car either because he couldn't use it or to pay for some of his illegal fees right so he doesn't
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have access to a vehicle he doesn't have a driver's license at that time now furthermore
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well the furthermore and furthermore the thing that happens here is well remember
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Chuck was able to state that Dallas was wearing a police officer's uniform that night for a Halloween party yeah well
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the problem with that is police say well there's your proof that that Dallas Mallory saw those guys at that
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intersection the problem with that is later the Ferguson family is able to prove that Dallas Mallory and Chuck
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Erickson were at one of the same Halloween parties earlier that night that chuck could be confused and he
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actually saw him at a Halloween party I believe there's a photo of the two of them uh we have Dallas Mallory standing
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behind Chuck Erickson and Mallory is in full police uniform outfit right so yeah
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he black you know Chucky blacks out does a bunch of blow and and and a bunch of other drugs and he blacks out but he
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does remember seeing this guy at some point down us and he saw him at some point in a police outfit so that goes
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with his story but also proves that it could happen at a different time the other thing that's interesting is the
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fact that you know he claims that Dallas stopped at a red light well those lights
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aren't red or green at that time of day they're flashing red or flashing yellow so they're flashing yellow
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so they're not cycling light right but what I'm saying is if it at an intersection you'll have one section
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that's flashing yellow and the other intersection normally flashes red so one will have to proceed with caution the
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other one might have to stop depending on the traffic the the way that Dallas was going quote unquote is he would have
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been faced with a yellow light so he never would have had a stop yeah I believe so again these are multiple
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sources saying that this story is [ __ ] we also have Shauna ornt and we talked about her working at the Tribune
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that night now she is called to testify but she never specifically is asked did you see Chuck Erickson and Ryan Ferguson
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there that night in the parking lot and what well and what she told the cops and
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what she told prosecution is that those were not the the two guys that she saw that night yeah and
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she would later State that's why Kevin crane did not specifically ask me that question because he knew I was going to
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say no those weren't the two guys that I saw right but doesn't the defense get to
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like you know have interviews with these Witnesses and talk to them and and so they would know that if I ask her on the
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stand can you point to the person that you saw that night in the courtroom that she would say and I can't because
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they're not here right that would have been huge for the defense it would have been a big step in
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the right direction for this and they talked a lot about how like he would uh slow draw everything took forever well
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it did and you know what I think a big part of that was though Captain lack of preparation uh it was I think it I think
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it's partly that but I also think it's a bit of a surprise I think that you had Ericsson on the stand and you had Trump
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on the stand that were saying much different things much more detailed things pointing every arrow at your
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client and I think it took him by surprise a lot of this information you know what I mean you're handed a lot
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of this information uh you're also we also see a situation where they were not handed some information that could have
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helped their defense as well so I don't know that I want to go out there and say
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you're handed this information no but what I'm saying is that you have a list of these people and and you can
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have a somewhat of an idea of what they're going to say and you're listening you get to cross-examine afterwards so
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you know I mean so you do have time to prepare as it's happening it's not like you're the first one asking questions is
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what I'm saying yeah and then we also have the the possibility of a potential other suspect now remember we talked
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about we went through the detailed accounts of that night before we talked about a man named Michael Boyd
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um well he's not really investigated he's interviewed but not what I would consider investigated well you should
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have been investigated because he was the last person to talk with with Ken so yeah as far as we know that he he's
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admitting that he was either the last or second the last person to talk to Kent heitolt that evening and if you go by
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his timeline compared to when the 9-1-1 call is placed that almost puts him standing next to or right by Kent at the
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time of his murder or very very close to it well yeah look there's there's a ton
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of evidence and ton of speculation that's like they got the wrong man but the fact
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of the matter is he's convicted and he's in jail and he's sentenced to 40 years now Ryan Ferguson will eventually get to
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appeal this conviction and they will have another trial some new things come to light at this trial right but
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unfortunately we have a situation where the verdict the guilty verdict is not overturned with this first appeal yeah
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even though they brought up you know tons of evidence tons of evidence that shows that the the detectives in the
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defense didn't interview I think 11 Witnesses this should have been called in the first trial right yeah and then
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in 2009 we have a new character comes into the fold right we have high profile Chicago attorney Kathleen Zellner she
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decides to take on Ryan's case uh pro bono and in 2012 well her hard work and her investigators
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hard work it pays off because at this point both Chuck Erickson and Jerry Trump basically the two that single that
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together took down Ryan Ferguson and got that guilty verdict even though there was no physical evidence
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they got them to recant their trial testimony in statements given to both Zellner and her investigator yeah and
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just to show you how powerful this is that if you do recant especially because you were in a trial you can be facing
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perjury charges and so you could actually do time in prison for this right so as far as like as far as like
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the outsider's eyes to me this recanting your statement actually holds a bunch of
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weight to me because you're possibly facing you know jail time well Zellner she files and she gets a
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habeas corpus hearing so during this hearing this is when both Chuck Erickson and Jerry Trump admitted that they lied
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in Ryan Ferguson's trial now Chuck Erickson claimed that the prosecutor this is Kevin crane that he had
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pressured him into implicating Ryan uh Chuck testified in the habeas hearing that he does not remember the evening of
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the murder because of his heavy drug and alcohol use that night and that he did in fact black out now we also have the
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situation where you see Chuck Chuck he comes forward and he originally says that Ryan had nothing to do with this
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that he that Chuck was the one that that single-handedly carried out this murder
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right but in this hearing he states that he has no memory of that evening just like
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he told the police in his original statement now we have Jerry Trump okay who recants as well his story about his
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wife sending him the newspaper and him seeing the pictures of the two boys in there uh he actually says that that it
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was he saw it wasn't his wife that sent him those new the newspaper that he actually didn't see that newspaper until
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he was at Crane's office and crane had showed him the photos from the newspaper and basically which is basically stating
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that the prosecutor is helping me create the story to be an eyewitness and that's
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illegal yeah and and like we said crane was in some of his own legal troubles at
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the time uh probably thought that you know I don't want to pick a fight with the prosecutor with this very aggressive
00:24:12
prosecutor um and you know stating that crane told him something like it would be help for
00:24:18
to the state it would be helpful for Jerry Trump if he could identify the two guys at the crime scene one then Michael
00:24:27
Boyd's going to come back into the story as well this is the co-worker that claims that he talked to Kent right you
00:24:34
know seconds before he's murdered and uh his story has changed like five times yeah Zellner uh Ferguson's attorney will
00:24:42
point out you know to to the to the trial that that we have these conflicting stories that have changed
00:24:49
time and time again as well as she's going to point out that timeline that we talked about earlier that because of
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some of Boyd's own words that places him with Kent eitholt at the time these are
00:25:02
her words at the time of his murder well weren't they also able to present evidence that that proved that there was
00:25:10
evidence withheld from the defense correct yes this would have been some of those eyewitnesses that you stated that
00:25:17
that were called in this hearing one of them being Ken Kim Bennett she was a person that was at the bar that night at
00:25:25
by George's that night the prosecution did not tell the defense about speaking with Kim Kim Bennett now
00:25:33
Kim why did they not tell them because Kim Bennett told the prosecutor that she was at the bar that night and she left
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sometime between 1 15 and 1 30 a.m and during that time that she left she saw Ryan Ferguson and Chuck Erickson get
00:25:50
into Ryan's vehicle and drive off at that at that same time right which would go with Ryan Ferguson's story yeah the
00:25:59
other person that they didn't that they failed to tell the defense about was a guy by the name of Mike shook well who
00:26:06
is he well he's very important to this case in my opinion because he is an employee at the Buy George's Bar
00:26:13
and uh he testifies at this hearing that the bar in fact did close at 1 30 a.m and that he did not let anybody back
00:26:24
into the bar after the bar had closed this again would disprove Chuck Erickson's story well yeah let's call
00:26:32
what it is you know Chucky and the police's story so now Captain we also have Shauna ort
00:26:39
um and we talked about her quite a bit so I won't go through the whole thing but during this hearing we do get get to
00:26:46
hear her State why she thinks um that she not only why she thinks that she wasn't asked to directly identify
00:26:53
Ryan Ferguson because we know that answer but furthermore she states that her interaction with the prosecutor
00:27:00
Kevin crane she found him to be what she called threatening uh that he constantly
00:27:07
was asking her to implicate Ryan Ferguson as being one of the people that she had seen in the parking lot the
00:27:14
night of the murder and she time and time again would not and he became very aggressive and almost threatening to her
00:27:21
right and like she stated from the beginning telling the police officers telling the prosecution that's not the
00:27:28
guys I saw that night not the guys I saw and then you got this prosecutor you know the one that's a douchebag playing
00:27:36
an [ __ ] being aggressive and and basically threatening hey you need to say that this was Ryan and she wouldn't
00:27:43
do it it's weird to me that he would even put her on the stand but um well but who knows luckily for for
00:27:52
Ryan that the uh this conviction is eventually vacated uh this would be in 2000 late
00:27:59
2013. uh he was soon after released from prison and exonerated of all charges yeah and this this was a lengthy you
00:28:08
know we kind of skipped over it but if we went through every single trial and every single appeal there was a bunch of
00:28:15
failed attempts and probably a lot of that had to do with the fact that the prosecutor became a judge and this is
00:28:22
one of his big cases and that would go against the whole system then the whole system's bad that the cops are bad the
00:28:29
prosecutor's bad and now the prosecutor is a judge so therefore the system uh is
00:28:34
is failed yeah so and I'll tell you what and I know that the conviction is overturned but we're not going to finish
00:28:40
there because what I want to do next Captain after this beer break let's go through this because what happens here
00:28:45
is we have a conviction overturned now this presents a whole bunch of other questions you know what really did
00:28:52
happen that night so let's let's answer those questions after this quick beer break
00:28:58
[Music] all right we're back cheers everybody cheers mates cheers so here's how we're
00:29:17
gonna do the second half of this thing now yesterday when I was hanging out in the garage with the captain I told him
00:29:22
you know I'm gonna bring with me tomorrow some questions that I kind of just want the two of us to talk through
00:29:27
together want to hear his opinion give my opinion and kind of walk us through this case a bit and maybe come up with
00:29:35
some answers here because with with Ryan Ferguson being let go exonerated now to
00:29:42
me there's all kinds of questions in this case uh but to be fair I should point out that the captain has not been
00:29:48
told in advance about these questions so we're gonna I'll start you off with question number one Captain
00:29:55
um do you think that Ryan Ferguson actually committed this crime or was involved in this crime but somehow got
00:30:03
lucky and ends up getting off my I don't believe so I think he is a kid of good character not a kid anymore obviously
00:30:12
and there's no physical evidence and so I mean he was convicted on basically two lies that that's my thoughts on it
00:30:22
well I I agree with you uh the the only time I kind of questioned uh his guilt um was like like what I said with um
00:30:32
Erickson's demeanor on the stand I questioned it a little bit but having seen the actual confession tapes and the
00:30:39
interrogation tapes that kind of discredits that 100 but also seeing the composite drawing that was provided by
00:30:47
Shauna um it to me it actually looked somewhat like a mashing if you took if you took
00:30:54
Chuck's face and you took Ryan's face and kind of smushed them together that it would look somewhat like like the
00:31:01
both of them however she outwardly states that these are not the guys that I saw that night and there's no question
00:31:07
in her mind so to me I gotta go with what she said well when they right but when they also say
00:31:13
I think the first thing for me that I went oh that's a little odd is when they claim that
00:31:19
one of the people they saw had an athletic build and a lot of 17 year olds are not going to have this noticeably
00:31:27
athletic build and Ryan did so that was kind of the first thing that made me go ah and I see
00:31:35
your point that Chucky was very convincing on the stand and that's probably why he was found
00:31:42
guilty was based off of Chucky but let's just go with the whole fact that you know he was coached up by crane
00:31:50
who's coached up by the prosecution he was coach coached up from the beginning when he went to come in and confess he
00:31:57
was coached up and the the word go of the confession so yeah of course he he's an expert on what
00:32:04
he has had conversations about but these weren't things that actually happened uh question number two okay uh you know
00:32:12
Ryan Ferguson in our opinion Didn't Do It um he's been exonerated I think rightfully so
00:32:17
um but do you think that Charles or Chuck Erickson did have some involvement or like he did say at one time committed
00:32:25
the crime completely by himself if we go by Ryan Ferguson's timeline which we believe to be true that they left the
00:32:33
bar at 1 30 a.m he was able to return Chuck to his home and continue on to his own home and get there by 140 then it's
00:32:43
conceivable that chuck could have returned to the parking lot of the Daily Tribune in time to commit the murder
00:32:50
yeah but again with his confession and yeah it's two years later and and Chucky has a drug problem but
00:32:58
or had a drug problem um he might still have one in jail who knows but again lack of lack of evidence physical
00:33:07
evidence there you know there's never any talk about DNA but you would you would think that you'd have at least
00:33:14
some kind of DNA on the Belt and and again they're not bringing it up so let's just assume it's not there
00:33:23
seven fingerprints on the car not one of them match Chucky not one of a match Ryan so is it is it possible that he got
00:33:31
dropped off by Ryan and he was in this uh coked out state in this uh alcoholic State and he just went out looking for
00:33:38
more it's possible but again where's the evidence yeah and he doesn't even you know I said
00:33:45
that somewhat the facial thing could look like the composite drawing but he doesn't physically you know his height
00:33:52
and his weight and his build do not match what is described by Shauna there the person that she describes is several
00:33:59
inches taller than him uh several pounds heavier than him maybe 20 30 pounds heavier than him
00:34:07
um and if and his motive doesn't make any sense yeah plus his his what he claims he was
00:34:13
wearing that night does not match the description of the clothing that Shauna gives at all
00:34:19
um that evening as well uh the thing here too regarding Chuck like I pointed out in the I don't recall if it was
00:34:26
earlier this episode or if it was late yesterday's episode but the the whole process about the interrogation I want
00:34:32
to not drink so much the whole process of the interrogation where the the detective wrongfully says that that
00:34:42
Kent was hit 15 times with this object and he gets he gets chucked to agree to 15 being the
00:34:49
number right uh it's obvious to me not only does Chuck not know how many times Kent was hit with this object neither
00:34:55
does the detective so I think that uh that clears up up Chuck for me again weird with the with no skull fracture
00:35:04
that's that's an odd thing to me and when when they're at trial and Chuck is describing how he hit
00:35:12
uh Kent and how how forcefully and how fast he says that he hit him and in that overhand motion right
00:35:20
um I I struggled to believe that if they were using a tire iron or some kind of tire changing tool that they got from
00:35:28
Ryan's trunk that or that he brought on his own that hitting with that velocity that he that he would not be able to
00:35:36
that there would be no skull fracture seems very strange to me yeah um this is kind of an out of the box
00:35:43
question for you Captain but um do you think that there is something wrong with Chuck or Charles
00:35:49
yes and I don't know a chicken or the egg I don't know if it was something was wrong with them mentally so he was then
00:35:58
self-medicating through drugs and alcohol and then that led him to the point where
00:36:02
he's at now because he definitely seems a lot clearer these days um but yeah so which one was it the
00:36:10
chicken the egg or what you know did he start using drugs and that created some mental problems for him I think he's not
00:36:17
all there yeah I get the vibe that there's some kind of personality or social some kind of disorder there maybe
00:36:25
it's undiagnosed we do know that the prison system does not do a great job of checking on people's mental health right
00:36:33
in situations like that um yeah and just being confined to that space is going to do a number on your
00:36:39
mental health anyways and I understand that I'm observing his life on small sample sizes you know over the course of
00:36:47
a period of time over the course of 10 years or so right but what I saw is I'm seeing almost a different person
00:36:56
every time right did you get that Vibe like yeah but let's let's be honest I mean crime would happen when he's 17. he
00:37:04
would confess when he was 19. so that's when we first start seeing this 1921 is first trial of Ryan Ferguson so that
00:37:11
would be the first time we'd see him and then you're seeing him later you know the other trials you know three years
00:37:18
after that five years after that so I mean you're going from a 19 year old you know to 20 some year old that that's a
00:37:25
whole different world no and I I agree and that's why I pointed it out that I'm talking about him over the course of a
00:37:31
period of time because I agree that physically and mentally and emotionally he's changing and adapting uh throughout
00:37:39
the course of time however to me I felt like I was seeing whoever he decided to be or whoever he was told to
00:37:48
be in that moment yeah and meaning when he is interrogated or when he's especially when he's being driven around
00:37:55
and questioned about the locations of things and where they went he to there me he looks like the confused person
00:38:03
that he believed he was right he looked like a blank canvas that knew nothing that had nothing on it and was going to
00:38:10
wait for people to apply their own impressions when I see him at the trial that you
00:38:17
gotta admit that's a 180 degree change right there it's not just a guy that goes first trial yeah not just the guy
00:38:24
that goes from knowing nothing to knowing everything there's like a certain amount of hate in his eyes and
00:38:30
it almost looks to me like there's there's hate in his eyes for Ryan Ferguson you know like I said it
00:38:35
appeared to me like he kind of tried to stare him down as he walked into the into the courtroom and as he was sitting
00:38:42
there on the stands you see somebody that's very aggressive he can't wait for the prosecutor to get the words out of
00:38:49
the prosecutor's mouth to start answering his questions well again but if that speculation is true and what he
00:38:54
is saying is they have inmates talking to him and I wouldn't put it past the cops going hey let's tell some of these
00:39:00
inmates that Ryan's going to turn on him and we're going to get Chucky all nervous right so yeah maybe it was like
00:39:07
you know uh yeah I know we kind of I kind of got us into this mess and I don't really know what happened that day
00:39:12
but uh you want to throw me under the bus look Chucky is not an idiot he he actually seems like he's actually a
00:39:19
pretty bright guy he likes to challenge he likes to debate probably would have made a pretty good lawyer but at the end
00:39:26
but at the end of the day he's a little nutso so that little nutso turned into uh I gotta get this guy before he gets
00:39:34
me but while he's on stand he you're he seems like a man of conviction you know what I mean of a man that said you know
00:39:40
I've done something wrong and this is the only way I can make it right and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go
00:39:46
down fighting if I have to but I'm going to make this right yeah Chucky is so weird to me because one you have this
00:39:52
ridiculous story that doesn't make any sense and you don't even have it you don't even have any of the details
00:39:58
and then you come forward they hand you the details now this guy's in jail you're in jail a couple years later you
00:40:04
feel so bad because you don't know if Ryan was there so you put the whole blame on yourself and then that kind of
00:40:10
helps out Ryan but at the end of the day neither one of you probably were there and Brian Ferguson's story is probably
00:40:17
true so you know I I feel for the guy because like I said there is something off there
00:40:22
definitely has some intelligence but something is definitely wrong there I agree and I'm I'm glad that you saw it
00:40:29
too because I was thinking maybe maybe I'm kind of weird and just seeing something that's not there but it's
00:40:34
weird but I saw it again when when he changed his story to that Chuck was the only one guilty and then later when he
00:40:41
changes the story back to I don't remember anything of that night I swear when I look at him and he says
00:40:47
that the final time I see in his eyes and I almost see his face of that of that 19 year old boy again of
00:40:53
that of that blank canvas that just truly didn't know what was going on and is waiting to be told what actually
00:41:00
happened that night um we should point out though right that Charles Erickson remains imprisoned yeah
00:41:08
which is it's a cry man it's a crime as as much look Ryan Ferguson is definitely
00:41:13
the All-American boy you know he he's a good looking guy he's physically fit apparently his calves are incredible
00:41:21
incredible incredible Cavs I think he does like some Fitness stuff now like Spartan races and stuff like that
00:41:28
um smart kid uh seemed to always do the right thing was involved in in athletics
00:41:33
and stuff like that and yes Eric got them into this mess but he's like the Forgotten one oh great we got Ryan out
00:41:41
okay that's great but we still have somebody convicted of this murder and we all know and the
00:41:48
system knows that Chucky didn't do this right so that's a crime in itself and then you got to put on top of that
00:41:55
there's a victim in all this right right there's a guy that we we don't know what
00:42:00
the motive of his murder was and it was a vicious murder I mean this guy was held down probably had a foot on his
00:42:10
chest and somebody's choking the life out of him with his own belt and and and Kent deserves better than that and yes
00:42:17
I'm glad that the justice system uh you know made uh wrong a right and yeah I'm sorry that Ryan had to spend time in
00:42:26
jail that's Injustice I believe so but it's Injustice that Chucky's Behind Bars it's an injustice that we're not
00:42:33
investigating the case to solve the murder of Ken yeah and we should point out too that Ryan has said that he you
00:42:40
know he wants to help Chuck or or who's going by Charles now he wants to help Charles with his release from prison as
00:42:47
well even though like you said you know Ryan ends up in prison because of Charles yeah
00:42:53
um and you know he said that he will continue Ryan will continue to fight uh for the innocent people that are in
00:43:00
prison including Charles Erickson one of the things that you can tell that makes
00:43:05
Ryan such a good dude is one Trump which lies right um lies on trouble Jerry Trump lies on
00:43:12
the yeah let's not make this blizzard let's not start a fight oh man you don't want that fight yeah you don't want to
00:43:18
you want to fight you don't want to fight the man with small hands oh what I'm saying though is is he forgives
00:43:24
Jerry Trump Jerry Trump has had his uh trials he's you know not a good guy anybody that
00:43:31
anybody that is um anybody that has crimes against children I can't have their back but what Ryan says is he can
00:43:40
forgive Jerry for lying right he also forgives Chucky so I think that's a sign of of a pretty
00:43:49
um self-intuitive person now I don't think he forgives crane at all but that's just that's my opinion
00:43:56
but so I I think it's good Ryan anybody if you if you're invested in this case at all do as much as you can to help
00:44:03
Chucky out because he's just going to be there well and crane is sort of the Puppet Master right and it's hard to
00:44:10
it's really tough to forgive the Puppet Master you can forgive the puppets but you don't forgive the Puppet Master yeah
00:44:17
but in Crane's defense you are handed a case based off of the detectives there is no case
00:44:27
um now he should have from the word go say I'm looking at these tapes and this doesn't line up and no thank you I'm not
00:44:34
I'm not running with this case the cops should stop this from from you know two years they had nothing that's
00:44:41
fine but but you didn't get anything afterwards got a bunch of false stuff and when they
00:44:47
should just be lined up taped against the wall and just let me punch the face for a while because they kept on saying
00:44:53
stuff like well I'm not interested in that I'm just interested in the truth no you're not you stupid piece of [ __ ]
00:44:58
you're not interested in the truth what I was saying is it's it should have stopped at the detectives it should have
00:45:06
stopped there and and when they when none of the pieces of the puzzle were fitting you stop and they deserve
00:45:13
punched in the face all right let's let's shift gears here for a second okay so uh Captain with without naming names
00:45:21
or pointing fingers or or doing a whodunit type thing uh do you think that this was a premeditated murder or do you
00:45:30
think this is you know unplanned uh I don't know if it I don't know either way I don't look because
00:45:38
obviously it was a vicious attack and I don't think that needed you know a vicious attack needs to be planned or
00:45:44
not and also I think the evidence of maybe it's not planned is who would who would get in an argument or a tussle
00:45:51
with a guy and plan on uh you know choking them to death with the guy's own belt yeah I mean that'd be kind of a
00:45:59
weird plan to come up with you bring up a very good point there um you know and to further that point
00:46:05
it's you know that you're attacking a large man with an object that we've pointed out time and time again was not
00:46:12
strong enough to create a skull fracture or with not enough Force to create some
00:46:18
kind of fracture that that seems like you said a bad plan it doesn't seem to be a well thought out plan to bring that
00:46:26
kind of weapon there and then um obviously you can't plan on using somebody's belt to strangle them uh you
00:46:34
know especially a man of his size how are you going to get that belt off of him well it's very odd to me that the
00:46:40
police came up with the motive of robbery when there's not really much science well robbery the way that the
00:46:46
way that I understand it is they only came up with the motive of robbery after the fact after having spoken to Charles
00:46:54
Erickson about the crime and why he would have done the crime right but instead of trying to make the pieces of
00:47:00
the puzzle fit they're creating their own pieces yeah and so when they're in the first investigation part of the of
00:47:07
the investigation early in the investigation they don't really have a motive to work off of uh other than
00:47:13
looking for those two quote-unquote College age Caucasian males right so what would be some motives I mean you
00:47:20
know maybe he's having an affair with somebody um maybe you know maybe it's maybe it is
00:47:26
just random but like I said there's no sign of of robbery and so you're just gonna so the motive is just I was
00:47:33
walking down the street and saw this guy and decided I want to choke him to death
00:47:36
with his own belt uh maybe he had a gambling problem to me the choking the guy to death with his own belt seems
00:47:45
very violent very vicious almost like you're trying like that was a statement piece and so did he I mean he was a
00:47:53
sports writer was he into gambling I'm not for sure well okay so you you brought up motive
00:48:02
the problem with motive for me kind of Cycles back into is this premeditated or unplanned
00:48:10
um here's what I think here's what I see anyway um I I see somebody like you said this this
00:48:18
strangling the way that it went down is very vicious so that to me either points
00:48:23
to somebody that had a very deep hatred for this man and wanted to kill him that
00:48:29
would imply that it's premeditated or that this was some kind of Rage that there was some kind of argument or some
00:48:36
kind of incident that took place and it was you know Split Second rage that took
00:48:41
this person over and they raged so hard they didn't cause a fracture though right and so you
00:48:49
know you ask I've asked myself how would this person come in possession of a belt
00:48:55
that was on the man that they attack I've heard Bill Ferguson he pointed out something uh that was interesting he
00:49:04
said that his daughter came up with the theory and remember we pointed out the size of Kent height hold he was he was a
00:49:12
large man he was not only tall but he was big Burly and the thing is she his daughter said to him you know well maybe
00:49:20
you know sometimes with larger people they will especially men they will undo their belt uh in certain situations when
00:49:28
they're getting ready to sit down we know that Kent was leaving potentially leaving for the evening he could be
00:49:34
driving home maybe he found it uncomfortable to drive with his belt on and that was something that he typically
00:49:39
did and that would make the belt easy for the person that committed the crime to to take it off
00:49:46
um so that's that's an interesting thought there my my thought too though would be is there a chance that Kent was
00:49:54
looking for a weapon and undid his belt in an attempt to use it as some kind of weapon we know that whoever he was you
00:50:02
know arguing with whoever he's having an incident with or whoever decided to attack him already has a weapon maybe he
00:50:09
feels if I can get a weapon I can better defend myself and removes his own Bell or attempts to remove his own yeah or
00:50:16
like you said I mean he's he's just unbuckling his belt to get in his car he gets attacked and then just pulls it out
00:50:24
um but I I don't know the other thing too is like you said we're not going to name
00:50:30
any names but we might as well well we're going to have to well Michael Boyd right we have to name Michael Boyd but
00:50:36
look here's something that people should take a clue on I think when Ryan was losing all his appeals they needed to
00:50:46
find the person right yeah they didn't have enough they didn't have enough they couldn't check enough boxes to get him
00:50:53
acquitted on his own that they needed to check the box of oh by the way here's the guy that did it
00:51:00
and I think they went after him and the and the media went after him and yeah he
00:51:04
changed some of his stories I don't know if he's innocent I don't know if he's guilty but here's what I do know is
00:51:11
anything that once Ryan was released anything when they're talking about this case they don't mention Michael Boyd and
00:51:17
I think they do so for probably legal reasons because if you don't have a bunch of evidence then you can't be
00:51:24
naming this guy as this Prime Suspect if he's not well and as we said Michael Boyd was interviewed but not quote
00:51:31
unquote investigated and you know people that don't know much about this case are
00:51:36
going to go well why was he not investigated he was one of the last people to speak with the victim well my
00:51:43
only guess is this is that you know they were told to be looking for two Caucasian guys Michael Boyd is
00:51:52
African-American um therefore and there's only one of him yes and there's only one of him so he
00:51:57
doesn't become their immediate suspect um that's probably why he was not investigated early on now I do want to
00:52:05
throw this out there too at you captain and I'm not going to comment on the competence of the police department or
00:52:15
the detectives involved in this case because I I don't have a full understanding of their investigation
00:52:21
into the murder of Kent iolt I only have an understanding of the portions that involve Ryan Ferguson and Charles
00:52:31
Erickson right okay so during that we have two years before we get to those guys now one thing here is we have a
00:52:39
parking lot we have several employees inside the building you know when when you first look at this case if you don't
00:52:45
know anything about it you kind of assume that maybe there's this one dude working all by himself and he walks out
00:52:50
into a dark parking lot in the middle of the night and helping happens to get randomly attacked
00:52:55
it's not so much that we have a building that's got several people in it in a parking lot that has portions that are
00:53:01
well lit and we have two very obvious security cameras on the building right so what that would make one think is
00:53:09
well those security cameras were not working this guy's killed in a parking lot where anybody inside the building
00:53:16
could potentially see the attack first off anybody Manning those cameras or watching those videos could potentially
00:53:23
see or have evidence video footage of who committed the murder Who would know that those cameras were
00:53:29
not working well you would then assume it would be somebody working in that building yeah because they know that the
00:53:35
cameras weren't working yeah and I hope and I don't know that they did or did not and that's why I won't comment on
00:53:40
the competence on their competence regarding this investigation but you have fingerprints you have that hair if
00:53:47
those those should be and I hope that they were tested against employees that worked in that building well and also
00:53:55
the belt there's going to be DNA there should you would expect to see some DNA there's at least touch DNA so I I'm
00:54:03
hoping that they they tested that against the employ the employees that were working that night and have somehow
00:54:10
cleared them it'd be nice to know that if they've done that um we've not heard they're done you're
00:54:15
not going to hear anything about this because there's a guy that sits in jail that's accused of the murder so this
00:54:21
case is closed my friend they're not going to look into it and I'm afraid you might be right on that and also so look
00:54:28
it's you know Kent was a chubby white dude you know sports reporter that's the there's so many Injustice
00:54:36
here you know like I said I again we can't we can't speculate on the investigation but they had nothing so
00:54:43
then you get a little bite and they ran with it but they ran too hard too fast and they didn't do their due diligence
00:54:50
and they didn't view this as we need Justice we need truth like they said you need truth and then they hand it off to
00:54:58
a prosecutor trying to make a name for himself and all the name you made my friend was [ __ ] stain that's what you
00:55:04
are your judge [ __ ] stain now and then you have two innocent kids that you know
00:55:09
have basically been locked up since they're 19 and then on top of that again if Michael Boyd had nothing to do with
00:55:16
it you have media running his name through the mud and making him look like he's a piece of [ __ ] and we have really
00:55:21
no evidence of that you know because did they test his fingerprints did those match was their DNA nobody knows so
00:55:28
that's an injustice and then at the end of the day we got Kent that you know somebody's locked up for
00:55:34
his crime so nobody gives a [ __ ] and then and that I think when I first saw a documentary on this or a dateline or
00:55:44
something on this I I was really frustrated but it was only a single you know singular frustration that this
00:55:52
innocent kid that could have been me or you or anybody that we grew up with charged with this vicious crime and then
00:55:58
sitting in jail for almost 10 years when they're innocent 10 years of their life being lost in how that affects
00:56:05
their family but now I don't know how how many years later after seeing that documentary
00:56:11
it's like my frustration has grown with the whole that whole system and there needs to be bigger checks and
00:56:18
balances like I said there needs to be if if a detective is going to interrogate if the detective is going to
00:56:25
make up falsities or give out details that they shouldn't give out that you know makes the you know makes the
00:56:31
confession null and void there needs to be better checks and balances yeah and I think that the you know the
00:56:39
defense team should have been able to do a better job of presenting the way that
00:56:44
that interrogation went down to the jury than what they did yeah but again that's
00:56:49
null and void if you don't even get to the trial because you should have never got to the trial I uh no I agree 100
00:56:57
um as far as Michael Boyd's name goes um has it been drugged through the mud yes uh it's not it's not Uh Kevin
00:57:05
Crane's fault that his name has been drugged through the mud in my opinion it's the it's been the attorneys for
00:57:12
Ryan Ferguson that has brought his name up time and time again it's the online community that's kept his name running
00:57:18
uh We've mentioned his name here too so we're just as guilty as anybody else so on that topic do you think Michael Boyd
00:57:26
uh for you it would be considered Prime Suspect number one uh I mean look he's the he's in the same
00:57:35
location roughly about the time of the murder so I think his story is very important
00:57:41
the problem is he's changed it multiple times so um I don't think him necessarily
00:57:47
changing it means that he's instantly guilty but why are you changing the story bud you know like just tell the
00:57:54
truth stick with the truth again though a lot of the I feel for the guy because a lot of this stuff is them questioning
00:58:03
him years and years later so maybe by going through the events you you kind of remember things a little differently
00:58:12
you know what I'm saying right like obviously you he would remember that night more than most people but what was
00:58:18
what were his statements right afterwards you know what I mean uh so I I don't know uh yeah I uh
00:58:28
for me I don't know that I would put him as my number one suspect I don't have a
00:58:34
number one suspect to be honest with you he would be somebody a person that I would want to talk to yeah of
00:58:38
interesting he might be able to lead you down the right rabbit hole and I think you have enough evidence that was
00:58:43
collected at the scene to either clear him or maybe bring up charges on him uh the thing that I the thing that I can't
00:58:51
get over though is there was a blood trail that led near the alley or all the way to the alley from the parking lot
00:59:00
okay so a couple issues with that blood trail one could could Michael Boyd have left
00:59:07
that potentially left that blood trail his car was parked somewhat in that area it's it's possible it's possible but the
00:59:15
way that I've heard this Blood Trail described I've never seen pictures of it I so I so I don't want anybody to go
00:59:21
crazy on this but the way I've heard it described was that it was a mess of a blood trail which would imply to me that
00:59:29
it was created by more than one person we do have we do have Shauna ort saying she saw two people and we do know that
00:59:37
they they ran off in that area after they called for help I Am with You Captain I do find it very strange that
00:59:45
that that somebody would attack somebody and then say call for help um so what I'm getting at is you have
00:59:53
two situations to me I think it boils down to two situations you either have a situation where wait hold on where these
00:59:59
guys stumbled go ahead I was just going to say unless it's one attacker and two guys were walking up and they came up to
01:00:06
help the guy runs off and then all of a sudden you're going hey call for help call for help and then you're like
01:00:12
[ __ ] we gotta get out of here yeah and you've gotten blood all over your shoes
01:00:16
at this point and you've taken off right you might maybe you have a prior you know and you were just trying to look
01:00:21
it's different if you've been behind bars before you might go up to help somebody and the cops come and you go
01:00:27
[ __ ] I'm out of here I'm not messing with those guys again well and if you see the way that they handled the
01:00:33
Charles Erickson Ryan Ferguson situation that does not inspire you to come forward at any time soon and say I was
01:00:40
there and I stumbled upon this guy he was attacked I told them to call for help and then I left because I was drunk
01:00:45
or because I didn't want to be in the area when this thing went down or I was afraid I was afraid that the whoever did
01:00:52
this was still lurking in the in the parking lot right um the big problem I have is something
01:00:58
that you asked earlier motive I I struggle to find a motive for Michael Boyd to have done this as well as I
01:01:06
struggle to see any motive at all uh for this to have taken place from everything
01:01:12
I read about Kent he he seemed to be a great guy well liked at work well liked in in the community
01:01:20
um you know I know we don't know much about these people when we when we look into these crimes we only get to see
01:01:25
little Snippets and little small sample sizes of their life but I struggle to find any kind of
01:01:30
motive here this almost seems to me as some kind of random crazy attack and I think that that is a big problem that
01:01:38
has hindered this investigation that there's there is lack of motive there is lack of reasoning and why anybody would
01:01:45
commit this crime yeah again I mean like being involved in sports I would I'd want to know his background if he had
01:01:51
any gambling problems there so to me that would explain how vicious of attack it was and it would explain why
01:02:01
they used his belt you know uh even look I mean he could have been taken off his
01:02:06
belt but again I to me that's like it's like making a statement yeah I really just get the feeling here like I said no
01:02:13
motive I feel like he he came across somebody or somebody's and there there was some kind of altercation that broke
01:02:21
out into a fight I think he tried to defend himself in the in the person or person's
01:02:27
um you know for a lack of better word went went crazy on him went homicidal on him and and this ended up being uh the
01:02:35
result unfortunately well overall it's a sad case it was sad for Ryan and his family I think it's sad you know again
01:02:43
for Chucky and I hope uh I hope Ryan does stick by his word and and tries to help him as much as he can because I
01:02:50
think he has the loudest voice and the biggest platform of anybody on this case um you know and look I'm all for good
01:02:57
police officers good detectives good prosecutors I you know I want to believe in the system but you know time and time
01:03:05
again you'll see these cases where the system fails all of us it doesn't it didn't just fail right
01:03:11
it failed everybody involved and and then essentially fails us and you're right and and while you're pointing out
01:03:19
who this was sad for it was it was sad for you everyone the Columbia Community and involved as well including the the
01:03:26
Tribune as well the the employees there that worked with Kent but as you were touching upon Captain it was a sad
01:03:33
display for our justice system as well it it failed us that day it failed so far as failed Kent Ryan and Charles
01:03:42
Erickson as well and I also do want to point out reiterate that you know we have Ryan stating that Charles has his
01:03:49
support that he has Charles's back he's going to continue to work to get some of
01:03:54
these people out of prison that are innocent including Charles we also have the Ferguson family who has offered a
01:04:02
ten thousand dollar reward for any tips that would lead to solving the murder of
01:04:06
Kent heithold which I think shows the the compassion as well as character of the Ferguson family yeah and if you're
01:04:15
interested in supporting Ryan at all for you know him being in jail for 10 years
01:04:21
wrongfully convicted um check out Ryan Ferguson Fitness and you can.com ryanfergusonfitness.com and you can
01:04:29
follow him on all social media I know he wrote some books and I think maybe he has another one coming out this year
01:04:36
maybe speaking of books how about some recommended reading here Captain this week we are recommending Queen City
01:04:42
Gothic Cincinnati's most in Infamous murder mysteries by JT Townsend I've met Mr Townsend once brilliant guy great
01:04:49
writer we had a little Zodiac Killer debate but anyway Queen City Gothic is fascinating it's a fantastic book and JT
01:04:58
Townsend takes us on a Sinister journey through 13 cases which took place in Cincinnati Ohio between 1904 and 1971
01:05:07
including the murder Zone killer the bride in the casket and Terror in The Gaslight District if you like Ohio
01:05:14
criminal history or just cold cases in general then you must have Queen City Gothic in your home library and you can
01:05:21
pick that up and add it to your library by going to True Crime garage.com and click on the recommended page we have
01:05:28
our Amazon Banner on there which you can use to purchase any of the books or movies that we have listed we will see
01:05:33
you back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't litter foreign
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