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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man whose fantasy football team is 4-0 and the whole
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roster is healthiest horses here is the captain that's because my starting quarterback is Michael Jordan my
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starting wide receiver is Babe Ruth it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
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a friend [Music] all right open up the garage fridge and gaze at the Bounty today how about some more
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montucky cold snacks from contract Brewery montucky cold snacks is 16 ounces of American lager refreshment ABV
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4.1 percent garage grade 3 and a half bottle caps out of five and let's give some thanks and praise to our friends
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who helped us fill up that fridge today first up here's a little cheers to April
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in Dalton Illinois and a big shout out to Penny in Chapel Hill Tennessee next up a big cheers to Ian Leahy and parts
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Milwaukee everybody we just mentioned went to True Crime garage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fun and for
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that we thank you yeah you got to watch out for the screen dreaming tuna in the Ugly Tuna they'll get you for everything
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learn more about that show and that's enough of the beastness all right everybody gather around grab a chair
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grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] thank you all right so where we left off yesterday
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we have two suspects one past the polygraph test one did not Wayne Nance passed the polygraph according to what
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we have found and the husband Harvey pounds the results were listed as inconclusive
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there was some real hold back information we called [ __ ] on some of the other yesterday but there was
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some real hold back information here this was how the ropes were tied to the bed
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okay so they weren't just tied to the bed post and if you read the newspaper articles that's the way that they make
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it sound and I think the sheriff's department did that on purpose the way that they were actually tied to
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the bed post is that they were looped around the bed post and then brought down and tied to the bed frame itself
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another thing was that Mrs pounds her clothing had been cut off of her and was found on the floor in the bedroom that
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was not released to the public the other thing was the secret location of the gun now we we said that several
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sources stated that where they found the gun was hold back information in fact what was hold back information was where
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the gun was hidden inside the home before the killer be it Wayne Nance be it Harvey pounds or whomever
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got it before using it to kill Donna pounds this is very interesting because what
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this does I think really has to shrink your suspect pull greatly the gun was hidden inside of you know
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sometimes people will fashion a piece of furniture that it has like a secret compartment right
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that's where this gun was kept the problem with that is there was only about a list of six or seven people
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according to everyone interviewed in the family that knew that that gun was in that secret compartment in a piece of
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furniture inside the master bedroom of the home of course everyone in the family knew
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that it was in this location right outside of that it sounds like only a couple people but on that list
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that very short list oddly enough Wayne Nance knew where that gun was this is according to the pound's son Kenny who
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is off at the Army they tell him there's been an accident at home you need to get home that's all
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we can tell you I guess his father Harvey pounds had ongoing heart issues and so his immediate thought was oh my
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God my my father's died of a heart attack he gets home to find out no it's his mother it's not been an accident she was
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murdered inside the home when he's interviewed he tells the detectives that me and my friend Wayne
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Nance who lives you know nearby almost seen in their backyard yes but again I don't think that this
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was known to any of the pounds family right right that's only known to law enforcement correct because they don't
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know where they're going with this they're still really looking at Harvey pounds they find out that this gun is in
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some kind of secret location this this hidey hole that's been constructed into a piece of furniture and they're going
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well it's got to be Harvey no Kenny tells them not only did I show Wayne at one time when we were kids where this
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gun was being curious kids we took it out of that compartment and we actually fired
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the gun on one occasion so this is quite interesting now let's talk about Wayne Nance a little bit more
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as said he's a senior at high school he lives with his family nearby and his father George is an interesting
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guy he's as far as their family goes it seems like the general consensus is that
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these are pretty normal regular people with the exception of Wayne he kind of stands out at school he's kind of the
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odd kid and that's because of his own actions and his own words his as far as his family goes his father
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at one point and I don't know I couldn't find a year for when this happened but it seems that at some point his
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father was involved in some type of robbery which led to him serving some time in
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prison and I think that this actually went down when Wayne was an adult another thing that went down when Wayne
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was an adult was his mother for the life of me I can't figure out 100 why they've listed it this way
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she died when he was a young adult and they listed her death as a suicide yet we have several people that were
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with her the night of her death that says that they were she worked at this place called the cabin which was
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known as a quote-unquote Cowboy Bar and I guess the way that they ran the place was that the employees were allowed to
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drink there whether they were working or not she was working that night and got pretty drunk during the course of her
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shift hopped in the vehicle and decided to drive off she smashes the vehicle head on into a
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tree for whatever reason they listed her death as a suicide it seems to me like she was a drunk driver and made some
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very very dangerous and poor decisions that night and all that stuff happens when Wayne is
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older but what's going on right now is we have this information that the gun was located in a secret compartment
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inside some furniture and that Kenny is telling police Wayne Nance knew about that gun and had fired
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it before so the one half of the room that likes Wayne Nance for the Donna pounds murder they're screaming at the
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top of the mountain let's go get this kid they get a search warrant they go to Wayne's house
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they start talking to him asking him questions they ask his mother questions they search his room
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and they find a couple of things that are of interest to them when they find this black bag and inside the black bag
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they find a couple 22 caliber bullets the same caliber that was used to kill Donna pounds if these are related to
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that murder it means Wayne either brought his own 22 caliber bullets to the crime scene with him
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and left with a few of them still or took some with him as some kind of trophy yeah like a souvenir right so
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again it doesn't directly tie him to the murder but it's of Interest then they find a piece of clothing that
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has it appears to have some kind of blood stain on it now this piece of clothing has been washed at least one or
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two times before or since the murder is it clothing of his it's his clothing correct found in
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his room and it's been washed but they believed that at one time it had wet blood on
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this clothing they cannot confirm if it is human blood they can't confirm that it's Donna
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pounds's blood but again this is of interest to them they collect the this article of clothing they collect the
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bullets that they found they take this back to the sheriff and now here's where we are the public is
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pressuring the sheriff's department to make an arrest charge someone with Donna pound's murder
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the sheriff and this was a very rare thing at the time goes to the prosecutor and they agree what they're going to do
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is they're going to get together a grand jury and they're going to present everything
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that the police have to the grand jury this means everything that they have against Wayne Nance but also everything
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that they have against Harvey pounds the grand jury is then going to decide one do we have enough evidence to indict
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someone and two who do we indict they review all of this evidence all of the information provided to them and at
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the end of the day at the end of their sessions the grand jury decides there's not enough
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evidence to indict anyone hmm we can't charge Wayne Nance we cannot charge Harvey pounds
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and later we would have the prosecutor and the sheriff now mind you the public they don't know that these are the two
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suspects that the grand jury was looking at this is all very silent to the public
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closed doorstuff but we have the prosecutor and the sheriff who are later on record saying
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that they were both relieved because neither of them thought that they had enough evidence to convict either
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individual and neither of them were certain who was guilty of this crime if if if either of them
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were guilty in fact yeah and you don't want to take them to trial and lose the trial and then basically lose everything
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if you find out later that that's your guy if you would have just been able to get more evidence and get against them
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so what we have here Captain is the Donna pounds case it's going to go cold after this grand
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jury decides that there's no evidence to indict anyone they don't really have any leads on the
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Siobhan McGinnis case and as far as the burnt heart case that took place five hours away in Billings
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Montana six months earlier they don't seem to have any leads in that one either Life Goes On Harvey pounds and his
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children they have to go on with their lives they have to try to pick up the pieces and have some kind of family life
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Wayne Nance graduates from high school and he joins the United States Navy that same year
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a lot of people wonder was he out there trying to serve his country or was this just a really good
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way to get out of town yeah well we've seen well I also wonder because we have a lot of serial killers
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that enter the Armed Forces and is it a way for them to to kill people right yeah because you
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are always at the risk of going off to war and a lot of people do not ever want to face
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to be put in a situation where they have to kill someone or defend defend themselves
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where somebody that is really into that kind of stuff might look for ways to to put themselves in that type of
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position and joining the Armed Forces allows that right on December 13th 1985. this is 11 years after the unsolved
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murders of Donna pounds and Siobhan McGinnis A call came into the sheriff's department this is in Ravalli County
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Montana so if you were to look at a map this is the county next to the county where they
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found Siobhan mcginnis's dead body and where Donna pounds was killed a call comes into the sheriff's
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department and this call was serious simple and to the point the caller was a male and said in a Stern voice I'm at
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gave an address and said we have two Dead adults and three kids here that are still alive get here now
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when the police show up they're arriving to a fire to a house fire um when they get inside and they put out
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the Flames this was not a very impressive fire it looked like someone had attempted to burn down the entire
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house what they found was kind of smoldering furniture that was on the ground level of the home
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causing a lot of smoke not much fire the fire department puts out this fire they when they arrived they have three
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children who have been removed from the home they're out in the front yard it's like six degrees outside
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but the male caller who found the house on fire who discovered this and called the police
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he brought the kids outside he said we have two Dead adults and three kids that are still alive get here now
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the kids were all passed out practically comatose from a lot of smoke inhalation
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what the police find inside is we find the husband and father who's been killed and he is on the
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ground level of the house and then upstairs in one of the bedrooms this is actually one of the children's
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bedrooms they find the adult female the wife and mother of the three kids the home belonged to Michael and Teresa
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Shook and their three kids their children's ages are two four and seven they had two little boys and the
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baby is a girl what they were able to determine was that at some point someone had come into the home
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tied up the husband and stabbed him to death and left him for dead in a room on the ground level
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upstairs in the baby's room the wife and Mother Teresa was sexually assaulted tied up and stabbed to death in the
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baby's room left for dead whoever killed them didn't harm the children other than set the fire and
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leave them to die in the house fire thank God this guy shows up and calls in for help right or the fact that he went
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and got the children out yeah so who is this guy this guy is a guy named Greg Lakes and he had every
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reason to be at the shook's house that morning his son was a babysitter for the shook children
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he was there to drop his son off to babysit the kids that day he shows up he said that he didn't he
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was unaware that there was any type of fire or anything going on when they first showed up they went up and knocked
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on the door several times nobody answered so I guess they even like drove off and
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got coffee or some type of breakfast and then decided to come back they just thought maybe the family wasn't up and
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ready yet and when they come back there's still no answer he found this to be weird so he's
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like I'm gonna go around and check a side door checks the side door it's unlocked he
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goes in and he finds the place is covered in Smoke the three children thank God they
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survive this whole ordeal and they were in the hospital for days because of the smoke correct police
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questioned the children as they come to you know once they start getting it back together here they
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question the children what they learn is that the seven-year-old who they were hoping to
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get some information from as he's the oldest of the three kids he knew nothing about this attack
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what he said was that he had gone to bed after the family had dinner that night and next thing he knew he woke up in the
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middle of the night his younger brother his name is Luke Luke is the four-year-old woke his older brother up
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went into his room woke him up and told him that the house was on fire they couldn't go downstairs because
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that's where the Flames were they couldn't get out of any of the windows the older boy tried some of some
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of the windows in the upstairs and he remembered from what he learned in school that smoke Rises they wanted
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to be away from the smoke so they laid down on the ground on the floor of their bedroom
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and then fell asleep next thing he knows he's waking up and he's in the hospital
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the two-year-old they're not going to get any information from the two-year-old she's very much still a
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baby at this point so now we have the four-year-old the middle child his name is Luke
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and he's got some really interesting stuff to tell the police he tells the police that he was the one
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that answered the door when the man came to the door that ended up killing his parents Luke says that after the family
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had dinner his mom and dad are busy cleaning up dinner his older brother's already gone off to his bedroom
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Luke hears a knock at the door he goes and answers the door and the man just walks right into the home that's why
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children shouldn't answer the door yeah this man doesn't introduce himself he doesn't ask for anyone he just pushes
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his way into the home the man then announces that he is Conan the Barbarian okay yeah this is weird
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for police mind you they're interviewing a four-year-old so they don't really know what to do
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with this Conan the Barbarian information yes if you telling the truth or is he just being a four-year-old and
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doesn't really understand the question he's trying to be helpful but he doesn't know any better
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he said that he saw the Man attack his father and then the boy decided to run and hide
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in his room next thing he knows he said after a good deal of time he sees the man kind of piling up furniture
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in the main room at the bottom of the stairs and he sees the man lighting the fire to
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where he gets scared again and hides in his bedroom some a little longer and eventually the smoke causes him to
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go wake up his older brother that's about as much information as they can get from Luke
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he's going to really be the only living witness there's three living children but he's the only one that seems to have
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witnessed anything police really want to know two things one has Luke ever seen this man before
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and two what is the guy's name we know it's not Conan the Barbarian Luke says that he has seen the man
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before but he can't remember where or when and when asked what the names what the
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man's name was he tries to provide them with some type of answer but they they don't know what it is that he's saying
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like whatever he's saying doesn't seem to make sense to them seems like they need to ask him easier questions is he
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tall short is he old young right and they may have I don't know if they if they did or not I'm sure that they
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probably did you're going to ask for some pretty basic identifiers of this person there was some hold back
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information in this case as well and there often is most of these cases have hold back information the hold back
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information in this case was that the both of the Shooks Michael and Teresa were tied up before being killed that
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was not released to the public the other item was that Mrs shook was shot once in the leg
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this gunshot obviously was not what killed her was the stab wounds that killed her
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but she was shot in the leg and this was not released to the public the interesting thing about this hold
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back information here is we had those cases from 11 years earlier but they're in a different jurisdiction
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they're in the jurisdiction the county to the north of where this double homicide took place
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Sheriff there still very much had on his mind the murder of Donna pounds now a cold case
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in his jurisdiction he reviewed what they put in the papers about the Shooks murder right but
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that hold back information might have been what would tie these two together because he still very much had on his
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mind the ropes that were found tied to the bed post and then down to the bed frame in the pound's home
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he knew that a gun was used in the pound's murder He was unaware that there were bindings
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as well as a gunshot in the shook murder where this sits captain is unfortunately the shook murder
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starts to go cold as well and the people of that County were an uproar they were calling for the sheriff
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for his job they wanted this thing solved who could go into someone's home murder the
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parents leave the children to die there and set the house on fire they wanted this monster [ __ ]
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[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] we're back you filthy True Crime animals Cheers Cheers tall cans in the air
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cheers one more time for the people in the back and when we say people in the back in the garage we mean that's third
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row people in the cheap seats third row is the was the last row we only have three rows so here we go Captain we have
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a desperate Sheriff who's looking for answers in this case that is very quickly going cold a double
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homicide in his County he's desperate looking for answers anywhere that he can find them and we
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have a psychic that I'm not certain if he reached out to the psychic or if the psychic reached out to him and sometimes
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law enforcement does that to get new leads or possible tips or anything one detective that we spoke to said that he
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would do that just for some outside of the box thinking was there some possibility or theory that we've not
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considered not that they're going to put any weight into the psychics Visions or
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thoughts or whatever but maybe it's just some kind of theory that we've not thought of yet regardless of how this
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interaction comes about the psychic tells the sheriff three very interesting things
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one that the killer has some type of injury to his body and I believe that they said like the right side of his
00:26:13
body maybe his leg or his hip testicle that's about as much as they could provide on that first little detail the
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second thing was that the perpetrator was in woodworking or in the furniture business
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in some form or fashion the third and this is the one that really seemed to bother the sheriff
00:26:36
was the psychic told Sheriff die that he would have to wait until September to solve the case
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of course Dai wants to know why the psychic is unable to provide that information right so then the psychic
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has to go to another psychic friend to figure out why well they have a whole network right for
00:26:57
Psychic Network that's right all right Captain this takes us to September 3rd of
00:27:05
1986. what we have here is late on September 3rd we have a married couple who is returning to their home
00:27:14
they get to their house and they see a vehicle parked in their yard well the husband is quite upset about
00:27:21
this nobody likes it when somebody parks on your property that's what the streets
00:27:26
and roads are for he tells his wife you go ahead and go inside I'm going to go over and check out this vehicle he goes
00:27:33
over to the vehicle and inside he sees a man who appears to be sleeping inside the truck
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he goes in and he tells his wife no big deal looks like somebody had way too much to drink and decided our property
00:27:48
will be a good place for them to sleep it off right they're in the home for a little while
00:27:53
he has some things outside on his property I think like a boat and a shed some things that are of concern to him
00:28:00
that he's always voiced to his wife that you know anybody could easily steal my boat if they if they're on the property
00:28:09
or they could get access to the shed so now he's starting to second guess this whole man outside sleeping thing and
00:28:17
they have a relatively big property too I feel like I would call the cops since I don't know the individual yeah well
00:28:24
that's his intent he tells his wife he's like I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna
00:28:28
do two things I'm gonna check on the boat and then I'm going to go over and I'm going to get the license plate number
00:28:35
off of this truck and I'm going to come inside and I'm going to call the sheriff
00:28:39
and say hey there's some dude in his truck on my property could you come and wake up what I'm doing I'm going outside
00:28:45
I'm kidding his information and I'm whooping his ass he goes outside and now the truck is
00:28:53
gone that seems like the result that you want yes so now the husband is outside checking on all of his property checking
00:29:03
the shed checking the boat so on and so forth and he thinks that he sees someone
00:29:09
in the bushes up near the house he says hey who who is this who are you what's going on
00:29:18
and a man comes out of the bushes and says hey it's Wayne from work okay so this guy's name is Doug Wells
00:29:28
he's the homeowner his wife is Chris Wells Doug does not work with Wayne he Doug is a gunsmith
00:29:37
he purchases and repairs guns sells them he's known throughout that area for doing so he's pretty successful at doing
00:29:45
this Wayne from work is Wayne from his wife's work they work together at a furniture
00:29:53
store Chris is the manager there she's the head honcho Wayne works in the warehouse and he's
00:30:01
also one of their best delivery guys delivering furniture Doug knows Wayne a little bit but he
00:30:09
says had this guy not said Wayne from work I wouldn't have put together who it was
00:30:15
so he hears it's hey it's Wayne from work Doug notices that it's Wayne from his wife's work he's like what are you doing
00:30:23
here what are you doing on my property why are you up by my house yeah I'm gonna whoop your ass Wayne says I was
00:30:30
driving by and I thought I saw somebody creeping around on your property so I stopped to check it out wow
00:30:38
Doug is not sure what to make of this mind you he just saw someone in a truck and he saw the person in the truck he's
00:30:47
not yet put it together 100 percent that the person in the truck could have been
00:30:52
Wayne Right Wayne tells him let's go inside we should call the sheriff and get somebody
00:30:59
out here to take a look at this Doug was planning on doing that anyway right Doug says as soon as he turns his back
00:31:07
Wayne must have struck him over the head with something knocks him to the ground
00:31:13
he takes Doug inside now mind you by this point Chris she's been inside for a little bit of time now she's in the
00:31:22
bedroom getting ready for bed it's late at night she hears the commotion she comes running into the room she
00:31:30
recognizes Wayne immediately obviously they've worked together for years Wayne what are you doing she says
00:31:37
he says look I'm in some trouble I've done something I just need some money and I'm going to
00:31:46
get out of town you'll never see me again I know you have keys to the store I know you have access to the safe and I
00:31:53
know how much money is in the building you're going to give me access to that money I want the money and I'll be out
00:32:01
of here Chris has no idea what Wayne's talking about she has no idea what it is that he could
00:32:08
have done has no idea why he would need to flee the area but she does have access to a safe she has access to the
00:32:16
work the work safe she has access to the money and he's right Wayne is right there was a decent sizable amount of
00:32:24
money at the furniture store I'm just saying that tonight if you're working with this guy and he's coming at you and
00:32:30
he says oh well you have a key to safe but you don't and you don't have access for the money then now we got even a
00:32:38
even bigger problem because this guy's a psycho the way that Wayne explains it to
00:32:43
both Doug and Chris is that he just needs to get these keys he might steal their vehicle and he's going to be out
00:32:51
of here he tells them that he's going to need to tie both of them up and he tells them that he's going to tie
00:32:58
them up in different locations of the house because if he ties him up in the same room that they're more likely to
00:33:04
get free or help one another and get free and he needs some time he says once I get to where I'm going I will call
00:33:12
someone and send them to your house and they will you know cut you free this is 86 right this is September of 1986. okay
00:33:21
I let's just point this out that this was done before we've seen this in several cases two that
00:33:30
immediately come to mind are BTK and zodiac right and both of these cases we've seen where the perpetrator says
00:33:38
I'm just going to get some money I just need to steal your car I'm going to tie you up to buy some time yeah
00:33:45
I just need to tie you up so then I can take her to another room to to try to rape her well we hear so often Captain
00:33:53
don't ever get in the car whatever you do whatever they promise you whatever they threaten you with don't get in the
00:33:59
car don't get in the car or the van now we're starting to learn don't let them tie you up no we should already known
00:34:06
that just like when Gacy wants to do the little handcuff trick hey I got the handcuffs now you try it on ah [ __ ] you
00:34:15
[ __ ] you I'm not trying on any handcuffs you want to tie me up suck it I am not
00:34:22
letting you tie me up it's difficult because look these victim's difficult kill me because you're not tying me up
00:34:28
well it's not difficult for you but it's difficult for the victims in these situations because they've seen and
00:34:34
heard and read of times where people are just tied up and left and so in in this
00:34:39
state they they may believe it they just want it to be over with yeah but knowing what we know now
00:34:47
what would you recommend well I just said what I would recommend don't let them tie you up no tying up
00:34:54
what we have here is Nance decides that he is going to tie Doug up downstairs in
00:35:00
the basement he takes Chris down there with them and has Chris Ty dug up then he takes Chris upstairs
00:35:08
to I believe it's a two-story home and takes her to the the upstairs and he's going to tie her up upstairs
00:35:19
now meanwhile what we have going on here is we have Doug who's trying to free himself he's already been hit over the
00:35:28
head a couple of times he's suffering pretty bad he's trying to get free he has no idea
00:35:36
what's going on upstairs but he can still hear and he thinks that Wayne Nance is still in the house this guy
00:35:42
said he's going to leave why is he not in a hurry to leave Wayne must have heard some commotion
00:35:49
because he decides to come back downstairs and he checks on Doug again but this time he picks up a knife and he
00:35:56
sticks it into the the man's chest Jesus Doug said that he could feel the knife go right into his chest and puncture his
00:36:06
lung and he could hear the air come out of his chest that was escaping his lung at this point Doug is pretty certain
00:36:16
that he blacks out he says he comes to a few minutes later at this point a couple of things have
00:36:25
changed one he noticed that Wayne when he went back upstairs this time Wayne did not
00:36:33
close the basement door Doug thinks that this means that Wayne thinks that Doug is dead
00:36:42
right Doug is able to free his hands and then he reaches down and he unties his legs
00:36:50
we already said that Doug is a gunsmith his shop is the basement of his home don't print a knife to a gun fight well
00:36:59
I guess that's that's a detail that I failed to point out Wayne has a gun oh Doug knows this that's part of the
00:37:06
reason that the two of them were tied up in separate locations however we're talking about handing out advice
00:37:13
don't get in the car don't let them tie you up maybe don't break into a gunsmith's home or try to home invasion
00:37:20
at a gunsmith's home yeah and look I know that it's not as simple as just nope you're not going to tie me up
00:37:27
especially when somebody has a knife or have they they have a gun right but it's
00:37:31
like if if they shoot you dead right then like it's probably going to end pretty quickly if they tie you up they
00:37:40
have the ability to torture you or to torture your loved ones all right I don't want anybody getting any advice
00:37:47
from our show I don't want somebody coming at us going well let's just move on let's March forward
00:37:54
well just as a reminder there's beers are flowing so don't listen to anything we're saying we're
00:38:02
just two idiots in a garage yes they won't allow us to leave we're trapped Doug comes too and he picks up one of
00:38:10
the guns that he's been working on and listen to How smart this guy is he says to himself
00:38:18
I only have seconds Doug is an avid Hunter unfortunately he's shot animals in the
00:38:26
chest while out hunting he knows that sometimes a deer might run around for 20 30 seconds afterwards
00:38:34
he tells himself from that experience I've got about 30 seconds and I'm going to die because this guy stabbed me in
00:38:42
the chest he decides he's only got enough time for one bullet in this gun he's got to
00:38:51
load the gun and then go find Wayne and he tells himself I got 30 seconds until I die and I'm taking this guy with me
00:39:00
he puts one bullet in the gun and he decides that whatever's going on upstairs he does not have the strength
00:39:08
or the vision because mind you he's in very bad shape he's close to dying to shoot at Wayne Nance in the same room
00:39:17
as his wife as he will very likely shoot her on accident he decides he's going to
00:39:25
make some noise and make Wayne come to him yeah it makes a little bit of noise he hears the basement door open
00:39:34
and as soon as he spotted Wayne long enough to make sure that it is Wayne and not his wife Chris he pulls the trigger
00:39:43
he puts one in Wayne's chest he goes up the stairs to where Wayne is lying Wayne starts to get up
00:39:55
Doug takes this gun and beats the hell out of Wayne Nance [Music] he keeps hitting him over and over and
00:40:05
over again in the head and neck area kick his ass driving him to the ground driving him to the ground Wayne keeps
00:40:12
trying to get up driving him to the ground eventually Wayne stops moving and now we have Doug and Chris who call
00:40:22
the sheriff's department Sheriff come out they figure out what's going on the the
00:40:28
call is interesting in itself too because Doug is in very bad shape his estimate of I've got about 30 seconds
00:40:36
well he wasn't too far off from that because it was Chris that called the police
00:40:41
she says I need an ambulance here now my husband is dying a man attacked my husband and he's dying right
00:40:49
well of course they want to know how many squad cars and how many ambulances to send to the place and they want to
00:40:55
know what's going on what they're walking into they say to Chris what's going on with the other guy
00:41:01
what's going on with the attacker Chris says I don't care get here and save my husband yeah
00:41:08
well to put a long story short there captain or to shorten my long story Wayne Nance dies and I've read a few
00:41:18
different versions of this I don't know which to be true I think he probably died on the way to the hospital some of
00:41:25
the short versions say he died at the hospital some say he was dead upon arrival regardless we know the result
00:41:31
Wayne Nance attempted to do something very horrible to these people he was attempting to rape Chris Wells
00:41:40
steal some things from the home and kill both of them yeah he's probably gonna light him on fire he was unsuccessful
00:41:47
thankfully in doing so yeah and before he died he looked up at the sky and he put his hands up and said I am Conan the
00:41:55
Barbarian well the thing that was weird here is we have the Sheriff's Department
00:42:02
that they have known all of this time we're talking this is like 12 years later they still have the Donna pounds murder
00:42:10
on their minds right the sheriff the head honcho in charge he knows that Wayne Nance was one of two
00:42:19
prime suspects in Donna pounds's murder they being law enforcement were on record when they were interviewed by the
00:42:28
newspaper the very next morning about you know what happened last night these two people were attacked inside
00:42:37
their home they this man attempted to kill both of them the husband and wife managed to get free and kill the
00:42:44
perpetrator law enforcement said to the newspapers that was like Christmas morning for us this is one of those
00:42:52
times that the good guys won yeah the good guys won and now were they able to connect him more to
00:42:59
the pounds case that's very interesting as said he was one of two prime suspects in that case
00:43:07
so much so that they took that evidence against Wayne Nance to the grand jury that decided not to indict right
00:43:15
what's really interesting was the shook murder case Michael and Teresa the one where the house was set on fire and the
00:43:25
three kids survived what we have going on now this is 10 months later after their murder that
00:43:32
case was starting to go cold police had no leads not much in the way of evidence
00:43:38
either in that case they had this story from the four-year-old who survived who couldn't really tell them anything other
00:43:44
than the man pushed himself into the house and said he was Conan the Barbarian we get a phone call to the Sheriff's
00:43:53
Department from the grandparents the grandparents are now the the surviving children live with the grandparents
00:44:01
the grandfather he heard the news about the attack against the wellses and how this guy worked at a furniture
00:44:11
store worked for Chris they both worked at the furniture store that he tried to kill this couple mm-hmm the grandfather
00:44:19
remembers the Shooks purchased Furniture shortly before they were killed in fact he helped them pay for it
00:44:30
so he knew where it was purchased from it was purchased from the same furniture store that Chris worked at that Wayne
00:44:37
Nance worked at and it was later determined that Wayne Nance was in fact the delivery driver of that furniture
00:44:46
that's where that little boy Luke had seen the man before but couldn't place the win or where or why
00:44:55
police did a follow-up investigation because now we have a dead suspect a guy who has been killed in the commission of
00:45:04
trying to commit further murder he's a suspect in several Murders At this point they search his home where he was still
00:45:11
living with his father at this point his mother's already passed away from that car accident that we talked about
00:45:17
earlier they find stolen items from the shook family home in Wayne Nance's room and these were items that were pretty
00:45:28
much one of a kind pretty rare items yeah these weren't just common household goods got him they
00:45:35
were able to find things from Donna pounds's home inside his room as well right so what Doug and Chris did not
00:45:44
only did they save their own lives they probably saved future lives of this serial killer who was going about his
00:45:53
killing business undetected but they also helped to solve this shook murder case double homicide and the now
00:46:01
very cold Donna pounds case all right but what about the other cases that you have talked about
00:46:08
well it's interesting here Captain because there was a lot of thought put into the possibilities with Wayne Nance
00:46:15
unfortunately we have a dead suspect in these other cases and we've seen this so
00:46:21
many times these serial killers they are a weird breed where we get them we lock them up and
00:46:28
sometimes they spill their guts and they sing like a bird and they tell us all kinds of stuff they tell us all kinds of
00:46:34
stories some of them true some of them false they claim numbers that they have not achieved as far as killing goes they
00:46:42
other times they shut down and don't say that they don't admit to anything with this case we're left to speculate
00:46:50
and our friends out in Quantico the FBI profilers they were very interested in the possibilities of Wayne Nance
00:47:00
they had speculated that he probably killed five-year-old Siobhan McGinnis and there were several thoughts put into
00:47:09
this Theory one that she was an easy vulnerable victim that it was part of his process of
00:47:19
becoming the serial killer it would have been unfortunately a low risk victim for someone like Nance who
00:47:28
wanted to try his hand at killing for several reasons one she's very young she likely didn't know Wayne Nance and
00:47:37
if he attempted to do anything she wouldn't be able to identify him if she survived also she's only five so she
00:47:44
doesn't put up much of a fight there's the another theory involving the possibility of Wayne Nance killing
00:47:53
Siobhan McGinnis and the thought was that maybe he was into killing kids and that his Target
00:48:04
two months later was not Donna pounds but he had been watching the house and maybe the 12 year old daughter Kathy was
00:48:13
his actual Target but Donna pounds came home before Kathy did and he decided to attack and kill
00:48:23
her the FBI has talked about this quite a bit and Roy Hazelwood who I'm a big fan
00:48:30
of he's written several very good books he put forth a couple of theories about Wayne Nance's potential involvement in
00:48:38
the Siobhan McGinnis case however in 2008 we find out through DNA analysis found on Siobhan McGinnis that Wayne
00:48:50
Nance is not responsible for her murder so it looks like Donna pounds was in fact his Target on that day yeah it
00:49:00
seems like part of his sexual fantasy was an individual that he knew that possibly was maybe a little bit older
00:49:08
than he was or somebody in an authority figure yeah it appears that he became infatuated with these women with these
00:49:17
three targets now he's tied to several other cases and we did discuss the possibility that the unknown killer at
00:49:26
the time back in 74 might have been responsible for the murder of Clifford and Linda Barnhart that took place in
00:49:35
Billings Montana five hours away very weird here Captain it was just last year that they were able to find the
00:49:47
killer of the barn Hearts all of these years later in 2019 authorities identified the killer of the barn Hearts
00:49:58
as Cecil Stan Caldwell he was a co-worker of Linda Barnhart who died in 2003 at the age of 59. Cardwell
00:50:09
had no arrest record it turns out that it looks like Cecil Stan Caldwell was the unknown dinner guest
00:50:19
for that night at the Barnhart house and what about these other Jane does yeah in the trailer we
00:50:26
discussed two Jane does we talked about Christy Crystal Creek and another Jane Doe that was named Debbie Deer Creek
00:50:34
well in the course of about five years from 1980 to 1985 there were three unidentified women found close to the
00:50:46
city of Missoula one found in 1980 one in 84 one in 85. all of these victims were determined to
00:50:56
be murdered they were unidentified Remains the first victim was found in January of 1980 and she was dubbed Betty
00:51:05
beavertail eventually she was identified but they've not been able to determine who killed her or put her in that
00:51:14
location a second body was found in 1984 and she was the one that they labeled as
00:51:21
Debbie Deer Creek the third body was that of Christy Crystal Creek found in 1985. it took many many years Captain
00:51:33
but they were able to identify Debbie Deer Creek as being Sherry Bachmann she was about 16 years old when she ran
00:51:45
away from home and it's believed that she hitchhiked her way into the area where she falls into our case is there
00:51:54
was this mysterious girl that was not from the area way back when living with Wayne Nance for a brief period of time
00:52:01
going by the name of Robin after this unidentified woman was identified as Sherry Bachmann and
00:52:11
pictures were released to the public featuring her sitting next to Wayne Nance many people came forward and said hey we
00:52:21
know this girl that was named Robin that was living with Wayne for several weeks
00:52:27
and then all of a sudden she was gone one day and when asked what happened to your
00:52:31
girlfriend Robin who you seemed so serious with Wayne had a different story for each
00:52:37
person that asked him that question what happened to Robin where'd she go did you guys break up he
00:52:43
had a different story for each one so Wayne Nance is pretty firmly believed to be responsible for the death of Sherry
00:52:51
Bachmann once named Debbie Deer Creek where our case stands today is that we still need to know the identity of
00:53:01
Christy Crystal Creek she was found in Missoula Montana she was shot to death she was found on September 9
00:53:11
1985. anyone with any additional information regarding the identity of this person or
00:53:20
to request additional information please contact the Missoula County Sheriff's Office at
00:53:28
406-258-3348 or the FBI violent criminal apprehension program at 800-634-4097 thank you
00:53:46
[Music] I want to thank everybody so much for sharing on social media Colonel do we
00:53:54
have any recommended reading for this week yes we do Captain this week we are recommending to kill and kill Again by
00:54:01
John Colston to kill and kill again reveals the disturbing compulsions of a Charming serial killer who fooled nearly
00:54:09
everyone he knew check out that great title and many others at truecrime garage.com and click on the recommended
00:54:17
page and I recommend that you join us back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't let it
00:54:28
foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]