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[Music] [Applause] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that told me last week Nick you had a couple of brain
00:01:51
farts but thank God I didn't hear them he is the captain I might not have heard them but I smelt them it's good to be
00:01:58
seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking Presumed
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Crime garage and this great Texas beer was brought to us by our friends right here first up we have Shannon and Haley
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everybody for going to True Crim garage.com and helping us out with this week's show want to encourage everybody
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to go check out the website check out our blog and check out the store Page and you can check out all of our old
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episodes for free if you download the Stitcher app and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather
00:03:18
around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] on December 23rd
00:03:38
1974 Rachel trila Renee Wilson and Julianne Mosley set out on a shopping trip to purchase Christmas gifts for
00:03:46
their friends and family they drove off to South Fort Worth Texas to a shopping mall Rachel the oldest of the three
00:03:54
parked her car in the upper level near the Sears store the three girls were supposed to be home by 400 p.m. but they
00:04:01
never returned later a letter arrived saying the girls took off to get away for a week or so the families early on
00:04:10
strongly believed Foul Play was involved and as the slow days stretched into long
00:04:16
years the puzzle remained unsolved what happened to these girls and why now one thing's for sure says Rayanne Mosley the
00:04:25
mother of the youngest missing girl that somebody knows something somebody knows
00:04:30
for sure what happened to these girls so Captain let's talk about some suspects here there are some interesting ones now
00:04:40
I do want to state that publicly the law enforcement involved throughout the years has been a little Cy let's say
00:04:47
that's a good word as to whether there are actual suspects and what I mean by that is in
00:04:54
1974 in December when they went missing we have several news articles where the police police state publicly we have no
00:05:02
suspects then we have uh a year or two later where we have them stating publicly well we've narrowed it down
00:05:10
after speaking and following hundreds of leads interviewing people and such our investigation this is what we've come up
00:05:16
with we've narrowed it down to less than five individual suspects MH and then I believe was 1981 when we hear that law
00:05:24
enforcement is strongly considering the following theory that multiple persons were in involved in the Abduction of all
00:05:31
three girls and that all three girls are now deceased abducted by a group maybe as many as Five Guys and it's likely one
00:05:40
of the girls knew and or probably trusted one of the abductors mhm so I think we can see that it they were
00:05:51
working that angle for several reasons we discussed on yesterday's show the different eyewitness accounts and some
00:05:58
of those they reference men or a group of men um so I see why they're saying that we're working that
00:06:05
angle and work that angle at some point in this investigation well even if there
00:06:10
wasn't any eyewitnesses we we could assume that it'd be easier to abduct these three if there's more than one
00:06:19
individual and where they abduct were abducted from being a mall you know a very public location yes you would you
00:06:28
would need to Corral the girls quickly into some type of vehicle or Vehicles you know we saw in the eyewitness
00:06:34
accounts multiple Vehicles being mentioned from different eyewitnesses maybe all these vehicles mentioned by
00:06:41
different eyewitnesses were involved so let's get into something that we've been
00:06:44
talking a lot about on our other show off the Record you know lately we've discussed the West Memphis 3 case quite
00:06:51
a bit and the thought that that we've discussed here is is the real killer in that case a known suspect or an unknown
00:07:00
suspect meaning a known suspect would be somebody where we know their name because either a they are suspected by
00:07:10
police Media or general public right or B someone's name that has come up somewhere within the story or the case
00:07:18
itself that their name appears in the case file for any number of reasons you know whether they're a neighbor parent
00:07:25
uncle or identified by description you know like the man at the Bojangles restaurant would be an example of that
00:07:32
then we have the thought of an unknown suspect this is someone whose name and or description is not known to police
00:07:40
Media or general public someone whose name would not be found in the case File here in this case we have some known
00:07:47
characters did they have involvement was there someone or some ones that were up
00:07:52
to no good or planning an abduction or murder this would be someone close to the victims
00:08:00
or was it a stranger someone that spotted the girls in the mall or in the parking lot and decided to abduct them
00:08:07
so let's look at known suspects let's say all right so Thomas or Tommy tril Rachel's husband a lot of people have
00:08:15
questioned this dude because I think when examining the situation there are some things that could stand out that
00:08:23
that would say well maybe there there's a motive here or are motives here right uh we should also include Deborah now
00:08:31
Deborah is Rachel's older sister Deborah was 19 on the day that uh the day in question so she was 2 years older than
00:08:39
Rachel Tommy then only 21 years old at the time of The Disappearance had already lost both of his parents and was
00:08:48
was a divorced father of a 2-year-old son he and Rachel had been married only about 6 months so people point out that
00:08:58
uh she is only in high school and was 16 at the time of their marriage uh people
00:09:04
point out that that is weird I don't know how that maybe it is weird but I don't know how it leads to
00:09:10
Triple homicide MH now past the age difference one thing that often stands out and many people point to this right
00:09:19
here is that Tommy and Debra Rachel's older sister were previously in a relationship together they were even
00:09:29
engaged for a short period of time as a matter of fact we know that that's how Rachel would end up meeting Tommy and
00:09:38
later they're married that's weird that's weird yes so and and then to further that theory along and what I'm
00:09:46
getting at is that either Deborah was somehow guilty of something or Tommy is guilty or they both together
00:09:55
were involved in in The Disappearance of these three girls but to further that Theory along we have that
00:10:02
Deborah prior to The Disappearance of the three girls had an argument with her boyfriend and she did she moved in with
00:10:09
her little sister and Tommy for a short stay with the newlyweds so some have suggested one or both Deborah and Tommy
00:10:17
Were Somehow involved uh in this case and that they were having some kind of secret relationship mhm now Deborah says
00:10:27
that out of all of the bad things that has happened to her in different po periods of her life The Disappearance of
00:10:34
her sister is by far the worst thing and when she's looking back she says quote we had a special bond according to
00:10:44
Deborah both girls were afraid of their father uh she says their father had a hot temper now he was also a sick man
00:10:52
who was dying of cancer at the time of The Disappearance and was buried that summer after the girl's disappeared
00:11:00
Deborah recalls that Rachel woke her that morning of The Disappearance and asked her to go shopping so we mentioned
00:11:07
this in yesterday's show that we have other individuals that were asked to go on the shopping trip that didn't
00:11:13
participate for whatever reason right Tommy being one of them no Terry being one of them okay sorry I keep getting
00:11:21
the the middle one's boyfriend and the oldest one's husband confused so what what's strange here though is we have
00:11:29
Deborah Who falls under the public eye suspicion yet she is somebody that was asked to go on the shopping trip and she
00:11:38
does not go she says she was not feeling well that day she stayed home in bed instead and Deborah was there was still
00:11:45
staying at that home the next morning when Tommy retrieved the letter out of the mailbox well I think the other thing
00:11:51
that's weird here is if Tommy was planning to get rid of his wife so then he could be with his wife's
00:12:02
sister then you have a scenario where his wife or the his mistress was asked to go on the shopping trip you know now
00:12:12
we have uh Rene's boyfriend Terry was asked to go on the shopping trip and then it's
00:12:20
like it's it just seems like a bad time if you're going to try to uh you know kill this person and get them out of
00:12:29
your life that you're going to do so one in a public place which is maybe not so
00:12:34
weird because you are married to her but she's going to be with multiple people right and if she's with multiple people
00:12:41
it's like so now you're going to kill three people to take care of this problem you know it seems like the
00:12:48
motive isn't strong enough for that I agree and that's why yesterday I brought up you know who is the target when you
00:12:56
have multiple individuals together when you have a group of people together that
00:13:00
are abducted or killed who is the target were all three of them a Target or was one of them specifically targeted for a
00:13:08
specific reason and like you just pointed out Captain if let's go through this motive for a second because to me
00:13:15
it just it's flimsy it's so damn flimsy because if he wanted to knock off his wife if if for some reason you're like
00:13:26
okay well this is the best time to do this oh snap she's got two other people joining her on the shopping trip well
00:13:34
I'm just going to do it at another time right I'm not going to I'm not going to go out and abduct and kill three people
00:13:41
because I'm trying to get rid of one I'm just going to do it at another time and
00:13:45
same goes for Deborah if she felt the same way she would just do it at another time the other thing too if the two were
00:13:52
involved together if the two if Deborah and Tommy wanted the sister out of the picture mhm you would think they could
00:14:00
orchestrate a better plan than this like you said abducting multiple people from a public
00:14:07
place very very risky business I just but we also have the we have possible DNA on the letter that was sent and it
00:14:15
didn't match Tommy we don't know that it didn't match Tommy what we do know is it
00:14:20
doesn't match anybody in quote unquote their database we don't know who is sitting in that database it doesn't mean
00:14:27
everybody on the planet is in there so we do have years later we have the words of Tommy we have the words of Deborah we
00:14:35
have Tommy who says look there was no uneasiness between uh anything going on there you
00:14:43
know there wasn't it wasn't weird that her sister that I was once engaged to came to stay with us for a short period
00:14:50
of time just because on the outside looking in it seems weird to everybody it didn't seem weird to Tommy well so
00:14:58
he's stating for the record that there wasn't they weren't having a affair or anything and and Deborah States the same
00:15:05
thing says that she insists that the romance was long over of course it would have to be I mean in order to marry her
00:15:12
sister I mean like you know at some point like and for them to be they're still friends you know the sister still
00:15:21
being friends you would think that would have to be dead and gone on on both ends
00:15:26
right but you know it's even even more interesting and I think that backs us up a little bit and of course if you
00:15:32
consider these two people to be suspects then yes you're hearing it from the suspect's mouths themselves but in an
00:15:39
interview Deborah she she says look it yeah this wasn't the relationship that I had with Tommy before my sister married
00:15:49
her it was not a serious relationship then the interviewer says well I thought you were engaged and see she outwardly
00:15:55
says yes we had been engaged if you want to call it that but it she didn't consider it a real engagement right and
00:16:03
she like kind of says it waving it off and rolling her eyes as she's doing the interview yeah but yeah again I mean how
00:16:11
many times have we done kind of silly things as we're as younger adults or just teenagers and went now looking back
00:16:19
on it a couple years ago that was silly and we don't know the full extent of it I love that these I love these people
00:16:26
and I look look I shouldn't I shouldn't go off on uh and Witch Hunt anybody here
00:16:32
because spe bir you can do whatever speculating about cases and suspects is what you and I do so I shouldn't get on
00:16:38
to anybody else for doing that the only thing that I have a bit of an issue with
00:16:42
is that I think that sometimes people stumble upon bad information in a case and then they use it to back up their
00:16:49
point or their Theory right and what I mean by this is I saw several people that that were suggesting that Deborah
00:16:57
and or Tommy should be big time suspects in this case because once they they were
00:17:03
they were engaged together then he goes off in Mary's Rachel then Rachel disappears and then Deborah and Tommy
00:17:10
end up married together and have a kid together that was the ammunition that people were using to back up that theory
00:17:18
the problem with that theory and with that ammunition is Tommy and Deborah never got married they never had a child
00:17:26
together right what happened what what happened in real life was that Tommy moved away there was
00:17:33
some bitterness between him and Rachel's family after The Disappearance he moved
00:17:39
away he still lives in Texas to this day I know who he works for and I can't think of give him give away all his
00:17:47
information well he's he is married so I can see where where people get that wrong that he married Deborah he is
00:17:54
married and he went on to have a family he lives elsewhere in Texas I don't get the vibe from what I could find about
00:18:00
him I didn't get the vibe that he's running from anything right well well he could be running from their family on
00:18:07
some level but you know their daughter goes missing he is somewhat a suspect he has to be a suspect right I mean cuz the
00:18:15
husband always did it mhm and they might have been throwing some shade at him and
00:18:20
he just was like you know at some point you have to move on with your life right
00:18:25
right and so let's talk uh about the little brother of these two girls Rusty so we were talking about Rachel and her
00:18:35
older sister Deborah and well the two of them have a younger brother Rusty now Rusty says that the letter the letter
00:18:43
that we discussed yesterday holds particular interest regarding the case for him okay he is certain that Rachel
00:18:52
did not write that letter Rusty at the time at one time said publicly that he was sure that r Rachel and only Rachel
00:19:01
is still alive and that it is only a matter of time perhaps even days before he finds her according to Rusty
00:19:10
following The Disappearance there were several reports that the two older girls had been spotted at different locations
00:19:17
and he references the 17 and the 14y old yeah he references a gas station a Walmart uh a country store and I think
00:19:26
he actually references more places than that but he says that initially in the early portions of the the case in the
00:19:35
first couple years he dismissed these reports as as a sham uh in in the beginning but he
00:19:43
became convinced that these were genuine sightings after meeting a private investigator by the name of Dan
00:19:52
James hold on go ahead sorry I I I want I'm trying to follow your story and nor when you're telling parts of the story
00:20:00
I'm picturing things I'm having a hard time right now so we have they go missing in 74 there's a bunch of reports
00:20:10
eyewitness sightings right right the brother doesn't believe that the letter was
00:20:17
written by Rachel right believes that she's alive but the other two are not and when does this private investigator
00:20:25
come into the picture Okay so met him 20 years later in 1995 okay so this is 20 years later right okay so that's what's
00:20:36
Difficult about this case okay all right and we have Dan James the private investigator as well as Rusty Arnold who
00:20:43
is the brother of one of the missing girls we have these two individuals stating that there are multiple
00:20:50
sightings of the two older girls at different locations yeah and then later on we're going to hear the brothers say
00:20:59
that only Rachel was alive and that there had been continued sightings of Rachel and only Rachel so all right we
00:21:08
said that he became convinced of these sightings that they were real after meeting private investigator Dan James
00:21:14
uh we just said that they met in 1995 when they met Dan tells Rusty that he's been following the case since
00:21:22
1975 right now technically the private investigator was never hired by any of The Three Families James has stated
00:21:31
publicly that he hasn't received a penny in compensation for his work according to James what he has received is death
00:21:39
threats from Anonymous callers warning him away from the case now according to James several quote this is his words
00:21:48
credible Witnesses end quote say they've spotted Rachel since The Disappearance he says one was in 1998 around Christmas
00:21:58
now private investigator James believes that Rachel visits Fort Worth during the
00:22:02
Christmas season each year and maintains that someone is quote shrouding and Manufacturing evidence and what he says
00:22:12
was at first an effort to keep the two older girls away now he thinks only Rachel survives he says I believe that
00:22:20
Renee Wilson is not alive I believe that something dreadfully wrong and probably
00:22:26
fatally occurred in involving julieanne Mosley he says he is evasive about what he thinks happened or who he believes
00:22:35
can be held accountable so yes he has a theory no he won't discuss it except to say that someone
00:22:44
close to one of the girls had something to do with The Disappearance all right okay I'm just trying to wrap my head
00:22:52
around this idea so all three girls go missing there's side in he doesn't believe these sightings at first 20
00:23:00
years later he starts believing these sightings are correct keep in mind the private investigator apparently has
00:23:05
believed these sightings the entire time right so after meeting the private investigator this guy has convinced him
00:23:13
convinced the brother that these sightings are real mhm so this private investigator probably has some other
00:23:20
theories that he's probably convinced him on and I don't know what these theories are but the fact that some
00:23:28
there's somebody that's still responsible for their abduction mhm but two of them are dead
00:23:36
one's still alive and she comes back to town every Christmas yeah okay so is she coming
00:23:46
back to town with somebody is she still did they take all three girls hold them captive and they've just let her live
00:23:57
and the other ones they didn't let live or well is she just roaming the streets of Fort Worth by herself so Dan
00:24:07
James the private investigator is pretty cryptic about his theory right because he doesn't want to sound like a cuckoo
00:24:13
bird but from sitting through multiple interviews with him and piecing together his words here's what I can tell you
00:24:21
that that I believe that he believes is that all three girls were abducted by some some that knew at least one of the
00:24:29
girls okay okay that was close to at least one of the girls with the idea that the two older girls were the Target
00:24:38
that they would be kept alive for whatever reason right so under this Theory my guess would be that the the
00:24:45
believed abductor that was close to quote unquote one of the victims probably would have been close to either
00:24:52
Renee or Rachel one of the two older girls right because those apparently were the Target and and Julianne Mosley
00:24:59
just happen to be there and he states that under this theory that something dreadfully wrong fatality MH happened to
00:25:08
the young girl that during the course of either abducting these girls or or holding them that something unplanned
00:25:14
happened to the young girl and she died fairly early on into being held captive or being part of whatever this weird
00:25:23
situation is right then if we continue on down the road of the theory is that the two older girls were alive for some
00:25:31
period of time because he believes they were seen together at different locations again but right right right
00:25:36
but that still points to the idea that they were abducted and the abductor was like hey you you know like let them free
00:25:45
or was in the car while they went into a gas station I mean that's risky well and
00:25:50
then but then on top of that the the theory goes that at some point only Rachel is alive the oldest of the three
00:25:57
right right you know that so 20 years later 21 years later however you want to look at it that that's where that that
00:26:04
stands that that he has reason to believe this private investigator and Rusty believes him Rusty States publicly
00:26:11
that this is not just Dan james' Theory this is my theory as well now what happens here is this tears the Arnold
00:26:19
Family apart we have Rusty and Deborah brother and sister who spent a good amount of time looking for their sister
00:26:27
together when were younger and as they grew up and Grew Older it apparently it it looks like Rusty with the help of Dan
00:26:34
James became suspicious of his own sister Deborah because she says publicly in regards to Dan James she says I know
00:26:42
he blames me I know he thinks I had something to do with it and and talking about her brother she says Rusty thinks
00:26:49
that this letter that Tommy got the next day he thinks I wrote it and she says I
00:26:54
didn't write the letter I don't know who did I don't know what happened to to my
00:26:58
sister I have nothing to hide yeah possibly but we've seen this in cases where somebody comes in and investigates
00:27:04
whether it's a author or a private investigator I mean he he's calling himself a private investigator but we
00:27:10
don't know why he's doing this he's not getting paid so he's just really fascinated by the case or is he going to
00:27:17
use this research later for a book or whatever so to have her not for Deborah not to trust him I get that part we she
00:27:27
might just be assuming this is what uh Rusty believes you see what I mean no he's Rusty has stated publicly um not
00:27:36
mentioned his sister well you should have said that part well I I I kind of did I said Dan James believes this
00:27:43
should have been paying attention that that Dan James believes that someone close to one of the victims M was
00:27:50
involved in the abduction there is evidence to suggest that Dan James and Rusty Arnold the brother believe that
00:27:57
Deborah was possibly involved in this abduction yeah it's so crazy and we have to remember like uh
00:28:05
and the meline McAn MH did I say that correctly finally finally um than a year and a half later uh and then like in the
00:28:14
M Mara Murray case Brian Schaefer case even the recent case that we covered Molly tibits there are eyewitness
00:28:22
accounts of seeing each individual mhm and normally those eyewitness accounts produce nothing or in the case
00:28:30
of like Molly Tibbits there was actually a lot of eyewitness sightings and we know that those were not true right so
00:28:39
um but it's so strange to me and I I think we should pause here for a second because I mean just put this in
00:28:45
perspective we have three people going missing but we have multiple eyewitnesses that see them family
00:28:51
members believe those eyewitness sightings are actually real one family member member but also a private investigator
00:29:01
correct and and that means the abductor on some level is letting them roam was it of abduction as much as like
00:29:11
you would think like if you had the opportunity to go into a gas station you'd be like hey
00:29:16
help me mhm I mean we've seen it time and time again where that's not always the case
00:29:23
but they're seen multiple times together and then later just only Rachel being seen mhm and then she comes back for
00:29:33
Christmas right I mean that's strange this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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birthday it's it's his birthday week birthday month or what he likes to say his birthday year Well we should what we
00:32:07
should mention here Captain is is another sad part of the story is not only do we have these missing kids and
00:32:14
then all these years later still missing but what we have is the aftermath and what the suspicion caused throughout
00:32:22
these different families or just the just having a missing child has torn apart some of these families
00:32:30
right okay and I won't get into the specifics of all of them but let's let's focus in on the Arnold family for a
00:32:36
minute because we've been talking about the obvious signs of problems that we're
00:32:40
going to have within the Arnold family so Rachel Arnold who disappeared we have her older sister Deborah that some
00:32:47
people have suspected could know more about what happened or maybe had some involvement and it appears that even her
00:32:54
younger brother Rusty Arnold was a person not only believing that but also driving that theory uh and getting
00:33:02
everybody else to believe it as well yeah now we mentioned Fran Langston earlier she's the mother of these three
00:33:10
and she blames private investigator Dan James for quote poisoning Rusty's mind uh she says that her family has been
00:33:19
destroyed because of Dan James's accusations regarding uh possible involvement by Deborah now this
00:33:28
does regardless of how crazy this Theory could be and I do want to point this out
00:33:33
you know we there are cases out there where somebody takes somebody captive and keeps them for a very long time
00:33:41
cases where they let them go out into public or go out with them I've even I can't remember the name of the offender
00:33:47
or the victim but I can even recall a case where the victim who was abducted who was being held captive was allowed
00:33:54
to go home and see her family at one point and then return to being held captive it's strange it's hard to wrap
00:34:02
your mind around it but it happens yeah that's called marriage well and then of course we know
00:34:10
more from a local case here Cleveland Ohio where an individual took girls captive and held them for like over 12
00:34:19
years before one of them escaped and this guy invited people into his home he would have guests over to his home he
00:34:26
like to entertain well he was a musician he would let his friends come over they
00:34:30
would do their band practice at his home anyway so it does happen it's hard to get your mind around it but this Theory
00:34:36
as crazy as it seems could happen but it does bring up and it raises an interesting and hopeful question are any
00:34:45
of these girls still alive yeah you know you have to wonder that the Weir well like I said before some of the
00:34:51
eyewitness accounts and cases are are completely bogus but you have to follow all those leads but I mean I kind of
00:34:59
jokingly said that I mean that's super creepy but what if you know around the Christmas time every year Whoever has
00:35:07
Rachel is letting her go home well not home we know it's not home per se but to Fort Worth right going to her hometown
00:35:17
you know she we don't have any accusations of visiting family members but the thought that Dan James believes
00:35:24
is that she returns to the Fort Worth area for some reason around Christmas time each year could that be some kind
00:35:30
of reward by the captor like you know if you're if you're good all of these other
00:35:35
days of the year right you're granted this one thing you know there's it unfortunately it happens they brainwash
00:35:42
these these uh prisoners right but you think if that is happening or if they actually believe that then they would be
00:35:51
doing a lot of things around that time to put up flyers and this is what she could look like she has been known to
00:36:00
visit this area and maybe they could get her why she came to visit well one thing
00:36:06
I should point out that I believe here Captain is Rusty Arnold okay where where we have his family saying look his
00:36:14
thoughts his accusations his theories regarding this case has destroyed our family I agree with that 100% but what I
00:36:22
also agree with and we'll have Rusty's back on is I see him furthering the investigation and keeping the
00:36:29
investigation of his disappeared missing sister alive all these years later it might be the wrong tactic it might be in
00:36:37
po taste it might it might be the wrong Theory it might be the wrong theory yes you're exactly right and but it it does
00:36:43
keep the case alive he is furthering the investigation and doing what John Walsh
00:36:49
always says you should do keep your loved ones memory and image in the public eye in the new newspapers on the
00:36:57
TV yes and it's weird with this private investigator because it's you want to know his motives you know because he is
00:37:05
not he's not getting paid yeah but I I don't think that the general public has a good understanding of what most
00:37:13
private investigators do for a living so you're you're kind of like a you're a contracted worker you're you're somebody
00:37:20
that sits around and waits for the phone to ring uh or get a click on your website uh so you could go investigate a
00:37:28
fraud or a cheating spouse or any number of cases you know we've seen criminal cases where we have uh victims families
00:37:37
hire private investigators it happens all the time yeah or if your co-host wants to go off and do a show with
00:37:43
Generation Y but might want to call a private investigator okay but uh anyway so but the thing that I don't think that
00:37:53
the general public understands is that when when a private investigator is not working a case is not being paid to work
00:38:00
a case often you know you could do anything with your time but what some of them will do is they will pick a case
00:38:07
that's local to them and they'll say oh there's a reward in this case there's it
00:38:13
$50,000 to to to reward somebody for information regarding this missing person or $60,000 reward for the
00:38:23
apprehension of this suspect who looks like this so what they do is when they are not being paid for a specific case
00:38:31
some of them will pick up on local cases that have reward money and actively work
00:38:36
those in their downtime at the chance of catching catching some something it's almost like a lottery ticket essentially
00:38:44
one thing that's somewhat tied to this possibility of the girls still being alive or one of them being alive is we
00:38:51
did have a situation in this case throughout the years where a lady caller and I have to apologize to you captain
00:38:58
and all the good garage people out there all right my notes are incomplete on this story but what occurred was we have
00:39:05
a lady caller that reached out to one of the victim's mothers and they had several phone calls throughout weeks and
00:39:13
maybe months MH which led to the two of them meeting together in person now the lady caller insisted that she was one of
00:39:20
the missing girls that she was the daughter of the woman that she was contacting what I'm apologizing for is I
00:39:26
don't remember which daughter she was claiming to be or which mother she was calling right unfortunately two of the
00:39:32
three mothers have passed away as of this date of our recording um but regardless she contacted one of them
00:39:40
okay so you have this um nutty person right and she's calling the one of the missing girls
00:39:48
mothers and stating that she's one of the missing girls correct okay continue well they meet and at the insistence of
00:39:57
someone I don't know if it was the missing girl's mother or somebody in the missing Girl's family right the person
00:40:04
that was calling uh was subjected to a DNA test and it was determined that they were not who they were claiming to be so
00:40:12
this is years I'm I'm assuming this is years and years later yeah yeah because it because you know you would think at
00:40:19
some point if it were shortly after you'd be able to look at the individual and go nope you're not you're not Renee
00:40:25
you're not uh Julianne um I think this was right but I think this could have been 25 maybe even 30 years after the
00:40:33
fact I believe two of the three uh victim's mothers passed away within the last five years what kind of Dick NOS do
00:40:41
you got to be I mean who does that scam artist 20 later yeah giant dick NOS dick nose so big you
00:40:53
can't even fit through doors so do we have other possible suspects and and the answer is yes yes we do and I believe
00:41:01
much better suspects than what we have discussed so far I want to be clear about as far as Deborah and Tommy go uh
00:41:09
individuals that were related to victims as far as them being suspects all that I could find that's in the
00:41:16
Public's eye that's on these website forums it's not never been any law enforcement stating that either of these
00:41:23
two are suspected of anything and furthermore we have the Charlie project that states in all three cases we've
00:41:30
classified this we believe it to be a non-family abduction much better suspects let's talk about this now
00:41:37
obviously we know that there were there was an active serial killer or killers in Texas in the 70s we have the Texas
00:41:45
Killing Field case was starting up in the 1970s and normally I would red flag something like that and go into it here
00:41:54
unfortunately that's a huge case that would take up way too much time and there likely or at least I believe there
00:42:02
is not a strong connection with the exception of of a couple of items okay the first thing
00:42:09
that I would would take into consideration Texas is a larger than larger State than almost every state in
00:42:16
the United States right yeah so that alone makes the connection to the missing Fort Worth Trio case even less
00:42:24
likely but some things of interest in that case that should be noted so the girls abducted and killed in the early
00:42:32
70s in The Killing Fields case ages 12 years old to 19 years old most of them 14 so age of the victim fits our
00:42:42
victimology here all were abducted without a man or boy present and on three times two girls were taken at the
00:42:50
same time so multiple persons abducted at once and there was a break in the action down in The Killing Fields case
00:42:58
there are no known victims from the end of September 1974 to the beginning of May 1977 so did the killer or Killers
00:43:08
move away relocate for work did they end up for some reason in the greater Fort Worth Texas area and taking three girls
00:43:16
from a mall parking lot in December of 1974 the other thing too is some of the later believed victims in The Killing
00:43:25
Fields were never found which is of course the case with the missing Fort Worth Trio I did look at other known
00:43:34
Cals and I looked at the ones where the victimology was a good fit for this case
00:43:39
for the Trio's disappearance but all of the ones that I could find either they were locked up at the time they were not
00:43:45
in the area at the time or would have been too young of an age at the time but wait I did find one I found one so this
00:43:55
guy is not completely unknown but this is not an easy to find person and it is speculative okay so the individual is
00:44:06
named Lloyd Lee Welch Jr he goes by Mike Welch was convicted in the state of Delaware in 1997 for sexually assaulting
00:44:15
a 10-year-old girl he has a lengthier criminal record than that including burglaries and other charges against
00:44:22
children but for the sake of time here captain we're not going to go into all of that what's what's important here is
00:44:29
how do we get him to be involved in this case that took place all the way in Texas we have September
00:44:36
2017 Welch who is in his early 60s of as of last year he pled guilty to the first-degree murder of 12-year-old
00:44:45
Sheila and 10-year-old Katherine Lions who were taken from or taken just shortly after leaving the Wheaten
00:44:53
Shopping Plaza in the state of Maryland in March of 1975 how does that bring us to our
00:45:00
case well Lloyd Welch was a known Drifter and he was employed as a ride operator at a traveling Carnival he has
00:45:09
had multiple convictions for sexual offenses against young girls from the years of 1974 to
00:45:16
1997 Welch was in at least two dozen locations including Washington DC and Texas in fact in January Ary of
00:45:27
1974 he was confirmed to have been in Austin Texas then in March of 1975 he was confirmed to have been in
00:45:36
Wheaten Maryland It is believed he was in Texas from January of 74 until sometime early
00:45:45
1975 he was in both areas at the time all of these girls went missing from a shopping mall with Welch being a Drifter
00:45:54
and traveling with a caral Carval for his job it is possible he was in Texas in December of
00:46:00
1974 as a Drifter obviously it makes sense he would have remained under the radar for years and years police are
00:46:08
also looking for information on any security guards who would have worked at either Mall including information on
00:46:16
Welch's longtime girlfriend Helen Craver they dated for like 10 years most of it
00:46:23
spanning over the 1970s they were always on the road and had no permanent home or
00:46:28
address Helen is noted to have worked as Mall security from time to time which would go with that eyewitness report
00:46:37
right and now I do want to you know kind of Breeze through that real quickly here
00:46:41
but we're talking about an individual that many many many years later just last year he pled guilty to first-degree
00:46:50
murder of two girls about the same age as the victims that we're talking about here who he abducted either from a mall
00:46:58
or shortly after leaving a mall way back in 1975 yeah it just seems like in this
00:47:04
Theory there's there's too many dots connecting to not be somebody that we should be looking into yeah and if
00:47:12
you're wondering hey he he confessed to this crime he plad guilty to this double
00:47:19
homicide from 1975 what's holding him back from telling law enforcement that he was
00:47:24
involved in the missing Trio case um one Texas has the death penalty and they have a pretty quick route to getting
00:47:33
there as well so that would deter him from doing that number one number two this guy's confession is the most
00:47:41
[ __ ] confession I've ever seen in my life and what I mean by that he's not lying he's not lying that he killed the
00:47:47
girls he he's lying his confession itself is a lie what I mean by that is he he implies that other people were
00:47:54
involved that he didn't actually do the killing himself that he was just somehow
00:47:59
involved in the abduction and somehow involved in getting rid of the bodies later he's never LED law enforcement to
00:48:06
the bodies and law enforcement has come out and said look we understand that this is what this dude's confession is
00:48:13
but at the end of the day he's the one that pled guilty to First deegree murder on both of these accounts the other
00:48:19
people that he's named throughout the course of his confession we either believe that they
00:48:25
had no involvement or some of these individuals have passed away or there's no evidence to connect them to the case
00:48:33
yeah and you wonder if he's not leading them to the bodies because that's a Dumping Ground for some of his other
00:48:39
victims as well that's interesting that you say that that very well could be and
00:48:45
the other thought on him too Captain I would I would suspect is that is it possible that if
00:48:52
they were to find the bodies that his story his confession doesn't so much line up the problem with him is I don't
00:49:00
think that he's just going to come right out and say hey I was involved in this murder I was involved in this abduction
00:49:06
or that abduction or this murder the way they got to this guy was they found stuff on him they found things to put
00:49:13
him in place of that abduction in 1975 in Maryland things that he couldn't dismiss away he couldn't explain away
00:49:22
why he was there okay and then we know throughout the course of his lifetime he would go on to have sexual assault
00:49:30
offenses against girls of the same or similar age now I do want to kind of put a u hopeful spin on this story and maybe
00:49:42
maybe to bring some people to to think that something good could happen soon maybe we could get some answers in this
00:49:48
case and that would be I want to cycle back to Rusty Arnold we talked about him he's the brother of one of the missing
00:49:56
individuals recently he has said that he has quote a hunch that Vehicles submerged in the Benbrook Lake may have
00:50:05
Clues to the 1974 disappearance of his sister and the two other girls from Fort Worth Texas Arnold said in August of
00:50:13
this year on Facebook that he and his group of volunteers had ra had reached their goal of
00:50:21
$10,000 this money is to pay divers to pull out three vehicles sitting deep at the bottom of the lake okay so we may
00:50:32
soon find out if he is right weather permitting the cars are scheduled to be pulled out September 22nd of this year
00:50:42
by the divers and crew to see if there are any clues to The Disappearance of Rachel trila Rene Wilson and Julianne
00:50:51
Mosley so just a few days away correct the the case is listed as active and open by Fort Worth Police but according
00:51:01
to Rusty Arnold he said that they are not involved in the search at the lake so the group of volunteers are focusing
00:51:09
on these three cars because they believe one of the vehicles belongs to a person
00:51:15
of interest in the case who knew one or all of the girls Rusty Arnold did not disclose the name of that person of
00:51:23
interest but said public at the same time the girls went missing we believe the vehicle he was driving
00:51:30
also disappeared Arnold added we sat around coming up with theories and we discovered that the person of interest
00:51:39
lived within 5 miles of Ben Brook lake at the time Arnold and his group have been working on the lake theory for four
00:51:47
years getting the help of a friend who used sonar and found the vehicles at the bottom of Benbrook Lake this lake is in
00:51:57
Southwest Fort Worth and it's about 10 miles from the shopping center so lots of good news there Captain they have a
00:52:05
lead they have something to follow up on something that could be concrete I mean
00:52:09
they know that these vehicles exist that they're in the lake and it sounds to me
00:52:14
after raising the money and after going through a couple of trial runs or practice Dives whatever you want to call
00:52:22
it they believe that this Saturday they may be able to remove all three of these
00:52:27
vehicles who knows what they may find in the course of those Dives it might be some time before it's revealed what they
00:52:36
found or what significance it has to the case you know if you don't find a body in the vehicle or remains of one of the
00:52:44
victims in the vehicle it's not going to be so obvious you're going to have to sift through what is found and
00:52:50
determined if it holds any value evidentiary value in The Disappearance of of these three girls but interesting
00:52:57
and a little bit of a little Ray of Hope that the remaining family members we're
00:53:02
talking over 40 years ago that a lot of these people lived the rest of their lives and never got any answers as far
00:53:10
as what happened to their loved one now maybe the remaining family members can get that answer those answers that they
00:53:17
deserve and that they need they need that they need some type of closure they need some type of reconciliation
00:53:25
regarding this matter this open wound that they have had for over 40 [Music] years all right do we have a recommended
00:53:43
reading this week yes sir we do this week we are recommending sons of Cain a history of serial killers from the Stone
00:53:50
Age to the present by Peter vonsky and I tell you what Peter's got some very interesting thoughts and theories
00:53:57
regarding serial killers and the history of serial killers I would offer you a uh
00:54:05
detailed description regarding the book however what it says right on the front cover is the best example of what you're
00:54:13
going to read it's a fascinating history of serial killers from the Stone Age to
00:54:17
the present that's called sons of Cain and you don't have to write that title down right now you can go to our website
00:54:24
True Crime garage click on the recommended page and we have a lot of recommended books and
00:54:30
videos and stuff for you there Captain I want to thank you for joining me in the
00:54:36
garage and a big cheers to you sir happy birthday to you uh old decrepit man thank you and thanks to everybody out
00:54:44
there for joining us in the garage we want to see you back here next week until then please be good be kind and
00:54:50
don't [Music] litter [Music] you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to
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