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brand [Music] [Music] [Applause] never [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:47
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always a man that loves you
00:01:53
guys more than Kanye loves Kanye Jay-Z you never call me bro call me bro and I tell you it's good to be seen
00:02:05
and it's good to see you beer of the week it's getting cold outside so let's drink some good winter
00:02:14
beer right this week we have oo Coco Nitro love it love it love it garage grade four and a
00:02:21
quarter five bottle caps this is a truly great wintertime beer cuz it warms the bones and it warms the soul my friends
00:02:30
to say that's right OKO Coco Nitro is an imperial Double Stout by River City Brewing in Spokan washing tan this
00:02:38
smooth creamy full body Stout is brought To Us by our very best garage friends first up we have oh yeah Captain this is
00:02:45
one of my favorite people Kelly and Louisville Kentucky listen closely to what Kelly has to say mhm she says I
00:02:52
love your show and it's a great listen while she prepares boring legal documents yeah the next time we do an
00:03:00
Indiana case she highly recommends seeking out something from three Floyd's Brewery she likes yum yum and Gumball
00:03:07
head Kelly Kelly you are absolutely spoton I am on I'm on untapped look me up of my handle of course is True Crime
00:03:16
garage that that's big news you're dropping that now the veil is dropping yes if anyone wants to look me up on
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there send me a friend request go for it and I may consider it but if you are my
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friend on there you will see that I have great Gumball head a very strong five out of five Gumball head is an American
00:03:34
pale wheat ale and three Floyd is a very cool Brewer this is a ve there's a very
00:03:39
nice grocery store in Clintonville which is near my neighborhood and once in a while they get Gumball head in and they
00:03:46
sell it limit 2 12 O bottles per person and I think it's like $3 a bottle and I always buy two in fact one time I bought
00:03:55
two and then I went outside to my car I sat my car for like 20 minutes I took took my hat off and I went back in and I
00:04:01
bought two more did the guy say I recognize your jib get out of the line sir you've already bought two next up we
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have Rebecca in fville Arizona let's go down under and say hi to Blair and waga waga New South Wales Australia next we
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have King Kenny in Pensacola Florida all hail the king also thanks to Robert down
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in Georgetown Texas M how about a fellow Buckeye Captain we have Christen in perisburg Ohio and last last but not
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least we have Gareth in South Yorkshire United Kingdom and Gareth says have a beer on me and he recommends a beer from
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Black Sheep Brewery if we can get a hold of it Gareth loves the show he says we have good quality production well you
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can thank the captain for that one that's why that's why you can't fire me that's right and he says we have good
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in-depth information and good banner and I'll go ahead and take most of the credit for that stuff so I like to do a
00:04:57
mental everyone get in the line and stick your hand up and I'll do a running high five real quick so thank you Kelly
00:05:02
Rebecca Blair King Kenny Robert Kristen and Gareth for buying us around for this
00:05:07
week's show and if you'd like to support the beer fund and fuel the garage just go to True Crim garage.com and click on
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the Donate button and like always we like your jib and we're a little Rowdy today because it is season 3 finale and
00:05:22
I've had four coffees four coffees and 10 beers and let's get right to it that's right dump out your coffee gather
00:05:30
around grab a chair grab a sixpack of beers and let's talk some true cry this is true crime
00:05:45
garage and this is the case of the Ted [Music] murders [Music] [Music] it was October of
00:06:18
1974 I was a pharmacy student at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City I was at a city park waiting for a bus to
00:06:26
take me back up to campus the bus was late I was getting frustrated and then this tan Volkswagon drove by very slowly
00:06:35
cute driver kind of looked at me as he went past and then he stopped and backed up and leaned over and rolled down the
00:06:40
passenger window and asked me where I was going I told him I was going up to the U and he said me too hop in so I
00:06:48
opened the door and got in the first thing that I noticed was the inside passenger door handle was
00:06:54
missing and he leaned over and pulled the door shut but I wasn't alarmed I figured college kid call car Things fall
00:07:02
off he looked like a college student he was dressed nice had a green pullover sweater on nice
00:07:11
flx light-hearted we just had the normal conversation that strangers would have I
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told him my name's Rhonda and I'm a pharmacy student what are you studying he told me his name was Ted and he was a
00:07:21
law student in a just a couple of blocks he turned a way that wasn't the normal route to the university and I asked him
00:07:28
about that and he he was very polite and asked my permission if it would be all right if he took a little detour he told
00:07:34
me he had to run an errand up by the zoo and I told him that would be fine I didn't care I thought I would still be
00:07:40
home faster than if I had waited for the bus and then we went right on pass the zoo and I said hey I thought we were
00:07:46
taking me to the zoo and he said no I said near the zoo that road goes over the hill and drops down into parley's
00:07:53
Canyon which is the main highway back into the city nothing's g off we're just having
00:07:58
fun we get to the bottom of that Canyon we should have turned right to go towards campus and instead he turned
00:08:04
left and started driving up another Canyon and as he's driving he's kind of looking at parking places and side roads
00:08:12
the conversation started to go weird then because he stopped talking to me and I'm still trying to make idle
00:08:18
conversation and and I'm thinking that he's probably looking for a place to pull off in park and wants to make out
00:08:24
and I don't know him and I'm not really a make out person but he's still a cute law student and I don't want to offend
00:08:29
him and I don't want to embarrass myself so I'm thinking of how do I get out of this
00:08:39
situation and then he pulled into a parking place and and parked the car and turned it
00:08:46
off and then he turned into the car seat so he's kind of facing me and he leaned
00:08:50
in really close I thought he was going to kiss me instead he said very quietly do you know what I'm going going to kill
00:08:59
you I'm going to kill you and he put his hands on my throat and started squeezing my first thought was it has to
00:09:09
be some kind of a joke this guy's got a weirdest sense of humor but that was just maybe a fraction of a second
00:09:15
because I realized he was squeezing too tightly he was serious and I was in trouble and there's no door
00:09:26
handle we had a little small battle in the car but I went unconscious I did as much of a fight as
00:09:34
you can put up when you're running out of air I'm going to die thought I was going to die right
00:09:43
there in the car but he had other other [Music] plans [Music] 1974 in the great state of Washington we
00:10:07
have a situation here big-time situation women are being attacked some are disappearing and some are found dead we
00:10:13
have about six or seven women ranging in age from 18 to 22 years old who are attacked now these are not all the same
00:10:20
deal here one woman is attacked in her sleep she's sleeping in a house that she shares with several other roommates
00:10:28
she's attacked in abducted from her bed and this is in the uh University of Washington area there's a 19-year-old
00:10:36
that disappears from The Evergreen State College an 18-year-old that disappears from Central Washington State College
00:10:43
campus one night and April 74 and then there's a 22-year-old uh her name is Kathy Parks she disappears from Oregon
00:10:52
State University and Corvalis Oregon so just to mention a few of them so these these young women are disappearing
00:10:59
appearing from different college campuses and other areas and no one really suspects that these things are
00:11:04
connected right some young adults change gears on a dime and move away so you know some of these people they're not
00:11:12
really missing right away right and maybe there's really not a lot of great explanations for this but they are
00:11:18
disappearing and now there are a few detectives that do think that these cases could be connected or something
00:11:26
bigger is going on something being related but of course no one is going to connect the Kathy Park disappearance
00:11:31
from Oregon State but that is all going to change very quickly here because we're going to talk about a place called
00:11:39
Lake samamish all right the lake samamish is a beautiful state park located 8 miles east of Seattle in King
00:11:46
County it's a big Park it's about five it's 512 Acres uh and it has quite a bit of Waterfront access with boat launches
00:11:55
and of course hiking and picnicking uh and when you look up Lake samamish on Wikipedia The they list three major
00:12:02
events as occurring at lak samamish now the first one they list is a pirates vers Vikings massive water balloon fight
00:12:10
which is held annually sounds like a lot of fun uh and then not a lot of fun for
00:12:15
the other events because the next event they list is wife killer Randy Roth drowned his fourth wife Cynthia at Lake
00:12:22
samamish and then uh this event um so continuing on back to 1974 said lake samamish is a beautiful
00:12:30
state par state park with all of that fresh water and of course it's going to be very busy in the warm months of
00:12:38
Summer with plenty of young adults looking for fun in the sun but July 14th 1974 the state park was extremely busy
00:12:45
they estimate that there were about 40,000 to 50,000 people there that day now part of that was due to several
00:12:52
large businesses holding their company picnic picnics on that Sunday afternoon but most most of that is because of the
00:13:01
great weather it was 90° temperature that day plenty of sunshine so around noon a young man described as about 25
00:13:10
years of age with blondish hair approached a pretty 22-year-old woman the woman's name is Mary osmer uh she
00:13:19
was over in a grassy area this is near one of those company picnics that were going on the stranger said hi and asked
00:13:28
Mary for her help he was wearing blue jeans a white T-shirt and his arm was in a sling he is asking for help with his
00:13:36
sailboat he needs to load it onto his car but of course he's unable to because of his arm right and to get a visual I
00:13:43
mean think about Silence of the Lambs when Buffalo Bill uh was moving that um couch and he asked the lady for help so
00:13:52
so she agrees to go help him he he seems like somebody that seems like a good person and might be in need of help and
00:13:59
they walk over together to his vehicle oh and he has a bum arm right so and he's got a little VW Bug uh but the
00:14:07
problem that here is she immediately notices Mary notices that there's no sailboat and uh he says well the
00:14:14
sailboat well and how many bugs could tow a sailboat well depends on how big the boat it's a small boat that you he
00:14:22
wants to loaded up on top of the vehicle oh okay more like a kayak yeah okay so he says that you know the boat is it's
00:14:31
up at my parents place which is we just got to drive up the hill here and pick it up and she she's a little worried
00:14:39
about this situation had the boat been there she probably would have helped the guy right um but because the boat's not
00:14:45
there she's not very eager to leave the group that she's with and she mentions that she's already running late she
00:14:52
she's supposed to be meeting her parents around uh 12 1220 that day and so she's
00:14:58
already running l for that so she kind of politely backs out of helping the man and the man she says is polite and he
00:15:06
thanks her and apologizes that the boat wasn't right there with the vehicle and he even walks her about halfway back to
00:15:13
that grassy area where they were um this VW Bug's going to become very important
00:15:19
as we will see later um but another of the young adults that was there that day enjoying the beautiful weather was
00:15:27
23-year-old Janice uh she's a thin petite 5ot tall with long straight blond hair MH um she rode
00:15:37
to the lake that day by herself uh and she rode her bike she had a yellow tiger 10-speed bike uh and at the beach she
00:15:46
was she was once she was there you know she gets there gets her things out puts her bike away and she goes down to the
00:15:53
beach area they have plenty of Waterfront as we had mentioned and she's going to throw out her towel and strip
00:15:58
down to the bikini and start sunning you know like everybody else is doing on that 90° day sunbathing right so about
00:16:05
this time a uh stranger now described as wearing white shoes a white t-shirt and
00:16:11
shorts but again his arm is in a sling walks to the beach and he goes up to janot he's probably wearing Jorts he
00:16:20
asks if she would help him load his sailboat but this time he immediately states that the boat is not at the
00:16:28
vehicle it's at his parents house which is up the hill in isqua now the girl says
00:16:34
Janice she says real quick though isn't this how it normally happens though when
00:16:37
somebody asks for a favor like it always turns it always turns into something bigger yeah it's a small favor at first
00:16:44
I just need you to help me get this boat on to my car all you got to do is lift it up and then all of a sudden there's
00:16:49
all these different obstacles but by the way we got to go to my parents house and
00:16:53
then you know it's going to be in the basement so we got to get it out of the basement and Janice is very nice you
00:16:58
know she says well I'm from isqua so no big deal I will help you uh with this boat I understand we're going to have to
00:17:05
take your vehicle and drive up the hill and and find the the this is a hand handsome gent right uh yeah well
00:17:12
actually and that's exactly what Mary oser says the the first woman that was approached that we know of she's she
00:17:19
commented that he was uh she found him to be attractive and that's why he she agreed to help him mhm I guess ugly
00:17:26
people don't get helped according to Mary um sorry sorry about that I nobody helps
00:17:32
me with anything nobody's held a door for me ever you got a nice jib don't worry about it so Janice agrees to help
00:17:39
this young man and um she does State you know I rode my bicycle to the beach so if we're going to take your car
00:17:47
somewhere I'm hoping that I can your you know put the bike in your car or we hav
00:17:52
it wait up I'm sorry I was just thinking about that stupid movie you know 40-year-old vir yeah you got a big trunk
00:17:59
cuz I'm going to put my bike in it sorry it's insensitive now the park is extremely busy that day right right
00:18:07
40,000 maybe small City basically yeah that's there a ton of people there that day and so you can imagine that the
00:18:15
beach is a little crowded and Janice being a very attractive young woman wearing a bikini sitting there
00:18:22
sunbathing of course some people are going going to take notice to this and because the beach is so crowded there
00:18:27
are people sitting and lying rather close to one another so some of the other people on the beach they overhear
00:18:35
this conversation and they're witnessing you know this interaction between these
00:18:39
two strangers and during this interaction several people you know kind of eased dropping notice that they the
00:18:46
two introduce one another and you know she says my name is Janice and the stranger says uh my name is Ted um and
00:18:54
then ask her for the help well about 12:30 so this is very quickly after this strange man approached Mary you know
00:19:05
this is within 15 to 20 minutes after she had denied him the help of the sailboat and now he's already moved on
00:19:13
to the next woman and he's he's receiving help from her seemingly because she's getting up collecting her
00:19:19
belongings she's asked about her bicycle and now about 12:30 Mary osar she sees the man that she spoke to uh who
00:19:29
introduced himself as Ted to Janice right she sees the two of them walking together and Janice has her bicycle with
00:19:37
her right now they go off and we don't we don't know where they go uh to this date we still don't exactly know where
00:19:45
they went but there are a few things that we would later be able to surmise what probably took
00:19:52
place this Ted person took Janice somewhere and in the course of of getting there or once there he Unleashed
00:20:02
a sneak attack on her uh probably using a crowbar to strike her over the head right and then he would tie her up uh
00:20:12
maybe even use handcuffs but he was able to control her in a way that he would be
00:20:19
physically leaving her uh alive whether she's unconscious or or just knocked out
00:20:25
or or or bound right and and held captive somewhere we don't know but we do know that he left her somewhere and
00:20:32
she was alive when this took place now around 3:00 this afternoon so we're just talking about two and a half hours
00:20:40
later Diane Watson is near a concession stand this is one that is closest to an East they have you know multiple
00:20:49
restrooms at this uh Park and this is closest to one of the Eastern restrooms now she notices another young woman this
00:20:58
this is Denise nasland now Denise is at the beach with her boyfriend and another
00:21:03
couple uh Diane also notices a young man in his mid 20s and this young man is staring at her and this is like an
00:21:11
intense stair you know the kind of stare that you you not only notice it but you
00:21:15
can kind of feel it um I I don't get those seconds later the young man is asking Diane if she would help him load
00:21:26
his sailboat onto his car now Diane would later say that the man sounded embarrassed uh probably because
00:21:33
he was you know a man asking a woman for help but he he did also have his arm in
00:21:39
the sling now Diane does decline helping the man at approximately 400 p.m. another young woman is approached by The
00:21:47
Stranger with wearing the arms sling this time he asked Lori Adams if she would help him launch his boat you know
00:21:54
he's changing his what he you know his needs now would you help me launched the boat now she quickly declines well he he
00:22:00
already got the boat now he's bring it back he has to launch it at 4:30 this man approaches
00:22:06
18-year-old she's 5' 4 in tall this Denise nassin uhuh now Denise had an argument with her boyfriend earlier she
00:22:14
was there with her boyfriend and another couple and she's now off sitting by herself this is near that East
00:22:20
concession stand that we spoke of Denise leaves with the young man that approached her this is witnessed by a
00:22:27
Seattle Police Department employee so this is these are all things that we know happened right but but Denise was
00:22:34
there with her boyfriend correct and so they they get in a fight because you know men are stupid and we ruin fun
00:22:42
events well and they're also young people you know young people argue about nothing sometimes yeah and then uh I
00:22:49
don't know anything about arguing about nothing I don't know what you're talking
00:22:52
about um so then she gets in a fight with her boyfriend and then she's left with this uh Ted guy yeah yeah so
00:23:00
earlier this Diane she noticed the guy that approached her and um she sees this other young woman sitting over by that
00:23:08
East concession stand now this is when uh another this is the Seattle Police Department employee notices the young
00:23:16
man going up to Denise and sees the two of them leaving together they're leaving
00:23:22
the area together now Denise is never seen alive again after this situation mhm so what we know now is that these
00:23:30
two women both disappeared both of them about the same age and we know that this
00:23:35
quote unquote Ted person who is walking around introducing himself as Ted asking
00:23:41
for help with his sailboat he's approached multiple women um time and time again and he's received two offers
00:23:50
for help and both of the young ladies that help him they're not going to be seen again the rest of that day or or
00:23:56
ever again live what we can figure out here is this Ted person had taken Janice somewhere and
00:24:02
kept her somewhere alive probably knocked out probably bound and then later he brought Denise to the same
00:24:09
location what took place after this is a little uncertain but we know we will know from later attacks and later things
00:24:19
that we will see in the case of the Ted murders that he probably attacked both of them and terrorized them together and
00:24:27
separately uh this was a person that would would would rape women as he terrorized them
00:24:34
and we have a situation here where we now have two people being held captive and being terrorized together one of
00:24:43
them is going to witness the other one being killed right in front of them right and that in itself is some kind of
00:24:50
form of mental torture I mean that's horrific well and you're talking about a stist of the highest level here um
00:24:58
someone that that extremely enjoys the the panic and the terror uh that he's instilling into others oh yeah and the
00:25:06
control for days and days the people in the community the law enforcement they are looking for these two young women
00:25:14
they they've gone missing they've disappeared now it is not until September of 74 this is you know roughly
00:25:21
less than 2 months later a hunter stumbles upon some human remains this is about a mile from the lake
00:25:30
samamish uh the FBI is called in for these to investigate and the FBI the FBI would spend days and days there I I
00:25:39
believe they spent like nine or 10 days there searching the area and what they end up coming up with in the end is that
00:25:48
they find most of the bones of the two victims this being the two women that young women that were missing um they do
00:25:55
not find Janice's skull uh but they find most of her her remains uh they find women's clothing that is unrelated to
00:26:05
the two victims and they also find some bones of an unknown female victim and of
00:26:11
course they find a crowbar and that's why I had suggested earlier that maybe a crowbar was used in an attack to knock
00:26:18
out the the women or to or to beat the women right but this will all go back to those earlier investigations of the
00:26:25
disappearing women from the different camp college campuses and this is going to lead to something here and it's going
00:26:32
to give the police a break so to speak and it's also going to give the community it's going to open up the eyes
00:26:39
of the people in the community and we'll get into that right after this beer this
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show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time
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hp.com garage canva presents a true crime of design in the office Maya spots something unusual in the presentation
00:27:47
what's this it was an off-brand font her coworker explains I added the font I thought it was fun it was not Maya Sol
00:27:57
it with canva open up canva one click and the font is on brand easy stay on brand and solve font crimes at canva.com
00:28:06
the home for every [Music] brand welcome back to our studio where we have a special guest with us today
00:28:15
Tuan Sam from Froot Loops tan Sam welcome it's my pleasure to be here oh and um it's Fruit Loops just so you know
00:28:25
uh fruit fruit yeah fruit no it's Fruit Loops the same way you say Studio that's not how we see it fro
00:28:38
Loops find the loopy side break and we're back cheers everybody cheers so we're talking about
00:28:46
the Ted murders and how does this whole lake shamish thing fall into place with what we were talking about earlier well
00:28:53
we have a community where we have different young women being attacked some of of them are disappearing from
00:28:59
campuses around the area and as we said the community doesn't really know that there's something going on here where
00:29:06
there's links to these different cases however the eyes are opened after this attack at Lake samamish on that day
00:29:13
where there's 40 to 50,000 people and two beautiful young women go missing and they're missing for days and days and
00:29:20
weeks and weeks and about two months later their their remains are found by the FBI yeah again a lot of people you
00:29:27
have two pretty ladies that go missing and but we have this odd character that was seen talking to the ladies and
00:29:35
that's what's interesting about this we we we now have a community that knows something is going on and we know that
00:29:41
we have someone that is capable of not only killing people but capable of taking two women at the same place at
00:29:49
the same time and and pulling that off somehow but on top of that we had these detectives that thought that there might
00:29:58
be something going on but they have no leads right Captain they have nothing to go on because in most of these cases
00:30:04
there's either no Witnesses or there's no bodies that are being found and now well until the yeah until the lake um
00:30:13
now we have remains that have been found and on top of that we have witnesses and
00:30:18
we have something for the police to work with we have a lead here now somebody is
00:30:23
going around a young man that appears to be in his mid 20s maybe 25 and they have several descriptions of
00:30:29
him he's going around and he's talking to multiple women these are descriptions that are that are coming forth from
00:30:35
women that were present that day as well as onlookers and other beachgoers and people that were at the park that saw
00:30:42
this person going up to these different women and not only that but you also have women that actually talk to him
00:30:49
talk to this man named Ted they're going to help this man so you're going to get
00:30:53
a better eyewitness account of those events than just some onlooker that saw this guy from 50 ft away and the police
00:31:00
do something very interesting here um they do a call to action to the community and because they realize that
00:31:06
there are so many people at the park that day and they have a couple bits of information they have this one thing
00:31:13
where the guy is using the name Ted well that very well could be a fake name uh you actually I would assume that it
00:31:20
would be a fake name and I believe that they probably did too as well um but there's nothing wrong with fake names
00:31:26
but on top of that they have a vehicle description from Mary osmer who walked over to the vehicle and said no I can't
00:31:33
help you um and she saw the same guy she saw him walking off with Janice a just a
00:31:40
half an hour later yeah and the vehicle is a uh VW Bug but it odd color tan well
00:31:48
it it some people call it a tan and other times it's been referred to as a bronze color um so still odd though I
00:31:54
mean that's not the typical when I think VW Bug I'm thinking red or yell yellow for some reason uh but what the police
00:32:03
do is they're going to reach out to everybody in the community using uh their media sources and they're going to
00:32:09
say you know what we want anybody that took photos that day you know maybe you saw something and you have something to
00:32:16
report but if you didn't see anything and you happen to take a bunch of photos that day bring us all of your photos and
00:32:21
we would like to look through them why because what they're trying to see here is they they know what kind of vehicle
00:32:27
they're looking for and they know roughly where the vehicle was parked so they want to they're going to scour
00:32:32
through all these pictures and they're going to try to see if they can spot the vehicle because they're hoping maybe
00:32:38
they can get a picture of the man standing near the vehicle yeah or the license plate
00:32:43
exactly but the other thing that we're going to have here in the investigation is we are learning about body dumping
00:32:51
and this is the FBI as well and what they learn from this situation is that in slightly less than 2 months time the
00:32:59
bodies that had been dumped there they had not only fully decomposed to that of skeleton remains but the man calling
00:33:06
himself also had one other thing on his side animals had scattered The Remains all over the Hillside and some of this
00:33:13
was pretty good distances as well remember we said it took them over a week to find everything that they they
00:33:18
ended up compiling at the end and that ended up being the remains of two I'm sorry two identified persons one ident
00:33:26
Uniden ified victim as well as the possible murder weapon the Crowbar right not full remains of a third victim but
00:33:35
you know just I think fragments it was you know but then one of the victims was missing the skull which is very odd as
00:33:42
well mhm but I wonder if the cops I wonder if the FBI just assume that because these victims were found in the
00:33:51
wilderness if maybe that animal just went off with it I mean I know that's a little gory and graphic but that was
00:33:58
their they they had actually figured that out um they there were probably markings on some of the bones that would
00:34:05
indicate such activity taking place and they really kind of just surmised that whoever dumped them just left the bodies
00:34:12
there and walked away from them and whatever had happened to the bodies during The Deco decomposition process
00:34:19
was that animals had scattered these pieces uh throughout the hillside the other interesting thing to me is that
00:34:27
the law enforcement FBI or the cops they also you know not only looking through these pictures hoping to get license
00:34:34
plate or a visual of this man um they also were compiling a list of guys named Ted and not just assuming again that if
00:34:45
uh that that this you know perpetrator used Alias well and that's where the investigation took a big spin where
00:34:54
before they were just investigating these r random attacks that were taking place at different college campuses but
00:35:01
the reason that they're able to make a link to this lake samamish is that the the victimology here you have victims
00:35:07
that they look similar they're all of the same age they're College age girls they're young attractive women this
00:35:14
would be this person's victim type and so that's why they end up starting to call this case the Ted murders because
00:35:22
that's the only thing they have to go off of is this person introducing himself as Ted and at the time too we
00:35:30
have to discuss you know we have the FBI and we have persons involved in the FBI
00:35:35
that are used to investigating these type of cases these serial murder cases and one thing they start discussing
00:35:42
amongst themselves is why would this individual if he is linked to these attacks at Lake samamish why would he
00:35:51
jump make the leap from these seemingly very successful murders that he's done where there's no Witnesses where there
00:35:59
may not even be a body found there's no evidence no leads here's someone that seems to be very good at what they're
00:36:05
doing and now all of a sudden he's putting himself and doing this double event which is extremely risky Behavior
00:36:13
yeah like we said uh 40 to 50,000 people and then you're taking two victims you know it's very it's very
00:36:22
like you said risky Behavior to get get in CAU if the other crimes are connected
00:36:28
to this and for decades people would speculate about this and they would wonder you know why make this leap was
00:36:35
this something that this Ted person set out to do that day was he did he wake up
00:36:40
with the plan of going and taking two women uh and putting them together and terrorizing them at the same time or did
00:36:47
he just go to this event and you know you know his um sickness his addiction for murder did it come to the surface
00:36:57
and he just couldn't control himself and one thing that I heard brought up which
00:37:01
is interesting you know a lot of these they say sometimes these serial killers try to one up each other um that there's
00:37:08
like some of them that kind of compete or that they read and study other serial killers and there's things that they
00:37:14
want to mimic or or do better than than what they've seen other k killers do now
00:37:21
Jack the Ripper did a double event uh back in his day and uh there's even been some this is off the subject here but
00:37:29
there's even been some it's weird to call it an event he did a double murder yeah and and in Jack's situation he he
00:37:36
the thought is that he killed one woman on one side of town and then very quickly went to the other side of town
00:37:43
and killed another woman there's been an interesting Theory that's come out within the last year or two that
00:37:49
speculates that Jack the Ripper was actually two people working together that were both linked close to the case
00:37:56
and being in investigated at the time and maybe that they came up with this idea that okay you kill you one half a
00:38:04
Jack Ripper go to this side of town and kill this girl and then you're there at the scene of the crime so you're you're
00:38:12
almost a witness to this event right so you cannot be a suspect in the other killing that took place on the other
00:38:18
side of town that's committed by the other right one half of Jack the Ripper right you know uh this situation though
00:38:25
I don't I don't know that this was the Ted person trying to outdo Jack the Ripper or if this was something that he
00:38:32
read about and fantasized about doing that that's regarded as actually that's the number one theory is that this was
00:38:39
something that he he wanted to up the stakes that this was something that he wanted to do that he always desired to
00:38:45
take two victims at the same time well yeah if you're getting some Sensation from one murder then you know up up the
00:38:55
antie get double The Sensation from a double murder yeah and they they suspect that he always wanted to kill one victim
00:39:03
in front of the other victim um I'm going to go off on my own little thing here I think what what I see out of this
00:39:11
character is I think I see someone that's just outright addicted to the act of capturing the women and terrorizing
00:39:20
them and murdering them and I think it's it's like a drug to this person and I think what happened was he went there
00:39:27
that day with the expectation of abducting one victim and maybe leaving afterwards uh however I think once he
00:39:36
got there and there's so many people there's so many gorgeous young women that are his victim type and I think
00:39:44
that he got there and he he couldn't it's like a kid in the candy store he couldn't pick out just one uh I mean not
00:39:51
only that we see him going up to woman after woman after woman after woman I mean he went up to eight or nine
00:39:57
different ladies that day and he ends up taking two I think he just really wanted
00:40:02
to kill them all you know too many victims and he wanted he there were too many to choose from so he would allow
00:40:08
himself to well un fairness he has to find somebody that's willing to help him mhm and as I said he approached woman
00:40:14
after woman and he allowed himself to who's to say that had he not reached whatever level of gratification that he
00:40:21
was hoping to reach or that high that he was chasing when he went there to the Park that morning who's to say that
00:40:28
after two that if he hadn't reached that high that there wouldn't have been three
00:40:31
or four that same day the King County Police they're finally armed with a detailed description of their suspect as
00:40:38
well as his car they start posting Flyers throughout the Seattle area and a composite sketch was printed in Regional
00:40:45
newspapers and broadcast on local television stations now the tips start coming in and they don't just come in I
00:40:53
mean they are pouring in the police are receiving approximately 200 tips per day
00:40:59
because of the composite sketch as well as the information about the vehicle and
00:41:04
what had taken place at the park that day now amongst sprinkled into those uh sprinkled into those tips are a few that
00:41:13
we have to bring up okay there's one really interesting one first of all it's a uh University of Washington psychology
00:41:20
Professor all right so this tip number one Yep this professor calls in the tip and says you know what have a student at
00:41:28
at the University of Washington and he's kind of an oddball and he's in my class
00:41:33
and he has a VW Bug and he looks like the sketch that I'm seeing on the news and his name is Theodore Bundy and
00:41:45
here's tip number two so sprinkled in with all those other tips we have a lady by the name of Anne Rule now she comes
00:41:53
forward and says the same thing you know I work with this guy at this crisis hotline he's he's my partner which is
00:42:01
weird because he's a very nice guy and we're friends um we're not yeah this is a a crisc crisc Hotline Crisis Hotline
00:42:10
yeah well wow it's too early um no but it's a it's basically like a suicide call-in you know if if you're feeling
00:42:20
like you're going to commit suicide you call in so so it's it's odd that okay one well we know it's Ted we know
00:42:27
there's a guy named Ted so that he has that going against him uh we also but it's he has a bug but could you imagine
00:42:35
if you're working this basically a suicide hotline and you're working with this guy named Ted and you hear about
00:42:41
these horrific murders how how much that would play with your psyche where well why would he
00:42:48
be helping people not die if but just to go murder people well and think about this too from Anne rues perspective when
00:42:58
do you think that most of those crisis phone calls come in they the majority of them are probably coming in in the late
00:43:05
evening nighttime so picture this she is alone with this Ted person this Theodore
00:43:11
Bundy and yeah they actually lock you in they're working side by side Manning the
00:43:16
phones together for all hours of the night and not only that they she said we're we're friends you know we've gone
00:43:23
to lunch together yeah he's a Charming guy yeah she's a little bit older at the time and she she's doing that to just
00:43:29
kind of be a good person and donate her time but the the crisis hotline what they would do is they would pair these
00:43:36
older adults with uh college students that wanted to donate their time as well uh whether they're trying to gain
00:43:44
experience for things I mean we're seeing looks good on the resume this person if he M matches up if he's the
00:43:49
same Theodore Bundy this is somebody that is obviously taking psychology classes at uh Washington University do
00:43:56
we have a third tip the third tip is and I'm I'm going to give a fake name here because this person I I know their real
00:44:03
name and you can if you look on let's use the captain that's a good fake name well well I have a fake name for it uh
00:44:11
but here's my little warning to everybody if you want to you can go out and you can find her real name if that's
00:44:16
that important to you this person would go on later to write a book and she did not use her real name in the book so I
00:44:24
don't think it's fair for me to use her real name here so uh her her fake name is Liz Kendall now Liz Kendall she says
00:44:32
that uh I have a kind of on and off again boyfriend and his name is Ted Bundy and he matches the description as
00:44:42
well as he drives the vehicle that that was said to be at the park that day um and she says she does she she outwardly
00:44:51
says to the detective on the phone I don't suspect that he's the Killer I I don't think he's capable of anything
00:44:58
like that but well there I mean she's having a a sexual intimate relationship with this individual
00:45:05
so one would hope that you know you don't pick the worst Partners in the world like that yeah and what happens is
00:45:14
you know she says she doesn't think it's actually him that he he couldn't kill anybody he's too nice of a guy to do
00:45:19
anything like that but because he looks so much like the drawing and because he has the same or similar V
00:45:26
she felt compelled to call in the tip right he looks like the drawing he has the car and it's the same name
00:45:34
um this is this is the mine um Bender for me could you imagine a guy in the Seattle Washington area
00:45:44
named Ted guy's a little down on his luck right his name is Ted handsome man and he has a tan VW Bug and then
00:45:56
this report comes out but but you're not the killer you don't have anything to do with it you're
00:46:02
just saying supposed story hypothetically how many teds and not even a tan VW VW Bug but just any Ted
00:46:11
with a bug in that area what the heck their brain was going through at the time like people constantly just like oh
00:46:18
there's Ted with his bug just giving you the dirtiest looks and you're just like
00:46:22
this wasn't me it wasn't me so I know what's going on right now okay we have listeners sitting at home they're in
00:46:29
their car they're on the subway they're at work and they're going wait a second we're talking about these murders that
00:46:35
took place at the lake we're talking about murders and disappearances that took place at places at these different
00:46:40
campuses and now we got three people three people that call in and they but we have hundreds and hundreds of tips
00:46:48
but three that are saying specifically Theodore Bundy and of course we can look back 40 years later and go well no [ __ ]
00:46:56
Sherlock uh why didn't you start piecing this together right the problem like the
00:47:00
captain said is we have over 200 tips coming in per day and now Robert Keele who was one of the lead investigators
00:47:08
for the FBI at the time on the Ted murder's case in his defense in their defense years later he writes in his
00:47:16
book The the specifics of what they were dealing with at the time so by the time
00:47:22
of n by June of 1975 here's what they're dealing with this is you know less than
00:47:27
a year after the lake shamish murders okay they're dealing with 3,500 sus 3,500 suspect names gathered
00:47:38
throughout June of 1975 and those are just teds well not entirely those are just suspects that have been called in
00:47:45
whether whether they're a suspect because a detective has put them on the list or because a tipster called it in
00:47:51
and put them on the list or maybe another Police Department said hey we got this suspicious guy his name's not
00:47:56
Ted but 3500 people that's a lot of people to sift through now on top of that here's some other things that
00:48:03
they're looking at in this case they have 5,000 mental patients that were released between the years of 1964 and
00:48:11
1974 we also have 41,000 registered owners of Vault say that again the the mental patients there are 5,000 mental
00:48:21
patients released between the years of 1964 and 1974 so that's a decade's time yeah yeah 5,000 would be a lot if we
00:48:29
said it was 10 months or 12 months but but it's over the course of a DEC or if it's just all one day yeah yeah just
00:48:35
open up the doors all right see you guys later um everybody's better there's 41,000 registered owners of
00:48:42
Volkswagen 41,000 people very popular car back then you also my mother had one you also have 300 Campus vendors at the
00:48:50
University of Washington you have 2,162 guests that stay at a nearby Hotel uh of Lake shamish of that weekend right
00:49:00
so that those are people that came into the area and then left right so again if
00:49:05
we if we uh take away the attacks and the murders that were happening on the college campuses and just look at this
00:49:12
as a you know just a individual isolated event or murder I just use your word um
00:49:21
then if if we just isolate it then this could just be a commuter and where they coming from they they could be coming
00:49:27
from 6 hours away 12 hours away who knows and I think if you're talking about that they only had 200 tips come
00:49:33
in total and one or two of them are of this Theodore Bundy person that matches the description with the with the this
00:49:40
college student basically that they would probably put that together a lot sooner than what they had however we're
00:49:46
talking about as far as tips go a needle and a hay stack mhm okay so well actually like a few needles yeah a h
00:49:55
stack but it's still all pointing to the same guy I guess now there are some officers that do follow up on these uh
00:50:04
Ted uh tips that are coming in the Ted tips um so but what they find and and I will fault them a little bit on this I
00:50:11
won't fault them for the needle and the hay stack but I'll fault them for this they very Loosely look into this
00:50:17
situation they basically look into the background of this Theodore Bundy and they they come up with the idea that
00:50:24
it's very unlik that a cleancut law student with no adult criminal record would be the perpetrator of this
00:50:32
horrible horrible crime I mean we're not talking about stealing something from the local market this is a double murder
00:50:38
with the potential of a third victim uh this is the worst of the worst yeah well I like you said I mean
00:50:47
profiling wise I think they viewed it as somebody that was taking their killings
00:50:52
to the next level and that's one of the reasons why the FBI started to encapsulate the other murders into this
00:51:00
event and so to just think that okay if again if these murders are not connected it's still the first time this
00:51:11
guy commits a crime that you know is a double murder that seems like a far jump I can see see the logic behind that
00:51:18
thought yeah a lot of the the more uh schooled detectives in the the FBI they do think that most these crimes are
00:51:26
linked um not all of them there's not a lot of evidence pointing towards that though and the other thing when we're
00:51:31
talking about numbers and statistics here another thing that they have to deal with is amongst those college
00:51:37
campuses where these women disappeared we're talking about different college campuses right there's over 1500 people
00:51:42
that transferred within that time period out of those schools so you know one could think when when a detective or a
00:51:50
FBI agent is looking for somebody that did something out of character that's absolutely horor
00:51:56
most people the normal behavior is to run as far away from that as possible and so of course they're going to look
00:52:03
at anybody that transferred during those time periods has to be a suspect and has
00:52:07
to find themselves on that suspect list whether it be just for one of the cases or all of them well we have some
00:52:14
connections you know like you were saying the the the more I I it wouldn't be experienced because it could just be
00:52:23
an intellect thing that started seeing that there were connections I mean all female victims all roughly around the
00:52:29
same age uh most had um evidence of binding on the hands M uh strangulation probably in most of the cases well but
00:52:40
again that a lot of these bodies they've not found and oh right right one thing you
00:52:46
one thing you do have on your side that helps you link them is the short time frame this is all taking place in the
00:52:51
year of 1974 yeah yeah I mean that's that's pretty quick um so we talked about you know running as far away a
00:52:58
normal person would run as far away from their bad Deeds as possible uh what we do see here is in August of 1974 this is
00:53:06
just one month after the double event uh Ted Theodore bunny well that's Theodore
00:53:12
Bundy uh he gets accepted to the University of Utah and he moves to Salt Lake City and during this transfer
00:53:20
process for Mr Bundy the the police the King County police and the FBI going through they're experiencing something
00:53:27
new for the first time okay not only do they have a very complicated investigation this is this is what
00:53:33
they're realizing they're realizing that you know what all this paperwork and all
00:53:37
these tips following up on all these tips categorizing them and putting them into some kind of order that makes sense
00:53:44
is a whole another job on itself the paperwork portion in the recordkeeping actually became more cumbersome than the
00:53:52
actual investigation why because guess what if I'm a if I get a good tip well I need to I need to go and look through
00:53:59
the other tips and see if I can match that up with anything well we're getting 200 tips a day how do I sift through
00:54:06
thousands and thousands of tips to see if that if it matches up with anything else yeah and now with today's
00:54:12
technology we could take all those tips and we could put them into computer system and we could have the computer
00:54:19
find those uh you know similarities there uh back in 75 this didn't happen right well what they come up with is
00:54:28
they come up with a pretty intricate uh cataloging system that involves 3x5 index cards and I won't get into the
00:54:35
whole intricacies of this this system that they come up with you don't want to like True Crime dork it out real quick
00:54:41
but but they three hours later and then what they did they come up with a way that it's easier for the detectives and
00:54:47
for the persons receiving the tips to categorize them and to link them together in a much more efficient way
00:54:55
uh one good idea that the FBI comes up with is that we need to come up with our 100 best teds okay so whether your name
00:55:04
is the captain or whether your name is Nick or whether your name is Ted If you fit certain criteria you could end up
00:55:10
being labeled as one of the 100 best teds and we'll we'll start narrowing it down from there and the reason being is
00:55:17
because you've got to conduct this investigation with a certain amount of haste because you you expect at some
00:55:24
point your suspect could flee could end up in prison for something else he could
00:55:29
just go away and make it harder for you to have an investigation to complete your investigation and find him so
00:55:36
they've got to figure out how they can speed this process up which I mean this is all interesting like the the search
00:55:42
for this guy to be on the other side of things normally when we see a documentary um it's based off the you
00:55:48
know how the serial killer grew up and his his uh relationship between him and his mother and stuff like
00:55:56
that to me and then also once we it becomes a Hollywood movie then it like we we glorify these people and we
00:56:03
glamorize them and it's oh they're so great um I I prefer when you know there should be more documentaries on the
00:56:13
actual investigation to find this person because that science and and some of it
00:56:19
it's just by happen stance or luck but but to me that's super fascinating well and what they the reason being too
00:56:27
Captain is that they would use these methods they were like coming up with these methods as they you know as they
00:56:34
were working the case you know they'd go home every night and go well how can we
00:56:38
make this work better how can we make this more efficient and they came up with this whole process well and there's
00:56:44
lives on the line I mean they're they're you know innocent you know you know let's by all counts just assume they're
00:56:52
sweet people and and and females n n thess so I mean so you know these detectives are going that we need to
00:56:59
solve this we need to get closer to solving this or there will be more victims yeah and but some of this
00:57:06
process is still used today when you have a huge investigation this is kind of the birthplace of these type types of
00:57:13
Investigations so the best way to kind of describe this whole situation that they set up their whole tactic here is
00:57:20
think of a giant spreadsheet right and you could have listed on it uh a hundred different guys okay and on this spread
00:57:28
sheet you're going to have different criteria and some of those guys will check a certain number of those boxes
00:57:35
well the more boxes that you check the higher your name is up on this 100 best teds list and their thought was that
00:57:42
they could put three detectives in charge of the 100 best TS and that those three detectives working that list over
00:57:51
the course of one year should either be able to find the suspect M or clear all 100 names so
00:57:59
they've now put themselves on a on a deadline for finding this Ted and the way that you could work yourself up and
00:58:06
be higher on the list is having more checks on those different criteria you know who actually has the name Ted or
00:58:12
was was this person known to use the Alias Ted does this person have a VW Bug do they have access to a VW Bug how
00:58:21
close do they fit the description are they height weight a things of that nature how many tips are coming in with
00:58:27
this person's name was he on the list because of a detective because of the FBI because of a tip that came in all
00:58:33
these different things will factor in to figure out how high and How likely you are to be the actual Ted that they are
00:58:41
seeking while the King County Police Department and the FBI are putting together their list of the 100 be best
00:58:48
teds we have our Ted Bundy that they are actually looking for who is now located
00:58:54
in Salt Lake City now there's another event that's going to take place this is in the late afternoon of November 8th
00:59:03
Ted Bundy approached an 18-year-old telephone operator her name is Carol Donan and this is at one of those malls
00:59:10
this is at the Fashion Place Mall in Murray Utah R Ted identified himself as officer rosand of the Murray Police
00:59:18
Department he told Carol Duran that someone had attempted to break into her vehicle now he's asked her to go with
00:59:27
him back to the police department because he needs to take an official report of the incident and that she
00:59:33
might even be able to identify the person that they believe they have in custody for the attempted Breakin she
00:59:40
agrees to go with him um and to go file this complaint now on this trip she does
00:59:47
point out to uh this officer rosand that he is not going the right direction direction that that he was driving you
00:59:57
know completely wrong direction to the police department uh during this time she is starting to get weary and she's
01:00:04
starting to question who this person that she's act absolutely with well and and it's not clear but I don't think
01:00:11
he's dressed as a police officer no he he's he's a um he's in street clothes correct and she asked to for him to
01:00:19
provide some form of identification she should have done that before she got in the car she said that he and she gets in
01:00:26
the bug right yeah you're off duty police officer driving a a bug okay I think she just thought he might have
01:00:34
been some kind of detective and uh she asked for this identification she says that he does kind of quickly flash a
01:00:43
badge uh and she does say that the badge looked pretty suspect and when she started to get nervous and when she
01:00:49
started to get visibly it was one of those uh star badges that just say Sheriff yeah you can just buy it at the
01:00:56
uh the local General Store there Buck yeah um but she says once she becomes visibly nervous and she is thinking
01:01:05
about getting out of this vehicle he tries to handcuff her he and what What's Happening Now Captain he's attacking her
01:01:14
and during this scuffle that's taking place in the vehicle he slaps a handcuff on her and he's got one wrist handcuffed
01:01:22
right he's trying to get the handc on the other wrist what takes place is he accidentally puts the handcuffs both
01:01:30
cuffs on the same wrist he thinks that he's got her where he wants her well she's able to she's able to continue the
01:01:38
struggle and she later gets out of the out of the vehicle and escapes this person that she was told was a police
01:01:46
officer now you would think having abducted this woman pretending to be a cop and then in a scuffle inside the car
01:01:56
and she escapes and she's even got a bit of evidence with her because she's got the the handcuffs around her wrist now
01:02:04
right so she has something of yours you would think that this this person would then say you know what I've had enough
01:02:11
for one day this didn't go well for me I I have somebody that can identify me we
01:02:16
got into an altercation this is problematic for me especially knowing the history that this
01:02:22
person has however we're talking about somebody that cannot that probably cannot control themselves or their
01:02:29
desires right the urge so Ted Bundy then remembers that he knows that there is a
01:02:35
production going on you know a theater production at a high school now this is only about 19 miles away now who are we
01:02:43
talking about here we're talking about Ted Bundy we're talking about a person that loves to drive really we're no but
01:02:49
we're talking about somebody that loves to drive and loves to troll and loves to
01:02:53
kind of hunt for these victims whether it be a person you know that he's going to use a ruse to obtain or if it's
01:03:01
somebody that he's going to seek out uh but this is somebody that is is always on the prow yeah he's constantly coming
01:03:08
up with these cons and these schemes of how can I find new victims well for whatever reason he had seen either seen
01:03:15
a um he had got a hold of a brochure for one of these high school theater Productions right and this Pops in his
01:03:23
head immediately you know this potential victim just escaped now I need to go find a new victim I I I got to I got to
01:03:31
reach this high this climax that I've been looking for that I set out for so now I need a new victim so I'm going to
01:03:37
drive 19 miles away he drives to the vont high school now this is where the theater production is just letting out
01:03:47
and there's again this is a situation where we have a lot of people at the high school this is a high-risk
01:03:52
situation for this the suspect and when he's there he is going don't have to call him the suspect anymore Ted
01:04:01
right you're right right sorry this suspect like we don't know who he is it's Ted well Ted is later seen he seen
01:04:10
pacing at the rear of the at the parking lot that's behind the theater portion of
01:04:16
the school yeah so he's seen by multiple people being back there now while he's there he's again approaching different
01:04:23
people and he's asking them you know he's telling them that he's a police officer and that he he's still going
01:04:31
with it yeah and that he he's there's things going on with these vehicles and he needs you to come over and identify
01:04:37
this car or he needs you to come over and speak with him at some point we do not know exactly how but outside of the
01:04:44
auditorium he is able to lure Deborah Jean Kent she's only 17 years old she's a student at the V vont high school and
01:04:54
he lures her and he takes her now she's never seen again right and we don't know if there was a con you know
01:05:04
or if if it was just him grabbing her you know physically removing her and we we can surmise that yeah that you're
01:05:12
exactly right one of two things happened he either tricked her or he may have just panicked and just grabbed somebody
01:05:18
and took off now a lot of people would your first thought is well how do you make this jump
01:05:24
immediately from Carol Donan to this 17-year-old girl at the high school that's 19 mil away well the the body of
01:05:35
Debbie of Deborah Kent has never been found MH however what they do find in the parking lot excuse me of the high
01:05:44
school they find a small key well what is that key that key when you put it into the handcuffs that were on Carol
01:05:51
Don wrist it opens up the handcuffs so we know that the same person that took Carol D took this 17-year-old girl yeah
01:06:01
well that's I mean that's some fascinating [ __ ] right there yeah well the thing is what we're seeing here
01:06:07
again Captain is what in my opinion is a guy that's absolutely addicted to this form of behavior addicted to these acts
01:06:15
and these events these terrible events what what are we seeing we're seeing the same thing that we saw at
01:06:21
Lake shamish where he cannot stop himself cannot control himself he's he's already at risk of getting caught
01:06:27
because the potential victim gets away and rather than coming down off of that high he's got to go immediately to where
01:06:35
he knows there's a large group of people and seek out a new victim putting himself bigger risk of getting caught
01:06:41
he's even seen walking and talking to people in the parking lot right less than 30 40 minutes he's already
01:06:47
attacking a new victim and what we're going to see here too Captain is repeated Behavior so what happened when
01:06:54
things started getting hot in the state of Washington well all of a sudden this Ted Bundy had to transfer to Utah to go
01:07:03
to school in Utah he didn't need to transfer to go to Utah he he transferred because there's he's seeing drawings of
01:07:10
himself on the news and in the newspaper people were even calling in and identifying him by name to the police it
01:07:17
got hot there so he fled well he's going to remain in Utah however he's going to
01:07:24
start driving quite a big distance to achieve this high that he's always seeking he's going to drive out to the
01:07:30
state of Colorado and in 1975 he's going to attempt and abduct and attack and kill about five or six
01:07:40
women in the state of Colorado in 1975 now this is all going to come to a head because in 1975 August 16th Ted
01:07:50
Bundy is arrested now I want to go ahead and throw out there everybody's going to
01:07:54
go well we know this story Nick no I don't think that everybody does because this is often reported as something as
01:08:01
little as it was a routine traffic stop and isn't that how you've always heard it reported yeah yeah I've heard it
01:08:10
pretty common reported that way multiple times and this is what I get very upset
01:08:15
about almost like the cops got lucky exactly well that's not what took place that's not what took place at all well
01:08:22
speak the truth my well and here's the other thing that I want to let me just kind of dive into this called True Crime
01:08:27
garage one thing that I get very angry about when we talk about Ted Bundy is there's there's a few things that always
01:08:35
come up you know people say well you know he had a rough childhood well that's actually not the truth you know a
01:08:41
lot of people will say well that his his mother was pretending to be sister we differ on that you got to let me vent
01:08:49
for a little bit the the thought here is that his mother was pretending to be his sister
01:08:56
because she had him out of wedlock at a young age and that's something that you didn't do back then so then his
01:09:03
grandparents become his parents and that they're going to he's going to grow up believing this for all of his childhood
01:09:10
life and that's absolutely not the truth his mother and him moved away from the grandparents home when he was about six
01:09:18
or seven so maybe this took place but if it did it only took place for the very early stage of his life and how did he
01:09:25
know pretty quickly into his life that his mother was not his sister and was in fact his mother was because when they
01:09:32
moved to Washington she got remarried and he was raised by her and his stepfather from a young age and th and
01:09:42
her and his stepfather had four children so they he he had a more quote unquote normal childhood than most would agree
01:09:50
with the other thing too is that there's this thought that his grandfather fathered him with his mother and that is
01:09:59
absolutely there's no truth to that at all that's at best it's just a bad neighborhood rumor that may have come up
01:10:06
I don't know where it came along I I think it probably came along through the well there's some validity to this
01:10:13
because one of Ted Bundy's lawyers heard these claims and their um office then investigated it and he says on record
01:10:22
that he feels like he had enough evidence to prove it but he didn't have the Smoking Gun to say yes for certain
01:10:30
that Ted Bundy's uh grandfather was his father I'm glad you brought that up because I had wondered always wondered
01:10:36
where that rumor or that story originated from and maybe that's the birthplace of it um but but from what
01:10:43
I've everything that I've seen well because afterwards H sight it was like how how did this sicko happen you know
01:10:51
everybody wanted to find these reasons oh was porno you know porno you know his addiction to porno or maybe he was
01:10:58
dropped when he was a baby they were trying to find all these answers and I think that's where it came from well
01:11:03
maybe it's like a birth defect or you know some sort of um incest well yeah Society wants answers you don't believe
01:11:11
nobody wants to believe that a young good-looking somewhat seemingly successful college student uh law
01:11:18
student is going to go on and murder as many women as he possibly can right um but
01:11:24
from everything that I've seen is that his mother had an on again off again relationship uh with this man for for
01:11:31
many years and he fathered Ted Bundy and Ted got his last name from his eventual
01:11:38
stepfather however the his real father didn't want to have kids didn't want to have a didn't want to settle down and
01:11:44
get married and this I don't have the the man's name in front of me but it sounds like this is something that he
01:11:49
did uh more than once uh throughout his lifetime um but but the real reason for my venting here is that I believe things
01:11:58
like that are over sensationalized you know that they they almost Champion the killer when they when you see the
01:12:06
biographies and when you see the documentaries on Ted Bundy both of those things usually come up about his mother
01:12:12
pretending to be his sister and they they kind of gloss over it and give the impression that that took place over the
01:12:19
course of his entire childhood and that's just not the case now the thing that that makes me angry is that when
01:12:26
something good and something positive actually happens in a story like this they don't spend any time on it and this
01:12:32
is what I'm talking about I'm talking about the apprehension of Ted Bundy this took place in the sub in a
01:12:38
suburb of Salt Lake City this is in Granger now this is just good oldfashioned police work and this is the
01:12:45
stuff that should be championed when we're talking about stories like this we have officer Haywood now who is he he's
01:12:52
just a local cop but he's a he's damn good at his job right my hat is off to officer Haywood here because well you
01:12:59
know he might have been a slouch but did this one thing good well I believe that
01:13:04
especially if you're in a smaller town like this that it is very important to your job as a police officer that you
01:13:10
know your town and that you know your Town's people and you know what's going on and in and around your town now he's
01:13:17
sitting there at the end of his shift and he's filling out his police log for the day and his paperwork anything you
01:13:22
know whatever they do at the end of their shift and during the course of this while he's sitting there he sees
01:13:28
this bug this VW pass him more than once and he this is not a vehicle that he recognizes from the town right in the
01:13:38
neighborhood so immediately he's on lert you know when you when you see somebody
01:13:42
come into your town that you don't recognize the vehicle this is good oldfashioned police work and what's
01:13:47
going on in this area is there is a home that is very close by where the the officer is parked and he's filling out
01:13:55
his paperwork now who is this home belong to this belongs to people that he knows that are on vacation they're away
01:14:03
and the home is only being occupied by the two older teenage daughters now he sees this V VW Bug almost you know more
01:14:13
than once almost like like a shark circling its prey where it he he believes that that this vehicle has an
01:14:22
interest in that home right and so now he's he's very curious about this vehicle so using his cop car
01:14:29
he's going to approach the vehicle and attempt to do a routine traffic stop M well the car does not want to pull over
01:14:38
and this turns into a bit of a Chase but it's not like it's not like a super crazy you know like you see on TV cops
01:14:45
Chase right wasn't an OJ Chase but but the the person in the car clearly doesn't want to be pulled over
01:14:52
eventually he's pulled over and during the course of which the officer Haywood Mak several observations the first thing
01:15:00
that he notices is that the the front seat of the VW Bug is not it's not like secured it's not it's not screwed in
01:15:09
which is which is extremely rare that's odd yeah and so he starts to question the driver and he wants to know you know
01:15:16
what's what's your backstory who are you and why are you here and the person driving the vehicle explains that his
01:15:22
name is Ted Bundy and that he's a law student in college and that uh he was just in town and he was he was in town
01:15:29
to see a movie um well what movie were you seeing and he was seeing the Towering Inferno is what Ted Bundy says
01:15:37
well the officer says he knows his town the local theater is not showing that movie so again he's on high alert he's
01:15:46
not believing anything that this guy says and he wants to search the vehicle once he searches the vehicle he finds
01:15:52
what he believes is a burglar kit and inside this kit there's there's more other things here but you he sees panty
01:16:01
hose uh a flashlight a ski mask handcuffs a crowbar an ice pick uh and he also finds quite a bit of gas
01:16:09
receipts and now that he has the car open he's also notic noticed that the door latch handle is missing from the
01:16:16
passenger side door right which is odd as well and this Ted Bundy that he pulled over is dressed all in black
01:16:24
well here's some strange things here he's thinking to himself well a young a young handsome college man who should be
01:16:33
at College trying to pick up a woman instead he's in the middle of this suburb driving around in the middle of
01:16:39
the night dressed all in black this doesn't make sense to me and this is where uh Ted Bundy is picked up and
01:16:46
apprehended and he's arrested on suspicion of burglary and he he would be asked by the officer what are these
01:16:53
items for and he says well you know I I'm a skier so that's why I have a ski mask um right well what's what's the
01:17:00
handcuffs for you know uh well I'm a law student and I use these in class to when
01:17:05
we give our presentations uh so Mr Bunny got has excuse answer for everything uh
01:17:11
but regardless of his answers he finds himself behind bars all right so now we got Ted Bundy and jail and there's so
01:17:18
much more to talk about this so we're going to have to do that in another part yeah I think that covers Us for the Ted
01:17:24
murders portion of this case uh little recommended reading for you today I want to recommend the Bundy murders a
01:17:30
comprehensive history this is by Kevin M solivan uh I really like this book this
01:17:35
book came out just a few years ago but one thing that we're always searching for you know it's like you know it's
01:17:41
kind of like Jack the river there's a hundred books out there right Ted Bundy there's there's so many books out there
01:17:46
and to be honest with you there's only probably a handful maybe 10 that are good that are great books out there this
01:17:53
is definitely so uh the reason why this one's so good is it just came out a few years ago and at first my initial
01:18:00
thought was oh great another Bundy book this this Kevin M Sullivan just wants to
01:18:04
make a name for himself by telling the same old story that's been told 100 times that's not the case there's plenty
01:18:11
of new information in this book so if you've read other Bundy books this is one that you'll want to pick up uh
01:18:17
plenty of new information he does a really good job of taking later confessions and later discuss with Bundy
01:18:23
things that would happen much further down the line and piecing them together with with the things that were missing
01:18:29
from the investigations uh and he he's completing the story if you yeah looking back on it hindsight yeah so that's the
01:18:36
Bundy murders a a comprehensive history by Kevin M Sullivan you can pick that up
01:18:41
by going to our website and click on the recommended page we have our books listed there yeah and uh if you go to tr
01:18:49
uh true Crim garage.com and click on our Amazon Banner you can buy anything if you've seen on Instagram I have my
01:18:56
little diver Captain it's the captain diver's helmet that was B Scuba Steve scuba scuba Captain uh that was bought
01:19:05
through Amazon and and they they kick a little love to us at no charge to you so
01:19:12
and for everything true crime garage check out True Crime garage.com make sure you sign up on the mailing list and
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make sure you tell a friend about the show it goes a long way and all social media follow us Snapchat now on on what
01:19:26
is it called untapped untapped uh you can follow Nick on on untapped uh at True Crime garage if you follow me on
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there don't judge me don't judge all the drinking that's going on on a Tuesday please don't there will be judging all
01:19:41
right that wraps up this show we'll see you guys tomorrow and until next time be
01:19:45
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