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foreign Little Miss Colorado six-year-old murder victim JonBenet Ramsey unknown Intruder
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her brother [Applause] [Music] JonBenet Ramsey [Applause] they still have not interviewed the
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parents [Music] my life has been held from that type of purpose and I want nothing more than to
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find out who was responsible for this [Music] foreign six a former school teacher John Mark
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Carr confessed out of the blue to the 1996 strangulation of JonBenet and graphic sexual detail on August 17 2006
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Thailand authorities arrested John Mark Carr a 42 year old American teacher he'd
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been living in Thailand on the lamb after facing child pornography charges in the U.S
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Carr had been emailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements about his involvement in
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jonbenet's death the boulder District Attorney's Office wanted to charge him with murder
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he was extradited back to United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder
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this from August 20th 2006 from cnn.com a video titled in Carr's own words a reporter asked I am with the
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Associated Press can you give us a brief statement Carr replies I I love JonBenet
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and she died accidentally reporter asked are you an innocent man Carr says no what happened Carr replies
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um her death was an accident so you were in the basement car says yes the reporter asked can you tell us about
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your connection to the Ramsey family Carr says no he cannot comment on that how did you or how did you get into the
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basement again Carr says no comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now
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how have you been treated Carr says I've been treated okay asked how long had you known JonBenet
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and again he says I have no comment on that here are some other statements made by
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Carr Carr says I was with JonBenet when she died now this is not technically a confession but more of an admission he
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did not say I killed JonBenet just I was with JonBenet when she died another one of Carr's interesting
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statements and this of course is in regards to JonBenet he says it's very important for me that everyone knows
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that I love her very much that her death was unintentional that it was an accident
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then the September 4 2006 issue of People magazine claims they have an exclusive jailhouse interview with John
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Mark Carr turns out this was not the case in fact People magazine interviewed the Thailand authorities who told them
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what car said they say that Carr said the Ramses feel their daughter was brutally murdered and
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she wasn't it looks like that but she wasn't I want them to hear the truth I need closure and her family needs
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closure all of us have gone through enough pain then the boulder district attorney
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announced that they were dropping the charges against John Mark Carr and the JonBenet Ramsey murder they say it turns
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out DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of Carr's DNA secondly a great defense is always a
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good Alibi it has been reported that the police never interviewed Carr's family prior to his arrest and extradition to
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the United States most people know where they were during the Christmas season Carr's family has always said and always
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maintain their statements that Carr was with them when JonBenet was killed but car says the DNA might not match but you
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can't trust the test yeah and it's possible and we can get into the DNA later not matching but it seems like
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he's just seeking out attention and that is a lion [ __ ] princess well he's got a face for camera
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[Laughter] he has a face for radio yeah he no I I'm joking I mean he's he's not uh he's
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fugly right he's Less Pleasant to look at than he is to listen to on July 9th I want to get into this real quick here
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because it's going to translate into further discussion that we'll get into on July 9 2008 Mary Lacy the boulder
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district attorney announced it recently developed touch DNA technology had cleared all members of JonBenet Ramsey's
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family of her slang DNA from an unknown male was found on two articles of clothing on jonbenet's
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person many have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should
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even clear the family at all being John Patsy and Burke right this DNA evidence only proves two things that an unknown
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male was possibly present at the crime scene we do not know where the DNA came from and
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that the DNA does not belong to the Ramsay family as statement analysis.com put it this evidence does not exonerate
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the Ramses it does not prove they were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed JonBenet regardless
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of all of that the DNA found on JonBenet did not match Carr's DNA and the murder
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charges were in fact dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography
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charges I want to stay on this DNA for just a little bit longer because one of the reasons why they believe
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that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes forward or any suspect is that they don't know if
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it's a mixture of DNA it they go well it's a single male that's what they believe it is
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but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a combination
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not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this DNA is a combination
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of it could be a combination of multiple people therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing multiple
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people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA and it was found on two articles
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of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there in that wine cellar which is of Interest I don't
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think it should be ignored I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well and just really agreeing with them
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where several experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to be
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of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply
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for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now DNA that we we can't identify
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that is believed to come from a man doesn't seem to match any of the Ramses but we don't know how it got there or
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how long it was there yeah and it's hard for me to believe that with such a vicious attack there would be no DNA
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left at the scene at all but again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case
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can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated and I actually don't want to fault I don't
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want to fault law enforcement too much for that because I I do believe they went into this situation going it's a
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kidnapping and yes what they should have done is stop everything and go let's make sure that this is actually
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kidnapping and there's no child in this house but they missed that step and that
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caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date it happened on I think it's reasonable to see why they
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missed that step I I somewhat agree with you I but I disagree in a sense that I don't think that anybody in the public
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should feel any less safe on December 26th than they would any other time of year any other date that I
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agree that's on the calendar yeah and and you're right in in a way that because it's been by Boulder Colorado's
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own detectives and police that state this couldn't have happened on a worse day this is the day that it's toughest for
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us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just a it's a bad day scheduling wise no right but it
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turns out it's a great day to commit a murder right but what I mean by that is that maybe that these officers would
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miss a step one because it's right after a holiday but two because they just spent time with their friends and family
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and so when you hear oh we have a kidnapping like I said it could just be as simple
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as well we're gonna believe the parents right away when maybe they want it if it
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was three weeks later yeah I also think that my wishes truly are that Boulder Police Department that they would have
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treated it as a kidnapping as soon as they were notified of a kidnapping and that does not appear to have taken place
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to me right let's talk about Linda Hoffman Pew she worked for the Ramses she was their housekeeper this is one
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thing that separates her from many of the other people that we've already discussed she had a key to the home she
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had a key to the Ramsay's house her husband Mervin worked with Linda and for the Ramses on a few occasions on the
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evening of 12 27 1996 this is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched upon at the the Ramsey
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home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home and they wanted her to write the number 118
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000 on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints in several strands of her hair at that time as well
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Linda confirmed the police's suspicions of JonBenet possibly having a bed-wetting problem
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there are several Publications that say Linda accuses Patsy Ramsey of killing JonBenet and it appears that she did I
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believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning that the Ramses put Linda and her
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husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family pointed to them as well
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the extended Ramsay family member told police Linda had asked Patsy for a loan many Publications out there stated that
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the Ramses refused to help her out and Linda's family was struggling and desperately needed the money this sounds
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very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of Suspicion but let's clear a bunch of things up here Linda did in
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fact ask Patsy for a loan the loan amount was for two thousand dollars and Patsy and John
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they agreed to help her out they gave her the money and the agreement was that they would take two hundred dollars out
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of each of her paychecks until the loan was paid back yeah that makes sense also
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it wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money yes her and her husband struggled at times but she had a good
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job working for the Ramses and Mervin was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well
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the loan was for car repairs and dental work these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that
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spring up without notice we have all experienced this right let's keep in mind too even more so than the Ramses
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the police were considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation do you
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see some of the reports that speculate that there was as many as 20 keys not not accounted for I've seen multiple
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numbers reported over the years one thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working the case
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was the when they first started off investigating the murder as soon as they knew it was a murder
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they wanted to know who had keys and how many were out there and that number that
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was provided to them by the Ramses was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to find
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now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless of what some of these Publications say that
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are out there Linda when first questioned by police never suggested that Patsy or John were guilty of
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anything other than loving their children she even stated that she worried about
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the beautiful little girl meaning JonBenet who was allowed to ride her bike unsupervised and said someone must
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have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward
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an unknown Intruder rather than the Ramses Mervin however told police that the few
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times he was in the home he found the home to be very difficult to navigate saying if you just turned around you'd
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get lost this statement pointing toward an Insider if it was an intruder of course Hoffman Pugh does not even fit
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the profile the police were working with which was white male former convict 25 to 30 years old Hoffman Pugh was 57 at
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the time and her husband was about the same age years later she did testify in front of
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a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement against Patsy that
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read quote I think she had multiple personalities should be in a good mood and then should be cranky she got into
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arguments with JonBenet the Linda Hoffman Pew Theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting JonBenet down
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into the basement that night an attempt to trick her employers into leaving money for her Ransom it is possible that
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she could have seen John Ramsey's pay stub for one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars as a bonus
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familiar with both the home and the family's schedule Hoffman Pugh makes a convenient suspect and without a solid
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Alibi she says she was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch she has however never been
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formally accused of this crime and there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by
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mainly a lot of it coming from Patsy's mother now we've spent the last episode and portion of this episode discussing
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some of the people we believe should be in the conversation of suspects there they're nobody in there
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that we are specifically saying should be a suspect just when you want to look at people that you might want to look
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into with the investigation these would all be people that the captain and I would take a look at there are a few
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people that we haven't discussed yet and that would be some true insiders in this
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case the three Ramsay family members that were inside the home obviously we cannot discuss every person
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that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out there yeah I mean we we
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thought about after the second episode just go and screw it let's do a hundred episodes
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on this case but then we decided against that well just the suspects alone would
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be extremely exhausting one to report and two to listen to as well because the Ramses John and Patsy Supply Boulder
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police with a list of suspects the list that they gave to police now it grew as the investigation went on right but the
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latest report that I heard was that that number was at 168. that the Ramses gave the police
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department 168 people to look at and obviously their names were not included on this list so right but if
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your child was murdered and you weren't involved at some point you would start just naming everybody you knew just to
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have them look at anybody because they're not at this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads they
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have uh where they're going how close they are so at some point you're you start
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becoming desperate I get that and that's that just like everything else in this case is where you can take one bit of
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information and you could use it to argue for or against the Ramses yeah so where every one of us would expect
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innocent people to supply a very lengthy list and a desperation to find Justice for their daughter
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the flip side of that is the suspicion of going well they have something to hide so they're providing
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police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands and chores to do to really steer the direction of
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the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit we do have statements by Patsy Ramsey
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who says at some point in the investigation she was suspicious of uh saying that she believed the killer
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could have been a Colorado University student well that adds several thousands more
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people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things the other thing that I found
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interesting about this and this is actually a real I think this is a very possibly legit answer we do know that
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the Ramses did provide a suspect list that's not in question that absolutely happened what I believe is in question
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is the number of people that the Ramses put on that list right because that number has been reported all over the
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shop it's a pretty high number I'll say that but I found this statement to be it's really a response that John Ramsey
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had it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of Innocence or possibly his level of he thinks he
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might be set up being wrongfully accused of something it was this one of his friends contacted
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him their conversation was Ramsay wanted to know well why did you say you said some things about me that I
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didn't really like right and his friend or acquaintance I don't know that the strength of their
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relationship and the the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in
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my opinion but the friend says to John well I only said that stuff because uh or I only said that you should be a
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suspect because police came to me and told me that you told them that I should be a suspect right
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and John Ramsey's response to that was look I didn't say you should be a suspect
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they're just telling you and telling everybody else out there in our our Circle of Friends
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and co-workers that we have said everybody else is a suspect they're they're trying to stir
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the pot is what John Ramsey's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so
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that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's really one of those really
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difficult things to kind of sift through who is right who is wrong and what this
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particular thing could mean I in the beginning of of this investigation thought that that number of 168 people
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named as suspects by the Ramsay was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying to hide right
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as I go through it I question that action less and less and less one thing we do need to talk about too
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which added suspicion in the Public's eye to the Ramses and I believe it added suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement
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as well working the case is what has always been referred to as the Ramses hiding behind a wall of
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lawyers and some people have even gone as far to call this wall of lawyers team Ramsey
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the one of the attorneys hired by the Ramses was this is from an old case and it's from representation to a person
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named Lee Lindsay her husband was shot to death inside their home now Lee Lindsay was found innocent John
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hired that same defense attorney to represent him it's an interesting strategy again it's
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just another one of those things that you could argue either side this points to him having something to hide this
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points to him just wanting good representation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused
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John and Patsy had different attorneys and Burke had his own attorney as well now we should point out they're all paid
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for by John Ramsey but they're all receiving separate representation some people point to that as being
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very strange or something very weird I really to me Captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I
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would I would really want somebody with a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should
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feel one way or the other about it I don't really think that it points to anything I think
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again initially it pointed to me that well if let's pretend I'm the husband and and
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there's what does that make me Patsy when you're not involved in this okay if I'm the husband in a situation where
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my my child has been killed and the police are now looking at me and my wife as potential suspects which you know
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they're going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent but I don't fully know if my spouse is
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innocent right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if I had if I were a man of
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money then I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two
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different people because my interest in her interest in this investigation are not the same and
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therefore we need different representation yeah it'd be awesome if you're a man of money because we could
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turn on the heat in the garage now the flip side of that is what if I know that I'm innocent and I know my wife to be
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innocent as well I know that a very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us
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and question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations thus making it impossible
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for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both of us during that situation right
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you see how this pendulum swings back and forth it's it's aggravating it's interesting it's truly a fascinating
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case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I view it from the standpoint of what
00:25:08
John Ramsey says the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the crime they have
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Burke talked to investigator without anybody present they also send Burke to their friend's house where he could have
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said God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened
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what John Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their
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friends saying you probably should get a lawyer to help you through all this but
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when the police would not give back her body so they could have the burial that's when John said that was the line
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drawn in the sand and you don't want to give our dead child back so we can bury her until you
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have a sit down sit-down conversation with both him and Patsy and I think at that
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point he realized this was kind of war and I think he was I don't even think it was whether it was
00:26:10
right or wrong I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful
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and from then on I'm not going to play by your rules [Music] [Music] all right cheers mates
00:26:40
cheers Captain this week we are sipping on a little Christmas Ale by the good people at Great Lakes Brewing Company
00:26:46
garage grade that would be five bottle caps pick up some Christmas Ale for yourself for your
00:26:54
family for this year's festivities all right Captain we are kind of the point now where we're really only left with
00:27:02
about three people left to discuss and these would be the complete total insiders in this whole entire case
00:27:11
the three Ramsay family members that were inside the home the night that JonBenet was killed
00:27:19
we mentioned yesterday the experts or several people that stated that they believe in an intruder theory is the
00:27:27
best theory for this case regarding The Insider Theory we have CBS Robert wrestler Greg McQueary Dr Cyril wecht
00:27:36
and Steve Thomas two retired FBI agents that is the flip side of the coin of John Douglas I guess and we have Cyril
00:27:46
wecht who is an expert in forensics as well as Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin for Lou Smith Lou
00:27:55
Smith was brought in to work this investigation for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors
00:28:03
Steve Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a detective at
00:28:09
the time and he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation the strange thing being here is that
00:28:17
these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had two completely
00:28:25
different opinions on what happened what took place who was responsible for the murder and both of them
00:28:33
believed so strongly in their Theory that the evidence that they could see backed up what they suspected so much so
00:28:42
that both of them eventually resigned from working the case at all and that's pretty strong commitment to your theory
00:28:50
yeah 100 percent we have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to
00:28:58
use in regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA
00:29:04
Alibis alibis the only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with and agree with
00:29:14
that have been officially cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and there were only
00:29:22
four of them and that would be John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey John's two older children right as well as Fleet
00:29:32
and Priscilla White those four have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those
00:29:39
statements this being basically that it was proven to be physically impossible for any of
00:29:46
these four people to be involved because they have an iron-clad alibi the two older children were not even in the
00:29:53
state of Colorado they would need to either own a private jet or a time machine to or teleport yeah have
00:30:00
possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with Fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of
00:30:06
they had a bunch of guests at their home overnight and there's just multiple people stating that until the wee hours
00:30:15
of the morning they're both accounted for it's not like one of these statements like oh we went to bed at
00:30:20
eight o'clock and I didn't get up and do anything until the next morning no they
00:30:23
were up hanging out with these people until until the wee hours of the morning they were pulling what I call a crispy
00:30:31
kernel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a
00:30:39
child and this case was in the news that there were people screaming at the top of their lungs the parents did it the
00:30:46
parents did it and then years later a popular Theory came out that maybe the brother did it either way for somebody
00:30:54
in the home to have killed JonBenet without question there has to be a cover-up and then you have to go to the
00:31:03
extent of how many people do you believe were to be involved in that cover-up and
00:31:08
why the the need for the cover-up in the first place John Ramsey was a popular suspect early
00:31:14
on and this would be based off of the salacious photos that came out of this young six-year-old blonde and these
00:31:21
beauty pageants wearing clothing and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate
00:31:26
and you carry that out a little further people wondered well could she have been sexually abused was
00:31:34
there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such abuse
00:31:42
the other thought here is we have Patsy Ramsey the Patsy Ramsey Theory to me is is I think
00:31:52
I was going to say interesting but I don't think that's the right word I think it's complicated is is the better
00:31:57
word and I say that because in regards to Patsy having killed JonBenet and then covered it up
00:32:06
it seems like there could be many motivating factors for Patsy right where with John it seems pretty cut and dried
00:32:14
that it's just either that he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to this and then it was covered up now well
00:32:23
it seems like we have evidence that points against the idea that she was abused long-term
00:32:29
and the the where the place where this Theory then splits is you could go okay well did
00:32:36
Patsy help him cover up cover it up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the Patsy Theory it's
00:32:44
it's a number of things it could be that JonBenet with the bed and there was an attack an impulsive attack that took
00:32:53
place and then it was covered up later or she was in some weird way jealous that her daughter is being molested by
00:33:02
her husband and flew into some kind of Rage yeah or it's possible that she was molesting her daughter herself she was
00:33:11
molesting the daughter one interesting Theory too is that John's molesting the daughter in in some type of
00:33:18
what was meant to be a heroic act to come in and and attack this man attack her husband who's violating her daughter
00:33:28
that in some freak accident she accidentally struck JonBenet in the head instead and then
00:33:35
they worked together to cover it up the theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then there's others that
00:33:43
that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where
00:33:50
that might even get more complex but I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that JonBenet was not being
00:34:00
molested for years so to me that rules out Patsy molesting JonBenet or John molesting JonBenet I
00:34:11
also would find it very strange to have a situation where we have molestation of a child of your own child
00:34:21
in a house that there is no pornography at all found or any claims At All by any
00:34:29
friends they had a lot of close friends no claims whatsoever about child abuse so to me I think you can take that off
00:34:40
the table I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was
00:34:47
what was going on long term and I backed that up by saying look this John was not a first time father
00:34:56
okay he had other children that have nothing but good things to say about him usually with an offender that would
00:35:04
would reoffend on the same victim over and over again it's not uncommon that they just
00:35:09
victimize one child right but it's more common that they victimize more than one
00:35:15
of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of the this was a young girl that was very well
00:35:25
cared for in the sense that she had 27 doctors visits in the course of three years now some people call that into
00:35:32
suspicion I'm fine with that it's suspicious to me too but what's not suspicious is a lot of times when there
00:35:39
is some form of physical abuse or sexual abuse you're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up
00:35:46
because sometimes a doctor can detect these things or can question marks on a child
00:35:53
there's things with with JonBenet and and her body and and the examines the the examinations of her body and these
00:36:02
doctor visits I don't think that we can 100 rule out the possibility of some type of sexual abuse it just
00:36:13
doesn't seem like anybody people that have first-hand knowledge of all these situations and of JonBenet it
00:36:21
doesn't seem that anybody leans that direction right these are these are things that could be explained Away by
00:36:27
sexual abuse but also could be explained away a million other ways and have been
00:36:32
irritations due to wetting the bed wetting yourself irritations to bubble bath you know any number of different things
00:36:41
going on here so yeah I'm with you Captain I don't see a situation where we have long-term sexual abuse now that
00:36:48
doesn't mean that sexual abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened
00:36:53
here it very well could be that this was the very first time that this ever took
00:36:58
place and it went it ended in Murder right I think if you believe that then you have to believe the evidence of the
00:37:06
autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the
00:37:10
23rd so again like you said it's new developing um sexual molestation but by a parent I
00:37:22
just I just don't see it there I just think there's such a lack of evidence of that and I think it makes maybe a little
00:37:30
more sense with the idea of this bed wedding becomes a issue and the person that's dealing with it constantly is
00:37:39
Patsy and so something happened there but again it it's strange to me it's just it's this is so complicated
00:37:54
because you have to start picking what happened first and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of
00:38:03
the skull happen first so if that did happen first and somebody could prove to me that happened first
00:38:11
then I'd go well yeah Patsy got a little upset and and pushed her and she hit her
00:38:16
head or she accidentally hit hit JonBenet on top of the head with something and then use this grunt to
00:38:24
cover it up but I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you can you clear up what
00:38:33
you mean by something occurring on the 23rd well because the because they examined
00:38:39
our claims that the the day that she was murdered there's evidence that there's digital molestation right
00:38:49
and that but there's also evidence that it would have happened and when we use the word chronic he was stating that it
00:38:58
probably happened on the 22nd or the 23rd so there's evidence of some kind of molestation on the day she was murdered
00:39:08
and then on the 22nd and the 23rd so meaning if it was somebody on the inside it could have been the second
00:39:16
time that such an act took place yeah I'm just I'm taking that off the table because to me it doesn't there's no
00:39:24
evidence that points and I just there's no evidence that points that John Ramsey was doing that there's no
00:39:32
evidence that points that Patsy Ramsey was doing that no I agree with you too I'm not willing
00:39:38
to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place right and
00:39:47
look she's in the company of her family more than anybody else she's a six-year-old child
00:39:52
so I won't take it off the table when they're still there's still reason to leave it on the table
00:39:58
I think the the difficulty with this case as you were the road you were starting
00:40:05
to go down there is one it's it's a it's a general misconception in this case that the belief that she was struck on
00:40:16
the head and then strangled with this garage and the whole strangulation of the garage was an act to cover up an
00:40:26
accidental hit to the Head a strike to the Head which of course duh anybody could make a
00:40:32
case for that to have been Patsy Burke John what have you the problem being is it seems that all
00:40:41
the experts seem to agree that the strangulation came first and the strike on the head
00:40:49
occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me is that the use
00:40:57
of this garage of this strangulation of whatever was happening before JonBenet was struck on the head
00:41:06
you it can't be a cover-up in the sense that the garage was not used as a cover-up
00:41:12
the strangulation was not used as a cover-up this occurred before the strike on the head right and then there's
00:41:19
multiple things to point us to this one she has defensive wounds meaning that JonBenet when she was being strangled
00:41:28
with this grot she tried to pull it off her neck and there's indents all over her neck
00:41:35
fingernail indents to show that she was conscious when she was being choked and she tried to stop
00:41:43
it if she was hit on the head that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture
00:41:51
would have left her probably brain dead she would have had severe brain swelling
00:41:58
she would have had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be conscious to stop this attack
00:42:11
now is it possible that she was strangled for a while hit on the head and then strangled again
00:42:16
that's very possible but this idea that she was hit on the head first it's just it makes zero sense and I always
00:42:27
believed the CBS reports when I watched the first CBS documentary I went well there you go
00:42:36
that that seems like it makes a lot of sense and you have these paid investigators
00:42:43
and these forensic experts sitting on this board going yeah this is probably what happened or something to
00:42:53
that this effect you have to believe again the idea that JonBenet comes up and takes some
00:43:06
pineapple away from her brother and then he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object maybe
00:43:12
the flashlight that's what they said in the CBS report I think you said you don't think a
00:43:19
nine-year-old would be strong enough to do that blow I lean towards your expertise on that
00:43:26
but it's also you can't see the fracture you can see the fracture after the autopsy that's because to put it bluntly
00:43:37
they removed the skin right you can't there was no laceration there was no open head wound right she's not bleeding
00:43:44
all over the place the medical examiner the pathologist Dr Myers He was unaware of the Blow To The Head until till well
00:43:54
into the examination of the body right going off of sightseeing of what he sees at the at the uh crime scene and
00:44:02
what he sees on the body of the victim he's immediately going oh this was strangulation pretty obvious the rope's
00:44:10
still around her neck sorry right but it wasn't until further examination did he
00:44:16
discover this strike to the head and I'm look there have been experts out there again I'm no expert
00:44:25
but you're expert in the garage there have been experts out there that said yes a nine-year-old could do
00:44:34
could carry out this type of violent strike to the head of a small child and cause this amount of damage
00:44:41
I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and unfortunately had to stare at him long enough I refuse to believe
00:44:50
that I I simply it it look at the pictures man let's go down this road for a second because
00:44:56
let's just say he was able to do that blow and let's just say that you can say Patsy saw him hit her
00:45:07
or didn't see Burke hit her at some point she comes upon her lifeless body but guess what she's still breathing
00:45:20
she is still breathing so maybe some time passes but you're going to tell me this mother that loves
00:45:29
her daughter isn't just going to call the ambulance because guess what we have evidence of what happens
00:45:37
when Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf club he gets in trouble they take her to the
00:45:45
emergency room do you think she comes upon her lifeless child's body but guess what the child is breathing
00:45:55
so you you want to tell me that she's not going to just call 9-1-1 and say hey we we need help we need the ambulance
00:46:05
because she would have no clue she is not a medical examiner she's not a doctor she's not a nurse
00:46:12
she has no clue you're I would assume that most people most adults that came across a six-year-old
00:46:21
that was unconscious and there was no evidence of her where she was hit that they want to call 9-1-1
00:46:30
to try to save their daughter's life so people want you to think that she just automatically
00:46:37
assumed that she was dead decided to make a garage and start choking her violently
00:46:46
not like half hazardly violently and choker so much that that rope moves places but then somehow during all this
00:47:00
JonBenet comes to and then defends the choking and once her child comes too she goes oh
00:47:08
well it's too late for you we're just covering this up for Burke we got to save Burke and then she continues to
00:47:15
choke and then we're gonna stage some molestation but again the evidence points that not
00:47:23
only did it happen that day but it probably happened a couple days before so did you stage that too
00:47:31
and then we got to start staging all these other things now we got to write this Ransom note
00:47:36
it just doesn't make a lot of sense and regardless if it makes sense or not the science doesn't back any of that up
00:47:43
that's what the science backs up is that she was strangled and then struck in the
00:47:48
head in that exact order right and what what backs that up is the what the science shows is a slowing of
00:47:58
the blood moving to the brain at that time right that's one piece of evidence meaning that she was either in the act
00:48:06
of dying when she was struck on the head or very you know she's in the act of dying or very close to death right
00:48:14
something is causing blood to be slowed or stop going to the brain and then she's struck in the head what stopped
00:48:22
that was the strangulation that was going on with the garage yeah at the time that she was struck on
00:48:28
the head so you're not using the garage to cover up being struck in the head you're not using sexual abuse to
00:48:35
cover up the strike to the Head what you have here is a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and
00:48:43
a a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the air to the to six-year-old to a six-year-old and then
00:48:55
during the commission of doing all that there is a strike to the Head whether the offender struck her on the head
00:49:01
because he believed she was dead and wanted to make sure or wanted to strike her on the head to cover up and confuse
00:49:08
what was going on at the scene we can't say we can't say that but what we can say based off of the science is that the
00:49:15
act of strangulation was taking place before the strike to the Head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our
00:49:23
list if you're going to believe that Burke possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being
00:49:33
choked before being struck on the head you have to take it a step further and say well he was he built this fancy
00:49:39
garage and he was choking her and then yeah and and look it makes for a good story but I don't
00:49:46
see the evidence to suggest that that's what in fact occurred what I do see evidence of is a
00:49:53
the problem with the people in the house is we have John who could be guilty we have
00:49:59
Patsy who could be guilty and then we could have all three that Were Somehow in on it together one thing that I
00:50:06
believe you can absolutely cross off your list and take off the table is that Burke did all of this by himself
00:50:13
take that one off because he's nine years old he didn't write that letter he didn't write that Ransom letter he
00:50:19
didn't construct that garage I don't know why a nine-year-old would be into this type of sexual assault that
00:50:27
I believe to be taking place in that basement right or how they would even know about that at all and then you
00:50:34
would have to convince me that he's strong enough to inflict that severe severe Blow To The Head and he also has
00:50:43
to write the note by himself right so there's and yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated
00:50:51
knots I just don't see that been a possibility and again maybe a heavy enough object
00:50:58
maybe you can create the fracture I'd be more interested to see if a nine-year-old could
00:51:05
inflict the damage around the neck with the grot because you'd have to be pulling pretty
00:51:13
pretty hard so I I just don't see it here's my thing though is I've been thinking about this a lot why did I
00:51:21
watch the CBS report and why did I believe that and some of it is because they just omit
00:51:29
certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right you have some uh agenda you have some
00:51:40
point you're trying to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your
00:51:47
Point makes the most sense but I started thinking well well why does you know looking at the evidence that
00:51:55
we've done for the last few months why did America why it seems like almost all of America was fooled by this but I
00:52:04
think it's because it's easier it's easier to think that this was an accident it's easier to
00:52:13
think that a six-year-old would accidentally hit on the head by her brother the parents did not know what to
00:52:19
do they were scared that they're going to lose their son and then they did these horrible things
00:52:25
but on some level on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions
00:52:35
because they didn't want to lose their son because maybe there was something wrong
00:52:39
with their son we've only seen one interview with him which is a very odd interview
00:52:47
as he has grown up I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil but I think
00:52:55
when you see him as a child there's some strangeness in those interviews too but look it's a nine-year-old kid being
00:53:05
interrogated or being questioned after his little sister was murdered but I think it's easier to come to that
00:53:14
conclusion it's easier to think that than to think somebody took the time to make a device
00:53:25
to put around a six-year-old's neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and
00:53:34
oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choked the life out of this little girl and
00:53:46
they either got so excited that they decided to smash her on the head splitting her skull pretty much in half
00:53:58
or like I have theorized that maybe after she was dead that when they were trying to carry her
00:54:06
out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left
00:54:14
but I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel it's almost it's harder to imagine the latter
00:54:22
it's also very difficult to imagine that the parents did this it's almost easier than in a sense too
00:54:30
that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act and such a terrible attack on a child yeah
00:54:38
this is a very unpopular opinion but I lean toward the Intruder Theory as one that I feel to be more likely
00:54:51
I'm not willing to rule other possibilities out well again just with the with the Damage
00:54:58
Done the physical damage done to the victim what I see here is something that is beyond probably the
00:55:08
capabilities of the Ramses and I know that it happens all the time in America and
00:55:17
other countries as well right where a parent does something horrible unspeakable acts to their own child I
00:55:26
understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't make what I believe to be an educated
00:55:34
decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and what
00:55:41
my gut tells me is that from the pictures that I've seen of the Damage Done I feel like this this had to be an
00:55:51
intruder and I I will take that a step further by stating the the garage itself the construction of the garage the
00:56:00
construction of those knots that too appears to me to point toward a certain level of sophistication
00:56:09
meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the Ramses are simply
00:56:16
trying to cover something up they've had they've never had a reason to construct
00:56:20
one before well all the items that made the garage made the ransom letter all everything
00:56:27
came from inside the house Nick well that's not in fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot
00:56:34
be ruled out as having caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but
00:56:42
we don't have any proof that there was an item inside the home that did in fact make that wound this made that strike to
00:56:50
the Head Right plus you got a scene that's very contaminated Plus on top of that just look at the pictures
00:56:56
we're talking about like to me extremely messy house which I would think would make
00:57:05
investigating a crime scene way harder so how does this all work out if in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is
00:57:12
how it plays out again I'm not willing to say this is 100 I'm not willing to not say that there are other
00:57:20
possibilities this is at the end of the day I put 51 percent of my eggs in this basket
00:57:28
if this is how the Intruder Theory goes down this is how it works and makes sense for me
00:57:34
yeah that she was targeted somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this child for
00:57:43
the purpose of sexual assault they may have broke into the home before or after the family came home I don't
00:57:52
know it seems to point to me more likely that they may have entered the home while the Ramses were gone right during
00:58:00
this time they brought with them a letter that they copied using stuff that they found in the home
00:58:09
using the felt pen we know that occurred using Patsy's notepad we know that occurred yeah and writing why they have
00:58:16
gloves on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints the difficulty with the letter itself is we have bark didn't
00:58:24
write it according to the analyst John didn't write it and then they put Patsy at the low end of the spectrum for
00:58:33
possibly writing it I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier it would be irresponsible to
00:58:40
eliminate anybody based off of handwriting analysis the thing here though Captain is what
00:58:47
would be the purpose of a ransom letter I also stated and I believe you backed me up on this that the letter itself is
00:58:56
a farce what I meant by that is that there was no there was never any belief by the the author of that letter
00:59:05
or desire to actually collect any money from the family right the letter itself was simply a giant speed bump
00:59:15
to persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the victim
00:59:25
Nick that never happens why would why would they add to the added risk of of putting themselves out there like that
00:59:32
just to buy some more time well I can point to one situation where in fact did happen
00:59:40
Amy mihalovic was abducted from the shopping plaza and allowed to call her mother at work after being in
00:59:50
the presence of the abductor yeah simply for the reason of delaying the mother being aware that there was
00:59:58
something wrong and guess what if the Ramses would have followed the instructions on that Ransom letter
01:00:06
they wouldn't have contacted the police but they did one thing that I find weird about the
01:00:13
note and we never discussed this uh the other day here Captain but one thing that I found extremely strange with
01:00:19
inside the note itself was how the author speaks in absolutes all the way up to one point and then
01:00:29
leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of opportunity to foil the abductor's plan
01:00:36
where the author says if you do this she dies if you do this she dies if you don't cooperate with us
01:00:45
you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her body all these absolutes she dies beheaded
01:00:53
denied the body right but then later it states if you try to outsmart us you stand a 99
01:01:02
chance of killing your daughter right if you follow our instructions you stand a 100 chance of getting your
01:01:11
daughter back again an absolute but then that 99 percent I I that's what's been keeping me up at
01:01:18
night why would the author leave that one percentage chance that the Ramses could foil the plan and
01:01:26
and I think that's because the author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control
01:01:34
and that if they followed their Instructions Not only would would they get their daughter back but at the very
01:01:41
least if they didn't contact the police there was still one percent chance that the Ramses could outsmart
01:01:46
the attacker I think what occurred really man was the the note was constructed to buy more
01:01:53
time who knows how long this individual intended to keep right right but he believed the note was
01:02:00
it was authentic in a sense that the author wanted the Ramses to believe it but it happened before he actually
01:02:09
yes because if he killed JonBenet he would have never wrote the note to begin with right the note gets a ransom note
01:02:17
gets the FBI involved which I think is another thing which not everybody knows that but it's like if the family was
01:02:25
trying to cover up a murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have the FBI involved
01:02:34
and I wish the FBI was involved from the beginning because if they would have been I think
01:02:40
this case would be solved by now yeah if they wouldn't have located her body in the basement that quickly if that would
01:02:48
have gone 24 hours the FBI would have taken over this case in this investigation regardless of finding her
01:02:55
body later the interesting thing here though Captain I think where this whole thing gets messy it's a complicated case
01:03:01
because there are all these things that you have to explain and you have to explain them and they're not easily
01:03:07
explained away because there are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in
01:03:13
the home but by maybe somebody that lived there nothing is easily explained away because
01:03:19
the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it was intended to
01:03:26
had he been able to remove her from the home right alive I wanna that's how my theory
01:03:34
goes this would have looked and taken on a whole different appearance it would have
01:03:39
taken on a whole different investigation something happened where he realized or
01:03:46
determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the house I don't know what that is
01:03:54
but whatever it is I'm backing up that the motivating factor for this abduction which I believe is what was the
01:04:00
intention here with sexual assault was because this individual had already taken the risk to
01:04:06
get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house they assaulted her inside the home
01:04:15
struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked
01:04:22
and I but I believe that this person knew the house well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement
01:04:30
you're now putting two floors between you and her and her parents now do you think this case is solvable I
01:04:40
was actually listening to somebody on the way here to the garage that was you know an expert
01:04:47
in my opinion a very good expert that was saying they believe the case is still has the potential to be solved based off
01:04:55
of forensic evidence personally I don't feel very good about this case ever being solved and the
01:05:02
problem with that is that's without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying
01:05:10
I did this this is how I did it and then they can pull some evidence together and
01:05:15
go yep we can back up this individual story because of this this and this right where I think this case lends
01:05:22
itself to be unsolvable let's say is in a court of law if you make an arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to
01:05:33
the murder I think it's going to be very difficult to convict based off of public
01:05:38
opinion you could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the perpetrator
01:05:45
doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case whatever right you can move this case to Mars and it's
01:05:53
it's still a mess it's still a convoluted mess there are people out there that feel so strongly about their
01:05:59
opinion and that's why that's why part of me only is willing to go 51 in on this Intruder theory on my thoughts on
01:06:07
the case because I understand why so many people are are firm in their beliefs and in their
01:06:15
opinions of this case because just like you pointed out earlier you watch CBS and you go yep
01:06:21
I think they nailed it now I know what to believe right you watch the a e thing same thing but it's a it's a different
01:06:29
answer it's a different response you read Steve Thomas's book you absolutely believe Patsy did it
01:06:36
you know it's really comes from whoever you get your information from and I actually don't believe that anybody is
01:06:43
out there trying to skew this in any way that's malicious or that's trying to deceive the audience right I think that
01:06:53
there there is evidence that you could argue either way and if you choose to argue it all one way
01:07:00
it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case well and Henry Lee said that he didn't
01:07:07
he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case well I believe what his
01:07:14
statement was that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody
01:07:20
as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law well so one I think they need to
01:07:29
try to come to some kind of understanding and some conclusion with the DNA to figure out
01:07:35
is it a single male is there a mixture I know that they were talking about doing
01:07:41
tests back in 2016 and 2017 I have not I could not find any new results of those
01:07:51
because if we do know because what they could do is they could test that mixture
01:07:55
with female DNA and if they have any trace of female DNA that pops in then they would more likely
01:08:05
it's a mixture and now we gotta go back to the drawing boards but I think they need to figure that out
01:08:11
for one but all all accounts state that it's male DNA it was taken from a um right but it's not clear if it's
01:08:21
two or three or just one yeah that I don't know I do know that it was taken from a um a dual blood sample if you
01:08:31
want to call it that I don't know that's the best way to describe it right but what that tells me is that they're
01:08:37
taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if they're saying that it's
01:08:43
coming from a dual sample then they've already been able to identify what that other where that other sample is coming
01:08:50
from right meaning it came the most obvious answer is the other DNA comes from JonBenet right and
01:08:58
so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule out 100 that
01:09:05
it's not uh you know more than one DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to
01:09:12
conclude is what they're looking at they believe 100 to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA
01:09:22
I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other experts are trying to point out regarding this DNA itself is
01:09:30
that the type of DNA it is is not it's not indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the
01:09:39
commission of any of these crimes regardless of of what crimes you believe took place
01:09:45
this DNA does not have to be there because of a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a
01:09:50
murder what they're saying is the problem with the DNA ultimately right now is that they don't know where it
01:09:58
came from and they don't know how long it was there right meaning there's a chance
01:10:04
it worked its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator fled or after John and Patsy
01:10:13
started covering up the crime right that there's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do with the murder of this
01:10:21
child and that is the problem and until they can figure out you might be able to
01:10:26
clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there it would be a way for you to prove that it's
01:10:32
impossible for it to end up on the body after the fact that it could have only ended up on her during the commission of
01:10:38
these crimes right but if I'm talking with John Ramsey and and John says to me I want to hire you for this case I'd say
01:10:47
John the first thing we need to do is look at this DNA and we need to come to some consensus with multiple experts I'd
01:10:56
also want to pull in some investigators that that believe that it was the family
01:11:02
I'd want to pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they would be our
01:11:09
checks and balances I also think they need to figure out the stun gun Theory I don't know if they can
01:11:17
still do it but I know at the time they were would have been able to uh dig her up and do some tests to figure out if
01:11:27
these were train tracks marks or possibly a stone gun or neither or right and I think that's important I also think
01:11:38
this digital molestation that's what I'm going to call it that possibly happened
01:11:43
on the 22nd or 23rd or the and then then happened the the day of the murder now I say the day of the murder because
01:11:53
that I believe was in the report and I'm going to throw out this Theory and I think there's some investigation
01:12:00
that should be done this is not this is finger molestation they believe a finger was inside her now
01:12:11
you can you can explain in a way in multiple different you know with the wiping aggressive wiping and different things
01:12:20
but most people believe this is some form of molestation I would also argue you have children
01:12:29
playing on the 23rd not always supervised and then the same thing happens on the 25th
01:12:38
was there is there a kid involved and here I'll just put it out there if is it possible a kid did this and it
01:12:49
wasn't meaning harm by it it was just a kid not knowing any better is that making any sense at all it
01:12:58
certainly makes some sense to me but I think that the evidence is showing that to me it shows that
01:13:04
the digital manipulation right is what they they term it occurred and it probably occurred near
01:13:12
at or near the time of her death which I would lean that way I'm just saying is is this a uh something that we can again
01:13:20
it's just like with the train track marks or the stun gun marks I think it starts narrowing things down so if we
01:13:27
can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of I'm going to call it
01:13:34
digital molestation because it's molestation is this happening at the time of her
01:13:40
death rowing that out I also think because there's too many coincidences when you
01:13:46
look at Santa bill there's too many odd things his daughter was kidnapped 22 years before on the
01:13:55
date it's an unsolved kidnapping technically yes they find JonBenet Ramsey in her
01:14:03
house but there's a ransom note so to me it's technically a kidnapping it's an unsolved kidnapping
01:14:11
and this guy like I said I I looked as much as I could into this bear that was found and
01:14:18
you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed I want to know if it really came from
01:14:24
that pageant if they can prove that but here's what we do know Senate bill was hired by multiple people
01:14:31
and worked multiple locations we have tons of evidence out there and here's something that
01:14:39
the public could actually look for if your child had any picture with saying a bill
01:14:45
is there a bear that matches this description I think if it does that's enough of a reason for us to go hey
01:14:54
this this guy needs to be looked into further the other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit
01:15:01
most Santa Clauses wear black boots I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Sanibel what boots are
01:15:10
what boots is um is he wearing at the time and is it possible that their high tech which
01:15:18
would be the marks that were found the shoe shoe prints that were found in the basement
01:15:25
so I think those are things that people can look into now and get us closer to some answers it was
01:15:34
determined that there were more than 100 burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood
01:15:38
in the months before jonbenet's murder there were 38 registered sex offenders living within a two-mile radius of the
01:15:46
Ramsay's home [Music] foreign if you can't get enough of the True Crime garage make sure you check us
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out on Stitcher you can find all of our old episodes and you can find our other show off the Record hey crispy Colonel
01:16:08
what's that Merry Christmas you filthy animal Merry Christmas to everyone out there
01:16:14
thank you for joining us in the garage all year long we hope to see you back here next year Merry Christmas yeah
01:16:21
Merry Christmas and happy New Year cheers to you Captain cheers to all of the True Crime garage Army until next
01:16:27
year be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music]