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[Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a microphone who can tell you what he
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loves the most here is the captain yeah some call me the flavor flave of True Crime it's good to be seen and it's good
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to see you today we are still sipping on this fine beer from Illinois called Devil's paint
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box brewed and canned by Tangled Roots Brewing Company this is a hop forward West Coast style IPA with Columbus
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Cascade shinook and Citra hops all smooth out with Citrus orange and grapefruit for a perfectly balanced beer
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ABV 6.66% garage gra 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of five let's give some big cheers
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and thank yous to our friends for helping us with this week's show first up a shout out to Suzanne and Larchmont
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New York and a big we like your jib goes out to Amy from OKC next up a double fisted cheers to Melody and Eugene from
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Indianapolis and last but certainly not least we have a shout out to Gregory from that bastard State up north his
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words not mine cheers to all of you for helping us out with this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah BW R
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and beer run if you haven't listened to Nick's book the Colonel's book on Audible you need to do yourself a favor
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check out the deli murders by Nick Edwards on Audible and thank me later and Colonel that's enough of the
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business thank you Captain all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] the Starved Rock murders case the triple homicide case from the state park of
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Starved Rock in Illinois has fascinated and intrigued so many people for over six decades now where we left off we had
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walked you through the investigation as it were March of 1960 and now we start off with April
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1960 we're going to go to the 4th of April here Captain the report is we have state troopers and conservation
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department employees they're back at the scene they're back at the St Lewis Canyon they are doing a fine tooth
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combing of the canyon looking for additional evidence because now we've had a situation where the snow has had
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an opportunity to melt away from the scene and they're hoping to find items of evidentiary value because what we have
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not found is what they are referring to as the sex maniac killer or Killers involved in this case one item of
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interest that is found on the 4th of April is inventoried as red wool and there are some red fibers that
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have or believe to have importance in this case what I'm a little confused on with this item in our timeline is this
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item is listed as red wool from the dress of one of the victims but those red fibers that keep coming up in this
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case I don't know if they're one in the same this item on the fourth is simply reported as red wool from the dress of
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one of the victims this leads us to another interesting part on the timeline 5 days later on the 9th we have family
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members uh of one of the victims Mrs oding who they are reporting that her rings are missing remember we talked
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about motive right was this a sexually motivated crime was this something else were they staged to make it look like it
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was a sexually motivated crime the thought was if it wasn't sexual nature could it have been a a robbery attempt
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or a botched robbery here's where we have some evidence that it could be of that nature we have these missing
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valuable rings and jewelry from Mrs oding that's reported by the family some of the sources Captain say that this was
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also reported by family members of Mrs Murphy as well let's go to the following day we have restrictions are lifted so
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what this means is the St Louis Canyon is now reopened to the public for the very first time since the victims were
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found on March 16th 5 days later on the 15th of April we discover that the Rings were
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not missing at all the jewelry was not missing at all persons in the investigation come back and they say
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that we found those missing Rings they were located in the gloves of the victims we also have a report from
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investigators at this time stating that the Starved Rock employees employees of the lodge as well as scores of others in
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the surrounding area have have all been fingerprinted also at this time we get a
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farmer who reports that he saw two hitchhikers in the area around 400 pm. on the day in question March
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14th there is no followup on that information my guess is that they were not able to confirm who these people may
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have been and it's surprising to me that we because we have so many different items at the crime scene but we also
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have so many victims it's Sur surprising to me that they didn't get some kind of
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fingerprint evidence so they could test against somebody yeah and that's the thing here too we talked about the
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fingernails scrapings from the victims being sent off for analysis we also just discussed the Rings The Missing Rings
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being found in the gloves of the victims I think that that's a large part of this
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how cold it was the snow that's coming down we know that at least at least two of the three victims were wearing gloves
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it's also likely then it's not a big leap to think that our killers were wearing gloves maybe not to go
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undetected but just simply because it was so cold outside right so now you're going to have a lack of fingerprint
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evidence based off of that this is where we talk about the gloves again and this
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will end up being a very key part to this case April 18th samples of hair found in
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the women's hands and we'll go through this it's described as the women's hands but it's a little more simpler than that
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a little more simple than that I'm sorry so one glove is analyzed by again this Eastman Kodiak company laboratory they
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found 18 strands of brown hair in the hand of Mrs oding they found eight strands of blonde
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hair on the glove of Mrs Murphy investigators have every reason to believe that this is the hairs of the
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killers and just that short description based off of looking at these items from
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the naked eye using just the naked eye 18 strands of brown hair were found in the hand clenched in the hands of Mrs
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oding and eight strands of blonde hair were found in the glove on the glove of Mrs Murphy if these hairs are different
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from one another as described then I would think the police would have been right with their initial assumption that
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we are looking for more than one perpetrator absolutely we talked about the area being opened back up to the
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public you can now access the St Louis Canyon we do want to be clear here that the papers did point out while they they
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removed the fence and they opened up this general area to the general public that they did continue to keep state
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troopers on hand to maintain guard in and around the star of Rock State Park and this is in large part because one we
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do know that sometimes The Killers will return to the scene we also have the situation where they've not figured out
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who has done this who is responsible yet and you talked about this in episode one
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the level of Terror that we had with the general public we got a boogeyman on the
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loose we got a monster out there who has just killed three prominent women out in
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the open in broad daylight at a state park it shows a killer that's Brazen it shows a killer that is vicious not maybe
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not even afraid to get caught what we would later learn is that the murder investigation would continue for about 8
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months with no arrest at all unfortunately but during this time it would become obvious that Chester weager
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one of the persons discussed in episode one at some point during that eth month's time became the
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primary suspect in this case and he is questioned time and time again throughout that eight months on a
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regular basis now there has been a lot of debate over the years over the decades I should say about how much
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pressure was put on Chester weager and depending on who you talk to there is varying degrees of what the police's
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investigation was and how it involved with chester weager what we're going to bring to the table today is the complete
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record of that this is a matter of state record so it can be debated by whoever wants to debate it by persons in bars
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people in at the uh County Fair in Illinois but this is what the state says per our records and this is what has
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been reviewed time and time again over those decades so this is considered by the state of Illinois to be fact okay so
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the complete record according to the state on March 19th 1960 Chester weager who we would later learn is prime
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suspect number one is interrogated for almost 2 hours now it's difficult for the captain and I to sit here and say
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that on the 19th of March just one month after the murders that he was Prime Suspect number one but I think the state
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record will show you that they're honing in on this guy and the level of questioning and the amount of
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questioning with Mr weager will fully disclose that at some point he does become the prime suspect
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this will lead us to March 24th when weager is again interrogated this time for approximately one and a
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half hours and this is interesting here Captain because the the reason why they are talking to him is in regard to
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something he brought up to them when he spoke with them before he had told them look you know
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from the lodge where I'm working and where the ladies were staying yeah it's like a mile to get there but there's a
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shortcut from the lodge to the St Louis Canyon that I know about this is where the bodies were found I know about this
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this shortcut because I often walk the woods he he's he's a guy that says his entire life he enjoyed walking in the
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woods a lot of times by himself he found it to be peaceful tranquil there's a lot
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of people that do this type of Hobby and find relaxation and a place to clear your mind taking a nice walk he's saying
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there's a shortcut to this St Louis Canyon from the lodge so in this hour and a half
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interview interrogation whatever you want to call it they are specifically talking to him about
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this element of the investigation two days later on the 26th they spend an hour with Chester
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weager in the canyon Mr weager then is taken back to his apartment after this hour in the
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canyon where the investigators are asking him about his buck skin jacket or it's also described I believe as a a
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leather jacket at times or a suede jacket yeah I believe that there was a eyewitness that claims to see a a
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vehicle with some gentlemen one matching this leather jacket description I mean it it sticks out I mean it just screams
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Bon Jo it screams Blaze of Glory Bon joy and it's a unique I don't know how unique it would be for the time but I
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would describe this buck skin jacket as unique right it's got the the tassels they ask him about this jacket
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he has no problems like he's very forthcoming and all the investigators say this it's not like he's being
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disgruntled or he's not willing to answer their questions or show up for these interviews and interrogations he
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meets them in the canyon he shows them the shortcut he takes them back to his apartment where he shows them the buck
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skin jacket and as the captain points out that with a witness statement the police are starting to believe that the
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killer could have been wearing a similar type of jacket or at least someone who approached the women or were seen
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talking to some women was wearing a similar jacket on the day that the murders occurred
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we do know at some point captain that they they take samples they even like cut away pieces of this jacket and
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photograph this jacket I have to believe that this is when that occurred now let's go out almost a month
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later April 20th Chester weager was again questioned this time for about 12 hours during which time it's reported
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that he took six lie detector tests this is according to the state this is not according to Chester
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weager he took six lie detector tests the Troopers in charge of the investigation admitted later the
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intensity of the investigation would put a strain on those who were investigating
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this case they also admitted that they wanted to put a strain on the persons that they
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thought might be responsible or persons that may have information and later people will come
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forward and say Chester weager who has a limited education The Strain on those subjects
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could be heightened could possibly be heightened now he's interviewed again for 12 hours during this time he takes
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six lie detector tests he does not conf confess anything he never admits that he
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was there he says he wasn't there he said he's never killed anyone and nor is he charged by police with any offenses
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at this time this will bring us to September 27th we have to introduce a man by the
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name of Deputy dumm he is working with the LEL County Sheriff's Office he goes and he picks up Chester
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weager he's been involved in this case from very early on but it's the first time that his name is presented in our
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timeline on the 27th of September Chester weager is given several lie detector tests between the hours of 9:00
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a.m. and please make mental note of this this is not an error between the hours of
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9:00 a.m. and 1 a.m. think about that amount of time 9:00 a.m. to 11: a.m. that they are
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interviewing and giving several lie detector test to this individual who's already we know has already been given
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the polygraph test six times during this interview on the 27th of September Chester weager makes the following
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comments about the investigation he would say that a man by the name of John Reed was there interrogating him who
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spent several hours of that interrogation pleading with chester to confess we know
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you did this just tell us you did it tell us the truth he also says that he John Reed threatened to give him truth
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serm right if if you're not going to tell us the truth we can inject you with this truth serm and we're going to get
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the truth from you anyway Chester weager says that at some point during this interogation he was
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instructed to answer yes to all questions in the lie detector test the next lie detector test that he would be
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taking including those for which a yes would be an admission of guilt now keep in mind we have to point
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out here this is Chester weager comments the state recognizes those comments and has put them in this
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record however other persons there we do not have them giving the same statements
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in regard to the interaction or what he was told or how he was treated on the 27th of
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September right on the same day Chester wiger is driven to the Lal State's Attorney's office after the lie detector
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test that he took earlier that day the assistant States Attorney this is Craig Armstrong testified that during the ride
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Deputy dummit several times told Chester weager he would be sent to the electric
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chair and I believe he was using the phrase you're going to ride the Thunderbolt if you don't confess you're
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going to ride the Thunderbolt I think it was the lightning bolt now let's go to Mid October 1960
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the Illinois State Police they decide that we are going to unleash 24hour surveillance on Chester weager
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and it's reported in the state record that they maintained 24-hour surveillance on this individual that
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that's not cheap takes a lot of manh hours they maintain this 24-hour surveillance on him for four weeks for a
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period of four weeks during that time state troopers drove Chester weager to work and had
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pictures taken of him this so that sentence is very important because what we would later learn is it wasn't like
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they were tailing him in trying to be super stealth mode spy about this they were they kind of wanted him to
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know we're following you right it was part of their tactic part of their strategy so from mid October to Mid
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November he surveilled for 24 hours a day this leads us to November 16th 1960 when Chester weager was questioned
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at length so is this the third time he's questioned so he's I'm losing track here
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is it now the fourth time he was originally interviewed like on the 17th and but that was a very friendly hay
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we're interviewing everybody that works here and that's the 17th of March just days after they were killed and then
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he's interviewed a handful of times and sometimes for a very lengthy period of time
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over and over and over again in this eight months that follows so he's questioned on the 16th
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this is going to lead us to November 17th at 2 a.m. when Chester weager finally breaks down and
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confesses this time after about eight or so hours of questioning and there's a lot more that
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goes into this too as far as what has been reported over the years but I wanted to point out what is this is all
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agreed upon by the state the state is not saying no we didn't do any of that the state is saying this is what we have
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in our records this is what was reported To Us by the persons involved the authority figures involved and this is
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what we recognize as fact so of course once he confesses this will lead to the arrest of Chester
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weager now the part that's not so simple here is that he's also being threatened with
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being charged with other crimes that are not related to the Starved Rock murders
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at this time he is threatened to be charged with murder for the star of rock cases
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threatened to be charged with rape and several counts of assault and robbery and some of this is stemming from
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two situations that took place I believe it was not quite a year but took place in the year of
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1959 both of these incidents took place at another park nearby so this maasin park that is not terribly far just
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a so many miles from the Starved Rock State Park yeah and how this crime went down was an individual took a couple
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tied up the man tied up the woman they both believe once the man tied them up that he was just going to
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rob them and let him go or just or maybe just leave him there but he ends up raping the
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girl and she claims that he was basically playing with a boy bullet in his mouth the whole time was kind of
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like swishing the bullet around in his mouth so she felt like she could identify this person well when they went
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to Cops initially when they went to the law enforcement initially it's I don't think law
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enforcement beli their story now why would these two people make up this story doesn't make any sense what's what
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makes this of importance to the Starved Rock murders investigation is you have remember all reports are that
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they're looking for some sex maniac murderer this to me the the way that you describe those crimes and the way that
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they're described in several sources that we've found it almost sounds like something
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leading up to the events that took place at starv rock where you have this escalation
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right this this violent rapist who did not care that this woman this young woman I believe she was
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17 out walking with her boyfriend is not threatened by the fact that there's two
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persons there that goes up takes control of the situation they're very similar they're
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out for a walk in a park a nearby park to Starved Rock yeah ties and this is not terribly
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long for like I said it's 1959 I couldn't find the the month in my notes here but ties them up and it's the
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threat of murder obviously making the threat of murder to this girl who he's victimizing
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and then robs the the the boy who he had tied up stealing the wallet or at least
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cash from his pockets before fleeing the scene now this was a case that yes they were
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there was some investigation going on but they had really nobody to tie it to they had no good
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leads as far as I know in that case now once they hone in on Chester weager for the Starved Rock
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murders they go back to this guy and girl who were attacked in maason park and they say you you know do you
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think you could identify your attacker and the girl says yes I will never forget that man's face the Des the
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description that they offered both both the guy and the girl was not you couldn't eliminate
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Chester weager as being the as salent based off of that description I wouldn't say that it fit him to a tea but what I
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would say is it's similar similar age similar height similar weight and we know that weager lives in the
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area so yeah weager and we also know that he hunted so he would be out in Parks he'd be out
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in nature weager is subjected to a lineup bring everybody in have them stand next to each other and let's see
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if this guy and girl individually independent from one another can pick the same guy out of the lineup and pick
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Chester weager they both do now the problem with that lineup is if anybody seen the picture of this lineup of these
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Five Guys standing next to one another none of them look anything like the guy standing next to them it is
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laughable when you first hear that this rape victim this rape Survivor this and also her boyfriend which was there he
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was tied up when you find out that they both picked this individual out of a lineup
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you go got him yep and if you got and if you got him for this crime in a park and within the next year a a
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similar crime multiple victims escalation okay got him got him throw away the key and then you see the lineup
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and you go wait a second that they put one young guy in with a group of elderly men
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well if you know that the person that attacked you was a younger man now my only
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caveat to this whole lineup thing is yes was he the only young person but they they had an they had
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another option they ask you do you recognize the man that attacked you and they point out
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Chester they could have said no we don't see him at all exact you're exactly right and but but we should make sure
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that we underline the idea of oh you describe both of you described the as salent to
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me and as the investigator I'm now going whoa hang on a second I'm not telling this that this them this but oh got a
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guy that matches that description and he is now my main suspect and has been one
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of my main suspects in the star of rock murders case of course I'm going to do a
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lineup but then you have the investigators also their actions speak louder than words they have Chester weager stand
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next to four guys that don't look anything like him so if he resembles the description of the as salent then of
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course these other four guys that look nothing nothing like him are going to look nothing like the description of
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Thea of the asent right it's a very tricky sticky situation and when we come back from this beer break we will have
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Chester wier's [Music] confession [Music] welcome back to this complicated case this one will have your head
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spinning sometimes innocent guilty one killer two killers cheers to you all thanks for joining us here in the garage
00:30:47
cheers to you Colonel and cheers to you and I tell you what Captain as I sit here in the cold February of
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Ohio waiting for better and warmer weather we review a case like this and it makes me
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want to stay inside indoors forever not go to the park at all uh the the brutality of this case it's in the if in
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fact this was a complete random attack just it's a it's a terrifying thing to ponder as we promised we had have his
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statement now the confession we should point out here Captain is typed and then signed by Chester weager
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agreeing to th yes this is my statement so there's a court reporter that is there typing this at the time we have
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multiple people that are involved this is not just the investigators and that's going to be key here because later we're
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going to have Chester weager who's going to say I was abused by the detectives during this
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questioning we can't say with 100% certainty that he was or was not as we were not there we can only go off of the
00:32:09
statements or lack thereof of other persons who didn't have a dog in the fight so to speak that that are not say
00:32:18
that are saying no he wasn't he did not appear to be physically abused nor did I
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witness any abuse when he was in my presence or in the presence of the detectives this is from
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chicago.com and there's a lot of great source material out there about this case I want to point this one out and
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single this one out as I believe this is the best that there is the best reporting on this case and this comes
00:32:46
from a gentleman by the name of Jake maluli who published this in December of 2021 in an article titled unmaking a
00:32:57
murderer against Chicago mag.com now Chester weager confession is very detailed and it offers up possibly some
00:33:12
answers as to exactly what happened there that day let's take a deeper dive into this confession by Old Chester the
00:33:21
confession states that during Chester wier's afternoon break from work he was walking toward St Louis Canyon
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when he encountered the three victims now this we should note here Captain he has in previous interviews and
00:33:39
interrogations offered up an alibi for where he was at the time that it is believed that the women were attacked
00:33:48
and killed now remember he was working that day but his original statements to the police was yes I was working that
00:33:57
day and sometime between I believe he says 2:45 and 3 or a little after 300 p.m. on
00:34:05
that Monday March 14th he went on break from from his job and at that time he states that he went
00:34:14
down into the basement area of the lodge where he was writing a letter to a girl he also
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states that he did some other things like maybe grabbed something to eat or smoked a couple cigarettes or what have
00:34:28
you but that is sort of the centerpiece of his Alibi or what he claims to have been doing when it is believed that the
00:34:36
women were killed remember we know that they left the lodge shortly after lunchtime that day so the confession
00:34:46
says the complete opposite that he was walking in the woods during his break toward the canyon when he encountered
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the three victims he stayed states that he grabbed a strap that was around the shoulder on the shoulder of one of the
00:35:02
victims because he believed it was a purse that he wanted to snatch a purse and take off with it but it turned out
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that the strap was not to a purse that it was to some binoculars and that strap broke at that point he said that one of
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the women hit him with either the binoculars or a camera so we have the three women one of them's carrying
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binoculars one of them's carrying the camera he attempts to snatch and grab and flee unsuccessful one of them starts to
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hit him with something he describes as either binoculars or a camera then he says another one attacked them with
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something sharp perhaps a comb then somehow he was able to calm the women and persuade them to walk into the
00:35:52
canyon as he followed he told them that once they returned to the canyon he would let them go back in the canyon the
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women agreed to allow him to tie them up he used string from the kitchen that he had in
00:36:09
his pocket he stole nothing from the women and began to walk away that's when one of the women broke out of their
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binding and attacked him he picked up a tree branch knocked the woman unconscious and dragged her body into a
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cave fearing that he had killed her he then bludgeoned the other two to death to
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eliminate any Witnesses then the woman he first hit regained Consciousness and struck him
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with the binoculars he retaliated with the tree limb and the binoculars overhead he spotted a red and
00:36:47
white Piper Cub airplane and was worried that it was a police a state police airplane so fearing that he had been
00:36:55
seen or would be seen he dragged the bodies of the other two women up into the cave remember according to the
00:37:02
statement The Other Woman is already in the cave then I took this here lady's coat off if I'm not mistaken weijer said
00:37:12
and I put in front of this one here and just made it look like rape is all I can
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say end quote asked whether he removed one woman's pants and stuck them under her
00:37:25
undershirt as was the case at the crime scene he said quote I don't know he checked their pockets for money finding
00:37:33
none he left the scene he washed the blood off his hands in a creek or in the snow then returned to the lodge to work
00:37:43
his evening shift that's his confession to the police of how the women were murdered he
00:37:51
didn't intend to kill anybody he went there and having seen them thought he would snatch the purse and run off and
00:38:00
when that didn't go as planned and they attacked him he fought back and it got out of hand he killed one and then had
00:38:08
to kill the others and then staged the scene according to his statement which again this becomes confusing I think for
00:38:15
the public because law enforcement media everybody's saying initially we're looking for a sex craze Maniac we're
00:38:23
looking for possibly two killers now we got this guy confessing one killer not two killers did this all on his own and
00:38:31
guess what wasn't sexually motivated everybody else is saying it is sexually motivated but now we're saying nope and
00:38:40
and I think it goes back to what we talked about like good cop bad cop was there a guy in the room
00:38:46
going well we know you didn't mean to hurt them we we know that this wasn't sexually motivated we know you were just
00:38:54
trying to rob them and then it got out of hand oh and and maybe they attacked you first I think that's where we get
00:39:02
this story if you believe he's guilty then you can simply say well he's just not telling you the full truth if
00:39:12
you believe he's innocent then you believe that this is all fabricated it's very difficult because this confession
00:39:19
he would later recant and say that no that that's not factual I gave this confession under s
00:39:27
which yes well he kind of recants because we got to do a couple steps here the other thing that is very odd in this
00:39:37
case is that after he confesses law enforcement takes him down to the scene has the media come
00:39:46
out and has him basically step by step go through this reenactment almost tell us what happened
00:39:57
position the bodies here then what did you do to me that's very strange because one how is he how is he going to
00:40:06
remember all that I'd like to actually see the footage of of that scenario because I'd
00:40:15
like to see is he stumbling over his words is his confession similar to the one that he gave it's a lengthy
00:40:21
confession he signed his name to all of them there was no evidence that he was beat or that he
00:40:28
was you know physically abused to get this this confession out of him but you know there obviously there was an
00:40:40
interrogation of some kind lengthy one but you don't I mean when have we ever seen that in a a case where they take
00:40:49
the suspect that just confessed down to the crime scene and have the media there
00:40:55
to get all the information I mean just seems ridiculous it it is ridiculous but again it's the 1960s and that's kind of
00:41:04
how they did things back then it's wouldn't be uncommon to take the offender to the scene today or even in
00:41:11
the 70s 80s 90s what have you but you're right you wouldn't bring the media along
00:41:16
with you you would you would you would film that photograph and record that session yourself in house the police
00:41:26
would here what I wish that I could do is go back and unsee you know you said you wish you
00:41:33
could see review all of that footage I've not been able to review all of it but seen portions of it and I know
00:41:39
you've seen portions of it I wish that I could go back and unsee the portions that I did see
00:41:46
because it's got very difficult for me to look at this unbiased after having seen that because
00:41:55
it was I thought it was very convincing and not only just convincing it at Parts looked to me like he enjoyed
00:42:04
the attention yeah of you know he's he's reenacting this crime best he can whether he's making it up as he goes or
00:42:15
whether he's acting out a script that's been laid out for him by law enforcement
00:42:19
I can't say but what I can say is what my eyeballs tell me the old eyeballs tell me this guy looks like he's acting
00:42:27
in a in a part like uh but but enjoying it you know he's smoking cigarettes he's
00:42:32
got his hair all done and he is going through the motions one by one of this is what happened when and how it all
00:42:40
went down now there's there's a lot of questionable things in his statement I don't deny that one bit and there are
00:42:48
people very smart people much smarter than I that have said no this crime could not have gone down the way that it
00:42:57
did in fact what was so interesting about watching the documentary on Max The Murders At starve
00:43:03
Rock was one of the prosecuting attorneys Anthony ruglia who I believe to be a very smart
00:43:14
intelligent a very good prosecutor he even says in the documentary look are there parts of this confession
00:43:23
that are wrong he goes do I believe the confession 100% no he said but it's not my job to
00:43:30
believe the confession he said the only part that mattered to me is at the end when he's of the confession when he says
00:43:35
he killed the three women that's what I was there to prosecute so even a smart man who has more insight into this case
00:43:44
and and a wealth of knowledge and information that we've not been privy to says the confessions probably wrong I
00:43:52
have to believe it but a couple things let's point out a couple things that are wrong couple things things that seem to
00:43:57
be right with the confession because that's the other problem right Captain it would seem at least on the face of it
00:44:05
that some of these things he did get right there's going to be some details that you would think that the
00:44:13
only only the killer would have known so police were able to confirm and this was
00:44:19
presented to the jury I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here but in 1961 this will go to trial and as
00:44:26
we already covered it's near the end of 1960 that they get their confession from
00:44:32
Chester weager when it's when this thing goes to trial it is presented to the jury that this whole idea that he during
00:44:42
the process of killing them or after having killed the women the the red and white airplane flew over and he believed
00:44:51
that oh he could be spotted or they would see the victims on the ground for from the airplane I must conceal the
00:44:58
bodies and this is when he drugged them into that shallow cave well it's presented at
00:45:03
court that there was a small red and white plane flying in the area that day that afternoon they had the flight logs
00:45:13
they had the uh the the the pilot and the the the owner of I believe it was a flight club or a pilot club that was
00:45:24
nearby where the plane was housed so they had testimony backing up that incredible detail within his confession
00:45:36
so that stands to to me as something that probably is ringing true the problem though is some of the
00:45:45
physical aspects of the confession and the crime scene itself right many people have pointed out time and time again
00:45:53
Chester weager he's smaller in stature there's no way that he would have had the ability to physically pull these
00:46:01
women up into that cave after having killed them now I'm going to dispute that a little bit I I
00:46:09
would like to push back a little bit yes he's a he's a smaller guy right he's 21
00:46:16
years old man remember the strength we had at 21 uh God I want to get that back but
00:46:22
uh now I I'm a much larger individ ual than Chester weager but I don't believe I would have
00:46:31
had any trouble pulling them up one at a time into it's five feet okay and well you also have a you have an adrenaline
00:46:39
rush and if you watch portions of that reenactment when he's there with law enforcement with the media filming
00:46:46
everything he is pulling up A grown male who is playing the part of one of the victims now I don't know that he's
00:46:54
physically pulling the man up but it's you know the the way that it's reenacted he is certainly using some
00:47:02
Force to guide the man up into that cave but Chester weager he served in the Marines for two years so I'm not going
00:47:11
to believe that he's a weak individual but here's here's the thing though Captain let's say that he could
00:47:19
pull him up on his own let's say that he couldn't there's a couple of things that
00:47:24
are physically incorrect with the science of the murder scene there's two different kinds of
00:47:31
hair found in the victim's hands we already covered that so what I'm getting at here is if
00:47:41
Chester weager killed or witnessed or was involved in the murder of these three women I think that there is a
00:47:48
world that exist that his confession is wrong and he still was either there involved or responsible for killing
00:47:59
these women and that somebody else might have been there with him and if that's the
00:48:05
case he did not have to pull those women up into that cave by himself right the other thing is I don't think anybody
00:48:13
pulled them women up into the cave because I don't think that they were alive I think they were killed in the
00:48:21
cave I think the blood evidence suggests that the other thing that's interesting
00:48:26
too is and this comes from the notes of the investigators from 1960 the notes from the investigators
00:48:35
1960 days after the murders they're talking about the twine that was used to tie the women up and in those notes it
00:48:44
says there's no bruising found around the wrist of the victims and there was there was no tension I believe is the
00:48:53
the note that is made right so if I'm picking up what you're putting down they were bound after their murder
00:49:03
I would expect yes if they were if they were tied up and then killed I believe you would find bruising around the wrist
00:49:11
and if his confession is correct you would definitely find bruising around the wrist because he states that one of
00:49:17
the women Broke Free well you're not just going to wish it away right you're going to have to you're going to have to
00:49:22
force your way out of that and that's going to create some bruising all the blood the majority of the blood is found
00:49:29
in that cave there's no bruising on the wrist I think that what happened is just
00:49:34
like the skirts being pulled up after they were killed probably there's a chance that this
00:49:41
twine was applied after they were killed and what that would mean is that somebody forced them alive up into that
00:49:49
cave or convince them to get up into that cave and you know what zodiac killer BTK we've seen it a 100 times
00:49:59
before look I'm ladies I'm just here to rob you look I'm I'm an escape convict on the run from the police I'm just here
00:50:08
to take your valuables all I need you to do is get up in that cave for me yeah and I I'm just going to take what I need
00:50:15
from you and everything's going to be okay I'll leave if you do as I say nobody's going to get hurt and guess
00:50:21
what half the time when some bad guy tells good people that half the time they do what that guy says and sometimes
00:50:28
that guy is not telling you the truth and he intends to harm you or kill you for what reason we don't know yeah never
00:50:35
get in the van that's right never let somebody tie you up and what's weird too Captain is that now this goes along with
00:50:43
this whole robbery motive remember police were searching for a motive and and who wouldn't it's human nature even
00:50:50
if you're not involved in investigation it's human nature to want to know why something this horrible would happen to
00:50:56
anybody ever right what kind of monster could do this and why would this monster
00:51:00
do this well originally it was thought that it was going to be some kind of sex maniac well the problem with that became
00:51:07
yeah they were displayed in such a manner it would appear there were several indicators at the crime scene
00:51:13
that yes this was sexually motivated murders but then the science comes back and says we didn't find any evidence of
00:51:20
sperm with any of our victims I want to be clear here when they come out with that information they say so the victims
00:51:28
weren't raped but then there's a whole other school of thought that yes that there was still a sexual assault even
00:51:35
though that type of evidence was not found I think the sexual assault could be debated that we may never
00:51:41
know if that was a motivating factor if it was something that that took place or
00:51:46
something that didn't take place but that was an indicator to the investigators at the time that that
00:51:52
wasn't the motive and so then they they didn't manufacture this idea that there was a robbery no that idea was presented
00:52:01
to them remember the family members contact the police and they say hey our mom's jewelry is missing the rings that
00:52:07
she had the very expensive rings that she had on her finger we can't find them you know they're unfortunately they're
00:52:13
preparing the woman for burial and they don't have her rings well when the investigators go sorting through all the
00:52:19
evidence and clothing and items that they've collected they find it amongst the clothing and in some of the gloves
00:52:24
stuffed inside the glov that doesn't mean that it happened at the murder scene the women were
00:52:30
processed the victims were processed it probably happened then it was probably just an error a very innocent error but
00:52:38
see now they the idea of robbery was presented to them oh no sperm couldn't have been sexually motivated well what's
00:52:47
the motivation missing jewelry missing expensive Rings robbery that's our motive well then you find the Rings the
00:52:54
problem is the investigators never took that off the table even though it's believed that nothing was taken from
00:53:02
these three women and according to Chester's confession nothing was taken from these women that robbery was still
00:53:09
the motive that this is what started this whole thing and it no pun intended snowballed out of
00:53:16
control you had a violent individual Chester weager who had committed previous crimes according to the police
00:53:25
according to that lineup that terrible lineup that we discussed which is so weird too right like because that's that
00:53:32
is one 100% a sexually motivated crime so you have elements of that here too I believe I there is the sexual nature of
00:53:42
this crime it look were they staged probably the the legat would indicate that but the robbery part I what I what
00:53:51
I do not like is when people review this confession and they go well well they weren't robbed because nothing was taken
00:53:57
from them the the binoculars were found the camera was found the jewelry was found can anybody sit here and say with
00:54:03
100% confidence that no cash money was stolen from these women no I've not heard anybody or read any statement of
00:54:12
of the like right so that still stands an opportunity there now if we can which I
00:54:19
don't think we can if one were able to successfully eliminate both of those as possibilities for motive based off of
00:54:28
the crime scene and the evidence well then you have a whole different mystery here on your hands this means that
00:54:35
either just some complete crazed lunatic killer went total skitso and just attacked and killed these women which I
00:54:44
don't believe there's there's things that suggest this the destroying of the face we've talked about this before and
00:54:51
longtime listeners will remember if you're new to the show you've not heard this before but maybe you've heard it
00:54:55
elsewhere or read this elsewhere psychologists will tell you that the destroying of the face and the head of a
00:55:02
person is suggestive of severe mental health issues could be schizophrenic and so on and so and and a
00:55:15
violent schizophrenic person not all schizophrenic people are violent in fact most of them are not at all right but
00:55:21
it's it's the destruction it's not just the killing of the person it's the to destroy them to deface
00:55:30
them the other thing that is left out of some of the reporting which is very strange I know this one thing made the
00:55:37
documentary but it's not in all the reporting but the I believe it's the left indexed finger the tip of the
00:55:45
finger was missing from one of our victims and I believe it was from Mrs Murphy so the tip of her glove and the
00:55:53
tip of her finger are missing I would like to know more information on that is this is there any chance was it was this
00:56:04
the tip of the finger was it broken and torn or was it cut because we don't have any other
00:56:12
indicators of a Sharp object being used on our victims if it because it makes you wonder if it was it postmortem was
00:56:21
it possibly you know I'm going to take this and a souvenir from the killer or is it just simply a defensive wound
00:56:30
exactly exactly Captain that's what I'm wonder I want a better description because the way that the the way that
00:56:36
it's reported is that it was removed postmortem but the word removed is weird right again I want to know was it broken
00:56:45
and torn off as a defensive you know was it just happen stance because I'm sorry to
00:56:53
be to be this gruesome and disgusting here but when you strike a person 100 times in the head and face there's a
00:57:01
good chance that you're probably striking them a number of times after they've already expired and it also
00:57:06
makes me wonder again not to be gross if you're eating a sandwich please put it down but is there a possibility that
00:57:16
because again we don't know exactly how long they were out there is it possible that an animal got to them and and made
00:57:25
any injuries postmortem very likely again we need more of a description on how they believe that this tip is
00:57:33
removed and lost because you're right it to me it could also suggest like you said maybe
00:57:40
some type of hit you know we've all seen the movies hey they they clip off a finger and take it back to the person
00:57:47
that hired them so what is your motive if you are able to successfully eliminate a SE sexual motive or robbery
00:57:56
or both which I don't think given the circumstances or the evidence or information that we have that we can say
00:58:03
100% that we can rule those out what I do believe though is the coring of the women because again I don't think they
00:58:12
were just chilling in the cave when the killer happened upon them I think the coring of the women along with the
00:58:22
staging and the physical evidence of finding two sets of hairs each independently being found in the hands
00:58:33
of different victims and after analysis appear to be different from one another I think
00:58:40
that's incredibly suggestive I'm looking for two people minimum in this case now was Chester
00:58:48
weager one of them hard to say his confession again could be wrong not 100% factual yet he could still have been
00:58:58
involved I have a hard time believing that anybody responsible for killing three people
00:59:04
being involved in killing three people in the way that these three were killed is a person that's just telling the
00:59:11
truth every day of their life and we know even if the conf E even with the confession we know he told different a
00:59:19
different story before we also know that criminals is human behavior it's it's natural
00:59:29
for for persons no matter how terrible they are to minimize their guilt she attacked me I just I was just trying to
00:59:40
score a few bucks by snatching a purse she attacked me and then I had I was forced to fight back I was forced to
00:59:50
confront the women and I I in a fit of rage or in an attempt to fight her off I picked up a a a log and
01:00:01
struck her over the head and bludging her to death and then I was forced to kill the other two and conceal the
01:00:07
bodies because I couldn't leave any Witnesses I didn't intend to kill anybody minimize
01:00:12
[Music] [Music] guilt is Chester innocent is he guilty wow your guess is as good as mine
01:00:32
if you have thoughts check out our blog at true Crim garage.com and stick around
01:00:38
for part three same bat Time same back Channel be good be kind and don't [Music]
01:00:53
lose [Music]