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[Music] [Music] thank you [Music] blood evidence found in the apartment the apartment where a missing 12 year
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old Heather colorne police are on the scene very early July 15 1999 trying to figure out what happened and where is
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this little girl we talked about yesterday Captain how the blood that was found on the ground near this apartment
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was quickly determined to belong to a neighbor there was a man out and he was bitten by a dog bled that's the blood
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that they find outside of the apartment they found blood inside the apartment in
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question but they were going to send it off to be tested to confirm if in fact it was Heather's blood we can skip ahead
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these tests take a little bit of time but just a clue everybody in they do determine yes in fact this was Heather's
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blood now what we don't have is a situation where Dana or Christopher are trying to
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explain away that blood why would we find Heather's blood in your apartment of course she had been staying there for
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a handful of days before she went missing but we don't have anybody saying she cut her thumb or there was an
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accident and she bled at some point at some place in the apartment and I say someplace because the reports
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about where the blood was found and how much blood was found it's a little all over the shop there
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Captain right there's one report that states that there was a small amount of blood that was found on the couch
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there's another report that states that blood was found on the couch on a floor a portion of the floor Carpeting and a
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portion uh some blood was found on one of the walls now I don't want to jump here and make the leap
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assuming that that means that a lot of blood was found in the apartment but it is interesting that this other report
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states that blood was found in more than one location this is information that the police are clearly going to want to
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keep to themselves and for for the reason being that they have multiple suspects you said it yesterday
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Christopher Herbert the man who lives at the apartment had been there for about a
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year says he left at 10 30 that night yeah gets back at four but he changes his story multiple times like a real piece
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of [ __ ] they're not calling him a suspect and I don't fault police for that and I and here's why I do what
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you're getting is you're getting the reporters asking you questions yes you want some information to go out to the
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public because and until you have evidence that leads you to believe that your missing person is dead or has been
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killed you have to work your investigation under the assumption that she is still
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alive now in this case you are hoping to not single out a suspect because you do not want to limit
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the public you don't want to put blinders on the public and they go well they got a suspect he must have done
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something with that girl he he must have put her somewhere he must have hid the body somewhere and and it's only a
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matter of time until they find the body and then boom cuffs go on Christopher Herbert
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you don't want to lock yourself into that now what you are getting is those reporters saying
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uh what did the people that live at the apartment tell you oh well Christopher Herbert he's got uh conflicting stories
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right is he a suspect no he's not a suspect at this time yeah but this is this is why I
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have a problem because you can make the statement that everyone is a suspect at this time so you're not singling him out
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you're not but you're not eliminating him and I think just like you said well you don't if you single him out then
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maybe you don't get as much cooperation but I think once you state well at this time he's not a suspect well what if
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there's pieces of evidence uh people saw something in the apartment and they're like well he's not a suspect so even
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though I saw this thing or even though I know this information about Christopher
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I'm not going to come forward so I do think it has the reverse effect as well I think you're right and I again
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though I think it goes back to the idea that if she were to be being held by somebody else or somebody else is
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responsible you need that information too from the public you don't want to put blinders on
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on the public and if you're unfortunately if you're law enforcement you can't control what the reporter puts
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in their article you can you can answer their questions to the best of your ability right and they write the article
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um so I just want to remind everybody too we don't just have a missing girl but we do have a missing item that that
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comforter missing I do think it's very important well and not just missing item here's what's weird too remember we
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talked about Mike Mason so what has been determined is that both Christopher Herbert and Mike Mason had drug a drug
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habit a bad a pretty bad drug habit not only that they're manufacturing methamphetamine so we know this from
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Christopher Herbert's statements to police we know this from frankly their their police record both of these guys
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that had run-ins with the law prior both have had run-ins with the law after the
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fact after Heather went missing and we know that they both had access to that garage it's been even reported that it's
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a garage that they shared In fairness to these two we should be clear that there
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could be other people that shared that garage with the with Mason and Herbert you never trust anybody that shares a
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garage trust no that's right the thing here is we know that they found proof that
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methamphetamine was being manufactured in that garage that these two shared so very quickly the concern and the belief
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of police is a couple things they State and and you will like this Captain they won't name anybody but after a few weeks
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goes by they do say hey we got we got some Suspects we they they don't give an exact number
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they say we've got several suspects but they are clear that we have basically a handful of people that we
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are looking at in this situation and we feel very strongly that the person or person's responsible is in
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this group in this circle of people that we are are considering that we are monitoring they even say that they are
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monitoring a few of their suspects we know that police were concerned about a couple things so there could be any
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number of reasons why Heather was taken and they are stating very quickly in this investigation Foul Play
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We have evidence to believe that there's Foul Play what is our evidence the blood
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the blood comes back and yes it does belong to Heather it's not explained away when did that blood make it onto
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the carpet the couch or the wall we don't know but as far as Herbert in Madden the two that occupy the apartment
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are concerned it wasn't there when they left Madden at 10 at 10 pm and then Christopher at 10 30 p.m yeah my issue
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with the mom having a relationship with Christopher and you said well this is not just a a male that uh unknown male
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to the 12 year old but you're more likely a 12 year old girl is more likely to be sexually assaulted or
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sexually abused by a a male that she knows and I just feel like it's not I wouldn't feel comfortable with my 12
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year old daughter being alone in an apartment at night with this man that again is a known drug
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user known drug seller known drug maker right but you're making the assumption that she knew about the drug use we
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can't say that for certain what I can say 100 is in agreeance with you is I don't feel comfortable about any of this
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situation minus the drugs as a parent the the drugs is just the icing on the cake of no you're not staying over there
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sorry I'm not but I don't want to spend the remainder of the episode blaming the
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mother because she made she made a bad decision in my mind she made a bad poor choice
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and there's no there's never ever been anybody in law enforcement to even suggest or hint that Christine the
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mother is a person of interest in The Disappearance of her daughter right so whatever happened according to
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law enforcement whatever happened to Heather killorn happened between 10 p.m and 4 a.m that night and it took took
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place whatever led to her disappearance took place it started in the apartment and we they're saying that because of
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the blood that they found now remember they knocked on Mike Mason's door that that morning old Mike Mason they talked
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to him they questioned him briefly and then they send him to go pick up Dana Mann from work now he tells police at
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some point I actually believed that it was that morning there he goes out and starts
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searching with Christopher Herbert and as the other officers are arriving so now you have
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Herbert neighbors and police all actively searching together this small apartment complex this is when they
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discover the paraphernalia in the garage but on this same morning we have a weird
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statement by Mike Mason who says yes I've been in the apartment many times I've I know Heather
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hung out with Heather uh you know hung out with the couple when they're in the presence of Heather
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and he says oh by the way the toe chains to my vehicle they're missing and I'm going to assume
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that the he he's stating this while they're searching the garage he does say though that you know maybe
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somebody stole them and used them to dispose of the girl in the river he says that's his concern well so now we have a
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missing 12 year old we have a missing comforter and now this neighbor that is sharing this garage is saying that his
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toe chains for his vehicle are missing and then this is not a good sign no and and what's weird though too is we have
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uh you're right they they have not in everyone's a suspect situation but they have a handful of suspects
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and the problem is we end up with a list of named suspects and unnamed suspects so I had mentioned yesterday that there
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was a fourth story right a fourth Christopher Herbert story this one too involves
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some of the details that he gave and some of the other stories so in this story he says that he left
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the apartment at 10 30 but this was to go to the garage the garage that he shared with Mike Mason he says that
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there in the garage he and an unnamed individual were cooking up meth now for reasons it will get into it
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sounds like this unnamed individual is not Mike Mason so he says that me and this
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unnamed individual we were cooking up meth and at some point I left the garage took my vehicle and I had to go get more
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supplies when I got these supplies I came back to the garage the guy was gone garage sealed up that's when I went to
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the apartment heard my baby crying I go inside and Heather's gone right he tells
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police that this man is dating a woman who owns a red BMW now why is that important he tells police that on at
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least one occasion and it sounded to me like this may have happened more than one time that he had stole items from
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that BMW that belonged to this man's girlfriend and he floated out the idea maybe in some kind of retaliation like
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me and this guy and his girlfriend we don't have the best of relationships we're known drug users and Drug makers
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and that he had stole cash and other items from them that maybe in some kind of retaliation
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when he went off to go look for items to make more meth that they took Heather so the weird part here Captain is even
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though this man is unnamed to the public police know who this guy is right police
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interviewed him police interviewed his girlfriend police searched their property and the BMW yeah the vehicle
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and police said we found no evidence that Heather was ever in their possession the apartment complex is
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small but a red BMW especially in this area would be something that you'd think would
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stick out like a sore thumb a big giant sore thumb but a three foot tall red sore thumb swollen it was swollen
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but we don't have other eyewitnesses of this vehicle and here's the other problem
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police say remember one of other one of Christopher's other stories is that he was at the park near the river I was in
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a van down by the river partying with a friend and then later that morphs into well we might have been making meth
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there too probably doing both they're probably partying and you know we're just having
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a good old time cooking up meth and hanging out and shooting the [ __ ] they speak with that man what it's hard
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for us to sort out is Christopher Herbert's does he have an alibi I get it that he's told multiple stories
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to police but if one of those stories is hey I was cooking up meth with this guy who his
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girlfriend owns a BMW we're we're out in the garage and then I left to go get supplies and look
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it's difficult to believe that he would be gone for an extended period of time to get supplies but who who knows what
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that entails well I've seen Breaking Bad okay so they we know according to police statements
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they spoke to that man the man that supposedly Chris was in the garage cooking up meth with and then it is his
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other story he's out partying at the park near the river with a guy an unnamed guy
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they speak to this guy so what I'm getting at here Captain is even though he supplied different
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stories to police look if he's cooking up meth or if he's doing drugs at night it does make sense that the first story
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he's going to give is oh I left to drive somebody home when I came back hours later she was gone
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right it's not uncommon at all that a person who is perfectly innocent of the crime that you're investigating is
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covering up some other lesser crime in his whereabouts or what he was doing that night yeah but the problem is at
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some point you have to go okay okay okay okay let me tell you the truth you know
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right and smoking some crack over here and uh giving hand jobs out well and I don't know what order these stories came
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out to police but he gave conflicting reports what I'm getting at here Captain is like how you say that I don't know uh
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what order these four stories came out yeah I mean I don't but what what I'm saying here is does he have an alibi
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because in every one of his stories he is attempting to provide an alibi attempting to provide reasons why he is
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not there and three of the stories he gives you another person who he was with for a large portion of that time
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and you have spoke to police have said that they even though they've not named these individuals that they spoke to
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both of these individuals what I'm getting at does that mean he has an alibi because you know who doesn't have
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an alibi is Mike Mason I think it ought to then becomes determined on how much as law enforcement do you believe these
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other individuals and I think just in this situation if I'm investigating a disappearance of
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a 12 year old girl and look she needs to be tested she needs to take insulin daily by the second or third day
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I I hate to say this but you're going to start assuming the worse she's an endangered missing but when you're
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talking to all these individuals they all become suspects and because of their drug use I just
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don't know how much I can believe them at all right I'm going to need some more concrete evidence
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so if you tell me you went to go get supplies I need a receipt oh I can't find one
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you know if you say you're with this individual I need more than his word no I get that but what I what I'm also
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trying to to focus in on here is I mean law enforcement could have that other piece of evidence
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well exactly yeah but but that's what I'm saying it's hard for us to sort out what's going on because we don't know if
00:21:05
Herbert has an alibi if Herbert has an alibi so so the way that the case stands today is this police say they they
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basically believe that they know who did it that they once had several suspects now they have a prime suspect an unnamed
00:21:21
Prime Suspect unnamed to the public right and their Prime Suspect is an individual that they have some evidence
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against that they gave a polygraph test to and this individual failed the polygraph test that's as much
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information as they've given about their Prime Suspect what I'm trying to point out here though is yes I get that
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they're drug users yes I get that they're drug makers and likely drug Sellers as well what I'm saying though
00:21:50
is if you if you receive two different stories from one individual that oh I was in the garage hanging out with this
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one dude and then the the other version of that same story I'm in the park hanging out with this other dude and you
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identify those people and you spoke to both of them what happened did both of them tell you that he was hanging out
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with them because that couldn't have happened what would be both happening at the same
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time or did one say I don't know why yes I know Christopher Herbert yes we're friends we hang out uh he maybe he asked
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me to cover for him but no I didn't see him that night I'm trying to sort out here if he has an alibi the reason being
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because well I don't know I'm not we don't enforcement we don't need well law enforcement doesn't know either they
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would have if they knew who killed Heather killorn would be having a whole different story here today well again we
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know in a lot of cases the law enforcement knows they just can't can't prove it and I and could you imagine not
00:22:51
not you know this is where I feel bad horrible I feel awful for the mother because as she's learning this
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information again we we don't know how much I look I would I would assume that if they're so deep into drugs that
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they're making meth but this could be a new revelation in his life oh I just had
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a child I need to make more money this is my dumbass plan hmm is to cook up some meth
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so that could be a new revelation in in her friend's life but your law enforcement
00:23:31
you're looking for this 12 year old girl you show up to the scene now everybody you're talking to has conflicting
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stories and they're all involved in drugs on some level you can't be feeling good about the
00:23:46
outcome of this situation no no and police have been clear very early on they've stated a few things so one they
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say foul play was certainly involved in the Abduction of this girl she didn't walk off on her own two this is we're
00:24:02
treating this as a homicide even though we don't have a body and three We Believe whoever is
00:24:10
responsible knew Heather Heather knew them or the person has a direct tie to that apartment to where Heather was that
00:24:19
night the the reason why I'm trying to sort out this Christopher Herbert Alibi portion is because it doesn't have to be
00:24:27
a single individual that's responsible for what happened to Heather or where she may be found because the problem is
00:24:36
you have Mike Mason who could be perfectly Innocent but he does not have an alibi Christopher Herbert provides
00:24:43
several different stories but Mike Mason if he's innocent he doesn't need it it doesn't matter if
00:24:48
he's home alone by himself from 10 P.M to 4 a.m it doesn't look so good but the the issue I have with some of the
00:24:59
stories is this Herbert obviously has access to that apartment Mike Mason has been in that
00:25:06
apartment and knows Heather so he fits into the mold of what they are stating is the person they are looking for is
00:25:13
the suspect does he have access to get into that apartment without Christopher Herbert being there right because he has
00:25:21
access to the garage when Heather yeah would Heather let him in does he have a key to the apartment there was no forced
00:25:28
entry no signs of forced entry into the apartment that night right we know that police vetted the BMW people
00:25:37
and they don't seem to be so interested in them so where I think the case sits is one of
00:25:46
two things either Mike Mason or Christopher Herbert or the two of them together right you you grab the girl and
00:25:53
I'll be in the car and because it's a little weird that two of the four stories that Christopher
00:25:59
Herbert gives says that he's at a park that is near the river and then the flip of that is you talk to
00:26:07
Mike Mason and he says oh my my toe chains are missing uh I'm worried that somebody might have
00:26:14
used them to to dispose of of the girl in the river okay so we got two people both
00:26:21
referencing the river I'm gonna say something and maybe you will pick up what I'm putting down
00:26:31
I almost lean towards an outside individual and and here's why we have a comforter missing
00:26:41
if if it was Christopher killing his wife and he put her body in the comforter he
00:26:48
doesn't have to explain the missing comforter away to anybody law enforcement shows up they don't know the
00:26:54
comforters missing but this 12 year old girl something happens he wraps her up in the comforter
00:27:00
now he's gonna have to explain this away to his wife but if it's an outside source
00:27:08
then they just oh they just use whatever you just would kind of use whatever is just around and you wanna you wanna give
00:27:17
a [ __ ] if that makes any sense right you would just grab what's there to wrap up
00:27:21
the the package to remove it from the apartment yeah I'm just saying if it was your apartment and you know your wife is
00:27:28
coming home you might take a second to think a little bit more about how you're going to dispose of this body
00:27:35
yeah I I see what you're saying I do pick up what you're putting down but I don't know that that points to to
00:27:41
innocence for Christmas or I I think the way that this probably goes down Captain
00:27:46
is that they they're canvassing the area this neighbor tells the story of hey I witnessed this
00:27:53
this is what I saw and then now police are going okay it wasn't obvious that anything was missing from the apartment
00:27:59
other than Heather but we have this statement from the neighbors and now you have potentially have Dana and
00:28:06
Christopher going oh yeah we are missing a blanket or we are missing a comforter
00:28:10
uh now now that you you asked that question there was a similar blanket or comforter that was found in a
00:28:20
park I had a hard time tracking down when it was discovered right it sounds like it was fairly close to the time
00:28:29
that Heather went missing that the thing though is police were never able to 100
00:28:34
percent determine if that comforter came from the apartment so uh they they recover this comforter
00:28:44
or blanket it's often described as a blanket and what was missing from the apartment is often described as a
00:28:50
comforter but from my understanding they showed this to Dana Madden and she was unable to identify it 100 as
00:29:01
being the the missing item from their apartment so that seemed that's a little inconclusive but it's hard to believe
00:29:07
her too because she would have an agenda on why she wouldn't want to cooperate with law enforcement you're exactly
00:29:14
right but what we do have at one of our crime scenes is Heather's blood and you would think that if she was immediately
00:29:21
bloodied dead or a sleeping unconscious whatever I don't believe she'd be sleeping unconscious would be a better
00:29:29
term and then removed in a in a comforter used to remove her from the apartment as
00:29:34
we said with the potential eyewitness right I would think that police might not need
00:29:40
to ask Dana if this is your comforter blanket if they found blood or Heather's blood on that so it sounds like no blood
00:29:48
on the on this item and that's why we need the owner one of the owners to potentially identify it
00:29:57
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off your first month that's betterhelp h-e-l-p Dot com slash garage [Music] all right we are back back to our story
00:33:37
of a missing 12 year old with a bunch of suspects that are piles of [ __ ] well and you know what and
00:33:43
I'm not going to put anything on the St Louis Missouri police we'd be remiss if we didn't point out
00:33:53
that almost a thousand homicide and missing persons cases have gone unsolved in St Louis since 1980. this is
00:34:01
according to their own statistics that's too many um almost 30 cold cases from the 80s and
00:34:07
the 90s have been solved by the department this in 2021 thanks to the application
00:34:14
of modern forensic Tech techniques and evidence now we say that and that was my concern at first with
00:34:23
this case because you can see why this is a complicated case you have people telling different stories you have two
00:34:29
individuals that it looks like on the surface have no alibi I think they have a better understanding of Christopher
00:34:37
Herbert and where he was and what he was up to that night than we do 100 I believe that right this case man they've
00:34:44
worked this case really good they put a lot of effort into this case some things
00:34:48
that they did really smart uh they did bring in other agencies to assist what I find you know through looking into these
00:34:57
cases every every week is that if you have a criminal with a level of sophistication
00:35:04
makes the crime a lot harder to solve right for law enforcement but also seems like if
00:35:12
the suspects are such dumb asses that that makes the the case even more complex does that make any sense it's
00:35:22
interesting you say that because more than one occasion I've heard a detective say well not the same detective but
00:35:29
different detectives in different situations say he's too dumb to lie he's too dumb to
00:35:36
not tell us the truth right and that comes with experience I can't explain that statement but I can I could tell by
00:35:42
the the individual telling me that by the sound of their voice by the look on their face they believed it let's fast
00:35:49
forward about two and a half years after Heather goes missing so there were remains found in a creek near St Louis
00:35:57
in March of 2002 police were hopeful that these might be the remains of Heather killorn it sounds like they very
00:36:05
quickly within a day or two were able to determine that no that was not the remains of Heather then
00:36:13
the following month in April of 2002 police went on record stating this was the first time that I
00:36:20
saw this this is the first time they come out and say you know what we're pretty certain we know who did this we
00:36:27
just need some evidence we we need a little more evidence and here's the problem when you talk about a homicide
00:36:33
investigation even in 2023 uh so even more importantly in 99 2000 2001 and 2002 you don't have a body it
00:36:43
gets very difficult to bring forth charges now we talked about the blood in that apartment we have seen and we have
00:36:51
covered cases right Captain where you do not have the actual remains right but you have enough blood at your crime
00:36:59
scene where a medical expert can come in and say this amount of lost blood this person was killed here
00:37:07
you mean it belongs to this person this person was killed you're looking for a body you can't find it but I can
00:37:15
scientifically prove that this person is no longer with us and therefore you can
00:37:20
bring up murder charges so when we question the amount of blood one thing we do know is it was not enough
00:37:26
that was found in the apartment for someone to come forward a medical expert to tell us that Heather was killed in
00:37:32
that apartment yeah so in simple terms you don't have the evidence of the victim's body but you have evidence that
00:37:39
there was a murder they have evidence of Foul Play and then they this is what's interesting I think they were really
00:37:47
hoping then somebody would crack right maybe not the Killer maybe not the person 100
00:37:54
responsible somebody on crack might crack but somebody that knows the true story maybe they were told this
00:38:02
by the perpetrator maybe they witnessed something maybe they participated in something
00:38:09
but they wanted to keep the heat the heat was hot they wanted to keep it turned up let's Crank It Up to 11. yeah
00:38:15
and so they announced this to the public right you can see the efforts that in this
00:38:23
this as George W bush would say the strategory involved March of 20 02 body found
00:38:35
that was if it would have been Heather that would have advanced their case turns out not to be Heather
00:38:41
here's our opportunity right here's if there's some if the Killer is out there and is paying attention to this case
00:38:49
or his friends or anybody that may have helped him or paying attention to this case well they're all going to get a
00:38:56
little nervous because now the body's been found after a couple days it's determined it's not Heather so what do
00:39:01
we do use that strategory and come out within 30 days and tell the newspapers yeah
00:39:11
we know who did this we just need a little more evidence keep the heat cranked up to 11. you sit
00:39:19
back and you wait to see if somebody comes out to tell you a story tell you something you didn't know or present
00:39:24
some evidence to you it'd be a great time to bring people back in for even this simple questioning I'm sure that
00:39:31
they did that because here's what happened next whatever they were looking for whatever
00:39:36
they were hoping to get led to Heather's body or told the story of where she was
00:39:40
disposed of that likely didn't happen keep the heat cranked up to 11 right the following
00:39:48
month they bring in the FBI FBI come in and take a look at this case conduct your own independent
00:39:58
investigation we will supply you with everything we have and then tell us what you think happened
00:40:06
so the FBI comes in they examine everything they put together an offender profile they they profile the whole the
00:40:12
whole case the whole scenario none of this information other than the FBI being brought in and conducting their
00:40:18
own independent investigation is released to the public so we don't know what their findings were we don't know
00:40:24
what kind of profile they came up with but what I can sit here and say and you know this Captain just as well as I do
00:40:31
we've seen this in dozens of cases police are pretty certain that they know what happened
00:40:37
a couple years go by they're not able to close the case or make an arrest you bring in an independent investigation
00:40:46
somebody like the FBI or BCI or we've seen it with gbi and all the other eyes that are out there yeah or the MF FBI
00:40:54
yeah as many eyes as you can put on the case right we're not talking about eyeballs we're talking about the the
00:41:00
letter I I just love to be questioning somebody and go you know what we just did we just brought in the MF FBI yeah
00:41:08
could be going What the [ __ ] FBI and we're starting just so you know we're starting up the tcgi
00:41:15
True Crime garage investigations um and we're cheap so Dirt Cheap we work for beer uh you bring in the FBI they
00:41:24
conduct their own investigation you don't release any of that information to the public and you know why and we've
00:41:30
seen this a dozen of times we've been told this from other investigators we brought in the FBI on our case
00:41:37
you don't need to tell the public anything because guess what happened they came to the
00:41:42
same conclusion that they the the police came to we don't need to release the offender
00:41:48
profile because they came to the same conclusion that we did and I'm certain that this has happened
00:41:55
in this case and I think that really you could probably narrow down your suspects
00:42:00
to two or three people it's Christopher Herbert it's Mike Mason or an unknown individual
00:42:10
and it could be more than one person within that group of three we could have two or three people who
00:42:18
were resp who's to say that Christopher Herbert didn't have a bunch have Mike Mason and a friend over and they decided
00:42:24
to just party at the house right or they're in the garage cooking up meth and then Heather stumbles onto this and
00:42:31
and now we feel like we have something we got to cover up do we know if the couple is still together I don't think
00:42:38
's married at the time in the the only thing that I have to base that off of Captain is that Christopher Herbert
00:42:44
spent a good amount of time in in and out of prison so I'm guessing that holding down a
00:42:50
relationship is going to be a little difficult when you when you locked up yeah um we also know that Mike Mason has
00:42:57
spent a good deal of time in prison as well surprise surprise yeah and so what what's interesting though is Mike Mason
00:43:07
is not shy to talk to police or even the media about this case now that doesn't that doesn't sway me either way
00:43:17
on his innocence or guilt yeah stuff like that to me it's like that could mean everything or nothing exactly you're
00:43:25
exactly right I hope it didn't come off that I was just harping on Heather's mother but I do know that there's been
00:43:32
times that Heather's mother has confronted these individuals yes because because when you're not getting in a
00:43:39
straight story you'd obviously become more suspicious and you're leaving your daughter in the hands of two
00:43:47
individuals that you thought were your friends you thought that she would be safe over there
00:43:52
and obviously she wasn't yeah so this is a this is one of the more fun parts of the story I guess is a
00:44:01
really dumb way for me to describe it but there you have it Christine was actually arrested and this was a
00:44:10
handful of months after Heather went missing and Christine firmly believed I'm guessing that she had a good idea or
00:44:20
or had a very strong Theory but a large portion of whatever it is that she believed it's unclear of who she
00:44:28
thought was 100 responsible but it's very clear that she believed that Dana Madden her friend that the
00:44:36
police again confirmed that she was at work that night arrived on time she believed that her friend Dana Mann
00:44:42
knew more than what Dana was telling to police and telling to Christine right and this infuriated her this is a
00:44:50
conversation she she attempted to have many times with her friend Dana clearly she didn't think she was getting the
00:44:56
information that she deserved or or should be told and so she goes to Dana's place of work at the gas station one
00:45:03
night with a baseball bat demanding to know what happened to her daughter and Dana locks herself in a back room in
00:45:12
the back room so that Christine can't get to her calls police and then Christine's arrested
00:45:18
and this for you know menacing or public endangerment something of the Republic um
00:45:25
I don't know exactly what the charge was but we know that she was arrested and charged with something now
00:45:32
unfortunately Christine's no longer with us she she died in her 50s not knowing what happened to her daughter Heather
00:45:39
she did work you can see if you go back through all of the media stuff she spent
00:45:44
her remaining days trying to figure out what happened to her daughter she she spent a lot of time working with other
00:45:51
foundations the class Foundation the poly class Foundation out of California I believe but we see this in a lot of
00:45:58
cases to you know not knowing and feeling possibly responsible and knowing that there's people out
00:46:07
there that possibly have these answers it's like a cancer and we we see it in a lot of cases
00:46:14
whether the the victim is found or not I mean JonBenet Ramsey mother dies Young in this case
00:46:24
mother dies young and and uh Amy mihalovic case mother dies young it's I mean it's
00:46:32
it's a it's horrible and it's just another victim in this crime yeah and I think where the
00:46:41
case stands today captain we're talking about Dana Madden's Alibi confirmed verified by police she was working that
00:46:48
night and police seemed to firmly believe that Heather was alive and well at 10 pm on the 14th and
00:46:59
that something happened to Heather between 10 p.m and 4 a.m on the 15th Christopher Herbert again for reasons
00:47:06
we've discussed that at length it's very difficult to nail down what the true story is we do know that that
00:47:14
they did speak with two of the individuals separately that he was supposedly with
00:47:20
that night it would be very interesting to know if either of them confirmed or denied being
00:47:27
with Christopher Herbert that night it'd be interesting if both of them confirmed
00:47:31
to be with Christopher Herbert that night because if you're supposed to be in different places at the same time
00:47:36
with the same person guess what your two Alibis now become zero alibis yeah I normally have some hope a case
00:47:45
will get solved but I think in this one because of the the drug use the time of the
00:47:52
people of Interest you know time spent in prison chances of them finding the the the
00:48:00
remains I I I I just think I don't have a lot of Hope for this one unless somebody I
00:48:07
agree comes forward unless somebody knows something of substance something that they can prove to police
00:48:15
then I I just don't have a lot of Hope in this one well and I was all but determined to show up at the garage
00:48:24
today here hang out with you Captain jump up on my giant soapbox and scream it from the top of the mountains that I
00:48:33
think that that Christopher Herbert is suspect a number one or he and Mason something happened
00:48:42
there there's a very likelihood that whoever's responsible did not intend to kill
00:48:49
Heather killorn that something happened and they they took measures to dispose of the body
00:48:54
afterwards there's a likelihood that that's a possibility there's a likelihood that somebody did intend to
00:49:00
kill her it's difficult to say based off of the evidence but I was determined to
00:49:04
come in here and say you know what I think the most likely scenario is that the Christopher Herber and Mike Mason
00:49:10
did this together Gotta Give a big shout out here Captain to Stephen Pacheco who
00:49:17
does the trace evidence podcast there's been some storytelling and some some coverage
00:49:26
of this case outside of St Louis as far as YouTube goes but as far as podcasts go trace evidence was the only one that
00:49:34
I could find that covered it at length he always does a good job over there he pointed out something that really kind
00:49:41
of it didn't totally squash my thought my theory that maybe the two of them did it together because the the
00:49:48
thing that I have a hard time getting past is that Christopher Herbert never says he's with
00:49:55
Mike Mason yet he's at a park near the Mississippi River Bank near the Mississippi River
00:50:02
and then Mike Mason tells police oh my toe chains are moving I'm worried that somebody used these chains to
00:50:10
weight down the girl and and dispose of her in the Mississippi River like it seems I get it that the river's right
00:50:18
there but it seems a little weird that these two guys would have this one element in both of their
00:50:26
stories separately and so I wondered if maybe one helped the other with a problem oh I got you know this
00:50:36
happened this happened I didn't mean for it to happen now I got to get rid of this uh-huh if something like that
00:50:41
occurred and again trace evidence Stephen Pacheco doesn't completely squash my theory but brings
00:50:49
up a good a good and and impressive observation you got two guys that are in and out of prison on lesser charges some
00:50:59
of them facing years because they're repeat offenders it would make a whole lot of sense that
00:51:06
that person a would turn on person B for a plea bargain in some other lesser crime
00:51:12
and say look right law enforcement if you can if you can help me out I can help you out well that's a that that's a
00:51:20
very intelligent point to point out the other thing too when we're talking about
00:51:24
media coverage this is not necessarily in Heather killorn's case but if you start digging into this case
00:51:32
there unfortunately is a lot or were a lot in a period of 10 years in this Greater St Louis area of
00:51:43
children going missing and there many of these stories are much different than the Heather killorn case
00:51:51
Heather killorn was at that apartment whatever happened to her happened it started in that apartment where she
00:51:57
ended up we don't know but a lot of these other kids were abducted while they were walking home
00:52:04
getting off the school bus out riding a bike and unfortunately it appears that there
00:52:10
was probably about three different child killer child abductor offenders operating in this area within about a 10
00:52:20
to 20 year time period so in some weird way she kind of becomes just another face on
00:52:27
a milk carton where they cover these stories in the newspaper year after year and you see her face her name the
00:52:35
details of her case of Heather's case piled on three four five other cases that were
00:52:43
still outstanding in one of those cases was a young girl by the name of Angie houseman
00:52:52
and Angie houseman's case is weird when you look into it Captain because it's like they her case went
00:52:59
unsolved for so long and it was such a mystery for so long that anytime another kid came up missing
00:53:08
they investigated the possibility if Angie houseman's case was related to the latest missing kids case right and that
00:53:16
too was true with Heather killorn we'd know 100 that no that's not the situation
00:53:24
I shouldn't say 100 let's go with 98 but we have police telling us in Heather killorn's case her the person
00:53:31
responsible knew Heather Heather knew them in Angie houseman's case they were able to finally solve her case
00:53:41
using DNA evidence in the person responsible for that was Earl Webster Cox who was actually serving life in
00:53:49
prison when they connected him to the Angie Houseman case many many years later now if you want to learn more about that
00:53:57
case there's a great coverage on the Angie Houseman case and that was on the Case with Paula Zahn the TV show season
00:54:05
23 episode 7 which aired in September of 2021. yeah one of the things that is very interesting and you have to applaud
00:54:15
police for this is that they spent time monitoring these individuals uh for a time period to try to solve
00:54:23
this case yes an extended period of time that that cost a lot of money man hours
00:54:28
and resources to monitor individuals so unfortunately captain and unfortunately garage listeners
00:54:36
Heather's disappearance remains unsolved and Foul Play is strongly suspected as the captain pointed out there's been a
00:54:44
group of people a group of suspects over the years who have been monitored in connection to Heather's disappearance
00:54:50
but no one has been officially labeled as a suspect we do have police saying that they believe they have a prime
00:54:59
suspect and that their prime suspect they have some evidence against and one piece they believe is that that this
00:55:06
individual failed a polygraph examination no arrests have been made in this case
00:55:13
Heather who disappeared while babysitting for the infant daughter of family friends Christopher Herbert and
00:55:18
Dana Madden she's of course abducted sometime during the night or early morning hours this is
00:55:26
what police have told us and this is where the case stands to this day this is a case that I think that if they find
00:55:35
the right evidence that we might see this case Advance sometime soon we know that we are seeing success coming out of
00:55:45
the St Louis area on a lot of their cold cases remember in 2021 they solved 30 of
00:55:53
their cold cases in that year alone I'm hoping that Heather's case can be one that solved this year
00:56:00
[Music] [Music] thank you I want to thank you so much for donating to the Beer fund for
00:56:17
listening to the show for sharing and telling friends and families about the True Crime garage flying garage ship
00:56:25
Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week it's a little self-serving here Captain but I'm going
00:56:31
to recommend my book The Delphi murders the quest to find the man on the bridge the reason why we got a book signing
00:56:39
coming up this Saturday at hoof hearted in Marengo Ohio join me there if you can
00:56:45
from 2 to 4 P.M on Saturday I'll be selling and signing books if you already have one just bring it with you and we
00:56:52
will have a beer and a laugh together hope to see as many people there as possible that's this Saturday from two
00:57:00
to four at hoof hearted in Marengo Ohio yeah and if you need some lighter reading check out my book whoever smelt
00:57:08
it dealt it you can find that on Amazon Prime and until next week be good be kind and don't litter
00:57:16
[Music] [Applause] thank you [Music]