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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] hit him with the high hit him with the
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H I've been saying that b yeah Howard old Howard the question here's a question that I think I'm always going
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to get and the question usually is had a good conversation how tall are you and the answer is 7' 4 how much do you weigh
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461 lbs everybody thinks you're like 60 and overweight they say you sound maybe I have the voice of a 60-year-old
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overweight man is that what it is that's I sound like that or maybe I talk maybe
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the way I put my words together have face and a head of that you know the rest of your body's skinny but well I
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told you remember I won the Mr Potato Man contest which which paid $5 to the winner but anyway great conversation
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that I had Friday night over a couple drinks and it's a question that I keep hearing is when do you think that you'll
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run out of material when do you think that the show drinking won't have anything to talk about
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what do you mean who am I drinking with who are you drinking with I'm not going to say who I was drinking with that's
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not important what what is important is that question and no no I I mentioned that here because I've been asked that
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by a hundred different times by 100 different people when will the show be over is that what they're asking no no
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no no that's not it it's when will we not have enough material to continue the show right then the show would be over
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right yes that's but that's that's not the question right but that's not the question yeah and my my easy response to
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that is is [ __ ] you no it's if we lived in a perfect world this show would have
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never have started to begin with and and unfortunately we see on the news every single day something terrible some
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person some POS doing something terrible to somebody else and that's a crime and
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we talk about True Crime it's like it it's it's almost never ending um it's and and In the Heat of the Moment
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in the back of my mind and no disrespect anybody but I'm always like seems like such a silly question like it like a it
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just isn't you know what I mean it doesn't seem like a go-to to me sometimes people are making
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conversation um yeah but there there's a difference between you know a murder and interesting murder well
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there's some cases that aren't that interesting or there's not much information there so and that's one
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thing I don't think a lot of I don't think some of the listeners understand is that yeah but but hold on too because
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you're talking about there's a lot of cases that go unsolved and some of that is due to the
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lack of scientific evidence or or the procedures you know or the testing that they can do I mean back in the day you
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you hope that you find a fingerprint M you know now with DNA testing with all the other tests that they can do um
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these cases are becoming more solved and I think there is I think what they're getting at is
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there's a lot of these some of the most fascinating cases are the unsolved cases
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and are we going to see that yeah I I can agree with that I I you know we are very lucky to we get a
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lot of our let's call it material or cases that we that's better to say cases that we select to put on the show from
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the listeners you know we get emails we get tweets and we get it's a lot of hey guys would you look into this or hey
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guys would you cover this story this is a case I knew about from my childhood or
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from my hometown um and we've said this before the better the email the better the information on the email the faster
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that thing gets to our short list and of course sometimes we get emails that say
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Hey I live in Chicago and some guy disappeared here in the 90s could you look into it no we can't I mean because
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most likely there were several people that that happened to we don't know who you're talking about oh right right but
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if they give us a name or or it's it always helps if they give you a name possibly a link you know or possibly
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here's the name here's the you know here's a couple missing posters you know sometimes the emails are very detailed
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oh yeah yeah and no I love those links are great and the reason being is if you just give us a victim's name um if it's
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especially if it's a common name right you know at least name and location is great it really helps us narrow it down
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but you know I was telling this person I said the the great thing about our listeners is that they want to be
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involved and they are involved and they reach out to us and they're like hey cover this case and so I told them I
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said you know they do some of the leg work in a sense for us because we pick all of our cases from listener
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suggestions yeah and the funny thing is we've done so many shows that now we receive suggestions for cases that we've
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already covered from time to time and I never know how to reply well sometimes they're new listeners um that that
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haven't listened to the old stuff and then the other thing too is I didn't I didn't didn't really think about this at
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the time when we were doing it but if you were a new listener and you were just like flipping through our back
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catalog and looking for stuff to listen to if we didn't title something the offender's name or the victim's name
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right you know CU sometimes we get kind of story bookish and we we will a clever
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name Will present itself or we will come up with one from time to time and so if
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you're flipping through the catalog and you see something like the fifth nail well that doesn't tell you the victim's
00:06:30
names or the offender name right but very lucky to receive those from all of our wonderful listeners and we I want
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except for the people that send me uh John B Ramsey and Stephen Avery okay so it cuz I think we've mentioned well
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we've definitely mentioned multiple times that that the John B Ramsey one is just
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it's a mountain of a case right so and it's been covered by so many people so I understand that you know and maybe
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that's something that we'll cover Loosely one day I there actually should be a bunch of popular cases that people
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ask us for that we should just cover on off the Record because they don't actually want to hear all the details
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they just really want to hear our thoughts okay you know what I mean like a lot of people are like yeah okay like
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this person last week was like saying cover John B Ramsay and he said well there's tons of people that cover that I
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mean we're talking about thousands of and some people have covered it very well yeah and some people not so well so
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we're talking about we're we're talking about it would take us weeks to get that
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information so so it it probably have to be if we ever did cover it it have to be
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there's so much misinformation of that case it have to be like when we had a week off mhm so we'd have two weeks to
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research it and then so then I also said well you know CBS did a really good job
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of going over some of this evidence and and kind of laying out some of the the thoughts there and she goes yeah I just
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really want to hear your guys's thoughts on it right so maybe some of those cases
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we should just go hey we're not going to go over the de details but this is what
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our gut feeling is saying after we've looked at the evidence that's an incredibly interesting idea incred just
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to take just to go hey it's better than whatever we're talking about right now well so
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here's the thing this is a good question what would you say are the top two or three you know I'm not going to hold you
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to a specific number but what would because we receive these requests sometimes they email both of us
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sometimes they email us separately and of course you do the Social Media stuff so people are reaching out to you that
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way as well I'm 100 messages behind on Instagram what what would you say would be the top two or three cases that get
00:08:58
recommended or requ requested to you um John B Ramsey Steven Avery I already gave those obviously um
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Scott Peterson okay th those three lately which is weird because those three I very rarely receive a request
00:09:17
for which but but I think I've put out there that on something I mean I'm extremely fascinated by the Jan Ramsey
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casee extremely fascinated uh Scott Pearson case I I never was interested in I I just thought he was a horrible
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dicknose and and move on you know uh he's convicted and but lately you know I'm a big Adam Cora fan I was listening
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to Adam Cora talk and Mark garos is um Scott Pearson's attorney and he said definitively that his client didn't do
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it and that he believes that when they get a chance they're going to be able to prove that and I I have a lot lot of
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respect for Mark gagos and so the fact that he said that I'm going what does he know that is not being presented mhm
00:10:06
because there is a theory that there was some home break-ins um you know in that area so
00:10:14
that possibly whoever is breaking into the houses would be responsible for his wife and his daughter's death well and I
00:10:21
can absolutely say this um that's a case that we plan to cover at some point probably soon probably soon what are
00:10:30
your three that you get the most you think well before we move on to that I do want to throw this out there about
00:10:36
Scott Peterson yeah so regarding the Scott Peterson case I've always thought this guy's guilty as hell okay now I'm
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not going to claim to have looked into it uh years ago I looked into the case pretty well at least I thought but had a
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conversation this last weekend with somebody and this is a guy that knows cases and he knows how to really look at
00:11:00
them and read between the lines however he's a dude that that typically will lean towards the side of they're all
00:11:07
guilty you know uh whoever they caught whoever they threw Behind Bars they got it right he kind of leans that way when
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he has to and having a conversation with him he goes Scott Peterson did he absolutely did not kill them and I
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thought okay well now I'm interested now I want to know more about this case I told him I said don't tell me anything I
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don't want to know your opinions about it um you know this is something that we've put on our short list so we'll
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cover it and then I'll get the chance and you'll get the chance to dive into those details and see if we can find
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what some of those other people are claiming to mean that Scott Peterson who I still think is guilty as hell but
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there's smart people out there saying that he's innocent so it's it'll be interesting to see what that is what
00:11:55
what was this true story that was based on um what was that guy's name I can't remember his name the movie
00:12:05
true story yeah James Franco yeah but he he he killed his family later confesses
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Christian Longo was that that's right if you Google him I think that's who it is
00:12:16
that's correct and um I believe he eventually cracks and tells the truth and then this guy
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recently wife goes missing his two daughters go missing he's on TV saying I just want them home mhm something
00:12:32
happens that that's an interesting case like what's that guy's what's that guy's
00:12:37
name right God I can't remember anybody's name today um but that guy I think that I think the FBI or law
00:12:45
enforcement had something on him the the guy that's recently confessed the guy in
00:12:50
Colorado he killed his wife and two children right okay and he's I mean he's saying I want him home two days later
00:12:58
he's saying okay I did it with the C Scott Pearson case now we know he's a known liar we know that right and we
00:13:07
know that he's a cheater right that's what that's why it makes it a little easy to go yeah but but Chris what's his
00:13:13
name Christian Longo Christian Longo was super liar super liar I mean like he lied he lied more than Scott Peterson if
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that's possible I think he told people I people probably didn't even ever know Christian Longo's real name cuz he just
00:13:27
told people whatever I mean he didn't he pretended to be a journalist didn't he like he was using a real life person's
00:13:35
name when he was on the run and it happened to be a journalist that he had read like that he had respect for yes
00:13:42
that's like that's like me going on the run and I'm like you know what I'm taking a new identity and my name is
00:13:48
Edward Van Halen I'll be living I'll be living in the Cleveland area is that you
00:13:53
doing the fast finger tapping so cases that I get asked to cover the most there's a case uh victim's name is
00:14:02
Morgan nick uh out of Arkansas maybe because your name is Nick well I don't know if it's that it's I think it's
00:14:10
because it's probably very likely one of the most one of the more famous well-known cases from Arkansas and to be
00:14:18
honest with you Captain I'm not certain I don't know enough about it to even tell you if it's unsolved or solved but
00:14:23
I do know that that one is asked a lot the weird thing is we I get a lot of requests for the state of Arkansas in
00:14:31
general and I don't know if I I know we have a good deal of listeners there because the boys on the tracks coverage
00:14:37
that we did really got people in Arkansas listening to the show uh so that's one that jumps off the page for
00:14:44
me that oh another one is the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders that's one that that we get
00:14:52
requested a lot yeah I see that one on and the thing too is what I do is I I write down like a daily list and then I
00:15:00
have like a master list so when I go over to the master list I kind of see uh you know I I'll write down that
00:15:07
that that somebody asked for a job in a Ramsey and then I kind of just put a check mark by it yeah there's there's a
00:15:12
couple cases that a check marks keep on flying through so what else what else you get yeah I do the same thing with my
00:15:18
list I I will I will seek out the the victim or uh offender's name whatever however I wrote it on the list
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originally and I will put I will put a check or a tally mark next to it so I know so I can go at a glance and go you
00:15:32
know what well this case has been recommended like 30 times we have to cover it at some point yeah and the the
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interesting thing though too is when we pick the cases we'll we'll start you know you'll create you know a list of
00:15:45
like five or six that you're getting a lot mhm and then normally especially the cases I've never heard of you know I'll
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Google and I'll start writing down a couple things so each case has a few notes by it just so I know um you know
00:16:01
what state it was in um you know because sometimes we're getting a lot of missing
00:16:05
persons in Ohio we get a lot of those um probably because we're in Ohio but it's
00:16:11
like um our show we wanted to try to dive into all different kinds of cases so you know we we try not to cover you
00:16:20
know four or five missing person cases in a row right we try to switch it up from week to week so you know because
00:16:27
everybody has different cases Intrigue different individuals for different reasons yeah
00:16:33
well and it's weird though too because I think it's all just where you're at in your life also where you're at in the
00:16:40
week and where you're at in the day when you're Googling these cases because some
00:16:44
of the cases um that we put on the list like maybe initially I'm going oh that's
00:16:49
going to be okay or maybe I'm not as um as interested in that case mhm and then there's sometimes where it's like then
00:16:58
the week comes that it's time to research that case and it's like the first Google search I'm I'm hooked right
00:17:05
and I'm like oh my God this this is fascinating the the tricky thing for me though is to when when these suggestions
00:17:13
come in you do it requires you to spend a little time to you know take five minutes and and get familiar with the
00:17:22
with the story a bit with the case a bit and then jot down some notes put it on your list the only tricky thing though
00:17:30
is on nights when I spend quite a bit of time doing that I have to remind myself
00:17:35
at some point we've already selected a case to cover for next week there are details in that case and I don't want to
00:17:41
mesh them with anything uh from an outside case and get things confused that well and that's the other tough
00:17:47
thing when people are s when they start suggesting hey there's this um documentary tonight on on whatever
00:17:57
oxygen mhm MH or did you see this new show it's like sometimes it's like I I actually shouldn't watch that right
00:18:06
because I'm I need to focus on this one case and then normally it's it's weird because um you know we'll
00:18:12
record you know let's say on a Tuesday and put out that show there's some You' think that it'd be like true Crim out
00:18:20
but it's weird it seems like on the days that we record those are the days that I
00:18:23
start catching up on the the True Crime docks one one case that we got that I believe to
00:18:32
be one of my top two or three request would have been a Kinka Jenkins update Kena Jenkins update she was the girl
00:18:42
that died in the in the hotel in the Chicago area and the reason why I think I received so many requests for that
00:18:51
type of show which we ended up we were lucky enough to have this platform to have off the Record which we both love
00:18:58
and everybody else seems to love it too so we were able to give an update there and I was very happy to do so because I
00:19:05
know so many people wanted to hear that and I think we got so many requests for that because I don't know how many
00:19:13
people were talking about that case at length like we did that early on and so it got a lot of people it made a lot of
00:19:22
awareness for the actual case outside of the great state of Illinois mhm and it put a lot of ears on the case and people
00:19:30
wanted to know the update what what happened what actually happened what was learned since the time that we covered
00:19:37
the case what what happened well and if you haven't heard that episode then you know we can tell you I mean to sum up
00:19:45
our beliefs whatever their findings were law enforcement findings that's also what the family beliefs happen uh they
00:19:52
stand by the findings um they did their I believe a separate investigation on top of the investigation so you could
00:20:01
pretty much just Google um the results of that case and and and you're going to kind of know where we stand MH cuz I I
00:20:09
mean that'd be a lot for us to go against not only law enforcement but go against her family right so the the the
00:20:18
findings were considered to be quote unquote accurate so uh we we will kind of leave it at that okay
00:20:27
so what is um you can name more than one what is a case that you would love to cover but because of the difficulty we
00:20:40
we haven't difficulty that we haven't and probably won't Jack the Ripper and and and you
00:20:49
know this a lot of the listeners don't know this but um you know this Jack the Ripper is is a case for me that um yeah
00:20:57
remember live it sounds weird to say this but I I love that case like I I I love the case in a sense that there's so
00:21:04
much information out there there's so many people that have looked at the thing over the years and there's so many
00:21:11
theories I mean the case is huge it's just it's absolutely huge and impossible the only the only way you could cover it
00:21:19
would be to give like a primer like a very basic primer of the case and then let people decide if they're interested
00:21:27
enough to go and look into it on their own I think um but to me I hold that case in such high regard that if I if if
00:21:37
we did cover it I would want to cover it in a very unique way the problem with that I can silence it no but the the
00:21:46
problem with that Captain would be that it it would be extremely lengthy that's what she said and the thing being is
00:21:55
that it would almost need to be its own show its own separate show by itself where it's you know one season and you
00:22:02
and you you tear through the thing as much as you can that's actually horrible words I'm
00:22:07
sorry remember when we lived together in the apartment you had the Jack the Ripper thing on CDs yeah the library it
00:22:15
was like a book and it was like 20 CDs or something insane you had to like carry around this like it was like a a
00:22:23
CD folder uhhuh I just remember thinking at the time like oh that's you're going
00:22:29
to listen to a book on type tape that's probably actually the first time we ever
00:22:34
really talked about um talk radio or audio books M was back then yeah that any case other than that uh one that we
00:22:47
haven't covered because it's lengthy the or for any other reason yeah for any other reason um I share your opinion on
00:22:55
John Benet I've said on here that there there's a a a serial killer named Donald
00:23:01
Gaskins Peewee Gaskins yeah I don't want to cover him just because I can't I've looked into his case and I've read books
00:23:10
on his case and uh he sickens and appalls me to I I I can't do the research I can't do the I can't read
00:23:18
about him again you know what I mean and so that would be one that was would be an absolute no um Ted Bundy's weird man
00:23:27
because I almost feel like I know we did three episodes on Bundy but I I feel like Bundy's somebody that you can talk
00:23:37
about till the end of time you know there's just so much about his cases and about the victims that and you know he
00:23:46
he was cross country basically a CrossCountry killer he's a guy that escaped twice and I know that it's not a
00:23:54
great answer because we technically covered it we did three episodes on it um and I think all three of those might
00:24:01
have gone over the hour mark but I think Ted Bundy is somebody that you could do
00:24:06
20 episodes on yeah I I Bundy I think you could I actually think you could talk about dmer I mean we only did one
00:24:15
episode on dmer right um but I think dmer is an individual that if you really start looking at all the little tiny
00:24:24
details of his actions I think you could talk about a really long time you could
00:24:28
do a whole series on it mhm um the other one I think that you could talk about you know you could be born until you die
00:24:36
you could talk about West Memphis 3 I mean that case uh that's probably the case that we've talked about the most
00:24:43
between us off when we're not recording the show is is probably and I think you could talk about that too so one idea
00:24:52
that you and I have kicked around several times and we just don't know how it would go over until we do it that's
00:24:58
what's risky about what we do you know we want the listeners to be entertained we want them to be in the
00:25:05
conversation however we don't know if they're going to like something until we release it so it's a little bit risky on
00:25:12
our end now one idea that we've kicked around and I would love to get some feedback to hear if people want to
00:25:19
actually hear this is similar to the idea that you stated earlier where you take a case maybe it be a case that we
00:25:25
covered or a case we didn't cover and for a portion of off the Record or for one episode of off the Record you just
00:25:31
look into one aspect of that case what's one thing that we could dive into for 20
00:25:37
minutes or 30 minutes and really kind of look at it and dissect it and and examine it you know somebody like like
00:25:44
Ted Bundy there's I'm telling you Captain like uh a couple weeks ago good example I'm looking up information on
00:25:51
other cases and I stumble across some Bundy thing that I remember watching or reading years ago but I kind of forgot
00:25:58
about it and my thought was man I found this interesting back then I found it ex
00:26:03
I still find it extremely interesting today you know I would love to hey let's let's talk about this just this one
00:26:09
little thing inside the case uh and just get our thoughts and feelings on it yeah
00:26:15
I mean or take like uh West Memphis 3 you could talk about the blue wax Stephen Avery's case you could talk
00:26:22
about the keys or the the law enforce the the uh police Department that wasn't supposed to be involved but was involved
00:26:30
in the investigation ad on Sayed you could talk about the rig mortis um part of that case um there's so
00:26:39
many uh big time cases um that that that would uh I think you could just dive into little sections of them and it' be
00:26:49
pretty interesting well let me give you like a like an a specific example okay and so you can you can give me your
00:26:56
thoughts either here or off off off the off off the Record um there is no off off the Record [ __ ] that's what we
00:27:04
should do uh if our fourth show the we have another show coming out called off off the Record yeah if Stitcher says hey
00:27:13
we're doing really well we'd like for you guys to do another show a week we'll say oh perfect we got the perfect name
00:27:21
for it and the best idea ever it's called off off the Record that's right this is strictly off off the record it's
00:27:29
so these are specific ideas all right regarding the West Memphis 3 so two things I I about a month or two ago and
00:27:40
I do this every couple of years for whatever reason I sit down and I watch touch yourself Paradise Lost and the
00:27:48
first one are all of them it well it it always turns into all three of them it's
00:27:53
like once you start down that road you can't stop question now do you also watch west of Memphis after that
00:28:01
that that would be the fourth um movie of the actually I watch that one the least like if I sit down to watch
00:28:09
Paradise Lost doesn't have the same character right and I and I know I know when I start to watch the first one that
00:28:15
within the next week or two I will have watched all three of them now sometimes I'll Venture on further to the west of
00:28:22
Memphis but um typically not and what's weird is that for me is is actually has more case type information yeah where
00:28:33
the other three have a not much of that at all and it's more of just watching I'm a sucker for that like grainy looks
00:28:41
like it was filmed with with you know my dad's home VHS camera and is that why the video You released on our YouTube
00:28:51
channel looks like that yes that was that was completely thought out andage no that was just something that
00:28:58
needed to be done so um but these are two ideas that I found last time that I watched Paradise Lost one was one thing
00:29:07
that I I cannot get over and I will not get over is Damen eckl's statement about
00:29:13
when he refers to himself as the boogeyman of West M oh my God so we're not going to talk about that here today
00:29:18
because we could talk about that for an hour right oh you know how many people just got boners and Lady boners right
00:29:25
now like they they want to talk about it I'm a big tease so here's the other one
00:29:31
and this is not one that that we've discussed between the two of us before I don't I don't believe we've had so many
00:29:37
conversations it's hard to remember so here's the other one when I was watching it and this was in part three uh
00:29:44
Paradise Lost part three that I noticed something in the background that I found
00:29:48
interesting and I don't know if this points to anything or means anything but when Mark buers is at his home this is
00:29:56
after his wife has passed away you know many years after the case in part three he's sitting there at his desk and in
00:30:03
the background on his desk I can see several and I don't have an exact number here but it but it's several it's not
00:30:12
one it's not two it's many John Douglas books the the FBI Mind Hunter guy and I found that I don't know what I think of
00:30:23
that and and maybe we put some thought in that and have a conversation about that as well
00:30:27
but is that is that me being weird or is that just is it kind of weird yeah or maybe the fact that he
00:30:36
got basically sucked into the legal system and the crime world I mean we're talking about one of the most talked
00:30:45
about cases of all time well that case specifically would have been mentioned in at least two or three of those books
00:30:52
so maybe he read those because that case was mentioned specifically and two or three those books and then he goes hey I
00:30:58
really like reading John Douglas so I just buy whatever he puts out but it was a little unsettling and and I well one
00:31:06
could argue that he might not know how to read um I think he read at church like
00:31:12
he read aloud at church and I know he could train himself to memorize what he's it's a speech he could memorize it
00:31:19
but um no I wouldn't you know look he's he doesn't come off as the smart AR or the he doesn't come off as
00:31:29
the sharpest tool in the shed let's say but I think at times I'm in that same shed so I I can say that fairly and
00:31:37
accurately but um I don't see any reason why he couldn't read it was it was really weird
00:31:44
though to see the BTK hunting the BTK book on his desk yeah but maybe he thought again or
00:31:53
maybe he read them and thought that he could learn something from this learn something to help his own case I
00:31:59
mean this case of his son being killed right because I mean we kind of went over the
00:32:06
evidence it's really hard I mean even though in in Paradise loss episode two they kind of put it on him saying he is
00:32:15
the killer right but I think the evidence kind of points away from that so again if he if he's not the killer
00:32:23
then he's looking to F figure out who is MHM and uh I don't know so yeah I mean that that'd be good
00:32:33
to like maybe cover not the whole case but just a section of the case the only the only thing that you get into is if
00:32:41
somebody doesn't know any information about the case mhm and then you you we start going off on these tangents and
00:32:48
and if you don't know anything about the case people are going I don't know anything well with some of them you know
00:32:53
that's when you direct them to your original coverage you know we we did do three pretty good episodes on West
00:32:59
Memphis [Music] [Applause] 3