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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:43
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and that is enough of the bsiness okay everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:37
[Music] crime all right Captain I want to get into the composite sketch es the sketches that were made of our suspect
00:04:02
in the Amy mahalic abduction which turns to murder so we have an interesting situation here in this case and I've
00:04:12
seen it from time to time in some other cases but I want to point out that I find this to be very rare it's very rare
00:04:20
that this occurrence happens so in this case in Amy's case shortly after she is abducted there is a
00:04:28
composite SK that is released to the public via newspapers and this is kind of the best
00:04:36
way to describe this sketch what we would later learn is that early on when this composite was
00:04:45
released this is based off of two separate eyewitness accounts two of Amy's peers so two children I believe
00:04:55
both of them were 11 years old that saw a man approach Amy and then lead her away initially what they did is they
00:05:04
collected all that information from both of these eyewitnesses and they made one
00:05:09
single composite drawing based off of that information later what happens is we have the FBI releases two composite
00:05:19
sketches based on two eyewitnesses of the suspect wanted in the October 27th disappearance of 10-year-old Amy
00:05:27
mahalic we went through the brief description in yesterday's show but the suspect was described as 30 to 35 years
00:05:35
old between 5'8 and 5' 10 in tall of medium build with dark hair possibly curly hair with a bald spot on top in
00:05:46
the rear like top rear of the head with a trace of a beard growth and possibly wearing round glasses and a tan jacket
00:05:54
so what we need to point out here is that we have two young individuals giving this eyewitness account and both
00:06:01
of them are not spoton with each other right so we have one that says yes wearing glasses another that says no one
00:06:10
that says a trace of a beard one that says wearing a tan jacket so that's why I think they did their due diligence
00:06:17
here they could have just rock and rolled with that one composite drawing that they had from the get-go but I
00:06:24
think that would have been irresponsible yeah but it's not like the deli murders
00:06:28
where drawing one and drawing two are are almost completely different these are pretty similar similar in likeness
00:06:35
and and to be honest with you if that's why I think the first one is just kind of a mash of the the two eyewitness
00:06:43
accounts because actually if we want to label these composite sketch one two and
00:06:48
three they're all somewhat similar but to be clear these eyewitnesses are not saying this is more than one man that
00:06:56
they saw with Amy that day at the shopping plaza right this is just two different individuals giving what they
00:07:03
believe that they saw from their Vantage points on that afternoon so I think the
00:07:08
key thing to do here is to really kind of hone in on the similarities between the three composite sketches to really
00:07:19
hone in on the things that that are all the same right because that to me would point out the truths to these eyewitness
00:07:27
accounts where some of these items are speculative one thing I think you should really hone in on is the age right so 30
00:07:36
to 35 years of age now of course age is always very hard to detect especially from
00:07:43
11-year-old children that are not they're not up front and center looking at this guy you know they're a little
00:07:50
bit of ways away from Amy when this happens right but I would guess that they would guess older if the gentleman
00:07:57
looked older the they would guess you know what I mean like when you're a kid you you almost think all adults are
00:08:04
older than they are yeah yeah I agree with that but I think the interesting thought there for me has always been the
00:08:12
the one girl Maddie who reports this man that she saw talking to Amy she makes the assumption that it's Amy's father
00:08:23
now Maddie does not know Amy's father she's not saying or ever has said that was Mark halic that was there that day
00:08:31
at the shopping plaza that Amy left with she's never that's not the story at all
00:08:37
what she's saying at the time is the man to me as a child didn't look at a place
00:08:42
Amy didn't behave strangely when he walked up to her he spoke to her and then they walked away she just made the
00:08:49
assumption that it must be Amy's father but I want to carry that thought and that assumption one step further where
00:08:57
we have two eyewitnesses who say the man was probably between roughly between 30
00:09:03
to 35 years of age well keep in mind Amy's 10 all right I don't know Mark Mahal's age but my situation my father's
00:09:14
like 25 years older than me so that would fall into that that range right to he's of the right age to to make the
00:09:24
assumption that it could be her father mhm so we're not talking about had any of these kids thought that they
00:09:32
saw like you said a much older man or a much younger man I don't think Maddie would have ever made that assumption so
00:09:40
I feel like there's a lot of Truth and there's a lot of weight to that thought that this individual is very likely 30
00:09:49
to 35 years of age now Amy was missing for just over 100 days before her body was found this length of time has caused
00:09:58
much debate about when Amy was killed and when she was dumped there in that field now thank
00:10:05
God that stranger to child abductions are extremely rare the ones that end in Murder typically end in Murder within
00:10:12
just a couple of hours to about 48 hours after the abduction but we must keep in
00:10:18
mind that this stranger to Child Abduction the case of Amy mahalic is very much unlike the others that are out
00:10:27
there almost all stranger to child abductions are simply put crimes of opportunity some sicko drives around
00:10:35
looking for an opportunity looking for a small victim that fits whatever criteria
00:10:40
that they are looking for probably preferably alone and then the result is either talking that child into their
00:10:48
vehicle or dragging that child into their vehicle none of that happened here now citizens in the area of where
00:10:57
Amy's body was found people who drove that that County Road people who walked jogged lived near County Road
00:11:07
1181 when her body was found they were adamant that Amy must have been dumped in that field very recently shortly
00:11:15
before she was found their thought is that how could all these people travel this road or people live in this area
00:11:24
and not have seen the body that was just simply 18 ft or so from the road itself
00:11:31
right we do have sheriffs and and detectives and investigators who have said look it would not have been it
00:11:40
would not have been incredibly hard to see her body but if you were driving on that road you would have to be looking
00:11:49
really in that spot at the right time to see her the the land right because the landscape is such that if if you do like
00:11:56
an overhead look of of that day of the that portion of the of this case's crime scene you you wonder how the hell was
00:12:05
she not located much earlier yeah but I think what they're trying to get to is the idea that that you would spot
00:12:14
something from the road you just wouldn't know what that something was well Janet seabold who found her I
00:12:23
believe her initial reaction or her initial thought to when she spotted something in the field was I think she
00:12:31
said that she thought it was just like a pile of snow like there was nothing discernable
00:12:36
about it to her immediately but I I I would love for Janet seol to go further on record about
00:12:46
that day I will say this in her defense from everything I could find she's been extremely traumatized by this event in
00:12:56
her life and I would love to know more in detail of what she was thinking and in every little minute detail of her
00:13:07
thoughts along the way from the time of this thing caught my eye to I moved closer and realized it was a body but
00:13:15
you said you also said it's what 50 some miles from the mall yeah 48.6 miles according to the FBI's website and I was
00:13:25
telling you because I was doing some traveling this last weekend it was frustrating traveling because it
00:13:31
was like you have 52 miles to go an hour and 10 minutes you know where normally if you're on the freeway that you know
00:13:41
you got 60 minutes to go it's going to take you an hour so is a little bit longer than you're used to because
00:13:49
they're back roads and and I would assume you know but this is an hour or so away and that really starts making
00:13:59
you question yes the calls are coming within a certain area code but does that mean
00:14:06
anything or does that just mean that this murderer lives in that area but works uh or Works in that area lives
00:14:15
somewhere else uh did he know these back roads did he know the location in which she was
00:14:23
dropped that's always been an interesting angle for me you know I I I said a long time ago when we first
00:14:30
covered this case what was that two two and a half years ago when we spoke to James rener about feel was like five
00:14:35
years ago at the time I was working a a job where it required me to drive all over the state of Ohio so I got sent to
00:14:42
Bay Village a few times for work and the job was such that I would leave I never
00:14:49
overnighted anywhere I would leave from Columbus in the morning do whatever jobs
00:14:54
they sent me out on and return to Columbus before the end of the day so on one of these trips to Bay Village
00:15:01
I ended up finishing up quite early and I thought okay well I'm going to take a roundabout way of getting back to
00:15:10
Columbus and my my choice of Route was to go from the shopping center to that County Road right 1181 where her body
00:15:21
was found and so I drove that and I'm clocking the miles as I went through there and
00:15:29
it took me 55 minutes to get there which is it which based off of the speed limit
00:15:35
is actually faster in travel than if I would have obeyed the speed limit okay so I think that if you follow the speed
00:15:43
limit it's about a little over an hour hour and six or an hour and 10 something like that I wasn't going incredibly fast
00:15:52
but to your point the thing that that really started to get to me about 30 40 minutes into the drive and I'm not I'm
00:16:01
still miles away from the location at this point I kept thinking man I feel like
00:16:07
I've this is a a long trip from point A to point B and I don't have any in my car that's going to make the
00:16:16
trip feel longer I don't have alive victim or a dead victim in my in my vehicle and so I think you're right
00:16:27
there on something and I think that there is a lot of Truth and weight to what you've just said there's got to be
00:16:34
some kind of connection or reason to be traveling in this direction now for no reason at all would we ever think that
00:16:45
she went immediately from the shopping center to directly to this area where she was later found right because we
00:16:53
have investigators saying that there is no evidence no evidence whatsoever to suggest that she was killed in that
00:17:00
location so she was assaulted and killed elsewhere could it have been in a van or
00:17:06
a vehicle that's not out of the realm of possibility personally looking at this case as long
00:17:13
as I have I've always kind of believed that the Friday her being abducted on a Friday was is significant right like I
00:17:23
said if they worked in that area you make the call Thursday while you're at work right cuz the call came in on the
00:17:32
Thursday well we don't know for certain when the call came in but it could have coming in Thursday Wednesday Tuesday
00:17:39
Monday right but it's coming during the week during work and then Friday got heading back to where I'm where I live
00:17:49
and so I'm going to take her on the way well and think about this I I think it's probably working there is not out
00:17:58
of the a possibility I think it might be more likely that the person was living or staying somewhere in that area or at
00:18:06
least that would cause them to travel that direction you know what I mean from Bay Village so yeah also makes you
00:18:14
wonder too because there is this Gap from the abduction time to where they find her and that makes me question and and
00:18:27
have always questioned did this person because there was so much attention in that area did they feel the
00:18:33
heat and then did they did they end up moving mhm that could be very likely because
00:18:42
the problem there is you have these composite sketches out and really what the police were getting once they
00:18:50
released the composite sketch they were getting all kinds of tips they were getting all kinds of calls the problem
00:18:57
with those calls is they're all look alike calls well why do you think that so and so is a good suspect well he
00:19:04
looks like you're drawing oh well what else well that's it he looks like the sketch That You
00:19:12
released and we have police on record saying when we get these tips we need more than just a name we need we need
00:19:20
you know we're getting so many of them right we need reasons to prioritize certain tips over others we need we need
00:19:29
a car description even though there was none from the eyewitnesses we need a color of a car we need but on top of
00:19:36
that give us give us a reason why other than he looks like the sketch well and that's the same with when you look at
00:19:43
like the Dior case right everybody that saw a a young blond-haired boy called mhm and and it's like well that's not
00:19:53
enough we need we need you know 0.1 23 for us to be able to track down all these leads
00:20:02
mhm yeah and the thing too back to the Friday I think that the Friday her being abducted on a Friday is significant and
00:20:12
here's why one thing we need to focus in on is the abductor chose that day Amy didn't choose that day the abductor
00:20:23
chose that day can you meet me at the shopping center on Friday I'll pick you up then and we can go shopping for a
00:20:32
gift for your mother and I say that that is significant because we have to keep in
00:20:38
mind when this person is trying to convince his victim to meet him somewhere he is designing all this this
00:20:47
is all by his design this is all his modus operandi yeah you wonder if he works a half day on a Friday or if it's
00:20:56
easier for him to take a half day because it it seems like a very odd time she's going to get there about
00:21:03
3:00 yep she got there approximately two she was seen with this man around 245 yeah and I know the song the lyrics go
00:21:12
working 925 what a way to make a Liv so you would just assume that this you know or
00:21:21
do they have a job where they're able to leave for a while like do they make deliveries or
00:21:28
something well I think possibly the reason for the Friday more so than others could be what he does not have to
00:21:38
do or be accounted for after the time of the abduction right okay so if it is a sexually motivated crime which you and I
00:21:47
both believe it to be then that would require his motivation requires him to not be accounted for after the
00:21:57
abduction takes place yeah I mean he can't go back to work with a giant boner well that no that's not what I
00:22:05
mean it's it's somebody was not where they were supposed to be right well why why could that that does not mean that
00:22:15
they simply put if there if someone is where they are not where they are supposed to
00:22:21
be then that and that's a red flag immediately makes them a suspect yeah oh you had all these obligations and all
00:22:29
this stuff that was going on and boom this kid is abducted and then nobody hears from you you drop off of the
00:22:35
planet for 16 24 72 hours right and if you don't know how this abduction is going
00:22:42
to go down then if you have to work you know you don't do the abduction on a Thursday knowing that you have to work
00:22:49
on the Friday knowing that if something goes wrong and you show up to work late you see what I'm saying because
00:22:57
we've seen that with several cases where people that have become number one suspects were showing up to work late
00:23:04
the next day or calling off the next day well and then this leads us to what ends
00:23:10
up being a fourth composite sketch drawing of uh possible suspect because this is an interesting tip that comes
00:23:19
in there is a woman that that called in and said hey I saw somebody standing by a vehicle around
00:23:30
5506 p.m. near the spot where Amy's body was found and I saw this individual standing at the rear of their vehicle
00:23:41
with the it was like a hatchback type vehicle with the hatch open and this was the night before her body was found so
00:23:50
this individual is calling in a tip and this kind of goes along with some of the
00:23:55
locals thoughts of well if was in that field for this for a 100 days we would have seen her well before then so she
00:24:03
couldn't have been she had have been placed there shortly before she was found and now this tip comes in saying
00:24:09
look I saw this individual the night before yeah and who was she found by right a runner mhm right so you're
00:24:16
you're going to tell me that this I'm assuming she's an avid Runner well she says she was on her daily early morning
00:24:23
job right she would have saw her and and that makes the most sense well but I want to argue a few different points on
00:24:31
this I'm actually not in agreeance with this with this tip one or with the thought that she was not in that field
00:24:39
for a long period of time because of a couple things one she's found on February 8th okay um it's pretty cold in
00:24:49
northeaster or northeastern Ohio right in January and February and December so how daily is this daily early morning
00:25:00
jog is this you know she's out jogging on a day that was particularly warm for early
00:25:07
February so you know Janet that's that's again other parts that need to be talked
00:25:15
about with Janet seaboldt who ultimately found Amy mahalik body were you out jogging the day before
00:25:23
did you jog the whole week before and so on and so forth because I I get what they're saying and I can agree with some
00:25:31
of that but I can also see a situation where she's not found for this amount of time keep in mind we had that plant
00:25:38
growth that would suggest that she had been in that field for a good amount of time now the composite that goes out of
00:25:48
this man seen by the hatchback vehicle the night before her body is found the woman said that she saw a 25 to 35y old
00:25:57
white man about 6t tall with a thin face and very thin complexion or very light complexion standing behind a dark blue
00:26:05
hatchback car around 6 p.m. the hatch was open and the man had his hands on the car's back bumper so they released a
00:26:14
completely different sketch this individual does not look anything like the first three composite
00:26:22
sketches that were released but here's here's the big but this information does not make its
00:26:31
way to investigators for months and months and months after Amy was found so I don't question what this woman
00:26:42
believes that she saw what my first question would be is why do you believe that you saw this the night before her
00:26:50
body was found when asked why she didn't come forward with this information sooner
00:26:57
because I think it was like December so we have what 10 months after the body's found before she comes forward mhm when
00:27:07
asked why she didn't come forward sooner she simply says I didn't know that this
00:27:10
information was useful there's a chance she she may not have fully known where the body was
00:27:17
found until a later date and then said aha aha got him I got some information but again the first thing I would want
00:27:27
to know from that witness as an investigator is tell me why you are certain that it was February 7th that
00:27:35
you saw this man yeah I have a hard time with uh Witnesses coming forward so far
00:27:42
after the fact well a lot of people can't tell you what they had for dinner last week so now was there something
00:27:49
significant about that day can can you pull out your daily planner or your calendar and
00:27:55
say oh I had this erand to do and I marked it on my calendar and that's the only time I've ever been on on Route
00:28:04
1181 and so it must have been February 7th when I saw that individual or was that day your birthday or something of
00:28:11
significance for you to really know and remember remember that it was February 7th so I question not what she believes
00:28:20
she saw but I question when she may have saw this there's a chance she could have
00:28:24
saw this individual in March or January or what have you and just has the day wrong it's only significant this
00:28:33
eyewitness account if in fact it was shortly before Amy's body was found the other thing I want to point out here too
00:28:41
is sunset that time of year in Ohio is between 5:30 and 5:50 p.m. if she saw this individual around 6:00 p.m. out on
00:28:52
a County Road it's going to be quite dark out there it's going to be very dark out there I can't speak to what
00:28:59
lights may have been on on this individual's hatchback vehicle but just pointing that out there here's where I
00:29:07
think there is another possibility that the killer the Amy killer once again gets lucky that there's this bad tip
00:29:16
that comes in very late in the game of an individual that looks nothing like the individual that was spotted that day
00:29:24
at the shopping center [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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offered by T-Mobile in Verizon May [Music] 2023 all right we're back you crazy pirates that we are now here is another
00:31:47
instance where the show that you and I love so much M Hunter creeps into another yet another one of our cases
00:31:55
okay and the reason why that happens so often one is our love of the show two more importantly is John Douglas and
00:32:03
Robert K wrestler the two individuals that the main characters are based off of and based off of their careers they
00:32:11
worked and were involved in so many cases now the FBI itself was very involved in Amy's case immediately there
00:32:20
have been some people that have questioned that and thought that maybe that means that there was different
00:32:26
motive for her abduction I want everybody to keep in mind yes the the FBI becomes involved
00:32:34
when crimes occur in cross state lines that happens that didn't happen in this case as far as we know she was likely
00:32:44
not only abducted and dumped in Ohio but likely killed in Ohio as well the thought here though is that you need to
00:32:52
keep in mind that the FBI becomes involved when it's clear that it is a kidnapping case Okay where there is
00:32:59
abduction involved so the FBI was involved in this case very quickly and even the local authorities as soon as
00:33:07
Margaret mahalic reported Amy is missing they hit Jump Street right they went right in and said this is an abduction
00:33:15
this child is missing this child didn't run away we they went looking for her and looking for this man very quickly so
00:33:25
through the course of this with the FBI involvement working with local law enforcement they're trying to
00:33:32
find this individual now this type of incident happens from time to time and I find this fascinating and very
00:33:40
interesting so we have two special agents okay we have special agent John Dunn and Dick Ren all right these two
00:33:50
are working with local authorities on the Amy mahalic case Robert K wrestler visits Ohio for some type of seminar or
00:34:02
some kind of conference at the American Academy of forensic science sciences and
00:34:08
this was in Cincinnati so when he is in Ohio these other special agents reach out to the great and very knowledgeable
00:34:18
Robert K wrestler and they say hey would you mind taking a look at this case while you're in Ohio and wrestler
00:34:26
actually has ties to the city of Cleveland now when you graduate from the FBI Academy and you go on to work uh in
00:34:36
the field this is the way John Douglas describes it I find this quite quite funny he says that when he went to go
00:34:44
work in the field the first thing that the FBI asked you they said well what field office would you like to be
00:34:49
stationed at and he says what you do is you tell them the one you don't want to be stationed at because they
00:34:57
automatically will not put you at the one that you choose right they don't give you your top pick yeah so for
00:35:03
whatever reason wrestler did work at the Cleveland field office for the FBI so he's a great guy he says of course I'll
00:35:11
come up there and I will help you guys out I believe he worked with one or both of these agents on some other case
00:35:18
earlier in his career before Amy's abduction so he's doing them a favor he drives up to the area now I want
00:35:25
everybody to keep in mind wrestler is really only involved in this case for a very short window of time a very brief
00:35:33
period of time he's out doing his work at this American Academy of forensic sciences and basically drives up to Bay
00:35:41
Village for a weekend now while he is up there one thing that is significant that
00:35:46
occurs is the three of these individuals these three FBI agents they put together
00:35:52
a profile of the abductor of Amy mahalic now I want you to keep in mind this takes place in January of
00:36:01
1990 so this is before her body is found wrestler says in his book whoever fights
00:36:09
monsters I wanted the police to look for a man in his late 20s or early 30s who was introverted and a loner relatively
00:36:18
unsuccessful in life unmarried not overly educated but not stupid this would be a man with no military service
00:36:27
but with a propensity for spending a lot of time around kids his smoothness in conning Amy into the car argued for his
00:36:36
knowing something about children and the way their minds work he says I thought it likely that a person who preferred
00:36:44
children's company would not have put himself in a situation such as the military where male bonding is part of
00:36:52
the experience it might just be children of both sexes he was after but it was more
00:36:58
likely he sought out only girls in either case he would be uncomfortable with male and female adults wrestler
00:37:06
felt strongly that Amy's abduction was his first offense because there was no record of any similar abductions in the
00:37:14
area and because the abductor had exposed himself to so much danger by his phone call and by making the abduction
00:37:22
in such a public place as the parking lot where many people could see him wrestler thought that the abductor might
00:37:30
have conned Amy into his car taking her to his home under the pretext of getting
00:37:35
money or a greeting card of some such there he would spend time with her maybe play with her until she became
00:37:44
frightened and started to resist at which point he might have been convinced that he had to kill her wrestler told
00:37:52
authorities to keep an eye out for a person who might try to inject himself into the investigation but now isn't
00:38:01
there some belief that she actually made the call to her mother while in custody
00:38:07
of this murderer well I think that the way that the timeline works out that it has to have worked out that way I think
00:38:17
that because she was spotted at 2:45 and then that's the time when we have witnesses saying that she's leaving
00:38:25
the parking lot with this man leaving the Baskin Robbins area with this man right
00:38:30
245 well we have Jason her older brother who says he arrived at home around 3: at
00:38:36
approximately 3:00 p.m. and he called his mom and said look Amy's not here according to Margaret mahalic Amy called
00:38:46
after Jason called so that meaning that the call took place shortly after Jason called Jason called shortly after 3:00
00:38:53
p.m. which of course is 15 minutes after she was last seen at the Baskin Robins that's a very troubling thing because if
00:39:01
you really break down that time and in actually the shortness of time let's say at the at the end of the
00:39:09
extreme I would say you're probably looking at a 315 320 call from Amy to Margaret
00:39:16
mahalic that means the abductor one has her and two she's not very far away when
00:39:24
that call is placed yeah it also makes me think on the level that that he didn't
00:39:31
know the family because there's so much room for error there I'm going to let her call her mother and if she does
00:39:43
know this person let's say but you know his name is Rick or Tim or whatever that
00:39:50
what if she slips up and says I'm with Rick no and I agree with that I've always kind of belied believe that this
00:39:57
individual the abductor and the killer somehow knew something about Amy or something about Amy's family but the
00:40:06
two Amy and him didn't know each other by appearance or by the sound of their voices I've always just kind of felt
00:40:14
that in my gut I got I got some things to base that off of but it's not hardcore proof
00:40:20
evidence of such I've also wondered regarding this phone call okay so this phone call Margaret says you know hey
00:40:30
Amy sounded rushed she wasn't very talkative I almost wonder if look Amy yes she got tricked and she got fooled
00:40:39
into getting into this guy's vehicle and got tricked into meeting this guy at the
00:40:44
shopping plaza but we have to keep in mind our victim is 10 years old it's not incredibly difficult to trick a child
00:40:53
and that does not really suggest her level of intelligence in fact Amy was considered by all to be very intelligent
00:41:01
she just made a mistake what I think happened here is I think she was on to him I think she had figured out
00:41:10
relatively quickly this is not what it was made out to be I don't think I'm going shopping with
00:41:17
this guy I don't know the level that she thought at the time of that phone call of what her danger level was but I think
00:41:27
she was on to something that this is not what it's what what I was told this was
00:41:31
going to be that's not what seems to be happening here and I wonder if at some point she says to the
00:41:39
abductor as a threat of a way of trying to get herself out of his vehicle look my parents are going to be
00:41:46
looking for me every day when I get home from school I call my mom I have to call
00:41:50
my mother almost as a threat to him of you're going to get caught for this or or you know you need to let me go to
00:42:00
which he's just he could just be reacting to that threat and saying all right we need to buy some more time
00:42:07
maybe I let her make that call but I believe her to be under my control so much that I don't believe that she is
00:42:14
going to give a description of me or more importantly like you said if she did know the individual give his name I
00:42:22
think he felt no threat of her giving his name meaning she didn't know it during that phone call yeah I agree but
00:42:31
I also think that there is a possibility that he did know her and he just felt like the
00:42:37
communication with her was good enough and she felt comfortable enough and they had this ruse of hey call your mom to
00:42:44
let her know you're okay cuz I care about you but make sure you don't tell her you're with me because we're going
00:42:50
to we're surprising her with a with a gift that that's she could still be playing along and still think that
00:42:58
whatever still think that that shopping trip is going to happen yeah I mean this
00:43:03
but there's also the possibility that he has her under 100% control meaning he could have a gun on her or the threat
00:43:12
level is such no but there there was no you know the the mother I think would sense that and maybe I'm wrong cuz you
00:43:19
know well she she did say no no you're not but she she did say she thought the call was strange that she said it was
00:43:26
short it was short and that she thought that Amy's mannerisms were were odd okay
00:43:32
okay so that that would lead more to the idea that well let me let me throw this
00:43:37
idea at you okay while not too hard while while the crispy Colonel is just in the garage throwing things at the
00:43:45
wall to see what sticks let me throw this at you you don't even have to have a gun on the child let's play out this
00:43:52
scenario what if she's detected that some something is not right with the situation I've got to call my mom now
00:44:02
think about this presentation what if this offender then goes on a different angle and portrays himself as some kind
00:44:11
of authority figure and says look little girl you've done something that you shouldn't have done you know better
00:44:18
you're not supposed to meet strangers somewhere you know better than that I'm I'm starting to think that you learned
00:44:25
your lesson if you don't you know let's go ahead and make this call to your mom you don't have to tell her what's
00:44:32
going on because you don't want to get in trouble I think you've learned your lesson let's go ahead and call your mom
00:44:37
you tell her that you're fine and I'm going to take you back to your bike at the
00:44:41
school that's a whole different mind play right there I don't know that he would have been able to come up with
00:44:47
that on the fly but we're also talking about an individual that has spent some time in probably consider considerate am
00:44:55
amount of time focusing in on how to trick these young girls and calling different ones and trying to basically
00:45:05
procure themselves a victim of some sort so I I've always really kind of felt that it's very likely somebody that is a
00:45:16
stranger to Amy or that that doesn't mean that it he's a stranger completely to her family I feel that there is a way
00:45:26
that this guy knew that he was attracted to Amy I don't think he was just cold calling numbers and hoping that some
00:45:34
girl answers the phone I 100% agree with that yeah I think that he already knew somehow that he was attracted to Amy and
00:45:42
she was somewhat targeted I think the other girls that received phone calls were probably targeted as well so I the
00:45:50
interesting thing that's where we differ because I I think the amount of calls that were connected were are very
00:45:57
small right no no we don't differ there I feel 100% the same as you I don't think that for anybody that has said
00:46:05
that there were 10 or 20 or 15 or 25 calls whatever number you want to throw out there there may have been that
00:46:13
amount of people that came forward to authorities and said I received some strange call from some creep I believe
00:46:19
that that maybe that number of people came forward I just think that there's probably only one or two calls like the
00:46:26
police believe that are in fact believed to be connected to Amy's situation yeah
00:46:32
so I've always fell and I do know that that others feel this way so this is not like a mindblowing experience that that
00:46:39
we're all having here today but I've always felt that if you could figure out how this individual knew Amy or knew of
00:46:47
Amy and had some of her information but she did not know him that's your connection that's your way
00:46:55
of finding this guy because unfortunately we sit here and this year on October 27th of this year we're going
00:47:05
to hit the 30-year anniversary of the day that Amy mahalic was abducted and I also probably believe that he took her
00:47:16
on a Friday I think she she was killed by the end of the weekend and very likely dumped in that field sometime
00:47:24
late Sunday night or early Monday morning I think that the Friday is significant to him to him not to the
00:47:33
victim but to him and he chose that Friday for a reason for a reason that he didn't have to be accounted for for a
00:47:40
good amount of time afterwards and I'm kind of putting that as a a kind of a cut off for this
00:47:48
individual on when he decides that he's got to get rid of this problem that he has burdened himself with
00:47:57
uhuh so I I I've always really felt that if you could find the connection on how
00:48:03
he would have had her information or known something about her you could finally trace him because as I as I was
00:48:10
I started down the road and I I started down the road and I I sidetracked myself and he swallowed a
00:48:16
bug yeah what do I do what do I do um the thing is 30 years later the composite sketches have not worked we
00:48:25
had a lot of tips of people calling in and saying okay I know somebody that looks like this guy or I know some
00:48:30
weirdo that looks like this guy the items that were not found with her the day that she was found in the field have
00:48:39
not solved this crime the blanket the curtain here we are 3 years later have not solved this crime if somebody
00:48:48
somewhere can figure out how this individual knew her but she did not know him that might be the first big lead we
00:48:56
could get in in many many years the sad thing about our production our little garage production here today
00:49:04
Captain is there is so much to cover with Amy's case yeah like like yelling at you we didn't even get to any
00:49:13
suspects we got this could have been like a four parter six parter uh but first of all I want to tell people we we
00:49:22
did well you did an interview it's it's our one of our best episodes I'm not actually on the episode but uh you did
00:49:29
an interview in a discussion with James rener on the Amy mivic case that was done in March 22nd of 2016 that's
00:49:38
episode 22 you can find that on the Stitcher app for free just download the Stitcher app and then on the left hand
00:49:45
side you can scroll down the the years so you want to go to 2016 and he'll talk about his
00:49:52
suspects but I mean he names I'm going off a memory here but but he names what three potential I think you told him to
00:49:59
give his top three which were not his top three in in the book he wrote about Amy right and so there like I said
00:50:07
there's another two episodes of going through the suspects and and we will get to that at some point I mean we're not
00:50:13
going to be able because we're at crime conon we're not going to be able to get to that next week but maybe in the next
00:50:17
month or so we can revisit well in in that episode rener says that Dean rle is one of those three
00:50:24
Suspects when I ask him for three and anybody that's seen the lake eie murders documentary knows that that Dean R lead
00:50:33
kind of uh takes up a decent portion of that documentary yeah it Dean rle is certainly an interesting
00:50:44
suspect um but in regards to suspects a bit of an issue I had with trying to present suspects here
00:50:53
today is early on in this investigation we have the then police chief of Bay Village say that this is before the
00:51:03
bodies even found he says we have about 20 suspects that look good that that look good enough that they warranted
00:51:10
further looking into and they were in the process of looking into to those individuals when Robert K westler came
00:51:18
up to the Cleveland area and offered his expertise and helped put together that profile that we read today he says that
00:51:26
of the suspects that the police had at that time now this is in January of 1990 he says four or five of them look
00:51:35
good they they look good for our profile that we put together so 20 per the Bay Village Police Chief four or five from
00:51:46
Robert K wrestler now I'm a huge fan of Robert wrestlers I'm a huge fan of all of his books in this book it's a bit
00:51:54
disappointing because he does only there's only about five or six pages that are dedicated to Amy's
00:52:01
case where I find the disappointment is he really honed in on one suspect in particular named Billy strunak yeah and
00:52:12
later Billy strunck commits suicide so Billy's not here to this day to defend himself or to uh tell us that he's
00:52:21
guilty of something for for all the good you do to True Crime authors promoting books
00:52:30
you sure are are very opinionated about their work well I'm I'm uh I'm a Critic of not just the writing but I'm a Critic
00:52:41
of some of the cases look we're I'm not just a Critic of the writing well the handling of some of the cases and I
00:52:48
can't wait till your book comes out and I'm I'm not an expert and I'm dumber than most but here's here's where I'm
00:52:56
disappointed is when when he finishes with Amy's case in his book he basically throws this out there and
00:53:04
says I believe that Billy strunak killed Amy mahalic and it will never be solved
00:53:10
because he committed suicide he's dead there's never been any similar crimes in that area ever since and that's he he
00:53:17
sells it like it's proof enough for him which is fine and good and again I'm a big fan of wrestlers big fan of his work
00:53:26
big fan of his books but two things that I wish would have happened and you're a
00:53:30
real kiss ass too one I I don't think he should have put his stamp on that Mark so much and
00:53:38
two mind you this profile was conducted in January of 1990 it was conducted before her body was found I would ask
00:53:48
wrestler if he were sitting here in the garage would you have added or adapted your profile based off of information
00:53:57
that was learned from the crime scene from the dump site and from her body and autopsy would you have amended your
00:54:05
profile and if if he says yes there's chances now that Billy strunak doesn't fit so well into that profile and we all
00:54:12
know that profiles don't necessarily solve crimes they simply are a tool that some used to try to uh kind of shrink
00:54:22
down the suspect pool so to speak so that you know know who you should be spotlighting rather than others so
00:54:28
there's a lot of homework to do one listen to our episode Amy mahalic episode number 22 and then watch the
00:54:37
lake Yi murders that's a fascinating docu docu series that that was two parts right uh three three parts yeah because
00:54:47
but don't watch the first one CU you're not in the first one and that's why you do watch the first one it's the best of
00:54:54
the three the best part was I was watching and I I watched it part one and I went well he
00:55:01
got cut out he got cut out and well then then episode two comes in and then your
00:55:07
you know your your ugly face hits the screen I mean scared the I literally [ __ ] my pants and then you were in it a
00:55:16
lot in the second one and in the third one but it it it was put together very well um and it kept my attention the
00:55:23
whole time so not not only are you encouraging everyone to watch the Lake Erie murders you're encouraging them to
00:55:30
have a clean pair of drawers close by or start off with dirty drawers you know why why dirty more clean drawers well we
00:55:39
I tell we joke but I um this is this has been a frustrating week for me I thought
00:55:46
revisiting Amy's case would be something that I would look forward to because I am so passionate about this case but it
00:55:54
all it did for me was kind of stir up monsters and questions and anger that I've had about this case over the years
00:56:01
for the last week this is a case that we will revisit again at some point as we said we didn't get to suspects yet and
00:56:10
there are so many to talk about I almost like in this case people don't understand how that just the the sheer
00:56:17
size of this case because I liken it to like Deli West Memphis 3 even Jack the Ripper to the point where you get
00:56:27
involved in this thing and unfortunately you realize that there between you know
00:56:34
armchair chair sleuth and web sleuths and all the people out there that have looked into this case and provided some
00:56:41
insight or theories and thoughts when you really get in here you startop start figuring out there are so many suspects
00:56:49
to explore and it's just the sheer size of this thing and it doesn't help that it's
00:56:55
been almost 30 years with no [Music] answers and if you're looking for more garage True Crime garage get the
00:57:12
Stitcher app it's free we have our old episodes on there and our other great show that everybody loves off the record
00:57:19
on Stitcher premium check that out and we are going to fire up the old flying garage ship and head on down to New
00:57:26
Orleans so everybody that's going to Crime con this year we are looking forward to seeing each and every one of
00:57:32
you there safe travels friends all right until next week be good be kind and don't
00:57:39
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