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foreign [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that just like the other members of NSYNC he was
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not invited to the halftime performance either he is the captain he Joey Fatone me
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it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] today we are drinking war elephant by the fine fine people over at Rushing
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Duck Brewing Company garage grade three and three quarter bottle caps out of five I got to try this for the first
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time this weekend and it made my weekend Great War elephant is a double IPA and as one might expect from the powerful
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name it is a powerful beer with big flavor and a high ABV of 8.7 percent so enjoy responsibly my friends and this
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powerful Brew was brought to us by this powerful garage crew first up a big shout out to Maddie and Misty a couple
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of co-workers listening from Watertown South Dakota big shout out to Kayla from Brooklyn Ohio and I want to give a big
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thank you and a cheers mates to Steve and Alyssa and Pinkney Michigan and the big we like your jib to Elizabeth in
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Superior Colorado and sending a long distance cheers to Linda all the way in King Lake Australia and last but not
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least a garage grouping here we have Alina Michael and also their friend Mary Davis at Bennington College cheers mates
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and thanks for everybody for filling up the fridge this week if you want to help
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us out with next week's Beer Run go to truecrime garage.com and click on the Donate button I've been to that college
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got wasted we would also like to give one more shout out this is to someone that some of you are aware has
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contributed and helped this show behind the scenes it's the garage's dear friend
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the skipper we would like to congratulate him he has been named The District vice president for Ohio police
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and firefighter retirees so congratulations to the skipper our resident in the garage detective can you
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have one more shout out go for it a big shout out a big we like your jib to Ren and cuff for sending me the fuzz face
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the 70s fuzz pedal check out renancuff.com today they make amazing guitar and bass effects pedals and
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follow True Crime Garage on Instagram and untappd and if you want case updates and if you want to put in your thoughts
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and your opinions check out our blog at truecrime garage.com captain that is enough of the business everybody gather
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round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime foreign [Music] [Music]
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Monday August 7th 1972. sixteen-year-old Jeanette De Palma told her mother she was going to go to her
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friend's house to spend the afternoon the friend lived about eight miles away Jeanette did not yet have her driver's
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license her mother offered to drive her but it was nice that day Jeanette insisted on
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walking she left her home just shortly after 1 pm that day the plan a three-mile solo hike to the
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train station and then the train would drop her nearby her friend's home while Jeanette was seen walking that day
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she never arrived at her friend's house nor did she call it's believed that she never even made
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it to the train station he simply disappeared [Music] on September 19th after Jeanette had been missing for six
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weeks and one day the discovery of a rotting human forearm LED police and investigators to her body
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discovered in the woods badly decayed and resting on a cliff known as the devil's teeth
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the coroner could find no signs of bullet or stab wounds after examining the body he could
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provide the police and the De Palma family with no cause of death for Jeanette and the police could offer no
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explanation as to why her body would be found in that location foreign drugs are strangulation
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[Music] her death was being treated as a homicide mainly because of where the body had been found
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when the community needed answers the rumor mill began to generate stories about Satanism and witchcraft
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[Music] this only fueled more gossip how did this innocent teenage girl die and if it was in fact murder who had
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killed her and who knew about this foreign was she killed by a stranger that saw
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her walking that day or was it a friend or maybe a boy she knew or was it the mafia or some kind of
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police cover-up this is a continued story of the bizarre death of sixteen-year-old Jeanette De
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Palma [Music] as everyone may remember from last week after they found Jeanette's body the
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police were quick to identify her however they could not offer anything conclusive as to how she had died or
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what the cause of death was pretty obvious that the investigator suspected drugs early on statements from
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the investigators state that when they located the body remember her pocketbook was found nearby obviously you checked
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the pockets of her pants and the pocketbook looking for identification maybe a driver's license school ID or
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even a library card to tell you who this body May belong to but the investigators
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were also checking and looking for drugs on her person or in that pocketbook or even evidence of possible drug use
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they suspected either a suicide or possible accidental overdose from drugs they found no drugs and no evidence of
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drug use either they also didn't locate any forms of identification on her putting a name to the body came later by
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the way of her dentist comparing X-rays and her dental history more importantly they would test the
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body for drugs these tests provided no answers only more questions as there were no trace of drugs found in the body
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they did however find a high level of lead came back in these tests so possible lead poisoning but I I don't
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think that would explain why her body was found in the woods on top of a cliff also the amount of lead detected from
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these tests shows a level that while it is quite High it is not a level that is high enough to where you would commonly
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see death occur so what does this all mean well it certainly clears up one or two
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of the what seems to be very likely possibilities when you look at this case from afar
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that being she didn't use drugs to kill herself right and she didn't overdose on
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anything yeah some party correct so that might put to an end the possibility of her showing up at that at
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the blattus house dying from something you know drinking too much or doing drugs and something happening to her
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so it couldn't have been an overdose now while we cannot fully determine if she was or not at the blattus home that day
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this kind of clears that up in my opinion well it wouldn't be uncommon to find a body that's been on the ground
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that is a Dumping Ground for construction to have traces of lead because if they're dumping construction
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items they're dumping paint which would have lead in it in 1972. yeah and you bring up a very good point because we
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have to keep in mind that her body had been resting there for weeks before she was found and remember we said that her
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body had sunk into the ground to the point that later a girl that knew her and had visited the site just days after
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they removed Jeanette's body from the devil's teeth right she's there she's saying that she could see she could
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still see the outline or the impression that the body had made in the ground and Jeanette's body was badly decayed so
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bad to the point that some have said portions of her body and the clothing had become one
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could portions of the body and the ground have done the same or did elements hiding in or making up the
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ground below her seep into the body through osmosis or you know leaving high traces of lead later found in the body
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through osmosis here's the thing though that I don't think that they did Captain
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and and you're you're exactly right I I wonder did they take soil samples of the
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area it doesn't appear that they did we can't find any record of that right um but it's a it's a Dumping Ground for
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construction and and if you ask the people that are dumping stuff what did you dump and they said well we use this
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paint which has lead in it and we dumped it into the soil and then this body is found inches within the soil what is
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what is it going to absorb that paint and what is that paint going to have in it lead so it's pretty easy I think to
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explain yeah yeah I think they could have gone the extra mile and actually went back to the scene and maybe take
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taken a soil sample yeah couldn't have hurt the investigation in any direction at all but let's let's move you on
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because I think those are all reasonable explanations why these high traces of lead were found in her body
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I want to move on to a possible suspect here captain and this takes place about a month or so after Jeanette's body was
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found now please keep in mind by this time two things had already occurred in this case yeah the rumor mill was
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turning out witchcraft stories and well in the second thing Captain is that the stories coming out in the newspaper were
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starting to taper off so less information either coming out or being presented however you choose to look at
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it this is when a young dude this is 21 year old Terry Raquel he goes to the police department and he tells them
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there is something they should know about where Jeanette's body was found he tells them that where she was found is
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right by where someone lives Terry told the detective about a homeless man right
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that made part of the woods that is fairly close to where the body was found well this this homeless man he he made
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it his home you know he was staying there technically he wasn't homeless right yeah yeah I guess that's a
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contradiction right this patch of woods is is the home to this homeless man what's this guy's name you know what
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Captain you mentioned something that you said well he's not really homeless that
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makes me think of an old uh George Carlin bit who who I miss dearly when he was good friends yeah all very good
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friends we used to go picnicking in the park and uh he said that uh George Carlin said that there are no such thing
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as homeless people because home is a state of mind what the what they are is houseless right so I in good memory of
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my good picnicking friend George Carlin I will refer to this guy as houseless right so this young man tells the police
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that some of the locals refer to this houseless man as red that he has a like a shanty or a lean
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too or something that he's he's fabricated in the woods out here and he says that the man is called red because
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of his long red hair and beard he's got a wild beard not uh kind of a hippie yeah looking guy yeah there you go and
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this guy does work though he works um I don't know how much but according to the
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book that we've referenced a few times the death at the devil's teeth he works several days a week at a local golf
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course you know caddy Jacques Looper you know well so yeah so he's a caddy and he's
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working there for cash tips you know sometimes you can make pretty good money doing that if the course is busy that
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day yeah or if you're not caddying for the Dalai Lama himself this guy red seemed to be pretty resourceful as well
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you know we had said and mentioned that he had fashioned himself some type of dwelling there in the woods well he
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would sleep and he would also cook meals out there and I don't think anyone really reported anything on this guy
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other than that he lived in the woods and he caddied at the golf course in town he's referenced in several different
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accounts of the investigation into Jeanette's murder but it looks like other than the caddy thing nothing else
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is really known of this guy now the suspicion Falls because of the proximity from his dwelling and where the body was
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found to further the suspicion it sounds like this guy red like he may have took
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off and left yeah which is a tricky thing because when I think of houseless people I typically jump to the thought
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and conclusion that they're nomadic you know moves around based off of need or or you know right but I but I guess you
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know each is their own so maybe that doesn't work with everybody but well well let's get into this point right
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because this is a big point of speculation yeah as we have this guy that's living in the woods that's where
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she's found a lot of people think that maybe she was traveling or something and that she went into these Woods for
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whatever reason and then he attacked her there like she is stumbled upon him at night right yeah there's a few different
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theories regarding that but one thing I wanna one thing I want to clear up right
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here before we get into this too much Captain is okay so I have some experience with this and and I'm sure
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lots of people out there do as what do as well but back when I was doing Property Management there was plenty of
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times that I would have to chase off a guy from time to time that was clearly just squatting in a place that he found
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for a night or two and there's a there's a big difference here this everything that we hear from the police regarding
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this red guy he seems to have been living there it wasn't like he just found a place that he liked and he was
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going to stay for a few nights or a couple weeks this seemed to be a setup that he had arranged and he was planning
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to stay there for quite some time the rumor being is that he would show up in town stay at this place that he had set
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up in the woods and he would stay there through the course of the golf season and then he would kind of disappear
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during the colder months and then he would pop up again and he would stay in the same place yeah and he did this for
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multiple years so before we get into this I just want to clear up that you know people are going to suggest well
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maybe he was just staying there for a couple nights that's not the case here the thing is is how suspicious is it
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that this guy took off because you gotta Wonder did he take off the there are several rumors that either a
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he took off shortly after Jeannette was murdered this would be in August of 72. B he took off shortly after her body was
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found which would be in September of 72. now you have the maybe another possibility that it was shortly after
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her body was found but once this report was given to the police this is in October of 72. they went out there in
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the woods looking for red they found all of his stuff if well we don't know if it's all of his stuff but they found
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some of his things there and they saw what they suggested was evidence that he might have left in a hurry like that
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there was food that he had prepared and just kind of left it there that he didn't come back and collect any of
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these items it seems to me like he might I don't know his setup that's hard that's hard to gauge here because if
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he's the kind of guy that he's just going to leave these items behind and whatever happens to be left over when he
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gets back there the following year he makes use of well what makes the most sense is let's go to the golf course and
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let's say okay let's try to figure out when's the last time that red worked the problem with this though was that
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the caddies are quote unquote subcontractors so they don't have like a technical work schedule but I think if
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you interview the members of the golf course you could get a better timeline because nobody really knows the schedule
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and it wouldn't be that crazy to think somebody living a nomadic life I mean he comes into town multiple times
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throughout multiple years and then he goes off to work somewhere else you don't know if he left a week before
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or two weeks before right so they need to they should have you know asked the members of the golf course to try to get
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a smaller timeline yeah and what they did was they did go to the golf course and like you said he's a subcontractor
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or whatever you want to refer to it as it the golf course didn't know his real name either they just referred to him as
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red as well he didn't he didn't work work for the golf course so the way that I understand it to be is back then that
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these guys would just kind of show up randomly from time to time and they would sit
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there and wait for a golfer to come up and say hey I need a caddy yeah and then they would carry their bag and follow
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along and get tipped at the end of the at the end of the round so he didn't you know he didn't in the sense work for the
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golf course and I think you're right that would have been an interesting Avenue to take is to talk to the actual
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golfers because you know how this thing works Captain some of these people when they know nothing when they when they
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show up when these were golfers that are there time and time again they may ask for him by name right right you know
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somebody may know his schedule or at least the last time they saw him or he caddied for them well the other
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speculation here is that you know they find they find her body in the woods right and then this guy hits the he hits
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the road maybe it was just that they found a body in the woods and that scared the the
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crap out of him yeah if I'm living in the woods right hmm down by the river um and they find a body you think I'm
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going to stay there I have standards of where I live when I'm living in the woods I have standards and I can't be
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living in woods that they found a body in I love that because I think you and I share the same feeling on this where you
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have the rumor that this guy left after having killed her like left in August after having killed her
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she's not found until September you and I kind of lean towards the possibility that maybe he was living there until
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closer to the time that they had found her or maybe even afterwards well right but they did track this guy down yeah
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yeah they did and this is this is what's weird I don't know the particulars of how they tracked him down but they did
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identify him and they did eventually speak with him so supposedly this guy red must have
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checked out because either they have nothing on him which could just be the case or either through questioning or
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some other technique they let him go after having cleared him several online reports of this case will say that the
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guy was cleared personally I question that yeah but this the rumor mill is that red came from money that when they
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went to uh look into this guy as a suspect they ran into a situation where he came from a lot of money
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filthy stinking rich and that is the reason why we have thoughts of there being a cover-up the he was going to
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lawyer up and they decided they couldn't fight the good fight and defeat this guy in trial yeah or the
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people that he um his family was so powerful that they stopped the investigation anyways and that's just a
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rumor right and but I would like to I would really like to explore why they cleared the guy because I've seen online
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reports stating that he was cleared not that not that we just couldn't charge him with anything that oh we checked
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into him and he checks out yeah but again this is a a weird time in history 72 so the late 60s 70s you have a lot of
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people living in Vans and traveling across the country and just you know taking some time off to discover
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themselves and this guy could have came for money and said you know I'm just gonna live off the land and I'm gonna
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caddy during the day and and he could have went to visit some family or friends during this time where she went
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missing because like there's a six week Gap right right well that's what I'm getting at though with if okay so if he
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supplies you with an alibi the trouble that you run into here is I'm guessing that if you cannot
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determine the cause of death then determining the approximate time of death is way out of the question right
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so unless in some type of interview he can sit down and say hey I was in Europe with Bill Todd Tammy and Ethel
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backpacking through the hillside from August 3rd to the 30th right you know I I would question really any kind of
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Alibi that you get from anybody on this uh to me The Alibi would be kind of a non-factor here right like you said I
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mean the frustration with this case is okay this guy that seems like a plausible suspect
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what is his Alibi my other thought would be is you know back then this is this is
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1972. and this this would be a just a total guess I've never seen any evidence of this
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but my thought would be think about 1972 they put a lot of faith in the old lie detector test back then a lot of faith
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in the polygraph test back then and if they really like this guy or if they really wanted to try to clear him or
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really hone in on him they're going to try to get him to give a polygraph test especially if he's cooperating during
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the the questioning portion right and so maybe he took that test and passed it passed with flying colors and they're
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like all right we're all done with you now one thing that uh and you referenced this last week I believe you referenced
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The West Memphis Three last week when we were talking about this Devil's teeth case and it kind of made me remember
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something uh regarding John Douglas uh from the FBI's behavior science unit now one thing that he said and he said this
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in several profiles that he's given not all of them this is not something that that runs across the board but he gives
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this in several profiles and he even gives it when he gives the criminal profile of who he think may have
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perpetrated The West Memphis Three case okay and he states that in a lot of these cases
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that somebody but will pass this guy will pass the lie detector test you could bring him in you could hook him up
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to the polygraph he still killed her but he will pass the test right I wonder I wonder if they use that to clear him and
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hearing that from John Douglas makes you suspect I mean it's a scary thought to think of how many people throughout the
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years they may have used the polygraph test to clear them and then it turns out they they only passed the polygraph
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because not only are they a murderer but they're truly truly a psychopath [Music]
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foreign [Music] cheers Captain I probably sound more annoying than normal because I'm a little under
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the weather Under and Over the weather at the same time well I went um on my boat uh I'm a big giant boat and uh
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we were attacked by Pirates and I've been sick ever since bird flu so I want to bring up something here
00:26:16
Captain because there's something strange going on and we we need to point out that Jeanette De Palma's murder and
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her case is not really the only one of the time that goes unsolved we have to fast forward to 1974 where we
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have girls getting killed at what I've made in my notes here as an alarming rate in New Jersey in 1974. I want to
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bring up something and this is mainly taken from the New York Times and we've summarized the article but the uh the
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article's headline is rights held for two girls latest of six slain and this is from uh December 30th 1974.
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they had a Catholic mass celebrating the lives of two teenage girls two teenage girls that were murdered hundreds of
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people attended the Wake while this is going on there were detectives from three different counties meeting all New
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Jersey counties meeting and comparing notes on Unsolved killings of six teenage girls now the church service was
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for Joanne delardo 15 years old and Doreen carlucci who is 14 years old they were last seen walking together on
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December 13th they first went to a recreation center they left there and going to a nearby convenience store and
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after leaving the store they disappeared into the night roughly two weeks later their bodies were discovered in a wooded
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area in Manalapan Township New Jersey an examination revealed that both had been badly beaten and they died as a
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result of strangulation both bodies were found partially nude and one of the girls still had a length of electric
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cord wrapped around her neck father Strano oversaw the services for the girls and he directed most of his
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sermon at the classmates of the Dead girls telling them learn to live life as it is do not expect everything to be
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joyful happy or pleasurable don't look for constant climaxes constant highs turn away from drugs grass and booze so
00:28:31
I think Captain we may have to do with them being murdered exactly I think that you and I might have been right about
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something here you know what why do we see the priests using the sermon at the service of the murdered girls as a
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teaching moment for the other kids because he's a [ __ ] and I think regarding Jeanette De Palma that is how
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some of these rumors about her behavior and about her character came about if you start talking to kids at the
00:29:02
services saying stay away from drugs grass and booze some of those kids start thinking well these two girls must have
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been doing some or all of those things and that behavior may have led to their demise and isn't that some form of
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victim blaming I think so it's a 14 year old girl you're gonna blame her you know she's some drug addict it's
00:29:27
ridiculous and even though we can't put together a cause of death for Jeanette there's good reason to suspect that she
00:29:34
had nothing she was doing is what led to her her death we can't we can't find anything any big
00:29:41
red flags anything standing out saying oh this is this is some bad stuff that she was doing or some bad people she was
00:29:48
hanging out with we can't find any of that yeah it's most likely her trying to find a ride is what caused her death so
00:29:56
who are these other girls that that they are mentioning in this article part of the six girls that were killed in 1974.
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well here's two more of them and in separate incidents uh first one in January of 74 and then in February of 74
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we have Suzanne Garden who was just 14 years old and Cynthia Leslie 18 years of age both were out uh walking after Susan
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was out walking after leaving her home and then Cynthia who was out running errands both were found dead just days
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after they were last seen both strangled both partially clothed and the bodies left in wooded areas now neither of
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these girls had been sexually assaulted this happened over in Dover Township now
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I want to take us to Friday August 9th 1974 and let's move to a place called North Bergen this again in New Jersey so
00:30:52
now we are about 20 miles Northeast of Springfield where Jeanette was from and just actually almost two years
00:31:00
almost two years exactly from the day that Jeanette went missing we have Marianne Pryor along with her friend
00:31:07
Lorraine Marie Kelly Marion Pryor is 17 years old and Lorraine Marie Kelly is she's actually just days away from
00:31:16
turning 17 years old they were planning to go to the mall walking to the mall according to Pryor's family
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this was around four in the afternoon when they left saying that they would be back a little after 5 PM but they they
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don't return right Marianne's mother calls the police an attempt to report that her daughter is missing well
00:31:38
Captain you can probably guess what happens here right so her mother and you know they're they're told she's not
00:31:45
missing until it's been 24 hours we can't take a report such [ __ ] so her mother and older sister go out looking
00:31:52
for her and unfortunately they find nothing once the mother is finally able to or shall we say aloud to report her
00:32:00
daughter missing the police insists that she is a runaway and therefore she is labeled as such on the report that they
00:32:07
take to your job yeah they did do some looking for her uh we have to be fair and state that one person they spoke
00:32:18
with among others was Lorraine's boyfriend this is uh Ricky Molinaro now Ricky fills the police in on some of the
00:32:26
details of that evening he says that he had picked the girls up and drove them for a portion of their trip I'm guessing
00:32:33
toward their destination but dropping them off along the way it sounds like the two teenage girls had a few stops to
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make on their walk before returning home right Ricky tells the police that the plan was that he was going to pick them
00:32:48
up at a predetermined location at approximately 9 pm that night Ricky goes to the pickup point and his
00:32:56
girlfriend Lorraine and her friend Mary Ann they never show up five days later on August 14 1974 and
00:33:05
about 20 miles away the two girls bodies were found on a hill in Montvale New Jersey
00:33:12
the two girls were naked and lying next to each other uh and this is an account mainly taken from Pix 11 in New York
00:33:21
and checked with the New York Times it's referred to as a hill but it's more like
00:33:26
this there's there's a parking lot and then there's some Woods near the parking lot this is pretty much a small stretch
00:33:34
of land between the parking lot and the woods that's where the bodies were found so
00:33:39
what I picture is someone pulling up pulling into the lot and a truck or a car pulling up and to a
00:33:48
little land strip there and unloading these bodies and either carrying them or more likely dragging them one at a time
00:33:55
from the vehicle and then laying or placing them between the lot in the woods just to give you a quick idea of
00:34:03
what we are looking at the Pix 11 headline one of the articles mentioned is says torture rape and
00:34:12
murder of two North Bergen teens still a mystery now the girls like Jeanette were
00:34:18
found face down and other than just a couple pieces of jewelry there was nothing on these girls and both were in
00:34:26
bad shape we we see signs of taunting and torture here bruising to the face and burn marks on them now these these
00:34:34
would be small burn marks so possibly cigarette Burns both had been strangled and due to
00:34:41
ligature marks on the wrists and ankles some have suggested that they may have been hogtied
00:34:47
this is quite possible but I want to throw this in there as a thought rather than hogtied and I only mentioned this
00:34:55
due to the time of death offered up later by the medical examiner so keep in mind the girls were missing for about
00:35:03
five days well the newspaper accounts says says five days they technically went missing in the evening right and
00:35:11
they're not found until later they're not found into a morning time so it's more like five and a half days if you
00:35:18
want to be technical about it right well the medical examiner comes back with that they had been killed between
00:35:26
24 and maybe as long as 48 hours before they were found of these windows they give yeah they
00:35:35
were they were killed within an hour to four days well it can get very difficult
00:35:41
to determine it's not it's not like on TV where they they stick a little probe in somebody and they're like this person
00:35:47
was killed at 3 15. um but it doesn't necessarily mean that they were laying there the entire time
00:35:55
but they were just dead for 24 to 48 hours before being placed there so now we have we have a window right a rather
00:36:04
big window of 60 to maybe over 80 hours of missing time time that the girls would have been alive but missing
00:36:12
probably held somewhere so I offer up that maybe rather than hogtied wrist to ankles I suspect tied to something maybe
00:36:22
more likely the ligature marks tied before they were killed yeah that they were held hostage somewhere these two
00:36:30
deaths are very different in the sense that we see signs of torture and both were assaulted sexually well with
00:36:37
Jeanette's death I mean we still don't have a cause of death and that's going to be the big problem so are these
00:36:42
connected I mean I think one you have uh women of the same roughly the same age so that connects them also
00:36:52
their you know uh traveling by foot so that connects them you know are these connected I I don't know if there's any
00:37:01
way of us knowing because we don't have you know to me it would be these would be in a line and that maybe Jeanette was
00:37:08
one of the first victims yeah you bring up something good there because you're right we see if if if she is in a series
00:37:18
of murders uh that we just discussed here you would see an escalation going on because and it's tough with
00:37:25
Jeanette's case because she was badly decomposed we don't know what evidence we would be missing because of the time
00:37:31
that her body sat there right but in these and these two women's cases we have you know the situation where
00:37:38
they're they're tortured the the rape they're beat in jeannette's case it could be as
00:37:45
simple as this was one of the first attacks he had on somebody and he strangled her but he didn't strangle
00:37:51
enough to break her hyoid bone right but I do want to point out that there is a medical examiner that is quoted in that
00:38:00
article regarding these six murder victims that are separate from Jeanette's case and this medical
00:38:06
examiner in his opinion is quoted as saying that the the killings are dissimilar but the prosecutor and the
00:38:13
investigators at the time they wanted to wait to make a conclusion until they had
00:38:17
the opportunity to sit down together and compare everything that they had now they never come out at any point and say
00:38:24
that these are absolutely connected they're just stating to the media that we are sitting down and working on these
00:38:31
together because we have an alarming situation we have girls that are walking down the street they're going missing
00:38:37
and then they're later turning up dead now I want to bring up somebody that uh most of us are probably not familiar
00:38:45
with and his name is Robert zarinski now I'd be surprised if many of our New Jersey residents even know who this guy
00:38:54
is this guy is a real problem okay uh and look as as you can see in the early 70s a few counties in New Jersey had a
00:39:04
real problem now this guy zarinsky he might not have been the single source of all of their problems but I'll sum up
00:39:11
what we know about him and I'll let you be the judge so Robert zarinski was born
00:39:17
in 1940 and at the ripe age of 18 it's believed that he had killed for the first time this is in 1958.
00:39:26
they think that he killed a cop and the story goes like this there's uh officer Charles bernarsky
00:39:34
so this officer responds to a burglary that's in progress at the Miller Pontiac car dealership in Rahway New Jersey the
00:39:44
officer when he arrives and he startles these two guys he's fired at and he returns fire
00:39:52
now the officer was shot and killed at the scene fingerprints were left and lifted from the crime scene
00:40:00
hang on to your horses Captain because this is strange 41 years later they identified the fingerprints and
00:40:07
matched them to a man by the name of Theodore schiffner now turns out this Schiffer was at the
00:40:15
Pontiac dealership that night way back in 1958 he was there with his cousin Robert zarinski
00:40:22
and when the officer caught them there they shot at the officer the officer managed to actually shoot both of these
00:40:29
men that night good for him and yet they find a way to get away in 2001 zarinsky's sister testified at court
00:40:38
that her and her mother had removed bullets from both Robert zarinsky and his cousin that night
00:40:45
the boys telling them that night that they had shot at a cop zorinsky was tried for this like we said
00:40:53
in 2001 but it was not successful he was acquitted of the charges how okay so we have his fingerprints
00:41:03
well they have his cousin's fingerprints his fingerprints were actually found and
00:41:09
they they tie him there because of what his sister States about removing the bullets from the two of them and the two
00:41:15
telling the story hey we shot at a cop tonight right but shouldn't one piece of the evidence is let's just see if he has
00:41:22
a bullet wound let's just find out if he's ever been shot before yeah I don't know if they
00:41:28
took that Avenue I would guess that they right but then if you have been shot before and you claim that your sister
00:41:35
didn't take it out of you can we see the doctor's report from which hospital you
00:41:40
went to take this bullet out of you you know it's you should have been the prosecutor and I'll tell you why the
00:41:46
reason why they picked the part that that case and they couldn't sentence this guy was because they discredited
00:41:53
the sister they you know they basically tore her apart and her life apart and stated you know you can't trust This
00:41:59
Woman's uh story she's a sleazy she's a sleazy woman she's easy you can't believe a word she says but you bring up
00:42:07
some some good things so now this dude zorinsky of course you can see that he's going to be a career criminal
00:42:15
you know he and he did you know he had things like robbery arson a lot of that sort of thing in his background and on
00:42:21
his record but in 1965 it's believed that he started killing women and girls but this didn't catch up
00:42:30
to him until 1975. so is it a coincidence that just one year after these six female victims
00:42:38
were killed that he's finally locked up and they stopped on the killing stub he was given a life sentence for the 1969
00:42:48
murder of Rosemary oh man I'm gonna butcher this last go for it Colin colandrillo
00:42:59
Nice Shot nice nice try buddy uh unfortunately I apologize to her and her family she was only 17 years old she was
00:43:07
from Atlantic Highlands New Jersey um but it's not just that simple because zorinsky was indicted for the
00:43:15
1968 murder of Jane Durer just 13 years old but this wasn't until 2008. now he ends up dying in prison before
00:43:28
the trial could start and then even crazier after his death this didn't take place until 2016. DNA evidence connected
00:43:38
him to the 1965 murder of Mara klinsky who was 18 years old he was also a prime suspect and four
00:43:47
other murders of young women and teenage girls from the years 1969 to 1974 and this includes the murders of two that we
00:43:56
discussed here this Doreen carlucci and and Joanne delardo these were the two that were walking together to the mall
00:44:04
right it looks to me Captain like if I had to pick somebody just based off of previous
00:44:11
crimes other activity that we know they were up to and being in the area at the time I think that he probably killed
00:44:18
these two girls I'm not convinced that he killed the other four I certainly don't I certainly don't
00:44:25
really think that he killed Jeanette De Palma well who knows I mean he's he's a serial killer but I right you
00:44:33
know it's not out of the realm of possibility right and he certainly belongs on the suspect list certainly
00:44:38
for those that include a serial killer Theory or an unknown serial killer Theory uh when discussing Jeanette's
00:44:45
death is definitely also on the list of pieces of [ __ ] daddy is Captain I you know I suspect it had Robert killed
00:44:53
Jeanette that there would have been signs of the cause of death there would have been some marks some indication
00:45:00
that she might have been tortured before being killed and I mean I I know she was
00:45:05
badly decayed but I think it would have been an obvious homicide because Robert zarinski I mean he left the item he
00:45:14
strangled girls with at the dump scenes and even on their bodies yeah he was a real genius
00:45:22
um that's why I question the autopsy a lot because I know that she was badly decomposed but I just go back to the
00:45:30
fact that um maybe this person didn't have enough experience maybe this person just didn't
00:45:35
do their job that weekend but it just seems like those are the things that were missing that could really help this
00:45:41
case and I think you may have hit the nail on the head there Captain I think I mean it smells a little farmy yeah well
00:45:48
but you're talking about I think you're right that the person may not have had the right experience
00:45:54
and the reason why that comes to mind is because the six weeks between the time that she went missing and then the body
00:46:01
being found I think that a lot was left uh from there a lot was lost uh over that portion of time and that somebody
00:46:10
with lesser experience didn't know what to look for or didn't know who to go to to ask the appropriate questions and I
00:46:18
don't have the person's name here in front of me uh the the acting coroner or medical examiner or whatever you want to
00:46:25
call them at the time what I do know is that the person was a and appointed uh it was similar to the Fami Malek
00:46:35
situation where it was somebody that was appointed uh the position it wasn't a position that they applied for and sat
00:46:41
in front of medical boards and earned the position it was an appointed position it was a practicing physician
00:46:47
uh the person was a doctor uh that that held that position but not a trained from what I could find not a trained
00:46:55
pathologist so you you might be onto something there we we could be missing the cause of death
00:47:02
simply because this person giving the examination may not have had the proper amount of experience now I do want to
00:47:11
kind of move towards a high note uh and maybe I should be bigger than this but I'm I'm not so I'm happy to report that
00:47:20
the the guy that we were just talking about Robert zarinski is under dirt like we had said he had passed away he's
00:47:27
under dirt where he belongs he died late in 2008 in prison he had pulmonary fibrosis this is a disease that makes it
00:47:36
increasingly difficult to breathe so like I said I'm not bigger I wish I was bigger than this but I'm not I hope it
00:47:43
was hell for him at the end this is a guy that he's killing people by strangulation right yeah so I mean the
00:47:50
universe you know Karma sometimes is a [ __ ] that chokes you really slowly for a long time well and maybe fitting in a
00:47:58
way that that was how he passed away but uh you know we bring him up because he's
00:48:04
a he's a lesser known likely serial killer and there is that theory of an unknown serial killer having worked the
00:48:12
area maybe Jeanette's part of that series maybe she was not a victim in that series uh one thing that I would
00:48:19
encourage people to do is I think that zarinsky could be a likely suspect for a victim that's named Joan Kramer and now
00:48:29
she's not somebody that we've discussed here and some people have have been led to believe or some people
00:48:36
believe that there's a possibility that Joan Kramer's death is in fact connected to jeanettes in some
00:48:43
way right and we've not discussed that death here uh but I would encourage people to check that out in the book
00:48:50
that we keep bringing up the death on the devil's teeth hopefully we get a talk with Jesse tomorrow yes and the
00:48:56
thing here is though Captain I do want to kind of wrap a few things up you know as we've gone through all these
00:49:01
different theories and and all the thoughts and rumors that were out there regarding Jeanette De Palma and what
00:49:07
could have happened to her you know we've talked we we spent the last half hour talking about this
00:49:13
possible unknown serial killer idea we talked about what happened to to the man that I brought up Robert zarinski uh
00:49:22
what we think what knows what we failed to mention here is some of the other uh theories that we've discussed and one
00:49:29
of those being that one of the blattus brothers had disposed of Jeanette's body that something happened to her at that
00:49:37
at that so-called party that night and one of the blattest brother brothers left her there in the woods right right
00:49:44
now I do want to clear up one thing we kind of we kind of put the kibosh on that because we're standing you know
00:49:50
there were no drugs found in her system right right and second of all so why would you dump a body that somebody OD'd
00:49:58
but again if the person doesn't know how to do their job and do the autopsy right
00:50:03
maybe they don't know if there were drugs in their system or not well I don't think he conducted those tests and
00:50:09
I I don't have the information okay right in front of me I think yeah I think he sent that was sent off but I
00:50:15
think it was in a way that and this is going to sound very crude and I'm sorry but it's it's what
00:50:22
happened um I I think because of how decayed the body was that he had to remove a piece
00:50:28
of Flesh from a remaining piece of Flesh from the body that was sent off for testing
00:50:35
now I I don't have you know I'm not a doctor I don't play one on TV I don't pretend to be a doctor
00:50:44
but I I do want to point this out from my limited knowledge on how this stuff works it's my understanding that that
00:50:52
the manner that they perform that test by cutting off a piece of the Flesh and sending it off is not the preferred way
00:50:58
that they that they would like to do that right so the test could be inconclusive it could be it could be
00:51:05
wrong um but there is some speculation and rumors and and some some loose evidence to prove that she
00:51:13
left that house so that would kind of well there's a couple people that said that that's what they believe you know
00:51:19
that they they heard from other people you know these are all people of the same age that go to the same school
00:51:25
saying hey I heard from so and so that she showed up there that night that she showed up there that evening now there
00:51:32
are a few police officers out there and we referenced them last week stating that uh you know regarding the blattus
00:51:39
brother theory is well I wouldn't work the Jeanette the Palma case because I'm 90 sure that this blattice brother and
00:51:48
I'm going to refrain from using his first name had something to do with this that left her body in the woods and he
00:51:54
died he's passed away and it was in the late 80s or early 90s and so therefore die of
00:52:01
drug over nose I I don't know I don't know all I know is that he's if he did then there's a little more weight to
00:52:07
that story all I know is that he's passed away and they're stating you know look the guy we believed that did this
00:52:13
or that had something to do with this is dead and gone so there's no point in investigating that theory any further we
00:52:21
talked about the homeless the houseless man excuse me red uh that theory he he did you know we questioned how they
00:52:30
cleared him uh he has passed away as well um he they found him in the woods he in
00:52:37
another dwelling that he had put together and I believe this would have been about 12 years 12 or 15 years after
00:52:44
the Jeanette De Palma case it was still soul-searching he was still doing his thing in the woods there uh in a
00:52:51
different part of New Jersey and he was founded I believe it was an ax it was ruled in accidental death in the list
00:52:58
case that we covered was the conclusion of that for the listeners that were probably wondering oh yeah so John list
00:53:06
after having killed his mother wife and children in 1971 um he was on the run for 17 and a half
00:53:14
years Jesus during that time he had relocated a couple of times moving to Michigan then to Colorado and on to
00:53:23
Virginia where he was apprehended and living under the Alias of Robert Peter Clark
00:53:29
going by Robert Peter Clark three first names yeah I didn't pick up on he he did go by
00:53:36
Bob for short no that's um that's very good Bob Clark uh during this time on the Run he had
00:53:43
married again uh he was arrested in June of 1989 in Richmond Virginia uh the and I'll give a brief a brief
00:53:53
story of this because it's kind of it's quite lengthy actually um but this is one of my favorite kind
00:54:00
of old true crime stories that I'm very fond of it's It's a story that I read many years ago and some of you might be
00:54:07
familiar with this but for those of you that are not John list was actually apprehended in in large part to the
00:54:14
America's Most Wanted Tv show uh they had presented his case at least one time multiple times I believe and to the
00:54:23
point where they they made a bust of what John John list would probably look like in 1989. now one of his neighbors a
00:54:34
person that had lived with him yeah I remember this episode yeah somebody that had lived near him in Colorado called
00:54:41
America's Most Wanted and said look I know this dude he looks exactly like him he's a weird guy uh he's the same age
00:54:50
and he's going by this name and three first names he and his wife moved to Richmond Virginia
00:54:57
and they later tracked him down now the crazy thing here though Captain is John list he for like it was like for like
00:55:04
nine months he denied Being John list and he was like nope I'm Robert Peter Clark
00:55:10
I'm Robert Peter Clark you have to prove that I'm not this person that I've been
00:55:14
living as for at least 17 and a half years what this is the crazy son of a [ __ ]
00:55:20
that decided I'm gonna kill everybody in my family because I'm afraid they're going to have
00:55:27
God so if I kill them now they're going to go to God right now yeah it's pure insanity and it's what
00:55:34
what baffles me and all these satanic Panic cases is those are there's a lot that we have talked about are that are
00:55:42
popular cases like West Memphis Three for example don't you think these like very religious uh people killing their
00:55:51
whole family cases should be a little bit more popular to warn people right right I mean but often what we see in
00:55:59
these situations is we have somebody that's probably especially with John list let's use just use him as the prime
00:56:05
example but in this example we see somebody that is a complete psychopath and he's then going to use religion
00:56:13
God's name in heaven as some kind of excuse or or some reasoning behind something that the rest of us do not
00:56:21
want to have to comprehend right because it was a piece of [ __ ] and he wasn't a
00:56:25
believer in God anyways you know and look I'm all for religious rights and spiritual beliefs you know in a healthy
00:56:32
manner though well to to kind of wrap this up though the way that they and remember he was going to stick to his
00:56:39
guns and and say that he was Robert Peter Clark and the way that they did identify him
00:56:45
Robert Peter Clark Trio yeah it's the one-man band uh they they found his old from his old military records when he
00:56:55
was a young man they fingerprint you when you go into the military well they compared those fingerprints for with his
00:57:02
his fingerprints and they matched him up so you can't gotcha got him can't get out of that so uh he was positively
00:57:10
identified as John list remember he left that letter to his Pastor that kind of was a confession remember he said
00:57:19
exactly what he did but like you were saying it's it's less of a confession and more of
00:57:25
um an excuse excuse and and putting some uh backing up his reasoning or what he did but I I only bring that up because
00:57:35
at trial they used that letter against him as a confession good and then his his attorneys pointed out that they
00:57:46
couldn't use it because that was something that he left addressed to his pastor and they have that relationship
00:57:53
you know they have the confidence between the two of them can't be brought up in in court don't worry they they had
00:57:59
no problem um convicting him and unfortunately he was given the the um the worst penalty he could face at the
00:58:10
time was five life sentences so they couldn't they couldn't give him the death penalty
00:58:15
they couldn't give him anything more than five life sentences but uh uh that's what they did in the John list
00:58:21
case if John list still went by Robert Peter Clark I hope they all three got what they deserved in prison
00:58:29
[Music] all right until next time be good be kind and don't litter [Music] thank you
00:58:57
[Music]