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[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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r-u-n beer run and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime [Music] thank you [Music] but we knew that it wasn't we knew that
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Rosie wouldn't just climb out of the window at that late at night and just leave
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and go throw herself in the river because we know she wouldn't do that Rosie tapia's sister and family never
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believed her drowning was accidental her mother discovered Rosie missing just before 6 a.m Sunday the window of her
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bedroom opened screen removed now autopsy results reveal Rosie was probably sexually assaulted before
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drowning in the Jordan River Canal where her body was discovered by a jogger it's
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just so sad because somebody could be so sick to take a baby from her room from her security
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and do such a wrong thing to her what are we supposed to do keep our kids locked up our windows locked our doors
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locked put bars on our window to keep our kids from being stolen and and tossed in a river they're following this
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up with additional statements and interviews of the victims and also Witnesses because it's big
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uh it's becoming more a larger investigation than maybe it was initially one of the Avenues under investigation
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reports the demand was seen hanging around the apartment playground a man who carried Rosie home Saturday after
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she fell off the slide she said that guy was sitting on one of the benches just watching the kids
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and why would a guy just watch kids if he didn't have no kids he's probably seeing who's gonna hit
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next [Music] none of the kids are safe you know until they find this person who did this
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families who live here are now living in fear after the abduction sexual assault
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and murder of six-year-old Rosie Tapia relatives and neighbors are now taking no Chances with their own children I let
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my kids run around here and I want this guy caught because I'm scared that it might happen to my son or my daughter or
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my other son Cara Hansen's daughter was nearly abducted about a year ago so what
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kind of precautions are you taking with your children just sitting outside with them while they play
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making them come in when I go in just not letting them play outside by themselves
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around 8 PM authorities brought in a team of bloodhounds to try and track down where Rosie went into the canal
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police suspect the child knew her abductor and right now there are a few suspects but very little to go on a
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neighbor who lived two floors above Rosie's window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning and other neighbors
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say a strange man had brought the girl home from this playground Saturday night after she fell I don't believe it's
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somebody we know [Music] um hopefully it's not because it'd be even more devastated to know that
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Rosie's death comes one week after this woman's daughter was abducted and raped from the same apartment complex this
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woman says the property managers told her to keep it quiet now right now the our main concern is our security if
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we're going to have to live here I think there should be better so it'll be either better security
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or more security security is now everyone's concern but for Rosie's family the priority is getting the
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killer in custody for somebody to do this he had to have a sick mind very sick mind to do something like this to a
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six-year-old girl what began as a tragic drowning is now being called a murder here's what we
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know little Rosie was discovered missing just before 6 a.m yesterday police say her bedroom window was open and the
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screen removed a jogger discovered her body in the Jordan River canal and an autopsy performed today indicates Rosie
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had been sexually assaulted before drowning in the river [Music] foreign [Music]
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this still unsolved homicide of six-year-old Rosie Tapia it's amazing to me Captain that all of these years later
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this case is still unsolved but as we said yesterday there is some meat on the bone so let's go through some of the DNA
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evidence the suspects that are involved here as well as our offender profile now
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a quick recap of the case we have our victim's mother who checks in on Rosie at 2 30 a.m now she is
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sleeping in her bedroom with her four-year-old sister and four-year-old brother by 5 45 AM Rosie was missing
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from her bedroom this is discovered by her mother the bedroom window was open the screen was removed and the
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girl is missing the police were immediately notified and a search was initiated by approximately 10 a.m the
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victim's body was located by a man who was out walking his dog the body was floating in the Surplus Canal about a
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block from the apartment where she was taken the autopsy revealed that Rosie had been sexually assaulted this is an
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open and active case in the Salt Lake City police department is seeking information in this case one thing that
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I found a little strange here Captain when reviewing the information back from 1995 was that Salt Lake City was
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experiencing something that the rest of the country really was not so the serious crime rate and when we say
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serious crimes we're referring to things like murder rape burglaries violent crimes things like that the serious
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crime rate fell nationally four consecutive years in a row from 1991 to 1995. in fact dropping two percent
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Nationwide from 1994 to 1995. but the opposite of that was Salt Lake City Salt Lake City at the time ranked third
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amongst large cities in the U.S for an increase in serious crime in fact the crime rate in Salt Lake City itself
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climbed a whopping 16.4 percent so while Nationwide we are experiencing dropping rates Salt Lake
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City at this time was was experiencing something completely different Rising rates and Rising significantly probably
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due to high sodium diets well let's dive into the timeline of the investigation and that will lead us to some suspects
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along the way days after the funeral service for little Rosy Tapia we have a Barbie doll that was found left at her
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grave site this Barbie doll was collected by her mother her mother collected several items that were left
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at the gravesite and it's not uncommon for things to be left in Memorial to victims or even to loved one ones that
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pass from natural causes and Rosie's case you had your typical things like pictures grievance cards
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candles stuffed animals things of that nature that were left at the gravesite but one item in particular that was of
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particular interest to Rosie's mother was this Barbie doll that was left at the gravesite now a bunch of these items
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that were left at Rosie's gravesite the mother the family collected them and maintained these items for many years to
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come the Barbie doll that was collected by her mother will actually become part of this investigation decades later
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that's going to lead us to 2002 captain in November of 2002 an unknown person left a rock
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on Rosie tapia's grave with a note written on it now we do not know what that note says but we what we do know is
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the Salt Lake City police department has publicly announced this event as well as
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that they are seeking the person that left the rock that left the note that wrote the note they want to speak
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to this individual now that was 20 years ago that that rock was left on the grave
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site we don't have any report indicating that that person ever came forward or that
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they were ever able to locate the individual or if they were able if they were able to locate or identify the
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individual if they spoke to them so we don't know what has come of that piece of information but what's interesting to
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me is years later decades later they decide this Barbie doll that was left at the gravesite is important to the
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investigation and back in 2002 they knew that this rock with the note left on it was important to the
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investigation and made that clear to the public at some point seeking this individual
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so is there a connection between the Barbie doll and The Rock it's difficult to sit here and say we don't know the
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information that was left in that note but what it does do because initially when I hear about this Barbie doll and
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it being a big deal and then we're going to have it tested and all that stuff I go well it could be a nothing Burger
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because people leave stuff all the time and is it possible that somebody brings their daughter to leave some flowers at
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the gravesite and the daughter has a toy with them and decides well I'm going to
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leave this toy for her but what we do have with this rock in this note is that obviously somebody's
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trying to communicate with their family or law enforcement through that grave site so it puts a
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little bit more uh value or more it puts it as a higher probability that maybe somebody was trying to make a statement
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by leaving some kind of doll at the grave site I kind of LeapFrog something on accident here in our timeline so I
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want to make sure that I include this now before we get too far along good job dumbass but there was a lead
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that they were trying to follow up on early on in this investigation and I want to make sure that we include this
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Captain because we don't know if this information could be paired with something else in the timeline or a
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suspect in this timeline so the lead that they were working on early in the investigation was what they
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were referring to as an elusive truck this was a truck they were trying to find they were trying to identify this
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truck trying to find the owner of this vehicle this elusive truck we don't get much in the way of a
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description other than something that could be a very key identifier on the truck was the truck had a mountain fuel
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logo on it and this was spotted by multiple individuals in the Heartland apartments complex where Rosie lived
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Mountain fuel records indicate that no employee visited the complex in the days prior to Rosie's death
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and the truck is described as old so the detectives have come forward and they said we're looking for this truck
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it's described as an older model truck we've checked the records of mountain fuel
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they have no employees in the area in the days surrounding the murder we think that maybe this vehicle had been sold at
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one point and somebody else is now driving this truck around so back to our timeline
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this will take us up to 2012. and we are getting this information from Jensen privateinvestigations.com they have a
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brief article on there that states that just days after an arrest was made in another murder case
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unfortunately this was the murder of Sierra Newbold this arrest led to the Topia family
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wondering if the man accused of murdering Sierra if this could possibly be linked to
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their daughter's murder that took place 17 years prior the details of this are eerily similar so in
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both cases we have an abduction and then a murder When comparing Rosie tapia's case to
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Sierra newbold's case both girls were taken from their homes both were sexually assaulted and then drowned in a
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Jordan Canal it's strange but also super creepy when these cases sound it sounds
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like the same case just a different victim's name we talked about the Surplus Canal where Rosie Tapia was
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found well unfortunately this other girl who was similar in age similar victim type to Rosie
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unfortunately experience a very similar situation we have Sierra Newbold where the perpetrator of that crime entered
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the home and exited the home through a sliding glass door and then of course we have Rosie's case where the perpetrator
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came in through the window it appears likely that the offender in Rosie's case exited the home the same way that they
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entered the home I would like to get a little bit further confirmation on that because I think when we talk about a
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basement apartment Captain you can start to see the complexities right when trying to remove a child or remove a
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victim in that manner right now you've got to climb back up and and get through that
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window with your victim some people have wondered if there might be two persons involved in Rosie's case that would
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certainly make it easier to transport the victim yeah easier to transport the victim but also easier to maintain
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control of the victim well the man that was arrested in the other case was Terry
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black he was arrested for multiple crimes but one of them was the murder of Sierra Newbold and the special
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investigator Jason Jensen is interviewed here and goes on to tell us a little bit about black saying that
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they looked into Black's criminal record which spans throughout four states Jensen investigations was able to
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determine that yes in fact this Terry black was living in the state of Utah when Rosie was killed they go on to say
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that he was a Salt Lake County resident at that time and they want to be clear here saying so you can't rule him in you
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can't just automatically rule him in but you also cannot rule him out in Rosie's
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case until we have some more information yeah because one we could test the DNA if we have a full sample size of that
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DNA but also this could be a serial killer with the same Mo like we said the crimes are identical with just different
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victim names sadly in this same article here Captain we have Lewin Tapia Rosie's mother who has been up front and
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center has been the face of this investigation since day one and kudos to her for reminding everybody
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about this case because again I didn't see a great deal of coverage locally when this first case broke and
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really it wasn't until these other organizations stepped in that you start to see all of these stories coming out
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and it now goes on to become a national story and today 2023 we have a ton of information and a
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ton of stories about Rosie's case on the Internet thanks to the help of these other entities now luinetopia in this
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article is quoted as saying I'm just hoping I find out before I go she's referencing finding out who killed her
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daughter and she adds I will be up in heaven with her but I still won't know who took her well now this is going to
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bring us to 2018. and I'm going to read some portions of this article that came out this is when we get informed about
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this Barbie doll that was left years ago at Little Rosie tapia's grave site this
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is from 2018 People magazine the headline could a Barbie doll hold the clue to solving a 23 year old cold
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case they go on to say the mother of a murdered child discovered a Barbie doll at her grave site 23 years ago and kept
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it in a glass case it has been more than 20 years since six-year-old Rosie Tapia
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was kidnapped from her Salt Lake City Home assaulted and killed her body was found in a canal off of the Jordan River
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several hours after her disappearance Now 23 years later the Utah Cold Case Coalition is asking the public for any
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tips related to a Barbie doll which was found on top of the girl's grave shortly
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after she died in 1995. quote Rosie's mother went back to her grave regularly she went back and found this doll there
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which was a bit unusual and kept it in a glass case this whole time in September
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of 2017 we should point out here that this Utah Cold Case Coalition is not a law
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enforcement entity okay they are victim Advocates they assist victims families and trying to further the investigations
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keep the investigations in the spotlight in the media and help raise money and resources to possibly finally solve some
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of these cases so this is where you see from a media standpoint anyway this case
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take a 180 degree turn from where there's not a whole lot being reported on Rosie's case until you get Jensen
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investigations until you get the Utah Cold Case Coalition involved and they've really helped to climb to the
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mountaintops and keep shouting and shouting and shouting from the mountaintops about this case since then
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yeah but we also all know how it works when there's a case take the Brian shaver case guy walks into a bar he's
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seen on camera never seen on camera leaving the bar is he inside is he outside there's like a little creepy
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factor that Sparks our human interest and so I think in this case when you start going well
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there's this creepy man that returned her home returned Rosie home the day that she was kidnapped that that kind of
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Sparks her interest and then when you find out that there's this Barbie doll that might have some significance and
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then you can start picturing your mind's eye This creepy Barbie doll that's found
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at the grave site I think it really Sparks our human interest to go I want to know more about this case so in
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September of 2017 the Coalition approached the Salt Lake City Police Department with that Barbie doll
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and they asked them to test it for DNA but unfortunately they say they basically did not get a response or we
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can assume they at least did not get the response that they wanted since then the Coalition decided to move
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forward on testing the doll without assistance from law enforcement they go on to say that there will be two phases
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in the test the first phase extracts the DNA that they're hoping to find and the
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second which is the more costly portion identifies the DNA so this article comes out in 2018
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so when they say last year they're referring to 2017. they say that the group was able to pay to get the DNA
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extracted from the doll which did include male DNA the group believes that the doll known
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as a pretty hearts Barbie could be a valuable clue in the case and they're hoping someone will come forward with
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any information on who may have left it there quote we thought we'd give the public a
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chance to say I left that there or hey that's my doll it went missing now I know where it is so what they're saying
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here Captain is they've taken on this without the assistance of law enforcement it's a two-phase process in
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2018 they're saying we've already paid for phase one phase two is the much more costly much more expensive part of the
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investigation right we're making an announcement publicly this came out in People magazine it was on the internet
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it was it was in every newspaper that you can think of and they're saying we just want somebody to come forward let
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us know if you left the Barbie doll there because if somebody comes forward and we're like we can prove that they
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had nothing to do with the case well we can move on and we don't have to waste resources and money on identifying
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who left it there what's interesting to me Captain was the way that this Barbie doll is described
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it was described as used okay so I wanted to know what used meant right I'm assuming it's not in its
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packaging well all my toys all my toys growing up were used but take it a step further I was told by somebody very
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close to the case that it it's described as used because it was clear that it it
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was not only not in its packaging this was a Barbie doll that was likely sold the year
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prior to her murder and had obvious signs of wear and tear that it was played with
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this could be looked at as a creep Factor it could be looked at simply as maybe a child did this but there were
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some chew marks on the feet of the Barbie doll yeah I think a lot of this to me just points to the idea that
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a child is there their parents are showing their condolences and then the child leaves the Barbie and look maybe
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the child doesn't remember leaving the Barbie maybe the parents don't remember the child leaving the Barbie as said
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they were able to determine they were able to just to extract some male DNA or DNA that included male DNA from the doll
00:26:32
now what we do know is we sit here five years later after this article came out five years after they asked someone to
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come forward claim to have left the doll or know who left the doll yeah and nobody's come forward so that means one
00:26:50
of three things there's only three possible outcomes with that a the person that left the doll is
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completely innocent and just never heard the public cry for information right B the person is who left it wants to
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remain anonymous for any number of reasons a lot of those reasons I would say would
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be suspicious or three you mean c keep in mind the stall was left in 1995. people think
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you're a genius given the victim's age it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that
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a friend or a loved one or even just somebody being sympathetic from afar from watching on TV or from the
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neighborhood maybe another young person close in age to Rosie left the doll there
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and now fast forward to 2018 all those years later they were just so young they don't
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recall leaving the Barbie doll at the gravesite right so to me there's only three reasons why
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somebody wouldn't come forward one of those one of those is suspicious [Music] thank you
00:28:21
[Music] all right we are back thanks for joining us cheers everybody cheers sippy sippy on your cup
00:28:37
look I I hate to poo poo on the parade but I'm not so concerned with this Barbie
00:28:44
doll as I'm concerned with this man that brings her Rosie back to the apartment after she has an accident on the
00:28:52
playground yes air quotes accident on the playground got kicked in the back because there's the other side of that
00:28:58
debate is that it never happened that the person brought Rosie back but she was not hurt wasn't crying was not in
00:29:06
need of assistance and this person might have just been looking for some kind of
00:29:10
information to later use well because initially everybody in the apartment complex goes
00:29:17
hey we know who this guy is he doesn't have any kids he sits at the park he plays guitar for the kids he's
00:29:24
kind of a strange weirdo so if he's at the park multiple times then probably pretty likely that he knows who Rosie is
00:29:32
it's probably pretty likely he knows where her apartment is but it's very strange to be a guy playing guitar at
00:29:40
the park for kids and watching kids when you don't have any of your own so here this becomes a big problem for
00:29:48
the investigation and from the Salt Lake City Police Department's investigation from that side
00:29:55
early on in the investigation they said that they had identified this man and for clarity purposes we're going to call
00:30:01
this man the Good Samaritan right the guy that's what he's been referred to in multiple Stories the guy that brought
00:30:07
Rosie home to her apartment that night said that she was hurt on the playground they say that they identified him as a
00:30:15
man who had a son that was a divorce a so he had his son part-time right and he played guitar at the playground and
00:30:25
often his son was there with him so you have and you heard it in our sound clip leading into today's storytelling of the
00:30:32
case that people were suspicious of people in the park or people at the playground why
00:30:38
would a man be sitting there by himself why would he be there without a child old flicky flicky Pito people were
00:30:44
suspicious of that and rightfully so well police say we moved on from the Good Samaritan because we identified him
00:30:51
as a man who I believe he was a truck driver or worked out of town for a portion of his schedule he's a
00:30:59
divorcee with his with his son has his son part time lives in the apartment complex
00:31:06
and was known to play the guitar at the playground by the way based off of his work records
00:31:13
they show that he was out of town when Rosie was abducted and killed the problem with that then becomes Guitar
00:31:23
Man and the Good Samaritan cannot be the same person we again we don't have the details
00:31:29
did he leave on a trucking route at midnight right and so then we know that from from the time period that she was
00:31:38
abducted that he wouldn't have been around but he could have been able to bring her back to the apartment earlier
00:31:44
that day I like you said I think it's it's very unclear if this Good Samaritan and this this uh
00:31:53
divorcee truck driver if they're the same person right is Guitar Man in the Good Samaritan the same person there
00:32:00
have been people that have come forward and said no we know who the guitar guy is just like the police says and we are
00:32:09
saying that's not the same person so then in retrospect they go back and they look and unfortunately even though they
00:32:15
said they were able to move on from the Good Samaritan very much like a case that we very recently reviewed there's
00:32:22
no documents backing any of that up they can't say who spoke to this man there's
00:32:28
no documents backing it up showing that that they positively identified the Good
00:32:35
Samaritan man so many are pointing out a problem with that having moved on from the Good Samaritan too quickly that
00:32:42
maybe maybe they misidentified him and that those two individuals are not one and the same but what we do have is
00:32:50
Rosie's sister answered the door and talked to this man the problem is he's wearing a hat he's wearing glasses he's
00:32:58
almost like incognito and then when they release a sketch of this individual he looks like an alien human from Men In
00:33:10
Black right right well difficult to say he he could be a an alien in Disguise or
00:33:15
he could be the man in Black right it's a it's a Men In Black type situation the guy the description is
00:33:21
basically take a face and put big sunglasses and a hat on it and that's your your sketch that you get
00:33:28
yeah in the face before we move on too far from the Barbie doll though Captain I do want to point out that the uh
00:33:34
you're a little too obsessed with dolls of all the things that they paid for again nobody ever came forward taking
00:33:40
credit for leaving the Barbie doll we should point out a couple of things here that the Coalition the Cold Case
00:33:48
Coalition has pointed out saying that they have received numerous calls about Barbie dolls left at gravesites for
00:33:57
other murdered girls including some in other states and they go on to say that they don't know if there is any possible
00:34:05
link between any of the cases but they do say the time frames we've been contacted on are fairly close together
00:34:12
although in different states could it be the same person I don't know could it be
00:34:17
a certain type of Predator I don't know could it also be totally innocent possibly well no and think about uh True
00:34:25
Detective the One season there was these handmade woven uh dolls that were given to these
00:34:34
victims so when they go to investigate these murder crimes and they go look through
00:34:42
uh the rooms of the victims they find these handmade dolls to me that that would be a link but a
00:34:50
Barbie doll is such a common item a lot of these people that are showing respect
00:34:55
to these victims by leaving flowers or just visiting the grave site if they have a child with them
00:35:03
I could totally see a child going well I'm going to donate my doll and I could also see that being a a situation with
00:35:11
Rosie's case where the parent might not have even known that their daughter did that and look I
00:35:19
have pretty good memories of of things I've done and you'd think that this would also be a memory that would stick
00:35:25
out to you going to go visit a grave when you're a little kid but I have friends of mine that they can't remember
00:35:32
[ __ ] from when they're a kid in 2019 the Utah Cold Case Coalition released a sketch of a possible suspect in Rosy
00:35:41
tapia's murder according to a press release the sketch is based on a neighbor's recollection the neighbor
00:35:48
lived in the same apartment complex where the six-year-old lived when she was abducted and murdered the neighbor
00:35:54
claims that he was up early saw a teenager coming from the same direction as the canal where she was later found
00:36:01
at first as the captain pointed out yesterday this neighbor thought that the teen was wearing pants of two different
00:36:08
colors but then realized the pants were wet this is interesting this is is the lead and the sketch that we talked about
00:36:17
yesterday this is the one that comes out but it doesn't come out until 2019. now some of these reports state
00:36:25
that this neighbor because you're sitting here going well why would this individual wait so long
00:36:31
to tell anybody about this this neighbor person I don't know if it's a she or he
00:36:36
but they claim that they did give this information to the Salt Lake City Police Department back in 1995 but there was
00:36:45
little to no follow-up on it at all the witness described this teenager as a 16 to 17 year old boy who is Hispanic
00:36:55
with a slight build and a narrow face with high cheekbones he says that he was seen wearing denim jeans a white shirt
00:37:03
and a medium length gold chain baller now what's interesting is that police get this sketch
00:37:13
and they hold on to it for a period of time I believe it was like two months the reason why this sketch is
00:37:21
so important I've looked at this in comparison to the Good Samaritan sketch the man that returned Rosie right
00:37:29
there's not the Good Samaritan sketch is not descriptive enough really to compare
00:37:33
it to anything I've heard and read people say that the sketches look like they could be the same person
00:37:40
frankly I mean I don't think it's you can compare anything to the Good Samaritan sketch no because he looks
00:37:47
like a undercover alien but no I think this is actually the the biggest and best lead that we have and
00:37:55
it it sucks that it took so long to one compile this sketch and then to release the sketch because again I'm going to go
00:38:03
back to the initial investigation this becomes very difficult for law enforcement because you have basically a
00:38:09
small town in this apartment complex so you would see a lot of individuals so to jog your memory and go oh yeah
00:38:19
there was a teenage boy that would walk around the complex to draw jog your memory
00:38:25
10 15 years later to try to identify somebody that you might have only seen a few times that if
00:38:33
this sketch was released two weeks after the murders I think you'd have a lot of
00:38:38
people coming forward and saying well that looks like Ricky or that looks like Steve or that looks like whoever it's so
00:38:43
difficult and we've talked about this before we've talked to plenty of detectives that say time is everything
00:38:49
we bring it up all the time time is the killer time is the killer of evidence time is the killer of solving these
00:38:55
cases and the detectives would tell you if early on in the investigation have we
00:39:01
just spoke to this person I think the outcome would have been different had we just found this piece of the puzzle
00:39:06
early in the investigation instead of all these years later I think that the outcome would be different I agree with
00:39:13
you here Captain I think that this is that piece of the puzzle this is that person that had they just had this
00:39:20
information and maybe they did again this person is saying that I gave this information we
00:39:26
don't know it's difficult to say we can only base it off of the reports we are seeing but had they had this information
00:39:31
back in 1995 maybe we're not sitting here talking about an unsolved homicide and the reason why I state that is
00:39:38
because this 2019 sketch of wet pants man may be the most and best tip that they've got all along and this is going
00:39:49
to be the best way of crowdsourcing this case so there's some backstory that comes
00:39:56
along with this composite sketch and that is that when the composite sketch was released by The Police
00:40:03
this man who is reported his name is Dan contacts the police department and says
00:40:11
that sketch looks similar to a friend of mine he was a friend of mine back in 1995 and he's still somebody that I stay
00:40:19
in touch with to this day right now we're no longer close but we were back in 95.
00:40:27
and he says what's even more strange about the sketch is that prior to it being released his friend
00:40:36
had called him and said hey I heard that they're putting together a sketch of somebody that they think is a suspect in
00:40:42
the rosie Tapia case and this Dan individual says yes that's what I've heard as well
00:40:48
and the friend of Dan says to Dan wouldn't it be funny if the sketch looks like one of us well I'm sure they
00:40:56
probably shared a laugh and it seems like a dumb statement I don't know why any of that would be funny when we're
00:41:01
talking about the murder of a six-year-old but right Dan calls police and says look my friend called me before
00:41:08
the sketch came out and said wouldn't it be funny if it looks like one of us now
00:41:12
the sketch comes out I think it looks like my friend right the one that thought it would be so hilarious well I
00:41:18
guess guess I'm guessing he didn't find it to be too funny when it does come out
00:41:22
and it looks like him there is some reports out there that uh this individual states that I've seen the
00:41:30
sketch it does not look like me in that person's opinion this person to their credit
00:41:35
did agree to a DNA swab and so did the Dan individual agree to a DNA swab I know that the unnamed individual
00:41:47
friend that they did in fact collect his DNA one one of the things that we have or
00:41:53
one of the things I've seen reported is that that Rosie Ellie's put up some kind
00:41:58
of struggle and so they believe that they could get some DNA from underneath her fingernails I've referenced once or
00:42:05
twice that we spoke to somebody very close to the case and I was not aware at the time when
00:42:11
speaking to this individual that this unnamed person the friend of Dan that had wet pants
00:42:18
what's that the guy that could be Mr wet pants possibly could be Mr wetpants I did not know that this friend of Dan had
00:42:27
agreed to a DNA swap yeah I didn't see that reported but this is one of those weird scenarios where you were actually
00:42:34
able to talk to an individual that's really close to this case so some of the stuff that you're putting out in this
00:42:41
episode I'm hearing for the first time as well so what happened is this and I'm going to go through our interaction
00:42:49
together because I did not know this in advance my reaction to him telling me this information was I said look I've
00:42:57
reviewed I'm no Detective but I've reviewed a lot of homicide cases here in the garage with the
00:43:03
captain and it's my experience that guilty people don't so willingly offer up their DNA and he said to me
00:43:13
that's exactly right Nick but keep in mind when he offered up his DNA there was a big question mark out there
00:43:22
whether DNA existed as evidence in this case at all right in fact there was police on record more than one occasion
00:43:31
stating that they did not have DNA so I said to him either that's some great strategy by the police to not release
00:43:39
that they have DNA or there's something weird with the DNA evidence yeah well like we said uh one of the
00:43:47
Destroyers of evidence is time but also water I think that's why you see some of
00:43:52
these cases even if there are these brutal murders but the victim is found in water it it becomes way more
00:44:00
difficult for law enforcement to put together the pieces of the puzzle to solve the case now let's stay in the
00:44:05
year of 2019 here as we continue on our timeline because this directly impacts what we were just talking about in 2019
00:44:16
new details about the case were released by the Salt Lake City police department
00:44:20
but this was done in an episode by investigation discovery Network the Paula Zahn
00:44:28
on the case on on the case with palazan and the episode about Rosie tapia's murder was
00:44:38
titled she's gone for the first time in Rosie's case the case had gone National on on a big
00:44:46
national scale here Beyond even what the national scale that it hit in 2018. again I want to point out all the good
00:44:54
work that the Jensen investigations have done and the Cold Case Coalition because
00:45:00
they're the entities that made this a national story when this case did not get a whole lot of local media coverage
00:45:07
they changed that 180 degrees once they stepped in so and they've worked directly with the
00:45:15
Tapia family on this case all along don't dismiss the power of palazan well don't dismiss the power of these
00:45:23
victims advocacy programs these um non-profit organizations that exist what was shocking to
00:45:33
Rosie's mother when she watched the paulazon case and the Tapia family was participating in the making of that
00:45:43
episode but when she watched it she for the very first time says that she learned that they did have DNA in her
00:45:51
daughter's case says quote I did not know that they had DNA from her fingernails I asked them a long time ago
00:45:58
if they had DNA from her fingernails and they told me they didn't have any end quote now you think you're being
00:46:06
cooperative with this production company you would think that well first of all you'd think Warren we're going to
00:46:13
disclose all the information to you before we release it to the public but also maybe that we're going to let you
00:46:20
watch watch it before it comes out let you watch the documentary early before the information comes out to the public
00:46:28
the if you're going to play the numbers here the numbers would tell you the statistics would tell you
00:46:35
that the overwhelming majority of the time this kind of offender is known to the family knows the family or knows the
00:46:43
victim right my suspicion here is if in fact they had good DNA evidence and that's what I think we need to hone in
00:46:52
on here in a second if in fact they had good DNA evidence if there's a chance that they thought
00:46:58
that the perpetrator may be known to the family they may have withheld this information from the family as well as
00:47:06
part of their investigation right which which does make some sense according to police statements on the paulazon
00:47:14
episode Salt Lake City police said that they have more than 60 samples from different persons in this case now it's
00:47:24
also been reported that they could not enter or compare the DNA that they found in Rosie's case to DNA on CODIS that it
00:47:35
did not meet the criteria for being able to upload it or compare it to the coded database yeah most likely
00:47:44
meaning it doesn't have enough markers correct which the point I was going to make that I had
00:47:50
a little brain fart earlier I heard it it smells we have an eyewitness that is saying that this Mr wet pants is a late
00:48:00
teenager this is a horrific crime this is the type of crime that even if this is his first crime
00:48:08
this is probably a murderer that's going to continue on the path of being a horrific murderer
00:48:15
so you would think at some point he would either get caught for this or like you said get caught
00:48:22
in a home and then get charged with breaking and entering but it all depends on where he was arrested did they
00:48:30
collect DNA and like you said if there's not enough markers then you can't even compare that DNA but it
00:48:36
wouldn't surprise me if this individual was in prison or has been in prison for another crime or attempting another
00:48:44
crime like this so here's what I can tell you here's what I've learned very recently sell it to us colonel
00:48:51
the DNA stuff let's set that aside for a minute so we know that the DNA was collected from the friend of Dan
00:48:59
Dan not only tells police this guy my old friend resembles the sketch that you're now putting out but he also said
00:49:08
this weird statement to me a month or so before the sketch came out wouldn't it be funny if it looked like one of us now
00:49:15
we have this situation where we learn a little bit about this friend from Dan now Dan is very important and could be
00:49:25
key to this investigation for a couple of reasons one he's saying that my friend
00:49:30
Dan was young of course roughly 17-18-ish let's say around the time of Rosie's murder his friend would have
00:49:40
been 16 at the time so that fits with the sketch of wet pants man who he also Dan is saying this man looks like Dan at
00:49:50
one time dated Amelia the older daughter the 18 year old daughter that was watching the kids that
00:49:57
night and as the captain had talked about on our last episode The ex-boyfriend Dan
00:50:04
was an ex-boyfriend he was somebody who had gone into the Tapia apartment on more than one occasion to meet with his
00:50:12
girlfriend Amelia and when he did he would do that via that same window that the offender came in and abducted
00:50:21
Rosie Tapia but it even gets more deep gets more deep because he says his friend was aware
00:50:28
that he would use this window to climb in and out of the Tapia home right this guy has intimate knowledge of the crime
00:50:36
scene intimate knowledge of the family he looks like the sketch and it's been pointed out to me by the
00:50:46
person close to the investigation that this individual may have only given his DNA swab willingly voluntarily because
00:50:54
he may have been led to believe or was under the assumption at the time that they didn't have DNA evidence in Rosie
00:51:02
tapia's case right or look maybe he's also aware that they do have DNA but it's just partial and so maybe he is one
00:51:13
of these narcissists that's like hey well try your luck with this partial DNA not every criminal's so smart either
00:51:19
most of the time that it's the opposite and maybe he just felt pressured enough that he submitted the DNA just to get
00:51:27
them off of his back right and cross his fingers and hope that he would get lucky
00:51:31
what's difficult though is now we sit here a couple years later and where it sits where the case sits is there is a
00:51:38
100 000 reward in the rosy Tapia case that money is not meant for a witness to come forward after all of these years
00:51:48
who saw something and just forgot it and didn't and decided not to come forward when you put together a substantial
00:51:53
reward like that that tells me that the people putting together the reward believe that there are other people that
00:52:01
are aware of what this person did this money is a nudge this money is encouraged meant to turn on that
00:52:09
individual that you may have been protecting out of fear for all of these years well no I would bet money
00:52:17
of this douchebag is saying things to his friend Dan oh what would it be funny if we looked like the sketch and Dan is
00:52:28
obviously close to the victim in in the sense that he dated the older sibling so
00:52:35
he knows the family so if he's making weird statements to somebody that knows the family knows probably a little bit
00:52:44
about the investigation probably knows a little bit about the crime what other weird comments has he made to other
00:52:50
individuals maybe at a bar when he gets drunk maybe at a party what other weird statements has he made
00:52:57
to other people that weren't connected to the family and weren't connected to the crime
00:53:03
so as far as the DNA goes what we've been told where the kiss case sits now is the DNA collected from the victim is
00:53:12
being sent off for genealogy detection work that the DNA collected from the Barbie
00:53:19
doll is being sent off by the private entity for genealogy detection work those statements came out a while ago so if
00:53:29
there's been any movement or advancement and and guess what I have personal experience and can tell you those are
00:53:35
not fast investigations the genealogy stuff can take six weeks six months 18 months two years it can be a long and
00:53:45
difficult process and you're not always guaranteed results so we don't know exactly where that stands other than
00:53:52
we've been told it's been sent off in both cases by two different entities yeah or sometimes they get results back
00:54:00
that then take more leg work to connect the dots the thing is with the DNA that's collected from the victim and
00:54:08
we've seen this in plenty of other cases too Captain you can usually use those if
00:54:12
it does not have enough markers to fit the criteria for CODIS it likely has enough markers that you
00:54:19
can rule some people out from those 60 that you've collected and you can keep some people in but you can't
00:54:26
conclusively link it to one individual now we talked about early on how there were statements given by police that yes
00:54:35
the FBI is working to put together a profile on the offender but then they've never made that profile if it exists
00:54:42
public so in those cases when able and I think we can hear Captain I like to do what some people think is very arrogant
00:54:51
of me but guess what you go get your own show and you can do what you want on your show this is our show so I got 50
00:54:57
of the same wow I like to put together our own I like to put together our own profile here for you in the garage and
00:55:06
I'm going to use some expert information to piece that together I'll start it off
00:55:11
with the lesser of the experts that would be yours true the colonel now it's been my experience in the cases that
00:55:20
we've reviewed that are similar to Rosie's case that we are usually talking about a
00:55:27
younger offender and it's not terribly uncommon in fact the numbers would suggest that it is more common
00:55:36
that the offender in this type of case has a similar or the same ethnic background as the victim so what I'm
00:55:44
saying here is when you can see and review this case on a map the first thing that jumps off the page is the
00:55:52
person that abducted killed and placed the body and left the body in that canal did not need any means of transportation
00:56:01
other than their own two legs to commit this crime sometimes that's an indicator
00:56:06
that your offender is either too young to drive or of a younger age and does not possess a vehicle of Their Own
00:56:16
now while we don't have the FBI profile to talk about we do have a clinical psychologist Steve Kramer who evaluates
00:56:25
sex offenders for the Utah State Prison System and back in 1995 he gave the following information saying that the
00:56:33
Killer is a quote very impulsive person one who does the first thing that comes into his head without thinking of the
00:56:41
consequences right the statement goes on to say most pedophiles are smooth operators who control their environment
00:56:48
to gain access to Children he may marry a single mother to get at her kids or befriend children at a playground
00:56:55
Rosie's killer is different from this he can't even initiate a conversation he's
00:57:01
probably a withdrawn loner type of person this was a real cowardly act should I get my profile no I spent hours
00:57:11
and hours on my profile well I would like to continue along with some information from Kenneth Lanning book
00:57:17
and we know that Kenneth Lanning was involved he was the special agent from the FBI that was involved early on in
00:57:23
this investigation and I think this gives us a possibly more complete profile picture of our offender from
00:57:30
page 84 of his book love bombs and molesters he states that most child molesters do not abduct their victims in
00:57:38
most offenders who do abduct their victims do not kill them statistics bear this out then if you fast forward to
00:57:46
page 1 14. Kenneth Lanning learned from BSU research that the primary but not the only reason some child molesters use
00:57:55
violence and abduction to control their victims was that they lacked the interpersonal skills to do otherwise to
00:58:03
put it rather simply here captain please do what Landing is stating after his years of expertise in his years in in
00:58:13
working on these types of crimes is that the persons that abduct and kill typically are doing this because they do
00:58:22
not groom they do not have the ability to groom and victimize the victim over a period of time
00:58:29
there's somebody that lacks those skills what's interesting is cross-referencing
00:58:35
that with what Steve Kramer the clinical psychologist for Utah State Prison System back in 95 said that this killer
00:58:43
is very impulsive person he does the first thing that comes into his head without thinking of the consequences and
00:58:49
to me this all goes in line with our composite sketch of wet pants man who was described as 16 to 17 and goes along
00:58:57
with the experiences that we've seen when reviewing these cases here on True Crime garage that this type of case fits
00:59:04
the profile of a younger offender of a local offender likely lived in the complex or very near the complex and
00:59:12
likely did not possess the ability to drive a vehicle legally or have an actual vehicle we're not just making
00:59:20
this stuff up look at the close proximity from where the victim was found to where
00:59:26
she was abducted back in 1995. yeah and the profile I worked on for hours if not
00:59:32
days was this individual it's a giant piece of [ __ ] and I'm convinced I there's just a gut feeling
00:59:40
of mine that that this horrible individual has made weird comments about this case such as I might look like the
00:59:48
sketch wouldn't that be funny those are weird comments so if you have heard somebody that has made weird
00:59:56
comments about this case turn their name into law enforcement and let them do the
01:00:01
due diligence to rule them in or out unless this individual was picked up for a burglary or something else shortly
01:00:08
after 95 I think what we're probably dealing with here like you said Captain somebody
01:00:14
knows something that's 100 because a person that carries out this level of violence a person that carries out this
01:00:22
level of victimization is incapable of controlling themselves they will have and victimize in the future
01:00:31
likely in domestic situations where they will add violence bring violence into their home against their spouse their
01:00:39
children other loved ones so somebody out there very likely knows something remember there is a reward for
01:00:46
up to one hundred thousand dollars in Rosie tapia's case someone somewhere has information that can help solve this
01:00:54
homicide no fact is insignificant no details too small if you have any information please
01:01:01
call 385-258-3313 that number is answered by representatives of the family and not
01:01:08
law enforcement or you can email who killed Rosie gmail.com again this is monitored by Family Representatives
01:01:17
foreign [Music] thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage and this would be a
01:01:38
great example of a case that could be shared on social media to to spread the word get people talking and maybe we
01:01:45
could make a difference Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners we do Captain and
01:01:50
very fittingly so our recommended reading for this week is Lou and JonBenet a legendary Lawman's quest to
01:01:58
solve a child Beauty Queen's Murder by John Wesley Anderson John Wesley Anderson himself is a former homicide
01:02:07
detective turned author after retiring from a 30-year law enforcement career and he was good friends with Lou Smith
01:02:15
and this book is about Lou Smith's investigation into the still surprisingly so still unsolved homicide
01:02:24
of Little John Benet Ramsey make sure you check out Lou and JonBenet by John Wesley Anderson you can find that
01:02:32
recommendation and many more on our recommended page on our website truecrimegarage.com and if you want to
01:02:39
join us live make sure you get a ticket at True Crime garage.com click on the Live Events link and that's how you can
01:02:47
get a ticket hope to see you there and until next week be good be kind and don't litter
01:03:01
[Music] thank you