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foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
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our bonus show called off the record on Stitcher premium and kernel that is enough of the business all right
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime oh [Music]
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we couldn't talk about this case the wrongful conviction of Ryan Ferguson and Charles Erickson without introducing
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someone who's a very very big part of this case and this story Bill Ferguson Ryan Ferguson's father and his efforts
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to right this wrong and get his son out of prison and for me the bill Ferguson story starts with seeing him in court
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fully supporting his son and what's amazing to watch the body language and the facial expressions as
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the trial goes on and what you can tell he is thinking on the inside he's I've hired this defense attorney this guy is
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a reputable supposed to be one of the best in the area and he's watching this guy fumble through the case fumble
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through the trial and he's thinking my god I've paid this man all this money and this is not going to work out for my
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son we also see Ryan Ferguson on the stand who as the captain pointed out he seems a little
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unengaged or or doesn't seem doesn't come off to at least Express the severity of the
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situation and I think we've seen that plenty of times with these individuals who deep down in their heart they know
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they're innocent they're sitting there on trial and I think that they think at some
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point the truth will come out there's no way they can convict me of something I couldn't have done well and the other
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problem is this defense attorney looks like a penis with a mustache [Music] [Laughter]
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I mean am I wrong every time he talked all I could see was a penis with a mustache but could you
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imagine Bill Ferguson you being Bill Ferguson sitting there at this trial thinking of the who knows how much he
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paid that I've I've reviewed cases where they've paid defense attorneys a hundred
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and fifty thousand dollars and these guys don't put on a good case they don't represent their client to their best of
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their abilities he's sitting in court going I just paid this man all this money and he can't even he can't even
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poke holes in the prosecution's theory he can't even show up with a map with the actual buildings on it that he's
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talking about you know we see this all the time time and that's the thing this wasn't even a public defender and not
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not to [ __ ] on public defenders I mean they literally do the most amazing work
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they are incredibly underpaid and overworked but that's the problem they're underpaid and overworked so you
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know if you can afford to hire a private lawyer you always think oh this person's
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going to be better than a public defender who has a million cases and sometimes only goes and sees clients
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once twice before the trial um so it's really it's it's really sad it's really sad that that happened what
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was the background of Charles's family his his parents what did they do for a living yeah so Charles's father Works in
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he worked for the public defender's office he was an investigator and Marianne currently is a is a professor
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or a teacher um I don't know what she was doing back then but they are both you know he does
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come from a very nice well-to-do middle class family well it also seems like Charles Charles was gifted like he had
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above average level of IQ still does he's he Charles is brilliant and he did and that's
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that's what I highlight a lot you know he was amazing athlete he was incredibly smart he did get a scholarship to
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college and then you know as happens with a lot of teens he just got really into partying and that all kind of went
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out the window for a bit and led to where he is now well but when you look at his background and his parents it
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makes zero sense that it wasn't his father that stopped this whole train because
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like we like Nick was saying with uh with Ryan Ferguson's father he's a real estate agent knew nothing
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about criminal justice and gets all these wheels and motions and basically is the reason his son got freed from
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prison well and I want to take this moment to do a little Public Service Announcement here because if you are
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going into this trial let's put yourself in the Ferguson situation your son's being charged with something you believe
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him to be innocent for you hire a defense attorney a defense team to represent him at court Ryan Ferguson
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received the highest bail 20 million dollars the highest bail from what the documentary tells us to be
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in the United States ever for a single murder charge if your defense attorney gets you the highest bail ever in the
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history of the United States it's time to switch teams right then and there 20 million dollars this kid they were not
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going to let him out for a single day before his trial so Ryan spent how long in in prison Ryan
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did it 10 years Charles has um a pro hearing coming up in 2023 yes he has a parole hearing do you think
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that is one of the reasons because anybody that hears the Ryan Ferguson case I think it scares people because
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it's just something that could happen to anybody if it could happen to this guy and he wasn't even there and he should
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have a solid Alibi driving his buddy home that solid Alibi turns into the nail in
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your coffin yeah so I think this a story when people hear it it scares the living
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[ __ ] out of them because it could happen to you if it happened to this kid there
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was again the prosecutor sitting there on the stand saying there's zero physical evidence to even put them at
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the crime scene so I think that is what scares the living [ __ ] out of people it does
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it's it's absolutely terrifying and I think we we're talking about it a minute ago when we're talking about they both
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come from well-off middle class white families able to hire private Defenders and this still happened to them and it
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and I think that's what scares people it's like if they're not safe who is safe from corrupt law enforcement well I
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think that's what created the outrage when people see the initial story because you have to go back and forth a
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little bit to go okay well but Charles is saying that they were there so there's a possibility that this guy is
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guilty we've seen that before but eventually everybody gets to the conclusion that neither one of these
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guys are guilty and it seems like there was this huge outrage for Ryan but there's
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never been that outrage for Charles well there's a couple things to that so Kathleen Zellner comes on in
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2009 and that's of course what actually leads to Ryan um having the conviction vacated she
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comes on in 2009 and at this point Charles realizes Ryan didn't have anything to do with this and he finds
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out Ryan has hired Kathleen Zellner pre-making a murderer but she was still a pretty big shot lawyer she has gotten
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some people who are wrongfully convicted off and Charles reaches out to her and says I have to say something and so this
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is what we see in dream pillar and and parts of it are on Charles's website is this deposition she takes from Charles
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where he sits her down and says actually I lied Ryan had nothing to do with this
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but I did and I I did this alone and she was like what so shock to her because she's done she knows it that neither of
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them did it yeah so she's like what well okay um still gotta get my client out so we
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get Ryan out and Charles is still convinced of his guilt at this point and he said I was doing what I could to help
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Brian I realized I [ __ ] up like he had nothing to do with this but I still did
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because at this point Charles doesn't know that these police reports were false he doesn't know that this
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these alleged reports of people saying they heard Ryan confessing are false so he still thinks there's evidence against
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him in the form of Jerry Trump saying that they saw them he doesn't know Shayna ornt says she never saw them so
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he doesn't know any of this so he's still thinking well you know people are saying I was there so I guess I was yeah
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one of the real big things in this case for Charles was his friend Dallas Mallory I believe is
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his name that Eric was always convinced that he saw Dallas at some point in the night because Dallas was dressed up as a
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possible cop or something but is 100 convinced that so he knows that he went to these parties he went to this bar he
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knows that for certain he has thousands of people backing up that or hundreds of
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people backing up that part of the story the rest of the night in Charles's mind
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is I blacked out I don't remember anything but one of the things that he keeps remembering is I saw Dallas in his
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car at this traffic light while the traffic light just so happens to be close to the
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crime scene so that's really well that's the thing they that's what was the LIE they told him that Dallas said that he
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saw him at that intersection Dallas said he never saw him Dallas was like I saw him at the party earlier that's what
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Charles is remembering he knows he saw Dallas but it was at this Halloween party but the police are lying to him
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and saying uh Dallas saw you near the crime scene and Charles was like well I do remember seeing Dallas so I guess he
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saw me by the crime scene Charles again has no idea any of this is not true until
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long after his statement to Zellner around 2013 I believe he told me he started kind of figuring out all of this
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was fabricated and you know he has these now fake memories planted in his head from the police and the prosecution well
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and this is where it gets pretty interesting to me because they're telling him like you said Charles knows he saw
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Dallas that night at the party they start saying well you saw him at this intersection and Dallas was parked at a
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red traffic light you talked to him for a little bit and then he drives off obviously when the
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light turns green so then you have Ryan Ferguson's father that goes down to the crime scene walks it multiple times
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goes to this intersection and realizes at that time of day there's no red light there's just blinking yellow lights so
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just that part of the story is fake and then Dallas then comes forward and says I felt pressured to say anything I
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basically told the prosecution whatever you want me to say I'll go along with and at the time of the murder he did not
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have a vehicle or a license more impossibilities of Charles actually seeing him the night of the murder yeah
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you know exactly it's um and then so you know I talk about Dallas a lot in my podcast but there's also Megan Arthur
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and Richard Walker similarly Charles is given police reports from them saying Ryan confessed and they both later
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recant and he has no idea about this he has no idea so he's still thinking oh you know these two people are saying you
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know I did this um but do you think with his Pro hearing being so close that that's a reason why
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people are don't seem as willing to like try to do something or create some kind
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of a commotion to help get him out no I don't I don't think anyone even really knows about the parole I think he's been
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he's been forgotten much of the story was intentionally focused on Ryan he was the more
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sympathetic person in the story and then once Ryan gets out it was kind of that's that I mean so many people I
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talk to have no idea there was a co-defendant they have no idea Ryan Ferguson was the story and now Ryan
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Ferguson is this the overcoming a wrongful conviction like hero story right and and that was that and yeah he
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had a show on MTV for a little bit that's what the whole show was about which you'd think the first person that
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he would try to help out would be the guy that he knows a hundred percent didn't
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commit a crime yeah and there's there's a lot there um that I don't understand and I've asked
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Charles Lawyers family members you know what has Ryan done to help you or to help Charles
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and it's nothing little to nothing if anything at all other than his original statement when he came out of prison
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where he said Charles Erickson is a lot of things but he's not guilty of this murder and
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then he's kind of moved on with his life I don't know I've never been wrongfully
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convicted by somebody I don't know I'm I I cannot blame him for having so much anger 10 years of his life were stolen
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but Charles is also a victim and I can't imagine not wanting to help this person
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who has been completely forgotten I mean the least you could do is use your platform to say hey don't forget about
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this guy well it makes the whole case pretty confusing because if they're letting this individual out
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and then they're saying he didn't not do this crime then by definition that's the reason why they
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kept going after Ryan Ferguson in the beginning they said well we know that Charles was with you
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so if Charles is saying he was at the crime scene and he killed a man then guess what you were with him
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and so by using their own logic if Ryan is innocent of this crime than by using their own logic so is
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Charles so they just filed a petition for actual innocence in June in June it was denied
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and now they are waiting to file another appeal he confessed to this and that that presents a whole other level of
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issues in trying to get him out yeah they ignored logic when they took his confession they ignored logic when
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they prosecuted Ryan Ferguson and here they are conveniently ignoring logic again could you tell us who Kathleen
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Zellner is for for the for the few listeners because most will know but could you give us a little background on
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Kathleen Zellner yeah so Kathleen Zellner became famous in making a murderer season two she took Stephen
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Avery's case and she is famous for having had a few exonerees she's worked for and or I don't even
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know if I want to say a few I think she's taken 13 cases and and gotten them all out I'm not like an expert on her
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background but I know she has incredible backgrounds and her whole thing is I will not take your case she investigates
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these cases and you know she'll only take a case if she thinks somebody is innocent because she's done the leg work
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well she even goes a little step further because she doesn't even just try to get you off on a technicality
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she's also trying to solve the case herself right and so that's like what I was getting at earlier I mean she has
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found with her investigators much better suspects than Boyd Charles and Ryan obviously two men who
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who later in 2005 committed another very bizarre murder of seemingly random murder and I don't want to you know name
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names right now but I am going to get into this in an episode very soon on my patreon talking with the brother of one
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of these guys Charles's mom she knows a lot about these two and these were two guys that were uncovered by Kathleen's
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investigation so we're thinking that these two guys were indeed these what the eyewitnesses saw this one guy looks
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almost identical to the police sketch to Shayna orange sketch yes so these guys we don't believe we're just walking by
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the scene we believe that these guys were the actual murders yes based on some um their own family saying you know they
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they have made confession statements um based on the fact that they have been tied to I don't I don't want to say
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convicted I know one of them is dead right now um from suicide but tied to another very
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strange random murder of a professor in a very similar situation you know she actually just sent me all these files
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this morning so I haven't like fully dove in but I I'm going to dive in and do an episode on it well and when you
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read about how great of a person Kent was it didn't seem like he had any enemies
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it the the question to me was always which I think made Michael Boyd at least a decent suspect because well he worked
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underneath him so could there be some assignment that he didn't like did he just don't like working under the person
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that would be at least a motive maybe not a good enough motive for murder but other than that what's the motive here
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yeah I mean and that's the thing too with Boyd there was allegedly that argument
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between him and height holds but I mean the murder was so brutal I mean he is strangled with his own belt he is
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bludgeoned it seemed either incredibly personal or incredibly random and Psychopathic and I think with these two
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other suspects it seems that they are serial murderers and it is incredibly psychopathic
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[Music] foreign [Music] did get right that it was a random act of violence and I think it's a weird
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thing with these two persons that are seeing two young white males are seen near the murder scene at the time of the
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murder we know this by these are witnesses here we also know our Witnesses are saying it
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was not Ryan Fergus and he was not one of the people that I saw that night it gets weird though because the the
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statements from the witnesses at times have been that these two individuals who may be
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suspects were saying something like this man needs help so you go okay well maybe
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these are just two people that happened to walk by and see that something horrible went down just minutes ago
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they're doing their best as a good citizen to get help for this individual that they don't know but then the
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problem is they must be suspects I think because you got even two years later before Ryan
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is arrested before Charles is arrested where these people if they witness something they never come forward this
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story is in the news they don't come forward to say I was the person that was walking that night I was the person that
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called out for help I was the person that saw somebody and said we need to get somebody here to help this man to me
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very briefly skimming the surface of these two guys seems like it almost could have been like a facetious kind of
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like we just committed this murder and this guy needs some help and then they walk away not even like an actual Cry
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for Help like hey uh this guy might need some help over here and then they walk away is a possibility this was not a
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robbery gone bad this was I mean they had the opportunity whoever did this judging by the evidence they had the
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opportunity to stop at some point they could have easily they they took this man
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beat him they could have taken whatever possessions he had that they wanted right then and there but whomever did
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this they took it a step further with the belt I mean think about that psychologically to take the belt off the
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victim and then use it to kill the individual well I think they actually strangled him so hard that snapped parts
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of his neck I know the belt broke itself broke yep yeah it was it was vicious violent and I believe that at some point
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regardless of what started the attack at at some point there was a clear intention of Murder By whomever did this
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now you mentioned earlier that there were two persons everybody knows of the witnesses who recant Trump and then we
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have uh Shauna ort who says that Ryan Ferguson was not one of the people that I saw we have Charles Erickson who
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changes his story multiple times it starts off with he and Ryan did this together then it ends up with he did it
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by himself that Ryan may have told him to stop at some point or Ryan witnessed some of it Charles Erickson says he's
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uncertain how much of this crime Ryan would have actually witnessed and then at some point
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Charles's story becomes Ryan didn't do this Ryan didn't witness me doing it either because I didn't do it myself
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right right who who were the two people remind me who were the two people that said hey Ryan Ferguson told us about
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this said that he was involved or talked about it at a party they later changed their story I don't know the details of
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that do we know why they change their story are there are they saying the same thing that crane convinced us to come
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forward with this false information how does their their story change yes so one
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of them he is in prison at the time and or in jail I think he's in jail at the time so he's got a couple charges
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and basically and that's the thing with trunk too that's how they got how crane got Trump trump was on Parole for um
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some kind of sex offense crane came to him and said hey you know I'll give you a deal and whatever whatever if you say
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what I need you to say so here's this other guy jailhouse informant who is striking deals and says uh Ryan
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confessed to me while in prison later he says you know that didn't happen I was making a deal with the
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prosecutor for you know a lesser sentence or charges whatever it is and then the other one is Megan Arthur who
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was at a party she did not say that she heard Ryan she says she thought she heard Ryan say something along these
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lines which it's very possible Ryan was saying yo Charles is being crazy saying we did this so she tells this to the
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police and they basically twist her entire statement and say you know she told us she heard
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Ryan saying this and so both her and the jailhouse informant said none of this happened jailhouse informant says I was
00:27:01
just striking a deal but I actually completely lied or I never confessed to me and Megan Arthur says they completely
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took my words out of context I never said that I heard Ryan confessing I thought I might have heard something and
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I wanted to help with Zellner being involved with Ryan's case has she been giving this information over to
00:27:20
Charles's new lawyer they had in the past I don't think there's been much recently with that because what's next
00:27:29
for Charles yeah yeah he had PL denied recently in July and now they're working on filing another actual
00:27:39
innocence appeal and basically it's on the grounds they're trying to get an evidentiary hearing they can present all
00:27:45
of this evidence all of this prosecutorial law enforcement misconduct if they can present that there is no
00:27:51
evidence if they can get anything further tested you know basically they just want to present their side in front
00:27:58
of a in front of a judge or judges they think it's going to move forward is basically what they have to do and and
00:28:04
they're doing this on the grounds of that Charles had his constitutional rights violated when they knowingly and
00:28:10
willfully got a false statement from him now we know that Charles responded to a
00:28:15
letter that you sent but take us through the process of working with Charles and
00:28:19
putting together your episode what does that typically involve with the individuals that that you are you are
00:28:26
now meeting and presenting their stories I hear from Charles once a week twice a
00:28:31
week you know he's doing a lot in prison he's working with his dog training program he helps rehabilitate dogs and
00:28:39
adopt them out those are like his best friends he said you know again he's in therapies taking medication he's working
00:28:45
on himself he's going to school he's running again which is what he used to do back in high school that's how him
00:28:51
and Ryan actually met so you know when I first started speaking with Charles there was just so much to talk about
00:28:57
because he's doing so much so it was like okay we want to talk about the case we want to get to all this but I also
00:29:03
just want to like hear about you as a person we only hear about this crazy guy with dreamlike memories or snapshots is
00:29:11
what he calls them who is Charles you know what do you do and he is just so smart and has so much to say I could
00:29:18
talk to Charles forever so yeah there was a lot to fit in this one episode and I think we covered a lot of stuff that
00:29:25
wasn't in it but you know with the episode I just really wanted to make clear that there is this other person in
00:29:32
prison and he's a good person and he he was also a victim of all of this yes it very quickly became the free Ryan
00:29:40
Ferguson story and then once Ryan got out everything is just kind of forgotten about as you said Charles Erickson still
00:29:49
in prison the murder of Kent heitolt unsolved no justice for his family no justice for Kent height Holt yeah and I
00:29:58
believe his family is even on the on the pro Ryan and Charles side I mean they think also recognize I'm pretty sure I
00:30:06
did come across a Facebook page that his family runs that that they also believe
00:30:10
that this has not been solved this is a wrongful conviction they want Justice for their loved one he was a father he
00:30:16
had two kids he had a wife they want to know who murdered their dad and it was not Charles and Ryan and they support
00:30:23
them right if you don't get Justice for Charles you will never get Justice for Kent absolutely because it's it's a
00:30:32
closed case it's uh not being investigated any further why are they going to further test DNA evidence when
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we got this guy in prison until Charles is out they are not getting Justice for Kent
00:30:43
Heidel well not only out but technically the conviction vacated right because it's one thing to let him out we've
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actually seen some cases where they let the wrongfully convicted out but never vacate the conviction therefore it's a
00:30:59
closed case technically there's no reason to for the state to investigate West Memphis Three yep yeah with Boyd on
00:31:07
the surface he looks like a good suspect he looks like somebody that we would have would question his actions and some
00:31:13
of his statements but as you said they probably have something that tells them that Boyd is
00:31:22
not their guy it could be the janitors the witnesses saying we saw two younger white males and Boyd doesn't fit that
00:31:31
description but there probably has some kind of physical evidence at the scene the captain pointed out that we have
00:31:39
seven or more unidentified fingerprints there's a bloody palm print bloody Footprints there's hair at the scene
00:31:46
none of this matches Ryan Ferguson we we have that that might be the only honest
00:31:53
words that came out of the prosecutor's mouth at that trial was that we have no physical evidence linking this guy to
00:32:00
the crime you have to wonder if some of that evidence if it doesn't point the void as well you know Zellner was pretty
00:32:07
convinced that they did a really shitty job investigating Boyd and I think he even says they didn't even really
00:32:14
investigate him so I was just thinking like oh well maybe they took some of his uh hair samples and DNA or whatever and
00:32:20
compared it to what was at the crime scene but according to Zellner at least and how she feels the investigation went
00:32:26
I don't actually think that happened um yeah I believe he's only interviewed twice yeah sample was taken I don't
00:32:35
think so either so I don't really know what they had that they did not follow up on him I don't think they did compare
00:32:42
his samples well the most suspicious thing about that is the getting rid of one of his cars and not
00:32:49
really understanding what he did with it or the what he told law enforcement later they figured out was a lie yeah
00:32:58
and like we said there would be so much blood at the scene that you would think if Michael Boyd was involved you'd think
00:33:05
that he would at least saw the two two individuals that people think are involved well I think that becomes part
00:33:12
of the issue that people have with his story because originally he's telling police that he
00:33:18
didn't see and and Maggie correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is he's saying he
00:33:25
didn't see anybody and now when we have two people to pin this on Ryan Ferguson and Charles Erickson then later he's
00:33:33
saying yeah I saw two younger white males at the at the scene is that correct yeah yeah he he was all over the
00:33:41
place it is it is odd and I I you know I I wonder if he's just all over the place
00:33:46
because he knows he's the last person to see him alive and is scared um again he's he's not a white person he's
00:33:55
a person of color like he you know a lot of people that I talk to just instantly
00:33:59
become afraid of the police and that could be why we have the multiple changes in the story again I think there
00:34:06
are much better suspects than than Boyd so you know when I talk I kind of lean towards the it's not void but I do think
00:34:13
it was really shoddy of them to not investigate him further than they did take samples do more than two interviews
00:34:20
you know what do you think the likelihood that uh Charles will make parole in 2023. parole is so hard
00:34:28
because with parole they're not looking at actual innocence um they're looking at do you have
00:34:34
remorse for the crime that you're convicted of Charles didn't do this how is he supposed to show remorse for murdering
00:34:41
somebody when he didn't do this you know and a lot of these people I talked to like JJ Velasquez in in my case he's up
00:34:47
for parole and he's says yeah I'll go in front of the board but I'm not going to
00:34:51
confess to something I didn't do yeah I could walk out of here tomorrow but I my
00:34:56
Integrity is worth so much more than being paroled for something I didn't do and I haven't really
00:35:04
asked Charles but my guess is it would be similar I don't think he has any intention on saying yes I feel bad for
00:35:12
murdering Kent heitles so you're not getting paroled unless you say that and you know I talked to some folks my first
00:35:18
episode episode Jermaine Smothers he's up for parole and I do think he'll get paroled because while he didn't commit
00:35:26
the murder he feels like a lot of actions in his life contributed to this murder he was in a gang lifestyle so he
00:35:34
is going to go in front of the parole board and say like yes I'm remorseful for this because my actions contributed
00:35:39
to it so that is different because what actions did Charles do that that contributed to this murder I mean
00:35:46
nothing so I I don't think he's going to be paroled and the two people that you find interesting for this as good
00:35:54
possible suspects remind me how they came onto the radar so these were um from Kathleen zellner's private
00:36:01
investigators and again I haven't fully you know I have the statements the affidavits from her pis you know
00:36:09
interviewing people who say like yes this person um you know told me this and I I think
00:36:15
the brother even I'm gonna speak with the brother believes his brother did it and and I'm not going to name their
00:36:20
names here yet until I go through everything but um I am going to do an episode about this on my patreon but um
00:36:27
they one of the men at least was linked to the murder of a professor a very brutal murder where he was found stabbed
00:36:38
stuffed in his trunk and the car was lit on fire in a parking garage as he left work
00:36:44
and one of these men was his DNA was linked to the crime scene so to me that sounds very similar to a
00:36:51
random murder of Kent heitoltz I mean there it's the same it's Boone County so the I'm gonna look into this further but
00:36:58
this is something that Zellner uncovered and I do think you know one of these guys at least is
00:37:03
still alive and I know that actually Marianne Erickson has been skeptical about uh saying his name because he's
00:37:13
dangerous and he's out there and this is in 2005. so these are only a couple years apart that this um Professor was
00:37:21
murdered and found burned in his the trunk of his car yeah four years from from Kent so that's the whole point when
00:37:29
you wrongfully incarcerate people when you knowingly I I do not stray away from saying that uh Kevin crane knowingly
00:37:39
incarcerated the wrong people that you leave the real murderers out there and now another innocent person is
00:37:47
dead if these two were the ones that were involved in can't hide Holtz murder and this man looks
00:37:54
just like the police sketch and you're saying that the other the this professor that they believe this individual is
00:38:02
responsible for killing there's no connection between suspect and victim it just appears to be some kind of random
00:38:10
act of violence yeah yeah and and so again I haven't dove into this super far but it looks like this was also a cold
00:38:18
case I mean it happened in 2005 and it looks like you know that he's this name is coming up in 2013 linking him to the
00:38:25
murder so that's how you get away with things is random murder and and I know you guys know we talked about this in
00:38:31
the Mora Murray case when these things are random it's it's really hard to to find the killer there
00:38:38
is a website freecharles erickson.org and there is a reward fund of ten thousand dollars for information
00:38:49
in the case in the unsolved we should say murder case of Kent heith Holt and that money is coming from the Ferguson
00:38:59
family yes so they're working to at least uh help to find more information that could help Charles Erickson or at
00:39:09
least help the investigation for finding the real killer of Kent heitol absolutely yep and like you said
00:39:16
Charles has uh this hearing coming up pretty soon and then a parole Hearing in 2023 I know that you have a group on
00:39:27
Facebook can you tell the listeners a little bit about that so they could follow that for any update in this case
00:39:34
yes so it's the unjust and unsolved podcast Discussion Group Marianne Erickson Charles's mom is in there
00:39:43
almost every if not every unless they don't have an ins unless they don't have a Facebook but every Advocate you've
00:39:49
heard in the episodes every sibling as many investigators as I could get are in there to help answer questions and just
00:39:56
be part of these discussions to help solve solve these crimes to unsolve murder Ken height holds killer is out
00:40:02
there potentially if I said these two guys have killed somebody else so potentially
00:40:08
again killing more people hurting more people everybody always ask where can we find
00:40:22
the music for the show all the music each week is created by me your captain and you can find it it's
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all for free on Apple music Spotify or go to our website and click on the music page Colonel do we have any recommended
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reading for this week how about a little recommended listening make sure that you
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check out the unjust and unsolved podcast featuring our friend who you just heard here today Maggie it's part
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of the True Crime obsessed Network and you can find it wherever you listen to your podcast and come back and see us
00:41:02
next week on Monday we have a new off the record on Tuesday we have a new case until then be good be kind and don't
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