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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always, ladies and gentlemen, Sammy Davis Jr. was a close personal friend of his. Who is he? He's the
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captain. It's just impossible to put this piano up my nose. It's just impossible.
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It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
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Tonight we are drinking Circuit Bohemian Pilsner by the wonderful wonderful people at Tin Man Brewing Company in
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Indiana. Garage Grade three and a half bottle caps out of five. Circuit Bohemian Pilsner sends a thrilling buzz
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to your senses with bright color, clarity, and energizing flavor. And this fantastic Pilsner was brought to us by
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First up, we have John in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma and Amy in Cody, Wyoming. And Jenny from the block in Chicago wants to
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give a shout out to her BFF Bill. This next one here says Here's a beer just for the hot hot captain all the way from
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Moon Daughter in Wales. Well, we like your jib. Next up, we have Casey in Atlanta. We also have Nicole in
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Atlanta. ATL and a big we like your jib to shooter down in Texas with a six-pack of
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the PBR. We also have Star in Green Lake, Wisconsin. You know, Captain, last week
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I was reading an article in the USA Today. Mhm. And it said out of the 20 drunkest cities in the great US of A,
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the great state of Wisconsin has nine nine out of the top 20 drunkest cities in the country. So All right. Everybody
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in parts unknown, step up your drinking game. Wisconsin is beating the pants off
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of us. Next up, in Indianapolis, we have Nicholas who says cheers to Nick and the
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captain. Also in Indianapolis, we have Jamie who says beer money to yourself? That's what's going on, yeah. Um, we
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also have Jamie in Indianapolis who says that she's a garage groupie for life. Hey, hey girl. And also in Indiana, we
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have Jason. Jason is a manager at a diner and he says he often wonders how many of his third shift patrons are
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murderers. Why? I hope not many of them, you silly bastard. It's time for Jason to get out
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of the old restaurant biz, I think. And we really appreciate everybody that's donating to the beer fund. You
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Yeah, pint glasses. Nick designed them. And for those of you that have been following me on Untappd, they're the
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have shirts coming out, right, Captain? Yeah, we have a showing you a couple of shirts.
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Well, we have a logo purple V-neck for the ladies and then we have this like kind of like a dark blue gray logo crew
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that's enough of the business. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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Ann Marie, the autopsies confirmed identities, but how these children were killed, the circumstances surrounding
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their death, police aren't talking about that. They say they don't want to say anything that could jeopardize this
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double homicide investigation. For the second day, local, state, and federal investigators scoured over the
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crime scene. Early afternoon, divers joined the search for clues that could lead detectives to the girls' killer.
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The autopsies confirmed what everyone, including the teens' families, suspected and feared. I think they were in pretty
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much belief that it was their their children. Um but when you hear it from an official,
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it it's it's still a little just still it hits home twice. One of the hundreds of volunteer searchers found
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the bodies of Libby German and Abby Williams in a wooded area near Deer Creek. It is an area accessible only by
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foot or on horse, well off the popular trails the 13-year-olds were hiking. Dozens of police are now checking
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hundreds of leads. We are using resources from all the way from Lowell, Fort Wayne
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and the southern state of the southern part of the state's police state troopers. We will stay on
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the job until it is done. Police say they have no suspects or persons of interest. They're asking
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anyone who was in the hiking area who saw something or heard something or took any pictures contact them. Should people
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in this community be concerned about someone running around targeting kids? My response is is no. I feel safe for
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this community. Libby and Abby, teens teachers describe as happy and go-lucky, attended Delphi's middle school. Crisis
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teams were ready for students and teachers when they arrived at all the district schools. They're just asking
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those questions right now of oh my gosh, it hit me. And somebody's there for them. The
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double homicide has prompted one of the largest investigations some officers say
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they've ever been part of. As far as I'm concerned, yes, there is somebody out there that did this horrendous crime.
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And uh we're going to track him down. Also, police say there is someone out there who probably saw something, was on
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the trails, was driving that part of the country just east of Delphi. They may have seen someone. They may have seen a
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car that perhaps looked out of place. And that's why police want that person to call them. Back to you.
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The homicides of two Delphi teenagers, Liberty German and Abigail Williams, has shocked the community of Carroll County
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and left them on edge as police search for killers or the killer of both. We went through a general timeline of the
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investigation yesterday, but today what we're going to focus on is rumors, speculation, and theories revolving this
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investigation because we have this situation here, Captain, where we're not being told a whole lot of information.
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Mhm. And in my opinion, what's going on right now is we have a manhunt. We're in
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the middle of a manhunt. This is public enemy number one in my opinion. This is who everybody should be looking for.
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This is a very very bad person that we are looking for. One to be very clear. So everything that we're going to be
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talking about is it's all speculative. Mhm. And so take it all with a grain of salt, but it's something that you have
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to look at with this case being you know, open. There's really no suspects in custody. There's nobody charged with
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this crime. So everything that we're going to be talking about from here on out is speculation. So
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if that's not your thing. And you know. And a lot of the information that we will provide today is coming from
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several different sources. It's it's from rumors around the investigation, possible leaks from law enforcement, or
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leaks from reporters. Sometimes reporters see some things that they're asked not to speak about as well as
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searchers volunteer searchers that were involved in this case. Mhm. We also have
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some information from some bloggers, YouTubers, and just kind of collecting everything that's out there to kind of
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get a a sense of what is actually going on in this investigation. Now, regarding
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the investigation itself, of course autopsies were conducted, but a cause of death has not been stated in the case of
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either girl. Mhm. Now, I want to talk about our suspect for a minute. And you know, if
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you hear me say bridge guy, obviously I'm referring to the man in the in the photograph released by police Right.
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guy on the bridge. So yesterday, I failed to mention the possibility of a gun involved in this case. When you look
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at the two pictures of the bridge guy, in one of the pictures, there appears to be a gun on his person. You can see an
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outline of a gun. Um, you know, I've heard other people speculate that the suspect definitely has a pistol. What I
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see what I see is the outline of a gun. It it appears to be a pistol that is holstered on his right side, uh the gun
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pointing backward on his right side, which would mean which would imply he's possibly left-handed.
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Uh, the outline of the pistol, in my opinion, can be clearly seen in one of the photos that was released of the
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bridge man. If the gun is on his right side, what is what does that mean he's left-handed?
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Well, because the the handle would be facing his left, meaning that he would draw it kind of like a sword. You know,
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you you typically would draw a sword from your opposite side. Well, you know, living in Columbus,
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Ohio, I don't have to draw a sword too often. Uh so, that brings us to our first
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question. How were the girls killed? Mhm. And it's thought that they were either strangled uh or that possibly the
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throats may have been cut. According to rumors coming from persons who attended the memorial services for the girls,
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Right. they both had scarves around their neck. So, this would point to both of those causes of death being likely.
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As for the state of the bodies when found, well, I guess someone posted pictures uh on a website. Mhm.
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And this the photos were quickly taken down, but a number of people saw these photos before they were taken down. Some
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of these people being people from Delphi. Yeah, I haven't actually seen these photos myself. I have not either.
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Uh but I've I've heard second-hand reports of what was seen in these photos. Now, from what I've heard, the
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photos showed the two dead girls and the coroner. Uh the person who posted the photo had some text saying that the
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bodies were positioned in an odd way. This has led to the rumor or theory that the that the way that the girls were
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left is some kind of ritual or maybe even something satanic. Right. Satanic panic. Yeah, this this is
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a possibility. Uh you know, just But but also just the killer posing the bodies.
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Serial killers like doing this. They often pose the victim knowing that they will be found. They will pose them in a
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manner for maximum shock value or to further degrade the victim even after death. Well, the girls were found by
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firefighters, correct? Firefighters and volunteer searchers. Right. And so, the rumor was that when the firefighters
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found them that the at least one of the girls' throats were slit so badly that it was almost uh dec- decapitation. Mhm.
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And unfortunately, it probably would lean towards the throat slitting uh because of the scarves. Um I I don't
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know the specifics of it and I'm not going to pretend to, but I would think if it was strangulation that there could
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be makeup or something less obvious uh on on the bodies at the at the services. The thing here is though, we also have a
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a rumor that has persisted for quite some time. Uh this was even before the case uh was released to the media. Uh
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these early rumors coming from family members that Abby survived until the next day. This would be February 14th.
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There were different rumors. Um some of those including that she was found alive
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but died on the way to the hospital or that the coroner said that she had survived the attack but died of
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hypothermia in the woods and that her body might have still been warm when found.
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Now, there's information out there that she may have survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away and then
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passed away. Uh if this is true, of course, you know, we don't know how long she would have
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survived for after the attack. But to me, it might lean more towards strangulation, you know, because we have
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seen several cases that we've covered on this show where somebody will attempt to
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choke someone and they they think that they've completed um the murder and and in fact have not. Well, again, because
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the lack of evidence or the not the lack of evidence but the lack of uh evidence that they're releasing to the
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public, it's really hard to understand what the motive is cuz we don't we don't know if these um
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two girls were sexually assaulted or not. Yeah, and I think that it would be easily assumed that this might be a
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sexually motivated crime or sexually motivated murders. Um you know, but we can't always assume
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that in these cases. The the very first rumors from the family members said that
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both girls had been raped. Uh the the other rumor was that only one was attacked this way.
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There is a new rumor that says that neither girl was raped. And what we are seeing with this rumor instead is that
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both girls would have been could have been sexually mutilated in some way, which of course, this is definitely
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got to be much worse than than the actual sexual attack itself. Right. But that would lead to the satanic panic
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Possibly. theory. Possibly or just a extremely violent offender. Um I don't know which
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of these is a more accurate statement. I do, however, believe that we are dealing
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with a very bad man and an an evil person who easily could have been motivated by any and maybe all of the
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above. Now, yeah, I can't back this with like some source. So, again, bunch of speculation, but
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um a friend of mine that has dove into this case uh quite a bit uh was telling me that in this area
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yeah, it's a small town and 3,000 individuals or so, but one in 60 individuals are sexual offenders in this area.
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A a registered sexual offender. Right. Um I you know, I don't know I don't know if if they were raped or or
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one or the other. Um you know, but you would hope if that were the case that we would have some form of DNA that could
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connect to this guy. Um if if they were just assaulted with an object, then we might
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not be dealing with DNA. Uh if not, then what would be the other possible motives? Well, then you would think that
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somebody was specifically targeting one or both of these girls for some kind of uh
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horrible purpose. Mhm. Now, there there's a rumor out there that's that's catching legs. And
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the thing here is I I almost hesitate to say this because it seems a little far-fetched to me, but I but because
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that's what we're doing here today, I think we should report on it. There there's a rumor that possibly Abby uh
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was pregnant. Uh that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. Now, I've seen We've
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all seen the pictures of her on the bridge. She doesn't appear to be pregnant. She could be in the very early
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stages. However, um I do want to point out that the way that this rumor goes is that
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somebody related to the boyfriend wanted to put an end to this pregnancy and possibly wanted to talk her into an
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abortion or maybe even and I cringe when I say this, even perform some kind of back alley surgery himself. Now, this
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obviously, if we're looking at a suspect that is the man on the bridge, then this
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would be somebody much older than Abby's boyfriend. And you know, his name has been reported. He's I guess he's a
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16-year-old boy. Um but so, this would the thought would be it would be a a father or an uncle or a grand father,
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somebody related to this boy. The problem we're calling him boy because we're not
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going to release this individual's names cuz again, it's just rumors. No, because
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and more more than likely, in my opinion, he's probably a victim because he lost his girlfriend. He lost friends
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close to him. So, it's we're it's not necessary to state his name. The thing here is though, Captain, you would think
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that if this theory Mhm. if it if it really if it was a it was a hard concrete theory that that that had some ground,
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you would think that that your suspect pool shrinks immediately. You know, we we would be looking at a small group of
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people and we have the picture of the guy. We have the audio. Now, mind you, the picture is not clear. The audio is
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not super clear. However, I think if you're really looking at three or four people, you could pick one amongst those
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that best look like this guy. Right. Uh I agree with you and and also, yeah, those aren't clear, but we also don't
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know what else they have. I mean, do they have 6 minutes of video? Do they have 40 minutes of audio?
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Uh basically, based off the interview from the sheriff is you don't want to hear this audio
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that they have. Mhm. Which, you know, leads me to believe that this is an audio recording of the actual
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murders. Yeah, that that some or all of the attack took place on the video or audio. The thing here is too, Captain,
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but you would think if it was somebody that knew either of the girls or both of the girls, Mhm. if they didn't know they
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were being recorded, they would probably they might even refer to them by name, which would be somewhat of a lead, I
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would think. Uh you know, how how would a stranger just know their names unless he makes them tell them. Or Yeah, which
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he might not actually have that part on audio, you know. There there might not be footage of the
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guy asking their names. And I don't know the dynamics of this young man's family,
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of the boyfriend's family, but I know with my circle of friends, I've I've had friends that have been around for 15, 20
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years. I might know their parents, but I don't know their grandparents or their uncles. Uh
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what I'm getting at here is the reverse of if the suspect knew the victims' names, if it were somebody somewhat
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close to their circle, there's a chance the victims could have known his name. And obviously, if if they heard a first
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name on there, that again, suspect pool much smaller. We still have nobody arrested. So, I don't think that's for
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me why this theory doesn't hold a lot of weight. And what's your take on this idea that the girls were actually moved?
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Like that they were um So, basically, the rumor is that the search team searched that area. Mhm. And there's a
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lot of claims that well, we searched that area on the Monday and they weren't there. So, that they're either somewhere
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else, the crime scene maybe took place somewhere else and they were just dumped in that that spot or that the crime
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scene actually took place in that spot and was moved and then they were taken back. Well, the thing here is like you
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said, there's been these rumors stemming from the search party. And remember, a lot of these people are adamant that
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they searched that very area on the 13th and then they're found there on the 14th.
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Right. When you and I were talking about this, you brought up a very good point.
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This is February. The search wouldn't have started until 5:30 or so. Right. And it's very possibly that it could be
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dark by the time they started that search. Now, I don't want to say that they didn't try their hardest or their
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darndest. Um I believe that they did. If they say they searched that area and they think that it was super thorough,
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I'm going to go with that. I could also be talked into believing that they might
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that they might have missed it because it was dark. I could be talked into uh It was dark.
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Yeah, I look, I think people sometimes are mistaken. We see that time and time again with eyewitnesses, you know. Uh I
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I don't believe and look, again, they're holding back so much evidence. I don't know if there's any evidence that they
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were moved. Well, the thing here is and I'll point to a bit of a theory that I have.
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Um I think Lay it on me, Colonel. I think that this is possibly a sexually motivated crime, sexually motivated
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murders. Mhm. So, if that's the case, I believe that this maniac, whatever he was trying
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to achieve, whatever whatever he wanted to do, he would need a little bit of privacy and he would want a little bit
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of time and that they would have been taken to a nearby structure. I don't I don't really see a situation where
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somebody you know, put them in a vehicle and drove them far away just to return them
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later. That seems too unlikely. It seems too too much of for this guy to get caught. Um so, I think that if he would
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have taken them to a nearby structure, that that would have provided him with both a little bit of privacy and a
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little bit of time. Now, it did look like at some point in this investigation that law enforcement was working with
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that idea. Um they they might have been removed and then later returned and dumped at this
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site. So, this would mean that they would have had to have been returned after 2:30 a.m. When all of the
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searchers left and most likely before daylight the next day, sun up would have been around 7:00 a.m. Right. So, the
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killer returned the girls, according to my theory, to the forest where near where they were abducted somehow. If he
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if he had somewhere close to take them, this might not have been very difficult for him to do. Well, and there was some
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roads that were leading that way cuz I guess there's some roads through the cemetery that's close that you could
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take that would help you get back to the area where the bodies were found. Now, one place that police were searching.
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Now, this is a structure, it's a it's I'll call it a barn cuz that's what it looks like to me, but it's been referred
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to in newspaper articles as a structure. This is a barn with with three structure. with
00:23:02
three big openings and I believe that it's located across the street from Ron Logan's property. Remember, we discussed
00:23:08
Ron Logan yesterday, his property kind of meets up with the area that the girls were hiking. Now, the distance from this
00:23:15
barn to the beginning of the trail where where they would have been replaced is approximately about 200
00:23:24
yards. Is but that's what it's been reported Okay, so two football fields. Yes. This
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could be where he took where he took them. Mhm. Uh to this barn. The now, what I've heard about
00:23:37
this barn is that a person there would have had a perfect view of the area. Uh he would be able to
00:23:43
determine when the searches had stopped. So, he possibly knew when the searches stopped at 2:30 a.m. He then returned
00:23:51
them sometime between 2:30 and 7:00 a.m. that morning. There is photos of police
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with dogs searching this barn. The barn that I just described. This was reported, but the media reports got it
00:24:05
wrong. This is where they stated that they were searching Ron Logan's property again, searching his land. And in fact,
00:24:12
it was land across the street, this belonging to the Meers family, which is like I said, just across the street. But
00:24:19
the thing here is regarding the structure it's about 50 I think it's 50 yards off of the road.
00:24:28
Okay. The way that it's been reported to me is that if you were standing at the road, you would not be able to see very
00:24:35
far into this barn. You would only be able to see a couple feet into it. Now, mind you, on top of that, between 5:30
00:24:42
p.m. and 2:30 a.m., it's going to be very dark. I've heard that it's so dark inside this barn that you could have
00:24:50
placed a vehicle in there during daylight hours and the vehicle itself not be able to be seen. Well, and so the
00:24:56
the the theory that they were moved kind of lends themselves to a lot of people then say, well, if they were moved
00:25:03
because these searchers claim that they searched this area and they weren't there.
00:25:08
Which again, I think it could just be a simple mistake. That therefore, there's multiple
00:25:14
killers. Because this is a 13 or 14-year-old uh teenage girl and they're to be able to
00:25:21
physically move them. Which I would argue, you know, this is a rural area that maybe there's a ATV or something
00:25:27
like that or you could put somebody in a truck or something like that, but uh I'm going to go back with the So,
00:25:35
let's just address this. Killer or killers. The reason why I lean towards a single person is one,
00:25:43
we got a picture of a single person. Right. And they claim that that's a suspect. This is a guy that we need to
00:25:48
talk to. Also, the interview with the sheriff uh when he's answering he keeps answering as killer
00:25:58
and then almost dismisses the multi, you know, multiple person theory. Mhm. Um you'd have to listen to it to
00:26:06
get the vibe, but that's the vibe I got. And so, I think if if the sheriff is saying, hey
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and again it's it's the 6 minutes of video or 40 minutes of audio that he knows that I
00:26:20
don't know. Mhm. And so, to me, with all his knowledge and with all that they're
00:26:25
holding to the vest, he's pointing towards one individual. And I think I've I you know, I've seen footage of of
00:26:32
different interviews with him and I think at least twice I've seen him uh try and like almost catch himself and
00:26:38
then say Right. or killers. You know, there's a long pause and then he goes, or killers.
00:26:42
Right. And I think a lot of that has to come down to they need people to come forward. They need they still need tips.
00:26:50
You know, we're sitting here talking about this case and we're talking about speculation. They're still wait 10,000
00:26:55
tips. They're still waiting on the tip that's going to close this case and bring this madman to justice.
00:27:01
Well, there's a couple things. One, uh it's I it's like a back and forth thing. First of all, with law enforcement, I I
00:27:08
I applaud you cuz that you want to hold it everything close to the chest so that
00:27:12
you can get a conviction of this animal. Like, damn it, got to stop calling them
00:27:17
animals. Monster, right? Yep. Of this monster, sick individual. This guy's a piece of [ __ ] Mhm. Right?
00:27:24
That's That's what we do know. This is a 13 and 14-year-old girl. You are a piece
00:27:29
of [ __ ] man. And but law enforcement, I understand you want to keep it keep it close to the chest so that maybe
00:27:37
you can get a conviction. But I think what law enforcement needs to understand that the
00:27:41
armchair detective community, web sleuth community if this guy is a traveler you have strength in numbers and there
00:27:49
are a lot of smart I mean, just doing this show for what, 110 episodes the amount of individuals that we have
00:27:57
met that know so much about this stuff. Well, and to further touch upon the point whether they were moved or not,
00:28:03
there there's a an additional rumor. And this is might be stemming from the searchers as well. The rumor is that the
00:28:10
searchers followed drag marks, presumably left by the girls to the site. Um now, this would mean that if if
00:28:19
the person used the barn and they they did drag the girls off that trail to leave them
00:28:26
um we're looking at a situation where the killer drove down the road, this would be the road from the barn to the
00:28:32
cemetery, and then drove past the cemetery, then through the southeast gate. This would have put him on Ron
00:28:40
Logan's land for very small bit of time. He would have to kind of cross over his
00:28:44
land and then went to the trail where he dragged the bodies. Now, it's not inconceivable because if he did in fact
00:28:53
have a gun, if that outline that we see that that appears to be a gun, he might have been able to control them. If he
00:29:00
was well planned or well equipped, we talked about a fanny pack or a deer kit, there's a chance he might have had zip
00:29:07
ties or something to gain control and could have put them in a vehicle and quickly transported them to that
00:29:13
structure that we just discussed. Wow, I'm getting pretty fired up. Let's get right back to this after a quick
00:29:18
beer break. All right, we're back. Cheers, mates. The other question that we have now,
00:29:38
Captain, is was DNA recovered from the crime scene. Uh which there has been conflicting information about the DNA
00:29:46
collected at the crime scene. Some reports there there was no DNA. Other reports stating there is DNA, but there
00:29:53
is no match to any known person. Another says that the DNA that came back is that
00:29:59
of Ivan Bromberg. Uh this is a man that was involved in the search and he is one
00:30:04
of the people that found the bodies. However, in this situation, it would simply just be weak touch DNA
00:30:12
um that was found. Yeah. Yeah. Possible, but you know, interesting thing uh I have a friend that's kind of
00:30:20
spiritual. Mhm. And I don't want to get into it too much. Uh has feelings um if that makes any sense. Nope.
00:30:30
Um she just gets feelings or vibes about certain things. And one of the things as
00:30:36
she was researching this case, and she's researched this case a lot, she believes the individual
00:30:42
that is responsible for this crime was a there. Was involved in the search? Yeah. The following day.
00:30:48
which would make a lot of sense when you think, well, maybe the day of and the day the next day.
00:30:54
Mhm. And you know, which would make some sense. You We're talking about a very small
00:30:59
community of 3,000. That's pretty small. Mhm. So Well, feeling or not, that you know,
00:31:08
that doesn't really matter. The thing here is, you know, usually the person that finds a body is usually considered
00:31:15
a suspect. That's one of the first people that police want to talk to. You know, they're kind of lumped into that
00:31:20
group of people with like family members and people close to the victim. They're
00:31:24
they're put right in that center circle of the investigation right from the get-go. You have a different situation
00:31:30
here because multiple people found these bodies. And in the situations I'm talking about, it's would be where one
00:31:38
person stumbles upon Right. Right. Right. This situation though, I do want to be
00:31:42
very clear about this. I would because we we use stated his name. I want to be very clear that that this Mr. Bromberg
00:31:51
um has not been listed as a suspect. Well, and first of all, and second of all, he has stated that when they found
00:31:58
the bodies, they There were other people there that he did touch the bodies when
00:32:03
they were found. Right. Uh yeah. Okay, number one, don't touch the bodies. That's the rule.
00:32:10
Second, uh Unless they're not Unless it's not obvious that, you know, if when you're
00:32:16
searching, it's it typically it's search and rescue. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:32:21
You don't know that you're looking for a dead person at that point. And and Don't touch the bodies, okay? I can
00:32:29
agree with that, but what I'm stating is that I think that it's natural for some
00:32:32
people. I'm coming to Mr. Bromberg's defense here. Is that No, I'm not. Don't touch the bodies.
00:32:38
It In some situations, you you think that there's still chance at hope, there's still chance at life, and you
00:32:45
you go to search and rescue. Yeah, don't touch the bodies. Um anyways, but that's what makes me
00:32:51
believe that this there was a sexual assault. Because we have DNA of this guy finding them, but yeah, there was other
00:32:59
individuals around, but we have DNA of this individual on the victims. According to rumors. Right, but we're
00:33:06
going to dismiss that anyways because there was a sexual assault. That's my gut feeling there. That's your That's
00:33:13
your opinion, yes. But kind of just, you know, to to clear this up because the options are was there DNA? There wasn't
00:33:19
any DNA. Uh well, one thing we can go ahead and check off our list is that if there was
00:33:25
DNA found at the scene, it doesn't match any known person to them because Yeah. uh you know,
00:33:33
they would have arrested this person by now. We would We would be aware with the
00:33:36
way that the eyes are on this case and the rumors coming out, I think I think we would have been aware.
00:33:42
Colonel, don't be so naive here, right? So, as far as registered sex offenders in the United States, right? Mhm.
00:33:50
Uh yeah, I'm just I'm going to give broad numbers. Now, a lot of this is coming from the National Center for
00:33:55
Missing and Exploited Children, but registered sex offenders, you're looking at about 750,000.
00:34:01
Okay. Out of those 750,000, now, a big point that you brought up, and I'm not even clear on the answer, is
00:34:10
are certain sex are certain sex offenders do they have to register their DNA? And I think that
00:34:17
holds true in some states and in some areas. I don't know that it holds true for all areas. Right, but the
00:34:24
that what I'm saying is if they do have DNA, that doesn't mean that it necessarily
00:34:29
doesn't match somebody. Now, I would I would favor the idea that if it did match somebody,
00:34:35
that And here's where I'm going with this. Okay. Out of the 700 You You want to get freaked out right now?
00:34:42
You want to go run and find your kids and lock them up? Because you know how many of those 750,000,
00:34:49
which is up almost 150,000 from 10 years ago. You know how many of those people are
00:34:56
missing? I do not. Anywhere from the Well, they say zero to over 100,000. That's a lot of missing sex offenders.
00:35:10
And so but but I get but the point is is if they did have DNA and if it did match
00:35:15
somebody, you're saying even if they they were to find the person. but even if they're a missing, you would
00:35:22
you would think that they would come out and say, well, here's the guy's uh photo and this is
00:35:27
known address, here's his last known license plate, you know, everything we know about the guy. This is the dude.
00:35:33
Right. But possibly not. I think it's well a bug. The next thing on our list here, Captain, is was
00:35:40
evidence destroyed or what evidence was found at the Destroyed Destroyed by the uh the
00:35:46
attacker, by the murderer? Yeah, or or discarded in another place other than where the bodies were found.
00:35:53
Well, let's talk about the obvious one, the phone. Right. There's been a big huge question about the phone. Well, my
00:35:58
personal feelings are my Yeah, my personal feelings. What is this, like therapy?
00:36:05
Um my thoughts on this are pretty simple. I think the individual probably took the
00:36:10
phone with them, probably threw the phone in a a river or wherever. Mhm. Uh and the law enforcement got a break
00:36:20
in solving this case, got a break with the technology of the cloud. Mhm. And I think you're right because the other
00:36:27
theory would be that if the phone in fact was not recovered, that if the killer didn't do something with the
00:36:32
phone, then Liberty would have got rid of the phone to try to hide her recordings. Mhm.
00:36:39
Uh it I think that, you know, I understand that we're searching the woods here, but I think that it would
00:36:44
have been found had she dropped it somewhere on purpose or a big area, but it somewhere on purpose. I think if it's
00:36:53
not been recovered, you're looking at a situation where the killer did something
00:36:56
with the actual phone. Now, there was also a rumor that footprints were found at the scene.
00:37:02
Of course, this would make sense, you know, the the bridge guy that we see, he appears to be wearing some type of, you
00:37:08
know, he of course he's wearing shoes, but they might be outdoor boots or some form of boots. Um And law enforcement
00:37:16
had some boots in an evidence bag just a few days after the killings. Now, they said that the boots had nothing to do
00:37:23
with the crime. I personally doubt that this is true. But they say that a lot. Right. I I What I would have to guess
00:37:30
probably happened is if they did, you know, they wouldn't have recovered I don't expect them to recover boots from
00:37:36
the crime scene. That would make little to no sense. It's more likely that law enforcement matched the footprints that
00:37:43
were found at the crime scene to a specific type and size of boot, and they went out and acquired that exact type
00:37:50
and size of boot. Well, there's some rumors about the girls' clothes as well. Yeah, the rumor
00:37:56
from reporters at the scene indicate that the girls' clothing was found in the creek. This to me would make a lot
00:38:03
of sense, especially if this is a sexually motivated crime. This guy is horrible enough, he's not going to
00:38:09
bother to clothe them afterward. And second of all, he's probably wanting to get rid of DNA the best that he can.
00:38:18
With we don't know how much time he had to do that. But the thing is, the bodies
00:38:22
were found according to the press conference. The bodies were found near water. I I almost wonder if they were
00:38:30
found in the water if one of them was found in the water because they would have been near the creek. If you look at
00:38:36
a a map of where the bodies were found, they put the dot basically right on what
00:38:41
appears to be the creek itself. Mhm. Now, if they regardless if they were found in the water or out of it, they
00:38:47
were found near, and therefore it would have been very easy for the killer to then throw the clothing in the water.
00:38:54
Well, it also makes sense with the rumor of the hypothermia. One girl surviving the actual attack, but dying from
00:39:01
hypothermia. If they were in water, yeah, it was it was February, but it was abnormally warm. But when you're, you
00:39:09
know, if you were in the water and then out of the water, attacked, hypothermia would probably more likely set in than I
00:39:18
would assume. Well, I think it's time to address the elephant in the room here, Captain, because
00:39:22
old guy in the room. Yeah. Or the old guy on his property. Or the old guy in prison. Well, yeah.
00:39:28
it's the more accurate statement. So, we have Ron Logan. He's been He's been And I I I would say in the public eye,
00:39:35
it appears to me from from what I'm reading, from what I'm seeing, that it's generally thought that he's should be
00:39:42
the prime suspect in this case. So, I think we should look at him Well, I know from two different angles. We should
00:39:48
look at why, you know, is he an actual suspect or is he covering for somebody or did he just have the bad luck of the
00:39:57
bodies being placed on his land? let's make it simpler though. Why why would he be a suspect and why he
00:40:04
wouldn't? So, let's start with why he would. And I was talking to a a great armchair detective. Eventually, this guy
00:40:11
will write books that and you'll read them and you'll be fascinated with this this individual. I call him the coach.
00:40:17
Talking to the coach, he was saying the thing about Ron Logan and we just like to call him Logan. Thing about
00:40:24
Logan that makes it's the A to B answer. Where the where are the girls found? On Logan's property. Right. Um now
00:40:34
and then we have a shaky alibi. Mhm. Right. He states, "Well, I went to pick up some zac fish.
00:40:40
I went to the dump. Uh and he was supposedly seen day drinking at some restaurant.
00:40:48
Right. So, his alibi is a little shaky, but I think that some of that probably does check
00:40:53
out. Uh Well, what the other thing too where the public has has got him targeted is that
00:41:02
you have people stating that he looks like the photograph of the bridge guy, that he sounds like the audio that they
00:41:10
recovered from the phone. Now, the thing here is you and I looked at both because Ron
00:41:15
Logan, you can if you Google or do any type of search at all, you can find him very quickly. He he talked to several
00:41:22
reporters. It shows him walking the property with the reporters. The one thing that surprised me though, this guy
00:41:28
is like 77 years old. And my first thought, and I know I apologized everybody out there to the older
00:41:35
community, and I know that that you have both ends of the spectrum, right? I know
00:41:40
people in their 70s that can do a 100 push-ups and I know people in their 70s that aren't getting around very good
00:41:45
these days. But in as far as Ron Logan appears in the interviews with these reporters,
00:41:51
he's walking up and down steep hills with them. He seems to have no problem. He seems to be in good physical
00:41:57
condition for his age. So, my immediate thought was a 77-year-old man, no, not likely. But then when you see him easily
00:42:06
maneuvering these these hills and and such, then you think, "Well, okay." And then it's been pointed out, "Well, in
00:42:12
some of these interviews, he's wearing a similar getup to the guy to the bridge guy." Yeah, but everybody in that area
00:42:17
has similar getups. But the other thing that's interesting that the coach pointed out, which I never even thought
00:42:23
of before, is that the picture of the guy on the bridge has a demeanor as you know, like hunched
00:42:29
over, rolled shoulders, Mhm. possibly, you know, you got to look at the ground anyways because
00:42:36
uh And now some people would say, "Well, that's a a sign of maybe he was intoxicated, that this individual was
00:42:43
intoxicated. You have to look down at that bridge because if you don't, you're going to fall off the damn bridge."
00:42:49
rails on that bridge? No. You're looking down as you're walking on that bridge. Nobody wants to be the one guy that
00:42:55
every so many years trips off the edge of the bridge. Right. And the thing too is your foot
00:43:00
could go within some of the planks and stuff like that. So, but the coach said he the guy in the
00:43:06
picture kind of looks maybe intoxicated. I didn't really notice it before. Um but
00:43:12
but looking at it now, I can see that. So, that would be another uh point against Logan. Mhm.
00:43:20
Uh the other thing too, yeah, but but not to get too far away from the outfit because I think you just quickly
00:43:26
dismissed it. When you say everybody out there has that same kind of outfit, what
00:43:30
you mean by that is you and I watched other interviews with other residents and they seem to have
00:43:35
They all have the same outfit. They have a hoodie Let's talk about the outfit. It's not like a crazy outfit that you
00:43:41
wouldn't be used to seeing. The guy is wearing what appears to be blue jeans. Everybody wears blue jeans. And he's
00:43:47
wearing like a like a blue type coat or jacket. To me, the with it doesn't appear to have any type of logo on it
00:43:55
that I could see. Mhm. But to me, it looked like something I would be used to seeing like utility workers wear or
00:44:02
maybe even possible um construction guys would wear in the colder months. It's not an uncommon jacket or coat.
00:44:10
Right. Yeah, it's not like the the the suspect's walking around with a romper on.
00:44:13
Mhm. And personally, I didn't think that Ron Logan sounded anything like the the
00:44:20
short Now, mind you, we only heard three or four words. Three words. Three words.
00:44:24
Down the hill. He didn't sound anything to me like that audio. That was just my ears.
00:44:29
Uh cuz uh Logan has kind of a a sh when he talks. Right. Uh what's that guy from uh is it Family
00:44:36
Guy? Mhm. Uh the guy that says "Grandpa, let's talk just like I know what you're talking about. I can't
00:44:43
Um but yeah, he kind of has this uh whistle to him. The other thing too, Captain, is that it
00:44:52
you know, if if the guy that I watched on CNN, you know, this expert quote unquote expert who said that he believed
00:45:00
that the person was somewhere between 40 and 50 years old, you know, I said that
00:45:04
law enforcement, it appeared that they were going with that as their kind of age range from what they saw. And mind
00:45:11
you, they've seen more than I have. Right. I said yesterday I felt the guy was slightly older, but I don't see a
00:45:17
77-year-old man. I feel like I'm looking at a 45-to-55-year-old guy. Yeah, I I can see that. Uh so,
00:45:24
another point against Logan is like I said, if you look at the Snapchat picture,
00:45:30
looking down the Now, I said it looks like possibly there's a vehicle and two people in front of it. Now, look, I did
00:45:36
a little more research and I understand fully that those are not people in the picture. There's actually um these posts
00:45:43
that are set up. They're red posts and it's basically so people can't drive a ATV or any kind of vehicle onto the
00:45:51
bridge. Right. So, that's what you're seeing in front. But what I see behind those posts to me
00:45:57
is a white truck. Okay. So, now let's get into this a little bit because Ron Logan was not supposed to be
00:46:04
driving. Correct. So, he gets arrested for this. They also do a raid and they actually do a search on his property.
00:46:11
Now, the interesting thing here is I believe that it looks like a white truck, possibly a white truck that has a
00:46:18
utility back on it. So, an interesting thing about Logan is uh he had a car when they did the search
00:46:26
um on his property. He had a car that was impounded or a truck that was impounded, which is white
00:46:33
and has a utility back on it. Mhm. So, I I find that kind of interesting. I also
00:46:38
find it interesting that he's being charged with about 4 years. Now, he'll probably only serve two,
00:46:44
but seems like a very high sentence for a DUI. It does. I I've heard from several
00:46:52
people that that this was not his first DUI. Um I want to go on record stating that's just what I've heard. Uh I've not
00:47:00
Mhm. reviewed any police records for Ron Logan. But I've heard that they're being
00:47:04
extra uh strict about that his probation violations for a couple of reasons. One,
00:47:11
it wasn't his first driving offense. And two, we have a situation here where he wasn't fully honest with with the police
00:47:19
and with the sheriff's department. Now, a lot of people will say that, "You know
00:47:23
what? He was charged with that and he was being held for so long because he is actually a suspect in these murders." Uh
00:47:30
just to be clear here, he wasn't supposed to be driving, he was not supposed to be drinking. Those were That
00:47:36
was part of his probation. Mhm. Um what we do learn is not only was he potentially buying these tropical
00:47:43
fish somewhere, but then we learned later that he went to the city dump. Now, immediately, that puts up some red flags
00:47:51
because people were like, "Well, he's probably getting rid of evidence." Right. From what I've been hearing, he
00:47:56
went to the city dump hours before they went missing. So, there was no evidence to discard at that time. And
00:48:03
furthermore, where I think that he's getting this uh probation violation conviction from is that I have heard
00:48:11
that there is surveillance footage of him at a restaurant and I believe it might be a Pizza King. Um If you haven't
00:48:18
had Pizza King, ooh, delicious. Well, and I should throw out there too. I think, you know, one of the local
00:48:24
Pizza Kings, I don't know if this was the one that Ron was at, but one of them was part of donating money towards the
00:48:29
reward Right. But it's a town of 3,000. How many Pizza Kings do you need? Well, it doesn't have to be
00:48:36
specifically from that town. People donated money from all over the United States. The thing here is though,
00:48:42
if this rumor is true, and I feel my gut tells me that it is, that they got surveillance footage of basically what
00:48:50
is an old man sitting drinking beers for quite some time during the course of that day. There's a chance that he might
00:48:59
not have been home anytime from about 10:00 a.m. until after 5:30 that evening. Right.
00:49:06
Um which would make if you're looking for a single person and you think that there's only one person involved, that
00:49:12
would mean Ron Logan has to come off of your list. Right. Uh I I there's a bunch of other stuff. I mean,
00:49:20
he talks about his son and people want to know if was his son involved, is Ron covering up for his son.
00:49:27
Uh we could spend a whole hour on this Logan character. Mhm. I think what it comes down to is when they did arrest
00:49:36
him, the sheriffs come out and say "Hey, don't don't read into this too much." And I And I think sometimes they're just
00:49:45
doing that to throw people off the trail or whatever. But they're like, "Don't read into this
00:49:49
too much. Uh you know, he is not a suspect." That's what they say, right? Right.
00:49:55
And so And we were saying, "Well, why would you say that?" Well, you know, because
00:50:01
if he was a suspect, then who cares, right? Mhm. You just tell the public, "Yeah,
00:50:05
well, we got him on this charge, but he's a suspect in these murders." But we think that he possib- They
00:50:11
They're possibly saying that because when he is in jail, that they need to say that so the
00:50:17
inmates don't think that this guy is a child killer. is a child killer. Right. Yeah, and you
00:50:23
I mean, he I believe he pled guilty to those charges, and that could have been a part of his plea agreement with them.
00:50:30
Um the thing here is though, you brought up his son. Now, we don't know anything
00:50:34
about Ron Logan's son at all. So, of course, uh not a suspect, but the thing here is
00:50:40
I you know, if you just do the quick math in your head, a 77-year-old man would It's very likely he has a son that
00:50:46
fits the age range of the bridge guy. Yeah, and so again, what's his motive? I mean, we got a 77-year-old man that has
00:50:55
no priors as far as, you know, sexual assaults or rape or or anything. So, that doesn't make a lot of sense. To
00:51:02
me, this is not a first-time offender. This is not somebody's, you know, first time murdering anybody. So,
00:51:08
that's kind of weird to me. The other people say, "Well, the motive is that he was tired of these teenagers coming onto
00:51:16
his property." Again, when he's given these interviews, he's time and time again says,
00:51:21
"This is a nice trail to walk on. This is nice for people people to be on." Again, you could just be lying.
00:51:28
Um I don't get a um uh bad vibe from him when he's talking. I don't have this vibe of this guy is a
00:51:35
horrible, you know, douche canoe or anything, but I think But that That's not to say that this guy
00:51:43
is not some mean, angry drunk, either. Mhm. Um Well, let's let's explore that for a second. Because if this were the
00:51:53
trial of Ron Logan, okay, and we had to put forth character witnesses, one would
00:52:00
suspect that you could put forward that Oh, he lied about his whereabouts. Right. to the police. Establishing an
00:52:06
alibi. That's That suggests that he has bad character. He lied to the police. He
00:52:11
didn't come forward and say, "I was at a bar and drinking that day, and yes, I drove my car, even though I wasn't
00:52:17
supposed to." He didn't come forward and say that. So, that puts him in bad character. If we want to present a
00:52:22
character witness on the opposite end, well, his ex-wife, uh who does not like Ron at all, and to put
00:52:31
it very politely, she obviously has a very low opinion of Ron. But it sounds like I'm
00:52:39
building a case against him. The thing here is though, she has stated time and time again, "I've known this man for a
00:52:44
very long time. I don't feel he has anything to do with this. This guy does is not capable of such a horrible act."
00:52:54
Yeah, and on top of on top of all that stuff, too, if there was DNA evidence left behind, I believe
00:53:00
this was sexually motivated crime. If it was a sexually motivated crime, we probably have DNA.
00:53:06
If they thought this is as simple of an A to B answer, if law enforcement thought that, and not just law
00:53:11
enforcement, I understand that it's a very small town, but you have to remember that the FBI was involved. And
00:53:17
when the FBI gets involved, and then they start putting up uh billboards all over the the states, you know, 48 states
00:53:24
or something like that, the the FBI is no dummies. If they thought that uh Logan was their guy,
00:53:32
then it would have been uh shut up already. Mhm. He would already be uh spending the rest
00:53:38
of his life in jail. So, I don't believe that. That brings us to the the other big question here or the other big
00:53:44
theory that's been talked about a lot, is this Is this person even local? And I'm just going to start off by saying
00:53:51
the interview with the local man and the sheriff, to me, is very telling of a lot
00:53:56
of things. But you have two individuals that say, "I I thought that we'd get a bite on something, that we'd get some
00:54:03
good information once the picture was released." And once the picture was re- released, the man giving the interview
00:54:10
and the sheriff both stated, "We We've never seen this guy before." Right. So, uh to me, that's leaning to the idea
00:54:18
that this is an out of out of town killer. And for those of of you that live in very big cities, um
00:54:25
it might not be able to fully grasp this this thought. You know, this guy, the sheriff in
00:54:32
Carroll County, um you know, 3,000 people, however many, it's a small populated area.
00:54:39
He knows or knows about just about everybody. You know, here's the thing. Usually when when a crime is committed
00:54:46
in a smaller town, it's it's actually easier to solve in some manners, okay? Sometimes they don't have the technology
00:54:54
that the big cities would have that that help the big city police. Right. But what they do have is if somebody
00:55:00
broke into a home, killed somebody, and then left, well, the sheriff, he knows, "You know what? I know these four five
00:55:07
guys that they're always breaking into homes. I'm going to go talk to them first." That's where I'm getting at with
00:55:13
this, and I think the captain's hit on something here. Uh it's weird to me. Is the guy local or or not local? It's
00:55:19
weird to me because you would think that somebody would have to have a certain amount of knowledge about the area. Um
00:55:26
however, I think that somebody could achieve this one of two ways and not be a local person. Maybe they grew up
00:55:33
there, and they've moved away in their adult life, and returned for some reason, or returned for the sole purpose
00:55:39
of committing a horrible crime like this. Or two, could this person have arrived in town
00:55:46
several days before and scouted out the area, and kind of formed a a general plan of what he wanted to do?
00:55:54
Yeah, possibly, but it would be hard for them to know that there was parent-teacher conferences on a Monday,
00:56:00
and that school would be left out let out halfway through the day. Right, and that brings us to the good question of
00:56:08
was this a planned attack, or was it a crime of opportunity? Well, and let's talk about something. We haven't really
00:56:13
brought this up, and I'm just going to It's been called the meat packing place. It's been called a bunch of different
00:56:19
names. I'm just going to call it the packing place. Not far from this location, there is a
00:56:23
packing place. Now, the interesting thing here is that you have trucks coming in and out of
00:56:29
this. So, you have your core set of workers, you have your truck drivers coming in and out, and they do hire
00:56:34
sexual sexual offenders. Now, that doesn't mean a lot, cuz I think you would know the people that are
00:56:41
in the area, or if they worked out of town, I'm sure that they were, you know, looked into at some point. Mhm. Uh but
00:56:49
what is really interesting is the rumor is that this place was raided by the IRS. Now, I think that was probably a
00:56:55
cover-up, and it it the FBI was probably involved somehow. Mhm. Um but I think they did that in order to get records of
00:57:04
other trucking companies that they worked with. And again, I think that's This makes
00:57:10
sense. It makes sense as far as the investigation goes. It makes tons of sense, and a couple
00:57:15
things. Then, I still think this crime was uh sexually motivated. I think it was opportunity, and I think
00:57:24
that it was somebody from out of town, hence the 40 uh you know, states having billboards
00:57:29
everywhere. Yeah, I I'm with you on that. It You know, having the billboards in multiple states, that's not a cheap
00:57:36
thing to do. Um it's great that they did it, and I applaud them for that. Uh the
00:57:41
thing here is though, for me, the local or not local thing, I have to factor in whether I think that this is a
00:57:51
planned attack or not. Um you know, and we have a situation where there was a inter- an interview
00:57:57
conducted by the FBI. Now, this was an interview with a man who owned property on the south side of the creek.
00:58:04
Mhm. Um he was asked about his guns, his vehicles, and whether or not they had any outbuildings. Now, this could just
00:58:13
be a matter of general questioning that they're applying to everybody, or it could mean that they believe that A, a
00:58:20
gun was involved in this crime, a vehicle was involved, and an outbuilding was involved. And if that's the case, to
00:58:26
me, a gun, a vehicle, and an outbuilding all point to some kind of planned attack. It doesn't doesn't look to me as
00:58:33
if somebody just happened to see somebody and go, "All right, I'm going to snatch them." And you you mentioned
00:58:40
the thing with the kids being out of school. Well, there's a couple things that makes
00:58:44
me wonder about that. There is a possibility that if somebody was watching the area for days, it could be
00:58:49
a planned attack, meaning that they were waiting and could have been waiting for days to appear to
00:58:55
to view what they saw was the perfect victim. Or we have a situation that makes you
00:59:01
wonder if if Monday was a school day, then it was a work day. These were regular working hours. Who would have
00:59:08
the means of not being accounted for for a certain period of time on that Monday?
00:59:14
And there's also some rumor and and speculation that this is linked to a Iowa case. Yeah, and I'll read this very
00:59:21
short article from whotv.com. Uh in Iowa, authorities may have a new lead in an Iowa cold case. Uh-huh. This
00:59:30
is because of the double murder investigation in Indiana. 10-year-old Elizabeth Collins and 8-year-old Lyric
00:59:37
Cook were kidnapped in July of 2012. They're cousins. Uh their bodies were located about 6
00:59:45
months later in a wooded area about 25 miles from where they were taken. Now, the thing here is the girls were riding
00:59:53
They were last spotted riding their bikes near Myers Lake in Evansdale. Okay. Um no one has been charged in connection
01:00:00
with their murders. Um their disappearance has some similarities to this recent uh
01:00:05
kidnapping and murders of the two girls in Indiana. Well, we don't know if it's a kidnapping.
01:00:10
The Iowa Well, technically it is. Technically it is. Uh the Iowa Division of Criminal
01:00:16
Investigation has been in contact with their counterparts in Indiana about the case.
01:00:21
Uh so far Now, this is This This is an article that came out shortly after the Indiana investigation. So, when I say so
01:00:29
far, this is from a month or so ago. They're stating, "So far, they've shared notes about the two murder cases, but
01:00:35
haven't determined if there is a connection." Um it's interesting though uh because, you know, abducting two
01:00:41
people, a double murder of of children is not very common. Um and we see this where in both cases.
01:00:50
On top of that, I believe both in both cases the girls disappeared on the 13th of a month of the month. Now, you know,
01:00:59
us armchair detectives, we like to look at little minute details like that and say that there's some reasoning for
01:01:05
that. And and most law enforcement investigators will tell you usually people don't think of things like that
01:01:11
when they're committing these crimes. Um but it is strange that they both disappeared on on the 13th of a month.
01:01:19
Neither case do we have anybody charged or or any major suspects in either. And there you know, this case is like we
01:01:27
said from the beginning so hard to cover because of the lack of the information out there, which on one side I applaud
01:01:33
the police. One side uh and I applaud the community cuz we're not just talking about law
01:01:39
enforcement that you know, found the bodies. So, there's probably going to be more leaks that come out, you know, in
01:01:45
the future with this, but I I I would I want to make a little bit of a plea to the police
01:01:51
to understand that there are a lot of smart minds out there that might not be involved
01:02:00
directly with law enforcement. And I do feel like if there was some bits of evidence
01:02:07
that you know, could be released without damaging your case, that you might get a
01:02:13
lot of more help from the public. Yeah, and the thing here is, Captain to me, I really think it's interesting the
01:02:20
way that they went about this investigation in the early stages. I think it was very smart of them to
01:02:26
release the picture of the man and not state that he's a suspect uh because, as you and I were talking about earlier,
01:02:34
you know, this guy they could release this picture of this guy and he not maybe not know where the picture came
01:02:40
from. Maybe he didn't know that the picture was taken from Libby's phone or the audio taken At this point, the audio
01:02:46
was not released. And maybe he thinks, "Well, if we can get this guy to think, well, somebody else saw you there on
01:02:52
that trail. Somebody else saw you on that bridge near the time that the girls disappeared." Right. Well, that might
01:02:58
that might coerce him into coming forward and trying to just clear his name. And then boom, you know who your
01:03:03
guy is. So, I applaud them for sitting on that for for some time. I think that was very smart. I also appreciate that
01:03:10
they've come out and named him as a suspect and released the audio. I think that there's a tip out there that they
01:03:16
still need that they've not received yet. I don't know that they need to be telling us more than what they have. And
01:03:23
and and And my biggest fear is the reason why they're keeping so much quiet is that there might not be DNA. Right.
01:03:30
Um because they'll need certain things in the confession to to help with this conviction. Um
01:03:37
but the the other thing here is Well, and and as far as confessions go, it's true because we've seen it time and time
01:03:44
again. If you release too much information to the public, then you get you get some nut jobs coming in going,
01:03:50
"I I did it." Yeah. And it's like uh the only information you're giving us is the information that we gave the public.
01:03:59
What I would like to see, and if anybody has come across this or could find it, please email it to us or put it
01:04:06
Actually, more importantly, put it on our blog on on truecrimegarage.com so everybody can see it because I noticed
01:04:13
that during the course of this investigation, it said that the Indiana State Police was working with the FBI to
01:04:19
put together a profile of the killer. Right. But I've not been able to find that
01:04:23
actual profile. Now, sometimes they release these things and sometimes they do not. When I go searching for it, all
01:04:29
I find is articles talking about how they're going to be working on this profile. The thing here is I think this
01:04:35
profile could be paramount to this case. I think that it could help solve this case and I'll tell you why. I think that
01:04:42
this horrible person that that did this horrible act piece of [ __ ] he he's somebody's father. He's somebody's
01:04:50
husband. He's somebody's uncle. You know, somebody is related to this guy. Somebody knows this guy. Somebody
01:04:57
suspects him. The problem is the problem is sometimes when somebody that you love
01:05:03
is a is a real-life monster, you don't want to believe it. And maybe you don't ever see that side of that person. And
01:05:10
the thing here is maybe you have your suspicions, but you're thinking to yourself, "You know what? It can't be
01:05:16
him because the experts say that the person is 40 to 50 years old. Well, this guy's that I know and love is 51 years
01:05:24
old. So, it can't be him. I'm not going to report him. It looks like him. It sounds like him. He had some weird
01:05:29
scratch marks on his body, but it can't be him because they're off on the age. Or he doesn't own clothing
01:05:36
that looks like that. So, it can't be him." No. No. We I would like to see this profile because I think that if we
01:05:43
have some officials telling us, "You know what? Here's a box. You You should think outside of the box
01:05:49
on occasion, but here's kind of a box of some parameters that we think might encompass who we think this killer is.
01:05:57
It might get the right person to pick up that phone or to email the proper tip to
01:06:02
the authorities. Right. So, you you got kind of two you know um roads of thought. One, they're really
01:06:10
close, so they don't want to give away information. Or one, they're super far away. Mhm. And that's what's scary
01:06:18
because these uh these girls deserve to a lot. They deserve They didn't deserve this and they they deserve
01:06:27
uh answers and their family deserves that as well. I would just like to again think think about this.
01:06:36
Amy Mihaljevic, right? Mhm. They released new evidence that they found at the crime scene
01:06:44
how many years later? 20 years later? Yeah. Close to 20 years later. You know, and and for people that don't
01:06:50
know the story, the girl goes missing, then she's found. And um in that area that she's found, there was
01:06:57
these curtains. And maybe she was wrapped up in the curtains and maybe she wasn't. But they were custom-made. Mhm.
01:07:03
Now, if you would have released that information 20 years ago, you might have had a chance. Mhm. But the person that
01:07:09
made those could be passed away. Could not live in the area anymore. So, if this thing gets cold, you're going to
01:07:19
have to release some stuff to in my opinion Mhm. to get the community behind it. And I'm
01:07:27
glad that we're covering this case even though it was very difficult as far as the finding that a bunch of information
01:07:35
cuz we'd rather give you information than speculation. Yeah, there I want to go through one
01:07:41
more rumor here because while we're talking about potential suspects and who we could be looking for.
01:07:47
Um it's been rumored that and I won't go into all the reasons why, but one specific reason that I think needs to be
01:07:54
addressed. It's been rumored that Libby fought very very hard. That that she fought back and
01:08:05
and may have put up a hell of a fight against this guy to the point where I've heard a rumor that her nails were
01:08:12
shredded. Her fingernails were shredded. If that's the case, that means she inflicted some serious damage on this
01:08:19
guy and I hope that she did. I hope that those scratch marks were many and they were deep and they were very painful.
01:08:26
Thing is, somebody could have seen those on this person for days afterwards and have suspicions.
01:08:34
You know, we talk about things like a guy wearing blue jeans or a jacket or a hoodie or maybe a camouflage hunting
01:08:41
cap. Those things Those are just clothing that that he may have been wearing to disguise himself. But I want
01:08:48
to throw this out there, too. If this is somebody that you know, you don't really
01:08:53
know this person. If this person was in fact carrying a deer kit with him, like we we said we suspect maybe yesterday,
01:09:00
if he was carrying a deer kit with him, it I mean you cannot put into words how despicable
01:09:07
and evil this person is. You don't really know them. Now, there's some things that the FBI wants to remind us
01:09:12
about. What does a deer kit have to do with being evil? You don't have to use your
01:09:17
imagination too long to think about what could have been in that deer kit and what could it could have been used for.
01:09:23
Okay? Uh the the first The thing here I want to talk about is what the FBI is trying
01:09:28
to remind us about about this person. You know, we No longer does it just have to be
01:09:34
somebody that looks like the person in the picture or sounds like the guy in the picture because he could have been
01:09:38
trying to disguise himself. Sounds like the guy in the clip, yeah. So, the thing here is they're reminding
01:09:44
us, you know, do you know anybody that has changed their appearance since the 13th? You know, maybe
01:09:51
drastically, February 13th, yeah. Yeah, the a haircut, shaved, changed the way that they're dressing. Do you know
01:09:58
somebody that has started abusing drugs or alcohol since that date? Somebody that has become anxious or irritable
01:10:05
that that may not have possessed those type of emotions or or characteristics before. Mhm. Someone that canceled an
01:10:11
appointment or a social engagement on February 13th for unexplained reasons. Or 14th. Yeah. Somebody that has
01:10:19
obsessed over the case or constantly talks about where they were on February 13th. Mhm. Um those are some things that
01:10:27
they're reminding us to think about when we look at that picture, to think about
01:10:31
when we hear that audio clip, and think about before you make that phone call or
01:10:36
place that email. Yeah, and also think about the fact that this is a 13- and 14-year-old girl.
01:10:44
You know, 13 And think about the fact that it was a 13- and 14-year-old Think about the fact that it's a 13- and
01:10:53
14-year-old girl. And how much they had to give to this world that was taken away.
01:11:00
And uh this person that you might be suspicious of is a horrible monster. Mhm. And you
01:11:07
could you could do you could right a wrong in this world. Yeah, and the other thing that I want to
01:11:15
make sure that we mention before we close up here today is that Libby and Abby, I think, in my opinion,
01:11:22
very brave and heroic young girls to be in a situation as terrifying as as this and have the bravery to record something
01:11:32
on your phone to to to potentially put yourself into further danger to try to collect evidence against this this evil
01:11:40
monster. The thing here is we don't know if this guy has killed before. We don't
01:11:44
know if he will kill again. If he's capable of what took place on February 13th,
01:11:50
this it's un- imaginable what this monster is capable of. And so, I just think that,
01:11:56
you know, we should take a moment to recognize the bravery of those two young girls, and and I think they're heroes in
01:12:03
my mind and should be in the in the community as well. There As a reminder, the tip line is is
01:12:10
still going on. That phone number is 844-459-5786. You can also email tips to Abby and
01:12:19
Libby [email protected]. Again, that phone number and email will be in the show notes.
01:12:30
Um so, if you have any information, please submit your tips today. So, recommended reading. This week we're
01:12:38
recommending California's Ransom Murder Mystery by Tom Zaniallo. Now, this is a book that takes place on Memorial Day
01:12:46
1933 when David Ransom finds his wife dead in their Palo Alto home. Well, he becomes the only suspect, and this is
01:12:54
one of California's most sensational trials. Mhm. After the judge sentenced David to hang in San Quentin, a group of
01:13:01
Stanford colleagues formed the Ransom Defense Committee, and they were able to get several more retrials. So, check out
01:13:10
this book so you can figure out did Ransom truly kill his wife or was an innocent man put on trial for murder?
01:13:17
Check out California's Ransom Murder Mystery, and you can do that by going to truecrimegarage.com and click on the
01:13:24
recommended page. For everything True Crime Garage, whether it be the new pine glasses or the shirts, go to
01:13:29
truecrimegarage.com. Thanks for joining us in the garage this week. Thanks for subscribing and telling
01:13:34
a friend. And we will have a big exciting announcement, a little bonus thing for
01:13:40
you, hopefully by the end of the week. All right, and until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.