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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that has cleverly disguised himself as a
00:01:52
responsible adult he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see you
00:01:59
thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend tonight tonight we are drinking
00:02:06
cult classic by Goose Island Brew House in beautiful beautiful Toronto Canada garage grade three and A2 bottle caps
00:02:13
out of five this is a very smooth and easy drinking dark colored beer a German inspired logger with notes of bread
00:02:21
honey and floral Hops and today's beer was brought to us by These Fine Friends of the garage first up we have geese all
00:02:28
the way over Holland and big shout out to Tony in Crownpoint Indiana next up sending out some peace and love to Robin
00:02:36
in Reading Pennsylvania and a big we like a jib to Kelly and Little Rock Arkansas next up let's go to the great
00:02:43
state of Texas and say thank you and hello to Sarah from Fort Worth and last but not least a shout out to Amanda and
00:02:49
Sweetwater Texas thanks to everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's show if you want to help us out with
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those shows for next week go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and another great way to support
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the show is leave us a festar review on iTunes it really does help the show and that's enough for the business all right
00:03:08
everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime
00:03:31
all right we continue on to look into the untimely deaths of Barry and his wife honey Sherman who were killed or
00:03:40
possible murder suicide inside their home in Toronto Canada just late last year so this is a recent case and we
00:03:50
know with these captain that a lot of times they have to solve them before you're going to get a lot of information
00:03:56
yeah it's frustrating this one has been a very interesting case to look into because of the possibilities here seem
00:04:04
endless really when you look at this because we're talking about a very successful man who and as we know you
00:04:12
know s success does not come without its hurles along the way mhm there's a good
00:04:18
chance that this man had to step on a lot of step on a lot of toes to get to where he was in life and we all know
00:04:25
that can aggravate and anger people creating enemies along the way on your road to success well his company was
00:04:32
involved in a bunch of lawsuits and he almost seemed to be proud of that in some of the interviews that I saw with
00:04:38
him he'd go and all these papers in my office these are lawsuits isn't that awesome well and one thing that you and
00:04:45
I had a brilliant discussion on on Friday about was one key factor in this this investigation that came out several
00:04:54
weeks into the investigation was the thought of the lockbox and what we mean by that is that when a home is listed
00:05:02
when it's for sale that Realtors will often use a lockbox to give them access to the home and when we have a scenario
00:05:11
here where we reportedly I'm sorry repeatedly have police on records say stating that there was no forced entry
00:05:19
into the home well then one has to speculate could this lockbox have been involved could this be the reason and
00:05:26
for those of you not familiar us usually the way that this system works is that there is some kind of lock box that is
00:05:33
positioned around the front door or on the front door and the realtor can use a code to open up this box and inside
00:05:41
there is a key which allows you into the home now captain and I know several different realtors and we've spoken to a
00:05:49
few of them over the course of this last week and it appears to me that these lock boxes are not all ident identical
00:05:57
they don't all work the same way um um some of them have temporary codes I've also seen some online chitter chatter
00:06:05
that some people speculated that some of them might share a code um and we've come across this in other scenarios on
00:06:12
this show when we talk about safes and getting into locations and keypads and things of that nature M well it seems to
00:06:20
me that there is some kind of system where the real estate agent has to contact somebody to get the code mhm so
00:06:28
that would be on record there's also uh lock boxes that they can hold their phone up and by using an app they can
00:06:36
get into the lock box again that would be something on record does the app tell the lockbox that they are in close
00:06:43
proximity to the lockbox or is it how do you know how that works well I've seen my I'm looking for a home now so I can
00:06:52
I've seen my realtor hold their phone up to the lock box and something happens or
00:06:58
or or they're sent a number through the app or but again there's ways to track all of this so I think one if somebody
00:07:07
used this as a way to enter the house um there would have been some kind of communication on how to get that number
00:07:15
now I'm going to put something out there that maybe people will think oh well here comes Captain conspiracy
00:07:23
Captain what yeah Captain conspiracy Captain potato chips in his throat um that with the dark web that somebody
00:07:34
would be able to get this information probably pretty easily to have some kind of code to unlock the Box um I actually
00:07:43
don't think they use this I think what we're talking about at the end of the last episode I think if they were met by
00:07:49
perpetrators outside the house outside of the garage that's probably the easiest way to gain access mhm and I
00:07:56
agree with you and and like I said we had this brilliant conversation on Friday and then we get into yesterday's
00:08:01
show and we're both kind of more of the mindset that honey was likely approached
00:08:06
or attacked outside of the home and then once they had her they had access to the
00:08:11
home before moving on though I do want to point out a couple things and you said a list you know that they would
00:08:17
have that information and that's where we got this information was that we have the police and investigators coming out
00:08:24
and stating look we have a list of anyone who gained entry to the home in North Toronto which was for sale via the
00:08:32
lockbox that was their exact statement I found that I found that statement interesting because I wanted to know
00:08:40
further does that mean okay this is the list of people that have access to the lockbox and these are the only people
00:08:46
that have access to the lockbox or is this a list that states these are the people that have used the lockbox so far
00:08:53
and on what days and what times and who was all in the party that was looking at
00:08:58
the home how detailed was that information was something that I found to be interesting well maybe I'm wrong
00:09:04
to assume but I'm assuming that law enforcement went down this list they uh questioned all these individuals and
00:09:12
they probably all checked out one thing too Captain I was a little shocked and I'm making an assumption here but I was
00:09:20
a little shocked giving the families wealth and giving given the value of the home M I would have from somebody with a
00:09:29
security background I was expecting that there would be electric door locks on this house whether it be magnets or or
00:09:38
electric that these doors would all automatically lock behind you um that you would use either a keypad or a key
00:09:46
card to enter the home rather than a traditional key which could be the case we don't know but it seems to be like
00:09:53
there's a thought that there's a lockbox somewhere that's able to gain access to
00:09:59
the home now one thing I do want to point out for while we're on the topic of of security and one thing that I used
00:10:06
to tell people uh that I worked for in the past was when you're using these keypads and some of you you know we're
00:10:13
not all on this level but some of us you know of of the level of having these big
00:10:17
expensive homes with these great security precautions and measures going on but a lot of us out there have
00:10:24
keypads to our garage doors M and one thing that I used to have to remind people that would that had access to
00:10:31
those properties when using keypads often I would see people you know you you kind of stand out and you punching
00:10:37
your code and you nonchalantly walk in well it doesn't take an Einstein to be standing behind you down the street
00:10:45
watching you from a window above to see you type in that code and gain access to
00:10:51
that door so one thing I used to have to remind people was Shield yourself a bit
00:10:54
when you're punching in your code just like you would at an ATM machine uh protect yourself when you're going in
00:10:59
and out of your garage door the other thing too wipe those keypads down often if you if you don't clean them and
00:11:07
you're only using one specific code a lot of times you can open up that keypad the cover to the keypad and see which
00:11:15
four or five buttons are being pushed um so those are some some good tips for you
00:11:20
for everybody out there one thing we need to move on to though Captain is the lawsuit now we didn't get into the
00:11:26
lawsuit so much yesterday but what we did Cover and I don't know that we're going to
00:11:30
have enough time to get into the tiny little details of this lawsuit because the broad Strokes it's vast um but what
00:11:40
we're going to do is kind of I think that this is a big thing here this was certainly a big thing in Sherman's life
00:11:46
now we have to determine was it a factor in his demise so Barry Sherman was involved
00:11:53
it's no secret in a great deal of litigation um a lot of these cases were of great importance most of them to his
00:12:01
company now one case in particular was more on a personal level and that was his family some members of his family
00:12:08
had sued him because they felt that they had a rightful claim to a portion of his
00:12:13
company who are these people these are the winters remember Barry gained he was able to take over the
00:12:22
company uh his uncle's company after his uncle passed away and then he turned it
00:12:27
into his own company well his uncle's children were very young at the time that he had passed away I actually
00:12:34
believe the oldest might have only been seven or eight years old so they so they
00:12:38
become orphans four of them yeah and so the thought the general thought is this that because they were so young and
00:12:46
because Barry took over the company they weren't able to have have that same privilege that would be their
00:12:54
inheritance that they they didn't have the opportunity to purchase the that they sure yeah that they should deserve
00:13:00
and therefore their cousin Barry had a fiduciary duty to these children basically he owed them something is what
00:13:09
their lawsuit would State when when to put it plain and simple he owes us something for this great success that he
00:13:16
wouldn't have had he only had it because of because of our father right this case
00:13:23
was not it was not a short case this thing was in trial I don't know if trial is the right word but in
00:13:29
litigation for what like a decade yeah 10 years so we got uh the lawyers must have loved that right that's you make a
00:13:39
whole career out of this one case in September just a couple months before Barry was uh before he passed away the
00:13:48
judge basically says look there's no case here this is wishful thinking on the part of the four winter children
00:13:55
right who are now obviously adults um this is wishful thinking on their part this guy has made his own success and he
00:14:03
owes you nothing now to make it worse uh you've held this guy up in court for all these years you now owe
00:14:12
him $300,000 and I believe that was to cover some of his legal expenses throughout
00:14:18
the course of this figuring this whole thing out yes and then also at some point Barry was giving money to these
00:14:25
cousins to help them try to start their own companies and during this uh litigation
00:14:32
as well those became not just Gifts of money but loans and so those were expected to be paid back as
00:14:41
well yeah and those were millions of dollars yeah and that's one thing that I find I find a little weird do do you
00:14:50
feel like if they felt like they deserve something it was almost like they were getting something because of his success
00:14:58
seen it reported that they were receiving monthly stiens as high as $115,000 each from Barry Sherman and
00:15:06
they were getting homes purchased for them they would get businesses started up and I mean who needs a business
00:15:12
started up when you're getting $15,000 a month well I believe all four of these individuals all four of his it' be his
00:15:20
cousins right right uh all four of his cousin had cousins had issues with alcohol and drugs so and I also just
00:15:28
think that that people do money makes people even greedier just to cover our own butts here though Captain I've only
00:15:36
seen it reported that two of them had had those issues so just so we cover our own butts here um but those two widely
00:15:46
reported okay so the reason why we bring this up is you can't look into this case
00:15:51
without thinking that this could possibly have something to do with it m and regarding the money that they were
00:15:58
receiving from Barry before the way that that worked was they were receiving gifts monthly stiens houses loans All
00:16:05
That Jazz and until they said all right now Barry you owe us something we're coming after you now exactly what the
00:16:11
captain said he's saying these gifts that I gave you in the past you now owe me for some of these gifts and
00:16:18
furthermore the family the cousins are saying look court system he used this to try to control us he used this system
00:16:27
that he created that he could change and manipulate whenever he wanted to as a way of keeping us quiet as a way of
00:16:33
controlling us so he could maintain the company and us not go after him so it's it's tit fortat it's it's him going
00:16:40
after them them going after him it was a long nasty bit to sort out let's be pretty clear about this so Barry gets
00:16:49
the company and let's just call that company Empire right so he gets Empire and basically what this agreement stated
00:16:59
and this is what I this is where it's kind of confusing to me is that at some point that they would be each one of
00:17:05
them would be able to get 5% of the company's um wealth now the way I viewed that is that they'd have the opportunity
00:17:17
to buy into the 5% that's how I view it now I could be wrong so they have the opportunity to
00:17:26
get 5% each that would be 20% % so then they kind of basically went okay how much is Barry worth and we're entitled
00:17:33
to 20% of that the problem is is that at some point uh Empire was sold off or they just did away with and they started
00:17:45
his next company which has nothing to do with Empire right so now you have this company that does not exist and there's
00:17:53
no actual value and and look some people think you know Barry was a you know piece of [ __ ] because he was
00:18:00
trying to keep his family or these cousins you know from getting what is rightfully theirs right but but also
00:18:09
this is just a smart business move if you have a business that is worth something and you know that there is
00:18:14
fine print writing that these individuals that you have lost contact with are entitled to 20% of the business
00:18:22
and then these individuals come back into play well then get rid of that business start your own business now you
00:18:27
don't owe them anything and that's basically what the judge said right right they're they're coming
00:18:33
after Barry because they believe because he got Empire which is a he created his
00:18:38
new company which is B A plus b equals c which was his success in wealth and they
00:18:44
wanted a chunk of c and the and the court system's basically saying well you had nothing to do with B so you don't
00:18:50
get a chunk of C right and also Barry was able to prove that if Barry wasn't in charge of company a
00:18:59
that it would never made any money it at at some point actually was scheduled to
00:19:03
go bankrupt so then you'd get oh yeah you want to get 20% of a bankrupt company they pursue this lawsuit for a
00:19:13
decade for what what is 20% of a five or six billion dollar company that's a whole lot of Rolling Papers if you get
00:19:22
that 20% mhm and then after a decade they're told by a judge you got no here and furthermore you're going to have to
00:19:31
give this dude that you went after $300,000 to make up for his time mm is this a motive for murder yes yeah we've
00:19:39
seen and discussed people being killed for a whole lot less than this I smack demand for a double cheeseburger now
00:19:47
obviously don't anybody go falling off of their Lazy Boy recliner to email me and say well just cuz Barry ends up dead
00:19:54
doesn't mean they get the 20% we understand that we're talking about people that could be very angry at
00:20:01
feeling like they were cheated out of a lifetime's worth of wealth no be let's get this pretty clear Barry dies honey
00:20:08
dies nobody's getting any extra money they're not getting anything but like you said this would be um we didn't get
00:20:15
what we thought were do so now we're going to murder you now and this is also coming now there's out of the four
00:20:21
cousins there's the only one that's really talking yeah and let's focus in on him this is Carrie winter now Carri
00:20:28
winner has said some weird stuff about Barry he claims that at some point Barry said to him hey you know some
00:20:37
people take care of my wife I want her dead right now he made these allegations to The Fifth Estate The Fifth Estate uh
00:20:47
he was willing to take a polygraph he took the polygraph and he failed um now all they did was that all
00:20:54
they asked him during this polygraph test was about this this allegation that Barry wanted Honey
00:21:02
dead and so he so he fails the lie detector then they wanted him to take a lie detector to see if he's responsible
00:21:11
for the murder of Barry and honey and then he refuses now now mind you his lawyer is
00:21:18
saying you just failed one polygraph test we're not going to have you take another one well and this comes about
00:21:24
because he publicly says you know this is a Canadian case can you say a boat route right no okay um I'm in
00:21:34
Ohio uh this comes a boat you can listen to uh a true crime show from Canada if you want um this was Ohio brother anyway
00:21:43
the nighttime podcast here's the thing this comes about because because Carrie says that look I believe this was a
00:21:51
murder suicide I believe that Barry wanted his wife dead and here's why because on at least two occasions this
00:21:58
guy has asked me to put some scenario together where I have his wife killed for him MH and when when you attack him
00:22:06
and go okay well this seems a little fishy could you give us some more information and he
00:22:12
goes well I I remember these conversations happened at Barry's place of work I remember that they happened
00:22:19
sometime in the 90s I didn't tell my relatives about it at the time but I did some maybe tell them sometime before
00:22:27
before before the couple died I did tell a friend or two at the time that he asked me to do this and which which they
00:22:35
confirm that those friends do remember those conversations the other problem with this individual though is he was he
00:22:42
was a drug addict well not heroin a bunch of different things yeah he was in a a Cocaine Anonymous program
00:22:52
a 12-step program now he he also the the bigger problem though is that he has said publicly that he he suspects one a
00:23:03
lot of people would have wanted to see Barry dead including himself that he said he had fantasized and spoke to um
00:23:11
psychiatrist about having fantasies of killing Barry that he wanted to decapitate him and roll his head down a
00:23:18
parking lot or down a driveway or something like that so here we have this very strange I can the only the only way
00:23:29
I can describe this dude is as strange this guy is a he's a see you next Wednesday I look at him he makes no
00:23:37
sense to me he's what he makes no sense to me I don't know that he knows what's going on or what words are coming out of
00:23:45
his mouth because I actually find him somewhat intelligent during the interviews I mean I think he's a he's a
00:23:51
liar but I I think he there was definitely a brain in that head yeah a flashy brain is in that head
00:23:59
he he seems to me I don't understand why this in while this investigation is going on that you come out and say look
00:24:06
I fantasized about killing this dude and he hated he hated honey as well and they
00:24:13
just never questioned him from the beginning and he he fully admits on camera no alibi and also well no no no
00:24:22
no he he no he does he gives an alibi he says okay look taken when when he was asked to go through the possible days of
00:24:32
the 13th and the 14th which is believed that they were killed on one of those two days M this is as much of an alibi
00:24:39
as he provides he states that um he attended a 12-step program on the 13th claiming that he's been clean and sober
00:24:49
for six years now he said that after the 12-step program he went home and watched
00:24:54
an episode of peaky blinders on Netflix and he went to bed he said he most likely spoke to his girlfriend long
00:25:02
distance calling her from his home on that night the next day on Thursday he says he got up at 6:15 a.m. showered
00:25:10
shaved and went off to his job he's a construction supervisor for um six custom homes that are being built north
00:25:18
of the city he claims that on that day while he is at work he could quote absolutely I could not go awall because
00:25:26
we are in regular contact through text email or sometimes phone calls there's no way between 600 in the morning on
00:25:34
Thursday and 600 in the evening on Thursday I I've got a full Alibi with many different trades seeing me in and
00:25:41
out of houses yeah but the problem here is Carrie is a weirdo and he told this to the Sun
00:25:54
newspaper the Toronto Sun that's a d what I read was a direct quote from him to the Toronto son yes now let's play
00:26:02
some clips of him talking to The Fifth Estate and the first part of this clip just so everybody knows what's going on
00:26:08
remember he had said that Barry had asked him twice to kill his wife and what you're going to hear at the start
00:26:15
of this clip is car's changing his story because he's been hooked up to the polygraph the polygraph shows deception
00:26:23
on car's part when asked how many times were you asked to kill Barry's wife honey how many you know were you in fact
00:26:31
asked to kill honey and you hear him changing his song and dance after that polygraph but I still believe it I don't
00:26:39
know why in my head I believe he asked me twice but is it possible you didn't ask you a second time yeah what
00:26:45
percentage do you feel that he only asked you once what would be the percentage pretty high like
00:26:52
how close to 100 yeah yeah he only asked me once it would have been not months or weeks it would have
00:27:04
been within a few days okay he called it off within a few days right as opposed to months and weeks you say mon second
00:27:11
time okay go I mentioned the second time which is false right yes that's the only explanation I have
00:27:20
that I could have embellished and said two times and that she was getting close to being done and she was 20 hours away
00:27:27
and that could have been an embellishment because I I honestly think there was this button idea that she was
00:27:34
20 hours away from going this button thing was a [ __ ] right looking back and I don't know if that's true or not
00:27:41
where I would have dreamt that up though why I would have dreamed it up maybe drugs maybe the drugs possibly or to
00:27:47
make it a more drama oriented Fiasco I'm completely baffled because I didn't think this stay here I'm going to
00:27:55
get the det take [ __ ] failed man okay unbelievable you know I probably had reasons to lash out
00:28:05
to uh to do the dirty deed this would be asked of you by anybody did you kill honey and Barry
00:28:15
Sherman absolutely not I had nothing to do with it I don't know who did it I mean I had opportunity I had motive I
00:28:25
can see why the police might say this guy's is also a [ __ ] nut like I would talk about killing Barry and it was very
00:28:33
graphic the way I was going to do it wouldn't have been belts it was going to be in the apc's parking lot that was my
00:28:40
vision always that he'd come out of the building and Apex and I'd be hiding behind a car and I
00:28:46
just decapitate I wanted to roll his head down the parking lot and I just sit there waiting for the
00:28:52
place no alibi Wednesday night I went to my Cocaine Anonymous meeting I came home
00:28:57
home as I usually do watch some Netflix eat some Doritos fall asleep Thursday night same thing went to work
00:29:06
very easily for me to have left work at anytime CU I'm not on the clock I'm a site supervisor I can get in my car I
00:29:13
can take a 3-hour break during the day I could easily have driven over to Colony
00:29:17
and done the de I admit to that but I didn't I didn't and that's why I'm not [Music]
00:29:26
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us at 1888 [Music] Freedom all right we're back and that was uh Carrie winter a real piece of work taking you
00:31:59
for a bit of a roller coaster right there Captain I don't think we need to spend a whole lot of time on Carrie
00:32:04
Winter's character I don't know that well I I I don't want to say that he's like a horrible despicable person um he
00:32:13
he has these fantasies of killing Barry Sherman which he's very honest and open about however he also feels like he's
00:32:20
been extremely wronged by this man so I don't want to try to get in his head and
00:32:24
play games and figure that thing out but cuz he's already he's already in his own
00:32:29
head playing games what where I have the biggest issue with this individual is he should be on a suspect
00:32:38
list I I don't know that he's the prime suspect I don't know that I think that he's even capable or sophisticated
00:32:44
enough to potentially have carried this out however and and to get away with it to this point however what I find very
00:32:52
strange is I'm giving you a d direct quote from an article that was in the Toronto Sun you are playing a clip of
00:33:00
him saying almost the exact opposite when he is on The Fifth Estate both of these situations the both interviews
00:33:07
would have occurred 6 weeks after the deaths of the Shermans so where I have a big problem is he also goes on in both
00:33:15
of these interviews to say I've not talked to the police yet I've not been questioned by detectives yet but however
00:33:22
I I didn't do it so therefore I'm not worried about talking to Detectives that doesn't you know I'm not nervous about
00:33:29
that in any way well and that at the end of The Fifth Estate they do say that he
00:33:33
was contacted by detectives um he's been questioned he is not a suspect at this time right but again six weeks right how
00:33:43
is he not on police o okay we should question these 100 people he was not on that first 100 list how hard is it and I
00:33:53
and I hate to throw sh I'm a blue blood guy every day every night but but what I
00:33:58
have an issue with is I think this is a big slip up on Toronto police department
00:34:03
on their Police Service I think it's a huge slip up and what I mean by that is it does not it takes one interview with
00:34:12
one of the Sherman children one of the grown children to say you know what is there anybody that would have wanted to
00:34:19
see either of your parents dead especially Barry is there anyone well if they would have contacted you know the
00:34:25
Sherman's lawyers too and say out of these lawsuits it's somebody a threat and this this
00:34:33
lawsuit it had it was done with in September it's not like we're talking about years ago
00:34:39
this was months before they were killed or before this incident whatever you want to argue whether it's murder
00:34:45
suicide or whatever right this is a guy that seems to me like it see it's very strange that this guy was not contacted
00:34:52
and questioned within the first week of this going down or at least being one of
00:34:59
the first 10 or 20 people that they talk to I think that what happened yeah but I
00:35:05
also think you have a situation where you have a lot of you know you have a lot of nice houses in this area you have
00:35:11
a lot of possibilities for surveillance footage and that's going to be very important to get right away
00:35:19
where you know if you have uh somebody like carry on video camera in the neighborhood on Wednesday night well you
00:35:28
know when you talk to him 6 weeks later that's a a pretty strong piece of evidence I agree with that but what I'm
00:35:37
also getting at is it seems like very delayed to me six weeks to talk to this guy who is willing to sit down with
00:35:44
people and on camera say I dreamed of killing that dude and not only and here's why and the reason why is public
00:35:51
knowledge the reason why is public knowledge it wasn't hidden from anybody yeah again a tough thing you know to
00:35:58
play Devil's Advocate and to be Champion uh for the law enforcement is the fact that you know it took him six weeks to
00:36:06
do the forensics of this Mansion you know so that's a that's a lot of time spent you know um at this house this
00:36:15
property because it was so large right I I I agree but nobody's going to get me to change my mind that
00:36:21
this guy should have been spoken to within the first week I understand it's a large crime scene here's the other
00:36:27
problem what I'm getting at Captain is I think that they honed in on this murder
00:36:31
suicide and I think there was probably things at the scene to suggest to them that that might be what they are looking
00:36:39
at right and what I'm getting at is one thing we've been critical of other departments we've been critical of
00:36:45
authors we've been critical of podcasters of ourselves of everyone about this is honing in on one Theory
00:36:52
too early too soon and sticking to that and going you know what we're going to work this until it's until this lead is
00:36:58
dead until we can't trace it anymore and then we will start coming up with other
00:37:03
ideas afterward so what are some of these other theories some other possible theories regarding uh the death of the
00:37:11
Sherman so I I want to be clear here it is still up for debate that this was um a murder suicide there's still people
00:37:19
out there presenting that side of the argument where I have where I take issue with that and where a lot of other
00:37:26
people take issue with that is there has been a lot of information that has come
00:37:30
out to suggest otherwise and some of that being the leature marks that were believed to be bindings on the wrist of
00:37:38
Barry and honey Sherman it's believed there is one side of the argument that states that these people their hands
00:37:46
were bound and the bindings were removed after their death and removed from the crime scene there's also strong argument
00:37:54
to suggest that they weren't hanged you know that position that they were found in where they're they look to be hanging
00:38:01
from the rails by their necks there's there's good evidence out there to suggest that they were actually
00:38:08
strangled before that and then tied up to the rails after death so we could sit here and debate the
00:38:17
murder suicide or double homicide thing all day long I think that it's it it would be a waste of everyone's time I
00:38:24
think that there there is enough here for me to suggest that this is a double homicide all right so let's just assume
00:38:30
that it is a double homicide and then what are the theories the three more popular ones are one that we've already
00:38:37
kind of touched on that the family either the family or someone in the family murdered the
00:38:44
Shermans the next theory is an unknown unknown and what what I why I title it this is because Barry Sherman was a very
00:38:54
wealthy man and by some account one of the wealthiest men in Canada mhm and besides his pharmaceutical Empire he
00:39:03
had invested widely in in real estate hedge funds Etc right he he had this investment um with this boat you heard
00:39:12
about this nobody had an interesting beer investment as well well he had this boat called the Great gasby oh yeah I
00:39:20
heard a little bit about that but the boat never existed yeah yeah so he I mean he was spreading his money out and
00:39:26
these are probably a lot of things that honey didn't even know about well or or I mean does she care to know MH you know
00:39:36
what I mean she's got her own Endeavors I mean she's she's on more charitable boards than many charity boards than
00:39:42
most people in that area that most people can name this is a busy this is a busy woman anyway but what I what I'm
00:39:50
getting at with this unknown unknown theory is that he had many many business part partners that that spread
00:39:57
all across the land so according to this Theory Barry Sherman may have in one of
00:40:03
these side deals have found himself in a partnership with one or more unsavory characters let's say mhm and so if maybe
00:40:11
a project suddenly collapsed perhaps he was to blame or he was blaming others uh
00:40:18
some of these partners and somebody wanted or he's cutting somebody out of a deal right and somebody wanted Revenge
00:40:25
uh in this situ sitation I actually think that this scenario is entirely plausible um the problem here for
00:40:33
investigators I think that it creates a wide net it creates a huge let's say Minefield of people to kind of sort
00:40:41
through and sort out lots of paperwork lots of business dealings lots of different potential Partners right and I
00:40:48
think that you have to hone in look some people think that that maybe that honey
00:40:53
was just you know the innocent B standard right and and and I really feel like that if if they just wanted to kill
00:41:05
Barry they could have done so and just like his cousin is saying hey I was going to kill him right outside his
00:41:12
office well I think that's where most people probably could kill this individual that would spent a lot of
00:41:17
time alone at his place of business so to me there there there's a connection they they're they're both
00:41:26
both murdered for a reason you see what I mean the other thought would be that somebody in big Pharma uh took him out
00:41:36
MH um you know and we know that he built a substantial Fortune uh for himself a lot of this like you had talked about
00:41:43
reverse engineering patented drugs and going to Market with cheaper generic versions of these drugs so the precise
00:41:51
number would be unknown but how many people how many companies did this disrupt over the course of four decades
00:42:01
I mean it's almost it's siphoning billions tens of billions of dollars from other companies from balance sheets
00:42:08
from uh you know these affect stock prices they affect people's jobs executive bonuses bottom lines it's
00:42:18
endless right it's end the the tough thing here for me is that the fact that he was kind of backing away from the
00:42:25
business and you'd think that if they wanted to take him out they would also want to you know if we take him out that
00:42:31
it takes down his company too well that's that's possible the the reason why I do like this big Pharma Theory as
00:42:41
well as the last one for similar reasons MH okay one the motive would be obvious
00:42:47
and the other being that if this was a professional hit if this was a hired deal clearly they have
00:42:55
the financial me means to organize such a professional hit and yeah I'm sure there's some people out there going oh
00:43:01
yeah big Pharma you know put a hit out on this doctor this has been uh there's been a bunch of doctors that have ended
00:43:10
up dead but those are the three main theories uh what are some more of the far-fetched ones well the far-fetched
00:43:17
ones in in my opinion I think you share the same opinion is uh one the mob two mad agents and three the clintons and
00:43:27
it's always the clintons if clintons are responsible for everything if you Goen State killer Clinton did you want to go
00:43:34
down any of those roads I I looked into all three of them very briefly and very quickly was able to dismiss them I found
00:43:42
them to be much less likely than the three that we've already discussed well I think the Clinton one is it's it's
00:43:49
just very far-fetched there was some donations to the Clinton Foundation there's a bunch of donations with a
00:43:56
bunch of Barry Sherman was giv money to a lot of different foundations um so I but that idea that was he
00:44:06
lobbying you know for his company and was that a reason why he he ended up dead that's a possibility that's more
00:44:14
likely to me than the Clinton Foundation right right yeah I I actually I don't find any of these three um to be
00:44:22
credible at all I think the the the place that I found that was pumping the Mad agents the most was the national
00:44:31
Inquirer and I their claims are that there were fingerprints found at the scene to suggest that these
00:44:37
professionals came in from possibly overseas and committed this hit and then left um I find it awfully strange that
00:44:47
these professional Hitmen would come in and leave fingerprints at the scene it just makes no it makes no sense it seems
00:44:52
like they forgot their gloves before they got on the plane to to come over here well it like I said
00:45:00
it makes it makes no sense what I think happened here is exactly what you touched upon earlier I think when you
00:45:08
look at the Y plus how equals who I think the why here is why was Honey Sherman killed
00:45:18
because like you said it would have been the the list of enemies that Barry Sherman had is endless that's why we
00:45:26
could sit here and we could talk about possibilities and theories and speculations on this case for 10 more
00:45:32
episodes if you like you can send us an email true Crim garage.com if you would like for that to happen the thing here
00:45:39
though Captain is I find it strange that while Barry had all these enemies yet honey is killed as well she's an
00:45:50
unnecessary uh almost Collateral Damage I guess is what I'm saying it's unnecessary to to kill her if he is your
00:45:58
enemy and right but some people are just evil evil [ __ ] stains right and they're
00:46:04
like well I'll just kill her too so that is a possibility but I do believe that she the whatever I think this is a
00:46:12
Revenge killing somehow yeah that's what I'm getting at and and and like they've
00:46:16
said and that's what law enforcement has said a million times that the T the way
00:46:20
they were choked the way they were strangled this is like up close and personal attack so yeah I I think that she was
00:46:30
killed for a reason and I think that somebody wanted Revenge not just on Barry but they wanted revenge on honey
00:46:35
as well now does that have to be a family member no could it be big Pharma yes could it be an unnown unknown
00:46:43
unknown yes could it be the family yes I think that there was a reason why they both were killed and I think that I
00:46:51
think that it was actually a very calculated attack you know we talked about the possibility of bindings being
00:46:57
used and them removed well I think what I'm seeing here is that when the police walk into the scene they think that this
00:47:04
is a murder suicide because they have no evidence of anybody being in the house or removing anything from the house
00:47:10
right but it's a yeah stag that way there was there was yeah but there's nothing in the home that they find that
00:47:15
doesn't belong there right and there's nothing missing from the home and so that's what makes it seem so
00:47:22
sophisticated to me that's what I think it is sophisticated yeah I think that what happened was I I think she was
00:47:28
attacked out front MH to gain access to the home to wait for Barry to arrive they would have known that this might be
00:47:36
typical typical behavior of these two by watching them for any period of time they killed both of them like you
00:47:44
said up close and personal strangled with belts and then hung around those rails now the question was were they
00:47:50
both Berry's belts one of them is confirmed or at least believed to be Beres Bel belt right I believe they were
00:47:57
both Berry belts and the reason being is I go back to the fact that I think that
00:48:01
nothing was removed from the crime scene and nothing was left at the crime scene
00:48:06
which it adds to the sophistication and I think that you you you they strangled these poor people that were 75 and 70
00:48:14
years old were not able to defend themselves obviously didn't deserve any of this and then they hang them from the
00:48:21
railing there buying time screwing with the police investigation maybe staging the scene to give them the impression
00:48:29
that this might have been a murder suicide buying enough time to get out of Dodge I think I I think the Toronto
00:48:37
police department is very capable of solving this I think that somewhere along the line the private investigators
00:48:43
hired by the family this will be solved and I'll tell you why the family has enough money to pay private
00:48:49
investigators and pay lawyers for many years to come to unlock the truth somewhere along the line there's a
00:48:56
connection to why somebody wanted them both dead there's a piece of paper there's a dealing somewhere that's going
00:49:02
to be discovered and the the private investigators are not going to be able to work that lead or that angle to the
00:49:09
completion of someone's arrest what they will do then is hand it over to Toronto
00:49:13
police and they will get involved and they will find the people that did this and they will trace it back to whoever
00:49:20
hired them to do this I think there are multiple people probably involved in this whole thing
00:49:26
and here's where I have a big problem I I I you know with me well no this is where I have a problem with the Toronto
00:49:35
police department you're really just harping on them today yeah yeah I'm going to so if
00:49:41
you're listening up there Toronto guys about to school you here yeah they already turned it off last time you talk
00:49:46
[ __ ] about them I'm about to school you here okay okay because in the beginning
00:49:52
when you came out and you said where there's no signs of forced entry mhm uh we are not seeking any suspects at this
00:49:59
time look I get that you you were trying to be professional I get that here's what you should have said what you
00:50:06
should have said is look we don't have any answers for you at this time we have a lot of evidence that we are sifting
00:50:13
through and we will have we will have answers for the media and for the family very soon there will be a result and a
00:50:21
conclusion after we have poured through the evidence mhm and why is that your statement to the public because look
00:50:29
these guys that got away that that took everything with them that they walked in
00:50:32
the house with let them think that they left something at the scene let them squirm let them think that they left
00:50:39
something at the scene let them tear their hair out trying to figure out what they left at the scene and all you have
00:50:45
to say is we have a lot of evidence to sift through and we will have answers for you when you when you say that
00:50:52
there's no signs of force entry when you say that we are seeking no suspects that
00:50:56
to me shows guys showing up and going we don't really know what we're looking at
00:51:00
here we don't want the public to panic so we're going to say uh make it make them understand that we're not we're not
00:51:06
actively seeking anybody what's the worst case scenario even if you think that these people were targeted or if
00:51:12
you think that it was a murder suicide worst case scenario the people in the area they stay on high alert for a few
00:51:19
days they watch their backs they lock their doors they love their hug and love their children and wives and keep safe
00:51:26
that's the worst that could happen the other thing is these criminals could have made mistakes had
00:51:33
they believed that they left something behind they could have made mistakes later after the fact I think that I
00:51:40
think that Toronto police blew an opportunity here to to one I think it would have been advantageous for them to
00:51:50
present it that way to the media and then on top of that guess what somebody some somebody on their team I don't know
00:51:57
what level it was somebody somewhere had a cup of coffee with somebody had a beer
00:52:02
with somebody sat down to breakfast with somebody and told him we think we're looking at a murder suicide because her
00:52:08
face was all busted up and his wasn't mhm so you had the time to come up you had the time to leak that and that's not
00:52:15
the whole Department's fault that's one individual's fault I guess captain this is a long- winded version long-winded
00:52:21
way of me saying you're amped up man I don't know exactly who did this and I I think though that there's going to be a
00:52:28
paper trail to to someone that's responsible for this at some point whether it be the person that hired the
00:52:35
hit or the one that performed the hit I think it's likely performed by more than
00:52:39
one person it could even be hired by more than one person I think that somebody in one of those three groups
00:52:46
that we discussed big Pharma the unknown unknown or the family had something to do with it yeah because I I think
00:52:55
sometimes times law enforcement is thrown off by when they go well this is a personal way to attack somebody well
00:53:01
you can hire somebody to attack somebody in a personal way I want you to kill them this way I think whoever wanted
00:53:08
them dead wanted them to know why they were [Music] dying this week we got some recommended
00:53:23
viewing for you one can only read so many books in a lifetime we were recommending everybody check out the
00:53:29
Evil Genius on Netflix it's a four-part series it's based on the pizza bomber or
00:53:36
collar bomber case whatever you want to call it out of Erie Pennsylvania strange
00:53:40
story here I won't go too much into the case itself but the four-part series is very well done we were planning to cover
00:53:47
this case at some point we had it on our short list and it was going to be the topic of one of our meetings captain and
00:53:54
before we could make it onto the actual list to be covered I got I saw some information that Netflix was releasing
00:54:02
this it came out a couple weeks afterwards watched it they did such a good job on it I encourage everybody
00:54:08
else to watch it out there if you still want us to cover it let us know and we'll consider it but I think Netflix
00:54:14
did a good job and it's called Evil Genius and I won't be watching it yet because um I have a hard time watching
00:54:21
anything about pizza so until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause]
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