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foreign [Music] foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you for listening I'm your
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host Nick and with me as always is a man that would like to inform you that big Tech is spying on you right now he is
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the captain that's why when I get out of the shower I do one extra shake and one
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extra wink it's good to see you and it's good to be seen thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] this week we are very proud and happy to be featuring cheer team ale by the
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highest and mightiest of the Indiana Brewers The Floyds that is three Three Floyds garage grade four and a half
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bottle caps out of five I love the untapped description here because it is spot on this IPA is an instant classic
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the very fruity and may we say juicy hop character is unrelentingly delicious and
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this week's beer is brought To Us by these awesome characters right here first up we have Laura C from Texas and
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a big we like your jib from Jody from Fort Wayne Indiana and here's a little rock cheers to Jessica down in Little
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Rock Arkansas and a big cheers to Kelly and West Jordan Utah next up we go out west and say thank you to our friend Amy
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in Chino California and last but certainly not least we have Shelby who is a big Captain fan down in Jaguar
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country down in Jacksonville Florida everybody we just mentioned went to True Crime
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Stitcher premium and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer
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let's talk some true crime [Music] foreign [Music] on the evening of March 6 1962
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9 year old Taxi Driver Neville Knight was picking up fairs in Sydney's west side
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Neville was retired from the Navy where he was a morse code expert after the Navy he thought he would drive
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a cab making some money while driving around it would be like he was his own boss
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recently he had been wanting to get out of the cab business he was married and had a three-year-old daughter at home
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but daytime jobs were hard to come by so he figured with bills to pay and mouse to feed
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he would just keep driving the cab until he found something better it was late in the evening when he
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picked up a boy in Moore Bank as usual the boy opened the back door of the cab and sat down behind night
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thought the boy to be about 16 years old and he was happy to take him wherever he
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needed to go for a fee of course the boy gave instructions on where he needed to go
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but other than this he said very little they got just about to where they were heading when they ran into some trouble
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Knight drove to Fairfield West as instructed but once there the boy was unsure of the exact location
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he was looking for a house but it was a place he had only been one time before and he was having some trouble
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remembering just where the house was but he said I'll know it when I see it Knight didn't care
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he had a whole shift to finish and better to be driving around with someone in the car running up the meter
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they continued driving up and down streets looking for the house Knight was driving just under 40 mile
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per hour when he heard a loud explosion reacting to the deafening noise Knight tried to slam on the brakes but the car
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continued he then tried to push in the clutch but he could not feel nor move his leg
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he quickly grabbed the handbrake and pulled the car screeched swerved and then came
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to a stop the boy in the back seat jumped up and hopped out of the vehicle he then opened the front door to the cab
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Neville Knight was still very unsure of what had just happened he was in pain he couldn't seem to move either of his
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legs thank God he was not alone and now I've got to tell this boy to go and get some help he thought
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now with the front door open the boy looked inside he said nothing stared at Neville
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slowly studying him with his eyes and then just like that the boy ran off into the darkness
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[Music] [Music] many people travel to Australia for many many different reasons it's a popular
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destination for outdoor enthusiasts people go there for all kinds of things hiking camping and just traveling the
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land by different means of travel now like in the U.S at one time hitchhiking was commonplace in fact it was even
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encouraged and enjoyed especially by the younger Travelers low on funds it was a
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cheap and adventurous way to get from place to place hitchhiking in Australia for the most
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part was considered to be safe this being decades ago if you were traveling in pairs or in a group now let's start
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off on January 25th 1990. we have a young man here named Paul onions he's 24 years old now he's from the UK but he is
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in Australia on holiday he had been there for about a month traveling seeing the sights and getting
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around by several means of travel but on this day he was looking to hitch a ride
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he's looking to hitchhike so he's standing out at the edge of the Hume Highway some sections of this are
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now known as the Hume freeway or Hume Motorway this is one of Australia's major Intercity National highways
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spanning over 500 miles and it runs between the major cities of Melbourne and Sydney now Paul is about a mile or
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so from the balanglo state forest he's got his thumb in the air but he's having no luck really so far with any offer for
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a ride so he starts walking South eventually he decides to take a break stopping off to grab a drink and a snack
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it is here that a man approaches Paul the man is muscular with a dark mustache and he introduces himself as Bill they
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get to talking and eventually Bill offers Paul a lift Paul told Bill where he was hoping to
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get to and Bill agreed that he would drive him over 200 kilometers Paul and Bill climbed into Bill's silver
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four-wheel drive and they drove off as they were driving South the normal conversations took place now this drive
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could be a long one it's probably going to be maybe a three hour drive at most so after about an hour according to Paul
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Bill started getting weird he was looking around a lot as he drove his behavior voice and words were becoming
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increasingly aggressive and angry he was spouting out racial slurs left and right
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this of course is making Paul very very uneasy he doesn't know this man and this
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man is behaving strangely Bill stops the vehicle he's telling Paul that he's got to retrieve some cassette
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tapes from the trunk of the vehicle so that they can listen to them now Paul is already on edge right and he looks over
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and he sees cassettes inside the vehicle so the reasoning for stopping is not making a lot of sense to Paul
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this is enough to make Paul seriously question what this man named Bill could be up to
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after Bill got out of the vehicle Paul did as well this apparently upsets Bill basically with a growl he tells Paul to
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get back in the vehicle Paul decides he better play along Bill reaches under the seat and he pulls
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out a revolver sticking the nose of the gun in Paul's face Paul says he could see the shiny bullets
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in the cylinder Bill tells him that this is a robbery then he produces some rope
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Paul is terrified he jumps out of the vehicle he runs as fast as he could right into uncommon traffic
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bill is now yelling at Paul and then he starts pulling the trigger the cars swerve to avoid hitting Paul
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but they just keep on driving finally Paul is able to flag down a van he jumps in from the sliding side door
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Paul is screaming to the people inside he's got a gun he's got a gun the driver sees the man with the gun the
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man appears to be going back to his vehicle the driver is Joanne Barry and with her is her sister and five kids
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Joanne is desperate to get away and she does not want the man with the gun following her especially with a van
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full of kids Joanne goes in reverse makes a U-turn and now facing the opposite direction
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she slams the pedal to the floor and speeds off she drives Paul to a police station
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there he reports the attack he gives a description of the man and tells them the man that he knows only as Bill said
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that he is a road worker he also provides a description of the gun and the vehicle now Paul he was like super
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panicked right when fleeing this vehicle so of course he left behind everything that he brought with him he leaves
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behind his backpack this held everything that Paul was traveling with including his passport
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so not only does he provide them a description of the man the gun the vehicle and some of the things that this
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man Bill told him he also leaves him a good description of the items he left behind in Bill's vehicle a police did
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send out the description of the man and the vehicle they were looking for this man who attempted to commit an armed
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robbery that's the way this was reported nothing came of the search for the Armed
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robber they never found the suspect never made an arrest by June of 1992 The Missing Persons unit was quite busy as
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missing persons cases they were piling up at a faster Pace than normal the Sydney Morning Herald ran several
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articles regarding this one by Christian rail this was particularly interesting it
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says police were optimistic in one of the cases this was of two missing women Caroline Jane Clark and Joanne Leslie
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Walters both 22 years old were visiting Australia and they were there on a working holiday
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police were optimistic that they would find the women alive and well this is because they received over 100 calls
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from people all over the place saying they have seen the two English women the women were missing sometime it's
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believed to be like April of 1992. a large number of calls were coming in from the Northern Territory and from
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Darwin police were hoping to confirm the sightings of these women they were able to get a copy of what is
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believed to be Caroline's last letter two missing women were traveling Australia and securing fruit picking
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jobs along their way the letter was written from Queenstown postmarked April 8th this letter stated that they
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intended to go to Sydney and then to canunera I know that I did not say that right there captain
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this was for a fruit picking job it was supposed to last four weeks then they would continue on to Ayers
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Rock so police were optimistic about the sightings however the problem here is none of the ladies have contacted family
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or touched their bank accounts since April the article that I read was from late June so about two months or so that
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it's believed that they possibly have been missing police figured out that Clark and Walters checked out of a
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king's cross Backpackers hostel this too in April and this is the last confirmed sighting of the two women
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what they were looking into is if there is any possibility that this could be connected to the December disappearance
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of a young couple from Germany that young couple just like the two English women their last known
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whereabouts was a king's cross Backpacker hostel the missing German couple is Gabor nugbauer 21 years old
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and Anya haveshied age 20. so by this point in our story Captain we have four missing persons four that have
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made the papers anyway and this is June of 1992. now on Saturday September 19 1992 two
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men found a body in the blanglo State Forest this was around 4 15 in the afternoon
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this is in one of the more dense forest areas of the State Forest the men were out on an orange hearing
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exercise practicing their skills near the Long Acre Fire trail the body was well hid in fact they only
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found it because they were investigating a terrible smell that they thought could
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be coming from a kangaroo carcass which of course was not the case the body was wedged under a rock ledge
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and partially covered with shrubbery the next day police working the scene found a second body just about 40 meters
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from the first the second body was hidden by bushes and was badly decomposed on the scene told reporters that
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although they could not immediately name the cause of death or identify either victim they said they were investigating
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a double homicide Now using dental records they were able to determine the identity of both of the
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victims investigators learned that their victims are Caroline Clark and Joanne Walters both missing since late April of
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1992. Caroline Clark's head and face were wrapped and covered with a maroon sweatshirt she had been shot 10 times
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through the top of her head she was stabbed twice in the back and stabbed once in the chest I believe this
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was an attempted single stab to the heart Joanne Walters was found gagged using pieces of her shirt
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she had been cut and stabbed many times with one of these stab wounds severing her spine which would have left her
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paralyzed during her fight in an attempt to flee from her attacker or attackers now reports vary on the level of
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Mutilation here with stabs reported as high as over 30 times and as little as 20 times either way what we're looking
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at here is a frenzied knife attack that killed her one of the things that I find
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extremely interesting here is the statements by the investigators right very early on in this investigation they
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are saying that they would be expecting to find more bodies all right we have two victims we already
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have two victims so I can see where they're stating hey In This Very dense forest location in a place where bodies
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would be extremely hard to find and locate you know these bodies aren't just lying
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on the the trail there they're off well off of the trail and they're concealed almost buried under brush
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even the descriptions in some cases describe the bodies as that as being buried and then the other one like
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stuffed behind bushes and things like that the interesting thing here too is one
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they are seeing things at this crime scene at the murder scene where they it's very obvious to them that they are
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looking for potentially more bodies the other thing you got to wonder too we describe the injuries and what could be
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the cause of death in both cases there's a lot of Overkill involved in each of these attacks so maybe that as
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well is leading them to making the statement the thing here as well we have the transient lifestyle that the two victims
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were living at the time of their disappearance this also certainly drastically increases the chances that
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we might be looking at a stranger on Stranger murder or strangers on Strangers attack and murder
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the balanglo force let's talk about this location where these two victims bodies
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were found this is an important aspect to this crime into this case and it will also help to steer the direction and the
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focus of their investigation the state forest is in New South Wales and located three kilometers west of the Hume
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Highway this is a popular Park open to the public and it features Trails for hiking dirt
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bikes quads there are creek crossings and plenty of camping areas the state forest is quite big and it
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looks like the most populous trees there are pine I was able to find actually the you know
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how big of a location this is however the train trying to figure out how to transfer that into our system
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gets a little complicated for me remember didn't go to school for math that was a little bit of computer that I
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was studying now on October 5th 1993 again we are in the blanglo state forest and again we
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are near the long fire acre Trail a man he is out collecting firewood he found another body
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this discovery led to another Finding lying just 20 meters away was an additional body later it was determined
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that they located the bodies of Deborah Everest and James Gibson these two were missing for about four
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years see in late 1989 the two took off together on a backpacking Adventure they
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were both just 19 years old at the time both were recently accepted into college
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so this was supposed to be one of those last Big Adventures before they get serious about going to school
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before leaving James told his mother that they intended to hitchhike their way around to which she tried to talk
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him out of she was warning him that hitchhiking was very dangerous Deborah last made contact with her
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parents calling home on December 28th there was an earthquake that day and she called home to tell them that she and
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James were all right now two days later the young couple left a communal house in Surrey Hills
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the night before they were telling others there that they intended to hitchhike their way down south
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three months later James Gibson's red backpack was found on the roadside and Deborah's camera was found nearby
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but no one knew what happened to the young couple for all of that time until these bodies were found
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a strange thing here Captain those two items James's backpack and the camera after the bodies were found we would
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learn that the backpack and the camera were nowhere near the location of the bodies this is in fact many many miles
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apart apparently the killer or Killers drove these items extremely far away before
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tossing them on the side of the road Deborah was found hogtied her skull and jaw were fractured it does not seem like
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early on that law enforcement were certain of the cause of this fracture but it looks like the cause of death was
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the stab wounds to her head the Sydney Morning Herald reported James was stabbed multiple times including one
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through the spinal cord also stab wounds that punctured his lungs and as the herald put it in both
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cases extreme force had been used and it seemed that the victims had not been able to defend themselves
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now we already mentioned police saying that they were expecting to find more bodies well now
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they're pretty clear about this statement publicly they start stating that the murders were connected believed
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to be connected and that they were searching for a serial killer or killers [Music]
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all right we are back he is back I am back before we get cranked up too much here Captain
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I do want to thank a big thank you to our friend hold on I'm already cranked uncrank yourself uh big thank you to
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Cairo he's the uh B shirt guy that we met a couple weeks ago oh yeah yeah thank you Cairo for the awesome beers
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all right Captain we have still plenty to get to here because on November 1st 1993 we're now in a location that's
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about five kilometers away from where the bodies of Deborah and James were found
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the body of Simone schmiddle was found in this location Simone was 21 years old from a town near Munich
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she was visiting Australia and traveling around now on January 20th 1991 she was
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traveling solo and she told some friends she planned to catch a train to Liverpool and then hitchhike her way
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down the Hume Highway after this she has never seen alive again now some of her items were found four
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months after her disappearance Simone had multiple stab wounds and was stabbed twice through her spine three days later
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on November 4th 1993 the bodies of Gabor nugenbauer and Anya hamsheed were found
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just about one kilometer east of where Simone's body was located both were missing since Christmas of
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1991. this is the missing German couple that we discussed earlier Gabor was double gagged one stuffed in his mouth
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and one tied around his head he had been strangled and looking through all this I could not figure out
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if it was thought to be manual or ligature strangulation but the reports are that the hyoid bone was broken
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he was also shot in the head six times Anna was found under a pile of logs branches and debris
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she was face down and naked from the waist down she had been decapitated from what was
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determined to be a single Blow from a heavy bladed object such as a sword or a machete we are now at seven bodies found
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total in three of the cases we have two persons traveling together only one case
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out of the four do we have someone traveling solo what is common throughout we have witnesses
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or people who saw or spoke to the victims shortly before they went missing stating that the victims were believed
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to be hitchhiking their way around at some of the sites where the bodies were found not too far from where the
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bodies themselves were located we have evidence that the killer spent some time hanging out in the area this could be
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days leading up to the killings meaning in separate visits entirely or immediately after the killings
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what they found was evidence of a campfire near the attacks Plus at one of the body dump locations
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they found like a makeshift firing range where the shooter shot up trees bottles
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and cans now at this makeshift Shooting Gallery they found tons of shell casings spent
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bullets and so on they found two different calibers at one site now they were able to determine
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from the debris left behind by the shooter that all of this stuff had been there
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about the same amount of time this meaning that the two guns were fired the same day or night not not a situation
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where one target you know once target shooting and then returns at a later date with a different
00:28:06
gun for more target practice right it looked to the detectives as though the offender had a silencer on the 22. which
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this also makes you believe that one we have multiple cases where there's two victims and there's different wounds so
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law enforcement might think okay well maybe we have more than one killer and now we have a situation where we have
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somebody shooting off guns but there's two calibers that would also lead to the idea that maybe that there is more than
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one individual yeah and sorry I think I jumped ahead here in my notes Captain they were able
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to determine that one of the calibers that was used at this uh Shooting Gallery let's say was a 22 and they
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could sit out by markings on the bullets that the a silencer was being used with
00:29:02
the 22. well and also with a gun being involved especially in the three cases of the couples that would also lead one
00:29:10
to believe that maybe there was only one attacker because you could control two individuals with a gun
00:29:18
yeah let's we'll get into that in just one second here but before we do so I want to point out that you know we have
00:29:25
law enforcement very early on with the statement of we're expecting to find more bodies and then when they do
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in fact find two more bodies their next statement is we think we're looking for a Serial offender or serial killers here
00:29:41
what is confirmed at some point after seven bodies are found we learned that the there are matching
00:29:50
22 caliber bullets shell casings and cartridge boxes that were found at multiple crime scenes
00:29:59
so not only were they suspicious of this and thinking that they were looking for
00:30:04
a serial killer or Killers now they have confirmation of evidence left behind that these attacks and murders are in
00:30:12
fact connected well at least two of the cases we have a spinal cord being severed that is not a very typical
00:30:20
injury that you see and murders yes and you know we've talked about this before with the Lindsay buziak case
00:30:30
it's for me personally it's awfully difficult to determine if that is in fact deliberate or if in a frenzied
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attack that maybe it just it just happenstance that it occurred I feel like in Lindsay's case it could
00:30:47
have just occurred like I I lean more that way right but with some of these it appears to be much more deliberate yeah
00:30:54
I it's it's strange to me because the amount of wounds you know or amount of times that somebody shot or stabbed to
00:31:04
me there's a rage element here but then there's a calculation element in here as
00:31:10
well welcome to the segment of armchair styling and profiling with the captain and Nick
00:31:18
um but I also think there's a element of calculation here because we see in again
00:31:25
multiple cases where the spinal cord is severed but you also have these this time and this could be happen stance as
00:31:31
well but punctured lungs it's almost like this person is creating a scenario where they the they
00:31:41
want the person to suffer through this these are kind of suffer wounds if that makes any sense well and the need to
00:31:49
like incapacitate them and make it so that they are unable to flee or to fight back during the course of whatever left
00:31:58
what is EV what is left of the attack right and then then you also wonder you sever one person's spinal cord they
00:32:07
can't move they're paralyzed now you can do whatever you want to the other victim and almost make the person
00:32:15
like like I said suffer in pain but also suffer through the attack of the other individual
00:32:21
okay so let's go through the psychological profile of the killer or Killers now there were several profiles
00:32:29
actually worked up for these cases worked up by psychiatrists and criminologist what I did here Captain to save us some
00:32:39
time is I try to combo them for one master profile so first as you were pointing out
00:32:48
it was tricky right they they are uncertain if they should be looking for one or two killers police were having
00:32:56
trouble with this and mainly for reasons that you already pointed out but just to
00:33:01
simplify they were having trouble with how just one person could lure in most cases two victims into the forest
00:33:09
control them and murder both of them plus we have three cases where we have two victims in those cases and these
00:33:19
incidents one victim is more mutilated than the other so could it in fact be two killers this was strongly argued in
00:33:27
at least two of the profiles that were put forward and in both of these they cited that brothers would be
00:33:35
more likely to be the the team of offenders here often when we have two offenders there
00:33:42
is a more dominant personality of one offender and then a more follower type for the other right the profiles that
00:33:51
pushed the two offender Theory cited this as the likely cause for the differing levels of Mutilation between
00:33:58
the victims the other difficult thing here is the crime scenes where it appears that two
00:34:05
victims are controlled attacked killed and partially buried or concealed in separate locations yeah be it close
00:34:12
together but still separate so what they're getting at here Captain is that two offenders this is certainly possible
00:34:20
right it's the idea of okay we we've now attacked our victims all right move your victim to a spot where they
00:34:29
couldn't be found and so if they're separated on some level then you would then the bodies would be separated more
00:34:36
once you go to conceal them where if you have one killer he attacks his victims he he drags one of the victims into a
00:34:45
secluded spot where he thinks this makes the most sense and then you drag the next victim to the same spot yeah and I
00:34:51
think that the reason why they're pointing out this this scenario here is that you likely have two offenders because
00:34:59
they seem to be choosing two victims and then the thought on top of that is why are we finding one victim here and then
00:35:06
one here when we know that they were once together is that possibly that the offender
00:35:12
wanted privacy from the other offender with the victim right so a lot of a lot of uh analysis going on here with these
00:35:21
crime scenes yeah and some pretty detailed analysis too I don't know if I buy this idea that based off what
00:35:28
evidence we have that you can say well these we think they're Brothers if the if there's two killers you know the idea
00:35:36
that you're one stating pretty early on we have a serial killer and we're going to find more bodies and
00:35:42
then you go okay not only do we have a serial killer but we have a a Duo serial killer team and they're Brothers yeah we
00:35:49
we actually have two profiles that were put forward that that shared that thought
00:35:55
um not outwardly saying that they have to be brothers but that was something that they were leaning towards
00:36:01
in their profiles I just wish I knew if there was something more if they had some more evidence whether that was some
00:36:10
kind of or something that would lead them to believe that there would be they would
00:36:18
be related I don't think that it was evidence that was found as far as like fingerprints or or anything of that
00:36:25
nature what they're pointing out here is in cases that they have seen in the past
00:36:30
look it is it is very rare and I know that everybody's going to think of three or four or five cases immediately as
00:36:37
soon as I say this but it is rare for there to be a serial killer team it's it's often they work alone right this is
00:36:44
not Batman and Robin yeah and then even more rare than that would for it to be relate relation that are working
00:36:52
together I can't name one so they don't have there were some cousins in Florida um of course there were actually
00:37:02
brothers in Ohio back in the 70s that I think were were the uh they were looking
00:37:07
for the 22 Caliber Killer I believe was the the moniker that was applied to those cases and it turned out to be two
00:37:14
offenders and they were brothers um you wonder though so it does happen yeah but you said there was a 22 caliber
00:37:21
in this case as well yeah you wonder if it's just you know they're doing some research and going okay well in Ohio
00:37:28
they were looking for killers and it happened to be brothers you know which I mean
00:37:34
first of all you just don't trust brothers from Ohio that's number one rule so the the reason why I think that
00:37:40
they're coming up with this and it's difficult because it is as you pointed out such a small sample size to come up
00:37:47
with this evidence they're they're looking for similarities between solved cases and what they think that they're
00:37:53
looking at and I think where they go to the point of saying that the offenders might be brothers or related I I think I
00:38:01
might have taken it a step too far right maybe one of the profiles just said some
00:38:06
relation but they're saying that they've seen in the past that the victims are separated for the purpose of privacy and
00:38:14
they usually see this when there is a relation between the two offenders where if the two offenders are more just
00:38:22
friends or in on this this thing together there's a hobby together that they actually feed off of
00:38:31
each other more so than what brothers or uh related offenders would so two offenders this is certainly a
00:38:39
possibility but let's go through some other stuff that we know right we have evidence regarding
00:38:46
the Paul onions situation that attack he was picked up by one man not two and when the man using the name Bill tried
00:38:56
to kill him he shot at him so now when creating this profile to be completely fair to all that we're
00:39:05
putting these profiles forward at this time the experts there were not armed with
00:39:10
the information that this Paul onions attack May in fact be connected right so looking at this information that we know
00:39:19
Captain we now can add crimes where we know that a gun was used and we know that from what we found with our dead
00:39:26
victims but we also know that with Paul onion situation adding the use of the gun to the equation means a signal
00:39:33
killer may possibly been able to control more than one victim at a time so starting there
00:39:40
are we looking for one or two let's let's go to that maybe we're looking for just one offender because the other
00:39:46
profiles set out for one offender so this one offender would be somebody who owns and is very comfortable around guns
00:39:54
this man would be average living an ordinary life given the physical nature of his crimes he would be fit and
00:40:02
possibly athletic expect him to be fairly intelligent he is a loner but he is outwardly sociable a talker he lives
00:40:12
on the outskirts of a city or in a semi-royal area right he is employed in a semi-skilled job probably works
00:40:21
outside he has a history of aggression against Authority he likely has a record of some
00:40:28
kind police record they mean and may view himself as some type of Outlaw they also struggled to come up with the
00:40:36
offender's possible age in these profiles this as we have pointed out several times in many other cases this
00:40:43
is one of the hardest details to estimate but again we have a possible eyewitness
00:40:49
so if we go back to the story of Paul onions the the Survivor right if he was in fact attacked by the same man we have
00:40:57
a general idea based off of his description of the man's age and so for the single offender profiles they put
00:41:05
the man's age as being in his 30s or 40s he's a man they say that fits into his surroundings he could be a co-worker
00:41:14
neighbor or a friend meaning kind of like the Delphi situation he's hiding in plain sight
00:41:21
he's probably married or in a stable relationship I like how they throw this little thing
00:41:27
in here too even though she may not know it to him the relationship may be unsatisfactory
00:41:35
uh see if I was a profiler I'd throw in some weird stuff just like I don't know why you had to point out that he had a
00:41:41
criminal record because I don't think anybody was thinking he has a world record for long jump or anything but you
00:41:48
mean me clarifying that it's a criminal record but I think if I was profiling I'd throw in like one or two things that
00:41:54
I knew weren't true but also didn't matter that people would just read over and be like
00:42:00
he he also likes peanut butter and jelly sandwiches you know like some random fact some of this next stuff to me seems
00:42:09
a little vague and I and I'm I maybe I'll just get into it as we go through it to not to not to confuse anybody here
00:42:16
but so they say he gets a sexual and likely and emotional satisfaction from controlling and killing his victims But
00:42:24
ultimately he kills for pleasure for the thrill simply because he enjoys it now although he may not have had
00:42:33
intercourse with the victims he got his kicks by expressing his bizarre deviations through sadistic aggression
00:42:39
mutilation and finally their execution so yeah and there's something you know he could go back we see this from time
00:42:47
to time or they're not actually sexually assaulting the victims but then they're
00:42:52
going home and uh thinking about it and playing you know long games of flicky flicky yeah and I I mean I totally get
00:42:59
what they're saying here there is some suspicion that you know I and I know that they're saying in these profiles
00:43:05
that the crimes are sexual in nature whether or not he's raping or sexually assaulting the victims
00:43:12
there does seem to be some evidence at these crime scenes that there was at least some fondling or
00:43:20
something going on during the course of these attacks and again it's one of those things that you also then
00:43:26
questioned I think if you're taking two victims especially when you have a female and
00:43:33
male combo that could be less likely that it'd be for sexual reasons um because if it was purely
00:43:44
you know sexual reasons then why wouldn't you just take a victim that was you know that the single type victim
00:43:52
that you're looking for you know if you're does that make sense oh 100 uh I think what what we might be looking at
00:43:58
here though Captain is and I and I hate to use some of these terms but but it only makes sense I
00:44:06
think it's the you know where he is hunting plays into a factor of that right so it
00:44:13
whether or not it'd be two offenders or one we have a situation where as you said we got couples
00:44:22
um at least in two of the cases we have a couple and yes it would be a lot easier for a
00:44:29
single offender and two offenders to commit these crimes against one person the problem is I think
00:44:37
regarding this specific situation we noted at the start of this episode that hitchhiking was considered to be
00:44:46
somewhat safe but we pointed out that that is considered to be safe when you're traveling as as a group or with another
00:44:56
person right I mean you see this a lot there's a lot of Americans that go over to Europe right after high school or or
00:45:03
sometime during college to go backpacking through Europe and and you also see this in Australia as well so
00:45:12
having that as a part of your culture and also a part of your economy this also leads towards
00:45:20
well this these are also easier prey because one they're looking for rides they're they're
00:45:28
willing to get into the vehicle well they're yeah because in fact that's how he's picking them up one if you ever
00:45:34
stayed at like a youth hostel or any you know hostel is you know you might be in
00:45:39
a room with four other strangers you're going to fall asleep in a room with you know four other strangers or however
00:45:45
many strangers are in that room um you know unless you want to pay for like you know so you're separated but
00:45:51
most people don't and so you're already in a situation where you're going let's let's see the world and let's explore
00:45:57
this country and and we have to be trusting of all these strangers that we meet along our journey
00:46:05
um so it's really uh it's really a perfect scenario to um to just kind of sit there and pick and
00:46:14
choose who you want to pick up well and but but what I mean by this is not more so that he's doing it out of
00:46:22
necessity rather than as a preference okay so right right right because well first of all somebody's going to be
00:46:30
it's more likely if somebody's traveling alone it would be male than female and so and the the chances of anybody
00:46:39
really doing a venture like that on their own is is probably way less of a percentage as doing it with a group of
00:46:46
people yeah there were some cases in this area that we're talking about that took place in the 70s uh some of them
00:46:54
being unsolved murders and unsolved missing persons cases where the the victim was believed to have been
00:47:01
hitchhiking at the time by themselves and so it was kind of known in commonplace throughout this area that
00:47:08
that you don't do this type of activity by yourself that you should be with with
00:47:13
another person or a group and therefore I mean he might he might have just been doing this because that's all he could
00:47:20
get into his car and we have Ed Kemper who told us that you know it was much easier for him to
00:47:27
get to girls in the car at one time rather than than one they're they're just more
00:47:32
trusting when they have somebody else to go along with them well and I was thinking about this the other day
00:47:37
because we'd talk about controlling you know we've talked about this a lot you know
00:47:44
we've done 300 plus episodes but there's a lot of times where we go okay how did
00:47:49
they get the victim into the car or how do they control two victims and I actually think controlling two victims
00:47:58
wouldn't be as hard as as I've initially thought and that's because let's say you
00:48:05
have a gun or a knife or whatever you have and you're controlling you only have to control one of the individuals
00:48:13
that other individual chances are is not going to take off and run for it because what are you doing if you do
00:48:22
that right it's inevitable that the person that you're leaving behind is a goner right and and they've
00:48:29
actually you know some people will cite cases where a serial killer has has looked for a
00:48:37
couple especially specifically like a married couple or a female and male couple because they find
00:48:46
that sometimes as you said if you can just control one of the individuals essentially you're
00:48:53
controlling both of them and that's also what has been often speculated in theorized in the Delphi murders case
00:49:01
right that yes would it be more difficult yes it but given the relationship of the two involved it
00:49:09
might have just been equally as easy to control both and and there's been many people that have said look those two
00:49:16
neither of them would have run or left the other alone they were there for each other so and you see this also like with
00:49:22
the Zodiac yeah so continuing on with this profile here Captain the next thing is he he would
00:49:31
keep items belonging to his victims that he considers to be trophies some of this stuff is as you pointed out
00:49:40
earlier psychological but some of this is also created by evidence the profile itself right what
00:49:49
we know here is we have these individuals that have been murdered that yes they are out in the middle of you
00:49:55
know nowhere essentially in an area that is very difficult to search and to find
00:50:01
actual evidence but we have multiple situations where it looks like these victims are missing some of their
00:50:08
belongings or all of their belongings so the evidence would tell you this is this
00:50:13
is something that might be psychological but probably more more added to the profile because of the
00:50:19
evidence that is involved we found these people but we didn't find their stuff it
00:50:23
had to go somewhere they believed that the offender or offenders would be keeping some of the items belonging to
00:50:30
the victims and they may consider these to be trophies now one forensic psychologist
00:50:38
in his profile stated that he's talking about a single offender said quote he's bad rather than mad
00:50:48
he's evil he's not crazy is what they're pointing out there and one one thing that is
00:50:55
strange here to me is this reminds me in a sense portions of this profile remind me of Jack the
00:51:05
Ripper a little bit so somebody who kills for pleasure and that the killer the killings are in fact sexual in
00:51:13
nature as they say in the profile though he may not be having sex with them let's take this a step further when
00:51:20
comparing it to somebody like Jack the Ripper and this is this is also stuff that they state in the profile of these
00:51:26
killings as well look this is difficult terrain this is an area that's not familiar to everyone
00:51:33
and so what they want to point out here is that this guy he hunts and he kills in an area where he is familiar and
00:51:41
comfortable that's just like Jack the Ripper did back in the day the difference here to me what I see is
00:51:49
a situation where Jack the Ripper hated women the backpack murderer he hates everyone right he just hates people and
00:51:58
it seems more so like especially those that He considers to be different from himself if we're going to go through
00:52:05
this and believe that they are right in the sense that he hunts and kills in an area that he is not only familiar but
00:52:11
comfortable with it's not a stretch to believe that he's not that he's you know from that area lives in that
00:52:18
area and it was born and raised in that area as well and we have some of our victims here are are foreign to the land
00:52:25
right so then you wonder if he just doesn't like foreigners or or if it makes it easier to I think
00:52:35
it would make it easier I mean think about it this way like they're not from this country and it's
00:52:41
also of a time period where communication isn't instantaneously right you're not going
00:52:47
to be able to they're not texting people right right so it's like somebody goes missing for a couple weeks it's going to
00:52:54
take a while for for that to get back to their family if they're from Europe or whatever
00:52:59
so maybe that's part of it or be but also maybe there's some psychology to it where it's this guy this individual
00:53:07
feels like he's stuck and he's stuck in a a place that he can't get out of and and maybe he is somewhat intelligent
00:53:14
maybe somewhat skilled and he and he feels kind of trapped by um the society he lives in and these people are they're
00:53:24
they're Rome in the the world and they're seeing the sights and they they have uh nowhere to be you know I mean no
00:53:30
no destination well and on top of that too like what they point out in Silence of the Lambs
00:53:37
if the Killer can see the victim I'm going to call you name dropper how many cases uh are you
00:53:46
gonna name um throughout this episode I got a few more of my notes here but um in in the
00:53:53
in the movie Silence of the Lambs they point out that it is it's easier for the killer to kill the
00:54:00
victim if they don't see them as a person if they see them as an object and some of the victims being from a foreign
00:54:07
land maybe they don't talk the same as our offender maybe they don't look the exact same as our offender maybe that in
00:54:14
a way makes it easier throughout the interactions with those individuals to see them as an object maybe even faster
00:54:22
because the other thing you have to wonder too is are there people if he is in fact
00:54:28
finding the victims by way of hitchhiking are there people that he's let go for any number of reasons throughout this I
00:54:38
mean there's a lot to consider here there's a lot to think about Juan another thing about that too is if you
00:54:44
pick up hitchhikers for example right like you're just pulling up you can size up individuals a little bit right from
00:54:54
inside your car while you're pulling up but you take a scenario where you or maybe
00:55:00
the uh the guy appears a little bit larger once you once he gets in the car you know now you you start going okay
00:55:09
well this girl seems strong and this guy seems strong so maybe these are these are people that he could then just take
00:55:17
to their destination and and move on you know I mean so it is a way of you know and I would I would assume like
00:55:26
Ed Kemper would do the same thing you now have them in the car you can kind of size them up you can kind of see if if
00:55:33
they fit your likings and if they don't uh you can you can just drop them off at
00:55:38
the next exit right also one thing here captain that I want to point out before we move on that that I think is
00:55:46
fascinating I think that we have somebody that I would dub like a choice of weapon killer
00:55:52
but on top of that we have a choice of victim type killer right both male and female in some of the cases
00:56:01
and that's fascinating in a sense because we often do not see both genders killed by
00:56:07
one offender so this again may be pointing back to two offenders and then we have multiple
00:56:13
weapons Implements of murder gun knife and rope sometimes sometimes all three are used right but again I think that
00:56:23
points a lot of profilers to the idea that there's more than one attacker I kind of view that as when we talk
00:56:32
about the sexual gratification that the person is getting right that if that is true uh if they are getting
00:56:41
that and that's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around it's probably hard for a lot of us to wrap our head around
00:56:48
um but and if you're if you are wrapping your head around it you might want to go talk
00:56:54
to somebody but um the the thrill or the sensation is probably different with gun
00:57:02
different with knife I mean we have a scenario where we know there was a knife involved we know there was a gun
00:57:08
involved we know there's strangulation we don't know if there was uh rope or not right
00:57:15
but so those are three different acts and then also when you have the decapitation I don't mean to be so gory
00:57:25
but with this decapitation we don't know if this was a machete or some kind of Sword so it's almost like
00:57:34
like you were saying like this person is it knows he's going to pick his victims
00:57:38
and then he's going to have all these things with him because he wants to I think he wants to try
00:57:44
killing in different manners and with different instruments to see if there's different uh sexual gratification
00:57:53
which is which reminds me of a zodiac communique the the one that where he States
00:58:01
by fire by gun by knife by rope foreign again we want to thank you guys so much for joining us each week in the garage
00:58:22
our buddies our Pals thank you thank you thank you thank you filthy animals a thousand thank yous a thousand filthy
00:58:30
animals thank you so much and thank you for sharing on social media join us back
00:58:34
here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind don't live foreign [Music]
00:58:52
[Applause] [Music]