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00:01:42
welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:48
with me as always is a man that knows you should only kill people with kindness he is the mild mannered captain
00:01:55
or you could try a shovel it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening saying thanks for telling a
00:02:01
[Music] friend tonight we are drinking grinder punch by the good men and women at the
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sound Growler Brewing Company in Tinley Park Illinois garage grade four out of five bottle caps this West Coast pale
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ale is brewed with pilsner and Munich maltz add the Pacific Northwest Hops and you have a beer that delivers a pungent
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Aroma with a clean crisp finish stings the nostrils ABV 5.6% and grinder punch was brought to us
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by all of you fantastic folks and a special thanks to David in Bedford Pennsylvania and a big nice jib to
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Captain Tina in Ottawa Canada here's a long distance cheers to Ellie Shiva from Jerusalem Israel and filling up the
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fridge we have Sarah in Pocahontas Arkansas and a shout out all the way to Tara who is in Newcastle Australia and
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last but not least a cheers to Joel and Caroline Springs Australia feel like like to donate to the Beer fund go to
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exciting stuff something we've been working very hard on the captain especially hard on
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wow okay all righty then awkward awkward but it listen up this is fantastic I'm very proud of this we've been trying to
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figure out a way for a long time to bring all of our back catalog to you to everyone for free
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and starting in May m we're that's going to be available to you on the Stitcher app you can get every True Crime garage
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episode from episode one all the way up to today yep and it'll be free on the Stitcher app also on Stitcher premium we
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have our new weekly show it's kind of the behind the scenes show update show it's called off the Record so those will
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start in may as well all right let's gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true Crow
00:04:07
[Music] [Music] d [Music] [Music] well I just spoke with Tinley Park's police chief he tells me this sketch was
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released on the eve of the anniversary on purpose because people tend to have the most interest in this cold case this
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time of year the new 3D image is now hanging inside the police station and it's broadcast everywhere it is an
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enhanced version of a previous sketch drawn from an eyewitness account in 2008 the new photo uses facial identification
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technology to make it more lifelike now whoever that man is entered a Tinley Park Lane Bryant 10 years ago and
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announced a robbery he ordered a group of women into a back room tied them up with duct tape and shot five of them
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dead one of the victims dialed 911 police released a snippet of that call years ago
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911 emergency stay on the line stay on the line police say the suspect's voice can
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also be heard on the background of that call detectives have now isolated The Voice although his words are almost
00:05:58
indistinguishable Tenley Park's Chief says one to two new tips come in on the case every week they
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hope this sketch and voice recording will give them even more leads can you believe it's been 10 years
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no it it's time goes by but we've worked on it steadily for 10 years continue to
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work on it there's five women that that need us to clear this [Music] up [Music]
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in the trailer there Captain we hear the news reporter asking the police chief can you believe it's been 10 years and
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that's exactly the case here in 2008 five women were killed inside of the Lane Bryant store in what police would
00:06:51
describe as a botched robbery or a robbery turned violent now you hear the police chief there stating no we can't
00:06:59
cannot believe that it's been 10 years this is a case that they've worked very hard they've spent millions of dollars
00:07:04
trying to find the guy that shot these five women to death mhm we also still 10 years later they have a full-time
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officer working the case as well as another officer that works the case part-time over the years of I've heard
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from this detective that there have been three times throughout the last 10 years
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where he believed that they were very close to solving the case that they had a suspect three times they had a suspect
00:07:33
that they likeed so much they thought that they were going to be able to provide the families with some justice
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finally after all these years yeah or at least bring charges to these suspects and today we know that they currently do
00:07:45
not have any suspects or anyone that they have named publicly as a suspect in this case now I do before we get into
00:07:53
some things today we got a lot to cover we want to go through the 911 call we want to go through some vehicles that
00:07:59
were in the area at the time some things that could lead us into some thoughts about our suspect here but before we do
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so Captain I kind of wanted to highlight some pieces of the investigation uh along the way so in the very early parts
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of the investigation remember we said that that police had one thing working in their advantage and that was that a
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Tinley Park police officer was parked in a vehicle just that was adjacent to the
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parking lot of the Lane Bryant at the time of the 911 call yeah about 200 yard away yes so this officer was on the
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scene within just a couple of minutes yeah and a couple minutes after that there's going to be multiple law
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enforcements that are going to be at the scene yeah they're they're showing up and arriving to the area multiple police
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departments the the Chicago PD helicopter was was in the air shortly after the crime was discovered so what's
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so weird here Captain is that we have this guy that he kills these women he walks out of the store we can see the
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huge police response that's going on in the area almost immediately afterwards and yet somehow this guy is able to
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disappear as soon as he leaves the store he's not highly noticeable he's he gets
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away somehow he's able to slip back into the fold or hide in the background well
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and we but we do have on video camera two cars that that left one being SUV one being a
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now police investigated they did investigate whether the killer had any connections to one of the victims um
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because as we had stated in the last episode most robbers probably wouldn't hit a clothing store early in the
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morning and probably wouldn't stay 40 minutes like this guy did for the first 51 days of the investigation nearly 50
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investigators work to find the Lane Bryant killer together they logged over 30,000 hours on the case the the cost of
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the investigation surpassed $400,000 this was just in the first 51 days another interesting thing here
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Captain when we talk about the pursuit of this man the pursuit of the killer that fled police even locked down stores
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in the area including a Super Target petmart and Office Max searching the area with guns drawn this case has been
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it's been interesting to research in the sense that I know a guy that lives in the greater Chicago area he's not in law
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enforcement but he's familiar with law enforcement and so he and I over the past couple weeks have been trading a
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lot of emails back and forth about this case and one thing that he told me was that his this his name we'll call him
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Greg I didn't get it permission if I'm allowed to use his name I just uh but anyway one thing he told me was that his
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wife had been in a store that was just within a mile of the lane Bryant store at the time of the killings and she was
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at this uh place called dinner by Design and she was there with several friends of hers and the during this time the
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Tinley police stormed in they they had their hands on their holsters some of them had guns drawn and they locked the
00:11:17
door behind them when they came in to search the business now once the business was cleared they told everybody
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what had happened and said that everybody needed to stay inside and they locked the doors as they left the uh the
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store and then went on to clear another store so they were they were heavily heavily in pursuit of this man with cars
00:11:44
helicopters and on foot well not only the immediate response was huge by law enforcement but they've continued to
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work this heavily and use every technology that they can yeah and they've allowed this to take them down
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some different Avenues in pursuit of this person they even used the IRS to do some background searches for them they
00:12:06
used NASA they had NASA pull satellite images of vehicles that were in Lots outside of the store within minutes of
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shots being fired the secret service has helped with phone records foreign police
00:12:21
agencies have run ballistics test for this case Illinois State Police have screened weapons that turned in or
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brought back to see if they can match it to the handgun that was used by the Killer and I'm assuming that they
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probably ran the DNA as well that's a that's an interesting question and I do do you want to get
00:12:45
into that now because I know you're kind of chomping at the bit to get at that let let me I tell you what let me wrap
00:12:50
this up real quick so I don't forget something okay I just wanted to mention that in this year alone to show you the
00:12:58
activity involved in the community here is that just this year alone they have they have
00:13:04
received 87 leads that were called in and over the course of the 10 years they've investigated and received more
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than 7,000 leads total since the murders so investigators have gone as far as London to check new fingerprint
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technology on the shell casings that were found that day in the village Tinley Park has spent nearly $2 million
00:13:29
on this investigation so the detectives have continued to filter through these leads up to this day they're going to
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continue to do so they've they've categorized and logged all these leads and they've investigated them all so a
00:13:43
huge effort as you had had stated now regarding the DNA this is a big point of contention
00:13:50
for me and it doesn't seem to be a point of contention for anybody else when you
00:13:55
start looking into this case and what I mean by that is I'm not convinced that either a that
00:14:03
they have DNA or that they have good DNA right and here's here's my thoughts on this and and okay so in doing research
00:14:13
for this case one one place that it led me and I think you you fell into this as
00:14:18
well was Reddit there's a lot of discussion about this case on Reddit yeah and it's I love Reddit by the way
00:14:26
it's yeah but it's as as far as a resource it's not always the best in investigative tool because there's a
00:14:34
there's a lot of conversation on there there's a big conversation on there that's that's a unique one and a good
00:14:40
idea a very good idea is that the reason why this case might not be solved is that all these years police have said
00:14:48
that they're looking for a man yeah where where in fact this might be a woman aha got him or
00:14:57
her something um that's my gut feeling that for whatever reason before we even you know
00:15:05
researched this at all for what for whatever reason I was watching some report uh some old news report and I
00:15:13
just went I don't think it's a man well and then my first response to that is well they have DNA right and my first
00:15:22
thought then would be well if they have DNA and they've said for 10 years that they're looking for a man they wouldn't
00:15:27
want to screw up their invest they need the Public's help here right they would not want to screw up their
00:15:33
investigation and say that they're looking for a man when in fact it's a woman that they they would never do that
00:15:39
so that has led people to believe that they've tested the DNA that they had and it's the the evidence points to it being
00:15:46
a man right but maybe they don't have good enough DNA that's where I question this whole thing yeah
00:15:52
or what if you you have eyewitness right that we have a surviving wit and for the record she's always said
00:16:00
it's a man she believes it to be a man which I think we were calling her Martha yes so Martha says I believe that this
00:16:08
guy it was a man then they get the DNA back from under the fingernails possibly because we have fingernail clippings and
00:16:16
we get touch DNA back possibly right and then they test it and they go oh well there's some female DNA here this must
00:16:24
be the victim's DNA and that is it well CU if if it were separate they could decipher that it's separate and
00:16:33
they could figure out that it came from the victim you know they would they would test the victim as well yeah but
00:16:39
not always I mean we've seen cases where they've tested people and then accusations that you know somebody's kid
00:16:45
is not their kid that was you know what I mean so I see what you're saying so Labs can get this wrong so but I just
00:16:51
wonder if that threw them off and they were like well this DNA evidence is no good cuz we don't have uh any sign of
00:16:58
male DNA evidence in this test is what I'm saying I I think you lost me because I I think the the counterargument has
00:17:05
always been it has to be a man because they have DNA evidence I but I don't think that why they think it's a man I
00:17:11
think they think it's a man because of eyewitness and I have not seen anywhere that they said we tested that DNA
00:17:18
evidence and it's a man thank you thank you now now here sorry I'm a little frustrated all right
00:17:25
but before we get too far into this captain my my gut feeling is that it's that it's a man but I'm you're my boy
00:17:31
I'm going to take your back here you're my boy blue well and the reason why I will not discredit the the possibility
00:17:37
of it being a woman is this anytime that I've seen a debate on if it's a man or a
00:17:42
woman the the the person always tries to end the debate supporting the fact that
00:17:48
it's a man by stating they have DNA they would know if it's a man or a woman they've always said it's a man so it has
00:17:54
to be a man like you just said though researching this case for two weeks I couldn't find anywhere I couldn't find
00:18:03
uh I couldn't find it printed in any newspaper I couldn't find it where the video footage of of a officer a
00:18:12
detective a police chief at any time outrightly stating we have DNA of this suspect they they always hint that they
00:18:23
might have DNA they always throw out statements that would suggest that they have d DNA that doesn't mean that they
00:18:30
have DNA on this guy or girl this what this means is they could be trying to put this person off kilter they could
00:18:39
probably be trying to put this person off ease we have DNA that you left at the crime scene because we have
00:18:46
fingernail clippings or we found blood underneath one of the victim's fingernails there were things that were
00:18:52
left at the crime scene this just implies that they have DNA they never outwardly state that they
00:18:58
100% do and not only did you were you unable to find that I was unable to find that and I emailed my friend quote
00:19:06
unquote Greg in Chicago who was well aware of this case and he said the same thing at no point have I ever come
00:19:16
across where the police are outwardly saying that they in fact have DNA and to further that that they've tested it to
00:19:24
confirm that it's a man so I think if that's going to be your argu you're counter punch there it doesn't work for
00:19:31
me because when you throw that out there and you state that that is that is a fact please post that link underneath
00:19:39
your argument so we can verify that check the box and make sure that it's no longer a concern so this is where we
00:19:47
give the homework portion uh from time to time on the show Captain if anybody if anybody finds can find a link where
00:19:53
there is a officer directly involved in this investigation that is being quoted in a newspaper or being interviewed and
00:20:01
and we can see the words coming out of their mouth that they have DNA please post a link to that on our blog at true
00:20:09
Crim garage.com right and so the other problem too is that they said that this in this suspect was possibly 59 to 6
00:20:17
tall so you're talking about uh a gap of maybe 3 in mhm um but now if you go 3 in
00:20:24
lower now you're talking about a gap of five or a height of 5'6 to 5'9 which would be more stereotypical female
00:20:33
height mhm so I I don't know and then the big thing for me is the 911 call now what police have stated or multiple
00:20:43
media sources have stated as they believe that you can hear the suspect's voice on the 911 call yes so do you want
00:20:52
to get to that yes let's go ahead and play the 911 clip that we played yesterday 911
00:21:01
emergency where at stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang
00:21:11
up Captain real quick here I want to throw this out to the listeners there's a tollfree number out there where you
00:21:19
can call and you can hear a longer version of this 911 call and they actually replay the portion that they
00:21:27
believe to be the suspect which is heard in the background and on our clip that we just played you can hear the suspect
00:21:34
well what we believe to be the suspect a little bit in the background as well now
00:21:38
we didn't include this version on the show because frankly the audio that the captain just provided that 911 clip that
00:21:46
is shorter the audio from that is much better than a lot of the stuff out there even that what you will hear on this
00:21:53
toll-free number but the number for anybody out there that's interested and this is also where you can provide tips
00:22:00
too and that's the key thing with this number here the number is 866 853 6222 and that's a number that has been
00:22:10
put up and paid for by the Tinley Park Police Department again that number is 866 853
00:22:18
6222 you can call that here a longer version of the clip and you could leave a tip there as well with your
00:22:26
information now let's talk about that 911 clip a little bit here Captain because there is a portion that that
00:22:34
they do not play In that clip that we played and it's where you can hear what is believed to be the suspect talking
00:22:42
before Roa hangs up the phone with 911 MH now what I did because I had I had a lot of trouble
00:22:51
trying to decipher to decipher what this suspect is saying and so what I did was
00:22:57
I got on online and I did a bunch of hunting around and I thought you know what Let's find let's find the general
00:23:03
consensus of others out there of what they believe that they are hearing now mind you this is very choppy a lot of
00:23:11
it's not full sentences but some of the things that are believed to be being said by the suspect in the background is
00:23:19
as follows that after the after Roa is told not to hang up the phone you hear the suspect going on about something
00:23:28
and it's believed that he or she I guess I should say is possibly saying the following
00:23:34
relax get over here you're such a hero right now that you're such a hero right is is a um one portion of the tape that
00:23:44
is highly talked about but the seem the general consensus seems to be that the word hero is somewhere in there because
00:23:52
I've seen other versions that are very close to that that says something like don't be a hero huh right you don't want
00:23:58
to be a hero right um so something about a hero it's also believed to be heard that he says you're going to die you're
00:24:09
lucky and I'm losing it now during the course this is one thing that we are not hearing and Tinley Park police have been
00:24:17
upfront about this during the course of that suspect kind of rambling on and it actually sounds like he is kind of
00:24:25
directing the hostages or yelling directly at one of them MH in the background there are responses from the
00:24:32
victims that are in the room with him that the police have edited out before it was released to the public right so
00:24:39
there's more information on the original tape that they're not going to release and I think probably for good reason um
00:24:47
but the one thing that I seem to be able to make out pretty clearly is that one line of I'm losing it now I don't know
00:24:55
that I hear exactly that maybe a different slightly different version of that sentence but the word losing seems
00:25:02
to be pretty clear at some point in this audio at the beginning I hear almost like a yo I'm tired of yelling yeah so
00:25:11
let's just play the clip one more time 911 emergency where're at stay on the line stay on the line let
00:25:21
me get you to tinle park don't hang up well let me just Loop the one part where it's you can clear tell it's
00:25:28
somebody else like the third person if you will on the call the suspect line one more
00:25:41
time line right so if I have to mimic that right it's like yo I'm right well what I hear
00:25:53
is and this is not this is not a portion of the tape that we've analyzed I don't
00:25:57
know that others have tried to figure out what the suspect is saying there because the the whispering coming from
00:26:03
the victim and the dispatcher so prominent here I don't know that this has been but it's not important that's
00:26:10
what I'm saying what's not important what I'm saying is not that important on what the person in the background saying
00:26:17
if this is the suspect what I'm doing is just [Music] yo right that's that's my point on
00:26:27
making it more of a it's a it's a woman's voice it's a woman's range I mean you you'd think if it as a man be
00:26:35
like yo I'm tired of Gilling that's way down here we're talking you have to go up
00:26:41
pretty high and the male register to to hit What notes they're that they're saying I mean even when you speak you're
00:26:50
speaking in notes does that make sense so that's what I'm saying to me it's like it doesn't even matter what they're
00:26:55
saying it's like to I audibly hear if that is the suspect in the background and not a victim cuz we do have uh well
00:27:04
we have one victim on the phone so we have four other victims that would be in the room if if they believe they're that
00:27:10
they're not talking and that is the suspect to me that's a female voice right and and but at the same time
00:27:18
though I kind of point out what I think I hear the person to be saying because I think that tells you if it is
00:27:25
the suspect or if it is one of the other victims because to me it almost sounds like the person is saying I'm tired of
00:27:32
yelling looking for blah blah blah almost like the person is is announcing to the people that they've taken hostage
00:27:41
that I'm tired of asking you all these questions why isn't anybody telling me the answers I want to know I'm looking
00:27:47
for this I'm looking for this and then I'm going to leave I'm getting tired of you not helping me out I came here
00:27:53
looking for money and I've not found very much money now I understand understand I I get your point because
00:27:59
when you isolate that spot on the tape and you play it back the couple times that you did is the pitch higher than I
00:28:06
anticipated hearing knowing that I believe the suspect to be a man the answer is yes that pitch is higher than
00:28:13
I anticipated to hear however I just you know our our voices do funny things um everything does funny
00:28:23
I'm just stating that this is a heighten do some funny things you know this is a
00:28:27
situation this is not a calm situation on either part the victims or the suspect and I know that sometimes when
00:28:36
people are yelling some people project a higher pitch at times uh thrown into a stressful situation somebody's pitch
00:28:43
could go up or down uh depending on their emotion at the time as well if this individual is angry or scared
00:28:52
themselves who knows what their voice could do but I agree with you Captain a higher pitch than I would anticipate uh
00:28:59
regarding a male suspect of that size 911 emergency where Atley par stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to
00:29:10
Tinley Park don't hang [Music] up this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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00:31:47
and you know what Captain I know I'm a few days early but uh we won't have an another show out before then so happy
00:31:53
birthday to you my friend I'm officially old it's the captain's birthday aoy aoy all right back to the case you've
00:32:02
been drinking too much well I thought you were going to give me like a nice cheers back and instead of nothing it's
00:32:07
not your birthday you don't nothing happened but uh you know usually somebody goes cheers somebody else goes
00:32:12
cheers and then you move on um surveillance footage now one thing we've touched upon a little bit here Captain
00:32:19
there were some surveillance footage some video taken from the Target Superstore across the street now it's
00:32:26
estim that these cameras well not estimated it's reported that these cameras were roughly 100 yard away from
00:32:34
the what we're about to talk about and this being two vehicles that were spotted in the lane in front of the Lane
00:32:41
Bryant store that were leaving the parking lot around the same time as it's estimated that the suspect was leaving
00:32:49
yeah here's a couple problems with this first of all is the time correct on surveillance like in many cases that
00:32:58
we've covered there's been cameras but the the times weren't correct right so that is one thing that we have to think
00:33:05
about with this surveillance well I I think we can the I've seen the timestamps on the surveillance footage
00:33:14
and it is a little off of this Mark a bit but the report that I found that I find to be the most credible states that
00:33:24
they believe that these vehicles were seen exiting or leaving those spots sometime between 10:46 and
00:33:33
10:49 a.m. so they'd be off the the time would be off on the on the actual tape correct just slightly um by a few
00:33:42
minutes and I think I think the timestamp on the surveillance footage if I remember correctly is slightly ahead
00:33:48
of that it's running a little faster than that but the way that they can kind of determine how accurate the time is is
00:33:56
we have with within you know within maybe minutes or seconds even we have a general idea of what time the police
00:34:03
officer is going to state that he arrived on the scene so once once they can confirm using the other surveillance
00:34:10
footage what time these vehicles were seen leaving they can compare that in comparison to when the officer arrived
00:34:17
to see how close they can get to that time now what are we seeing in the video well first off anybody out there that
00:34:23
has seen this video will 100% back me up on this this is some grainy footage right that was taken from approximately
00:34:31
100 yard away and you police have even commented on this to the point of stating that you know while this is
00:34:39
helpful to the investigation what it does not allow them to do because of the distance is read license plate numbers
00:34:48
right or to possibly identify people that might be sitting inside these vehicles but what it does show is a
00:34:55
small black SUV V and a black sedan now both of these vehicles are at the at the
00:35:02
Lane Bryant and then leaving around the time of the shooting so the thought here
00:35:08
is when police are asking the community for help you know the first thing that they're going to ask is that the driver
00:35:16
of of these vehicles come forward right you know if you were if you were at Lane
00:35:20
Bryant around this time and this is your car come forward we just want to talk to
00:35:23
you see if you saw anything even if you think it's nothing we want to know what you know I find one thing a little
00:35:30
interesting here though if you listen to early reports it states that police are
00:35:36
looking for the driver of the small black SUV as well as the black sedan mhm then if you fast forward like months
00:35:45
later they seem to still be looking for the driver of the small black SUV but we
00:35:51
don't we don't hear them outwardly asking for the driver of the black sedan to come forward so I don't know if that
00:35:57
means that that person has come forward identified told them what they know and it's and they want their identity to
00:36:04
remain anonymous um it's generally believed that the driver of the SUV could be our suspect yeah and I've seen
00:36:14
on several sites we talked specifically about the Reddit site where they did name um several possible models makes
00:36:24
and models of that SUV that's how bad the footage is that being a a Honda or a Kia possibly a Toyota I I've not been
00:36:33
able to find where police have stated we believe it was this make this model this
00:36:39
year nowhere could I find that so for purposes of staying on task I think that we continue to report that it is a small
00:36:48
black SUV that is in question and again it seems to be be that out of these two vehicles it's believed that the suspect
00:36:56
might have been in that fleeing the scene in that small black SUV well what's important about this is if you
00:37:03
knew about this case lived in the area if there was somebody that you possibly suspected could have done this then you
00:37:09
kind of reverse engineer it did they have a black SUV a small black SUV that they would be able to use now one thing
00:37:18
I also want to point out there that we heard in an earlier clip today that we used for today's trailer the start of
00:37:24
the show was that you heard the reporter stating that 10 years on the 10y year anniversary of this case uh of the
00:37:32
shooting at Lane Bryant and it being unsolved now for 10 years that police released a 3D composite sketch of our
00:37:40
suspect and I like this Captain because to me when I look at this 3D version and
00:37:46
if if anybody of anybody out there is familiar with this case and hasn't done any internet sleuthing on it in a while
00:37:53
I beg you to get on your computers on your tablet and check some stuff out because that 3D image is one it's very
00:38:00
haunting you almost feel like you're staring directly at the face of the person that did this that's how detailed
00:38:06
it looks to me we'll put that on the website and Instagram Twitter Facebook all that stuff and two the original
00:38:13
composite sketch I felt was pretty General um it didn't I don't felt like it gave me a good sense of what I should
00:38:21
be looking for who I should be looking for as where the the de detailed three account was much better for that well I
00:38:29
feel I feel like we've covered a lot do you have any questions that you think we
00:38:33
should go over well that's a big part of the frustration regarding this case yes
00:38:38
I do feel like we've covered a lot I feel like we've answered some questions however I feel like there's a lot of
00:38:44
questions out there and again I know we we say this a lot we sound like a broken
00:38:49
record we understand that the in investigation has to hold some things back I feel like there are a few items
00:38:56
out there that could really help especially after 10 years when you're really asking the public to come forward
00:39:02
and help you out with this situation yeah the sketch will help but it would be nice if there was some other piece of
00:39:08
information that they could give us well and that that's what I mean here and I wonder if you know what are they holding
00:39:15
on to is what they've released is that just the tip of the iceberg I mean they've released what they believe to be
00:39:22
a 3D composite sketch of the suspect right they've released video footage of a possible suspect vehicle we've also
00:39:32
heard Snippets of the 911 call where you can kind of hear the suspect in the background shouting or yelling or or or
00:39:40
communicating with the hostages right the some things that I call into question here though is we we get a nice
00:39:46
good description of what the suspect was wearing that day even down to the point
00:39:52
of the potential thought that there might have been uh some type of packaging tape or duct tape in the
00:39:57
suspect's coat pocket possible that the suspect had manicured fingernails but the weird thing here is
00:40:06
we we also hear that the suspect may have left behind a baseball cap if that's the case can we just say
00:40:14
for sure if that happened and two can we see what that thing looked like that what team was it right or or well
00:40:22
actually I I say baseball cap as a general term um and I think it's been reported that way but it could just be
00:40:28
some kind of hat uh a baseball style hat right um so maybe no team on it but could be a company could be any there's
00:40:37
a lot of indicators on there that could help get you to the conclusion of the identity of this person you know people
00:40:44
can recognize an article of clothing just as well as they can a grainy ve surveillance footage of a vehicle or a
00:40:52
possible composite sketch of the actual suspect was there in fact a hat that was
00:40:58
left behind if so what does it look like I would love you know I would love if they would release pictures of that the
00:41:04
other item too I I wish that forget the DNA I'm I'm going to get over the DNA we don't need
00:41:11
to know if they have DNA or not they can they can handle that portion of it but I
00:41:15
think these things are a little more simpler that I have glad you're going to let them handle that I'm going to let
00:41:20
I'm going to let that go but here's the other thing the possibility that the suspect remember we said that he was
00:41:27
using the rules of some type of delivery MH and he had papers with him that were
00:41:32
supposed to be a part of that delivery well here's my guess I'm guessing that the you know these women that were at
00:41:39
the store these are not dumb ladies there was something on those papers that that guy had and what I mean by that is
00:41:47
that he's not going to be able to walk in there with some blank pieces of paper or something that has nothing to do with
00:41:53
anything at all and just be able to go hey hey I'm here to do this delivery my name's Joe you know and and and Roa and
00:42:01
these other ladies fall for it she was doing preventative measures to call another store thinking that there was a
00:42:09
potential mixup in some kind of delivery now yes he could have likely found some
00:42:14
pieces of paper somewhere that look like they're from a delivery he could have grabbed an invoice from somewhere else
00:42:20
but what I'm getting at is there was enough information on those pieces of paper that he was carrying with him and
00:42:29
there's many reports that state that he left those at the scene that the police recovered those right at the very least
00:42:36
could we find out one do they still exist and B what was printed on those papers is there anything on those papers
00:42:44
that would provide any type of information that could lead us to a potential suspect meaning why all these
00:42:51
years later haven't these papers been released to the public to help with this invest investigation and it could be
00:42:57
something as simple as these were papers that this person took from where they worked they took them out of somebody's
00:43:03
car just like the baseball hat there's there's a million ways that somebody can see something somebody can see the right
00:43:11
information and piece it together and you get that phone call you get that tip that you need you are you're wearing me
00:43:18
out man I'm wearing you out you just you're so uh uh passionate well the thing here's the thing we've seen plenty
00:43:27
of cases where we're sitting there 15 20 25 years later and they're like oh yeah
00:43:33
okay we have this piece of information we have this piece of evidence we've been holding on to it since day one let
00:43:40
us show you the general public this now and ask for your help about it now and at some point it gets to be too late
00:43:48
right it just get I don't want to be sitting here 20 years from now and they're like here's here's the papers
00:43:53
here's the ball cap tell us what you think yeah so what do you think on this case as far as a suspect goes let let me
00:44:01
go go through this one at a time here I only got two things to go through yeah okay so one before the other but the
00:44:09
first one is the ca the case is very strange to me in the sense that it seems like a strange Target unless this person
00:44:18
was just looking for a 00 but to me that that would be like a smash and grab that
00:44:25
would be like get in there create as little chaos as possible get your $200 $300 and then get the hell out of there
00:44:33
that's not what happened in this situation for some reason this person decided that they needed to take these
00:44:41
individuals to the back room what is what is reported as a an employee break room in the back MH which seems like a
00:44:48
strange place to me I thought I thought with the rules of the delivery that you're trying to work one of two angles
00:44:55
either a you're trying to get into the store before it opens up where either you think that there's more money
00:45:00
involved in the robbery or where you won't have to encounter any customers so if you're not if you're not using it to
00:45:08
do that and he was aware that the store was open then the only other reason for using the rul of of a delivery is to
00:45:16
maybe work your way into the back parts of the store into the office of the store without causing a commotion out in
00:45:23
the store Front you know on the floor as they say mhm maybe that's what he was using these papers for but it seems like
00:45:32
a strange Target to me it's Str seems like a strange way to carry out a crime the other thing too is if you worked
00:45:39
your way back to the office using those papers it sounds to me that additional customers came in later while this
00:45:48
robbery was in progress so he took time out from what he was doing to go and capture these two individuals take them
00:45:56
to the same location and bind them as well it sounds to me like we have a situation I don't I don't know why he
00:46:05
was in that store for as long as he was the the the sexual or why he would rob a
00:46:10
store like that anyways well and the sexual component to this is very weird as well now I know it's not terribly
00:46:17
uncommon for for an offender to fondle one of the hostages or say weird sexual things to one of the hostages I know
00:46:26
it's not terribly uncommon but it seems odd to me that this individual picked a Lane Bryant store where you might expect
00:46:36
to find nothing but females there right and then that sexual aspect occurred if if money was the thing why aren't you
00:46:43
just getting your money and getting the hell out of there yeah it could be sexually motivated and then the 91 call
00:46:50
911 call was placed that spooked them they had to get out of there or this person's incredibly
00:46:57
unstable because it it it's Ah that's what I think it's it's either there's a sexual component to it or this person
00:47:05
got in there didn't really know what they were doing started losing control fast or got angry because whatever or
00:47:13
however much money they thought they would get they didn't get and they got angry at the hostages and then like you
00:47:18
said now they're already angered and then they find out about the 911 call they Panic or they're angered more and
00:47:25
they're going to take out that anger on all of those women there now my theories
00:47:30
on who this person is they're not super detailed um but my gut tells me that this person is not local to Tinley Park
00:47:39
in any way the the 20110 de demographics of the area it would have been 88.8% Caucasian 3.7% African-American and 3.9%
00:47:53
Asian so just playing the numbers there there would tell me that this individual
00:47:58
might not be local to the area plus I also do not think that it's any coincidence that the Interstate 80 is
00:48:06
right there right there by the scene right by the store he could have walked into any store that he wanted he chose
00:48:13
that store for a specific reason I also believe that this was not the first time
00:48:19
this was this may be the only time this man was ever in this Lane Bryant store meaning
00:48:26
he didn't case the joint in advance for this robbery and I have two points to this thought one the guy walks in and
00:48:34
it's thought that he was looking at the ceiling looking for cameras and two the surviving witness who worked at
00:48:42
the store you know this the majority of the time the Super majority of the time the clientele is strictly female at this
00:48:52
store not male and so it's possible that if this man had been in the store before
00:48:56
that he might have stood out in some form that may have been memorable to her and she doesn't there we don't have any
00:49:03
evidence that she has seen this person before the day so that that's my only thoughts on it that the guy probably
00:49:10
wasn't local and I do believe that was his first and only time in that store all right is that your thought done
00:49:20
that's as much as I have okay well you keep saying he and I'm going to keep saying
00:49:26
she I believe that this is a female I believe that the surviving witness did not get a good enough look at this
00:49:36
individual um I think maybe she heard this individual and it was maybe of a more of a male tone to begin with and so
00:49:46
that's she's assuming she saw a man that's just what my gut is telling me that's also what my ears are telling me
00:49:54
when I listen back and if that is the suspect on that 911 call to me that sounds like a
00:50:00
female why I think it's more of a you know super bikes type thing where this individual she went
00:50:12
into this Lane Bryant at some point she you know had bad service something I don't think the motivation
00:50:21
was to rob the store I think the motivation was some type of revenge and that's why let's gather up all these
00:50:28
people and let's put them in the back and let's duct tape them I don't know how long the person
00:50:34
thought they were going to be in there for but I think once that 911 call went out and she saw it she killed all the
00:50:41
people and then she left and I think she left in the small black SUV and most men
00:50:48
I would you know maybe this is sexist on some level but it's like most men will drive bigger SUVs women will drive
00:50:56
smaller SUVs so that's and the manicured fingernails that would make that make sense and there's just little things
00:51:06
that are really hard to explain in this case but they start making a little more
00:51:09
sense like the cornrow with the braid in front starts making a little more sense
00:51:14
when you go well that's that's more of the way a female would do their hair mhm so that's just what my gut is telling me
00:51:22
and that's what my ears are telling me and I think it was something like where the person felt wronged and they were
00:51:27
going to prove a point you know or they're going to kill people I mean this this person is psycho well and that's
00:51:35
that's what I mean and and I'm you know I'm sticking with my thoughts but that's
00:51:39
what I mean and I I like that you bring up the super bike case that we've covered here because that was really
00:51:46
when once that thing was solved you're like holy [ __ ] this whole time the motivation would make no for this
00:51:54
murders in this crime would make zero sense to anybody but the person that perpetrated the crime right and the
00:52:01
biggest problem I have with this Lane Bryant case is why if they were there to Rob why did they stay in the store for
00:52:07
so long 40 minutes is a long time when you're trying to rob the store especially that's why the the phone call
00:52:14
from the manager to another store would be important to me because if 25 minutes
00:52:18
of that was this quote unquote delivery person just standing around waiting for information right then then 40 minutes
00:52:25
doesn't seem so long but if that phone call happened within minutes of that individual walking into the store this
00:52:31
person stayed in the store for an incredibly amount of long amount of time right and
00:52:36
furthermore here's what you wonder to on on your part if this was a Revenge killing or if this was for reasons we
00:52:45
will never understand then how long did this individual intend on staying in the
00:52:51
store was it only the 911 call that stopped them from stay who's to say this person wouldn't have
00:52:57
stayed in there as long as possible and kept picking off the individuals as they
00:53:01
come in each customer comes in they are quickly escorted to the back room they're bound and they become another
00:53:07
hostage MH so I I like where you're thinking is the other thing too with the surviving witness it may have in in a
00:53:15
hyper panic situation like this it may have simply been enough that if a female offender was wearing Male clothing right
00:53:25
that might have thrown her off and she might fully believe that she saw a male when in fact it was a female all right
00:53:33
so I guess I'm right you're not right but it's my birthday so I'm right no I I don't think you're wrong I'm just not
00:53:40
changing my opinion but you're just not going to say I'm right here we go Captain So speaking of females this
00:53:46
week's recommended reading we are recommending hell's princess the mystery of bell gunnis The Butcher of men by
00:53:53
Harold sheer and I've mentioned his name before on this fabulous show that we do
00:53:59
I've also recommended his books before Harold sheer is one hell of an author and one of the best researchers out
00:54:05
there so I recommend that you pick up hell's princess this is the definitive rendering of one of the most brutal of
00:54:13
all female serial killers this book had me on the edge of my seat into the last page so check out Harold sher's new book
00:54:21
Hell's princess and if you're ever looking for good True Crime books to read make sure you go to our
00:54:27
website True Crime garage.com CU we do have the recommended page and there's a a list yes and for everything True Crime
00:54:34
Check out true crime garage.com and for all of our garage friends out there that
00:54:39
are on social media you can follow us at True Crime garage if you are following make sure you wish the captain a very
00:54:48
happy birthday a happy birthday to you Colonel until next time friends be good be kind and don't litter
00:55:04
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