00:00:22
All right, did you uh happen to see the the fight? Yeah. to fight the big fight? I didn't watch
00:00:30
the fight. They They come asking me if I want to fight the big fight. Yeah, I'll fight
00:00:35
the big fight. Let's see me get my face kicked in. Conor was stopped at uh fourth round.
00:00:46
I think they claimed that it was a rear naked choke. It was basically just the dude cranking on his neck. Mhm.
00:00:55
And right when he gave it up, too, like he You could almost see like he put himself in position like just take my
00:01:01
neck. Which the guy the whole you know uh the Russian Khabib um kept saying all you
00:01:08
know the whole time this this guy gets tired and he uh gives up his neck. Mhm. And he quits. And that's his way of
00:01:15
quitting and but was what was interesting was he would not let go of the you know once you tap Mhm. you're
00:01:25
supposed to let go and he would not. And then the referee had to pull him off while he still then starts talking all
00:01:33
this trash to Conor while Conor's just kind of sitting there and the next thing you know
00:01:39
the guy that won Khabib jumps over the fence. Mhm. And goes and tries to attack somebody
00:01:47
from Conor's team and then this whole almost this whole riot breaks out. And then you have
00:01:53
three guys from Khabib's team that jumps in the ring and starts punching Conor. Uh which they claim that the three guys
00:02:02
that jumped in the ring were arrested but then released because Conor wouldn't press charges.
00:02:09
And I thought maybe the the the arena could press charges. Mhm. You know what I mean? Like
00:02:19
the individual shouldn't Let's let's leave this up to Conor. So Yeah, I I don't know I saw um
00:02:28
I didn't see the fight but I did see the highlights if you want to call them that.
00:02:33
I mean, really when it when the room breaks into a brawl, I don't know if you call that a highlight. It's it's it's
00:02:38
something um uh that of course I like some action but it's also like come on guys like it's
00:02:46
kind of um uh depressing sign of of some of the individuals in that room. I don't know
00:02:53
the way that that works though but you bring up an interesting thing because had uh you would think UFC or whoever
00:03:00
was in charge of the fighter or at least the arena would want some kind of charges
00:03:06
to be held even if it just results in a fine because you you don't want to you know
00:03:12
we saw this with the NBA years ago. You don't want to let this slide or it will happen again you would think you know
00:03:19
these these are um high high intense individuals and they get worked up. Dude shouldn't have flown
00:03:27
over the fence and come at anybody but um you know And you got to see it, too, cuz when he
00:03:34
goes jumping off the mat I mean he looks he looks very similar to like one of the
00:03:40
like flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz. Mhm. Like just like the way he pounced.
00:03:46
I mean he looked as if he was flying in air. Right. and it he almost it was a flying kick.
00:03:55
He almost landed the flying kick against the guy he's trying to land against and
00:04:00
and it's a tough situation, too, cuz I've followed Conor's rise of Conor McGregor and
00:04:07
always um I think I I appreciated the fact that he came from nothing. He was trying to make
00:04:14
something of himself. Uh and he would always talk about the times that he wasn't something and now he is
00:04:21
something. And this this whole leading up to everything was just kind of disappointing
00:04:28
uh in the way he talked and the way his actions um and the other guy I think as much as I've never been a big fan of
00:04:41
Khabib um I started becoming more of a fan of him. Mhm. Oh, you're going to show up
00:04:47
late to the press conference? I show up on time. I'm professional. Mhm. And then
00:04:51
I leave. And uh even Dana White said it was one of the best counter to the mind war that
00:05:00
you play was I'm not going to play your games. You don't show up on time, I leave.
00:05:06
Right. And um he even stated a couple times, "Hey, I understand that we have to talk trash
00:05:12
to each other but when every other word is a curse word and you have some kids watching
00:05:18
you know again now people could say look this sport's not for everybody and maybe it's not for kids
00:05:24
but I respected that idea. So here's this guy that remains calm, stays in control
00:05:33
fights his fight. It's not a perfect fight. I That's the other thing that's been driving me nuts
00:05:39
is how many people have said how much he's dominated the fight. Like no uh the first round was boring.
00:05:47
Second round he dominated. Third round I think Conor won that round. And then in
00:05:52
the fourth round obviously he gets the the tap out but but at that moment you have a chance to
00:05:58
be champion not just um of the UFC but champion of your people. He's from uh Gannistan um
00:06:10
Kazakhstan. And every from what I've heard since he's Just outside of Utah, right? Yeah, yeah.
00:06:17
Right outside Michigan. It's It's the If you put your hand up, it's over here by
00:06:22
the index finger. Um but he was a wrestler he a national champion. He won grappling
00:06:31
events and but because he got so big in the UFC pretty much any building from where he's from that has a basement
00:06:40
is now you know a wrestling um uh what do you I don't know class or whatever. You know they have all these
00:06:50
classes. So these have been popping up all over his country. And it would just it would have been uh
00:06:57
he you know and even both these individuals said they're not going to shake hands and they're not going to
00:07:02
shake hands after and I get it sometimes people just hate each other but what you
00:07:06
normally see is people say that Mhm. and then at the end they hug it out. And they
00:07:12
sometimes they raise both each you know both hands or or you know give some respect and that's kind of what the
00:07:18
sport is about. And it's just such a being a boxing fan and all this stuff and trying to get buddies of mine that
00:07:25
like boxing to be like oh man MMA is just as good and then you see this and you go ah such a
00:07:33
uh depressing way to end this awesome event. So it was uh but whatever. I mean what can you do?
00:07:41
Your your your heroes are going to fall eventually. Well, I like this the idea of the new
00:07:47
champion that you said that he uh tries to hold himself and carry himself a little differently than uh McGregor and
00:07:56
that's interesting. Like you said it's it's debatable if if children should be watching this at all but you know
00:08:03
sometimes parents reward their children for uh you know getting good grades or or being an awesome kid or helping mom
00:08:11
or dad with something and and sometimes kids really want to I remember I was like
00:08:16
I don't know like 15 I wanted to go to Megadeth concert. Um that's probably not a great place for a 15-year-old to go.
00:08:23
Or it's the best place in the world. Right. But but had I got like you know all A's or something I think it
00:08:30
would have been a nice trade-off uh for mom and dad to to let me go to something like that. So hopefully
00:08:37
you know it is a violent sport but if there are kids of a of a decent age if there are younger people watching it
00:08:44
certainly will help. It's definitely better for the sport and the longevity of it.
00:08:49
And what you just said though it it is a sport. It's supposed to be you're supposed to have sportsmanship.
00:08:55
Right. And yeah for somebody and and I think Dana White handled himself amazing and and
00:09:02
and that actually as as sad as you could tell he was it was supposed to be the biggest
00:09:08
thing that he ever did in his career. Mhm. Dana White, you know, and they're asking him questions at the end and I
00:09:14
think you could just see how sad he was it like it made me actually like go. And somebody said, "Look, this sport's a
00:09:24
good sport it just because these you know um this thing happened that this is a reflection on these individuals." Mhm.
00:09:32
And so so at the end of the day like you said could there be something that happens? Well
00:09:39
what's nice about the UFC is it's kind of like a dictatorship. They're going to do
00:09:46
whatever they want to do. Mhm. Right? So these three guys that jumped in the ring and
00:09:53
attacked a fighter after he fought pretty much four rounds. Um these guys are fighters.
00:09:59
Right. So, they're done. I mean, and that's the that's the interesting thing about the
00:10:08
UFC is they don't really need you. But, uh I mean Well, that that's right though. I mean,
00:10:14
it and you know, we might be talking about some stuff that maybe not a lot of people know about,
00:10:19
but um it the thing is and I think this is a complaint shared by most of the public, general public anyway, that a
00:10:28
lot of these athletes are paid very well and um some of them are are not. Um so,
00:10:33
I think that gets skewed a little bit. We see, you know, somebody like Peyton Manning making I don't know, 15 million,
00:10:39
20 million a year and we think they're all paid that that handsomely. There's a lot of professional athletes
00:10:45
that are making 100 grand, 200 grand, 300 grand and sacrificing quite a bit of their body and maybe their future to do
00:10:53
so. But, you the thing there is it is and should be considered a privilege to be able to
00:11:03
perform at that high of a level, to to work with an organization like the UFC, the NFL, NBA,
00:11:10
have the opportunity to make that much money. Right. And and and so, I applaud them if they're saying, "Hey, you you
00:11:17
people that people that don't behave inside the lines, then they have no business with our organization." Because
00:11:23
there are so many young people out there that are striving, that are are working
00:11:27
their butts off to try to get to that level. And if that's the case, if we if the supply and demand if the supply is
00:11:35
so much more than, you know, the the actual numbers that can get in there, then it should be the good people that
00:11:41
make it in there, the ones that can play inside the lines. Well, and I think the
00:11:44
thing too is there's just people that think that one, they can do whatever they want and two, that they're bigger
00:11:51
than the actual organization. Mhm. And that's not the case. I mean, we've seen it time and
00:11:57
time again with the NBA or the NFL. And you're going to see it with the UFC, you
00:12:01
know, so. Uh but, yeah, it was it was one of those things where that the fight wasn't that
00:12:07
exciting and then you then you go you're like, "Ah, man." I mean, it was a good,
00:12:13
you know, pay-per-view overall. But, you go, "Ah, man." And then 2 seconds later this brawl
00:12:20
happens and you just go, "This is just, you know, it's this is not a tough man contest. This is not,
00:12:27
you know, let's have a bunch of beers and punch each other in the face." Mhm. This is you know, it's supposed to be a
00:12:32
sport. It's supposed to be um mixed mixed martial arts. And when you think of where that kind of stems from,
00:12:38
somebody like Bruce Lee and the respect that he had and to hold yourself accountable and all this stuff. And
00:12:45
that's the other thing that really pissed me off is then the post-fight conference, which
00:12:51
probably most people don't watch, uh Khabib comes out and I'll go, "Okay, here's his chance to say something." And
00:12:58
he apologizes to the commission. He apologizes to all these people. The people he apologized to are the people
00:13:04
that are going to determine whether or not he gets to fight again. Mhm. That's who he apologized to.
00:13:11
He didn't apologize I don't think he apologized to the fans. I don't think he apologized to the people in the arena
00:13:16
that he put at danger. Right. Um because for whatever reason, UFC had more officers on staff and if they want to
00:13:26
control that, it could have been really bad. I mean, there was the Mike Tyson fight that they had a riot. And there
00:13:31
was just fights all over the arena. So, um you know, he comes out and apologizes.
00:13:39
I thought the funniest thing was how he's uh his father, which is his trainer, uh which isn't able to have a visa.
00:13:46
That's another problem. You jump out of the ring and you attack people, you might not get a visa. You might not even
00:13:52
So, at that point, the UFC's just going to strip your title. Cuz you can't fight in the United
00:13:56
States, so um but, he even said, "I know when I get home, I my father's going to smash me." And I
00:14:04
thought, yeah, I hope he smashes you twice because you should apologize to that and all the
00:14:10
young fans of his um looking up at him and it's just it's it's actually really sad. Uh cuz you go
00:14:18
here here's a moment that this um this guy that seems to have good intentions at least, you know, and wants
00:14:25
to show that you can win and be respectful and not talk trash. Um and do everything the right way and he
00:14:33
did everything the right way. And then he won the fight. And then after that, it was like, "What?" So,
00:14:40
but yeah, but on a on a better note of the UFC fight, uh there was a guy Derrick Lewis that fought.
00:14:47
And he got his ass kicked for ba- basically three rounds. He was getting his ass kicked. He looked
00:14:55
tired. And out of nowhere, he knocks the dude out. Mhm. And uh you know, they wear little shorts and he
00:15:03
and Derrick pulled off his shorts. So, he didn't he didn't he just had his underwear
00:15:09
Mhm. And Joe Rogan always interviews the fighters afterwards and he said, "Derrick, why did you pull off your
00:15:15
shorts?" Right. He said, "My balls were hot." Oh. Okay. Well, that's not great for the younger
00:15:25
viewers, I thought. Well, no, no, no, but, you know, ah, come on, it's a you know, it's it's a fart joke, you know,
00:15:31
basically. All right. So, what's what's happening in your world? Um the Browns are 500. That's what's
00:15:40
happened. Yeah. Barely. Well, Barely. They're 500. That's That's better than some other teams out
00:15:50
there. That's true. Baker Mayfield coming through. Three overtimes in five games. I was at a
00:15:58
Browns backer's party yesterday. We're trying to give you uh your money's worth. Like, "Hey, we
00:16:05
know we haven't won in the last like 2 years, so we're going to we're going to play extra
00:16:10
minutes for you." Right. I was I was terrified yesterday that we were going to play another overtime and lose.
00:16:18
But, um Mhm. So, we I I last week I spoke with Bill Huffman. Okay, so Bill is uh someone I consider a friend of the
00:16:30
show, somebody that I was lucky enough to meet within the last year. He's working on a fantastic project. He's
00:16:37
doing a podcast called Who Killed Amy Mihaljevic? I don't know how many episodes it's
00:16:42
scheduled to be. It it I think it started off as like a 10 deal, but it might go longer than that. Uh you and I
00:16:49
know this, Captain. Sometimes after we cover a case, we end up getting you know, a bunch of people will reach out
00:16:57
to us with some new information and things like that and that's why we've been lucky to have this extra show off
00:17:03
the record and able to put some information there. So, Bill and I were we have sat down a
00:17:10
couple times and discussed the unsolved murder of Amy Mihaljevic. She was abducted from a Bay Village, which is
00:17:18
northeastern Ohio, um nice community. She was abducted from a shopping plaza there on Friday, October 27th, 1989
00:17:28
and her body was found in um a couple counties away, about a 50-minute drive from where she was abducted. Her body
00:17:37
was found a few months later. And Well, one of the scariest thing about that case is when you find out
00:17:44
that Amy received a phone call at her at her house Mhm. and that this individual
00:17:50
basically talked Amy into, "Hey, come to the shopping plaza. We're going to get a
00:17:54
gift for your mother." I believe that's correct. The mother mother got a promotion at her job or something.
00:18:01
And then she goes missing and and and that's one of the scariest part the scariest details of the in the case to
00:18:07
me. Yeah, and in 2016, remember the press conference, Captain? The Bay Village Police Department, along
00:18:15
with some help from the FBI, they had a press conference stating that, you know,
00:18:19
look, there there were some other items that were found in the field where her body was found and we think that they
00:18:25
may uh well, actually now we know that they were linked to Amy. Uh it's believed there was a curtain.
00:18:33
Um and I reference this because what we're going to hear here shortly is just a conversation that Bill and I had
00:18:39
regarding the unsolved case and we do reference this curtain and you and I have talked about this before. The
00:18:46
interesting thing about Amy's case as far as the way it plays to True Crime Garage is
00:18:51
we we've talked about this case. I don't know that you mentioned this last week and I thought it was an interesting
00:18:57
take. We've discussed this case many, many times on the show, uh on True Crime Garage, on Off the Record, as everybody
00:19:05
here knows. But, you said, "Well, we've not really covered it." And I thought that's an
00:19:11
interesting take because that's that's not wrong, you know, um It's the truth. Right.
00:19:15
It's a interesting truth that I took. Yeah. So, Yeah, cuz when we covered have to cover it someday. Yeah, when
00:19:24
wha- what happened was So, I when we had James Renner come down the first time, he was so nice to come
00:19:31
down, didn't know who we were. Told the story a million times, blah blah blah blah blah.
00:19:36
But, anyways, the the nice thing was you're like well, the funny thing was you're like, "Me and James are going to
00:19:44
talk about this Amy Mihaljevic case." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, Nick and James are in the other room
00:19:51
talking and me and the engineer turn down the we can't hear you. Mhm. So we just turn
00:19:58
it off and we just kind of catch up cuz we recorded at my old work. So then I edit the show later
00:20:06
to put out the episode. Mhm. And it was taking me forever because I was listening.
00:20:15
Instead of just editing. So eventually I was like, "Okay, I'll just edit." I edited the show
00:20:20
put it out I hit play right away and I sit there and listen and to this day I still think it's
00:20:26
one of our best episodes cuz I'm one not cuz I'm not on it because nobody wants to listen themselves anyways, but
00:20:35
but it's just a really fascinating case um and that's the first time that we really
00:20:41
you know, quote unquote covered it was just a conversation between you and James Renner.
00:20:47
Yeah, and the the fun thing for me um is this is a case that I've followed for for a long time. It's one
00:20:55
of my top five cases I would say that's always uh hanging around. But Mhm. James and Bill are the only two
00:21:05
individuals that I've ever spoke to that know more about the case than myself. And so for me, you know, you know how I
00:21:12
am Captain, that's fascinating to me. Like it's there's only one Amy Mihaljevic book out there about the
00:21:19
case. There's not you know, it's not Jack the Ripper where there's dozens and dozens and dozens of books
00:21:25
out there and you can there's a wealth of knowledge that you can just keep finding things out. So
00:21:30
anytime I have the opportunity to talk to James or Bill, um it's it's exciting for me because I get to
00:21:37
learn some new things about the case that I was not aware of. And you'll hear that in some of our conversation here
00:21:44
with Bill Huffman. So I've been listening to the podcast. I love it. Um I think it's great what
00:21:50
you're doing. It's The case itself is large enough with details and of course the time span
00:21:57
and the characters and players involved that it it's really the perfect format to have you know,
00:22:05
how many shows you intend on doing? 10? A total of 10, yes. I'll tell you what, why don't we you
00:22:12
know, you and I have talked about Amy's case several times. You're one of my favorite people to discuss the case
00:22:17
with. Last time we talked about it, I did a lot of the talking cuz you wanted to
00:22:22
hear my thoughts and theories and I got a bazillion of them. Um So I I've been listening to your show
00:22:30
and I know that you are kind of inching your way or at least from conversations you and I had I know that you have some
00:22:36
thoughts and theories um that I was wondering if you would share with us here today.
00:22:45
Sure. Yeah, I mean I the way that I look at the case is that uh you know the people that know the Amy Mihaljevic
00:22:52
case, you know, the the ruse that was used to set up uh the kidnapping uh was something of the nature of I work with
00:23:01
your mother and we're going to buy a gift for her recent promotion at work. I've always believed that
00:23:07
the or at least with my investigation that I've you know, been doing over the last eight
00:23:13
to 10 months is that that was probably more of a misdirection than anything, you know
00:23:20
concrete like obviously the police looked into the the you know, where Margaret worked.
00:23:28
There was nobody there that fit any of those descriptions. She had not received a promotion
00:23:33
but she did go from part-time to full-time. So you know, that is a in some families that is a promotion.
00:23:40
And basically I think as far as the Margaret ruse, I think it honestly, you know, just to
00:23:50
cut right to the chase is that I think it stems from Mark's background. So somebody using the mother as a
00:23:58
misdirection. Okay, so if Amy does tell somebody about this phone call or as I believe multiple phone calls um
00:24:07
if she does tell somebody then I can back off. I can I just won't take the child and they'll think that some
00:24:15
creep from her mother's work was calling. And it what's interesting here is do you have an idea of I was aware that
00:24:26
Margaret went from part-time to full-time and in a child's eyes and a child's mind, that would feel
00:24:33
like a promotion. That might make sense to a child because you know, you're getting told, "Hey, mom's going to be
00:24:39
working more." Well, you could assume that was some kind of promotion especially when somebody especially when
00:24:45
somebody's telling you on the phone that she received a promotion. Do you have an idea of about
00:24:52
the time frame between when she went from part-time to full-time and when the abduction took place? Was it weeks?
00:25:00
That's you know, that's a good question. I I don't have an exact time frame. I do
00:25:04
believe it was in the within the month of when the phone calls occurred. But as far as
00:25:11
you know of course a kid is going to think that that is I mean, it is a promotion to to
00:25:17
any family who's you know, needs more money. Like every family every family needs
00:25:22
more money. So to go from part-time to full-time in a kid's mind, absolutely it's a promotion
00:25:28
to them. Sure, it may not feel that way to the mom or for to the father, but at the bottom the bottom line is you're
00:25:34
getting more money. So to the child, yeah. If somebody calls you and says, "Your
00:25:40
mom received a promotion at work." who is she to say that she didn't? Right. Well, and one thing that I'm loving
00:25:47
about your show is that there are so many you know, I've been looking at this case
00:25:52
since on and off since 1989, you know, and it's rare for me to find a new detail
00:26:00
that's concrete. And one thing that I heard on your show which is concrete, um I know it to be from listening
00:26:09
is the added detail about the phone call that the abductor or the man who called
00:26:15
her claims, "Hey, we're going to go buy your mom a gift. I need you to help me pick it out. I have $40 to spend and
00:26:23
whatever's left over, you can keep." Yeah, the that was one of the interesting details that I learned when
00:26:30
I was interviewing uh Chief Spetzel and that was that in the details that they learned from you know, the girls who
00:26:39
came forward to tell about the uh the meeting that Amy was having was that it believe it was $45, but it was one of
00:26:50
those yeah, it was $45, but it was one of those dollar amounts that I had never heard
00:26:55
before. And I was you know, I'd never even heard him mention a dollar amount up until that point. So I thought that
00:27:01
was pretty pretty interesting and you know, for a kid, again, let's say you spend 25 bucks on a gift, you get
00:27:09
$20. That's that's pretty rewarding. Oh, yeah. And incentive to to go about things.
00:27:17
The the thing that we you know, so odd about the case is well, one the phone call, that's obvious
00:27:23
because that's just putting yourself out there. But the way that he was able to get her to lie to her parents. I mean,
00:27:33
she had never really been one to lie and on this day she made up a lie about having to stay after school
00:27:44
for a choir practice and there was no such thing. Mhm. So not only did this guy get her
00:27:51
comfortable enough to meet you know he got her comfortable enough to lie. Right. So this person had to have had
00:28:01
experience talking to children. And that is you know, that that leads you to a bunch
00:28:10
of different you know, avenues. Right. Now you think or at least in conversations
00:28:18
you and I have had you think one possibility is that maybe the perpetrator would be
00:28:24
younger than some of the suspects that I've always thought of. Um And you and I had a conversation about a
00:28:33
young individual. Was it Was this man 20, 21? I believe he was I want to say he was
00:28:39
21. Okay. And the thing that makes his you know, we're just going to you know what makes him interesting is the fact
00:28:46
that uh what brought brought him to my attention was I did some uh FOIA requests with uh the service departments
00:28:56
around the area because I thought in my mind, you know, people who have time to drive around work on city
00:29:03
streets and you know, they could have time to you know, maybe stalk a girl or see a girl that they
00:29:12
that might catch their eye and then you know, boom, they know where they live. Oh, she's walking home from school or
00:29:16
riding her bike, let's just drive the truck you know, it's it's just was it it was something that just crossed my mind
00:29:22
because I worked for the city in college and uh just you know, there's some shady characters that work in those
00:29:31
uh departments, but in my requests, I uncovered a guy who had been hired by the city of Rocky River on
00:29:40
October 26th and then fired on October 28th. And there aren't many reasons that you get
00:29:48
fired within a day. Yeah, say those dates again. Uh the date was October 26th, 1989 that
00:29:55
he was hired. He was fired October 28th, 1989. Okay, so she was abducted on the 27th?
00:30:03
She was abducted on October 27th, 1989. So the guy he was hired and he may have worked that
00:30:10
Thursday, may have worked that Friday. He's fired by Saturday. Yeah, and so the the interesting part about it that
00:30:19
is that there aren't many things that get you fired in a day. So the thought process, at least my thought
00:30:24
process is that he left either left early or just didn't even show up for work. Yeah, you and I both agreed when
00:30:30
we had that conversation was really the I mean, of course, he could have stolen something. He could have
00:30:36
exposed himself. He could have done any number of things to get fired in a day, but the first thing that jumps to your
00:30:41
mind is no call, no show or just walked out. Exactly. And and and another interesting thing. So
00:30:49
that was the one thing that jumped out to me. Okay, the the dates are weird. So then I started looking into, you know,
00:30:55
looked into his record. And it turned out that he had had some charge in the metro parks. Now it did not specify
00:31:03
which metro parks, but in the city of Bay Village there is what can considered, you know, the
00:31:11
Cleveland metro parks, which is Huntington Beach area, the Huntington Woods area, as well as the Lake Erie
00:31:19
Nature and Science Center. And in those areas you have walking paths and you know, woods and soccer fields and and
00:31:28
just a variety of different things. So what is weird about is that there was this charge from I believe it was in
00:31:35
April of '89 that has been I well, I guess I'd say expunged, but it's still there. I mean, it's it's
00:31:45
there's some record of something that happened. I don't know if it would could could have been drunk and, you know,
00:31:51
public intoxication, but why would you get that expunged? And there was a time in
00:31:57
you know, you can't basically you can basically get you can't get anything expunged anymore.
00:32:03
It's very difficult, yeah. But back then there was just like a few you know, you you had to wait a few
00:32:10
years and boom, you could have your lawyer sending a letter and get that off of your record.
00:32:17
Yeah. So that happened in April. Then he gets hired at the city of Rocky River, doesn't show up for work or
00:32:26
leaves early. Amy goes missing. idea of proximity from Rocky River to Bay Village.
00:32:34
So Rocky River is literally the city directly to the east of Bay Village. Next door.
00:32:40
Next door. Okay. We share We're both lakeside communities. And the the interesting thing about this
00:32:50
individual is that he he lived he lived in Bay Village. But he worked for Rocky River.
00:32:58
Where he lived in Bay Village was just about a quarter mile from where Amy Mihaljevic lived.
00:33:06
And she walked and rode her bike from time to time to and from school. Um Yeah, it was very common back then.
00:33:17
at any time. And in fact, the day she was abducted, she rode her bike to school.
00:33:22
Yeah, she definitely, you know, the day that she was taken was abnormally warm. It was one of those
00:33:29
uh you know, Indian summer type days where I think it even was close to 70°. So kids were out playing. It was It wasn't
00:33:38
your typical late October Cleveland day where it was kind of like it is today where
00:33:45
it's gloomy and ugly. It was really a beautiful day and you know, obviously ended with
00:33:52
you know, in tragedy, but um But yeah, that that one individual, he he's somebody that I've uh
00:34:02
I've kind of focused in on. I don't know if I'm going to say that that is the person that I
00:34:07
believe did it, but I do believe that there's a lot of smoke there. Okay. And you know, and it as as
00:34:16
anybody knows, you know, where there's smoke there's fire. So Would this and he later went
00:34:21
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. No, no. I I keep cutting you off,
00:34:25
but I got um would he have happened to have lived alone? Do you know? You know, at that time I think he
00:34:31
probably would have lived with his parents. Okay. So and I don't know if I'm still trying to find the connection
00:34:37
between him and Ashland County. I think that's that's where I'm kind of running into
00:34:45
roadblocks, but you know, one of the things that the FBI always states is that people who commit crimes
00:34:55
generally will have uh adverse reaction to that behavior and they'll end up either
00:35:03
going to drugs or drinking. And this particular individual had multiple DUIs in the '90s, you know,
00:35:12
shortly after uh the abduction. So, you know, there was there was stuff there that just made me
00:35:20
think there might be something more to this guy than meets the eye. So you're not you're not to the point where
00:35:29
you say, you know, cuz James is named James Renner has named some suspects um or people he believes to be possible
00:35:37
suspects. Um I agree with some of his list. I think there's a lot of questionable behavior
00:35:45
in there, but you're not ready to say uh Bill Hoffman, I put my stamp on this guy
00:35:50
as I think he should be a person of interest. You're just saying at this point from what you can tell from
00:35:56
tracking this individual's history, there's nothing to take him off your list. Yeah, that's exactly where I
00:36:02
stand. And that's I'm kind of you know, I'm not going I don't want to go the James Renner
00:36:09
route in the sense that I'm going to say I have a top three or a top five. I'm just going to you know, cuz I don't want
00:36:14
to give anybody more credence than the other, but you know, he's one that definitely stands out to me
00:36:21
as somebody that could possibly be uh you know, the perpetrator. Just because of the fact that the description of the
00:36:31
of the guy came from two 10-year-olds. And when 10-year-old when you're a 10-year-old and somebody is 21 could
00:36:38
you know, easily be misconstrued for 25. I mean, what's the difference? Especially since they say
00:36:44
the age, you know, is 25 to 35. So Well, and that's where I think we've you and I vary a little bit is that
00:36:54
you know, the the one child who gives a description of the man that he believes he saw talking to
00:37:01
Amy uh has or has been quoted as saying something to the effect that I thought it was Amy's father.
00:37:10
And so that's where we vary cuz I tend to lean more towards that 30 to 35 range putting the individual closer to
00:37:21
the actual age of her father. Um uh but with this particular individual that you're
00:37:29
talking about, he you say is probably 21 at this time in October of '89. And what's interesting about that
00:37:38
though, there were after she was found, there were newspaper reports where we have witnesses in that Ashland County
00:37:46
area that say look, I think I saw some some guy in his early 20s uh with a with a car with the trunk open
00:37:56
uh in the area just days or nights before she was found. And I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend to
00:38:05
think or believe that she was dumped days before she was found. I think she was there
00:38:11
quite a bit more time than that, but who knows? Did the individual come back and look at the site? Did Did he come
00:38:18
back and wonder why they haven't found her? Or is there any way that I can better conceal her? Um
00:38:27
and return to the area or was this an individual that lived somewhat near the area and
00:38:34
would drive by periodically to check on it? The The interesting thing there though, if
00:38:40
would you think that the guy that you're talking about would he And I know it's a pretty
00:38:46
general description they give of the man that's in his early 20s Mhm. seen in that area, would he fit Can you rule him
00:38:53
out from that I cannot rule him No, I cannot rule him out with that description. Now, the one
00:38:59
thing that I can say is that a lot of those claims of seen people or you know, the witnesses who have said that they
00:39:07
have saw somebody you know, authorities kind of downplayed that because of the fact that they do believe her body was
00:39:14
there for so long. Right. I do like your idea that he may have been going back and, you know,
00:39:20
Ted Bundy style, you know, appreciating his you know, that's a terrible word to use,
00:39:25
but uh We know what you mean. Returning to the scene. Returning to the scene, but
00:39:30
maybe to maybe not for the same reasons that Ted Bundy returned. Yeah, we're not going to go I'm not
00:39:34
going to go into what Ted Bundy did, but exactly, returning to the scene, getting that feel for uh you know, like
00:39:42
the rush maybe. But the the idea that she was there the whole time, you know, that
00:39:53
I don't know. That there is still some debate. James believes that you know, with
00:40:00
his belief is that she was there basically the whole time. Yeah, I think he says
00:40:07
and he said this to me too is that I he I think he thinks maybe sometime that Sunday night or the Monday morning that
00:40:15
somebody placed her body there. She was taken Friday afternoon. Mhm. Now, one thing that I find interesting regarding
00:40:23
that, you know, in a and he kind of clued us in on something. I don't know if he spoke too much. I
00:40:29
don't know if he said some things that he uh wishes he wouldn't have said, but one thing that was interesting when you
00:40:34
guys were talking about this exact topic on your show was that he had but he had
00:40:40
been told that the body likely was stored or kept somewhere for some amount of time. They don't they
00:40:52
didn't sounds like they didn't give him a good idea of what they feel is some amount of time, but
00:40:58
what's interesting on that thought is I had read years ago and I believe it was a quote from an FBI
00:41:06
agent that had stated we believe she could have been kept for a period of time and that could have been anywhere
00:41:13
from 2 days to 2 weeks. Mhm. Okay, so now where I roll with that is I had always thought that that meant kept
00:41:20
alive for as little as 2 days or as long as 2 weeks. Now hearing that information
00:41:27
that from your show, I'm starting to wonder does that mean might have been kept alive for a day or
00:41:33
two uh or I mean, you know, anywhere from from a couple hours after being abducted to a
00:41:41
day or two being held alive and then the body was kept from anywhere for two to two two days to two weeks before being
00:41:51
placed in that field. Right. And the one thing that would would back your uh statement up would be that her
00:42:00
stomach contents. You know, she did not have anything to eat. If she was, you know, she most likely
00:42:06
you can live without food for 2 weeks, but the fact that she only had what she had for lunch that
00:42:14
Friday in her stomach doesn't bode well for her being alive for much longer than
00:42:21
more, you know, for more than maybe 24 to 48 hours. Right. But the idea of her being stored
00:42:26
somewhere, now that is something that I do think James I don't know if he hinted at it or not.
00:42:34
I don't know if that's what you're referring to, but when he was talking about what was on the autopsy report
00:42:40
and that the police from Bay had told him not to discuss one thing that was on there. And I tried to get him to discuss
00:42:48
that one thing. but you you dog. You dog. Yeah, you know, uh he um he wouldn't, but you know, you have to let your
00:42:58
you can let your mind wander what that one thing is and maybe it is that. Maybe it is the fact
00:43:06
that she was kept in a cooler, you know, I mean we've all seen the Iceman tapes. Anybody
00:43:13
who knows true crime uh you know, the ice kill, you know, the ice pick killer whatever the Mhm.
00:43:21
Krzenski guy uh Yeah. But you know, they can and in Ashland, you know, it's major
00:43:28
hunting territory. So a lot of these places are outfitted with giant coolers. So who's to say that she
00:43:37
wasn't just kept for the weekend and then just put into a freezer for or not even necessarily a
00:43:44
freezer, but a cooler freezer type thing and then transported to where she was eventually found. Yeah.
00:43:53
And there's nothing that says that that couldn't have been the case. And maybe that is one of the keys that they're
00:43:59
holding back. Yeah, and and that's leads me to this. Something that I, you know,
00:44:06
when you and I had our discussion and I've voiced this several times even on True Crime Garage that
00:44:15
you know, when they release that information about the curtain or blanket or quilt or whatever you want to call
00:44:22
it. So many years, you know, over 20 years later they show that to the public and then
00:44:28
they ask for the public's assistance. And I and I've kind of criticized that move, but I I do want to say something
00:44:36
and I want to kind of clean that up that thought up quite a bit because where I where I
00:44:43
take issue with that particular method that they used there with that evidence that that they're
00:44:50
asking for people that have seen this item before. We have so many people that could have
00:44:55
passed, moved away, or just simply forgotten that they've actually seen that item before.
00:45:02
Where I've criticized that move, one thing I want to be clear on is when your interviews with Spetzl
00:45:08
I like that he refuses, he stops himself from referring to Amy Mihaljevic's case
00:45:14
as a cold case. And what he means by that when he says that is that it's very much active in the eyes of his
00:45:22
department. Meaning that they are actively pursuing this case when they, you know, when there is information to
00:45:30
review or when they have time to continue to pursue it. So I I want to be clear that I I'm
00:45:38
criticizing that particular method, that one item, but I'm not I don't want to come off as criticizing the police
00:45:46
department. I I don't think that this has not been solved because of a lack of effort. I think there's been an extreme
00:45:54
good, strong effort from the Bay Village Police Department. They've they've set aside ego multiple times, which we've
00:46:02
which we've seen flaw other cases when they can't set aside their ego. They've set aside their ego, brought experts in,
00:46:09
brought in FBI, brought in anybody from anywhere that's willing to help. So it's not for a lack of effort. The
00:46:16
thing here is that we got to keep in mind and and people are quick to criticize police departments when cases
00:46:22
go unsolved. It's not not always is it their fault that it's unsolved. This in this particular case
00:46:31
this wasn't I this was not a dumb man that abducted and killed Amy Mihaljevic. This is somebody that put some thought
00:46:39
into what they were doing. And I back that up by saying the ruse of talking to the child on the
00:46:46
phone luring her to a public place. He abducts a child and the nobody knows that an abduction
00:46:55
occurred. You know, she doesn't scream, she doesn't yell, she doesn't fight back. If she would have done any of
00:47:00
those things we would have we would have immediately known that that the poor girl was
00:47:06
abducted. He he was able to conceal his car or vehicle. You know, we don't have an eyewitness saying, "Oh, I saw a green
00:47:15
truck or I saw a blue van." We don't have a description of a vehicle. And so this person
00:47:23
I'm not I don't want to say he's, you know, highly intelligent. I can't speak to that, but what I can say is this is
00:47:30
not a dumb man. This is somebody that put a lot of thought and planning into what occurred.
00:47:38
Yeah, I I absolutely agree with you on that one 100%. The fact that he would set this up. He obviously scoped out the
00:47:47
the scene. You know, he knew where to park the car where he wouldn't be seen taking her.
00:47:55
Obviously he knew the police station was across the street. I mean, I know James has said, "Well,
00:48:01
there likely but you know, there are police cars in the parking lot. It may not he may have thought it was a city
00:48:09
hall." I could see that. But again, if he's this familiar with Bay and this familiar with Amy or Amy's background
00:48:17
I don't know. It doesn't it wouldn't surprise me if he he knew it was there and this was sort of like a
00:48:23
you know um look how smart I am. Well, yeah, I don't think it was a middle finger to
00:48:29
the police. I think that it was the police station happened to be located where it is and for him to get
00:48:38
Amy. And this is what I want to be very clear on it. I've been I've been very up
00:48:42
front about this the entire time. Anytime anybody asked me about this case this was not a random abduction. This
00:48:48
individual targeted her for some reason. And the thing with the police department
00:48:55
being across the street, I think it was just it's an added risk factor for him. But
00:49:03
you say he knew Bay Village and people out there listening are going to go, "Well, how do you know that he knew Bay
00:49:07
Village, Bill?" And I and and and let's talk about that. He he obviously knew Bay Village because of several
00:49:15
things. One, he called a girl that he knew had the ability to af- after school leave on her own.
00:49:23
This was not a child that was being picked up every day by a parent. This was not a child that was hopping on a
00:49:29
school bus every day after school. This is not somebody that needed to be accounted for the minute
00:49:36
that school let out. This was a child that had the ability to go to another location after school by their own means
00:49:45
without without using a vehicle and and choosing the plaza, a place where it was
00:49:51
known that children went to after school on occasion. And knowing the proximity of the plaza to her school was so damn
00:49:59
close, he knew she would have the ability to get there without telling her brother,
00:50:05
without needing a ride from mom or dad, without anybody else's assistance. She could walk there, ride her bike there,
00:50:12
what have you, be there on her own. And all he has to do is show up and wait to see her. And if she doesn't show,
00:50:22
you call off your call off your plan and maybe you try try another girl at another time.
00:50:28
But if she does show up, it's full go. And Yeah. And so he he for him to have had abducted her from
00:50:38
the plaza, I think it's very likely that he suggested meeting at that location. And
00:50:45
if he did, that means he knew Bay Village. He knew he knew the area. Well, that's a
00:50:51
you know, people listeners majority of people don't know what Bay Village is like.
00:50:56
Bay Village is a very you know, it's mostly residential homes. There is very little commerce as far as
00:51:05
stores and you know, the traditional strip malls or anything like that. This really at that time in 1989 was the only
00:51:13
place that kids really did go to after school because of the location of Wolf Road
00:51:21
being, you know, right there by the middle school. I mean, it was literally a quarter mile from there. So, it the
00:51:28
difference being you know, Amy would have had to go the opposite direction. You you brought up this is something
00:51:37
that I just thought of and that you brought up on your show when you discussed Amy. And it was an interesting
00:51:43
thought and it was why did she leave her bike? Right. Maybe she thought that they would go to the wherever they
00:51:54
were going to go, do whatever, you know, buy this gift, and then she would just get dropped back off at
00:52:01
the plaza and she would walk back to school, get her bike and ride home because it was
00:52:09
on the way. Right. To me, that makes the most sense as far as why she would have left her bike.
00:52:16
But again, Yeah. this person this person did not just randomly pick Amy Maholovic. Now, when
00:52:25
you and I spoke, I did throw out something that popped in my head. So, James Renner and I drove around Bay
00:52:32
Village uh for a couple of hours just really just spitballing. I mean, we were literally just throwing every wild thing
00:52:41
up in the air and seeing, you know, if any of it made any sense. But one thing that that popped into to my tiny little
00:52:47
brain while we were driving around was I said to him, I said, you know, cuz he um
00:52:54
you know, the the thought was that and this is just a bunch of outsiders' perspectives looking in on a family
00:53:01
dynamic and we don't fully know or understand that family dynamic. But but one thing that has been speculated by
00:53:08
more people than just myself is that Amy may have been seeking attention or affection from a mother that was
00:53:17
might have been um strict, might have been difficult, and definitely had some issues with alcohol.
00:53:27
And she may have been seeking attention and affection from this mother who could
00:53:32
have been distant. And if she if she was, and one thing that I tossed out to James
00:53:38
and tossed it out to you was and I know this is pretty far-fetched. It's a big giant leap. But what if what
00:53:43
if this this jerk says to Amy, "Go ahead and leave your bike at the school. Uh I'll pick you up at the plaza. We'll
00:53:51
go pick up the gift. We'll go shopping and then afterward, we're going to do a cake and punch
00:53:58
at at your mom's office where we're going to give her this gift and you can be there
00:54:03
to give your mom this gift that you helped me pick out." And I think I think if he came up with that, she would have
00:54:10
fell for it. If if Yeah, cuz that sounds very convincing and definitely would let the guard down
00:54:15
on And how safe would you feel if you say, "Hey, yeah, I'm meeting this person that
00:54:19
I don't know, but they're going to drop me off at my mom's work afterwards." to meet my mom. That
00:54:26
The biggest thing again, we go back to this. They had a secret code that they would tell one another, the you know,
00:54:33
between Jason, Margaret, and Amy Do you know what it is? Now, Mark has I have to go he doesn't Mark doesn't
00:54:43
remember a lot of stuff. Yeah. fair to say? And I like Mark. I I I my heart my heart is
00:54:52
goes out to him a million ti- I cannot imagine the hell that his life has been because of this terrible
00:55:00
event. Um so but so I'm not accusing him of anything, but it it's frustrating for
00:55:06
me to listen to Mark because I'm like, "Damn it, man, remember something." You know, um but but I think
00:55:14
Do you think it's you think it's post-traumatic So, you know, do you think it's PTSD
00:55:19
because his child was taken and murdered? I I I would think so. Yeah, I I honestly do believe that
00:55:25
there's a lot of Yeah, I'm a big big proponent of therapy and the you know, psychology and psychiatry
00:55:32
and all the you know, the means and methods of you know, treating that type of thing.
00:55:38
I do believe that there's a lot of PTSD. I can't fathom what it would be like to
00:55:42
lose a child. I can't fathom what his life has been like, you know, the living literally living hell that he's had to
00:55:50
go through. Well, let's throw this out there for the listeners and I'll let you get back to this thought. Uh but
00:55:57
just so they know, this is what Mark has had to endure. He he his child is abducted and
00:56:04
missing for a couple of months. The the I mean, the the hurt that that does to you in
00:56:10
that time frame day after day, ridiculous. And then when they do find her, she's been murdered.
00:56:17
Again, we can't even fathom the thought of having to deal with that. And then he's
00:56:24
divorced, his his wife ex-wife moves to another state where the thought is that she's going she was
00:56:32
the driving force behind finding Amy by but for looking for Amy. And then she moves to another state and it's did she
00:56:41
give up? Did she did she um succumb to illness? She dies. Uh it wasn't terribly long after Amy,
00:56:50
right? Within maybe 10 years or so? Yeah, it was uh 2001 that she passed away. And yeah, it was a combination of, you
00:56:59
know, from the autopsy reporter from the coroner's reporter, it was, you know, a
00:57:03
combination of lupus and alcoholism. Do you get the vibe that Mark and his son are not extremely close
00:57:11
these days? Well, no, actually I I know exactly the I know that it's completely the
00:57:16
opposite. Oh, good. Good. They are super close these days. Good. I was hoping I was hoping for
00:57:20
that. I've been there I've been I've interviewed Mark on two occasions for three plus hours each time.
00:57:28
On the last time I was there, Jason called and, you know, they were setting up something to go I mean, they see each
00:57:35
other well, at least once a week now. And they go to different car races and car shows and
00:57:43
uh he's kind of I'm they're buddies, you know, they really are. And the really interesting thing about the
00:57:50
dynamic and I don't want to get into too much of the fi- family dynamic, but yes, the divorce was going to happen no
00:57:59
matter what even if Amy wouldn't have gone missing. They were already They were on the outs.
00:58:05
They were already past the point of no return. So, I asked Mark, "Did Amy was Amy aware of how unhappy everybody
00:58:16
was, you know, that you were and that, you know, obviously Margaret was cuz she drank so much?"
00:58:23
And his thought was the it's kind of hard for her not to have known that Right. things were so bad.
00:58:31
So, look, my my parents split up and it was the the couple years leading up to that,
00:58:39
it was obvious. It was I mean, it was like you know, they they were arguing all the
00:58:43
time. And they're both good people, both smart people, loving, caring people, you
00:58:49
know, there was no no violence or no um uh running around behind another's back.
00:58:56
It was just two people that had grown apart and and were not getting along. And so, I knew I I think I probably even
00:59:04
told some friends, "I wish they would just hurry up and get this divorce over with." But and then there's other
00:59:09
relationships where we and we see this on TV and in movies more often. And so, I don't know if it
00:59:15
actually happens in real life or not. But all of a sudden, mom or dad one day pulls the child aside and says,
00:59:22
"Honey, your father and I are splitting up and it's not your fault." And the kid is
00:59:26
like railroaded, you know, had no clue that there was problems between mom and dad, but she's Amy was old enough. If
00:59:34
there was if there was infighting going on within the household, she would have been aware that even if
00:59:42
she wasn't told directly, she would have had an idea. She wasn't an idiot. She would have had an idea. She was 10 going
00:59:47
on 11. I mean, you're not you are basically a teenager at 11. I know you're not technically, but Amy was not
00:59:55
dumb. Amy was very aware of what was going on around her. And I think that the person that
01:00:02
used Margaret as the you know, I use the word conduit, but you know, as the way to
01:00:10
to basically get to Amy's heart. I mean, he that is like the ultimate drop your guard. We're going to go do something
01:00:18
for your mom and you know your mom's unhappy and your mom has been sad and she's crying and you know, she's
01:00:24
drinking and you know, God knows what the you know, the atmosphere at at home at the time was like, but if this little
01:00:32
girl Amy thought, oh, if I buy a gift for her, you know, things will things will be better. And
01:00:40
that's one thing that you know, 10-year-olds can be super smart about some things, but they still have magical
01:00:45
thinking in that sense, too. That hey, maybe if I do something nice for my mom, things at home can get better. And
01:00:53
James has mentioned before that there was tension between Amy and you know, Margaret and he references a
01:01:01
story where and I believe it was on aired it on one of the episodes where she's getting dropped off for her riding
01:01:09
lesson and she's having a spat with her mom and she gets out of the car and her mom
01:01:14
throws her riding boots out the window. Now, that story is interesting, but doesn't correct me if I'm wrong, but
01:01:21
does does that story come from a person that the police looked at and questioned?
01:01:27
So, that yes, so what James the way James knows that story is that apparently that story is
01:01:35
involve you know, involves one of James' suspects that he wrote about in his book, Harold Bound. And I can say his
01:01:42
name because his name's been published before and you know, he's he's been investigated and
01:01:48
you know, there is a lot of interesting dynamics there. And what makes that story interesting is
01:01:55
that when he threw the boots out she threw the boots out the window, this guy apparently came up to Amy and was like,
01:02:01
can I put those on for you or do you need help putting those on? And so, it's just kind of that creep
01:02:06
factor. But James, you know, he he talks about how he went and you know, looked into the
01:02:15
place that he lived. He's he's spoken with Harold Bound. He doesn't actually believe it was was him, but
01:02:22
that also doesn't mean that it didn't necessarily come from somebody that may have been connected to the stables.
01:02:30
Right. Now, the individual that you and I discussed earlier, the the man that's 21 at the
01:02:37
time, Mhm. is he still alive? He is. He is. Is he still roughly in northeastern Ohio?
01:02:48
Yes, he is. He is in he lives in one of the western suburbs. And other than the drinking and driving,
01:02:56
no no red flags on the criminal record? No, I haven't you know, I was looking for you know, crimes against women,
01:03:04
violence against you know, domestic violence or anything like that and it I don't know if he's gotten sober and
01:03:10
things have gotten better in his life and again, this guy could have absolutely nothing to do with anything
01:03:16
to do with this case. It's just circumstantially a lot of things are weird and they line up and
01:03:24
just proximity wise and I'm not sure if this person's ever even been looked into as far as the
01:03:31
investigation goes. Cuz I did bring up his name to Chief Spetzel and you know, Spetzel's never one to comment
01:03:39
on names as most authorities all authorities are reluctant to do or won't do. But he did say that you know, I've
01:03:50
I honestly I couldn't even tell you if I there's so many names. And just so many names. I
01:03:57
often hope and I hate to say this out loud, but I often hope that the individual that did this is still alive,
01:04:07
unfortunately lived a long life. I say that mainly because I want to see them it's not so much for my own satisfaction
01:04:17
to see who did it because I do think this will get solved at some point and I don't I don't say that for my own
01:04:26
satisfaction. I say that because this person needs the embarrassment, needs the to be treated
01:04:35
like the individual that they are underneath the skin and and needs to be brought forth to everybody to be to be
01:04:44
judged by us and and judged by God. And I want that to happen to this individual. So,
01:04:52
where I'm going with this Bill is one thought that I think regarding this is that
01:04:58
this individual was attracted and and I said this when you and I did our interview for your show.
01:05:06
This person this individual was sexually attracted to a 10-year-old going on 11-year-old girl.
01:05:13
Sexually attracted to her enough that he went to the risk of calling her home, went to the risk of grabbing her in
01:05:21
public, went to the risk of getting caught for for what he is. I feel that given those moves that he
01:05:30
made, that this attraction this thing inside of him is strong enough that I don't know that
01:05:38
it goes away. I don't I I would I would almost anticipate to that there would be
01:05:45
future molestations um of some sort. I think that this individual likely would be
01:05:54
attracted to young girls um preteen girls for the rest of their lives. It's hard
01:06:01
to imagine it's hard to imagine somebody being able to turn it off. Right. You know, they they always say that about
01:06:07
pedophiles. There is no cure. You know, you can put people in jail for 20, 30, 40 years, the
01:06:14
day they get out, they still have those same urges, the same feelings that they did before. Those things don't go away.
01:06:20
And that is one of the biggest problems that we face as a society with sex offenders is that there isn't a cure for
01:06:28
that disease of pedophilia. And if this person was attracted to to Amy in that way that
01:06:36
you just described, well, again, he would have and most likely done this again. And that's not to say that he
01:06:43
didn't, it's just to say let's say he did it and got away with it and nobody, you know, who maybe didn't kill this
01:06:50
person. It's just that he molested them and they didn't turn them in. Well, and You know, there's a lot of
01:06:57
weird things there. And I had a good debate about this a few years ago with somebody and and I said
01:07:03
the same thing, roughly the same thing that once once that attraction, likely always that attraction. It's just
01:07:11
something that's embedded in their DNA, I guess. Um and but my answer to I was asked, well, how how do you know?
01:07:21
How do you know? And I obviously we don't know that for sure. There's no I don't know if there will ever be a
01:07:26
scientific way to prove that, but my way of backing that up was my own experience. My own experience is this.
01:07:36
I'm a I'm attracted to adult women. Well, I I'm not saying that this individual or
01:07:43
or pedophiles wake up one day and decide, you know what? I'm going to be attracted to something that's illegal.
01:07:50
I'm going to be attracted to something that's wrong in in the eyes of society and well, just wrong. But
01:07:57
if I woke up one day and the laws all of the sudden said having a relationship or having romance
01:08:05
or sexual relationship with an adult woman is illegal, I I would be locked up and when they let
01:08:13
me out two years from now, I would still be attracted to adult women. You know what I mean? That's that's the
01:08:20
that's how I back that up saying that I think that for most if not all of these individuals, once the attraction, always
01:08:26
the attraction. I agree with that 100% and it's another society that's a a failure in
01:08:33
our society is that we send people to jail, we don't rehabilitate people. We don't make them ready to not to say that
01:08:40
there is a rehabilitation for a pedophile, but you know, again, you serve your sentence, you do your thing,
01:08:46
you follow the the guidelines, you have to register as a sex offender. There are there are ways to
01:08:54
you know, that we are able to keep track of these people. But the problem that everything boils down to is that 99% of
01:09:01
the time these crimes occur, nobody that person's not on a list. You know, they they don't they haven't
01:09:08
committed the crime yet. Right. It's just you know, with have you listened I've brought this up with James before, but
01:09:18
have you listened to In the Dark? I I know you don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but it's the Jacob Wetterling
01:09:23
yeah. And there you know, with you brought this up earlier in the episode where you talked about how it's not a failure
01:09:31
of the police and I don't I don't feel that way at all. Whereas in Jacob Wetterling's case, I feel like
01:09:38
there was a lot of failure. There was a There was breadcrumb trails back to the individual that we later
01:09:45
know killed Jacob Wetterling, yes. They freaking interviewed him. Right. They took They took one of his victims
01:09:52
to look at his car and the kids was like, "Yeah, I this looks like it." But the fact that it wasn't a hatchback,
01:10:00
they're like, "Ah, it's not him." That to me is a complete failure. Yes. But what what you said about the police
01:10:07
and how you mentioned Spetzl going out of his way to say that this is not a cold case.
01:10:15
And back to the blanket thing, you know, I You meant I just I'm just trying to like
01:10:22
about the blanket thing. I didn't explain what his thoughts were. It wasn't next to Amy.
01:10:31
But it would have been better if it they was released like 20 years ago. Right. Oh, yeah.
01:10:35
I mean, even if they didn't have a connection, even if they didn't have a scientific connection, you know, even if
01:10:41
the similar canine hairs didn't come up in their re-examination of the items, it's still would have been better to
01:10:50
just say, "Look, this is what we found. Does anybody recognize this?" Right. So, that's one aspect that I will say
01:11:01
cuz I can't remember what the hell my curtains looked like 29 years ago. Right. Right.
01:11:06
I mean, what the [ __ ] I mean, I'm sorry. But like, you know, honestly, what the hell did your curtains look
01:11:12
like 29 years ago? You tell me. No idea. No. And they weren't And they weren't mine. I mean, well, they weren't
01:11:17
mine. They were my parents, but um So, uh sad enough, Bill, looking at the calendar later this month, October 27th,
01:11:27
will be 29 years ago Amy Mihaljevic was abducted and killed. And we're still still waiting to find out
01:11:38
what happened. Well, the one thing I'll say about the We're coming up on the 29-year
01:11:44
anniversary, but the one thing that we do have going for us as far as the people who are out there hoping that
01:11:50
this case is solved and the people that are working on solving the case is that they are working on it and they do have
01:11:58
DNA that they are using to you know, run through all the tests that they've been able to
01:12:04
track down the April Tinsley killer and the Golden State killer, they are working
01:12:09
with those labs to do you know, the testing to try and find out who this individual is. And Phil Torres needs
01:12:17
said it's could happen in a week, a month, a year, but it it's going to happen. You
01:12:23
know, I found um an article and I think it might have been from the New York Times
01:12:30
a few months ago that stated that at the time 12 states were actively pursuing that type of DNA testing that that that
01:12:42
solved those cases. And and two others were getting on board. So, that's 14 out of 50. So, Right.
01:12:50
I I I encourage everyone out there, if you live in one of those states that does not, one of the 36 states that does
01:12:58
not uh ascribe to this method, contact your uh city council members, your congressmen, your congresswomen, your
01:13:10
senators, somebody and voice your opinion because there's a lot of cold cases out there, there's a lot of
01:13:17
justice still to be served, there's a lot of bad evil men out there that still need to be
01:13:26
apprehended.