00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details Shopify is the
00:00:32
global Commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business with the internet's best converting
00:00:37
checkout 36% better on average compared to other leading Commerce platforms Shopify helps you turn browsers into
00:00:44
buyers in fact Shopify Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com
00:00:52
podcast free all lowercase shopify.com podcast free shopify.com podcast [Music] [Music]
00:01:28
free [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who says movies don't create psychos movies make
00:01:53
psychos more creative here is the captain it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
00:01:59
tell a [Music] friend today we are still sipping on this Imperial milk stout from Angry
00:02:10
Chair brewing and Prairie Artisan alses this is called adjunct Trail this is a wonderful stout beer with notes of
00:02:18
hazelnut coffee and coconut garage grade 4 and a qu bottle caps out of five thank
00:02:25
you to everybody who has contributed to the Beer fun as you heard a few weeks ago the captain was announcing that the
00:02:33
beer fund doesn't just fill up the fridge here in the garage it also goes to helping out some very good causes
00:02:40
like the porch light project and the national Center for missing and exploited children if you want to help
00:02:45
out the show and get something in return make sure you go to truecrimegarage decom and check out the store Page it is
00:02:52
Hoodie season there is a lot of great swag for you to check out on the store Page yeah BW e r n beer run if you're
00:03:02
not subscribed make sure you subscribe to the podcast make sure that you tell a friend make sure you tap him on the
00:03:09
shoulder you go tappy tappy tappy Hey listen to True Crime garage it's awesome you'll love it and maybe tell them your
00:03:19
favorite episode to start with and Colonel that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
00:03:26
chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime WEA is [Music] good is good is [Music]
00:03:49
good the FBI and Arizona police are still looking for a wanted man Jason Derek Brown who is Accused in respons
00:03:59
responsible for a 2004 armed robbery that resulted in a homicide this guy has been on the run for 18 years now and as
00:04:10
we discussed yesterday Captain we brought up the fact that we covered the FBI's 10 most wanted fugitives list back
00:04:17
in 2017 and I pointed out that the list has changed considerably since then there's
00:04:24
only one individual still on the list that I believe was on the list when we discussed it 5 years ago
00:04:30
and in fact our episode may have done some good because there was change to the list within days of us releasing our
00:04:38
episode so if you go to True Crim garage.com and you check out our blog most weeks when we put out an episode we
00:04:45
put up a a Blog on that case and you can get on there and you could submit a tip
00:04:52
you could ask a question about that week's shows you could provide some information a lot of times we get locals
00:05:00
people that are local to the case that we just covered that they get on there with some somewhat Insider information
00:05:07
that you would kind of have to be a local to know and they give us a little more details about the crime or the
00:05:12
person that we might be looking for if it's a missing person's case but if you go to our blog and you check back from
00:05:19
2017 on the Most Wanted episodes you'll see that we had some good people get on there and comment and one of the
00:05:26
individuals was a Kylie from New Jersey who posted that just 3 days after we released our episodes Walter yavan Gomez
00:05:37
was apprehended he was somebody that was on the list New Jersey gang member Walter yovani Gomez wanted in connection
00:05:44
with a brutal murder was arrested without incident August 11th 2017 they found him in Woodbridge Virginia and
00:05:55
then a week later a little more than a week later Lou maso was apprehended August 26th in Mexico and Sarah from
00:06:06
Parts Unknown says I like to think that it was because someone heard this episode and checked out the list yeah
00:06:12
and we're still waiting on our checks from the FBI yeah yeah there would have been rewards in both of those cases and
00:06:19
so good to see that the quick apprehension of some of these people that were on the list as we stated
00:06:26
yesterday Jason Derrick Brown is no longer on the list but they're going to have a spot opening up so I'm hoping
00:06:31
that they use the excuse of this movie to place him back on the list and to really put him back into the eyes of the
00:06:39
media and it was this case being in the media that led to a bunch of sightings you know everybody wants to know where
00:06:47
could this guy be where is he there were several sightings we mentioned yesterday
00:06:53
that he speaks fluent French and there were possible sightings in Canada he's also somebody that was raised in the
00:07:02
Mormon community and for a while at least there were they were getting sightings of Jason Derrick Brown in the
00:07:10
greater Salt Lake City area investigators even went so far to say publicly that they believe that Jason
00:07:16
Derek Brown may have been hiding in plain sight among the Mormon Community under an assumed identity and then there
00:07:24
were locations as far away as Quebec and Thailand that have been referenced in the Jason Derek Brown case as well one
00:07:33
thing that I found in my research here captain that I found fascinating was an article from April 20th
00:07:40
2020 from the Richland source and the title of their article was authorities Arizona fugitive sought
00:07:50
for murder may have been spotted in Mansfield Ashland Ohio area there's a picture of Jason Derek Brown in the
00:07:58
article and the article is coming out of Mansfield Ohio and it says authorities are seeking an Arizona man s for murder
00:08:05
that has possibly been spotted in the Mansfield Ashland area of Ohio Jason dererk Brown 50 he would have been 50 in
00:08:13
April of 2020 of Phoenix Arizona headlines this week's list of most wanted fugitives compiled by the
00:08:21
Northern Ohio violent fugitive task force in Richland County division for the week of April 20th Brown is 5 fo 10
00:08:29
in tall 175 lbs approximately with green eyes and blonde hair he is wanted for murder and armed robbery and Phoenix
00:08:38
authorities did not say where or when he may have been spotted in this Richland County area of Ohio but urge citizens to
00:08:47
not engage with him but call for help immediately well and based off his age I mean at this point his hair might not be
00:08:55
blonde it might be gray and and you would think that the stress of running from the law
00:09:02
enforcement for the last 14 years would maybe add to those gray hairs but I'm going to just put this out
00:09:11
there a con man maybe the job gets a little easier as you get older because you wouldn't be
00:09:19
suspecting a older gentleman to try to con you well and let's let the experts weigh in on the possibilities of where
00:09:28
he could be too so going back to Lance leasing special agent Lance leasing who was the agent in charge of this Manhunt
00:09:39
and portions of the investigation that led to this Manhunt when he's asked he was asked you know not just where could
00:09:46
he be but also do you think that Jason dererk Brown may have committed suicide that maybe he's no longer alive and Lon
00:09:55
goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say that they think
00:10:03
that happened Lon goes on to say quote it's a possibility there are some family members that will and friends that say
00:10:11
that that is what they think happened he goes on to say I don't know why he fled
00:10:16
for a while he planned the flight the agent says that he believes Jason Derrick Brown was ready for this that
00:10:22
that he could run at a moment's notice which is what he did obviously and so he said that based off of that information
00:10:31
that he does not believe that suicide would be something that Jason would do and he says I'm not a psychologist but
00:10:39
he doesn't want to get into the minds of all of that stuff too much but he says if you think of yourself that much that
00:10:45
highly of yourself is what he's saying suicide is probably not at the top of the list of things that he's going to do
00:10:52
well we know what he got from the robbery but we also don't know what other robberies he might have been
00:11:00
involved in so we don't really know how much like like they said FBI the FBI believes that this individual could have
00:11:09
ran at any time and maybe was planning for that how long was he planning that for and how much money did he have
00:11:17
stashed back to do so and did he have other resources that he already had set up did he set up other accounts did he
00:11:26
already come up with an alias did he already establish an identity alternative identity these are I mean he
00:11:35
was a con man for so long and I don't believe that Jason was a dumb individual I believe he he did have a a brain in
00:11:44
him well a big enough brain that he was able to con people out of money right and continually steal from people and
00:11:52
commit fraud over and over again and one thing that I thought was interesting too
00:11:57
is that the reporter asked the agent well what about plastic surgery do you think that that's
00:12:03
something that he Jason Derrick Brown may consider to change his look very dramatically the agent's answer is look
00:12:12
the pictures we have of him are old so he's going to change look and appearance just in age alone but also
00:12:22
um that that plastic surgery was something that Jason Dereck Brown may have discussed with family at some point
00:12:31
and that that would of course change potentially change his look dramatically right and that yes Jason would have
00:12:38
every reason to want to continue to hide from the FBI and hide from the authorities so he of
00:12:46
course does not want to look anything like the pictures out there the pictures of him
00:12:52
that are out there another thing that's very fascinating to me is like I was saying before this guy gets his
00:12:57
validation from outside sources but he did live a pretty normal life up until some
00:13:06
point when there was a switch that was flipped and so could an individual go back to that again you see a guy just
00:13:16
working a regular job driving a pickup truck you know change his hair color maybe changed his nose and you go that
00:13:28
that does it doesn't look like the same guy it doesn't act like the same guy and
00:13:33
maybe that's why we haven't caught him yet but it's also super fast thing because he's not the only individual in
00:13:39
the family that's missing that's correct his father's been missing for even longer than Jason has been missing so
00:13:46
that then that makes you wonder was he able and and let's just go over his father's story real quickly it seems
00:13:56
like his father was a a little bit of a con man got into some gambling and things of that
00:14:06
nature maybe even some gang activity right and and so some people go well he's he's not alive anymore he was taken
00:14:14
out by people and then other people say well he's on the run from those people not law enforcement but
00:14:23
maybe gangs or or organized crime so is it possible that he had some contact with his father and was they
00:14:35
they're on the run together yeah it's really interesting because his sister of course is portrayed in the movie
00:14:43
American murder and and plays a large role in this overall story this true crime story but she's on record as
00:14:53
saying that she believes or at least at one time did believe that the disappear parents of Jason Derek Brown's father
00:15:01
and Jason himself being on the Run were were completely tied and completely connected and she believed that it could
00:15:09
be connected in one of two ways either the father their father has stayed on the Run successfully for all of these
00:15:18
years and somehow Jason learned how to stay a ghost based off of his father being a
00:15:27
ghost or the other way that it could be connected in her mind was she said that there are days that she thinks that
00:15:35
maybe Jason Dereck Brown is responsible for The Disappearance of his father that
00:15:43
and the way that she worded it captain and her tone doesn't make it sound like he helped his father to disappear in
00:15:50
this sense that maybe he killed his father and made him disappear right that right the the murder of the Armed Guard
00:16:00
is not his first murder look we know he's capable of a heinous murder does that make him capable of
00:16:07
murdering his father absolutely and then is that the only two or there are other
00:16:13
murders that are involved because of Jason Brown constantly trying to con people and probably getting into some
00:16:20
sticky situations and maybe sometimes murdering somebody is the way out of that sticky situation the FBI has also
00:16:28
stated that they have reason to believe that at some point and they don't give it clear information like the more the
00:16:37
public knows the more the public has the chance to help you guys here but they state that they have information that at
00:16:43
some point while Jon Derrick Brown was on the run that he likely visited people he knew in the Salt Lake City area but
00:16:53
then an agent goes on and this is interesting too this is something for I hope the listeners ears per up a little
00:16:59
bit and they pay extra attention to this because again our purpose of us covering
00:17:04
Jason dererk Brown again is for the purpose of apprehending him just like when we covered the list five years ago
00:17:12
but an agent says quote it's very hard for individuals to change the way they live the way they behave this is a guy
00:17:22
who stays in shape likes Fitness likes to look good we are hoping that he is seen at a nightclub or a fitness club
00:17:31
and then they go on to say that he Jason Derrick Brown is an outdoorsy type as well so he would be very comfortable
00:17:38
Outdoors well one of the people listening to our coverage of the most wanted list in 2017 was writer and
00:17:45
director Matthew Gentile who is responsible for putting out this fine film American murder which is in
00:17:52
theaters now I'll give a little description of the movie Here Captain it's obviously based on a true story
00:18:00
they say this riveting Thriller follows murder an American fugitive Jason Derek Brown a charismatic con man bankrolling
00:18:09
his extravagant lifestyle through a series of scams Jason Dereck Brown is played by Tom
00:18:15
Pelfrey on Brown's Trail is Lance leasing a dogged FBI special agent played by Ryan Philippe Lance leing is
00:18:25
determined to put Brown Behind Bars when Brown's funds run low and his past catches up with him he plots his most
00:18:33
elaborate scheme yet pitting himself against the special agent in a deadly game of cat and mouse and becoming the
00:18:41
most unlikely and Elusive fugitive on the FBI's most wanted list we'll get to that interview with Matthew right after
00:18:49
this quick beer break this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
00:19:06
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:19:13
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:19:19
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:19:26
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:19:33
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:19:39
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:19:46
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% off your first month that's better help
00:19:55
hp.com garage Shopify is the global Commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of
00:20:03
your business with the internet's best converting checkout 36% better on average compared to other leading
00:20:09
Commerce platforms Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers in fact Shopify Powers 10% of all e-commerce in
00:20:17
the US sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com podcast free all lowercase shopify.com podcast free
00:20:26
shopify.com [Music] free joining us here in the garage for the very first time we have screenwriter
00:20:52
and director Matthew genel who is here to talk about his new true crime movie that is coming out based all on a true
00:21:01
story or mostly on a true story and we'll get into reasons why here in a bit Matthew introduce yourself to the
00:21:07
audience tell us a little bit who you are and tell us about this wonderful film that's coming out hi Nick hi
00:21:13
Captain thank you so much for having me um as you said my name is Matthew jentle
00:21:17
I'm a filmmaker and this is my first feature film American murderer it's a true crime Thriller about Jason Derek
00:21:24
Brown charismatic conman who became the FBI's most likely an elusive top 10 fugitive it'll be coming out in theaters
00:21:31
October 21st on demanded digital October 28th and I'm here to talk about it with
00:21:37
this movie the case it's based on and uh with you and your with you and the captain and your incredible audience and
00:21:43
I'm excited to connect I'm a fan of the podcast so I'm very grateful to you guys
00:21:47
for having me on this will be my first True Crime podcast as we recording it so I'm excited to to chat with you well
00:21:54
welcome in and we covered a little bit of the J in Derrick Brown story years ago when
00:22:01
we explored the FBI's top 10 most wanted fugative list with our listeners and at
00:22:08
the time Jason Derek Brown was one of the criminals that was on that list the FBI was seeking this individual and this
00:22:18
is very much a an FBI case as well as a local case for the local police there in
00:22:25
the greater Phoenix Arizona area now this is still a bit of an unsolved case because Jason Derek Brown while he has
00:22:34
been removed from the top 10 he is still a wanted fugitive the FBI and authorities are still looking for
00:22:42
him because he is wanted for murder and other crimes how do you how does a Matthew
00:22:50
Gentile how do you get involved in this story how how did you become aware of Jason derck Brown his crimes
00:22:59
and and then you have to to write this you have to almost live in the mind of this individual or at least have him on
00:23:08
your mind for quite some time well first off it's a great question thank you for
00:23:11
asking me that Captain Nick um the way I became the story came to me was when I was between the ages of 10 and 14 uh
00:23:22
before I wanted to be a filmmaker I wanted to be an FBI agent so I used to have a habit of going on the FBI's top
00:23:29
10 most wanted list on their website and looking at it to see you know if I could
00:23:33
help them catch a fugitive for the reward money it was a foolish naive dream I had as a kid um I learned about
00:23:39
the top 10 list from watching the movie Silence of the Lambs and then it's less good squel Hannibal where they showed
00:23:46
the FBI to 10 list on a computer so my 10 year my 11-y old brain ran with that and we go on the list and look at the
00:23:51
fugitives and on the FBI top 10 list as you two know from your episode and your coverage on the FBI top 10 list that
00:23:58
there's a lot of there's a sea of pretty menacing mean faces you know you've got
00:24:02
woody buer Osama Bin Laden and quite sophisticated high level and high operating criminals and then you have on
00:24:10
that list this surfer dude from Southern California with spiky blonde hair who looks so much like Shawn Penn that as
00:24:17
I'm sure you know from what you've read about the case Shan Pen's body double was arrested twice in the Years Jason's
00:24:22
been missing so you know the first thing I think when anyone sees any image of Jason dererk Brown regardless of my film
00:24:29
or before it you know they think this guy you know it's always been there was always a little bit of that so his face
00:24:35
stood out to me age 14 uh when I I was 14 years old when the crime was committed he became a top 10 fugitive a
00:24:42
few years later in 2007 but I remembered his face on the on the fbi.gov site so cut to you know about 12 years later I
00:24:52
graduated from film school at AFI American Film Institute and you know I was lucky two short films I had made I
00:24:59
made a western and a film about a rockstar losing his hearing those two films were playing a lot over the
00:25:04
festival circuit I was getting a lot of attention for them and I was trying to figure out what would be my first
00:25:09
feature as a filmmaker and you that's kind of always the big thing when someone when you graduate film school or
00:25:15
you have a short film that does well as everyone says what's your feature and I was kicking around a couple different
00:25:19
ideas attached to various projects I've always liked films in the crime Thriller
00:25:24
drama space you know the movie that made me want to be a filmmaker is a classic true crime film talk Day Afternoon you
00:25:31
know I've read that when I was 12 and became obsessed with it my father showed it to me and I my mom bought me the
00:25:38
screenplay as a Hanukkah gift because they used to sell screenplays on Street stands in New York City and she saw me
00:25:44
eyeing and she bought it for me for $10 and that was the first time I read a script so for me I always love films
00:25:48
about anti-heroes um you know criminals you know for me like a lot of my kids might
00:25:54
age R into Pokemon and uh you know whatever it was at the time time for me it was gangsters conmen criminals that
00:26:01
was that was my that those are my Pokemon so you know I'm I'm out of school I'm figuring out what my next you
00:26:07
know what my first feature is going to be and I'm storyboarding for a shoot I was shooting a commercial at the time
00:26:13
and I'm I'm drawing on my images and whenever I storyboard I uh I always have something on in the background usually
00:26:19
it's a it's a true crime docu series of some kind and all of a sudden out of nowhere Jason's face popped onto my t
00:26:28
screen the same and I just all like you it had been 12 years since I'd maybe even thought of him or her you know but
00:26:34
it just it came rushing back I just saw and I was like that's weird and so I started watching it neglected my story
00:26:41
boards and I said to myself oh my God this guy is still missing he's still out there how what happened how did that and
00:26:49
so I became you know pretty enraptured and you know I have a mentor named Billy Ray who's a top screen writer he's
00:26:54
written films like Captain Phillips and the hunger Gam and a great great writer and great guy and he said to me like his
00:27:01
rule of if he should write a script is if I don't if I wake up thinking about the project that's the project I should
00:27:06
do it's a great barometer I think for any you know anyone in any field and I I couldn't stop thinking about this movie
00:27:12
I just you know watching the story about Jason but you see you know it goes back
00:27:17
to what we were talking about earlier for me the movie is as much about Jason Derek Brown as it is about the web and
00:27:24
the people who knew him and who loved him and you know that the ious lenses through which we see Jason throughout
00:27:29
the film so for me you know at first it was like okay cool this has a lot of elements of like a fun pulpy crime
00:27:36
Thriller you know an armored car Heist you know a con man I love conman stories but what ultimately became the emotional
00:27:43
engine for me and my way in as a filmmaker you know because to me American murder is a movie about family
00:27:50
that's the theme uh every movie to me as a theme in for American murder its family um but you know that came through
00:27:56
you know multiple rewrites and drafts and so you know basically the the process of how it went
00:28:03
about getting makes I'm assuming you from your question you want to know about that as well you know the the way
00:28:09
it came from an idea of okay here's this guy Jason Dereck Brown who interested me
00:28:14
when I wanted to be an FBI agent to how does this become a movie at first I began writing the script you know on
00:28:21
spec which means just you know on my own on my own time thinking maybe you know I
00:28:26
could try to sell the script because it felt ambitious for a firsttime director you know to do it's a big you a pretty
00:28:32
big movie for that but as I started writing it I just began to research the case you know I started I did begin
00:28:39
interviewing some people I'm not going to name exactly who because I don't want to out them but I did interview people
00:28:43
who knew Jason and were associated or Associates of Associates and I began to gather a lot of Intel and information in
00:28:49
addition to reading everything I could get my hands on that was out there which on this case there is a lot of stuff um
00:28:56
so I became pretty upset I resembled Jake janal's character in zodiac just want to know everything I could and then
00:29:02
I began to write a script um and you know the first versions of the script were actually like just really going
00:29:09
with Jason's point of view but what It ultimately became as the movie progressed was an ensemble film where
00:29:18
it's really about seeing Jason through all these various perspectives and you know we um you know at first the way the
00:29:25
thing that really got it going was I made proof of concept short of the film I shot one scene from it which was
00:29:31
actually the climactic squad Invasion um in the movie I did completely differently and I shot a you know five
00:29:37
minute scene we had this great actor Jonathan graph in it who was attached at the time and once that uh short went
00:29:43
around and his show mind Hunter dropped a lot of people were you know interested
00:29:49
in it and this company traveling picture show and G2 companies traveling picture
00:29:53
show ran by Kevin Madison Carissa Pell and GG films ran by Gio Walsh these three producers at various points in the
00:30:01
process came together and banded and they really backed me and supported me and really loved the script and were you
00:30:08
know it helped me develop it into something much better than it initially was and you know we came together and we
00:30:14
made this thing in the at the height of the pandemic so it was quite a journey but you know at the end of the day it
00:30:21
was really Jason's Story and it began by just seeing the image of his face on this top 10 list you know to really
00:30:27
trying to see him as a full fleshed out character um who I could talk a lot about and you were kind enough to send
00:30:35
us a screener so we've been able to view it before this our sitdown here today and of course the movie is about Jason
00:30:42
Derek Brown his crimes but it's also about his family and then his fugitive status so tell everybody about your you
00:30:51
know you did a lot of research on this guy and tell us about Jason Brown and what you learned about him in your
00:30:59
resch well Jason you know there's as I said earlier there's a lot written about him and part of the you know challenge
00:31:05
of making a true crime film I would consider my genre it's true crime but I do True Crime fiction meaning that this
00:31:10
is based on a true story there was a lot of research but also in the process of making a movie one you know a director
00:31:17
and screenwriter and actors too everybody has to take creative Liberties to make it you know work as a film um so
00:31:24
you know what's in there there's the line between fiction and Truth is quite blurry in a movie like this but you know
00:31:31
there was an extensive research process while I was writing the screenplay what I learned about Jason Derek Brown was
00:31:36
you know and a lot of this is in the film or vaguely covered in the film um you know is that he was a con man um you
00:31:43
know first and foremost that was his profession you know Jason was not a guy who liked to work a nin to-5 you know he
00:31:49
was somebody who you know would would come into a neighborhood with lots of toys Cadillacs BMWs you know and he
00:31:56
presented him himself really is like a rich frat guy you know um in a in a Suburban neighborhood and we show that
00:32:02
in the film as there's a relationship with his his land lady love interest played by Adina Manel and uh her son um
00:32:09
you know so he's he's somebody who had that Larger than Life personality would buy you a drink at the bar you know
00:32:15
would take you out you know it just was a lot of fun to be around that kind of charismatic guy you know of his crimes
00:32:22
were pretty Petty for the most part bank fraud things of that nature you know but
00:32:27
he was always basically traveling around place to place never staying one place for too long so that he could you know
00:32:33
stay off the trail of creditors and people who were on to him as his crimes escalated his his pet his Petty cons you
00:32:41
know he started to basically lose the ability to do it he he became desperate in his own mind and decided to rob an
00:32:46
armored truck and that became you know what was the central crime that put him on the FBI's top 10 list so you know his
00:32:53
upbringing which there is quite a bit written about and one of you know the craziest Mysteries of the movie is also
00:33:00
about how his father um who was a con man himself um you know the the background of Jason's interesting
00:33:08
because he actually came from very it looked like on Sur was a strict Mormon upbringing they were a Mormon family the
00:33:13
Browns but um Jason's father was a con man himself and had criminal ties and he his father disappeared off the grid in
00:33:23
1994 10 years before Jason did so there's a bit of an odd mystery around that in terms of the research process
00:33:31
there was a lot written about these characters you know which was my main source of information was from there
00:33:38
were a lot of documentaries made about them there were a lot of articles there was even a book at one point there's a
00:33:43
lot a couple books so there was a lot of information out there which you know I read a news and I like I said I did
00:33:48
interview people there's a couple of characters in the film who are what we call composite characters meaning
00:33:53
they're based on one or two folks some of whom were interview to give me as much information about Jason as possible
00:33:59
but then I ultimately take all that information of which there is a lot and there are some amazing true things that
00:34:05
happened that unfortunately can't make the movie I I find doing research extremely important one key part of my
00:34:11
research process I will can talk in death about was my um I have I was very lucky to work with a detective named
00:34:18
Adam Richardson who actually runs a podcast called uh the writer detectives Bureau writer detectives Bureau um he
00:34:25
consults a lot of screenwriters and directors in Hollywood and he actually I'm sure you guys are aware of the Jesse
00:34:32
James Hollywood case MH yes he actually was the detective who worked that case and I believe he arrested Jesse James
00:34:38
Hollywood if not had a key role in in getting him back here so he was he worked the case of Jesse James Hollywood
00:34:43
and he worked very closely with me and gave me a lot of incredible and valuable insight into the police procedural
00:34:51
process um because you know we were not able to consult with the FBI on the film
00:34:54
because the FBI it is an open case still um even though Jason was taken off the top 10 list it's the case is still open
00:35:00
Jason technically still is reported missing so you know it the FBI can't Co cooperate with filmmakers or authors on
00:35:08
a case on an open investigation but you know we were able to use the FBI in the film and all that but yeah this
00:35:16
detective Adam Richardson was phenomenal he really helped me you know make sure I
00:35:21
our process was interesting he read a couple drafts of a screenplay and after I consulted with him
00:35:27
I definitely made some things better and more accurate um but while I was even on
00:35:32
set shooting you know when we were staging the crime scene and all those elements I was showing at him you know I
00:35:38
was FaceTiming him from the set I couldn't have him there because it was Co and or the amount of people we could
00:35:43
have on set was limited but he was face on me for all the things like The swad Invasion you know to the car you know to
00:35:50
every police element in the script the the stake out and the uh storage units all those you know action set pieces
00:35:56
this gentleman adamon was very generous with this time and really helped me uh you know know as much about police
00:36:02
procedure as I could so that we were portraying it accurately and authentically as possible it's
00:36:06
interesting though too because I look at somebody like Jason Derek Brown and I I
00:36:11
cannot help but Wonder was it the divorce that spawned this kind of wild behavior that led into
00:36:20
a lot of criminal activity Petty leading up to this execution style murder or was it
00:36:28
his personality that led to his divorce or you know the the chicken or the egg we don't know what happened first or
00:36:35
what led to one thing led to another but yeah he has a very bizarre upbringing to
00:36:40
me almost you know raised by by a criminal like father but also goes off on this
00:36:49
missionary adventure and he's talked very highly of by a lot of people that were very close to him
00:36:57
and then he is accused of this execution style murder which I mean this is one of
00:37:03
the most coldblooded homicides that I can think of right like right Jason Derrick Brown
00:37:11
knew he was killing someone that day when he woke up and when he went to the AMC theater that day the thing the thing
00:37:18
that is so horrific about this to me is he didn't know the individual's name it didn't matter the individual's name it
00:37:27
didn't matter who that person was he was going to rob that armored car that day and he was going to flee and whoever
00:37:37
happened to be holding the bag was going to be catching bullets from Jason Derek
00:37:42
Brown and in your movie one thing that I want to give you big Kudos on here Matthew is I've read pretty detailed
00:37:51
descriptions of that crime right the way that it is in your movie I don't know that anybody could have done any better
00:37:59
of a job playing that out for the viewers I mean it I think you got it as accurate as you as one possibly could
00:38:07
well thank you for saying that you know and like I said you know just like what you guys do in making True Crime podcast
00:38:13
know research and authenticity is important you know and you want to capture it as authentically as possible
00:38:19
you know um yeah and that that you know there was a lot to research because it was a very it was actually a much more
00:38:27
sophisticated crime than it looked like you know because exactly it was very calculated um is the word I would use to
00:38:34
describe the whole thing you know he scoped out the right Alleyway he scoped out you know he knew what street he
00:38:40
could go and you know look um you know I as a filmmaker I find it's very I cannot
00:38:46
make a movie with passing judgment on any character I'm portraying you know whether it's the antagonist the
00:38:51
protagonist and in this case you know your antagonist is your protagonist in this movie um you know and on the record
00:38:58
what Jason did is a horrendous horrific act as you you know as you point it out you know for me the power of of film and
00:39:08
Cinema is that you can look at characters like Jason Derek Brown and put them under a light so you know you
00:39:13
could shine a light on a dark soul and ultimately try to you know without being sentimental move the audience to
00:39:22
understand who this person was I'm not saying like and I'm not saying feel 54 but help them see him for who he was
00:39:31
and what he meant to be because you're right this man did a really horrifying monstrous act he was also loved by many
00:39:38
people and so that's what the movie ultimately is grappling with is like you know are we capable of having you know
00:39:47
of moving an audience to a place of compassion understanding for someone who is a soul someone who's rotten to the
00:39:52
core and did something so heinous and so that's what I'm you know as a filmmaker
00:39:56
and I'm not saying you can and I'm not saying you can't I'm just asking the question with the movie so you know
00:40:01
that's what the that's the ultimate central question of like why you know when people ask me in interviews you why
00:40:06
do you want to make this film what made you want to tell the story and that was it for me you know was can you take
00:40:10
someone like Jason and and moving on and you look we grew up in the era at least my generation did of you
00:40:18
know the TV shows Breaking Bad in The Sopranos you know and you watch Tony Soprano and he's he's a monster he's a
00:40:24
sociopath but you kind of can't help love him a little and so or same with you know Walter White and Breaking Bad
00:40:30
so I I think you know film and TV is becoming more and more sophisticated in this way especially with all the shows
00:40:36
that are out there and and the books and and the True Crime boom that we live in
00:40:40
right now you know thankfully um you know in in this true crime boom it's it's asking the questions of why why did
00:40:47
someone do this and I think you know there's a lot to unpack with this character um I don't know if that
00:40:53
answered your question I think somebody like a Jason Brown lands on on this top 10 list from the FBI for a multitude of
00:41:00
reasons but I I personally believe that it's probably because the trail for the FBI on Brown went completely cold
00:41:09
because he's not placed on that list until three years after the crime part of it I think is the crime itself when
00:41:16
you really try to dissect the elements of that crime and the crime that he committed one robbing an armored car is
00:41:24
not common that not a common crime at all bank robbery is far more common than right robbing an armored car now you rob
00:41:32
an armored car and what you see traditionally typically in those types of crimes they are much more violent
00:41:41
than a bank heist bank heist the majority of them it's some guy passing a note to the teller that's the way that
00:41:49
the majority of them work most of these armored car robberies involve a high level of violence Ence and in this case
00:41:57
murder and Jason Brown ambushed this this gentleman this guy was a guy just like the three of us who woke up this
00:42:07
morning went off to their work went off to their job we want to do a good job we
00:42:11
want to knock it out of the park here today and but at the end of the day our number one goal is to go home to our
00:42:17
homes and to our families and this individual was not able to do so because of the the cold calculated mind mind of
00:42:26
somebody like Jason Brown I mean we're talking about Robert Keith palomarez who was only 24 years old did not even get a
00:42:34
chance to pull his firearm when he's attacked by Brown because Brown ambushes him Brown manages to get off six shots
00:42:45
he's at close enough range we're not talking about a highly skilled Marksman here we're talking about a guy that
00:42:50
ambushed and and snuck up on this guy and and the closer he got the faster he was pulling that trip Trigger he hits
00:42:57
palomarez six five out of six shots hit above the neck on our victim and that's because Brown knows that that he is
00:43:07
going to be wearing bulletproof vest and he's going to go for parts on the the wouldbe victim that cannot be covered
00:43:16
cannot be protected this unfortunately this individual didn't stand a chance he he didn't have a chance there was no
00:43:22
fight because he was ambushed by Brown and then Brown this is how cold he is ice cold he he has to walk up to the
00:43:30
body and Pull and tug on the money bag to get it out of to pry it from the fingers of our
00:43:38
victim here to the point that he drops the bag he drops the gun and then he picks both of them up before before he
00:43:44
fleas but I and I think I think when you really kind of dissect this crime and there's a lot of thought put into it
00:43:51
there has to be it's so calculated you examine the mind in the personality of the type of criminal that would carry
00:44:00
out this type of crime and you see just how dangerous this person is to the general
00:44:07
public as a whole because he does not think of people the way that you and I think of people he does not think of
00:44:15
life or this Earth the way that the rest of us do he sees this as a grid as a giant chessboard and there's a lot of
00:44:25
Pawns out there and as far as he's concerned there's very few Kings Knights and queens and
00:44:31
he's one of the kings in his own mind and the rest of us are just fod we're we're we're pawns to be dismissed to be
00:44:38
done away with so that he can keep going and that and that always makes him dangerous and then on top of that while
00:44:45
he's on the run that makes him extremely dangerous as well because we've seen what he he will resort to in this
00:44:53
situation and now that he's On The Run who knows what he's capable of yeah it definitely makes Jason Derek Brown a
00:45:01
very dangerous individual and people that think they might know where he's at should be very careful and contact law
00:45:09
enforcement immediately the one thing that the film doesn't get into dive into too much but I did want to get your
00:45:18
opinion on because you you you were you were busy writing and exploring this man
00:45:24
and his crimes and his in his personal life for such a long period of time you know one thing that a couple things that
00:45:32
he did that were very interesting I thought while he was on the run at first the police and the FBI even though they
00:45:40
knew who who had committed this crime they didn't come out and publicly announce that because they thought that
00:45:47
the The Manhunt would change there would be a giant shift in The Manhunt and in Jason's actions and
00:45:54
behaviors based off of the fact that he is under the assumption that nobody knows that he did this he may know that
00:46:03
people are looking for him or he knows he's on the run but for a period of time he doesn't know that they know that he's
00:46:09
the one that committed this crime at some point they have to publicly announce that and I think it was about a
00:46:13
month or so after um the crime was committed and then a few years later he his name is added to this 10 most wanted
00:46:22
list but well actually just to um just a little correction there so what what actually happened was in no so the
00:46:30
murder was committed November 29th and they figured it out quite fast uh because of the fingerprint left on the
00:46:36
bike they knew it was Jason or they knew Jason was at least very much involved right on December 6th I believe Jason
00:46:43
was staying at his sister's house and the Phoenix police did have a press conference where they released Jason's
00:46:51
image from taken from the gun store which became his top 10 fugitive image and that was put on TV and somebody
00:47:00
nobody knows who called or let Jason know that they were looking for him and that was how he was able to get out
00:47:10
before the police and FBI stormed his sister's house so he was aware that he was one and that's part of how he was
00:47:17
able to get away and then he actually drove his car down to allegedly down to San
00:47:23
Diego um they thought he was going to go across the border and then he apparently
00:47:29
got because they he swiped his credit card at a gas station near the San Diego Mexico border and then allegedly though
00:47:37
did not cross they had apbs out for him and disappeared Into The Ether and they found his car in Portland Oregon now
00:47:44
nobody knows if he actually went to Portland Oregon right he could have not yeah that's another one of the many many
00:47:50
Unsolved Mysteries you know he could have paid somebody to send the carb to Portland but um
00:47:56
you know but that's so that's just you know something to keep in mind was they did they did release um to the press
00:48:02
that was considered I think by many people to be a huge mistake to release his image to the Press when they did but
00:48:08
you know they had their Reasons I'm sure and that's uh that's that but yeah obviously we can only track so much of
00:48:14
his movements uh if we could track them all we wouldn't be having this conversation right right yeah
00:48:19
interesting to me I goes down to San Diego gives the impression that he might be headed for Mexico and then
00:48:28
finding and then some trace of him in Portland Oregon gives the impression of maybe he's going the other route to
00:48:34
Canada right you know it's like you know he's a con man you know that's who Jason
00:48:39
is at the core to me always was a con artist how do con artists get you they prey on one's confidence right so you
00:48:47
know I think he you know was and look he was also coached in the art of Disappearing you know part of you know
00:48:52
the storyline with his father is that he would you know they the father who used
00:48:57
to say to the kids apparently growing up if I if I'm gone for more than you know
00:49:01
two hours or 48 Hours get rid of everything so you know this was someone who knew how to you know probably work
00:49:09
under the black mark criminal Market get fake IDs whatever you needed to get on out and and disappear you know
00:49:17
so it was pretty he was pretty sophisticated in that way as a criminal and then he's remarkably unsophisticated
00:49:23
in other ways as a criminal so I think what again makes him so interesting I don't want to back you into the corner
00:49:30
here Matthew but uh where do you think back I'll get out where where do you think he where do you think he is you
00:49:37
know we had in the production office of the movie we had a running list on the window of all the places he might be um
00:49:44
you know for a while I I have thought he was out of the country that was always my guess during the writing of the film
00:49:54
I think there's a very good chance he's not alive anymore I think that's highly possible I don't know if that's true but
00:49:59
I think that could be the case if he is and he's still running my guesses somewhere either in like Australia or
00:50:06
southeast Asia would be my would be my best not you know I guess somewhat educated guess but it's a big mystery
00:50:15
but I don't think he could be in the country I me he was allegedly spotted in Salt Lake City in 2008 where we filmed
00:50:20
the movie and that was an area where he had tremendous ties to was City so I there were people on our crew who knew
00:50:27
him uh who who were very close to people who knew him there was you know he but he had Ser you know when we were
00:50:33
scouting pawn shops and gun stores for the movie there were people who would ask about be like oh yeah I knew I knew
00:50:38
Jason Dereck Brown um so there were you know he he he had a lot of ties um to many different areas you know he also
00:50:47
Jason's fluid in French I think he also speaks spoke Spanish so you know that's a lot of the world that he could get
00:50:55
through well and so you say if he is in your opinion if he's still alive probably outside of the
00:51:03
country somewhere if he's not still alive what's your speculation there are we do we think because his attitude his
00:51:10
personality to me does not in any shape or form suggest suicide right me neither what I what I
00:51:20
think could be a possibility here if he's not still around would be look you can only con so many people
00:51:29
until until you con the wrong person and retribution takes place right um right and that that's kind of where where my
00:51:40
my thoughts go to but I mean he might not be on the top 10 list anymore but there's still a $200,000
00:51:47
reward out for right his for his capture and that's a lot more money than what he
00:51:54
made off in his armored car Heist right well that's the other thing you know people say a lot is
00:52:00
you know $60,000 isn't that much money so how did he get out and go about how did he disappear like that's not a ton
00:52:08
of money you know it's not like in Breaking Bad when Walter White has all that money to go disappear or you know
00:52:14
Bob Odenkirk right better you know s Goodman has all that money to disappear this is a different scenario so yeah you
00:52:20
know there there's endless speculation on where he can be and you know to be honest you know I got
00:52:26
like I don't feel backed into a corner by that question at all I think it's a totally legit question that I've been
00:52:30
asked before you know but I never really it's never been something that's been that much on my mind you know as a
00:52:36
filmmaker I you know felt like but for me the movie ends when he's gone you know and that's it and that's kind of
00:52:43
where the story ends you know I would be of course if someone updated me and told
00:52:46
me where he was or what actually happened I definitely be interested to hear but you know the film wasn't so
00:52:52
much about that to me cuz look even though and now maybe maybe we call this a spoiler section so for your listeners
00:52:58
if you haven't seen the movie maybe watch it before you listen to this very small part of the interview you know
00:53:03
maybe like for me the movie is about a loss of humanity in a human as well this this man really eroded his own Humanity
00:53:11
to get this money and he by the end of the film yes he does get away with the crime in theory what kind of life is
00:53:20
that you know he's he he can never talk to anyone he knows or loves again he has
00:53:24
to disappear he has to you know he can't go out much right he has to kind of stay
00:53:29
you know so it's like at the end of the day this man like has disappeared and it's is as
00:53:37
if he is dead you know the act of him sending a box of all of his things to his sister you know is in a way saying
00:53:44
goodbye forever Jason Derek Brown as far as you know him no longer exists right he's like erased his own identity pretty
00:53:53
much so you know while it is definitely not you know it's a it is a tragic ending and I think it's a tragic film
00:54:00
you the film is tragedy at at the core in terms of what how the story line plays out so yes he does get away but
00:54:07
this is this is no happy ending right for anybody involved and I think that he um he
00:54:16
[Music] disappeared is good is [Music] yeah want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage joining us every
00:54:39
week make sure you subscribe to the podcast one of the perks of having a true crime podcast is we got to watch
00:54:47
the screener of American murderer and that's this week's recommendation yes you can find that recommendation and
00:54:54
many more on our recommended page on our website true Crim garage.com go see American murderer it's
00:55:02
in Select theaters now or if you want to stay home and watch it on the comfort of
00:55:07
your own couch it is available on demand streaming on demand as well that's American murderer thank you to Matthew
00:55:15
Gentile for joining us this week in the garage and check us out again next week same bat Time same bat Channel until
00:55:23
then be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] look Shopify is the global Commerce platform
00:56:04
that helps you sell at every stage of your business with the internet's best converting checkout 36% better on
00:56:10
average compared to other leading Commerce platforms Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers in fact
00:56:16
Shopify Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slmp podcast free
00:56:24
all lowercase shopify.com SLP podcast free shopify.com SLP podcast free