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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always is a man that knows if he kills all the golfers, they're going
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to lock him up and throw away the key. Here is the Captain. That's right. It's good to be seen and
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it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Today we are drinking one of my
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favorite, one of our favorite holiday beers. It's that time of year again. Available for a limited time in bottles
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and cans. Just clap your hands, clap your hands. Or if you know a really good bar, they have it on tap. That's right.
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We're talking about Holiday Cheer by the merry and bright folks over at Shiner Beers. Shiner Holiday Cheer is brewed
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with Texas peaches and pecans. This is one of our favorites. Garage grade five out of five bottle caps. Now let's
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spread some cheer to our merry and bright garage friends. First up, a big cheers to Nathan Weston from Sunshine
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Coast, Australia. And a big shout out to Martine. He's a Brummy from Birmingham,
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England. Next Captain, we have a cheers to Allison who says that we are both younger and hotter than she's pictured.
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Allison. Allison is in Jersey Village, Texas. Allison, don't let the beer goggles fool you. We look like something
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that's been living in a garage for the last 6 years. Yep, we're in our 40s, but we look like we're going on 97. And a
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big shout out to Janine in Billings, Montana. Next, Captain, we have a cheers to Holly in Kennesaw, Georgia. And last,
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but certainly not least, we have a double-fisted cheers to DJ in Everyone we just mentioned went to
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double R U N beer run. Go get you some at the store page. And it's a great way to support the show. For everything True
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Crime Garage, check out truecrimegarage.com. And that is enough of the business.
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All right, everybody, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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All right, I got a guy on the phone from Colorado. Claims he's been killing prostitutes, and he's wondering why he's
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doing it. Oh god. So, maybe uh he he thinks I have an answer. Is this Ed? Ed? No, this isn't Ed. Oh. You haven't
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killed any prostitutes? No, I never said my name was Ed. Oh. Sorry. That's okay. What's your What name do
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you use? You can call me Clay. Clay? Clay? Yes, Clay. Okay, Clay. So, what happened? How many
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prostitutes have you killed? 12. And you're wondering why you do it? I have a pretty good idea. Why? Did your
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mom beat you? Did your mom spank you? Did Was your mom a prostitute? No. Actually, nothing like that. What is it
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then? Think I just do it for the sense of the power. Right. Do you have sex with them first?
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Yes, and And then what? You strangle them? Once. How else do you kill them? Well, a few times. Actually, most times
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with a hammer. Hm. And where do you do this primarily? Uh I've done it twice in a parking garage.
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And then the rest of the times on the side of the road. And uh you're from the New Orleans area?
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Yes. Hm. And how I mean, what do you You beat them to death with a hammer? Uh usually it takes once and it's Dude,
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you got to have a lot of anger in you. Yes. And that means you're heartless. Do you kill small animals?
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No. I've killed a rat. Yeah. Dude, you're a serial killer. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And you get away with it, I guess,
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cuz they're hookers and so far nobody What? Is this Howard? Yeah. Hello? Hello? I didn't know this was Howard. Yeah,
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it's Howard. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've never killed a kitten. Huh. So, how old were were you when you
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killed your first woman? 16. And uh you must be a powerful kind of guy, big guy.
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Uh I wasn't then. Right. And uh when you killed your first one, did you go in there knowing you were going to kill her
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or did it sort of happen? I I knew I had I had I really had it planned out. Hm. You know, I wanted to
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do the whole sending clues. Right. Oh, yeah. Are you in the baffle people, but it turned out no one noticed for a
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long time. Right. Like what Like you killed her on the side of the road? Uh her that was the parking garage.
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Okay. And then what you do with the body? You dump that somewhere? Um Yeah, actually. I think uh she's
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probably one of the ones that they found. Yeah. But let me ask you something. You were sending clues that
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you were going to do this? No, I was I was going to like doing that. He was going to leave like a note for the
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newspapers and you know Uh but you decided not to. Yeah, he didn't want to be famous or draw
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attention to himself. But my problem is you didn't That's what I wanted to do. But Oh, but you did but
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no one noticed the clues. I No, I never sent the clues. I never left anything. You know, I wanted to
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have my own little signature. Right. I wanted to thumb paint with their thumbs. Oh, really?
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What do you want to do? Thumb paint with their thumbs. Thumb paint what though? I
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don't know. Oh, anything. It It was in a comic book a couple years ago. It just seemed like a good idea. Like you take
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the girl you killed, you you dip her thumbs in paint and then you do like a thumb painting? Yes. On a piece of
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paper? Yeah. Hm. Now, when you After you kill somebody, do you play with the body?
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Um Actually, the closest I've ever done to that is I always make sure I pay them
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and I make sure they keep their money. Oh, really? When they're still alive but uh
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with one of them I did put the money in a compromising place. I see. But that was this one you know, it it had a
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penis. Oh, really? It was a guy? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know at first. So, do you you
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ever get Do you think the reason you're so angry is because you were abused or something?
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No, I wasn't abused, Howard. Where's your family? You got a wife? I mean, you got a mom, a
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dad, a wife, children? You got any of that? I've got a couple of kids but um I no wife. Not married to the mother. Mhm.
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You're a white guy? Uh yeah. Well, that's pretty funny because the only suspect they had when
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they started finding the bodies was a black police officer. Turns out one of them uh
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was associated with them. Oh, really? Yeah. Are you on drugs? Uh I've done acid a few times. Mhm. So so
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but nothing heavy. So if you killed after you killed the first 60-year-old, like uh you you finish you you finish
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was 16. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. All right. So you finish with your uh sexual
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gratification and then you Not always, no. Not always. You don't even want to get laid
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sometimes. No, I just You just want to kill. Uh I'm just bored. Right. But does the killing sexually satisfy
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you in some way? I can't believe that McMahon's not laughing. I've I've I've I've I've eaten off thinking about it
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later. Yeah. What do you say? He's He's pleasured himself thinking about it later. Oh, he has. Okay. Now how far
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apart are these murders? Like do you murder and then like you feel satisfied for a while? Um
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I don't even understand why I do it, Howard. I don't know if if I ever get any satisfaction.
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Mhm. But how how often were uh the same night. Really? You killed two people in the same night? Yeah, but I
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went to Mississippi for the second one. Mhm. Mhm. So there's no pattern to how many
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weeks or days between murders? No. Are these mostly white chicks or black chicks?
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Uh kind of a fair number of them have been black. The uh transvestite was black. Is there
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some racial motivation here? No, Howard. They were just uh let's just say in Jimmy Swaggertown.
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Mhm. Jimmy Swaggertown. Don't know what that means. Me neither, but Uh that's that's pretty much the
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area around here where the prostitutes all hang out. I see. And it's just whoever comes up to you.
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You don't pick a certain type. I don't even approach them. I wait for them to approach me, Robin. It's like
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they're asking for it. Do you ever like look into their eyes and go, you know, gee, these these
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people were just children at one point and maybe they just had a tough life. I've let a couple go. You have? Like
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what happened? You're in the middle of killing them and then they and then they What do they say? Why would you let one
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go and kill the other? There was this one. Go ahead. Uh I think she was probably really new to it. Yeah.
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I There was just something about her. And maybe she reminded me of my fiance, but Right.
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You somehow relate More more of an innocent quality. I just You somehow felt bad for her.
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Yeah. Hm. You So, okay. So, you killed your first woman. When was the last time you killed?
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It's been a few months. Actually, it's it's been going on a year. Wow. So, what do you think you're going to do? Do you
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think you're going to kill yourself? Do you think that uh you think you'll to kill again?
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Can you stop this? myself I'd miss the next Batman movie. Right. You don't want to do that. No.
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No, but in all seriousness, I mean, do you think that uh you could control this?
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Do you think you could stop? I think I have been. Oh, you have been for the last couple of months.
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A year he hasn't killed. A year? Yeah. Almost. So, why do you think you stopped killing
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all of a sudden? I really don't know, Howard. I just Part of it had to do with my car broke
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down. Oh, no transportation. Seriously, that's the reason? Well, that was the reason for a month, but after
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that, I guess it was all self-control. Wow. So, you don't want to do this anymore.
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No, he wants to do it, but he's controlling himself. Like you want to kill women, right?
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Sure. Yeah. And what And do you like it Do you enjoy seeing them struggle as you kill them?
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Uh actually, none of them really struggle. Hm. Do you hit them from behind or do they see it coming?
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Uh I can't get inside their minds, but I should say I hit them. But I mean, are you facing them?
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Yeah. So, you could see their face and everything when you do it. Yeah. Yeah. The worst I've ever gotten was um
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one tried to grab my neck. I've never gotten any of the claw marks or anything that are uh
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dead giveaways. Right. You must be very powerful. I wouldn't call myself powerful. Maybe
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uh intimidating. Why did you use a hammer? Do you think you uh Uh cuz it was in a book I read. Oh. Oh,
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everything has come from Cartoons and Yeah. When's the last time you got laid? Uh last week, Howard. Oh, yeah. So, you
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didn't kill that girl? No. Cuz she wasn't a hooker. No. Right. It's only hookers, though. A lot of serial killers
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are only the hookers cuz they know A, probably won't get caught and B, they have some kind of anger toward hookers.
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So, there's no way I'm going to talk you into giving yourself up or anything, right?
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No. I shouldn't even waste my time. I know I'm going to get calls after this and people are going to go, "Howard, how
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come you didn't catch him?" I know You have Has anybody ever been close to catching you?
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No. No. Actually, someone once wrote when it was in the newspaper, someone joked to me, "I know it was you." But uh
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well, they were joking. Right. Do you have a lot of tattoos? Uh I don't have any tattoos. I wouldn't
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do that to myself. Right. And do you get high before you do this? Uh I've gotten pretty drunk before.
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Yeah. Am I the only guy you can Am I the only guy you've ever told about this? Yeah. Hm.
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Wow. I just That's sort of an honor. I told a couple of women, Howard, but uh You did?
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Yeah. Do you tell them first and then you kill them? Uh yeah. What do you say to them? Let me
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All right, let's see. You can run and then you can play the running game if you're out in the middle of nowhere and
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we got a lot of middle of nowhere down here. Right. So, in other words, let's say you're with a woman, right? A
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hooker. Yeah, Howard. And you say to her uh okay, honey. You know, you just had sex
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and everything. What do you say to her to torment her? How do you break the news to her that
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she's going to die? I It really depends on my uh mood. Just give us an example. Well, if I wanted to, I could just say
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Baba Booey, but that would be pretty uh No, come on, be serious. What do you say
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to him? I I can say you're going to die. And then what do they do? I like to articulate a little more than
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that. Mhm. Sometimes I ask them uh if they think it's dangerous doing what they're doing, if they're
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worried about things, and they'll laugh it off, and that just pisses me off. Right.
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And then you go ahead and you kill them. Yeah. Hm. All right. Well, there you go.
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Well, you heard it there, folks. In November of 1997, a man calling himself Clay, saying he is the killer of sex
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workers, a dozen at that, calling from the New Orleans area to speak with shock jock, legendary DJ
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Howard Stern. Calling up, telling Howard Stern that he believes that he got into killing women
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for fame and notoriety, and later he now believes that he does it simply for power and control.
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And this is a call that has been an interesting one. Obviously, this is an older call, but one that really sparked
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a lot of renewed interest just earlier this year. In fact, in the fall of 2021. And I don't know why all of a sudden,
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here, Captain, this pops up on the radar, something that everybody's really interested in
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all, you know, all these years later. But, one guess that I have is anybody that listens to Howard or is the proud
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listener of Sirius XM knows that Howard has two whole channels devoted to him and the shenanigans of his staff and
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crew. And the Howard Station 101, which is arguably one of my favorite stations on
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Sirius XM, plays a lot of the best of or Sternthology or, you know, the older shows. Interestingly enough,
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here Captain, I remember roughly around August or September of this year, they played this call again. They played
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the entire segment, which I believe was multiple callers in this clay killer of women was only one of maybe three
00:16:07
callers during a maybe a 20-minute segment. And but it's by far the most intriguing
00:16:15
of those three calls and absolutely one of the most intriguing calls that Howard
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has received in his very lengthy career. Well, and just to get this right because I'm I'm not an
00:16:26
avid Howard Stern listener. I think he does great interviews. I think he's obviously evolving throughout the years
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and this was 20-some years ago. I think you can tell from this interview uh Howard's kind of listening.
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Like where I think Howard has become a better listener when he's doing interviews now than
00:16:47
Yeah, and obviously it's just a caller calling in, but you can tell there's a couple times
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where the he has the caller has to correct Howard cuz he's not really fully engaged
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in the call. But so what I'm guessing is that they'd have a call-in section and that section would be normally about
00:17:05
20-some minutes long. And then if one call is kind of boring, you cut them off at a
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couple minutes, but this one was pretty intriguing, so it last almost 11 minutes long. Yeah, and I think what you
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have there and as someone who's listened to Howard for quite some time, this is actually
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typical Howard to me. Like and I think it's not because he's not trying to listen, I
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think he's quarterbacking a lot of stuff that's going on that we don't see because all we're hearing is the audio.
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And one thing that I know that he does from time to time cuz he spoke about it on the radio is he's like trying to
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determine trying to gauge in his own mind is this an interesting caller or not? Because if it's not, boom, I'm
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dumping this call. I'm here to put out an interesting show and we'll move on to the next caller.
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This is one of those ones where I think he's trying to gauge that but he he sounds like he's
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very intrigued by what this guy is saying and in a way almost trying to figure out the guy. Maybe not to the
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point of identifying him but at least to the point of trying to gauge if this guy is legit or if he is
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genuine in what he is claiming to be because it's not every day that some guy calls up a radio station saying, "Hey,
00:18:24
I've killed a dozen women and I really just called to tell you about it." And I think I mentioned earlier to to
00:18:31
you this year when we're putting together a a schedule list and we'll take the cases and then
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map out where we're going to put them on the schedule. My thought was this would
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be interesting to hear you dissect this call. You being a Howard Stern listener and you being into true crime, what was
00:18:50
your thoughts and opinions on this call? Surprisingly, it seems like in the last
00:18:55
couple months other people got this same idea to dissect this call and there's a couple
00:19:01
videos and stuff on YouTube where people are doing that. Well, and what's really interesting uh
00:19:07
behind the scenes here in the garage, when you brought it up, I had it on my list and I thought, "Oh, this is
00:19:12
perfect. Thank God he brought it up." Because it's always more exciting to cover something that you're excited
00:19:18
about, but to know that your your partner in crime is excited to cover as well. So, you know that it's going to be
00:19:25
a good interesting conversation even if nobody else hears it, right? But so, I I had said it well,
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you know, I heard the call again. It's one that I had heard over the years and I was always very intrigued by the call
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and I thought, "You know what? This would be be perfect for something for Off the Record." cuz we're always kind
00:19:43
of looking for true crime, but also kind of off-the-wall topics for Off the Record.
00:19:48
Right. You said to me, you go, "Well, I think it's interesting enough maybe maybe it goes on the regular show." And
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then what kind of echoed that idea was we started getting emails from people that were saying, "Hey, have you ever
00:20:02
heard the Howard Stern serial killer phone call? We would love to hear a discussion about
00:20:08
that on the show." So, the listeners asked for it and here we are doing it and this call to me is is incredibly
00:20:17
interesting because I find myself walking the high wire of whether I believe this guy or not, right? I It's a
00:20:24
It's a balancing act and it's not that I want to believe him or it's not that I don't want to believe him. It's a matter
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of, well, what side what side of this high wire do I fall off on? Do I fall on the side that this guy's the legit or do
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I fall on the side of, well, this is just somebody calling in and looking to hear their voice on their on their
00:20:43
favorite radio show. There's a lot of things that he says along the way that really make me feel like there's there's
00:20:50
some truths here on this call. I don't know that I would ever fully believe 100% that this guy would of the things
00:21:00
that he's saying and I want to make sure that I really kind of explain that thought. One, the thought being
00:21:09
that I don't know that I would fully 100% ever believe a serial killer in their statements or their stories
00:21:17
because we know that one very common theme that is shared by these individuals is they are known liars. And
00:21:25
they're known liars throughout the entirety of their their lives and their criminal careers if you want to call it
00:21:30
that. So, even if you were sitting down with somebody that you knew was legit, Ed Kemper
00:21:36
uh would be one that would come to mind. Somebody that is able to explain and articulate his crimes and some of his
00:21:44
very the devious type behaviors and things that he did throughout time. You know,
00:21:51
he's able to explain those to you and he's able to help you learn from him in ways, but I
00:21:59
also would suspect that I don't know that these guys possess the ability to be 100% truthful at any time.
00:22:07
And they tend to skew and mash the facts when it benefits them. You know, that's
00:22:15
kind of a a common theme with humanity in general, but they certainly do it more often than
00:22:24
most. One thing that is super interesting to me here is that another commonality amongst these types that
00:22:30
we've learned over the years is that they usually like to talk. They usually want to tell somebody some of the things
00:22:37
that they've done. It's almost a way of of bragging. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Normally when you're
00:22:43
hanging out with your buddies and somebody's telling a story and it's like you might have heard the story before
00:22:49
and a couple years later the story has changed a little bit. It's they embellish little parts. It makes the
00:22:55
story better. But I agree with you. I don't know how much you can trust if he is a serial killer,
00:23:03
how much you could trust him anyways. That fish I caught, Captain, was 17 in and it weighed over 2 and 1/2 lb. Yeah.
00:23:13
And then a year later, that same fish, man, that thing was like 22 in. So, 17 ft.
00:23:18
and 3.1 lb. And now it's not the biggest fish that I've ever caught, even though
00:23:24
it's grown since the time that I've caught it, it's now the second or third largest fish
00:23:30
that I've ever caught. So, yeah, I think I think those things happen. Now, in analyzing this call, one thing's a few
00:23:36
things that jump off the I was going to say jump off the page, but maybe jump out the earbuds are
00:23:43
first, he when asked his name, Clay, he comes up with the name relatively quickly. You know what I mean? Like it's
00:23:51
he's not fishing for a name to present. So, that to me that's interesting. And then the
00:23:57
number of victims, he says it very quick very matter-of-factly, "I've killed 12 women."
00:24:03
Well, a couple of things there, I think. One, and we've talked about this before, some
00:24:08
people have when they go into bars with their buddies, they have a alias that they like to use.
00:24:15
Or in this case, I wondered if this individual or maybe other serial killers when they would meet their victim, well,
00:24:25
normally it's like, "Nice to meet you. I'm the captain. What's your name?" So, they'd have that name maybe he's used
00:24:32
Clay in every single murder. That's what I wondered about as well because here's
00:24:38
the biggest problem for serial killers, and I you know, that's a really strange sentence to say and hear,
00:24:45
is that often when they do it on a long enough timeline, there will be one or two victims or survivors that get away.
00:24:54
And usually that is their undoing. That is the unraveling and and what will lead
00:25:00
to their apprehension. Now, we know that serial killers, just like any other industry in life,
00:25:07
kids playing Little League baseball, they study the guys playing Major League baseball and they try to learn from what
00:25:15
works and what from and from what doesn't work for the guys in the bigs so that maybe one day they can make it to
00:25:21
the bigs. So, some of these serial killers and some of the more organized ones at that will typically study
00:25:29
known serial offenders and known serial killers. And they want to know what worked for them and what didn't work for
00:25:36
them and they might try to employ some of those techniques that did work and strongly avoid some of the things that
00:25:44
didn't work or led to their eventual apprehension. Now, with Ted Bundy, one thing that he did, and I think this
00:25:52
shows the arrogance of Bundy, was I don't think he ever thought that any of these women were going to get away
00:25:58
from him. I don't think Bundy ever thought that they would survive Ted Bundy. Once he set his plan into place,
00:26:06
once he made that determination that you were his, he believed it was going to work in his
00:26:12
favor. Right. And so, we know from the time at the the Lake Sammamish and and before that,
00:26:19
the task force was actually referring to, and this is during the Washington state portion of the investigation
00:26:26
looking for the known serial killer. They knew they had a serial killer operating in the area. They didn't know
00:26:32
who it was. But during that portion of the Ted Bundy case, behind the scenes, the task force and
00:26:39
the people working that that case were actually referring to the investigation as the Ted murders. Yet, they had not
00:26:46
identified the person that was committing those murders. Why were they calling the investigation the Ted
00:26:51
murders or the series of murders the Ted murders because on more than one occasion there was a female that got
00:26:58
away or was approached and had some kind of conversation with Ted Bundy in which
00:27:03
he used his real name. You know, that's a common interaction when you first meet
00:27:08
somebody for the first time. Oh, what's your name? My name's Cindy. What's your name? My name is My name is Ted. It
00:27:13
worked for him for a while because a lot of the victims didn't get away. But when
00:27:16
they started looking for possible eyewitnesses and people that did get away they're like, wait a second. This This
00:27:23
person is calling himself Ted. And so they called it the Ted murders, but I don't know that any of the investigators
00:27:30
at the time believed that they thought that the guy would be dumb enough to use his real name. So I like the cut of your
00:27:36
jib here, Captain. I think you might be spot-on where Clay might be a name that he is using when he's picking up a sex
00:27:43
worker. Hey, what's your name, honey? Oh, my name's Clay. Well, what do you want? Uh
00:27:48
How much, you know, you got to negotiate price and and different different things, you know, where where
00:27:54
this is all going to go down. Those are all part of the negotiation process and I would imagine that an exchange of
00:28:01
names and probably both of them fictitious is going down during the course of that
00:28:07
conversation and maybe that's why he's able to to kind of throw out this name, Clay. Obviously, we wouldn't expect him
00:28:14
to be giving his real name or providing his real name to Howard Stern and saying
00:28:19
that he's killed 12 women and they've not figured out that it's me yet. And so maybe this is a name that he's
00:28:25
using to help get the eventual victim into his vehicle. If If your whole goal is to procure a victim and get a victim
00:28:35
or potential victim into your vehicle and we know that his vehicle was a part of his uh his murder
00:28:43
technique. You know, a part of of his scheme and what he was doing because he said, "Hey,
00:28:48
I've stopped for a while and part of the reason why I stopped is my vehicle broke
00:28:53
down. I didn't have, you know, I that that's his lab to work in. That's his That's his mobile lab to try to procure
00:29:00
a victim and then take them where he feels comfortable assaulting and killing them.
00:29:05
And without that vehicle, he's he's lost his playing field, so to speak. So, there has to be some kind of exchange
00:29:14
and you can't have a woman lean into the vehicle and say, "Hey, honey, what's your name?" And you go, "Mhm, I don't
00:29:20
want to tell you my name." Well, that might be off-putting to her and she might not be wanting to get into your
00:29:24
vehicle after that exchange. So, maybe this is a name that he is using during the interaction with these
00:29:32
victims. The number 12 is interesting, too, when he's asked, you know, he says, "I don't know if I can't
00:29:39
remember from the call if Howard asked him how many people he's killed or if he just offers it up." But, the number of
00:29:45
12 seems to come out real quick. Right. Like, he doesn't have to to think about it so much and, you know, the
00:29:53
detectives will often say, "If something is true and something is factual, you don't have to remember it."
00:30:00
Right. You know, you don't have to spend a lot of time trying to remember it. You know
00:30:04
it. You know it to be true. So, that's kind of terrifying when he throws out the number 12 and does so rather
00:30:10
quickly. All right. Cheers to you. Cheers to the people in the back. Cheers to the people
00:30:43
in the front and happy holidays. Not so much to the people in the middle. Tall cans in the air.
00:30:49
You stink. Hey, we'll be able to cheers the people in the front and in the back live at a show at BrewDog February 19th,
00:30:59
2022. That's a Saturday for you people that like to get down on a Saturday. Uh tickets are available. We are doing
00:31:08
the show at BrewDog. We are excited to be partnering with BrewDog for this. This is
00:31:13
BrewDog in itself is a destination place. It's a it's a place that you want to go and
00:31:20
check out have if you have not before. So Let me just tell you it's one of the most beautiful places in the world.
00:31:26
That's right. And we're hoping to class up the joint a little bit ourselves Stink it up. on February 19th. Now, some
00:31:34
people have asked us, "Is this a live show? Will you be doing what you do here in the garage?" And the answer is, well,
00:31:40
kind of. Um what we'll be doing mainly is a beer tasting and we'll be doing a Q&A. We will not be featuring a a
00:31:47
full-length case like we would here uh for your earballs on the weekly. But join us for a wonderful beer tasting.
00:31:55
The beers included in your price of the ticket. So you don't have to pay anything extra for beer once you get
00:32:00
there. And we'll do a we'll do a wonderful Q&A. We'll have some merchandise on hand.
00:32:06
on that, when we're doing the beer tasting, everybody will have the beer samples like we have. Exactly.
00:32:13
It's not like all you can drink beer with a It's an interactive beer tasting with
00:32:18
Nick and the Captain. And tickets are available on our website at truecrimegarage.com. So we hope to see
00:32:25
each and every one of you there. Yeah, and right afterwards we'll be hanging out at the bar doing a meet and
00:32:31
greet. So that's all included in the price. But back to this call. One of the things
00:32:36
that I thought was interesting about this Clay guy is why I kind of find it humorous that he
00:32:43
almost seemed annoyed. Ed. No. I never said Ed. Right. I'm Clay. So, you could kind of almost see his
00:32:51
temperament a little bit. Yeah, so you have that weird interaction there where Howard asks, "Is this Ed?" And he says,
00:32:58
"No." And Howard sounds bummed out and I think that's because it's not uncommon for your You know, they're screening
00:33:05
these calls behind the scenes before the any of them make it onto the radio. So,
00:33:10
it's not uncommon, especially on a show like Howard Stern, where you have hundreds of people trying to call in all
00:33:16
at the same time, where they're screening calls and they're in Howard's one ear. We can't hear it, but they're
00:33:22
saying, "Hey, we got this guy uh Ed. He claims to be a serial killer. He's online six." You know, and then Howard
00:33:30
picks up, "Is this Ed?" No, it's not Ed. Oh, he sounds bummed out because he thinks, "Well, the
00:33:36
the wires got crossed and and now he's got some guy that he doesn't know if it's going to be an interesting call or
00:33:42
not." But very quickly, yeah, the the the caller straightens out the situation by saying, "No, I
00:33:49
Yes, I've killed women, but I never said my name was Ed." thing I thought was kind of humorous is
00:33:55
he doesn't understand that he's talking to Howard. So, that one that makes me think, is he
00:34:01
much of a Howard listener? Because Howard's voice is very distinct. And so then he he's almost I I don't know.
00:34:11
30 seconds to a minute, maybe longer. I'd have to actually look. Where he's like, "Wait, is this Howard?"
00:34:18
And he's like, "Yeah, this is Howard. Who do you think it was?" And then you can hear his breathing almost change.
00:34:23
Like he becomes nervous. And so, that makes me believe, "Okay, well, why would you get nervous that you're actually
00:34:30
talking to Howard?" Would you be nervous because now you feel like you're on the
00:34:33
air? Or if you were a big fan of Howard, then maybe you would, you know, get nervous.
00:34:38
At the last meet up I did, this girl came up to me and we're taking a picture and she was like, "I'm shaking and I
00:34:44
don't know why I'm shaking." I'm like, "Yeah, either do I." So, um so I thought it was
00:34:50
kind of humorous that he he gets mad about the mistaking of the name and then gets nervous once he figures out it's
00:34:58
Howard. Well, sometimes adrenaline kicks in and it's not really up to us when it
00:35:02
does kick in. I think it comes from that part of the brain that doesn't ask for permission. It just decides, boom, here
00:35:07
you go. Now you're like, "Oh crap, I'm shaking." And I if if I had a a choice in the matter, I would choose not to be
00:35:14
shaking. But you're right, and this is one thing that that always surprises me. Yes, one, the caller not recognizing
00:35:22
Howard's voice. Two, they are on the call with Howard and Robin at the same time and he doesn't he seems
00:35:32
to fail to recognize that, but this is in in the defense of the guy claiming to be
00:35:38
a serial killer, uh this is something that I've witnessed dozens and dozens of times on the Howard
00:35:44
Stern Show where somebody somebody's talking for a couple minutes and then they're shocked that they're actually
00:35:50
talking to Howard. I don't know, again, they're screening the calls and I don't know if the person screening the calls
00:35:56
ever tells the caller, "Hey, hold for Howard." or "Okay, you're on next." I think they just take down some
00:36:02
information, tell them they're putting them back on hold, and if Howard picks up, he picks up because
00:36:07
the guy screening the calls or the woman screening the calls can never guarantee
00:36:11
that Howard's going to actually pick up on on any of these people. So, but you're right, there's a change
00:36:18
in his in his speech and in his breathing and it could be from both of those factors that you pointed out.
00:36:25
Maybe maybe kind of a double whammy of oh crap, I am on air, I am live, a little bit of stage fright, and oh, I I
00:36:33
am talking to Howard, and now I'm nervous. The other thing you have to wonder, too, is
00:36:39
this guy doesn't He's not calling in because he wants to get caught. There's other people he could call if he wanted
00:36:44
to turn himself in or to get caught. Yeah. If he is who he says he is, he's calling in to brag about what he's done,
00:36:51
receive some of that fame and notoriety that he is seeking. These are his own words. He
00:36:57
said, "Originally, I think that I got into it because I wanted to be famous or be or be known as a serial killer. And
00:37:05
now I'm coming to realize that I think that I do it, it being killing women, for a sense of power and control." And
00:37:14
so he's not calling in with the idea of oh, I want to give up every detail and every bit of information about myself so
00:37:22
you can catch me. So part of me wonders, too, is there is an added factor to that
00:37:26
nervousness that he's going, "Oh, wait a second. Have I already said too much? I wasn't aware that we would be on the
00:37:32
air." Right. Well, in the last 5 years we've lived a strange life. We're going on a
00:37:38
strange journey because we talk about these cases. Sometimes we bring up individuals and those individuals might
00:37:45
be suspects in a case that we brought up and they make contact with the show and
00:37:50
sometimes it's not even to clear up their name. Maybe they just want to have a discussion with us.
00:37:56
And obviously they're having a discussion with us to clear up their name, but they
00:38:01
they might they might not be upset about how it was reported because for years they've been a part of
00:38:08
the case's story. Mhm. And so every time somebody has reached out to me, I I I always feel like the
00:38:15
obligation one, because we spoke about them, and they have thoughts and opinions on the
00:38:23
case and since they're close to the case, I always feel obligated to to give them the time to
00:38:31
talk with them. But they're also intriguing conversations because there's a part of you that goes this person is a
00:38:37
suspect, maybe not my favorite suspect in the case or or somebody that I lean too heavily in favor of being
00:38:46
the actual murderer or whoever's responsible for the crime. But in those conversations, there's a
00:38:53
part of you that's like, well, maybe they'll slip up. Maybe they'll be talking to me about the
00:38:59
case and just go, you know what? This is just too much and oh, by the way, I did
00:39:03
it. So, I think that's probably playing through Howard's mind. Well, it's interesting that this
00:39:11
guy calls and he's going to tell me all these details. Maybe through the act of talking about the
00:39:20
crimes, I could get him to just And I don't think he leans on that too heavy. Mhm. But I think he definitely I
00:39:29
I at one point he even says, you know, I I have to ask. Because how how how crazy
00:39:34
would of that call turned into if he basically said, oh yeah, okay, well, yeah, this feels good to be
00:39:42
talking about and almost confessing to somebody. And if he was telling Howard the truth
00:39:49
that you're the only person I ever told, there is a chance that that individual then goes, well, this feels good to get
00:39:56
off my chest. Oh, by the way, my real name is the captain. Yeah, well, it's again, it it might be
00:40:06
one of those situations where if this is in fact real, if he is who he says he is, well, then he's calling in because
00:40:14
he's wanted some fame and notoriety for his acts, but he can't he can't just run
00:40:20
out into the streets and say, "I'm the guy you're looking for. I'm the guy that's responsible for all the news
00:40:25
that's hitting the papers and the bodies that they're finding on the side of the
00:40:28
road." And because if so, he's going to they're going to shut him down. He's going to be locked up and he's going to
00:40:35
be forced to stop doing what it is that he seems to like and enjoy doing. And that's taking the
00:40:43
lives of of these women. 12 specifically is what he says, and of course there's a
00:40:48
lot of other crimes and horrible things that go on leading up to the murders themselves.
00:40:55
And that's probably all of a all of it for him, too. A driving factor for him as well.
00:41:02
This is from a book that we've been talking about a little bit here in the garage as of late called a killer by
00:41:08
design, and this is by the great Ann Burgess. And one thing that she's talking about in throughout this book is
00:41:15
how much these types usually, and we got to we got to make sure we we say that correctly. Usually like to talk and like
00:41:24
to explain what it is that they are guilty of. She's talking about a case where this is
00:41:31
the ski mask rapist. And after he was caught, she goes on to say his desire to take ownership of his crimes and his
00:41:39
habit of bragging about what he had done as a way of defining who he is. His desire to impress others by violent
00:41:48
means was deeply disturbing, of course, but it also came with an upside for our criminal personality study as a whole.
00:41:55
Simonis, that's the the man identified as the ski mask killer, or sorry, ski mask rapist. Simonis wanted to talk.
00:42:04
He wanted others to step inside his head so he could relive his most violent episodes and share them with an
00:42:11
audience, forcing others to witness the rawness of the details was a fundamental
00:42:16
part of how his mind worked. And so, that kind of backs up a lot of the idea, well, if this guy is in fact who he says
00:42:26
he is, why would he go out of his way if he doesn't want to get caught to go on I mean, 1997, this is almost national
00:42:36
radio. I mean, by this point Howard Stern is still on terrestrial radio, but it's
00:42:42
he's syndicated throughout the country and in many different states, especially in some of the major cities.
00:42:49
And so, why would he want to risk right? Because that's what he's doing. He's If he is who he says he is, his
00:42:56
risk of getting caught, that number just went really way up because of this action. It's risky
00:43:04
behavior to call in and announce to Howard and and anybody that's listening who you are and what you've been up to.
00:43:12
And Well, and I also don't think he's sitting there being that calculated on the information he's giving.
00:43:20
There he's It's not like he's has There's hesitation or that he's There's these long pauses
00:43:26
before he starts answering stuff. Some of the stuff is coming out of his mouth real quickly.
00:43:32
And that's what's disturbing to me because that's where I lean on the side that this guy's telling the truth.
00:43:37
Because he's he's not struggling to come up with an answer because he's He doesn't know what the questions are
00:43:42
going to be before he calls in. So, it's not like he can script all of his answers. He does a a pretty good job,
00:43:48
too, of not giving a great physical description of himself even though you can tell at times Howard is kind of
00:43:54
trying to bait him a little bit. You said bait. And maybe get some information from him.
00:43:59
So, but this is what You said it's what, about a 10-minute phone call? Yeah. So, over the course of a 10-minute
00:44:05
conversation that we listen into really the only physical description that he offers up about himself is that he's a
00:44:13
white male with no tattoos. Even so much so that when Howard says like, "Oh, well, you must be like a big
00:44:19
powerful big strong person." And what a slick answer that Clay offers up. He says, "Well, I wasn't back then."
00:44:27
Well, that that's not even a real answer. That's not a yes, I am a big strong huge person or I'm a meek little
00:44:33
individual. That's uh an extremely vague answer of, "Well, I wasn't back then." Right. Meaning he could still be
00:44:42
not big. Exactly. And again, define what is big. It's not really defined when he's asked
00:44:49
to give an answer. So, he really offers up no physical description of himself other than to say he has no tattoos. No
00:44:56
tattoos is a direct reply to Howard on a specific question that is thrown out there and that he's a
00:45:03
a white male. I did the same thing with this call that I did with the Brandon Lawson 911 tape. Listen to it one time.
00:45:13
Okay. Listen to it again. And then immediately it was like, "Okay, let me get a pad of paper
00:45:20
and start dissecting it." I mean, it it felt like the same feeling. And like I said, you see that he's
00:45:27
perturbed cuz you call him Ed, doesn't understand that it's Howard, find that interesting right away.
00:45:34
And also he mentions two at least two comic book references. He talks about, "Well, I saw this thing in a comic book
00:45:41
where the killer was painting with the victim's thumbs." And then he he said something like, "Well, I don't want to
00:45:47
turn myself in because I'd miss the next Batman movie." Mhm. So, two comic book references. And then also like you said,
00:45:56
where he goes, "Oh, well, no, no, I'm a white male. You you any tattoos? No, I wouldn't do
00:46:02
that to myself. Even though that the answer came out so quickly, it could be Look, when you have a lot of
00:46:10
tattoos, people will ask about them. And somebody sometimes you'll hear the reply, "Yeah, I I'm too scared to do
00:46:20
that or I don't know what I'd put on myself or I wouldn't do that to myself." So, it could be just a ruse. "Oh, yeah,
00:46:28
do you have any tattoos? Nah, don't have any tattoos. I wouldn't do that to myself."
00:46:33
And and kind of a joking answer to himself. Well, one thing that I find really interesting is his where he does
00:46:41
struggle to give an answer is when he's asked if he does drugs. And he he hesitates on his answer and he
00:46:49
throws something out there like, "Well, I did acid when I was a teenager." Something like he gives some answer
00:46:55
that's not really a direct answer to the question that that was just delivered by
00:47:00
Stern. And one thing to me that that I really I really focused in on that because
00:47:07
when we talk about offering up no real description of himself, well, if he says, "Yes, I'm a drug user." or or goes
00:47:15
into specifics about the types of drugs that he uses, well, these guys that kill
00:47:23
five, six, seven, 10, 12 people, they usually have other crimes that they've committed throughout the course of their
00:47:30
lifetime. And so, that creates a police record. The police have a record of those convictions.
00:47:37
He's on file. And so, he doesn't want to offer up That would be one thing that he really
00:47:42
wouldn't want to offer up besides a physical description of himself because he could be he could be in a database
00:47:49
somewhere. You know, I I need somebody that I know has been in the area for this period of a from this year to to
00:47:56
the current year. Remember this was November of 1997 of the phone call. I need somebody that has has previous drug
00:48:03
convictions. We know that he had a driver's license at one point because he says his car broke down and that was a
00:48:09
factor in why he he briefly stopped killing for a while. So there's some things that you can start to piece
00:48:16
together if you really wanted to track this down. Now, he he says he's calling from the New
00:48:21
Orleans area. One thing that would have been really interesting to know, and that this is a call as startling as
00:48:30
it is, Captain, this is a call that's not referenced on the show. I I I don't know that it's ever been
00:48:36
referenced again on on the show. One that I could find, but I I'm a regular listener. I don't listen to every single
00:48:42
day or every single minute of the show, obviously, but uh Well, the information I found about this call is
00:48:49
supposedly the call happened and they've never discussed it ever since. They didn't even supposedly discuss it on the
00:48:56
next segment. Hey, remember that guy that just called us? What do you think? It's almost like they had the
00:49:02
conversation and they just moved on. And and look, for all we know, law enforcement was listening. Maybe
00:49:10
they even got contacted by law enforcement. You know, hey, do you have uh screeners? Can you tell us what
00:49:16
number this guy's calling from? And maybe they were told legally just not to talk about it.
00:49:22
Mhm. Well, and that's one thing I wondered like and it was never mentioned, was it
00:49:27
in fact a New Orleans area code? I would have loved if if Gary would have chimed
00:49:33
in or whoever was screening the calls would have chimed in to let us know that at least the guy's calling from the area
00:49:39
that he says he's calling from. Well, I actually believe that's correct because when he says
00:49:44
Howard is the one that says New Orleans. Oh. And and and you can tell that he's a
00:49:50
little startled by the fact that they know that. Yeah, he's a little off-put that that's
00:49:54
thrown out there right away. Yeah, and I and I have always found that to be a little suspicious where he's going he's
00:50:02
talking and they're like, "Okay, yeah, you're calling from New Orleans." And he's like, "Yeah." It's almost like he
00:50:07
knows that might have been information that Clay didn't want to give out. Well, and we can say this that there was
00:50:15
an active serial killer in New Orleans in the early '90s. And the one of the more extensive
00:50:25
articles and information that I could find out there says that it could be up to 26 victims. And this would be through
00:50:33
the course of looks like 1991 to about 1996. Now, the only the only thing that I throw in there
00:50:45
in regard to this call is that the last victim that they have listed here, the 26th victim, was found
00:50:52
in April of 1996. And Clay says that he he says that he hasn't killed in almost a year. And this
00:51:01
call's taking place in November of 1997. Now, let's circle back around to something else though. When he is
00:51:10
talking about how he killed some of his victims, he says a a hammer is one of them, strangulation was was at least one
00:51:19
of them. And I believe he says that most of the victims he killed with a hammer and he
00:51:23
strangled one of them. And he also says something about the strangled victim saying, "Well, that's
00:51:30
probably one of the ones that they found." So, just because we don't have any victims found
00:51:39
after April of 1996 or or information pointing us in that direction, doesn't mean that the call's not legit, right?
00:51:46
It doesn't mean that the call isn't legit because maybe they just haven't found his more recent victim or victims.
00:51:53
Well, like you said, he hesitates on when he says, you know, are you on drugs? And he hesitates, and I wonder if
00:51:59
that's he then follows up saying, you know, well, you know, maybe I'd be drinking when I'd
00:52:06
commit these crimes. You wonder what how much is this guy drinking? And then is he drinking and
00:52:13
then once he has enough beers that he's also doing some other drug? And is it possible that he just doesn't remember
00:52:21
some of the murders? Yeah, that's certainly a a possibility here. Um I would I would guess that the the
00:52:29
individual might not be so sloppy drunk that I mean, if if he if what he's saying is true, he's been able
00:52:37
to pull this off 12 times without getting caught. Yeah. And he he seems to believe that he's so far off their radar
00:52:45
that he can call into a uh a national radio show and tell tell everybody what he's been up to. Yeah, I
00:52:51
thought that too, but um with the drinking thing, you know, yes, cuz I I would I would assume that
00:52:59
these killers would have this urge. The urge is growing. Now they know that uh I I have to start planning. I think
00:53:07
they start working out this this puzzle in their in their brain, but I'd also think that individuals that had these
00:53:17
urges, if they were an avid drinker, that once they got enough booze into their system,
00:53:25
that maybe they wouldn't be able to control their their um impulses. Well, yeah, I mean, often times they
00:53:32
will they will do something to loosen themselves up to build up the courage to cuz a lot of times these are fantasies
00:53:39
that these individuals have and they've kept it their entire lives, and they want to act
00:53:44
out these fantasies. They have just never had the the guts to do it. Yeah. And as as dumb
00:53:50
and sick as that sounds, that's that's the truth. They've they've never been able to build up the confidence or the
00:53:56
bravery or whatever you want to call it to to act on these fantasies. Now, one thing that I found interesting though,
00:54:04
too, is he doesn't shy away from the fact that one of his 12 victims was a a cross-dresser.
00:54:11
That, you know, he come to discover later during the attack or what have you, Right.
00:54:17
he learns that what he thought was a female victim is now a male victim. And the thing that's interesting to me
00:54:26
about that, Captain, is in this the list that I was able to find of the 26 victims from 1991 to 1996
00:54:35
in I'm sorry, 1990 yeah, April 1996 in and around the New Orleans area. And unfortunately, they, with very broad
00:54:45
strokes, they paint the the a picture here in the title of what the list is, saying that
00:54:52
these these 26 individuals were all uh you know, sex workers or prostitutes. And I don't think I've seen some
00:55:01
information come out from family members of some of the the persons that have been identified that are on this list
00:55:09
saying, you know, they weren't a sex worker. They're being lumped in in this group. But what have you, what we know
00:55:17
here is that I don't think that it's the same perpetrator that carried out all 26
00:55:21
of these murders. I I don't believe that at all. I believe we're probably looking
00:55:25
at three, maybe four, possibly more because a couple of these could be just one-offs where where
00:55:33
somebody killed just one person, and they've never killed anybody else ever again, and it just happened to take
00:55:38
place during this same time period, and so they're getting kind of lumped all together here.
00:55:43
Uh, but within this list of 26, there are two men that are listed. And they're thrown into that category.
00:55:51
Again, it's a very broad brush saying uh that these were these were sex workers in the area, and they were they were
00:55:59
found. So, oh, I apologize. Three males, because we have two that have been identified
00:56:07
and one that is is listed as a John Doe. So, again, this is a weird piece of information that
00:56:16
somebody in the area may not know. And what I mean is somebody that's calling into fake it may not know that,
00:56:23
that that they've tied some of these male victims in with these female victims, and they believe that they're connected,
00:56:30
at least enough to fall on the same list. Right. And I found that interesting. Now,
00:56:36
around this same time, for my understanding though, two captain, it was well known that there was a serial
00:56:42
killer in the area and or multiple individuals that were killing, you know, similar women,
00:56:51
uh similar being ages or profession, uh drug users, things of that nature in this time period. In fact, so much so
00:56:59
that there was a I want to make sure I I have the exact term and knowledge of what they were
00:57:05
calling it back then. Uh, I won't give out the the phone number because I don't know if it would
00:57:11
ring to anybody, and if it did, it who knows where the phone call would go, because this is a task force that was in
00:57:16
operation in the late '90s. So, they had a serial murder task force is what they
00:57:22
were calling it that was investigating those 26 homicides that fell onto this list. So, there would would been some
00:57:30
general public awareness that this was going on. One, that these murders were happening, and two, so much so that law
00:57:37
enforcement has deemed this or some of these murders at least to be the work of a serial
00:57:42
killer. And they are treating it as such, so much so that they've formed a task force to investigate these cases.
00:57:49
Well, when I told a couple of my friends, "Hey, I think we're going to try to dissect this call." and
00:57:55
I'm I'm interested to hear Nick's thoughts on this. They they would go, "Oh, yeah, I'm I'm interested to
00:58:01
hear his thoughts, too." Like Like who cares about your thoughts, Captain? Well, there's a couple of interesting
00:58:08
names that are loosely tied to this story, maybe a little more strongly tied to this story depending on who you ask,
00:58:15
but those names would be Victor Grant and Russell Elwood. So, many people believe that Russell
00:58:22
Elwood is in fact the guy calling himself Clay, Clay the serial killer that calls into the Howard Stern Show
00:58:29
confessing to killing 12 women. But Victor Gant is the other individual that's referenced in
00:58:36
relation to this story as well. And he's really interesting, too, because it kind
00:58:42
of falls back on something that Clay is talking about during the phone call. Victor Gant is a former law enforcement
00:58:50
officer who was tied to two, possibly more, of the slayings on that list of 26 that that I keep referencing.
00:59:02
So, he did have, as Clay says in the call, uh direct relationship with one or two of the victims. Well, like you said,
00:59:13
anything in this call could have been a lie. It could have be a ruse to throw people off the scent. And I'm trying to
00:59:21
look here on the fly, Captain, to figure out if Victor Gant was ever prosecuted or convicted of any of these these
00:59:30
killings here, but it doesn't look like and this is not the most updated information, but the the
00:59:38
most recent stuff I can find on this individual is that number of victims, they put it at anywhere from zero to 27.
00:59:46
So, he may not have been convicted of any of these actual killings, but it does specify on some different
00:59:54
websites that he is suspected of having killed two or more of the women that are on
01:00:01
this list. The interesting thing about Victor Gant as well when it comes to this list of
01:00:08
of homicides here is that he seems to match some kind of physical description that was being
01:00:16
tossed around in relation to some of these earlier murders that were taking place in and around the New Orleans area
01:00:23
in 1992. So, the suspect sketch then at that time depicted a large, muscular African-American man in his 30s and Gant
01:00:35
matched that physical that be it vague, but he matches that physical description.
01:00:43
So, who's this Russell Elwood? He is the individual that many believe is Clay the
01:00:49
serial killer who called into the Howard Stern Show. He did go on trial in 1998 for two
01:00:56
murders that took place in 1993. This was the murders of Cheryl Lewis and Dolores Mack. He was found in
01:01:05
The way that he was apprehended, okay? From my understanding, this dude worked as a cab driver for
01:01:13
for quite some time. I don't know if it was the full length or extent of when the killings were going on
01:01:21
or if it was just for a a more brief period of time during the course of those killings. But, a couple of key
01:01:27
things to know about Elwood is one, he was not from the New Orleans area. He moved there after living here in Ohio
01:01:35
for quite some time. And there's some information out there to suggest that he was in Ohio for
01:01:43
portions of these killings. That he may not have even been in the area when some of these women were were
01:01:50
abducted and killed. The way that he lands on the police radar is one, taxi cab drivers
01:01:58
are not uncommonly listed as suspects in these types of cases, especially when we're talking
01:02:04
about sex workers. So, his his job sort sort of fits what you're looking for because everybody willingly gets into a
01:02:12
taxi cab, and so it's easy to come up with victims. But, they arrest him they find him
01:02:20
Police see his vehicle in the middle of the night out in an area where they've recovered at least two bodies by this
01:02:27
point. And they find him there sitting alone in his car and they question him, you know, just
01:02:33
the basic question of, "Well, sir, why are you here?" While police knowing, "Hey, we've recovered bodies in this
01:02:38
area and it wouldn't be uncommon for a serial killer to return to the area or maybe he's here because he's getting
01:02:44
ready to dump another victim that he has in the trunk of his car. Yeah, that makes sense.
01:02:49
He claims first of all, he's not fully dressed, which I I wish they would offer up more detail on that because if it's
01:02:55
90° out and he's just not wearing a shirt, that doesn't seem extremely suspicious to me.
01:03:01
Uh but, they say in the report that he's not not fully dressed. Flippity flippity.
01:03:05
And that he claims that he's in this area because he's going to change the oil in the vehicle and change the brake
01:03:12
pads on the vehicle. And he wanted to be out there because he could dump the used
01:03:19
oil out in this area and you know, without anybody having concern about it. You know,
01:03:25
you're supposed to properly dispose of used oil and he wanted to just dump it on the side of the road. Well, police
01:03:32
are extra suspicious because then they search his vehicle. I guess they're hoping to either find drugs or maybe a
01:03:39
victim that they can save. Uh you know, they got a lot of suspicions when they're approaching his vehicle.
01:03:46
They don't find anything of that nature, but what they also don't find is brake pads or
01:03:51
oil or tools to do any of the work that he claims he's going to do. Again, he's out near a field in pitch black area. He
01:04:00
doesn't have any uh lighting to assist him in in doing any of this work. So, they know they've caught him in in a
01:04:07
lie. Got him. Now they need to know not only why are you here, but two, why are you
01:04:13
in this area and then lying about why you would be here. So, he looks extremely suspicious, but again, we have
01:04:19
to we have to note here that he is it's proven that during the course of some of these murders, when some of
01:04:25
these murders took place, he was not in New Orleans. He was not in the state of Louisiana. Well, like you said though,
01:04:32
there's probably multiple killers responsible for the the sum total of the what do you say, 27? Yeah, 20 26 is the
01:04:41
list that I have and eventually Elwood was charged and I believe convicted in both of the two
01:04:48
that he was charged with. I say that with a little hesitation, Captain, because I know that there's been some
01:04:53
question marks on one of those two homicides over the years that there's been some information coming forward
01:04:59
that he he may not have been in the area for both of those murders. It looks to me like this this Russell Elwood is good
01:05:06
for for several of these. He also claimed to I know we don't like jailhouse snitches.
01:05:13
The people that he was locked up with, Elwood would fit good with Clay, too, because he had multiple drug convictions
01:05:20
in multiple states before he was ever charged with any of these murders. So, that would make sense
01:05:27
to me, too, if that he wants to kind of shy away from that in the in the portion
01:05:31
of questioning on the Stern Show. But, when he was locked up in jail in in Florida
01:05:38
facing some kind of charges there, these weren't murder charges. We had inmates telling
01:05:45
law enforcement that this is what this dude told us he was up to. And apparently,
01:05:51
if we are to believe these jailhouse snitches, what they're claiming is that Russell Elwood told them that his thing
01:05:58
was he liked to he liked to pick up a a street walker. He He would get them to do drugs, whatever
01:06:06
their drug of choice was. I could be heroin, crack cocaine, what have you. But, he would get them to shoot up. He
01:06:14
wanted them to overdose in his in his presence. And sometimes I think he's having sex with them while
01:06:21
they're overdosing. And then he has to uh if they don't completely overdose, then he has to kill them by other means
01:06:29
after the fact. And that he just kind of left his victims on the side of the road
01:06:35
because he had no real attachment to them. There was no nothing connecting him connecting victim to perpetrator in
01:06:42
those cases. So, he didn't feel compelled to conceal the bodies or go to any great lengths or efforts to kind of
01:06:49
conceal the bodies. Now, that doesn't really fall in line with what Clay tells Howard on the phone because Clay
01:06:59
says that most of them he killed with a hammer and one of them he strangled. Where the jailhouse snitches are telling
01:07:04
us that oh, well, Elwood would like to make them overdose having sex with them while they're overdosing and with some
01:07:13
of them he I think one of the victims he she didn't die. So he drowned her. One of them I believe he claimed that he
01:07:22
that he strangled her, but at no point in any of those in any of that information could I find the use of a
01:07:28
hammer, which seems to be what Clay is saying that he's done with with most of the victims. I could see his voice
01:07:34
matching his picture. Well, what I think is probably most likely in this situation.
01:07:41
Again, when we talk about this list of 26 victims here, uh we probably have a situation where we
01:07:48
have multiple multiple perpetrators. Victor Gance probably responsible for a couple, maybe two to four of these.
01:07:56
Russell Elwood's probably responsible for a handful of these murders as well. And this Clay individual who called in
01:08:03
could be who he says he is. And some of his victims could be on this list as well.
01:08:10
And it's just a a tricky a tricky situation here. Now, on the Stern Show, we do know that it's not uncommon for
01:08:19
them to have fake phone calls. Right. In fact, they have they employ people that call the Howard Stern Show
01:08:25
pretending to be legit callers. Somebody starts making prank phone calls to them
01:08:30
and they're so entertaining that they offer them jobs. Yeah, and so they would off they would
01:08:35
regularly have these fake calls. But one thing I want to say about that is that Howard typically will move on from those
01:08:43
calls relatively quickly. Like unless they're home run comedy smash hits, he moves on from those calls very
01:08:50
quickly. And a lot of times, especially in the last 10 15 years, he's also quick to point out well, not
01:08:58
quick to point out, but toward the the end of the phone call, he'll point out that it's somebody in
01:09:03
the back, you know, that it's one of their staff and they've they've come up with something because that might become
01:09:09
a character that you will regularly hear on the show going forward because it was
01:09:13
such a smash hit. Now, a long time listener here telling you I don't know of a situation where somebody claims to
01:09:21
be calling in with a serious matter, there's nothing more serious than discussing the taking of one's life.
01:09:28
I I can't recall knowing of a fake call to be saying something of that weight, of that gravity. So,
01:09:37
now, is it out of the realm of possibility? No. Because we know that he was was and is a
01:09:44
shock jock and who knows what lengths they would go to to shock the audience to grow the audience or keep the
01:09:50
audience. But, I have a feeling here that if this is a fake call, then Clay is the fake
01:09:58
is the is the fake here, not somebody calling in from the back, that this is not a manufactured call from somebody on
01:10:04
the Stern staff. Well, I also put a little weight to the fact that they've never discussed it afterwards. Like I
01:10:10
said, they could have been caught they could have been contacted by New Orleans police, maybe even a lawyer,
01:10:18
and and maybe that's one of the reasons why they've they've never discussed it afterwards. Or, on the flip side, they
01:10:25
realized it was a fake and that's why they've never brought it up again. Now, I would believe, Captain, that the BSU
01:10:33
from the FBI would tell Stern and the local serial murder task force that they had established there in New Orleans at
01:10:42
the time, "This guy talking is our best weapon. We want to keep him talking. So, let's have
01:10:48
him reach out. Let's give him a Let's put him on speed dial so he can reach out and communicate with Stern or
01:10:56
somebody on the local level because he seems to want to talk and he's going to be able to offer up some clues if in
01:11:03
fact he is who he says he is. And we've kind of been discussing this gearing up and getting ready for this
01:11:10
and I think we both uh have similar thoughts and opinions. No strong gut feeling either way. If I had to bet
01:11:21
I would say that Clay is an actual serial killer. I think that's because the devil's in the details and how
01:11:29
quickly he comes up with those details. And also I find it interesting on how many
01:11:37
times that he corrects Howard. And so when he says like, "Oh well, I I originally wrote some notes and tried to
01:11:45
put out some clues and and and wanted to get some press and and then when Howard like
01:11:52
contradicts him on that he he repeats, "Oh no, no, I originally wanted that. I originally wanted fame."
01:11:59
I think if you're if he was lying to Howard about that and then Howard went in a different direction
01:12:06
you wouldn't maybe maybe you wouldn't double down but maybe you'd just move on and just let let him be incorrect.
01:12:13
Again, the other reason why I would lean towards or if I had to bet that he is telling the truth
01:12:20
is when they state New Orleans and how shocked he seems. And almost where I'm not even going to
01:12:27
deny that they must know somehow that I'm from New Orleans and so I have to give up that information. He doesn't
01:12:34
seem initially like he wanted to give that up. Where I question myself here, Captain, is
01:12:40
whether this caller is in fact who he says he is. I I think he's probably legit. If I had to if I had to just give
01:12:47
a simple answer that would be it, but a a longer less simple answer would be one I'm a little
01:12:54
shocked at how long he stayed on the phone. If he is who he says he is, because he
01:13:00
doesn't strike me to be dumb or ignorant to the fact that there's law enforcement
01:13:04
looking for him. So, I'm a little surprised at at how long he stays on the call itself. And I
01:13:11
also wouldn't be surprised if he's fluffed his numbers a little bit, where he says I've killed 12, but maybe he's
01:13:16
not killed that many people. Uh maybe he He still could be who he says he is and
01:13:22
not have killed 12 people. And like always, we want to hear your thoughts and opinions on the episode, so
01:13:39
go to truecrimegarage.com and make sure you leave a comment on the blog. Colonel, do we have any
01:13:45
recommended reading for this week? That's right. Thank you, Captain. And we want to thank everybody who has posted
01:13:50
questions and comments on the blog throughout this wonderful year. It's been a It's been a busy and exciting
01:13:56
blog at truecrimegarage.com. This week we have a great recommendation for your ear balls, a little recommended
01:14:02
listening. If you have not already, well, then make sure you go and check out the Missing Persons podcast by our
01:14:09
friends over at AbJack Entertainment. True Crime Garage and AbJack have been friends for years. Mike Morford, who
01:14:16
many of you will remember joined us on our Zodiac episodes, and I'll put the Colonel stamp on this. There is no
01:14:22
better person on this big blue marble to talk Zodiac with than Mike Morford. And
01:14:27
also a big player over at AbJack is one that has helped us out here at True Crime Garage for a long time, Jessica
01:14:33
Bettencourt. She has worked here behind the scenes for several years and she has
01:14:39
done some wonderful gangbusters work for us and for AbJack. We are recommending that everyone check out the Missing
01:14:45
Persons podcast because we paired up with them to feature one of our most recent cases titled Paige Coffee. Paige
01:14:54
has been missing from the greater Cleveland area since May of 2019. Her family, True Crime Garage, and the
01:15:00
Missing Persons podcast are asking for your help. We need to locate her. We need answers, and we are determined to
01:15:07
get justice for Paige and her family. True Crime Garage released the Paige Coffee episode last week on December
01:15:13
7th, and this past Saturday, the Missing Persons podcast released a Paige Coffee
01:15:19
episode as well. They are two very different shows, and I encourage everyone to listen to both, especially
01:15:26
if you live in Ohio or the surrounding states, because again, we need some help. Merry Christmas and happy holidays
01:15:32
to Jessica and Mike, and happy holidays to you all and everyone, and we will see
01:15:36
you back here in the garage next week. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.