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details welcome back to our studio where we have a special guest with us today Tuan Sam from Froot Loops Tuan Sam
00:00:38
welcome it's my pleasure to be here oh and um it's Fruit Loops just so you know uh fruit fruit yeah fruit no it's Fruit
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Loops the same way you say sto that's not how we say it fro Loops find the loopy
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[Music] [Applause] side [Music] welcome to True crab garage wherever you are whatever you doing thanks for
00:01:47
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who never returned his copy of Tropic of Cancer back to the
00:01:53
library here is the captain yes Mr Bookman I return that book Joy boy it's good to be seing and good to see you
00:02:02
thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are sipping on another
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delicious beer from the great Folks at tactical Brewing Company this is fog of hostility it's an imperial New England
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IPA it's dank it's piny and citrusy it's also 9% ABV so best to drink this one at
00:02:27
home in your garage garage grade how about 4 and a qu bottle caps now time for some praise and thank yous first up
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a cheers to the angry Italian in Rolo California and a big shout to Hannah in Lake Stevens Washington next we have a
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shout to the always kind and never littering Meg in Buffalo and a big we like your jib goes out to Chris and
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shyra in Toronto Canada here's the cheers to Noah and Laura and tulah Homa Tennessee and last but certainly not
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least we have Augustine and sha Jennifer in Chicagoland everyone we mentioned went to True Crime garage.com and they
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helped us out with this week's beer fund yeah b r you in beer run for beer run t-shirts check out our store Page we
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:33
[Music] crime on March 14th 2000 it's now been 1 month since 9-year-old Asia degree
00:03:56
disappeared on this day Asia's parents appear on The Montel Williams TV show the degree family along with Asia's
00:04:04
basketball coach his name is Chad Wilson they did interviews on The Montel Williams show that aired that day and we
00:04:14
also have America's Most Wanted and the Oprah Winfrey show that did segments on the case as well on March 22nd the
00:04:24
degree family put up a billboard at the spot where Jeff the r iwitness said that
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he saw Asia run into the woods that same day Sheriff Crawford stated that his Department was trying to rule out a
00:04:38
handful of unnamed suspects they contacted local sex offenders spoke to everyone who may have had contact with
00:04:47
Asia the FBI created a psychological profile of Asia's abductor which has never been released to the public I
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can't remember and I was scouring my not notes to try to find the exact date Captain but there was a statement from
00:05:05
the sheriff uh Sheriff Crawford at some point this would be within weeks of her disappearance saying that the the
00:05:13
parents were cleared as suspects or no longer considered to be suspects remember we had him stating within 12
00:05:22
hours or 24 hours of her going missing that we're looking for Clues and everyone's a suspect well at some point
00:05:29
at least on the record in that newspaper on that day he says the parents are no longer suspects right and just like you
00:05:36
talked about before we we have no dog sent or any real evidence other than eyewitnesses to back up the idea that
00:05:47
she left the house on her own now now how she did that I think that is debatable but but we know that at some
00:05:55
point we we have to trust these eyewitnesses because there's so many of them and their all their stories seem
00:06:04
very similar not only are the stories similar they're reporting these independently of one another which adds
00:06:09
to The credibility and then when you go to the areas where they're saying that they saw Asia we're finding Asia's
00:06:15
belongings right so I mean it's it's this happened I mean yeah confirmation of the eyewitness accounts right so what
00:06:24
that means is investigators believe that Asia left her residence of her own accord but of course why and for what is
00:06:34
really anyone's guess we mentioned yesterday that people have said she was upset about a basketball game I I I just
00:06:42
find that incredibly difficult to believe that the outcome of that basketball game
00:06:48
would would really I mean look it's cold and raining it's a thunderstorm as you pointed out yesterday people have said
00:06:56
that she was scared of the dark scared of dogs mhm she's nine that's the thing that we need to
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like Circle and underline a bazillion times even the national Center for missing and exploited children say that
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typically they rarely see anyone run away under the age of 12 so a basketball game I'm upset about
00:07:16
a basketball game but I'm scared of the dark and scared of dogs well scared of storms as well and that and that's
00:07:23
that's what I keep coming back to if one were to run away this is not the ideal time to do it it seems to me like if
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there was something going on at your home or you're upset about a basketball game or what have you you could pick a
00:07:39
different time to run away you could go well maybe I'll wait 24 more hours maybe
00:07:43
it won't be raining then yeah and we don't have anybody after the game other than the initial shock of her losing or
00:07:54
the initial emotions of her losing everybody says she bounc back she was fine during her brother's game she was
00:08:02
fine during a sleepover and one thing that we don't have that's not public information but law enforcement might be
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fully aware of this one thing we are not armed with is the knowledge of when that
00:08:15
backpack was packed up that could be fairly important and we got to keep in mind too law enforcement may know this
00:08:23
because they're not going into this blind she's a 99-year-old child her parents are very involved in
00:08:30
her life MH it's very easy to go to Mom and Dad especially within those first few hours these are the questions you're
00:08:36
asking we need to try to determine what she may have taken with her so Mom Dad tell us what what items of hers are
00:08:45
missing from her room and so that's how they come up with this is what she probably took with her
00:08:53
now based off of the items you believe that that she took with her that are missing from your home you you can then
00:08:59
put together a different type of timeline of when she potentially packed up that bag it's very easy for mom to
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say hey I wash that basketball uniform right after her game I do it every time so she must have packed it up afterwards
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or she didn't wear this to the slumber party you see where I'm going with this it you can determine these things and
00:09:19
law enforcement May in fact know that my suspicion here one thing that's been pointed out is that her fourth grade
00:09:25
class at Fon Elementary School they were're recently reading The Whipping Boy book which is a book that I remember
00:09:34
we read when I was a kid well when I was a kid in school uh this is by Sid fman the book centers around a story of
00:09:43
a prince and a common child who receives lashes on behalf of the prince so if the prince does something
00:09:51
bad it's the it's the common child that gets physically punished for this the two create this unlikely friendship and
00:10:01
they decide to run away together and they go off on some adventures and then they both return safely later so some
00:10:09
people pointed out maybe maybe this is a possibility maybe she's going off on some Adventure I I don't know I can I
00:10:17
feel confident about certain things in this case and what I can say is I feel confident that for her to have left in
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the middle of the night under those conditions weather conditions she's either a running away from
00:10:32
something or B running to something there was something that was uh of urgency that that required leaving that
00:10:42
night yeah I again disagree but we can argue till her bleue in the face on whether or not she was sleepwalking or
00:10:50
where she was heading to I just don't know what be so urgent or what kind of con somebody would have to um COA this
00:11:00
girl out that's Afraid of the Dark afraid of storms afraid of dogs 9 years old to leave her house in the middle of
00:11:06
the night without telling anybody in the summer of 2000 just a few months after she went missing there was a major tip
00:11:14
that came in for the case and this came out of the county jail in mecklinburg an inmate his name Baron
00:11:23
Ramsay started making collect calls to the Charlotte Observer and the Cleveland County Sheriff's Office insisting that
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he knew what happened to the girl he's 32 years old at the time of this event he says that he and another man were
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heading back to Shelby driving on nc18 in the early morning hours of February 14th this after buying drugs in Hickory
00:11:50
which would be 28 miles north of Fon 9.1 miles of that would be on this highway of nc18 he says that the other man was
00:12:03
driving a pickup truck and that they struck a girl as she was crossing the road he says that the girl was still
00:12:11
alive when the driver put her in the back of the pickup Ramsey says that the driver dropped him off at home and left
00:12:20
with the girl a few days later Ramsay said that the man returned to take him fishing on Moss lake near King Mountain
00:12:29
Ramsay says that he helped the man obviously he knows this man's name it's just not printed in the paper he helped
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the man dumped the now dead girl's body in the lake the king's Mountain area is about 19 mies southeast of Fon of asa's
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home uh Ramsay says he was reporting This months later because one his conscience was bothering him and two
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he's facing a long federal prison day and he was hoping for a deal Ramsay robbed a besser City Bank in April of
00:13:07
2000 so after the girl went missing investigators searched nc18 for car parts and found nothing they're looking
00:13:15
for evidence that there would have been a hit and run or some type of accident they were doing that the day that she
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went missing and the the day after they based off of his statements they dragged
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Moss Lake twice and even used an infrared underwater camera and dive teams but found nothing they found zero
00:13:38
yeah no evidence of Asia at all in October of 2000 they moved the inmate they move Baron Ramsey to the Cleveland
00:13:47
County jail because Ramsay tells them hey let's put me here we can arrange for a meeting with the driver of the pickup
00:13:56
that that hit the girl and had me help him him dispose of her body yeah we can have him come and meet me here okay so
00:14:04
they move him to this Cleveland County jail once he's there Ramsay along with other inmates they plan to escape but
00:14:12
somehow the guards figure out their plan and they stopped this Escape Plan yeah cuz they figured out they're dumb asses
00:14:21
so the authorities are left wondering look she's not where you said she was or not where you said we would find her was
00:14:29
this all just a lie so you could get to Cleveland County jail and try to make an
00:14:33
escape and if you can't make the Escape is this is this like a really good plan because then maybe you could throw this
00:14:40
other guy under the B bus and receive some type of deal from us whether we found her or not typical criminal the
00:14:47
authorities say that that they were suspicious of him from the get-go they were suspicious of him especially after
00:14:54
this Escape Plan was discovered and he failed several polygraph test in regards to the information that he provided to
00:15:02
surpr law enforcement so surpr it doesn't seem like there is there's anything really here in fact authorities
00:15:10
have been on the record stating that they do not believe Ramsay at all and they think he had nothing to do with why
00:15:18
she is still missing and her family has said the same thing too that they they just don't believe this Ramsey guy story
00:15:27
yeah but the the point of contact though makes a lot of sense to me because you hear about you know in the marur case or
00:15:37
a Brian schaer or something like that where oh well maybe they just got hit by a vehicle and then somebody had to
00:15:43
dispos of the body well what the what would be the motive well when the guy's telling you well we we had a bunch of
00:15:50
drugs and we're criminals anyways we got a bunch of drugs and now we got this girl that we hit I wouldn't believe that
00:15:56
you would find a bunch of evidence because cuz she's nine she's small how much damage is she going to do to that
00:16:05
vehicle so the story starts out as PL as plausible I believe plausible enough where the cops
00:16:14
said we got to see where this goes but like you said the story starts falling apart pretty quickly well yeah and if
00:16:21
you're going to hope to receive any type of deal at all or even if you're just trying to do some good it's the very
00:16:28
least maybe her body could be where you say it's going to be yeah uh that would be a good starting point we know that
00:16:35
not to be the case on August 5th of that same year she's now been missing for several months and Asia would have
00:16:43
celebrated her 10th birthday now February 14th 2001 gets us up to the one-year marker asa's now been missing
00:16:52
for one year their parents her parents have their 13th year wedding anniversary and they said to the papers you know
00:17:02
that's something we will no longer celebrate um of course we're still married still in love with one another
00:17:08
we just cannot celebrate anything on that day going forward August 3rd of that same year 2001 Terry Fleming he's
00:17:19
the owner of Precision Grading he's working on a construction project in neighboring Burke County he uncovered
00:17:28
asa's missing book bag and how does he know that it's hers well it has her name and telephone number and some reports
00:17:35
State her address as well written in the bag hey and how far away was this from where she went missing okay so the the
00:17:45
book bag was located more than 26 miles from her family's home so this would be North
00:17:54
this is in a different direction from where she was seen walking that morning the general description of it is this
00:18:01
captain that buried off of Highway 18 the book bag was found 18 months after Asia disappeared the book bag was
00:18:12
double wrapped in black plastic trash bags found more than 26 mil from her family's home in a different direction
00:18:19
from where she had been walking the book bag was found off of nc18 about 6 Mi south of Morganton which is almost 30 m
00:18:28
north of the intersection of nc18 and NC 180 remember that's where she was roughly seen last yeah it was found in a
00:18:37
spot about 50 yard off of the highway here's a full description of what was found in the bag although I would like
00:18:46
to throw out a buyer beware here as I don't think officially there was ever a full inventory of what was in the bag
00:18:56
that was released to the public but but online this was the most comprehensive list that I could find so I thought it
00:19:03
was worth mentioning so they say that asa's black book bag and black Tweety Bird purse were missing from her room
00:19:12
after she disappeared along with a pair of blue jeans with a red stripe black sneakers a long sleeved white shirt with
00:19:20
purple lettering a red vest with black trim black overalls with Tweety Bird on them and a long sleeve black and white
00:19:28
shirt also we have asa's house key that would have been in her book bag now of course investigators searched this area
00:19:39
for several days after this find I mean this is a major find in the investigation all they found in this
00:19:46
area Captain was they found some animal bones which one would expect to find they also found a pair of men's khaki
00:19:54
pants that were found Jake from State the khaki pants thing is super weird to me but the statement that they put out
00:20:01
at the time was that they didn't believe that the pants had any connection to asa's book bag or to asa's case yeah
00:20:10
right and I don't know how they were able to determine that if it's something that I mean you might be able to look at
00:20:15
something and determine that it's been there for well over 18 months called science um or maybe they have other
00:20:22
reasons to believe that now well you also you have this book bag that is put in two trash bags and
00:20:30
buried so why wouldn't they take the same precautions with the pants if they were connected that brings us to another
00:20:39
piece here in the case where you really got to you really got to sift through the details to have a a
00:20:47
full idea of what's going on here because when I get rid of a pair of pants I put them in two bags and I bury
00:20:53
them off off the freeway of course well so this guy that found them he he was working in the area he's the owner of
00:21:01
that that company this is an area that's been going through some changes and being
00:21:07
worked on for quite some time so a lot of people have questioned well why would anybody double
00:21:14
bag her book bag and then bury it some have even said that this is similar to a parent killing one's
00:21:24
child and then wrapping them up in a blanket and in placing them somewhere like some form of
00:21:33
preservation and no I think it's to possibly uh Guard from scent dogs or something well the other thing too is
00:21:42
people say well if if someone killed her why would they bother bagging double bagging this item before burying it was
00:21:54
it so that they could retrieve it at another time to preserve it as some kind of trophy or to not get caught um I
00:22:01
think what I go to is the the sheriff's statements at the time and I found this to be very interesting because the story
00:22:08
that's lived on for 20 years is that the bags were found buried 50 yards off of the the side of the
00:22:15
highway the sheriff at the time said that because the the the land had been worked and worked over several times he
00:22:24
had evidence to believe that the bag that someone discarded this that the item was double bagged and simply thrown
00:22:33
out of a moving vehicle at some point and then it became buried over time because they were
00:22:40
working the landh so that puts a whole different spin on things and makes a lot more
00:22:47
sense when you think about it rather than someone killing a child double bagging this thing and burying it you
00:22:54
the placing the item in trash bag seems to defeat the purpose of burying it right uh but you do point out a good
00:23:02
thing of the idea that maybe you're trying to hide the scent or any type of scent that might might come from that
00:23:08
but you're you're 26 miles away from the area in question well and the double bagging and throwing out the window can
00:23:16
make sense I would say if if you're double bagging it maybe somebody's just less likely willing to try to rip open
00:23:26
two bags to see what's in it they could just assume that it's trash and discard of it on the side of the road yeah I
00:23:33
think the placing it in a trash bag one serves the purpose of concealing it until you have the opportunity to get
00:23:40
rid of it mhm and then it conceals it further even after you've discarded it people see
00:23:48
unfortunately uh we live in a world where people throw [ __ ] out their Windows ass hats and it sits on the side
00:23:54
of the highway filthy animals and so if you if you were to see a book bag well that might draw
00:24:00
someone's attention much much more than it would if someone saw a common black trash
00:24:07
bag now investigators with this finding announced that they considered Asia's disappearance to be a criminal matter
00:24:16
and Foul Play was suspected after the book bag's discovery of course that surrounding area was thoroughly searched
00:24:22
afterwards but other than the pants or the animal bones no additional evidence was reportedly located at that
00:24:31
time one thing that I found really interesting here captain and this is all based around the finding of the book bag
00:24:40
it was the sheriff's statement at the time he's kind of going through some of the facts of the case and he's given us
00:24:47
a little more information here so his statement was several drivers witnessed her Asia walking South along North
00:24:54
Carolina Highway 18 around 4:00 a.m. but didn't not alert police her parents reported her missing a few hours later
00:25:02
when they woke up and found Asia's bed empty more than a year later her book bag was discovered buried along the same
00:25:09
Highway where she was last seen walking based on our investigation we have reason to believe that individuals in
00:25:18
this community or the surrounding area have knowledge of or information pertaining to The Disappearance of
00:25:26
Asia varant interesting to me that what he's saying in general there is now this
00:25:34
area where the book bags found is the point of our investigation rather than where she went
00:25:42
missing from we think someone in this area 26 mil North has information pertaining to Asia's
00:25:49
[Music] case [Applause] [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 [Music] Freedom all right we're back a quick
00:28:23
announcement we will be at crime Con in Austin Texas our promo code is tcg1 for 10% off if you use our promo
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code and also I will be going uh Nick cannot make it this year to Crime con UK and our promo code is the same
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tcg1 for 10% off your tickets in January of 2014 detectives announced that they were
00:28:53
looking into 57-year-old Donald Ferguson who who was arrested for the 1990 rape and murder of 7-year-old shalanda P
00:29:02
whose body was found behind an elementary school in Greensboro North Carolina while investigating a seemingly
00:29:10
unrelated sexual assault in 2013 the authorities in South Carolina entered his DNA into a National Database
00:29:19
and realized it matched the suspect sample in shala's case so they're in South Carolina they're investigating a
00:29:28
completely different case they have some DNA that they throw into the system and
00:29:33
they they come up with a hit to this other victim right this murdered victim seven-year-old murder victim shalanda P
00:29:42
so authorities of course are going to arrest this Donald Ferguson they try him for it he's found guilty but what this
00:29:51
gives us here is a potential suspect because they want to know what this guy would would have been doing in February
00:29:59
of 2000 yeah it's reported that he was living about 40 M from the city of Shelby at and around that time so he
00:30:09
could have had something to do I will throw this out there though in the the case of shalanda P she was a neighbor a
00:30:19
neighbor's daughter and her body was found fairly close to their home and unfortunately
00:30:28
when these cases are solved and I mean anybody can think back to cases that that they've heard elsewhere are seen on
00:30:35
TV a lot of times when it's younger victims like this especially young boys and girls it's often a a neighbor
00:30:45
someone that has seen this child time and time again maybe doesn't maybe has some type of relationship with the
00:30:51
family maybe doesn't but it's usually someone that's in close proximity to to the victim themselves the old creepy
00:30:58
[ __ ] neighbor yeah so they they looked into him I don't know I know nothing has
00:31:04
come of it because uh we would be having a much different discussion here today that was back from
00:31:10
2014 and well one of the things that you haven't got into is you know this was 2000 she was 9 years old the the family
00:31:18
didn't have a family computer which some people think that's odd and in today's standards I think that would be a little
00:31:25
strange for family not to have some kind of access to the internet whether it's through a cell phone a tablet or or some
00:31:35
other means but in 2000 I didn't have a computer I don't think uh you know my parents were divorced and I I don't
00:31:45
think either one of them had a computer at the time or or one that was working well or or had easy capabilities or easy
00:31:55
access to the internet so the grooming or the possibility that some uh pedo was in contact with her to get her to go out
00:32:07
of her house that night would be somebody that the family would have had to know and again I don't think there's
00:32:14
any evidence of or was connected to circles that the family would know about her school the church the basketball
00:32:20
team yeah you're right if if some creep lured this kid out of her house he did didn't use it he didn't do it via
00:32:28
computer into the home right and you're right there are people that like I've I've heard it and read it time and time
00:32:36
again people will say ASA had a very sheltered life all no they just didn't have a computer and there is now think
00:32:44
about how sheltered this is a couple days before she goes missing she's at her aunt's house you know and then the
00:32:50
next day she's at the basketball and then she goes to her brother slumber party that has almost a dozen kids there
00:32:56
she's in Bible study classes plays on the basketball team she goes to school right this is not a sheltered life this
00:33:02
is an extremely normal life I age uh her mother was on record at some point saying that they didn't have a computer
00:33:09
because um they didn't want any pro you know they had small children 10 and 9 years old they didn't see the need for a
00:33:18
computer nor did they want to mess with any of the headaches of monitoring what the kids may be doing on the computer
00:33:25
yeah keep the the other thing too sometimes if you can't afford something you just don't buy it I mean I was
00:33:30
trying to think I was going to say the same thing I was going to say Yeah in 2000 I didn't have a computer either
00:33:35
that doesn't mean that I was sheltered no I I had one it just it worked horribly I think it was one of those old
00:33:43
Gateway computers that was was all jammed up with Napster music yeah Napster music and porno and you know
00:33:51
what and I couldn't afford to replace the thing uh cuz I didn't make good money and they were expensive so so
00:33:57
there's it it doesn't point to a sheltered life in my opinion well you should have told your girlfriend not to
00:34:02
download all that porno all right back to the case so we have the FBI that comes out and they announce a
00:34:12
suspect vehicle which is believed to be either an early 1970s Lincoln Continental Mark
00:34:21
4 or possibly a Ford Thunderbird green in color with rust around the wheel wells yeah I mean look if you take these
00:34:31
two cars and put them side by side they look like the same car just maybe a like
00:34:36
this was the newer model and this is the older model but they are different cars
00:34:40
by different manufacturers yeah very similar vehicles um I can understand why if somebody's reporting this to
00:34:47
authorities that they wouldn't be able to 100% safe or certain that it was a Ford Thunderbird or a Lincoln Mark 4
00:34:56
what I do find extremely interesting about this tip is look she went missing in 2000 this is reported to be an early
00:35:06
1970s vehicle that makes it not oneof a kind but fairly unique yeah where if you
00:35:14
could find this vehicle or get a direct link to this V vehicle you're going to have a bigger
00:35:22
piece of the pie to work with if you're an investigator now one thing that I find weird is that
00:35:30
there's no specifics given on where this new information came from and I want to
00:35:35
put new in air quotes there air quotations there new information is this something that they had for
00:35:41
years or was this in fact new information because I I've seen a lot of people argue that because it could be
00:35:49
something that they had a tip that they had early on and now that they're they're pulling this out of their back
00:35:55
pocket and look and you know we we see this all the time and we've heard John Douglas talk about this these law
00:36:03
enforcement agencies need to sometimes make a decision early on are we going to use the public for help or not and if we
00:36:12
are then this tip you know if this is not a new tip but something they had early on this is something that would
00:36:19
have been better on to to know early on because it's pretty easy to get rid of a
00:36:24
vehicle well and that's going to be my major hang up with this case and with the investigation itself now when in
00:36:31
their press release what is stated is that the vehicle was occupied two times I don't know what that means the sheriff
00:36:41
at the time this is Alan Norman also said that the car was discovered by legwork you know because they want to
00:36:49
know where this new information's coming from it was discovered by leg workk between the Sheriff's Office
00:36:53
investigators and the FBI but would not go into any further detail about the new
00:37:00
lead the direct statement is that Asia may have been cited getting into a distinctive dark green vehicle early
00:37:09
1970s model car on the night that she was last seen the vehicle which had rust around the wheel wells again is thought
00:37:16
to have been a Lincoln markv or a Ford Thunderbird those photos pictures examples of those Vehicles come up
00:37:24
pretty regularly if you just Google Asia degrees name yeah and we'll post those on all social media Facebook Instagram
00:37:32
and Twitter this is going to bring us up to October 2018 I I I don't I mean this case just
00:37:42
leaves me shaking my head uh for for many many reasons and I and I don't want to sound like I'm Kerman the Frog being
00:37:54
Uber critical of the sheriff's department but I I just can't help but under I just don't understand this
00:38:02
investigation this is when the Cleveland County Sheriff's Office detectives appealed for information from the public
00:38:09
about two items of Interest this was a book this is melet's pool which is a children's book by Dr Seuss and a New
00:38:21
Kids on the Block concert T-shirt now an investigator said that these items are vital clues in the Asia
00:38:28
degree investigation at the time oh investigators would not say where these items came from or why they believe them
00:38:36
to be vital clues in Asia oh in her case it was later revealed that these two items were found in her book bag that
00:38:45
was found in August of 2001 MH the book itself was later determined to have been borrowed and we know this
00:38:55
per stamp inside the the book the book was borrowed from the Fon Elementary School library in early
00:39:04
2000 the statement from the police and the FBI is that Captain I tell you this makes me want to chug this beer and
00:39:13
punch myself in the face or punch yourself in the nuts MH they're stating that in the face Asia did not check this
00:39:22
book out they're ALS o stating that they we don't know who checked it out because
00:39:29
the records don't go back to the year 2000 holy [ __ ] let's explore all of the problems with everything that they just
00:39:39
said you can tell me that you know that the book was borrowed from the Fon Elementary School library in early 2000
00:39:46
but you can't tell me who checked it out but you can tell me that it wasn't Asia that seems awfully
00:39:52
bizarre the records don't go back to 2000 well when did you start looking for the records because now it's
00:39:59
2018 and you're saying the records don't go back to 2000 if these items did come
00:40:05
from the book bag like your website says yeah you found these items in August of
00:40:11
2001 you mean to tell me that the Fon Elementary School didn't have records of the previous school year then right
00:40:19
right this and if they didn't again how can you tell me that she didn't check out the
00:40:23
book it's it's absolutely just okay but the book zizar yeah but the book to me is not that big of a mystery uh she
00:40:33
checked it out or somebody else checked it out but she had that book I believe she probably had that book at her house
00:40:39
when she left that night it was in her book bag the the item that baffles me more is this um New Kids on the Block
00:40:47
shirt it almost looks like a nighty on on some level and maybe he she could have got it from somebody at that
00:40:55
slumber party but cuz the only record that I have of anybody talking about the New Kids on
00:41:01
the Block shirt is her parents saying that's that wasn't her shirt she didn't own that shirt okay well she was at a
00:41:06
slumber party with how many people but but they again I mean you would think they would would show that to all
00:41:15
persons involved to determine that it that it wasn't hers which is that's been the general statement that and and
00:41:23
that's what was weird about when the book bag was found originally back in 2001 there was a statement by the the
00:41:30
sheriff saying when asked what was in the book bag or in the trash bags he says something like 90% of 90 or 99% I
00:41:40
can't remember which one it was of everything was that was found belonged to Asia and at the time nobody knew what
00:41:47
the hell that could mean and then later we fast forward to 17 years later when they're telling us about this
00:41:57
book that and and I get what you're saying I think of much more importance is the New Kids on the Block t-shirt for
00:42:03
the investigation I just find it incredibly weird that they would say hey this book was checked out from her
00:42:12
school library but she didn't check it out you know you could simply say these items were found in her book bag tell us
00:42:20
that in 2001 so we can actually do something with the information not 17 years later and don't make it so damn
00:42:27
convoluted about the book itself just say it came from her school but we don't we we don't have any evidence that she
00:42:35
is brought it with her or that it that she checked it out it could have come from another source and by the way this
00:42:41
new kid's on the Block shirt it had to have come from another source because we've showed it to everybody that that
00:42:46
knew her and everyone says the same thing she had no reason to have that in her possession in fact that shirt would
00:42:54
have been that was from the 1989 1990 hanging tough World Tour that the New Kids on the Block went you know went on
00:43:03
this tour yeah absolutely classic she wasn't even born until August of 2000 I'm so I'm sorry of of 1990 still
00:43:13
could be a fan I mean of a legendary band like that I mean well I get that they're up there
00:43:20
with can we can can we all agree that if the authorities and her family say that
00:43:26
it's not hers it wasn't hers yeah my only issue with that is again that I don't know the number of
00:43:36
people that were at this slumber party I believe personally that most of those items in her book bag were in her book
00:43:44
bag probably starting on the 11th and then going into the Sleep the slumber party because the the candies that her
00:43:54
coach gave her on the on the 12th you know we we found those so that's what also makes me believe oh
00:44:03
yeah well her basketball uniform would have been packed away as well right and and I agree 100% with you but I I also
00:44:13
want to keep in mind this is something that law enforcement may know we've already seen time and time again they
00:44:20
have information on stuff in this case and they're just not releasing it to the public they may have confirmation from
00:44:27
Mom and or dad that that items were were packed at a different time and really really the cut off is that basketball
00:44:36
uniform yeah possibly cuz that's something that's that's very simple that we know that she she would have had to
00:44:42
have taken it out of a backpack at some point to wear it on Saturday and did it go right back into the backpack
00:44:49
afterwards or was it washed and put away in her room uh these are things that the
00:44:54
parents in law enforce ment would know at the time here's my big big problem with this case it's
00:45:05
time and time again I I feel like the most crucial pieces of evidence are just being swept aside it's almost like
00:45:13
they're brushed under the rug it seems like law enforcement for the most part believe that something weird was going
00:45:21
on that probably involved Foul Play very quickly in this little girl's disappearance they appealed to the
00:45:28
public for help they just didn't appeal to the public I think in the in in the right
00:45:35
manner right again like you said this case is really frustrating I mean one why did she leave her house doesn't make
00:45:41
a lot of sense maybe sleepwalking maybe she was lured out by somebody and then all these items that don't seem to be
00:45:50
connected to her that nobody can connect back to her a book a night shirt and then this this picture of this other
00:45:58
girl well we'll go through our thoughts uh in some some better detail here in a minute be before I want to hit on a
00:46:06
couple of other items here captain in November of last year November of 2020 an inmate named Marcus melon who is a
00:46:16
convicted he's been convicted of sex crimes against children from 2014 convicted piece of [ __ ] he wrote a
00:46:24
letter to the Shelby newspaper claiming that Asia degree was murdered and he knows where to find her M so of course
00:46:34
these claims were under investigation for many months but not uh verified again another problem with this
00:46:43
case though is that road itself is what do you say 180 some miles 145 yeah okay so that's that's a lot of distance for
00:46:54
even somebody to go oh yeah we picked this girl up and then eventually uh we put her remains back on that road or
00:47:00
whatever you know they if they're off by 10 miles probably too much for the Searchers to to to figure out so in his
00:47:09
letter to the um newspaper he wrote Asia degree has been missing for over 20 years about four months ago I had found
00:47:18
out her whereabouts and what had happened to her she was killed and then took and buried I do know how and what
00:47:26
town she is in I hope you get this letter and do come see me it's on the up and up so it took a while for
00:47:35
investigators to they were saying that it was Co that was slowing them down on interviewing
00:47:40
and it sounds like there was a an outbreak where this man is being housed where he was serving his time so that
00:47:48
seems very likely but later in fact just very recently can't remember if it was days or just a couple weeks ago but
00:47:58
authorities came out and said you know we've spoke to this inmate we've looked into everything he said it's not L us
00:48:05
anywhere we don't know if this is they're not questioning the credibility of the information as far as this guy
00:48:13
believing what he's telling them what it is is that they figured out that this is all information that he's
00:48:21
received second third fourth hand right it's it's information that's traveled from person to person to person to
00:48:27
person that seemed to have worked its way to him and by this point it has no relevant information or anything that
00:48:34
they can use for their investigation over the 21 years that asa's been missing there's been three different
00:48:42
inmates that's come forward saying they know where she is and what happened to her we discussed two of them in detail
00:48:48
the the third one I believe took place in 2004 and I kind of skipped over that because it it was really nothing it was
00:48:56
a it was an inmate saying this is where her body can be found they searched there and search there and search there
00:49:03
and it was just wa wasted expense wasted efforts they they found zero there nothing right so for me Captain when we
00:49:12
when we talk about the thoughts and feelings and suspicions that we have in this
00:49:18
case the thing that that really breaks my heart that that I mentioned in yesterday's episode
00:49:26
you know some of these cases really get to you and some of them it almost feels like the people aren't so real that that
00:49:31
they're you know actors on a screen somewhere but this one I what I cannot shake from from my mind and from my
00:49:39
heart is thinking about that young girl walking down walking down the side of the street out in the country in the
00:49:47
pitch black cold and rain on her own that that has has pierced my heart and will stick with me for some time
00:49:58
that breaks my my heart to think about that and then I keep going back to the idea of okay yes there's a chance she
00:50:06
might have been sleepwalking I can agree with that but if she wasn't she was this
00:50:11
is the act of a desperate person she's either running away from something horrible or running to toward something
00:50:19
and whatever it was if she it had a sense of urgency the storm was not going to stop
00:50:25
her the dark was not going to stop her whatever it was she was going to go and and carry out whatever Mission she she
00:50:33
set herself on and I don't have I know some people do and I'm no smarter than anybody else definitely not but I don't
00:50:43
have any suspicions about asa's parents or about the family I don't see any evidence that there was anything weird
00:50:52
going on I really don't think she was running away from anything I think she was very likely running towards
00:50:58
something and my gut will not allow me to to feel suspicious about the parents and and look I I've called out parents
00:51:07
in many many other cases M many other cases usually that's my go-to when I first started reviewing this thing my
00:51:15
go-to is normally the parents well when I first started reviewing this I I thought how could it not be the parents
00:51:21
or one of the parents yeah but what what's interesting I I think sometimes you have to have have the the eyeball
00:51:27
test and the ear ball test and like you said you can go look up uh interviews they've done with Montel Williams with
00:51:34
Oprah Winfrey uh being on America's Most Wanted a lot of times too they might seek out local publicity for a case but
00:51:44
if they're in on it a lot of times the parents will shy away from a bigger national attention nothing that they say
00:51:52
to me or I mean there's really nothing that they have said ever that I ever felt it was suspicious in any way and I
00:52:00
I know they both took polygraph tests and passed those and allowed in the court of law but it's like well Police
00:52:05
use those as a tool and and they P passed both of them and they just to me they passed the eyeball test in the year
00:52:11
ball test and it's 21 years later if if it were the parents usually that's a very easy conclusion to come to for law
00:52:21
enforcement we wouldn't be sitting here having the same conversation and then then you have to believe let's
00:52:28
say let's say you do suspect the parents well then you have to convince yourself
00:52:32
that somehow there's just some coincidence that that ASA or someone matching her
00:52:38
description was seen walking alone in the middle of the night on the side of the highway by multiple people and that
00:52:44
somehow her belongings ended up in this tool shed and that somehow her book bag was double bagged and thrown out the
00:52:53
side of the highway 26 mil North of that yeah and what I think here that this is
00:52:59
going back to the chugging a beer and punching myself in the face in the face the thing here that I I cannot get over
00:53:06
Captain is you know you hear you hear the old saying don't bury the lead you know sometime with with journalism oh
00:53:13
the the most important part of the story was three paragraphs down didn't even make the headline I feel like when I
00:53:20
review this investigation that unfortunately for Asia and her family I feel feel like investigators and
00:53:27
journalists have managed to bury the lead time and time again and it it makes zero sense to me the first bit of
00:53:37
information that was found that possibly could be connected to asa's Case and I say possibly because I'm
00:53:45
trying to be responsible I firmly believe that it is related to asa's Case and I'll tell you why it's that
00:53:52
photograph of the unknown girl there is no reason for that photograph to be in the Turner's Tool Shed this shed was
00:54:02
located more than a football field off of the highway it had no doors so it wasn't like something that ASA had to
00:54:10
figure out her way to get into and it had a light because I've I've read people saying that well she would have
00:54:16
had to have known where that tool shed was maybe she did maybe she didn't but the Turners Clearly say in an interview
00:54:22
we have a light that's on that toolshed you could spot it from the road even though it's that far from the road in
00:54:29
the pitch black maybe she simply went in there to get out from the rain or maybe
00:54:33
as you said maybe something spooked her or the the truck driver stopping attempting to help her scares her and
00:54:40
she decides to flee somewhere and that's her only her only shelter but what we do
00:54:46
know is regardless of how they got there items belonging to Asia degree were found in and around that tool shed along
00:54:56
with a wallet-sized photograph of an unknown girl a photo that was shown to her family to her school to people that
00:55:04
knew Asia and everyone said the same thing I don't know who that girl is in the photograph nor do I have any idea
00:55:12
where the photograph would have came from well it's clearly a school picture taking that information what did we do
00:55:18
with it to ask the public for help because here's here's the problem with this case Okay the the book the library
00:55:24
book it's quite unique and in fact that stamp putting it at the Fon Elementary School
00:55:30
makes it oneof a kind the New Kids on the Block concert T-shirt classic it's Unique it's not one of a kind but it is
00:55:38
from a specific tour they only had so many stops on that tour and to take it a step further I'm asking the public for a
00:55:45
little bit of help here if you read the fine print on that on that shirt that tour was the um hanging tough World Tour
00:55:53
from 1989 199 90 but the fine print on it says winterland Productions 1990 big step
00:56:01
Productions 1990 made in the USA so I I'm wondering does that mean that it was made in 1990 and only available for
00:56:11
purchase during the 1990 year of that two-year tour a good point if anybody has any information about that let us
00:56:19
know so that item is not unique but I I mean not one of a kind but it is unique right right the cars the description of
00:56:28
the vehicle very unique not one of kind but again unique what is unique what is one of a kind what is sorry I'm jumbling
00:56:37
my words like crazy what is one of a kind here in the story no matter what you cannot shake it is this little girl
00:56:45
that's in this other photograph M she is one of a kind we've not been able to identify who that person is and you know
00:56:54
why we haven't been able to identify her is because I don't think hardly anybody's seen this damn picture that
00:57:00
when they put it in the newspaper asking for people's help it was at the bottom of page 75 well and that's why the
00:57:07
prosecutors podcast reached out to us to cover this case that's where I get all my news the bottom of page 75 on a
00:57:15
Thursday if you really wanted to locate this girl or people that know this girl or where potentially this Photograph
00:57:22
came from you got to get it out there to the public it's not a picture of Asia it's not
00:57:28
anybody that anybody that knows Asia is saying that they know this little girl it would have helped if it was on
00:57:32
Oprah's show well I I have not seen the segment on Oprah Show nor did I see the segment on America's Most Wanted but
00:57:41
I very very little remains of this photograph in fact there's a lot of reports about asa's case to this day
00:57:48
that don't don't even include the photograph being ever found or mentioned anywhere can you send me the photograph
00:57:54
real quick I will send you the photograph but but this is on law enforcement this this Photograph should
00:58:01
have been you remind the public over and over again we're we're still looking for
00:58:06
Asia but we're also looking for information on this Photograph it's not just coincidence that this photograph is
00:58:12
found with her belongings in the same area on the day that she goes missing yeah but law enforcement's people and
00:58:18
people make mistakes and thank you thank you but but of course I make mistakes too also we don't we don't know
00:58:27
what information that they have that is not released to the public so we don't know what it's it's really hard to say I
00:58:36
I think sometimes to go oh well if it was me I would do this well we're we're also looking back on right but we also
00:58:43
know that according to their own statements that they sat on that book in the New Kids on the Block shirt for 17
00:58:49
years how long did they sit on the information about the car and like you pointed out if we're going to ask the
00:58:55
public for help let's ask the public for help well I think that's where law enforcement uh where they dropped the
00:59:02
ball and and here's the thing I understand more than no no no no it's not it's not always dropping the ball I
00:59:08
think it's it's what uh strategy are you going to take if you're going to ask for
00:59:14
the Public's help then you need to to go with that strategy full force not not half asset and I think some of these why
00:59:22
is it that we can look back on some of these investigations and just go man this seems like a chaotic horeshit it's
00:59:28
because they they didn't pick a strategy and just go with it and then you see these items come out 20 years later and
00:59:35
you go nobody's going to remember that or half the people that would remember that they died 10 years ago right and I
00:59:43
know better than most and understand better than most the idea of withholding information to save the Integrity of
00:59:52
your investigation and the Integrity of your case I really freaking get that the
00:59:59
problem though is what what I have here is what we're dealing with today in this
01:00:04
case there's information that could have been put out there in a better way in a
01:00:09
more timely manner that could have led us to a better situation than where we sit today okay so maybe you run the risk
01:00:17
of not being able to get a conviction Because You released too much to the public you don't know what else you
01:00:24
would find using that information what else you would find to get that conviction based off of the
01:00:31
information You released the other issue too is and this is her mother's words she's having a hard time grieving
01:00:42
for her daughter who's been gone for 21 years there's no body there's no grave site to go
01:00:50
to at the very least it's not what anybody would want but Justice finding this girl alive
01:01:00
would be amazing that's the goal Justice for this girl if something terrible happened to her and she's no longer with
01:01:06
us is the second goal but at the very least maybe we could find the remains for this suffering family and we would
01:01:16
still be in a better situation than we are here today so I think that law enforcement and I think that the media
01:01:23
in in a weird way uh intentional or not um buried the lead here on this case I think there was a lot of good
01:01:31
information out there that could have helped been provided to the public in a timely manner with better detailed
01:01:38
information something something good may have come of it now we want to point out
01:01:45
some things here real quick and this is a quote from a from Asia's mother Aquilla who said we're hoping and we're
01:01:53
praying that she's had a halfway decent life even though we didn't get to raise her she was 9 years
01:02:00
old and she'll be 30 this year so this is this is from an interview about a year ago so we've missed everything but
01:02:08
I don't care if she walked in the door right now I wouldn't care what I missed all I want is to see her now the FBI
01:02:16
continues to offer a $25,000 reward for information leading to the person or persons responsible for
01:02:23
Asia's disappearance the community and the Sheriff's Office are offering an additional
01:02:29
$220,000 reward bringing the total reward to $45,000 if you have any information
01:02:39
about Asia degree please call the tip line at 74 67261 or the national Center for missing
01:02:51
and exploited children at 1 1800 the lost that's 1-800-843-5678 [Music] for more True Crime garage make sure you
01:03:10
check out our old episodes they are now available everywhere you listen to podcast also check out our bonus show
01:03:19
called off the Record that's only available on Stitcher premium colonel do we have any recommended reading this
01:03:26
week we are recommending the new book Maniac by one of my favorite True Crime authors Harold sheer we have recommended
01:03:34
Harold sher's books before not too long ago we recommended his book Hell's princess well his new book Maniac the
01:03:42
bath school disaster and the birth of the modern Mass killer is out and available everywhere Mr sheer is a twice
01:03:51
nominated author for the Edgar award he specializes in serial killers and he is absolutely one of the best True Crime
01:04:00
historians and authors go see why by picking up his new book Maniac the bath school disaster and the birth of the
01:04:08
modern Mass killer check out that great title and many many more at true Crim garage.com on our recommended page and
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until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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