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[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man that has spent a lifetime of income on guitars
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and socks. He is the captain. For those about to rock, I salute you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see.
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>> Hey, have you tried the meatloaf, Captain? Your mom's meatloaf. [Music] We'll try washing it down with some
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Swing State by Sibling Revalry Micro Brewery. Garage grade five out of five bottle caps. Swing State has a light
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malt body with citrusy hop character that leads to a dry hoppy finish. I have a light malt body. And this week's beer
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was brought to us by these fine young characters. First up, we have Nicole in the very mysterious parts unknown. Next,
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let's say hi to Rosie in New South Wales, Australia. >> Hello, Rosie. Also in the surfing
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capital of the world. Is Australia the surfing capital of the world, Captain? >> Not really for sure, mate.
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>> Anyway, we have Amy in Brisbane, Australia. Next up, we have GMA in Glasgow, United Kingdom.
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>> Uhhuh. And also we have Fanny in Iceland. >> And we have Daniel from Cannonsburg,
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Pennsylvania. >> Daniel says, "Keep up the great work. I like your jib and this show makes my
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workouts so much better. >> It's scientifically proven that working out affects the quality of Yoji."
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>> And last but not least, we have Ashley in South Dakota who says, "I have been
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binging on this show so much. Ashley loves the tone of the show and the level of the detail, but she does have one
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problem with our show. >> The captain. She is running out of episodes. Well, if you'd like to donate
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to the beer fund, go to truimegrage.com, click on the donate button, and if you are looking for more episodes,
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specifically our older episodes, they are available in the iTunes store and on our website as well.
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>> Yeah, and my work is slowing down, so hopefully we get back in the garage real
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soon. Uh, some extra time in the garage to put out another bonus episode. >> That's enough of the business. Everybody
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gather around, grab a chair, >> grab some meatloaf, >> grab a beer, and let's talk some true
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crime. [Music] This is episode two of the Kelsey Shelling case. Kelsey Shelling was 21
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years old and 8 weeks pregnant when she vanished on February 4th, 2013. She had her first doctor's visit of the
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pregnancy on that day and she sent out pictures of the ultrasound that she received during that visit to her mother
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and to her boyfriend. Well, after the trip to the doctors and after a shift at work, Kelsey drove about 2 hours to
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Pueblo, Colorado to visit her boyfriend, the father of her child, >> Dante Lucas.
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>> Kelsey's family then will report her missing to law enforcement. And that's when law enforcement reach out to Dante
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Lucas and they have a sit down and Dante does not deny seeing her that night. He,
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you know, there's no question that he saw her that night. >> Yeah. And then 10 days later, law
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enforcement are going to find Kelsey's car. >> And this is where we start to see that
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there's quite a bit of movement with Kelsey's vehicle that does not completely align with Dante's story.
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>> Yeah, we start seeing a lot of discrepancy in his accounts >> and this will bring further into
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question the location of Kelsey shelling. This makes it a lot different than a normal missing person case. She's
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2 hours away from her home. She is now they find her car. We would assume that if she, you know, went missing on her
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own that we wouldn't find her vehicle. And so now they have to start viewing this not just as a missing person case,
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but a possible homicide. Yeah. This is where they start to suspect foul play is involved. And when they bring Dante in
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for questioning, his story starts to fall apart. At this point, he lawyers up and then he shuts down and the case
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starts to go cold. >> Yeah, the case goes cold. But it seems like with a lot of missing person cases,
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me being, you know, as far as true crime goes, I think one of my favorite, if there was a category, right, my favorite
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category of true crime would probably be missing person. Mhm. >> And I think with a lot of cases, like if
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you look at if you study the Johnny Gosh case or if you study like Mara Murray >> with missing person cases, there always
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seems to be some weirdness and this case. Yeah. The case starts going cold, but the weirdness just begins.
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>> Yeah. This starts with a Facebook message. Okay. This is a direct message to uh Kelsey's mother, Laura. And this
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comes from a woman who says her name is Jenna Mlan. this woman, she's asking to remain anonymous. So, we we must assume
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this is a fake name that she's giving. Uh but she says that she needs to remain anonymous because her own personal life
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is in danger. Uh this is when Jenna Mlan then decides to have a man take over the
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communication with Kel Kelsey's mother, Laura. >> It makes you wonder, is this a lead or
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is this just some whackadoo? Well, he sends Laura a message and this message says, "Ma'am, please, your daughter is
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not dead. She will be home alive." This man then goes on to tell Laura that Dante had hired a man to kill Kelsey.
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>> And then this man decided that he didn't want to go through with it. And instead
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of killing Kelsey, he sold her into sex slavery. He says that the man had told Dante that he did in fact carry out the
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hit, that he did in fact kill Kelsey. >> But what he did was he dug a fake grave,
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showed it to Dante. >> And you know, I know this show is already, you know, it's already rated E
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for good reason, but uh this next part is a little difficult. Um, he also says that he the man told Dante that an
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abortion was performed on Kelsey before she was killed and that he the man had showed a video of this
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>> abortion that was not obviously not >> willingly participated in by Kelsey. >> I was not ready for that.
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>> Yeah, I really wasn't ready to to say that. >> So, let me just get my head around this
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story so far. We have a lady that contacts Kelsey's mother. >> Yes. >> Through Facebook because, you know,
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that's the best way to be personal these days, right? >> But anyways, well, they do have the help
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Kelsey website and then they the help Kelsey help find Kelsey group on uh Facebook. So, probably that's why this
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happened. So, a lady contacts her. >> Mhm. >> And then a guy takes over the conversation. She wants
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to stay anonymous, >> right? And this guy is coming forward not saying that he put Kelsey into sex
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trafficking, >> right? >> But that he heard from another guy. >> Yeah. He he knows of this situation. He
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knows this man that was hired by Dante to kill her. >> And and and here's what's seems a little
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fishy to me about the story. But then he says the guy couldn't kill Kelsey. So what they did was they performed a
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unwilling abortion on her. >> Well, he says he chose to sell her into sex slavery rather than to to kill her.
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>> Right. >> Um and maybe this was just a money thing. But but >> Right. Right. So you get paid from
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Dante, which has no money that comes from no money, pays him to kill this girl, and then he then doubles up by,
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oh, I'm not going to kill her. I'm actually going to sell her into sex trafficking.
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>> Yeah. And then Dante thinks that Kelsey's actually been killed because he's shown that video and he's shown a
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fake grave that this this man had dug. >> Right. So then why is this guy that didn't actually do the crime, why is he
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reaching out to Kelsey's parents? >> Well, he's saying that he knows where Kelsey is located. Um that I believe he
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says that she had been sold into slavery and and shipped to like the East Coast.
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Mhm. >> And he says he knows where she's being kept and that at some point he might be
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able to help free her and return her home. Um but of course to do this he's going to need money to do so.
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>> Uh of course. >> Yes. The Mr. Good Samaritan coming forth here. Um he wants $50,000.
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>> Oh, that's it. >> To execute this plan and bring Kelsey home. Uh he wants $25,000 of that
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upfront. Um, and he's he's saying that this money should be delivered to a man in Vancouver, Washington at a McDonald's
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restaurant of all all places. >> Well, I'd like to deliver a giant punch to this guy's fat forehead.
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>> Well, I'll tell you what. This is another reason why I like Kelsey's family so much. They've worked so hard
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on this investigation, and when they receive this new information, th this doesn't stumble them one bit. This this
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shows their strength and how they carry on. Yeah, >> they obviously this is a this is a hoax,
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right? This this it it looks if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's
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probably a duck. >> So, what they're told >> or a rhinoceros, >> what the information that they're given
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is that they are to meet at at this McDonald's restaurant in Vancouver, Washington on a specific date and
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specific time. And the person they're going to be looking for is a name a man named Marcus. He's an African-American
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man. and he will be there and he will be wearing a red ball cap. >> Um, so what Kelsey's family does is they
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get a news group involved in the situation. They actually reached out to the Vancouver Police Department first to
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kind of set up a sting, right? >> For whatever reason that fell through and I believe that that was on
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Vancouver's end, not on Kelsey's family's end that it had fallen through. So, they get reach out to this news
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organization and the news organization sets up shop at this McDonald's restaurant on that date at that time.
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And sure enough, man, there is an African-American man there >> wearing a red ball cap,
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>> right? >> He's sitting at a at a booth by himself. He doesn't booth. >> He doesn't order anything.
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>> And this is when he's approached and he's starting to be questioned. And >> what time is this at again?
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>> It look it looked to me to be daytime. I don't know what time it was >> cuz I mean if this guy has the
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capability of ordering a Mc Griddle and he doesn't lock him up. >> Well, well, the thing here is this is
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where it gets even a little more strange is the guy doesn't even fully deny the whole thing, right? He he tells I don't
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think he's fully aware that he's being questioned by a news group, >> right? >> I think that they have hidden cameras or
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whatever. So, he says that they need to go out to the parking lot. this, I guess, is where he planned the exchange
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of money would take place. And once they're out there, he starts getting grilled. You know, um we we have a news
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guy come out of out of out of the bushes and start saying, you know, who are you?
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Why are you doing this? Where's Kelsey? What do you know? Why are you trying to rip off this family for $50,000?
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And I think before he could get all of that out, you know, the man explains it, you know, why are you here? And this guy
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that's, let's say, quote unquote named Marcus, he says, "Well, I'm here to pick up some money." Well, who are you here
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to pick up the money from? I don't know. I was just told to be here to pick up some money, right?
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>> Do you know how much money you're here to pick up? Uh, no, not exactly. Uh, why
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are you here to pick up money? Do you have a girl? You know, and he and and he says something like he's been told that
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there was some exchange that happened at another time in another place, >> right? and that he was sent by an
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unknown person to go to this McDonald's and pick up the money for this person and take it back to this person. I think
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where this ends up leading that they don't end up being able to trace this to another individual
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>> and this person involved the the man named Marcus at the McDonald's. He does seem a little clueless. It might just be
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all a put on. Who knows? But >> Right. Right. But they don't really seem to have much to charge him with. They do
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investigate this a bit. >> Yeah. But logically speaking, right, is this guy involved? I probably not. It's
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not that hard to if if you were going to transfer a large sum of money or pick up
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a large sum of money. >> It wouldn't be that hard to go, I'm going to I'm going to pay my buddy
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Marcus or pay this guy, a friend of a friend of a friend or even on Craigslist. Hey, I just need you to pick
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up this money or pick up this package. I'm not even going to tell you what it is and I'll pay you a hundred bucks.
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>> Where the investigation goes is they trace some emails that was sent to this guy that went to pick up the money.
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>> Mhm. >> And they trace the emails back to Russia at some point, which which does really
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kind of scare everybody because then they're thinking, well, maybe there is some truth to this sex slave uh portion
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of the investigation that we're talking about. Um, what I think we have here is probably somebody that some some real
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dirt that decides, I'm going to extort money from a family that's hurting and I'm going to get make a few bucks off of
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this and he probably it's probably somebody in the States that has figured out a way to to send these emails around
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and then it then it looks like it's coming from Russia, >> right? Basically, what you're doing is
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you're repointing repointing your IP address. >> Correct. So it seems like it's coming
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from Russia, but it's actually, you know, coming from somewhere in Indiana. >> So some very scary information that that
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really is just a big speed bump in this case and doesn't really go anywhere. But
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it kind of goes back to what you and I have talked about in the Beverly Pototts disappearance where you have a guy that
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shows up and he's demanding a ransom. And you know, in these situations, Captain, you and I agree 100%. If you
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get in the middle of some kind of investigation, you try to extort money from a family that is in need, that a
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family that is hurting, that is looking for a loved one, right? >> You the charges that are that should be
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brought up against you should not only be for extortion, but a certain higher level of extortion because you're
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involved in a missing person's case or or a you know, an an unsolved death. And I don't think yesterday we're as clear
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or as champions as we normally are for Kelsey's family. I mean, I think they've done an exceptional job. And I think,
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you know, follow every lead, you know, look for every answer you can. And oh, by the way, when the cops aren't doing
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what you think they're supposed to do, hey, you know, call them out on that, too. That takes a strong family, which
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is led by her mother, a very strong uh woman. That's great. and that's why she was trying to get CBI to take over this
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investigation. That's all taking place late last year. Another thing that we see going on at the same time is that
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another individual gets involved in the investigation and this is psychic detective Troy Griffin. And we've had
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the opportunity to discuss a few cases with him. And we wanted to play a little bit of that conversation for you today
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regarding Kelsey's case. [Music] Troy, you are a psychic detective and you've been involved in the Kelsey
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Shelling investigation. Uh, have you met with her family? >> Okay, so I have. I've been working with
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her mother, Laura, and um, I got involved in late October of last year, I think it was. Um and Laura was referred
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to me from a um advocate through through another county. So um that was in late October. I met with Laura for about 3
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hours. Um I was able to validate stuff on Kelsey. Uh you know, people don't know. And so um I've been with Laura a
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couple times. Um the first time to PBLO was in November. Maybe it was September, I don't know,
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October, November, and she took me to Dante Lucas's house, grandmother's house, and just gave me a tour of PBLO
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and things that she thought I should see. Um, the second time I went to PBLO, um, I actually was being interviewed by
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uh ABC News Night Line and I took them with me um down to PBLO uh because Laura had a lead on a county road down there.
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she wanted to check out. And so what I have seen in my vision, um I know what I'm looking for. I have an idea where
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it's at. Uh I have to make time to get back down there when it's not really winterish and um and see if I'm pick if
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I if I can find the spot I'm picking up. >> Can you share with us some of those details that are not known about the
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case? >> Well, it's pretty much in the open as far as what I've validated. You know,
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the answer, the short answer is no. Um because I work under confidentiality agreements and and so pretty much
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Kelsey's case is pretty much out in the open. It's a matter of um the police department in PBLO mishandled evidence,
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you know, did a lot of things incorrectly, which is normal. There's been the politics involved. There's been
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the change of personnel. After 4 years of not letting it go, they finally have let it go. And so now it's
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a new set of eyes to retrace everything and see what they can find. >> So there's something that you're going
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to go look for and I imagine after 4 years we are talking about remains. >> Correct. So on Kelsey's case, um I've
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never been to PBLO and there's a big reservoir down there, but what I saw in my vision is like white chalky stone and
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water and I felt like there's a lot of pollen around bushes. When I described what I'm looking for and went to Google
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Earth, a place by PBLO and PBLO reservoir matches what I'm looking for. And the white chalky stone they call
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shell. Now, the area that I'm looking at is um has a name contribute to a bush that puts out a lot of pollen. That
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pollen was also found on her car. So, the couple times I've been there, I've really gone down to support Laura
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and I haven't had time to get into the reservoir because of winter to look where I want to look.
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>> When you're having these visions, are you seeing just the remains or do you see the attack and the events as they
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unfold? >> I do see the events. So, in Kelsey's case, um I did see the events of what
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happened and, you know, discuss them. So, I just take the notes on that and sometimes my work is just validating
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what the police already know. >> So, was this something that was planned? Was her murder planned or was this a
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crime of passion? >> Uh, to me it was um not really a crime of passion, but it was a actual um I
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think an act of rage. You know, he his mom thought he was going to be a basketball star. Take her out of
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poverty. Be the hero. A girlfriend gets pregnant. Mom says take care of it. Her mom is violent herself who'd just been
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arrested for domestic violence from running from a warrant. You know, I think that it was him wanting Kelsey not
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to have the baby and she was absolutely going to have the baby. So, I think it was an act of rage.
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>> So, this is not necessarily planned, but more of an act of rage. Maybe some hatred that had been building over time.
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>> I believe it came from mom. Mom, you know, mom pushing him. Well, what is Dante's mother's involvement in this
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whole thing? We know that she picked him up from the Walmart. Is she simply involved after the fact or was she
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involved in the murder as well? >> Sarah had a big role in this. And you think about Dante, he's he's not too
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highly intelligent. It's an act of rage. >> Um, you know, he's what, 20 years old.
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He doesn't really know people that help him out in a situation like that, but you know, mom does.
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[Music] It's interesting here, Captain, that Troy says he makes the statement that
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Dante's mother had a big role in this. >> Mhm. And what I find interesting about
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that is if he is right, this kind of goes along with an unspoken theory that that I kind of came up with, not my own
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theory, but when I was reviewing the lawsuit, >> well, it's something you came across.
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Yeah. >> Not something that you invented. Yeah. when reviewing the lawsuit that was
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filed against Dante's family >> and what was her possible involvement because what we see in this document, it
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leads one to believe after reading it that not only do we have a situation where Dante was communicating a lot with
00:22:00
Kelsey trying to get her down to PBLO. >> Mhm. But that the mother may have been
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emailing or texting Kelsey as well, Dante's mother, >> which which is anytime that you have 20
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year olds and a relationship and then the mother is getting involved on either side, that that is a direct sign that
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this is not a healthy relationship. Mhm. And the thing that's even more sinister
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about these communications that they're talking about in this lawsuit >> is that these communications would have
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been taking place before the doctor's visit. Meaning that she has at least one, if not two members of the Dante
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Lucas family trying to get her to PBLO before that doctor's appointment. And why is that important, we ask? Because
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that is the first confirmation, medical confirmation that she's pregnant. I don't want to misspe because you know I
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have no experience of this. I don't have any children myself. I'm obviously not a
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female that you know of. >> You're sterile. >> I think it's clear that Kelsey was
00:23:00
experienced some changes >> and and and I think women probably way more than men know their bodies
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>> and and what's going on with them biologically. And I think she knew before she even had to take a test.
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>> And then I think at probably some point she probably did take a test. >> Yeah. And now, so then she's going,
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"Okay, I have all these feelings. I get this gut feeling. >> Uh I I'm experiencing some changes. You
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know, probably, you know, she was late. >> Uh and then then she takes a test, so probably on
00:23:31
her own." And that's when the mother starts contacting her. >> Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like she had taken
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according to Kelsey's mother, she had taken a couple of these home pregnancy tests, right?
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>> And you know, now she's reaching out to Dante and he's aware of the situation.
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Now, they're aware that she's going to go to the doctor's office to get confirmation of such.
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>> I've had a lot of female friends talk to me about this same scenario where when
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they were younger and they had a boyfriend that they end up getting pregnant and they did a home test and
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then you have to go to the doctor to get the confirmation. But in that process that the boyfriend's mother contacted
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them >> and basically because the boyfriend's mother thought this this baby coming
00:24:13
into their lives was going to ruin their son's life >> and maybe possibly hinder this girl's
00:24:19
life that they start advocating for abortion. >> Right. >> And I think it's very clear in this
00:24:26
situation that's what was happening. And I think it's very clear that that was the motive.
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>> And I think you're exactly right. This is what is part of that unspoken theory
00:24:35
that the family is presenting in this lawsuit. So, let's get back into what Troy has to say.
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[Music] >> Troy, do you believe that Kelsey's remains were transferred in her own
00:24:55
vehicle? >> You know, I don't think they were. I think Kelsey's remains were transferred
00:24:59
in another vehicle. But there was that pollen on her car. >> Again, you know, I don't solve crimes,
00:25:04
which I make very clear. I can only tell you what I see, feel, think, and sometimes it's just a validation. So, we
00:25:11
know that there's pollen on her car. We know that the dust that was on her car matches that white shell stuff. So,
00:25:18
these are things that we do know. >> So, in regards to the remains, you are seeing a location that involves water.
00:25:25
So, are they in water or are they around water? You know, that's a tough one. Um,
00:25:33
you know, water. Yes. You know, it's it's you hope she's wasn't in water, but there's a high probability. You know,
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one of the things that I had discussed with Laura when I first met is that I felt like where Kelsey is is where they
00:25:46
fish. Does this have anything to do with the situation where there was this man that came forward, he was fishing, he
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finds what he believes to be human remains, but he delays reporting this. Is is this a different location?
00:26:00
>> Yeah. So, the the thing that you're talking about he reported is a pond that is directly Well, they call it a lake,
00:26:06
but um directly across from the hospital where her car was found. Um you know, common sense tells you that, you know,
00:26:15
you have a hospital that's very busy. It's the hospital's parking lot across the street. He's walked around, fished
00:26:21
around, you know, it's kind of a center of town type thing. Yeah. Don't you think that's a little bit too close and
00:26:27
too right? >> You know, mom's not that stupid. >> What about the apartment that his mother
00:26:34
was living in and in the stain that was reported? >> Yeah, they were living living in a
00:26:39
lowinccome property. So, what I read, what I've heard is that um Sarah never paid the rent on time. In February, when
00:26:48
Kelsey went missing, the rent started to show up on time for the next few months.
00:26:53
landlord got a call or the owner of the property got a call because electric was
00:26:57
shut off and went over there to find an absolutely disgusting pigsty. They pulled the carpet up in the
00:27:06
bedroom and there was a pull blood pool stain underneath the carpet. >> And just to be clear, this is Dante's
00:27:13
bedroom or Sarah's bedroom. >> Well, Dante's blood is time between his grandmother's house and this house. And
00:27:18
I don't know if the boys shared a room. So it would be Yeah. Obviously his room.
00:27:24
>> So from the visions you're seeing, she was killed in that apartment. >> Yes. In that house. Yes.
00:27:29
>> And could you tell how long between the murder and when she was disposed of? How
00:27:34
long was she in that property? >> No, that that I don't know. Um that part I don't see.
00:27:40
>> Did you have any visions on whether this was strangulation or is this blunt force
00:27:44
trauma? >> That could have been part of it. strangulation, blunt force, uh possibly
00:27:49
on the ground. You know, Kelsey fought back. So, you know, my my my visions are that she probably uh strangulation fell
00:27:57
to the floor fighting back. He probably, you know, her head on the floor. >> Can you give us any more information on
00:28:04
where her remains might be found? >> No, you know, as far as the exact location, you know, I keep that to
00:28:10
myself. Um, but you know, I'm going to continue as long as it takes to try to locate the remains if possible. You
00:28:20
know, the the sad part of cases like this is sometimes you'll never find them. [Music]
00:28:36
Want to thank Troy for taking the time to talk about the case with us. Uh the thing here is Captain, you know, some
00:28:42
people it's a lovehate relationship with these psychic detectives, right? The people that get involved in these
00:28:47
investigations. >> Yeah. And I I always find it interesting and like I said, as far as categories go
00:28:52
of true crime, I'm definitely really interested in missing person cases. And then a lot of missing person cases while
00:28:59
you're doing your internet research, right? you'll you'll come across, you know, maybe it's a YouTube video or
00:29:07
maybe it's a website that has a psychic reading about the missing person. >> Yeah. And the thing here is, Captain,
00:29:13
I'm by having this conversation doesn't mean that I put a whole lot of weight into it or does not mean it doesn't mean
00:29:21
that I believe in psychics. Here's the thing. My opinion of investigations is that I'm happy to sit down and talk with
00:29:28
anybody. I it because there's no different difference between somebody having a vision or something coming to
00:29:35
them than a gut feeling I might have on a case. >> Right. And I kind of like the fact that
00:29:40
Troy goes by psychic detective because he's not purely going off of just visions that he's having. He's letting
00:29:49
those visions help him, but he's actually doing some research himself. >> Yeah. He's going to the locations and
00:29:55
he's looking for certain things. The other thing I like here about his his discussion is, you know, we were talking
00:30:01
about the remains and he's saying that no, I don't believe it was her vehicle used. And I bring up that, but what
00:30:07
about that pollen that we were talking about? >> So, there's pollen that was found on her
00:30:12
car, >> right? >> And so, a lot of law enforcement believe that because there was pollen found on
00:30:16
her car. It's and there was some uh kind of DNA that was found in her trunk that
00:30:24
that's in the lawsuit and they're stating the family stating that this DNA or this remains or whatever that was in
00:30:30
the trunk were never tested. >> It was they found a substance that was uh that was thought to be dried bodily
00:30:38
fluids. >> Right. So, it seems like law enforcement is under the belief that because of the
00:30:43
pollen, because of this fluid, that her car was used to dump her body. >> Right. Right. And and I question him on
00:30:51
that. And that's where I like that he comes back and he says, "Look, I'm I don't claim to solve anything. It's just
00:30:56
I have these visions. These are the things I see and I don't know what they mean."
00:31:02
>> And you and Troy talked about a fisherman possibly finding some kind of human remains. Uh, can you dive into
00:31:09
that a little more? >> Yeah. So, this is a story that came out and and to be honest with you here,
00:31:13
there's not a whole lot backing this story because the the situation is this that there was a man that was out
00:31:20
fishing in what I called a pond and Troya correct me and said it was a lake. It's it's a rather small body of water.
00:31:26
>> Well, no, I think what he was saying was it it is a pond, but most people in that
00:31:30
area call it a lake. >> Yeah. And so this man was out fishing and he believes that while he was
00:31:36
fishing he saw what appeared to be either a rib cage or a human skull. Maybe both. It's a little unclear to me.
00:31:44
The thing here is though that he does fail to report it right away. Right. >> And it's a little unclear as to how long
00:31:52
he waited to report it. Was it 24 hours or was it a week? I cannot say. But what
00:31:57
happened was he say stating that he is a person that has once had some gang affiliations. He's he's had some run-ins
00:32:06
with the law and he kind of he got scared when he saw this. He was afraid to report it because he thought they
00:32:13
would think he was involved in whomever, >> you know. Right. Right. Right. >> And and on top of that, he's probably
00:32:19
not 100% certain as to what he exactly saw. And it was through talking with uh people close to him that they convinced
00:32:26
him to finally go to the police. And of course, because some time has elapsed since then, they were unable to confirm
00:32:34
what he thought he had saw. >> Yeah. So, it's kind of weird because it seems like maybe it's just some
00:32:39
speculation. Doesn't seem like I who knows if this is factual. The other piece of speculation is this report by
00:32:46
the landlord that there was a stain in Dante's mother's house. >> Yeah. So, the situation is this. I I
00:32:53
thought clearly you can hear from the conversation I thought it was an apartment but it but it's a house that
00:32:58
was u in question here. Uh the the family moved out. Dante's family moves out of this house after some period of
00:33:06
time >> and the landlord is unaware that there was a missing woman at the time and that
00:33:12
furthermore that the missing woman had a connection to the family living at his property. And it's kind of hard to
00:33:18
believe because in this small town PBLO, it seems like this was big news that Kelsey's picture was all over uh the
00:33:26
town that that it it didn't be, you know, it became a mission of theirs to kind of help figure out what happened.
00:33:34
>> Right. Well, I don't think that the landlord did anything wrong here. I think it truly may have just been that
00:33:39
he was ignorant to the situation because as as we said, Dante lived on and off. He shared time between his grandmother's
00:33:46
house and his mother's house. He may have known Dante's mother, but didn't realize who Dante was that he's seeing
00:33:52
on the news. Um, so the situation is this. After the family moves out, you know, the landlord has to do his normal
00:33:59
cleanup. You know, you fix a few things, you clean, you paint. Sometimes you have
00:34:03
to replace the carpeting as well. Well, this was necessary on this situation because it sounds to me like the place
00:34:09
looked like a bunch of animals live there, right? And so he's in there replacing carpeting and it was
00:34:15
underneath the carpeting once they pulled up the carpeting that that a blood stain is found. And it I believe
00:34:20
it was found like in the padding. So So what happens here is this landlord actually does reach out to law
00:34:26
enforcement. He says, "Hey, I rented prop property, right? >> I'm cleaning it out. I found something
00:34:31
that was strange. I don't know what I'm seeing here. Do you want to come and take a look at it?" The police said,
00:34:37
"No, it's probably nothing." He kept he you know he replaces the carpet and he keeps the debris
00:34:43
>> right >> for a little bit of time and he contacts them again and says again I found this
00:34:48
stuff I'm not going to hang on to it forever do you would you like me to drive it down to you so you can take a
00:34:53
look at it and they said no you should probably just get rid of it it's probably not a big deal about it so he
00:35:01
he only gets rid of this this possible evidence because the police tell him to do so
00:35:07
>> right and okay So, if we believe his story, right? >> Mhm. >> This is another example of law
00:35:14
enforcement just not doing their job in this case >> where it's just like you got this. I
00:35:19
mean, all they had to do was just go, "Well, who did you you know, who did you rent this house to?"
00:35:24
>> Mhm. >> And then he goes, "Well, you know, I I rented it to Sarah." >> Sarah Lucas.
00:35:30
>> Right. Sarah Lucas. Dante's mother. And they wouldn't know that it was Dante's
00:35:34
mother, but they would just look up Sarah Lucas and go, "Oh, by the way, we have this missing person and her son is
00:35:41
a possible suspect in this." >> Yeah. >> You know, uh he cuz he had her car uh without the girl and he used her debit
00:35:50
card and we had charges that we're trying to bring on to him. So, you would think at this point they'd go, "Okay,
00:35:55
this is something we definitely want to see." >> It's crazy because this is the kind of
00:35:59
thing that you think that they would love. I mean, you're going to get handed evidence on a silver platter. You didn't
00:36:04
even have to go to the ne necessity of getting a warrant to achieve this evidence. The guy offered to drive it to
00:36:11
you. I mean, I mean, we already know you're being lazy about this investigation.
00:36:16
>> Well, I think what he should have done, right, what this law what this landlord
00:36:19
should have done is he said, "Not only am I going to get in my car and I'm going to drive it to you,
00:36:25
>> Mhm. I'm going to bag it and I'm going to process this myself and then I'm going to pay for it.
00:36:31
>> Yeah. Because the the the here here I mean it doesn't take it doesn't take um
00:36:37
any brilliant mind to put this together. Yeah. The text messages lead Kelsey to Dante. All right. That puts her roughly
00:36:46
near or in the home of Dante's mother. Then you find a blood stain that leads to evidence of fl foul play being
00:36:54
involved, right? >> And then you have evidence she's she's disappeared, right? >> We need to find her.
00:37:00
>> And by finding her car, it points to evidence that she's not just missing, but that more foul play.
00:37:05
>> More foul play. And you failed to you failed to test that evidence as well. >> Right. Then then when we do have the
00:37:11
car, the car is wiped clean, but we have a handprint. And then we also have a possible, you know, body uh body fluid
00:37:19
in the trunk. More evidence of foul play. >> And on top of that, we have video footage of of Dante returning the car.
00:37:26
We have video footage of the mother and grandmother picking him up behind the Walmart after he drops off the car.
00:37:31
Video footage of an unidentified man moving the car. Now, this this is your case. This is your open andsh shut case.
00:37:40
And not only does it get you one conviction, but probably three others as well. Well, and I'm I'm going to play a
00:37:45
little devil's advocate here, though, >> okay? >> Because I mean, we're harping pretty
00:37:49
hard on law enforcement. The problem with that, though, is it is an open case. >> Mhm.
00:37:54
>> So, what are they telling us or what what are they not telling us that they do know,
00:38:01
>> right? There could be even more, >> right? They could they could have more evidence that
00:38:05
>> additional stuff, >> right? And so I mean it's yes I think if this guy's story it's true they dropped
00:38:11
the ball but at the same time either way if this guy's story is true that's more
00:38:17
evidence why wouldn't you collect it and process it >> you know is beyond me. >> Well and a reminder too that the reward
00:38:24
money has been doubled for the month of February 2017 right >> um this could spark some people to talk
00:38:31
to come forward. Who knows we might get lucky on that avenue. The thing here is though, we also have a couple of
00:38:38
different of new theories involved in this case. We just talked about all of the movement of the vehicle, right?
00:38:45
>> Well, we just kind of went on a rampage. >> Yeah, this vehicle's been moved around
00:38:48
quite a bit. And one theory that has come up very recently, and this is interesting here because this might
00:38:54
bring a whole another suspect into this crime. And I don't mean somebody that would clear Dante or Dante's family
00:39:03
members of wrongdoing. I mean, there might be some other person we don't even know about that was involved in this
00:39:07
thing. So, the the theory goes like this. Okay. Now, remember, we have a situation where the unidentified man, he
00:39:15
comes and he picks up the the vehicle, Kelsey's vehicle from the Walmart, >> the Chevy Cruise, the black Chevy Cruise
00:39:22
>> that was dropped off by Dante >> the day before. >> Well, this unidentified man, he walks
00:39:27
from what appears to be the back of the Walmart parking lot, right, >> to the front of the Walmart parking lot.
00:39:33
He gets in the vehicle and he drives off. >> And and I find that a little suspicious
00:39:39
just in the fact that we do know that when Dante dropped off the car or what we believe is Dante dropped off the car,
00:39:45
where was his mother >> in the behind the Walmart? >> Right. Right. >> And so and here's
00:39:50
>> so if she is the mastermind, right? Or not maybe the mastermind, but was somebody pushing or that she's obviously
00:39:58
connected to this. So now that we have we have Dante, we have Dante's mom, we have Dante's possibly his grandma
00:40:04
because she was in the car when they picked him up. >> And now we have this other man that
00:40:08
drops off the car and heads to the back of the Walmart. >> Well, he this man came from the back of
00:40:13
the Walmart to pick up the car. So this man moves the car from the Walmart to the hospital parking lot where it's
00:40:19
later found. Mhm. Well, what they did not figure out in this videotape footage that they've had of this situation until
00:40:26
very recently is that there's another car in that Walmart parking lot that does some strange movements.
00:40:31
>> Okay. >> And what these movements are is this car, it's a it's a white vehicle. And if
00:40:36
you go to Kelsey's website, uh that is helpfindelie.com, you can find video footage of this
00:40:42
there. And I and I recommend everybody do so. The thing here is this white vehicle, it takes almost an identical
00:40:49
path that this unidentified man takes from the back of the Walmart to the front of the Walmart where the where
00:40:56
Kelsey's car is positioned. >> Right. >> Then what happens is this white car parks and somebody gets out and looks to
00:41:04
see if almost looks to see if Kelsey's car was moved and and had drove away. >> Okay.
00:41:10
>> And then gets back in the car and drives off. So, >> so the theory is that >> the person doesn't go in the store,
00:41:16
doesn't do anything other than pull into a parking spot, sit there for a few minutes, take a look around, and then
00:41:23
leave. >> Right. So, so the theory is that this guy comes from the back of the Walmart
00:41:29
from somewhere. >> He We know that this is the individual that moves Kelsey's car to the hospital.
00:41:35
Mhm. >> And so the the idea really is that and and this is this is actually pretty
00:41:39
genius because sometimes, you know, take the Brian Schaeer case for example, we have surveillance footage anytime and
00:41:47
this is going to happen more and more and more with cases and technology advancing. We're going to have more and
00:41:52
more cases that involve surveillance cameras. Oh yeah. >> And sometimes it's not it's not the main
00:41:58
subject of the video that's the most important. you know, we can't identify this guy, but we know that this is the
00:42:05
guy that moved the car. But by watching it over and over, then you realize that this other car probably had something to
00:42:12
do with this guy. And so this car possibly is what drove the guy to Walmart in the first place, drops him
00:42:19
off, he walks from the back to the front. This car follows him around. Once the car is gone,
00:42:25
>> this person then drives to the hospital and picks this guy up. >> Yeah. Because once you drop off the car
00:42:31
at the hospital, you got to get back home. >> Yeah. And this is where I think we might
00:42:35
see a huge break in the case. This is a great theory because I tell you why, with the FBI and CBI taking over, they
00:42:42
will do the due diligence and try to enhance that tape. Maybe you can pull a plate number off of that that videape.
00:42:48
And if you get somebody in in a closed room and ask them the tough questions, they start to squirm and they might
00:42:55
start giving people up. Well, and think about this hypothetically and and we've we've had some friends that have gotten
00:43:02
to a little bit of trouble in the past by dropping somebody off, not knowing why they're dropping them off.
00:43:08
>> Ain't no friend of mine. >> Ain't no friend. No, but what if this guy or girl or whoever was just like,
00:43:15
"Hey, I have to take my friend's car over to the hospital." >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, you drop them off at the
00:43:21
Walmart. They start driving the car to the hospital. You drive to the hospital. You pick them up and you take them back
00:43:27
home. You don't put two and two together. You don't even hear the report that the missing girl's car was a black
00:43:34
Chevy Cruz. You don't even think about it. >> I see what you're getting at. Yeah.
00:43:36
>> And so, so then when the FBI gets involved and when it's not, it's not if when they find this person and when
00:43:45
they, you know, interrogate this person. This person possibly wasn't involved in
00:43:51
the crime, >> right? and and and was just helping out a friend, doing a favor, and that person
00:43:57
is way more likely to be like, "Oh, no. I dropped this person off." >> Yeah. >> You know, and that's maybe all they
00:44:04
know, but the person that moved the car knows a lot more. >> Yeah. And the thing here is uh it's the
00:44:10
big key to solving this case is is putting identification to that unidentified man that's moving the
00:44:16
vehicle. >> Oh, man. We're getting kind of riled up in the garage today. Is it getting a
00:44:20
little hot in here? It's getting hard to control myself, Captain. >> Well, at least it's not freezing cold
00:44:25
out anymore. Okay, so that's the new theory. But we also have this guy, the surveillance camera. This is has always
00:44:33
been a weird thing to me. And like I said, with the missing person cases, there's always this weirdness. And so,
00:44:40
uh, in that town, people are putting out missing person flyers. >> Yeah. Well, and and some of these are
00:44:45
actual signs that you like stick in the ground as well. >> Right. And the thing here is we have on
00:44:51
videotape, you know, because they've put a lot of these signs in the Walmart parking lot and in the parking lot areas
00:44:58
of these places that have been involved in the investigation, you know, where the car was moved to and things like
00:45:03
that. >> So, somebody is going around and taking the effort to remove these signs, which
00:45:10
is makes no sense at all to anybody, right? >> Um, they have video footage of this
00:45:16
person. the person seems to be trying to conceal their identity because the the what little video footage I've seen,
00:45:23
right, it appears to be somebody almost in like a jogging outfit, but their their hood is up
00:45:28
>> and they're like running, sprinting up to the sign, removing it and taking off.
00:45:33
>> Um, in one of the videos, I believe that they have a vehicle that they think is
00:45:38
involved in this situation. Now, the rumor mill seems to be that this person may not have anything to do with
00:45:46
Kelsey's disappearance >> or any type of foul play. >> He's just an [ __ ] >> Yes. Uh yes, a major [ __ ] But they
00:45:56
regardless, they want to they they're looking for this guy. And this is very cool. They got video footage him on on
00:46:02
the news locally and the police are actively looking for this guy and for good reason. Let's bring him in and see
00:46:10
what he does know, you know, before we just out outrightly clear him. Why would somebody take part in such strange
00:46:17
behavior? >> Yeah, it's very strange. So, either one, he's just a blatant [ __ ] or he has
00:46:22
something to do with this and he just, you know, is pulling these out, you know, so nobody talks about anymore.
00:46:29
like it kind of one of those like you know if people aren't talking about this then maybe I don't have to worry so much
00:46:35
anymore and so people like you know Dante and his mother and and anybody that possibly is involved that's why
00:46:42
we're talking about it >> right >> you know and if you can feel a little heat and if our listeners can uh you
00:46:48
know put some stuff out on the internet and this guy feels a little heat from it
00:46:51
if Dante feels a little heat from it fine with me. Yeah. >> You know this guy's not doing anything.
00:46:56
his jump shot wasn't good enough to get him to the NBA. >> Right. >> Right. And he, you know, he's probably
00:47:01
not doing much with his life. And uh I hope this gets back to him. >> And I think that it will because we we
00:47:07
see that there's some evidence here, right? We see there's plenty of evidence as far as I'm concerned to get somebody
00:47:13
in a room and break them down. >> Yeah. I think that's the tough thing about this case is it's one of those
00:47:18
cases once you start diving in, it's it's almost a mystery on why it's not solved yet.
00:47:24
>> You're exactly right. And and here's the other thing too, Captain. The family, if
00:47:28
you review the lawsuit that they put together, now of course this was not it was thrown out. They didn't do anything
00:47:34
with it, but the family brought up this lawsuit and they were going after Dante and family members of Dante's and it
00:47:43
within those pages, it basically pieces together a theory for everybody, the family's theory on how this whole thing
00:47:50
went down. And we've we've talked about it a little bit, but I wanted to kind of
00:47:53
just go through it real quick because it was unclear before. But the general theory is that at some point before the
00:48:00
doctor's visit that Dante's family starts contacting Kelsey trying to get her to come to PBLO to visit down to
00:48:07
PBLO before that visit. That seems to be a very important date for them for whatever reason. When they are unable to
00:48:14
achieve that, then all of a sudden we have this surprise. Now we have nice Dante come forward and he's got a
00:48:20
surprise for Kelsey, >> right? It's like some form of trickery. >> Yeah. Try to lure her down there with
00:48:24
some kind of nice surprise. And then it's at this point that we start to see this convolute convoluted movement of
00:48:31
Kelsey's where meet me at the Dante says meet me at the Walmart. She goes there.
00:48:36
She stood up for a bit of time and then through some communication Dante says meet me near my grandmother's place.
00:48:42
Right. She goes there. >> We don't hear from her after that. This is where we know that she disappeared
00:48:48
and we think something happened inside that home inside Dante mother mother's rented home
00:48:54
>> and then from there we have a situation where now we have to dispose of the remains and this is where we have that
00:49:01
weird cell phone activity where they they've collected data and the information that will show that Dante's
00:49:08
cell phone and Kelsey's cell phone were located in close proximity to one another in a remote location.
00:49:14
>> Mhm. and and there's no reason for that phone call. It's exactly what I think the
00:49:19
family believes that somebody was looking for that phone in the dark. >> And a big question to us on social media
00:49:25
in the last day or so was did they search that area where those those phone calls were made?
00:49:32
>> Uh I don't know that answer. I don't believe so. >> I can't say for certain. Um, what I can
00:49:38
say is that Troy told us that he went there to look on in a certain location that Kelsey's mother wanted to check out
00:49:46
that was off of some kind of county road out there. Maybe Kelsey's mother is aware of where this these phones were
00:49:52
thought to have been located at the time and that might have been the area they were checking. I can't say for certain.
00:49:57
>> Yeah. And you brought up something interesting because there has been some, you know, law enforcement saying, "Hey,
00:50:04
we don't want you guys doing your own searches." >> Right. Right. >> And which I think is a hindrance. I
00:50:09
mean, I think as far if I was law enforcement, it would be really hard to tell a mother or a family looking for a
00:50:17
missing person to stop looking. >> You know, don't look. We We got this. >> Don't look on your own. Yeah. Yeah. If
00:50:24
anything, you should be offering, hey, let's set up a time. Let's set up a, you know, we can put some of our people
00:50:29
together with some of your people and check out that area. >> And like you were saying, I think this
00:50:33
lawsuit is really telling of who the family thinks is involved in the disappearance of their daughter.
00:50:40
>> Yeah. It names Dante and Dante's mother, Dante's grandmother, and certain family
00:50:44
members of his. And as we've seen from the video footage, we know that more than one person is involved in this
00:50:50
somehow. it the the problem here is figuring out who is the nucleus of this whole thing. Is it Dante? Is it the
00:50:57
mother? You know, it's it's it's hard to say. >> And hopefully, if anybody out there
00:51:01
knows anything, hopefully they will come forward. And if you have any information, you want to contact people
00:51:09
at helpfindk.com. >> Yeah. And one thing that I found on the website that I thought was um something
00:51:16
that we should re repeat here um it's it's something that's written as if it's in Kelsey's own own words and it goes
00:51:23
like this. It says, "I am Kelsey Shelling. You know the person who caused me to disappear.
00:51:29
>> You may know his family. You may know his friends. You may know where he hangs
00:51:34
out. You may know whom he confides in. >> You may know where he would go if he were in trouble. You may know where he
00:51:42
would take me. Your conscience may be bothering you. You may know where I am. It's time to talk. It's time to help my
00:51:51
family. It's time for me to go home. My family does not care who you are. You may be afraid. That's not an excuse. You
00:51:59
can call anonymously. Call now. Please call 18554Kelsey or visit helpfindelsey.com.
00:52:10
do the right thing. >> It always baffles me in some of these cases where there is somebody out there
00:52:15
with information and they just don't come forward because they don't want to be labeled as a snitch or whatever.
00:52:22
>> Well, before we wrap this up here, Captain, I want to throw this out there. All right. This is a little reminder to
00:52:28
everybody out there. This case will be solved and it may be solved soon and why CBI has taken this case over. There's
00:52:35
the new theory, which is a good one, too. and it potentially brings a whole other person or maybe persons into the
00:52:42
fold. And so far, there are a lot of low down people in this fold. And that's one
00:52:48
thing I want to address right now. This case will be solved. Arrest and convictions are going to happen. And I'm
00:52:55
guessing they will happen soon. So, I want to address Dante and some of his family because I wouldn't be surprised
00:53:01
if one of them might listen to this episode. So, here you go. the Lucas family and persons that helped Dante.
00:53:08
Listen carefully. Turn yourself in. Do it. Turn yourself in before one of the other lowdowns you conspired with turns
00:53:17
you in. You can help yourself. You can help her family at the same time. Do it because you know better than anyone
00:53:24
that's out there. You do not want to be second to the confession party. And like
00:53:28
always, our thoughts and prayers go out to Kelsey's family and friends and anybody that was affected by this case.
00:53:35
And and if you have any information, please reach out to them at helpfindkelsey.com.
00:53:42
You can also call CBI and their number is 719-647-5999. And if you want to remain anonymous,
00:53:50
they have the PBLO Crimestoppers that you can call at 719-542 STOP. All right, let's get back to some
00:53:58
more beer drinking, right? Uh, and this week's recommendation on the reading is,
00:54:04
>> do you mind if I read a email real quick here, Captain? We we had a funny situation. Okay, last night we did our
00:54:10
show and I get home and I checked the email and we received one from a a guy named Aaron and he's contacting us from
00:54:18
Illinois stating that his father was a detective and his mother was a nurse. So needless to say, the dinner
00:54:25
conversations were always interesting. U but he recommended a case to us where a
00:54:31
um his father had worked on this case where a man named Gary Galer and I hope I said that name right was sentenced to
00:54:38
death for the murder of his elderly parents. Um and his father was involved in this case and has always stuck with
00:54:46
him. Now, Gary ended up being uh over the guilty conviction overturned because what happened was we had a situation
00:54:53
where some outlaw bikers were they figured out that they had actually committed the murders. Right.
00:54:59
>> And so I was able to reply to him stating that the funny thing here is that Aaron, the book that we just
00:55:05
recommended yesterday talks about that exact case. >> Right. And that book is called You Got
00:55:10
to Be Dirty. >> That's right. You got to be dirty by Michael Grogan. and it's uh about the
00:55:16
Outlaws Motorcycle Club in and around Wisconsin. You can pick that up by going to our website trueimeg.com, click on
00:55:22
the recommended page and check out the books and movies that we've recommended there.
00:55:26
>> Yeah, it's a great way to help out the show. You just go to our website. That's
00:55:30
trueg.com. You click on the Amazon banner. You can either buy a book or you can buy anything really. I mean, you
00:55:36
know, with all this sadness that we talk about, I like to comfort myself by buying guitars. like I have a serious
00:55:43
problem with it, but I like to do so by going through our banner and they give us a little kickback and it's no extra
00:55:50
cost to you. And until then, everybody be good, be kind, and don't play. [Music]