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JonBenét Ramsey She was strangled with a cord. Little Miss Colorado 6-year-old murder victim JonBenét Ramsey
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unknown intruder her brother JonBenét Ramsey They still have not interviewed the
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parents. I didn't do it. Do it. John Ramsey didn't do it and we don't have a clue
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anybody who did it. My life has been hell from that day forward and I want nothing more than to find out
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who was responsible for this. After John Ramsey and Fleet White found JonBenét's body in the wine cellar
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located in the basement, John in a hurry ran up the stairs taking the body with him placing the body on the floor of the
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kitchen. Detective Linda Arndt then moves the body to the living room. Then Arndt orders Fleet White to stand by the
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door to the basement and guard the door. Fleet White goes to the door but for some reason runs downstairs to retrieve
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the duct tape from the basement floor. This is all taking place between 1:04 p.m. and 1:23 p.m.
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At approximately 1:30 p.m., Priscilla White calls her home. I'm guessing here Captain, but this is very likely to halt
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Burke leaving the Whites' house and returning to the Ramseys. Around the same time, officers Ron
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Walker and Larry Mason return to the scene, saw JonBenét's body and then searched the home afterward securing the
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house. Shortly after the body was found, John Andrew Ramsey, Melinda Ramsey, and
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Stewart Long arrive at the Ramsey house in Boulder, Colorado. Between 1:30 and 2:00 p.m., a detective overhears John on
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the phone. John called a pilot, his pilot, telling him to ready the plane. This to me is
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very strange behavior from somebody who has just recovered the body of their 6-year-old daughter. Right.
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Around 2:00 p.m., John Ramsey signs a consent form to search the Ramsey home. I'm just
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touching on that that plane call to the pilot for a little bit here. The the detectives had to stop John Ramsey
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from leaving the the Ramsey family from leaving telling the Ramseys, "Hey, you shouldn't go anywhere. We have a murder
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investigation. The crime scene's your home and you know, they're not going to tell them this up front and center here,
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but obviously, they're suspects." Right. And I I think the way the Ramseys were actually thinking was Atlanta,
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Georgia was what they considered home. So, we have this bad thing that happened. We want to get back home. We
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don't want to be here. We don't want to be in this house. Um but that does, like you said, hinder
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the investigation. I don't think that hinders the investigation of the house or the crime scene, but it hinders the
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investigation in being able to talk with them um adequately. Yeah, and then regarding
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this consent to search form for the the search warrant, if you will, or this makes it seem like John's being
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very cooperative. Yeah, I and I technically don't believe this to be an actual search warrant, you
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know, one that you bring before a judge, judge signs off on it. I believe this is
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just a consent to search form signed by John Ramsey, the the owner of the home. This is just one of those other little
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details within this case that I absolutely cannot stand is that regardless, you know, depending
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on whose magnifying glass you look at these details from, you get a different story Mhm. on what's
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going on here. Where the Ramsey defenders would tell you, "Look, this is proof positive that they were extremely
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cooperative. Don't bother Nick with worrying about that they wanted to hop on a plane and fly far away
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because this shows how cooperative they are. They were signing a consent to search their home form. They have
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nothing to hide. They're an open book." But then the ones that want to come after the Ramseys point out they're not
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really an open book because John later says that he thought he was signing off on a on on saying that yes, you can
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perform an autopsy on the body. Right. So, it's it's just frustrating. That's one of the most frustrating
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pieces of this case. Well, I think that one of the frustrating things is when people say Only one thing's the truth,
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right? Can we agree on that? It can't be both. Yeah. I Well, I don't know. I think Well, they say there's three sides
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to the truth. There's yours, mine, and the actual truth. Um But I think Sometimes there's just the truth. But I
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think with the whole wanting to go back home, he didn't go back home like they wanted to. The cops said,
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"Yeah, don't do that. That's a bad idea." But it's so stupid with this case. It's like a non-point.
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Like, yeah, he's like, "Let's go back home." "Hey, don't do that." "Okay, we're not going back home." But they
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didn't they didn't stay in the house. They Nobody wanted to be in that house. Oh, and I can't I cannot blame them. I
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And I don't even know if John ever went back in that house after that day cuz they ended up staying
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with their friends. But but let's also be clear that around this time, they pulled John into a room by himself
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and they talked to him for a while. Mhm. And at some point, they talked to Burke by himself for a
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while. So, They do talk to Burke. This would be at the um He never comes back to the Ramseys'
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house. Right. So, they talk to Burke one-on-one. My understanding is it was straight-up one-on-one. It was Burke was
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still at the friends' house. Right. And he's over there, you know, playing with the other kids and they're distracting
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him. The I that's a troubling aspect of this case, too, because you can look at just that
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whole situation in two different ways. One, are you protecting your child, Burke, by removing him from the
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situation that could scar him for life, something extremely traumatizing, or are you purposely
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putting him away so that he doesn't disclose some information? Right, but you eventually let him talk to the cops
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one-on-one. John's even in the room with him. Right. So, if you're so worried about what he's
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going to say or if if you knew that he just smashed his 6-year-old sister's head with a flashlight, you're going to
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let him sit in a room with a detective by himself? Or with friends and others that he could share that information
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with willy-nilly. I mean, he's 9 years old. Right. You're not there when when they
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ship him off. And also, that's not just the Ramseys' thought process of all let's get Burke
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out of here. This was a this was the cops and the Ramseys going, "He needs to be removed from this site."
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The cops suggested that he should be removed from the the Ramsey home? No, I think it was it was like a a collective
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effort. It was a collective idea. I don't think it was just as simple as the Ramseys saying, "Hey, he needs to get
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out of here." One thing I will point out here that I think is very troubling on behalf of the Boulder police and on the
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Ramseys is if you're working under the scenario that a child has been kidnapped from
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your home and a ransom has been called for in a letter, Right. wouldn't you want to protect your your
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remaining child? Wouldn't you feel that that there should be some kind of security for this other child
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rather than sending him off to some friends' house? Right. seems It seems it It's another situation where
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we can point out that the Boulder police clearly did not know how to respond to a
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kidnapping situation that where a ransom is being called for. Yeah, but at the end of the day, I think people that are
00:09:00
pointing at the Ramseys constantly, you don't know what it would be like to lose a 6-year-old daughter or how you'd
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react or what you'd be thinking about. I think it'd be hard to think about anything.
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And you go, "Oh, well, they shipped him away, so they're not protecting their son." Well,
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they might not even be able to to think properly. So, I think some of their actions Right.
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That's what I mean. That's when the Boulder police should have stepped in and said, "No. This is
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This This home right now is secure because we have law enforcement presence here. He's safe here." Right. I I agree.
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And they should have done a better job of trying to when they got to the scene initially,
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they should have cleared the whole house. And then then they would have found her
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and then the crime scene wouldn't have been contaminated and they would have enough officers where you're not having
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her father pick her up and contaminate evidence and and then have the mother cry over her and contaminate evidence.
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Have the detective pick up the victim Right. evidence. I mean, it's that's pretty out Well, not only did
00:10:10
Linda Arndt move the body after John moved the body. Mhm. And this is important to the autopsy.
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But so she allowed someone to take a blanket as you know, a sign of uh to protect their child or I don't know,
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remorse or whatever. Whatever however many different ways you want to look at it.
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Right. She allowed someone to take a blanket and place it over the body once it was removed to the
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moved to the living room. Yeah. And then to further that JonBenét's feet were still sticking out
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from the blanket from the bottom of the blanket. And I believe Linda Arndt told someone to
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cover up the feet as well. So, they took a Colorado Avalanche, you know, the hockey team.
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They either took a hockey sweater or or a sweatshirt and placed it over the feet
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of the body. So, what that means to the layperson, basically any hairs, fibers, anything like that that could
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have been on that blanket could have been on that sweatshirt or sweater now is on could be on her body and or
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clothing. Yeah. So, it's just it's just truly a mess. Now, shortly after John signs this consent to
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search form the Ramsey's leave their home. They go to stay with the Fernie's. Remember we
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discussed the Fernie's, they showed up early that morning to the Ramsey home. Yeah. This
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uh the Ramsey's going to the Fernie's includes John's older children, John Andrew Ramsey and Melinda
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Ramsey and her boyfriend as well. Now, sometime that afternoon John Ramsey calls and requests a visit from Michael
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Bynum who is reported to be John Ramsey's close friend and a corporate attorney.
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It is during this visit so Michael Bynum, he agrees to this visit and it's during this visit that
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same afternoon that John hires Michael Bynum to represent him and Mr. Bynum advises the Ramsey's at
00:12:19
that time that they need to get additional attorneys. Right, but you're I think you're missing one step.
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He actually got a call. Their lawyer got a call. He wasn't hired at the time. But that's why he suggested that
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John gets lawyer because he got a call from a contact that he had inside the police
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department that said they're just trying to make this about you guys and that's it.
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And and that's when he suggested, you need to get a lawyer. On December 26th, 1996 at the home of John and Patsy
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Ramsey this is from the report. These are the words of pathologist John E. Meyer, M.D.
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He says the body of the 6-year-old female was first seen by me after I was called to
00:13:07
an address identified as 755 15th Street in Boulder, Colorado. I arrived at the scene approximately
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8:00 p.m. and entered the house where the decedent's body was located at approximately 8:20 p.m. I initially
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viewed the body in the living room of the house. The decedent was lying on her back on the floor covered by a blanket
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and a Colorado Avalanche sweatshirt. On removing these two items from the top of
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the body, the decedent was found to be lying on her back with her arms extended up over her head. The head was turned to
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the right. A brief examination of the body disclosed a ligature around the neck and a ligature around the right
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wrist. Also noted was a small area of abrasion or contusion below the right ear on the lateral aspect of the right
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cheek. A prominent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck. After examining the body, I left the
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residence at approximately 8:30 p.m. At 10:45 p.m. on December 26th the body of 6-year-old JonBenét Ramsey
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is removed from the family's home. Before we move on to December 27th, Captain, I want to make sure that I
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point out here in regards to contamination of the body that it has been noted by several
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people. This is not one of these items that's in dispute or up for debate. This is across the board.
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John Ramsey, Patricia Ramsey, Linda Arndt and Fleet White all touched the body before it was examined. Right. And John
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Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey touched the body several times. I'm not pointing that out to indicate
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guilt or to indicate that the Ramsey's were trying to cover something up. I think it would be a 100% natural
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reaction to want to go to your child to touch your child. I'm just pointing it out for the the
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purpose of evidentiary value. Yeah, I mean, it compromises the scene. We're not saying that it's to cover up
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anything. It compromises the scene. And um and then we also know where we're starting from. So, the following is from
00:15:22
Steve Thomas's book. This is Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation. Steve Thomas was one of the leading
00:15:30
detectives on the case. This is from page 41. And it says, "It was the morning of
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December 27th. The little body was first removed from a locked yellow outer covering, then from an inner black bag.
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The paper sacks were removed from the hands and feet and Meyer, remember he is the pathologist, began describing his
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findings. The victim weighed 45 lb, was 3 ft 11 in tall and had green eyes and some green
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garland was caught in her blonde hair. A single loop of white cord was around her
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right wrist tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the doctor easily slid it free. There were 15 half inches between
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that loop and a loop on the other end which once apparently had bound the left wrist. A white cord of the same type was
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wrapped so tightly around the throat and neck that a deep horizontal furrow had been dug into the skin.
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A gold chain and cross were tangled in that ligature which was tied behind the neck to a
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broken stick. Blonde hair was snared in the knot and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord which
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was tied more like a noose than a twisting garrote. The broken paintbrush used as the
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garrote handle had Korea printed on it. When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found
00:17:02
that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers although doing so created an
00:17:09
issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes separate and sterile clippers
00:17:16
should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same
00:17:23
clippers on different autopsy subjects. Well, that's that's amazing. Great job there. Captain, we could go through the
00:17:30
entire autopsy. Uh I want to kind of go through and cherry-pick some items. But to do the entire autopsy would be
00:17:40
an exhausting process. It's over 3,000 words long. So, I point that out one to not be lazy
00:17:49
about it but to point out that it was and appears to be a thorough document constructed by pathologist Meyer. Mhm.
00:18:00
Cherry-picking some items here at the top of the report, Captain, we have name Ramsey, JonBenét. I just want to say
00:18:05
real quickly, if if you're not willing to take the time to have different clippers on each
00:18:12
finger I would assume there's some kind of protocol. Uh let's just if we're going to start with that
00:18:19
conversation then and yes, it's 3,000 words I don't know if that means it's thorough. I just meant the document. I
00:18:27
said it was a thorough document, not a thorough examination. The thing here with these
00:18:32
autopsies that gets difficult is you're solely relying usually on one individual to handle this process
00:18:43
properly. As you're pointing out here follow protocol. And protocol varies depending on what
00:18:50
county you're in, what city you're in, what state you're in. Mhm. It's I hate to say this, but it truly is a
00:18:58
bit of a willy-nilly process. It's one of those situations where you question the science of it because it's human
00:19:05
error and it's and it can be laziness. It can be a number of different things. Yeah, and it
00:19:12
can be opinion-based. Correct. And the other thing too is you know, I I had a discussion once with
00:19:18
with some people and they said, "Well, there were multiple hairs found on the body
00:19:23
from different sources and that means that there were multiple killers." And I said, "Well, not necessarily. We've done
00:19:30
enough of these cases to realize that that random hairs and fibers can end up on people for a number of different
00:19:36
reasons that are innocent nature." Right. But to further that along in the way that
00:19:43
the way that I connect this to this conversation is I've reviewed at least two cases where
00:19:50
later we learned that one of the hairs found on the body came from the body bag that the body was placed into and it
00:19:58
wasn't cleaned properly. Or it was a county that was quite poor and they're just reusing body bags all the time. The
00:20:05
report states at the top the name of the decedent is Ramsey JonBenét, date of birth August 6th, 1990, age 6,
00:20:14
sex female, autopsy number 96A155. Death date and time December 26th, 1996 13:23. So
00:20:26
1:23 p.m. This is interesting. They have to well, I guess they don't have to, but
00:20:34
per protocol are supposed to put a time of death on this form whether they come up with an actual time of
00:20:41
death or not. And in this situation 1:23 p.m. is put on this document because that's
00:20:50
considered to be the agreed upon time that the body was in the living room. Mhm. We know she
00:20:57
didn't die at 1:23 p.m. And in fact, there was no real time of death that was truly established in this case.
00:21:07
Steve Thomas says that the detectives were told to work with a window of 1:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m.
00:21:15
And then he kind of backs into that a little bit and shrinks that window based off of some information we know to
00:21:22
be true. The 911 call comes in before 6:00 a.m. So you can go ahead and take away 6:00
00:21:28
to 7:00. Now you're left with 1:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. Right. I like that and I do like
00:21:37
you're going to hear me question Steve Thomas's actions and and theories and and how he
00:21:43
came up with some stuff as we move forward. But I want to point out that personally I find his investigation to
00:21:52
be interesting in in a sense that there are pieces of it that seem incredibly thorough.
00:21:58
Where even on the timeline of the day when the body's found, he has multiple times for when people arrived to the
00:22:05
house inside his report and inside his notes. Some people point out what a terrible job. This detective has
00:22:12
multiple times for the same people arriving to the house. It this can't be an accurate document.
00:22:19
Right. Steve Thomas never claims for that to be an accurate document. What he's saying is I've talked to everybody.
00:22:25
Somebody tells me person A arrives at this time and then somebody else tells me person A arrived at that time. Until
00:22:30
I can prove what time that person arrived, I'm leaving both in my report and in my notes. Both are correct. So I
00:22:37
I find that portion to be well done on on Mr. Thomas's behalf. Yeah, because like you said, I mean he's
00:22:44
not just going, "Okay, well I talked to this person I talked to this person and I believe this person more." Right.
00:22:50
He's just saying He's leaving it on there until he can prove other otherwise. Yeah. And
00:22:55
where I find it a little tricky though is when we have the time of death, when he's discussing what he believes or what
00:23:04
he claims the detectives believe to be the time of death. Uh-huh. I find that I his theory and the
00:23:10
detectives theory kind of wiggle that theory gets wiggled into their time of death and the window that they create.
00:23:19
You know, they're making assumptions that I think are s- very dangerous to make in this investigation. One being that
00:23:29
they say, "Okay, well, we're told to work with this window of 1:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. We know that it was before
00:23:34
6:00 a.m. because of the 911 call. We've shrunk the window a little bit." They they want to shrink this window.
00:23:40
And I I we need that window to be much smaller than that. We need that window to be
00:23:45
shrunken. Yes. So we can really get an idea of what happened and who needs to be accounted for during that time. The
00:23:53
thing that I believe that they do that's dangerous to the investigation is they make the assumption that the the ransom
00:23:59
letter was penned after the death. And that the letter writing process would take a
00:24:07
certain amount of time and thus they can shrink the window even more. Have you wrote the letter out yourself?
00:24:14
I have not, but if I sit down and try to write it with my left hand instead of my
00:24:18
right, it's going to take me even longer. Right. But I mean do you have like just a guess of how long do you
00:24:23
think it would take you to copy? Well, you say copy, but there's a chance that the author was was writing it from,
00:24:32
you know scratch, right. Yeah, that they're coming up with it. And here's the other thing. How many
00:24:36
times did they how many practice letters could there be? You know, there are multiple pages
00:24:41
ripped out from that pad of paper. Mhm. Uh I believe it's three that they were able to determine that there were three
00:24:49
pieces of paper missing between where they believe the the page one of the letter came from and the rough draft,
00:24:57
let's call it, with the misses and misses or um Mr. and Mrs. I at the top of the
00:25:02
page. Right, but what I think people should do is pull out a couple sheets of paper and copy it. Start by copying it.
00:25:11
That gives you some kind of time frame. It's that's under 5 minutes. So yes, it's it's a lot different to
00:25:17
create one from scratch, but if the perpetrator brought that note with them under 5 minutes to copy it. Yeah, over 8
00:25:25
hours if you have to sit down and watch Ransom, Dirty Harry and Speed. Mhm. When you're doing conducting
00:25:33
that they didn't find those tapes at the scene of the crime. Right. Hey, you're right, a portable, remember those old TV
00:25:40
VCR combos? Yeah, black and white. Yeah, that it that the perp brought it with them. All
00:25:45
right, so we're we're we're getting getting off track here. Uh final diagnosis tox studies
00:25:52
blood ethanol non detected, blood drug screen no drugs detected. Final diagnosis, cause of death of the
00:26:00
6-year-old female is asphyxia by strangulation associated with cranio-cerebral trauma.
00:26:26
Cheers to you, Captain. I'm raising a big big glass of Christmas bomb 2019 by the awesome folks at Prairie Artisan
00:26:33
Ales Garage Grade four out of five bottle caps. Thanks to everyone who has donated to the beer fund. And I don't
00:26:41
mean just this week, I mean all year long. Yeah, for the last however many years you keep the lights on
00:26:48
and you keep beer in the fridge. Well, in our mouths as well. Picking up where we left off here, Captain
00:26:56
to put it quite frankly Mhm. just to muddy the waters even more in this case, we have
00:27:03
basically two causes of death declared by Mr. Myers, M.D. A term that we will probably be
00:27:09
discussing quite a bit. I want to describe this to everyone just so we're all on the same page as we move
00:27:16
forward. The term will be garrote. The general consensus being here that a garrote can be made out of many
00:27:26
different materials including ropes, cable ties, fishing lines, nylon, guitar strings, telephone cord or piano wire,
00:27:34
anything of that type of nature. A stick may be used to tighten the garrote. This
00:27:40
is a Spanish word which actually refers to the stick itself. In Spanish, the term may also refer to a
00:27:47
rope and stick used to constrict a limb. This basically is a popular murder weapon
00:27:55
and for sadist, it's a torture device. It's unfortunately a term that we've used many times on
00:28:04
this show. Continuing with our exam here, Captain the decedent is clothed in a long-sleeved white knit collarless
00:28:11
shirt. The chest area contains an embroidered silver star with silver sequins. Tied loosely around the right wrist
00:28:20
overlying the sleeve of the shirt is a white cord. At the knot, there is one tail end which
00:28:28
measures 5.5 inches in length with a frayed end. The other tail of the knot measures 15.5 inches in length
00:28:38
and ends in a double loop knot. This end of the cord is also frayed. There are no defects noted in the shirt,
00:28:47
but the upper right sleeve contains a dried brown stain 2.5 by 1.5 inches believed to be from
00:28:56
the nose or mouth. There are long white underwear with an elastic waistband containing a red and
00:29:04
blue stripe. The long underwear are urine stained over the crotch area and legs.
00:29:10
Beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed rosebuds and the word Wednesday on the elastic waistband.
00:29:20
The underwear is urine stained and the inner aspect of the crotch are several red areas of staining measuring up to
00:29:29
0.5 inches maximum dimension. To touch on this what we've just reviewed here, Captain
00:29:37
the in regards to the urine this is a big big thing in this case. Because what we would learn very early
00:29:45
in the investigation from the Ramsey's housekeeper is that JonBenét was known to wet the
00:29:53
bed quite frequently as well. Her statement to detectives was that often when she
00:29:59
would come in in the morning that Patsy would have already stripped the bed placing the sheets in the washer
00:30:07
and then when the housekeeper would get there, you know, she'd transfer them to the dryer, sheets are dried and then
00:30:12
apply them back the bed and this was at times a daily routine. I believe her statement was that this
00:30:20
was a daily routine leading up to about 30 or 40 days before the murder. And it had just kind of gone away. It
00:30:28
was almost like JonBenét had uh grown up from that that she was no longer wetting the bed. I might be
00:30:35
mistaken, but I think at one point she was not wetting the bed and then she started wetting the bed again. That's
00:30:41
exactly right. That's the same thing that I heard and I believe that was the statement from the housekeeper.
00:30:48
The detectives also found Pull-Ups, you know, like the they're they're not quite
00:30:52
diapers. They're for older children. Yeah, I wear them. I I wear them to concerts so I don't
00:30:59
have to take a break to go to the bathroom. I don't want to miss anything. Now I wear them when I'm in the garage.
00:31:05
There were Pull-Ups found in the home. And there was some question if JonBenét was known to wear these. I'm guessing
00:31:13
that she would. I don't see why Pull-Ups would remain in the house when you have children that are 9 and 6
00:31:19
years old. Just look at the pictures of their house, man. It's a mess. That's true. They
00:31:25
It's a hot mess. Yes. One of the the reason why we point this out here is that one of the big theories that has
00:31:32
lasted all these years is that JonBenét wet the bed that night and in you know anger anger in impulsive
00:31:42
reaction Patsy freaks or hits her over the head with something and it's this all came about because she wet the
00:31:53
bed once again. Right. And Patsy had just been through it all and this was the final straw. She lost it.
00:32:01
Didn't mean to hurt or kill her child, but that's what she did. And then It's like potty training abuse.
00:32:09
It's It's actually pretty common. Like the even people that wouldn't you want to think would hit their kids
00:32:16
or be violent towards their kids they can be if the kid is not being potty trained correctly or or is not able to
00:32:24
do such, right? So, we have to address this because we do have in the autopsy report from the external
00:32:33
examination that there was urine on the clothing. Mhm. I do want to point this out though.
00:32:40
We should be clear here that this could have come about at any time. It doesn't necessarily mean that she
00:32:48
100% wet the bed that night. No. This could have She could have She could have wet herself during an attack.
00:32:55
That's extremely common. She could have wet herself after, you know, in death. Yeah.
00:33:01
So, to point to that and say, "Hey, she had to have wet the bed and this is the only This is the explanation we've come
00:33:08
up with due to that fact." Again, I think that's a dangerous assumption to make in this
00:33:14
investigation. To further this out a little more and you know, I hate to I hate to throw the
00:33:22
warning out there that it's going to get a little gross because it seems only sensible because we are discussing
00:33:30
an autopsy, but Mhm. Or the fact that our show is called True Crime Garage. In in the uh
00:33:38
when discussing her wetting the bed, there's also reports that she has defecated in the bed
00:33:46
before multiple times. Mhm. There's also statements that Burke would defecate in JonBenét's bed.
00:33:56
Mhm. I don't know either one of those two be true. It seems to me like the one that we can
00:34:03
really hang our hat on here that seems to be the most true is the bed wetting situation.
00:34:09
This is brought up by multiple people. Mhm. And the the other bit I I can't say for certain that
00:34:18
that I believe either one of those. Now what would be pointed out during this investigation and these aren't my words
00:34:25
but bed wetting, defecating in the bed, things of that nature, it was pointed out that sometimes that is what you
00:34:33
would see when somebody is being molested. Not only molested, but usually when they're being molested by somebody
00:34:41
within the home or within the family. The reason for that is that in those situations
00:34:50
sometimes the victim will do that consciously or unconsciously subconsciously, whatever it is
00:34:58
Mhm. because they want to appear less desirable or gross to the perpetrator. Some was a way of
00:35:08
protecting themselves. Correct. That I point that out because that is one of the theories as well in this
00:35:16
case. I also want to state 100% that there's never been any evidence before or after
00:35:24
the murder of JonBenét Ramsey that John or Patsy had that they were ever involved in any
00:35:33
paraphilia at all. Yeah, cuz let's be clear on something. They searched their house. I think they actually called it
00:35:41
There was one magazine that called this murder kiddie porn murder. And they searched the house for porn and
00:35:48
they did not find any. Right. So, and then there's also a rumor that they had all these
00:35:54
um books uh or one of the books on in their study was opened up to incest or something like that. I believe it was
00:36:05
that a dictionary Yeah. that the word incest was marked in a dictionary. I question that one too, Captain,
00:36:13
because that's one of those ones that you hear in more salacious reports on this case. Mhm. I really
00:36:20
question I feel like that would be a a more well-known fact if it was a fact. What we What we do know as a fact is
00:36:29
they didn't find any pornography in the house. Right. And to top that off, these both
00:36:35
parents have other children. There's you know, there's never been any any complaints by any of the other
00:36:42
children that that Patsy or John was ever involved in anything like that. Mhm. And to further that out even more,
00:36:50
we have Melinda on record multiple times saying her father just wouldn't be capable of such an act and that he
00:36:58
be it murder or molestation. Mhm. While we're on the subject though of the bed wetting situation, one thing that I
00:37:06
did find particularly strange in this case and this is well reported, too that JonBenét Ramsey had 27 doctor
00:37:16
visits in the course of the 3 years leading up to her death. On an average, that puts her at like
00:37:22
nine a year. Mhm. That's a crazy amount. The doctor when asked about this states that
00:37:33
that was for the the pediatrician states that these were for all normal reasons.
00:37:38
She did have some sinus issues, I guess, that would be cause for reoccurring visits.
00:37:44
I also wonder, too. We know the situation of the accidental time when Burke hit her in the face with
00:37:52
the in the face Yeah. in the face. in the face Mhm. That in itself though, I want to
00:37:59
point out just just something like that requires multiple doctor visits. I was looking for like a uh a
00:38:05
a straight-up list. Well, yeah, you'd have if there was stitches, you have stitches, then you have to remove the
00:38:10
stitches. Well, we know that she went to a a Yeah, we know that she went to a plastic
00:38:15
surgeon. Like So, just like you pointed out there, that that starts with an initial doctor
00:38:21
visit, referral to somebody, consultation, the the surgery, a follow-up. Right there you have four out
00:38:28
of the 27. Well, and you have a stay-at-home mom. So, I I think yeah, maybe for people
00:38:33
that are everybody's working and there's not a lot of money little things you just going to let go.
00:38:41
But when you have the time to take your daughter in for every little thing and you have the money to cover it I I don't
00:38:48
think that's unreasonable. External evidence of injury located just below the right ear at the right angle of the
00:38:55
mandible 1.5 inches below the right external auditorial canal is a small rust colored abrasion. In the
00:39:04
lateral aspect of the left lower eyelid is petechial hemorrhaging. I'm going to skip some portions of this
00:39:13
autopsy report, Captain, because there are multiple pages that go through all of these
00:39:19
petechial hemorrhaging and all the hemorrhaging that takes place. We know that we've already discussed it
00:39:25
strangulation was involved and anybody that's listened to this show or other true crime shows knows that hemorrhaging
00:39:32
occurs during those types of situations. But to specifically describe some of the report here
00:39:42
this part I believe to be important. Wrapped around the neck with a double knot in the midline of the posterior
00:39:49
neck is a length of white cord similar to that described as being tied around the right wrist. This ligature cord is
00:39:57
cut on the right side of the neck and removed. A single black ink mark is placed on the left side of the cut and a
00:40:05
double black ink mark on the right side of the cut. Okay, so that portion of that last two sentences of his report
00:40:13
are describing the pathologist's actions. Mhm. He's saying I removed it by cutting it and then I placed markers
00:40:20
indicating where the cuts took place. The knot is left intact. Extending from the knot on the neck are two tails of
00:40:29
the knot, one measuring 4 in in length and having a frayed end and the other measuring 17 in in length with the end
00:40:37
tied in multiple loops around a tan brown wooden stick, which measures 4.5 in in length.
00:40:44
This wooden stick is irregularly broken at both ends and there are several colors of paint and varnish on the
00:40:51
surface. Right. Printed in gold letters on one end of the wooden stick is the word Korea.
00:40:58
The tail end of the other word extends from beneath the loops of the cord tied around the stick and is not able to be
00:41:07
interpreted. Blond hair is entwined in the knot and in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick. It appears to be made
00:41:15
of white synthetic material. Also secured around the neck is a gold chain with a single charm in the form of a
00:41:23
cross. Examination of the right extremities is unremarkable. On the middle finger of
00:41:29
the right hand is a yellow metal band. Around the right wrist is a yellow metal identification bracelet with the name
00:41:38
JonBenét on one side and the date 12/25/96 on the other side. This was a gift from her aunt. Mhm. I
00:41:49
believe from Patsy's sister. And I mean just There's these little sad, heartbreaking points in this case
00:41:58
all along the way that just remind you of the pure innocence of this little girl. And you
00:42:04
know, she Here she is wearing a gift that she just very recently received and was probably very excited
00:42:12
to wear this piece of jewelry that she received from her aunt. I mean, it's just it breaks your heart. I also think
00:42:18
it's not clear in this case on how brutal this attack was and that this garrote,
00:42:25
the way it was set up, it almost looked like you'd put a human on a leash and then you'd be pushing their head
00:42:32
down as you pulled the the garrote back. It's truly horrifying. Mhm. I don't think that there's any
00:42:41
documentary out there that has I don't know what the right word is here, Captain, but
00:42:49
I want to say bothered to describe how horrific it would have been. these injuries are.
00:42:57
Mhm. They almost make it sound like it's Sleeping Beauty lying in a windowless room in the basement.
00:43:04
And that's not the situation at all. There There's If anybody that's seen the pictures read the descriptions
00:43:12
and we're going through them. Here you hear the the the medical speak. Mhm. Jargon.
00:43:20
And it just sounds like textbook [ __ ] But really in lay terms, it was it's a horrific attack on a on a tiny little
00:43:29
person. Yeah, there's actually two marks on the neck, one at the lower part of the neck.
00:43:34
And then at some point that became free and it they go in deeper. And there's actually a couple pictures
00:43:41
that you can see how deep the the rope goes around her throat. It almost disappears. Yeah. And the line
00:43:50
that it left at the midline of the throat Mhm. after the fact. Yeah. I mean, it's it looks like somebody took a
00:43:59
maroon marker, a maroon Sharpie and just drew a line across somebody's neck. That's how
00:44:05
deep it looked like it was the cord was going into the neck. Mhm. There was a red ink line drawing in the
00:44:14
form of a heart that was found located on the palm of JonBenét's left hand. The fingernails of
00:44:21
both hands are of sufficient length for clipping and we already discussed that they
00:44:27
used the same clippers to clip all of the fingernails. Now, you said that there was no
00:44:32
nothing found underneath the nails, but I thought there was some DNA and possibly some blood that was found
00:44:40
underneath the right hand's finger fingernails saying that showing that she struggled with somebody at some point.
00:44:47
You're correct. There are multiple reports on this detail of the investigation. The bit that I gave you was Steve
00:44:56
Thomas's report. Mhm. One of the leading detectives. So, I don't know what is the
00:45:04
real true answer. What I find interesting is that he follows up his report by saying
00:45:12
we later learned that the all the fingernails were clipped with the using the same clippers. Right.
00:45:18
Again, I think that points to his thoroughness of saying whether this is right or wrong, this is
00:45:24
what happened. Yeah, whether it's right or wrong, this is what happened and then
00:45:27
to to add to the weight of that question everything because this also happened. Right.
00:45:35
What's the best way to describe the the cuz there was some I don't want to use the word damage to
00:45:44
the vaginal area. Mhm. I don't think that damage is the right word. Well, would you say indication of
00:45:55
I've actually seen this disputed multiple ways. One claims that there there's evidence
00:46:01
that there was at least some kind of touching to the vagina area. Digital manipulation.
00:46:10
Yeah, at the time of death. And then they also use the word chronic. Now, when you hear the word chronic, you
00:46:16
think, "Oh, well, this is weeks, months." time. No, this was this term would have
00:46:21
made sense to meaning that there was something that happened to her um days in advance uh one of the
00:46:29
medical examiners thought that this would happen basically most likely a individual putting
00:46:37
their finger inside of her vagina. On the 22nd or the 23rd. Now, other medical examiners have stated
00:46:47
that some of this bruising could be due to hygiene. The bedwetting. The irritation of
00:46:54
The irritation, yeah. of having urine-stained clothing on the skin right up against the skin for
00:47:00
Well, sometimes they get period of time. you get rashes and so then a mother would use um they would get some kind of
00:47:07
medication to put on the rash. And you could then you know, that's where you could get
00:47:14
some digital What do they call it? Well, I think to put it pretty as clean as we
00:47:19
can would be to say that the reports out there state everything from chronic molestation
00:47:28
to something as little as uh irritated skin that could come from urine-stained clothes or Right, but
00:47:37
let's be clear about this. vigorous wiping Right, but let's be clear about this chronic molestation.
00:47:42
This is not There was no signs of There's There's no scar tissues to prove that she was molested for weeks and
00:47:51
months and years. Not true. We're talking about the time of her death and probably
00:47:58
once a couple days before. That's all they prove. It also seems like there was wood fragments found in her
00:48:08
vagina as well. I didn't personally see that in Dr. Meyer's report. Yeah, I think I saw that from Lou Smit.
00:48:16
He does reference um fibers Okay. as well. So again, with this with this area of the body, it's it's
00:48:26
really it's up for to debate, really. Depending on who you talk to, this represents any
00:48:34
number of things. What I feel that I've seen and heard the most, so I'm going to
00:48:39
throw this in the batch of general consensus would be that just as you pointed out
00:48:45
that this is something that occurred either at the time of death or shortly before
00:48:50
and it could be anything from as terrible as digital manipulation or something uh
00:48:57
more vigorous wiping or hygiene. I I'm ruling all that out. What most of the medical examiners state
00:49:10
is that that the the choking, which people so haphazardly want to say is covering up for
00:49:19
for something. Right? That the that the choking of JonBenét was is after the fact and therefore
00:49:28
it's covering up an accident. No. The choking was not an accident. It It on purpose.
00:49:36
It was not meant to kill her. It was meant for sexual gratification. So, if you have a
00:49:44
they believe that there was molestation at the time of her death. And I I think that's that needs to be
00:49:51
fact. to me. Because it's like you don't have one or the other. And a lot of people think because there
00:50:00
wasn't penetration with like a penis that the individual would be um more likely to be a younger.
00:50:12
Or a crazed or disorganized offender. You typically see that Right. in those types of
00:50:19
of murder cases. So, the report says a 1 cm red purple area of abrasion is located on
00:50:27
the right posterioral Sorry, I'm going to struggle with some of these words here, Captain. Posterior
00:50:33
lateral area of the 1 by 1 cm hymenal orifice. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending
00:50:43
clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions. The area of abrasion is present at approximately the 7:00
00:50:52
position and appears to involve the hymen and distal right lateral vaginal wall.
00:51:00
Mhm. We say all that to point out that it the that's basically saying there's a small
00:51:05
amount of damage or injury to that area. Yeah, bruising. Yeah. One thing that is completely shocking
00:51:13
in this whole case to shocking to me, Captain. Mhm. Is that it appears that Linda Arndt
00:51:21
the pathologist who arrived on the 26th to examine the body at the Ramsey's home
00:51:29
and then several other people as well that nobody realized that this poor girl had been struck
00:51:36
over the head. Yeah. It's It's almost like it took further detection that it wasn't You know, you
00:51:43
have the shocking scene of the garrote of the cord wrapped around this little girl's throat.
00:51:49
Mhm. Maybe it's the shock factor and you you you don't see what what might have been obvious, but all the reports I've
00:51:57
read and stop me if you've read any that that are different. But, it sounds as if this head wound,
00:52:04
which this was a massive injury and we'll get into the details of it, but it sounds like sight scene
00:52:12
unnoticed. Right. Yeah, well, there's no blood. It's not like massive pools of blood.
00:52:19
Right. And she had long blonde hair. I believe it was Was she two two pigtails or ponytails, whatever they call that?
00:52:28
Well, yeah, I mean, that I If you've ever seen one of your buddies like hit their head, especially when they have
00:52:33
blonde hair it turns bloody real real quick. Right, but what I'm getting at is I
00:52:39
don't know how much blood there was. There wasn't. Right. And I don't know I would like to have a
00:52:46
pathologist or a doctor sit down with me and tell me the reasons why there's no blood. Obviously, one, she's already
00:52:56
dead or near death at the time. Yeah, that's what most medical examiners when they look at this say, "Look, there's a
00:53:03
lack of blood, so we they believe and all all the credible ones, the most credible ones that I've seen with this
00:53:10
case state she was choked. It was sexually It's for sexual gratification. The perpetrator was
00:53:19
choking her either trying to touch her. Now, that would be random, that wouldn't
00:53:25
be as much. Most likely they were touching themselves while they're strangling her.
00:53:31
Uh she There's defensive wounds around her neck meaning she was trying to stop the choking.
00:53:38
At some point, some people believe they would have cut off the blood circulation
00:53:43
to her brain. Um and there's some signs of that. They they believe through the autopsy.
00:53:51
And so, I I can't remember what they call it, but it's basically where you're dead.
00:53:59
Um And it's it happens almost instantaneously. Mhm. Yeah. And so, they they also believe
00:54:06
that, you know, normally if somebody's trying to strangle somebody in order to kill them, there's
00:54:13
a lot of marks that are left like inside the neck muscles, there's strains. Uh different bones and stuff possibly
00:54:22
could be broken within the neck. And none of that is seen here. That's why they believe
00:54:29
that these these bruises within side the vagina are from molestation because the
00:54:37
evidence of the choking doesn't Like I said, it doesn't seem like the purpose of the choking
00:54:43
was to kill her. It was to control her. So, where it gets a little convoluted is
00:54:51
a lot of medical examiners think that during this sexual gratification that the perpetrator then
00:55:00
uh either freaked out or or got into it too much and hit her over the head with something.
00:55:09
Now, other people believe that the perpetrator knew that they that she was dead because they also there's also
00:55:18
a temporal lobe bruising in the brain. And that's common when somebody is when somebody shakes somebody after death.
00:55:28
Right. And so, somebody chokes her, doesn't mean to kill her shakes her she's dead.
00:55:36
And then I think I believe that's when the the blow to the head happened. Because at that point the heart has
00:55:47
stopped, it won't be pumping blood to the to the brain. That would be one of the reasons why we wouldn't have pools
00:55:53
of blood everywhere. That is one reason. The other reason could be two is do we How much broken skin do we actually have
00:56:02
with this strike? Right. And the the interesting thing here, too, is the the use of the garrote
00:56:11
in the manner that it was used very likely could suggest that it's it's not only a torture device, but it's also
00:56:18
a sexual assault device. Mhm. Where you're using it because that's what this this
00:56:26
sicko is into. And sometimes, we see this a lot in a lot of cases that we've covered,
00:56:31
especially with serials that they will often choke someone almost to the point of death and then
00:56:39
allow them to receive air and then choke them again. Right. And they believe that
00:56:45
was happening with her because there there's signs of that for from the autopsy. But, let's let's be clear
00:56:52
that shows like CBS's documentary on this case it doesn't make any sense. You can't
00:57:00
start off with the idea of that there was a a blow to the head. You cannot start that off. They believe
00:57:11
this blow to the head would have made her brain dead. Should be unconscious minimum
00:57:18
and then because of the brain swell and the brain bleed should be brain dead. And what happens if you're unconscious
00:57:26
or you're brain dead? You do not put up a fight if somebody is choking you. Right. So, let's There's no
00:57:35
need to restrain the arms Right. from the perpetrator's perspective. Right. And I know a lot of people are
00:57:43
going to sit there and say, "Well, but but all that stuff is to cover up some kind of accident."
00:57:51
Let's be clear that CBS and everybody involved in that show were irresponsible for putting out that information. It's
00:58:00
just factually not correct. And if you want to I don't advise that you do this cuz you might have nightmares about
00:58:07
this, but go look go look at pictures of JonBenét Ramsey's neck and see all those
00:58:12
half moons of that 6-year-old girl trying to stop somebody from strangling her. So, this idea that there was Burke
00:58:20
accidentally hit her on the head or that or that during uh changing of uh pajamas or changing of the sheets or
00:58:31
whatever that in JonBenét's bathroom. Right. That that that she slipped and hit her head.
00:58:36
Or got tossed across the room by her mother or struck over the head with a flashlight. Right.
00:58:42
To the credit, I guess, of the of the people that believe Burke may have killed his little sister via an accident
00:58:50
or whatever. The skull fracture, to me, does look like it could have came by way of golf club.
00:59:00
It I mean, it there's I If anybody looks at that picture and says "Nah, I wouldn't think a golf club
00:59:07
could make that." Well, yeah, cuz that's strike. I would I would go Well, then you're you you need
00:59:11
to go get glasses, my friend. Right. Because it straight up in the dimensions. So, let's describe this
00:59:19
because not everybody's going to be fully aware of of this. The fracture the skull fracture
00:59:25
is huge. It measures 8 in in length. And the way that this works out is she would have been struck on the
00:59:35
top of her head, but it's more to the right side. side of her head, yeah. Yeah. And the
00:59:41
the fracture runs from where the where the impact hit on the skull, and it runs all the way forward. Yeah. And then what
00:59:51
you have at the top where the impact took place, you actually have a full section that
00:59:58
broke off. It it runs 8 in in length total, but from where the point of impact what we have here is picture a
01:00:06
skull where you have a crack that runs down the majority of the right side of the skull. Uh-huh. At the top of that
01:00:13
crack where it stops, you have a basically a rectangle shaped piece of the skull that fully
01:00:21
broke off on all four sides. And that piece itself is quite small. I believe it's 1 and 1/2 in by
01:00:30
1/2 in. Yeah. But that's that's the rectangle there, and then from there you have uh you
01:00:36
would have your remaining so it'd be 6 and 1/2 in of a fracture that runs from that broken piece there.
01:00:43
Yeah, and and and cops were looking for this this possibility as well. Maybe not so
01:00:50
much a golf club, but it did look into that Burke had a bat. And then they did some tests and then
01:00:57
realized they don't believe that would happen through a bat. Not saying that the cops were saying that Burke hit her
01:01:04
in the head, but they were looking for objects. Yeah. Uh then you have a bunch of tests done
01:01:11
on the flashlight. Again, I think that's it's reasonable to you see you have a bigger
01:01:17
opening, bigger fracture, then it goes to um thinner fracture. So maybe something like a a big
01:01:24
flashlight. It would definitely have like the weight to it to to be able to do to be able to create that that type of
01:01:33
fracture. But there's also a picture of crime scene picture that there's this It
01:01:39
almost looks like um one of the like a fireplace tool. That would also be like if I were to walk around someone's home
01:01:47
after seeing the the skull when the skin is pulled back and see the fracture itself, Uh-huh. if I were to walk around
01:01:53
anyone's home and like pick up instruments that I think could have could have made that impact and left
01:02:00
that mark Right. on her, left that fracture in that manner, I don't think I would go for flashlight.
01:02:07
I'm not saying it's impossible. I wouldn't go for flashlight, wouldn't go for bat. Anything that's kind of rounded
01:02:12
doesn't seem to make sense to me. I see something where you you need like you need something where you're almost
01:02:19
seeing the like that broken piece of the skull is the outline of whatever hit her.
01:02:26
And that to me would be like a yeah, like a fireplace tool or a golf club, anything like that.
01:02:33
Right, but if you look through the crime scene It's 100%. It has to be you know, the the the markings of what
01:02:40
hit her. Yeah, if a object hit her. Um It had to have hit her. Look at the I mean Well, let me finish my thought.
01:02:47
Sorry. So first if you look at the crime scene photos, there there it looks like some kind of
01:02:54
fireplace tool. I don't know what you call those, but it's right under the Aren't those the poker things that you
01:03:00
like move the wood around? some people have like the the pokers and then they have the brushes and then they
01:03:05
have the uh shovels and and they have all different kinds of things. Okay. Right?
01:03:11
It looks like there's one and it's underneath the open window where the suitcase is. And you'd have to
01:03:19
go through there's tons of crime scene photos, but you have to go through and you can see it laying on the ground.
01:03:24
Now, I can't it's blurry. I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I go well, we know where the we know where
01:03:30
the paintbrush handle came from. It came from that room. Right. That that was used in the garrote. Uh we
01:03:37
know that at some point she was in that suitcase because we have all these uh fibers from her clothes that are in that
01:03:47
suitcase. So they were going to use Well, you you can say you know that. I won't I won't be on board with that one.
01:03:54
I'm not not convinced that she was in the suitcase. Okay, but what we do have is a suitcase with a bunch of fibers
01:04:00
from the clothes that she was wearing that night. So Well, again, I don't know that they were
01:04:05
the clothes that she was wearing that night. The Well, that's the report I that I saw. Again, but that and I'm not
01:04:12
sure I don't I don't want to sound like I'm challenging you here. I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying
01:04:16
the information I've reviewed doesn't state that same stuff. Right, but right where that suitcase where that suitcase
01:04:24
is. Correct. Underneath that open window, there's a crime scene photo that has some kind of
01:04:30
object and I just want because police have stated we haven't found the object of what hit
01:04:38
her on the head. Right. And here's where this is what I question. Okay. It all has to work on some order. Like
01:04:47
Lou Smith Mhm. Keep calling him Smith. It's like his analysis of the the intruder theory
01:04:57
doesn't work. It starts with a stun gun. Well, what does the stun gun do? It incapacitates the person.
01:05:06
Renders them unconscious at some point, right? So Very likely too for a small person.
01:05:13
We're not talking about a full grown adult. We're talking about a very small child. And how long are they
01:05:20
incapacitated for? The this is what I would want to know. I I could Yeah, I don't think any of us
01:05:26
can say because there's differing you know, there's varying degrees of even these stun guns. But just his analysis,
01:05:32
it doesn't make any sense cuz if I go, "Okay, I'm going to go up to JonBenét's bedroom and I'm going to hit her with
01:05:38
this stun gun and that's what's going to allow me to take her downstairs." Okay.
01:05:44
At what point does she eat pineapple? So Well, we should be clear here for those that don't know. There was
01:05:52
um a substance found in JonBenét upon the the autopsy findings that suggests that she ate pineapple or
01:06:02
a substance that resembles pineapple shortly before her death. Right. It was undigested. Right. And then we have
01:06:10
crime scene photo photos that have a bowl of pineapple with milk, which I've never heard of. If my mother fed me
01:06:18
pineapple, it's just pineapple in a bowl. That's weird. I've heard of yogurt and
01:06:24
cottage cheese, but never milk. I think it's milk. Again, don't don't quote me on that, but
01:06:31
So but my thought is, okay, well, Lou Smit Lou Smit's Smit. intruder theory have
01:06:39
her get downstairs. She wakes up. She's supposed to be met by Santa Claus at some point. She goes downstairs. She
01:06:47
sits at the table. She makes herself some pineapple. Maybe she doesn't make herself some
01:06:53
pineapple. Maybe Burke made himself some pineapple, but he went to bed, he didn't finish it. So
01:06:59
then she sits there and decides, "I'll eat a piece of this." That's when the intruder would have to
01:07:06
come in contact with her. Right? Or I guess she could have woke up in the middle of night,
01:07:13
went downstairs, ate some pineapple, went back upstairs. It's possible. Uh then you use the stun gun, but again
01:07:21
the stun gun doesn't make any sense because once you start trying to control her with the garrote,
01:07:27
you need defensive wounds. I I do want to point out here though too, the purpose of the garrote may not be
01:07:35
Yes, it's control, but not in the manner that I think that some might be thinking.
01:07:40
It could be straight up for sexual assault Right. type of control. And I'm not going to go
01:07:47
into it too much. I mean, um maybe on off the record or something. I don't feel comfortable discussing what
01:07:54
the garrote itself could have been used for. The thing I will put my stamp on here
01:08:00
though, well, before we get into that, let's point out that where the stun gun idea comes into play is that there are
01:08:09
pictures. There were unfortunately or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you want to look at it. It's
01:08:15
incredibly degrading to the victims involved in this case, but autopsy photos were leaked to the press
01:08:23
Yeah. at some point. And you can view them online still to this day. Based off of that,
01:08:30
we have Lou Smit who later says, "Look, you see these two little what look like little prong marks?"
01:08:36
He said this these came from a stun gun. Now, you have other experts. You have Dr. Werner Spitz and I'm trying to think
01:08:43
of what he's most famous for. He's covered He's done so many different cases, but
01:08:48
Werner Spitz where our listeners would know him the best from would be from um West Memphis 3. He was the one that that
01:08:56
later viewed the photos and said, "Hey, these marks are bite marks from a from turtles." Mhm. So that that's that dude.
01:09:04
He says when he views these photographs, these are not stun gun marks. They're they're he would expect what he's
01:09:11
looking for is a stun gun basically is leaving an electrical burn type mark on the skin. Yeah, I And he says that what
01:09:19
he's seeing doesn't does not appear to be a burn to him. I don't see that on her back, the marks on her back that a
01:09:26
lot of people think are like maybe a train track set. Um which would have been in the room that
01:09:34
she possibly was molested in. That's the other thing, too. She has multiple scrapes and stuff on her back
01:09:42
and marks on her arms and stuff like that. Basically that she was squirming during the time that she was molested.
01:09:51
And so, could she got these marks on her back at that point? Yes. But the marks on her face,
01:09:57
to me, I see what looks like a burn between the two marks. And you would expect a good deal of struggle and
01:10:05
squirming if in fact she was being choked and there was some type of sexual assault
01:10:10
prior to death. Yeah. This is what I said I was going to put my stamp on here, Captain. Reviewing the
01:10:17
pictures of the skull, I don't know science. I'm not a pathologist. I'm not claiming to be an expert. You take this
01:10:24
for whatever you for what it is. It's it's some dumb guy in a garage giving his opinion. Wait. No, I should I should
01:10:31
go then. Should be my turn then. But what my opinion is based off of these photographs, Mhm. the damage to
01:10:39
the skull, man. I don't think that Burke would have had the strength, regardless of weapon,
01:10:48
to create this type of damage in one single blow. This looks to me to be one single solid hit to the skull. Mhm.
01:10:58
I also will go further and say I don't think and I've seen pictures of JonBenét's
01:11:05
bathroom. Mhm. The theory that Patsy lost control and threw her across the room and this
01:11:11
was some kind of head injury that occurred when she got thrown across the room or she hit her head on something
01:11:16
after being slapped by Patsy. I'm not saying that Patsy's innocent. What I'm saying is
01:11:22
this injury did not come from anything like that. In my opinion. This is a single strike,
01:11:29
a very violent strike to the head, single strike with with a lot of strength behind it, and a
01:11:36
lot of force behind it. The other thing I will say, too, I beg anyone to go out there and look up
01:11:45
the garrote or what they are calling a garrote in this case. Because what I see here, this is one of
01:11:53
those rare times in the case where you see some level of criminal sophistication. And what I mean by that
01:11:59
is this this weapon, this torture device here, Mhm. appears to me, this wasn't the first time
01:12:06
whoever constructed this, this was not the first time that they put one of these things together.
01:12:10
Well, most medical examiners call these not sophisticated. Yeah. These are not These aren't knots made by a 9-year-old.
01:12:20
When I look at this, what I see, if you I would love if somebody would take the pictures it like if I could go back and
01:12:26
unsee them and somebody could take away the words JonBenét Ramsey from the photographs Uh-huh. and just hand them
01:12:33
to me and go, "Oh, what's that What's this from? What do you think this is?" What I see there, Captain,
01:12:39
without anything clouding my vision, is an intricate torture device constructed for the sole purpose of
01:12:48
sexual assault. Yeah, it seems like most of the medical experts believe again, during this sexual assault,
01:12:58
during this torture, that this individual lost control and ended up hitting her on the head, but at
01:13:06
that point the brain wasn't pump the heart wasn't pumping to the brain already. Like that's a real thing, I
01:13:14
guess, during strangulation that that will stop first. And it slows it along the way. Yeah, and
01:13:22
then it's still the person's still alive, technically, but there's no blood or oxygen
01:13:29
pumping to the brain now. Meaning she'd be brain dead, they hit her on the head cuz they lost control or
01:13:36
it was part of their fantasy or whatever. I think that's a very good possibility.
01:13:41
But like I said, we have fibers, whether you want whether you want to believe this or not
01:13:46
because there's experts that contradict each other over and over. But there's fibers in that suitcase. And
01:13:53
my thought is that this individual, for whatever reason, the sexual gratification was going to be better for
01:14:01
them uh if they molested her inside the house, knowing that her family was there,
01:14:10
there was excitement there. Once they figured out she's dead, that wasn't part of the plan.
01:14:20
The ransom note's already sitting on the staircase. Right? Mhm. I have to get her out of here.
01:14:29
I am going to use the suitcase to transport her. I put her in the suitcase. At this
01:14:36
point, no blow to the head. I think it's possible that an individual put her in that suitcase
01:14:44
and tried to lift her up through that window and then dropped her. And landing on her head. Yes, yes, the
01:14:54
suitcase would hit first, but she's inside the suitcase. And I think that's possibly
01:15:00
what created um that fracture. You pointed out something that's very important in this case.
01:15:09
And just with every aspect of this case, there's so many different opinions. There's so many different even expert
01:15:17
opinions. And regarding the autopsy itself, cause of death, injuries to JonBenét, how those injuries occurred,
01:15:24
we've had many very reputable, good, solid experts over the years examine this case. But what they've examined
01:15:33
have been photographs. And what they've examined have been documents. There's only been one pathologist to examine the
01:15:40
body. Right. And that was Dr. Meyer, MD, in 1996. For all of our old episodes, check us
01:15:53
out exclusively on the Stitcher app. And we have a weekly show on Stitcher Premium called Off the Record. Cheers to
01:16:00
you, Captain, and thanks to everybody out there for listening. Thank you for telling a friend, and thank you for all
01:16:05
of the wonderful five-star reviews. Please join us back here in the garage next week for episode five. Until then,
01:16:12
be good, be kind, and don't litter.