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brand [Music] [Music] never [Music] welcome to Shaker Heights episode five The Crucible flitting floating falling on
00:01:44
the ground I freeze on children's eyelashes and blur their altered vision of the
00:01:52
world they see a different Earth than I of candy and playgrounds and eternal smiles
00:02:00
I see the truth cold bare trees stripped of life and hard ground that poem was written by a
00:02:11
16-year-old girl named Lisa puit not long before she was stabbed 21 times and Left for Dead behind her boyfriend's
00:02:21
house in Shaker Heights Ohio in September of 1990 in the hours after her murder a
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small group of close friends gathered away from their parents away from the police and made up their minds that the
00:02:38
person who committed this crime was the weird kid in school the kid who wore Metallica t-shirts Kevin young one by
00:02:47
one they went to police and pointed the finger at Kevin and although there was not one piece of evidence linking Kevin
00:02:55
to the crime scene regardless of the fact that he had an Alibi the Small Town police were taken by the children's
00:03:03
stories and they decided Kevin young was their best suspect a tragedy was playing out in
00:03:13
real time just outside of Cleveland and the name of that tragedy was The Crucible on September 26th
00:03:22
1990 several detectives from Shaker Heights traveled to Ohio State University where Kevin young was
00:03:29
beginning his freshman year because of what happens next Kevin Young's life will be quite short he will never hold
00:03:38
down a real job or have any long relationships with women no family of his own he will die at the age of 44 in
00:03:51
2017 the detectives have consulted with FBI profilers who explained how they could extract a confession from Kevin
00:04:00
speak to him late at night they said bring lots of candy and soda be good cops try to make friends with him let
00:04:10
him feel safe And So It [Music] Goes Wednesday September 26th 1990 deputy chief Jim brosus detective
00:04:37
Sergeant Dan vardo Detective Tom kensky officer benur secretary Ros and I drove to Ohio State
00:04:45
University we arrived in Columbus about 6:00 p.m. and met with Captain John Petri and detective Jim younger of the
00:04:52
Ohio State University Police Department also present were detective Sergeant Tim
00:04:56
Reed and detective Tim Ward who had gone to Columbus earlier in the day the campus police assigned one of their
00:05:04
officers to watch the dormatory to let us know when Kevin young came in we planned to make contact with Kevin about
00:05:09
8:00 p.m. we then went to the rata Inn to get settled and have dinner as of about 8:00 p.m. the Columbus Police had
00:05:17
not located Kevin one of their officers called the phone in Kevin's room asked for Kevin and was told he was not in
00:05:25
this officer then set up surveillance on Kevin's room about 900 p.m. we decided to return to the police department upon
00:05:32
our arrival detective younger explained that one of his undercover officers has just located Kevin young he explained
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that this officer was dressed as a maintenance man and was cleaning a trash room that gave him a direct view of
00:05:45
Kevin Young's dorm room this officer had just reported that Kevin had left his room gone down the stairs and returned
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with a pop he added that Kevin was wearing a blue Woodberry run t-shirt I followed detective younger to the the
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dormatory Rob house is one of the dormitories in moral Tower located on the campus at Ohio State University
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detective younger and I entered the third or the main floor this is the only entrance and is staffed by students who
00:06:12
provide security and limited access to the building detective younger identified himself as campus police and
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we went up the elevator to the fifth floor there we met with the campus police officer who had seen Kevin young
00:06:25
he told us that Kevin's roommate and a girl had just left but that Kevin was in the room
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the door to the quad dorm room number 550 was open as was the door to Kevin's room which was 554 the open hallway door
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entered into a small living room type area to the rear of this area were four doors each leading to a dorm room shared
00:06:45
by two students detective younger entered the quad dorm room through the open door and knocked on the doorway to
00:06:51
Kevin's room I waited outside in the hall where I could both see and hear detective younger detective younger
00:06:58
displayed his badge identified himself as a campus police officer and told Kevin that someone was here to talk to
00:07:04
him Kevin said to ask him in and detective younger said it was private and suggested they step out in the hall
00:07:10
and away from his roommates it should be noted that we had selected the hallway because the room to the other quad dorm
00:07:16
rooms were all closed no one was in the hallway and Kevin's other roommates were
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in their rooms with their doors open Kevin said he needed to get off the phone Kevin young and detective younger
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then walked into the hallway I introduced myself as Tom Gray from the Shaker Heights Police Department as I
00:07:32
said Shaker Heights Police Department Kevin said the words with me Kevin nervously said he had been expecting to
00:07:40
hear from us I told Kevin that I had been interviewing a lot of people who had information about Lisa puit I added
00:07:47
that rich melany and Jim broes had told me that during his first interview he had offered to come in whenever
00:07:53
necessary to help us with the case I told him that since I needed his help I thought it made more sense for me to
00:08:00
come to Columbus Kevin invited us into his room I told him that I thought it was private
00:08:06
and best be done away from his roommates I added that I had asked detective younger to get me into the building
00:08:12
because that would attract far less attention than the Shaker Heights Police I went on to tell Kevin that we could
00:08:18
use a room at the campus police department and he appeared to get very nervous I then told him I was staying at
00:08:24
the rata Inn about 5 minutes from campus and that we could use my room Kevin agreed and said he just needed to get
00:08:30
some shoes and call home he dialed the phone then put it down got his shoes and asked if he could call later I told him
00:08:38
he could call home whenever he wanted detective younger Kevin young and I walked towards the elevator Kevin said
00:08:45
that the stairs were faster so we walked down the stairs detective younger got into his Auto and we went on to other
00:08:51
duties Kevin and I got into 6782 and unmarked Shaker Heights police cruiser during the drive Kevin and I did not
00:08:59
talk about the case instead we discussed college life dormatory life and classes
00:09:06
he mentioned that he was glad to be at school and that it was an opportunity to begin a new life he explained that he
00:09:11
had not decided on a major but was interested in business he added that his real interest was in economics and we
00:09:18
talked a little about economics the Adam Smith Foundation he started in high school and Mr fio his high school
00:09:24
economics teacher we discussed the adjustment to college classes Kevin said it was an easy transition because what
00:09:31
he was doing in college was a review of what he did in high school he said he tested out of enough credits that he
00:09:37
will be a sophomore midyear he also talked about the honors program in Ohio state that he is currently enrolled in
00:09:43
Kevin and I arrived at the motel about 945 p.m. we parked by door number two and took the elevator to the fifth floor
00:09:50
room 520 was around the corner to the right as we exited the elevator as we entered the room Kevin remarked that it
00:09:58
was a nice room he mentioned calling home and asked if he could wait until after we
00:10:03
finished I told him he could call when he wanted and offered to let the city of Shaker Heights pay for the call I
00:10:10
suggested he have a seat and make himself comfortable he sat in the seat on the couch nearest the window as I sat
00:10:16
on the other end of the couch there was a loud noise like a helicopter from outside Kevin asked if we could close
00:10:23
the windows I got up closed both sliding doors and turned the air conditioner on
00:10:28
low I began by explaining to Kevin that I spent the last two weeks talking to people and Gathering as much information
00:10:36
as possible in an attempt to figure out what happened to Lisa I told Kevin that I needed some insight from him in
00:10:43
addition to just discussing his involvement Kevin said he was eager to cooperate in any way that he
00:10:50
could I told Kevin that this trip to Columbus was important to me I explained that we were under pressure from the
00:10:56
media and there were some loose ends and questions I had about his involvement with the case Kevin responded with a few
00:11:02
comments about how bad the television stations are and how bad he felt about what they did to Dan he added that he
00:11:08
would like to resolve this before the media gets a hold of the story Kevin asked how long we would be and I told
00:11:14
him I wasn't sure I explained to Kevin that since I came to him for help he could decide when he was ready to stop
00:11:21
talking and I would take him back to his dormatory he mentioned that he had an 8:00 class but added that he was a night
00:11:27
person and we could take our time we discussed his class schedule in the classes he was taking I offered Kevin a
00:11:34
pop and he chose a Coke from the can whoops I offered I offered Kevin a pop and he chose a Coke from the can the
00:11:43
only way I drink it I then reminded Kevin that I was a police officer that I was investigating a
00:11:51
crime I then reminded Kevin that I was a police officer and that I was investigating a crime in which he was
00:11:57
still a suspect Kevin said that detective melany had explained all that to him I told him
00:12:04
that he had a right to remain silent and didn't have to talk to me Kevin said he
00:12:08
wanted to help I told him that we could stop or take a break whenever he wanted he said he knew that as I started to
00:12:15
explain that he could talk to an attorney Kevin interrupted me and said that he understood his rights he
00:12:21
explained that detective melany had explained all his rights and that he signed a paper that he
00:12:27
understood I asked Kevin to tell me what he thought about the incident Kevin replied that as he told detective meany
00:12:34
he was afraid that Tex Ken Workman had done it and what scared him even more was that Tex might have done it for him
00:12:42
Kevin Kevin went on to explain that he didn't know how he could live with the guilt if Tex had done it for him I asked
00:12:49
Kevin why Tex would do it for him and Kevin replied that he Kevin had been at araba on Thursday when text came in
00:12:57
Kevin said he remembers that at the time he was sitting alone at a table and was
00:13:01
real upset about a good friend of his that had been sent to the Middle East Kevin said he remembers Tex coming
00:13:08
in sitting at a table with him and saying something about going over to Dan dford and that Lisa was coming over he
00:13:16
remembers that Tech said something about hating to be around when Dan and Lisa are
00:13:20
together I then ask Kevin why he thought Tex would do this Kevin replied that Tex
00:13:26
knew that he Kevin had a crush on Lisa for a long time even though Kevin insisted the crush was over Kevin added
00:13:34
the text was also worried about having an alibi for Thursday night Kevin explained that he was feeling extreme
00:13:41
guilt even thinking about the possibility that Tex might have done this for him I asked Kevin who he was
00:13:47
friends with that went to the Middle East and Kevin said it was Emanuel Robinson he then went on to explain that
00:13:54
Manny was not really a close friend just someone he went to high school with Kevin added that he really didn't even
00:14:00
know if Manny was there but that he had heard that from other friends I asked Kevin if Manny went into
00:14:07
the service right after high school he explained that Manny and he had just graduated together and that he didn't
00:14:13
know Manny very well Kevin added that he only spoken to Manny a couple of times throughout High School Kevin said it
00:14:20
just scared him that a kid his age was going to come back Dead from the Middle East Kevin went on to talk about the
00:14:26
draft and how because of his January birthday he would be one of the first kids drafted he explained that they were
00:14:33
going to start the draft next year by drafting 19-year-old kids I asked Kevin what he thought about the draft and he
00:14:39
said he didn't really think that they would do it Kevin then went on to add that he thought the draft was unfair
00:14:45
since they spent all that money all those years on a volunteer army Kevin added those volunteers and
00:14:51
reserves knew their risks when signed up and that they should not need a draft Kevin paused as if deep thought and I
00:15:00
told him I remembered woring about the draft in high school and that they stopped the draft the year I graduated I
00:15:06
then asked Kevin if he was worried about the draft and he said not really he did
00:15:10
not really think they would have a draft he then began to talk about settling it
00:15:14
through economic means free markets and why we were in the middle he went on to explain that he remembers having long
00:15:21
arguments really discussions with students and teachers at Shaker High School on topics like this when Kevin
00:15:27
was done explaining views on the issues I asked him if he enjoyed thinking and talking about things in theoretical
00:15:33
kinds of terms Kevin said yes he he remembers Kevin said yes he remembers doing that a lot in economics and I said
00:15:44
with Mr FBO and he said oh you know him he's a different sort of guy but we used
00:15:50
to have a lot of long talks about economics World politics and anything Kevin added that his own views were kind
00:15:57
of conservative and had allowed him to have some long discussion with with some kids at school that had really strong
00:16:03
views and then he enjoyed doing that kind of thinking and that kind of mental thought process I then told him that was
00:16:10
what I needed help with I explained that it would be great help to me in figuring
00:16:15
out what happened to Lisa puit I asked him to put himself in the place of the person who did this to Lisa puit and
00:16:22
tell me a little bit about what he thinks happened Kevin looked at me with a kind
00:16:26
of puzzled look and said just between us and I said yeah just to kind of help me
00:16:32
think through the thought process I began asking Kevin if he thought Lisa was riding her bike or
00:16:38
walking when this happened looking at me but without constant eye contact he said
00:16:44
that he thought she was riding her bike and that the person grabbed her off her bike and that the bike then rolled into
00:16:50
the bushes I asked him to go on and Kevin thought for a minute and then turned and looked out the sliding door
00:16:55
window and began to explain that the person person who did this really didn't plan on it to happen and he didn't
00:17:02
really think about it ahead of time that he was just walking around that night and kind of wandering and saw Lisa and
00:17:10
when these two people got close something snapped something snapped and this anger
00:17:16
came out that he could not control he knocked Lisa off for a bike and grabbed her and something happened and she was
00:17:23
stabbed with a knife and she was stabbed and she died so fast that he got scared he did not want that to happen
00:17:34
and he started acting frantic and crazy and running around and doing things real
00:17:39
quick because he was scared Kevin paused and I asked what happened next and he looked at me and said that he ran from
00:17:46
there Kevin added that he was sure that he will never kill again and that he was
00:17:53
sorry that Lisa died Kevin said that he probably has a new life a away from there Kevin thought for a moment then
00:18:01
repeated that he got out of there Kevin added that he was sure that this person will never kill again and that this
00:18:07
person was so scared when Lisa died that he will never kill again I told Kevin that I was afraid
00:18:13
that something might snap again and that this person might hurt someone Kevin said he was sure the person wouldn't
00:18:20
because the person had gone on to another life and things were better and this could never happen again I asked
00:18:26
Kevin to describe what he thought happened to Lisa he said she was stabbed and then he added he heard on the news
00:18:34
that she had been stabbed I asked him to explain in Greater detail and he said that he
00:18:40
thought she was stabbed from the front Kevin said that he just walked up to her and stabbed her once twice maybe
00:18:48
more because there was a lot of anger going on Kevin asked to use the bathroom and
00:18:54
in fact got stuck in there due to a sticky door we joked about it and he decided that next time he wouldn't close
00:19:01
the door completely he also got another pop about this time after a couple minutes stretch I asked Kevin how well
00:19:08
he knew the area where this had happened he told me that he often walks around at
00:19:12
night when he can't sleep but that he usually doesn't go to Lee Road he added that most of the time he just walks near
00:19:19
her house he added that he added that most of the time he just walks near his house or goes across the street and sits
00:19:27
in the stadium at the high school he explained that he often doesn't sleep well and that he uses the time to think
00:19:34
things out for himself I asked kin what kind of things he thinks about and he said that over the years he has had a
00:19:40
lot of problems with dealing with kids at Shaker and that he often needed time to think things out Kevin said that
00:19:45
happened when he would say or do something to others that bothered him he mentioned dealing with girls
00:19:51
specifically but added that things were better now that he had his new life at College I then asked Kevin to describe
00:19:57
the area and and he said there was a sidewalk in some trees but he didn't remember it in much detail I asked him
00:20:03
to try to remember what he could about the area to think in terms of the person who did this and to think what he would
00:20:10
do with the knife Kevin said that he would get rid of it only an idiot would keep the knife
00:20:17
I asked how he would get rid of it and Kevin real quickly replied that would be easy there will be a lot of sewers
00:20:23
around and if you throw it hard enough no one will ever find it still thinking in terms of the person who did this I
00:20:31
asked Kevin where this scared person would go to wash blood off his hands or to change
00:20:36
clothes he looked right at me and said that the way Lisa was stabbed this person didn't get any blood on him and
00:20:42
didn't get any blood on their clothes and that he didn't know where they would go if they
00:20:47
did I asked him if he was familiar with the lakes and parks in the area and he again said that he did not know where
00:20:53
this person would go to wash or change I then asked Kevin to tell me how this person felt and how Lisa felt
00:21:01
before during and after Kevin thought for a minute and said he didn't feel anything before
00:21:08
because he was just walking around and didn't know it was going to happen Kevin said he then felt scared and angry
00:21:16
because he couldn't stop what was happening to Lisa I asked Kevin how this person felt
00:21:22
afterwards he paused and said guilty he added he thought the person felt a lot of guilt he then looked right
00:21:31
at me and quickly at it that he thought this person would feel guilty because he
00:21:38
Kevin always made himself feel guilty about things he couldn't control Kevin went on to explain that he felt a lot of
00:21:45
guilt about Lisa's death and that he felt he should have been there to stop this person even though he knows
00:21:52
logically that he shouldn't feel that way I asked Kevin how he thought Lisa felt
00:21:58
he thought for a minute looked out the window and said Lisa knew him and that she felt surprised and that she looked
00:22:06
real scared when she realized what was happening I asked Kevin what this person might have said to Lisa and he said that
00:22:13
he didn't think this person said anything to Lisa we then talked about the possibility that the motive was
00:22:18
robbery or rape he paused leaned back on the couch and said that he didn't think
00:22:24
Lisa had anything to steal that he didn't think that this person wanted to rape her that it was anger or something
00:22:31
snapping and that he didn't think the person was a criminal I asked Kevin if he thought this person heard Lisa's
00:22:37
screaming and he looked right at me and said of course he would he added that he
00:22:42
is so close that the screams would be like yelling in your ear right now we then talked a little bit about
00:22:49
what happens to people under stress I told him that there are policemen involved in shootings that don't
00:22:55
remember hearing the shots he simply said he didn't believe it we then talked a little bit about how
00:23:01
people believe different things he mentioned long arguments with other students over beliefs and added that he
00:23:07
sometimes expressed an extreme view to get people to argue we talked a little about crimes and how different people
00:23:14
have different views on what should happen to people that commit crimes I then asked Kevin what he
00:23:20
thought should happen to the person who did this to Lisa Kevin had been very relaxed he sat
00:23:26
right up looked me right in the eye spoke slowly and deliberately and said that the person that did this should be
00:23:34
electrocuted should hang or should at least spend his life in prison he paused then looking away to the center of the
00:23:41
room adding that if he is under 21 years old he should be treated like a juvenile
00:23:48
because you don't have any real rights up until you're 21 years old anyways and that this person needed help this person
00:23:55
needed guidance and that I should understand understand that the person didn't really mean to do
00:24:02
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[Music] 2023 I told Kevin that that was exactly why I came to Columbus that we shared concerns about the person
00:26:30
who did this that I agreed with him that I thought Lisa knew the person who did this that I felt that during our
00:26:36
investigation we had interviewed the person who did this during our investigation I explained to him that I
00:26:42
felt that it's sometime I would be interviewing this person and that in order to help this person I needed to
00:26:48
get through to him that I was from our juvenile unit and was used to helping kids get help that the reason I was
00:26:55
involved in all the interviews was that I had convinced my boss that this was a kid who needed help and who was not a
00:27:02
criminal I told Kevin that time was running out as our detectives put together a case to send the criminal to
00:27:08
jail I asked for advice on how to convince this person that I understood that he needed help and that the only
00:27:15
chance I had of convincing others was for this person to trust me I explained that someone has to present the case to
00:27:21
the prosecutor and that how the case is presented determines what the person is charged with I added that I viewed
00:27:28
myself as a neutral Outsider in the judicial process whose Duty it was to gather facts and put pieces together and
00:27:35
present it to a prosecutor I explained that if the facts showed evidence of a cold blooded killing then I would be
00:27:42
forced to present those facts but if the facts showed that someone needed help then I would present those facts I told
00:27:49
Kevin that my fear was that the person needed help and I would not be able to get through
00:27:55
them I asked Kevin for his help and asked if he thought that I could get through to this person and told him that
00:28:01
I valued his opinion because I thought this person was one of his group of friends Kevin told me he thought that I
00:28:08
could get through to this person but that it would not be easy because it would be very difficult for this person
00:28:14
to admit what he had done I then asked Kevin how I could get through to this person Kevin told me that I would have
00:28:21
to meet again and again and again with this person and that I would have to push them real hard and get them real
00:28:28
emotional and force them to want to talk about what happened he added that he thought it would really be in the best
00:28:34
interest of the person involved if I kept doing that to everybody until I got to the person so that he could admit
00:28:41
what he did and get the help that he needed I talked to Kevin about how important this trip down here was to me
00:28:49
I told him that after interviewing people most of the day I decided that I had to talk to him and that I couldn't
00:28:55
wait I explained explain to Kevin that many people including my boss believed that Kevin had been involved in what
00:29:02
happened to Lisa I told Kevin that I needed his help to explain this to my boss I asked Kevin to help me explain
00:29:11
and I told Kevin that I needed help from him to explain his involvement to my boss Kevin became very defensive and
00:29:18
said in a strong voice quote I didn't do it I then asked Kevin who he thought did
00:29:24
do it and he said he was very scared for text and that he thought Tex killed Lisa I asked if he thought Tex was
00:29:31
capable and he said that Tex had been at his house Friday morning and that Tex had threatened to kill Dan dford because
00:29:38
he thought Dan dford did it we then talked about whether Kevin believed that Tex really thought Dan dord did it and
00:29:45
the conflict between that and Kevin thinking that Tex did it Kevin finally said he did not really think texted it
00:29:52
but was not sure who else could have done it I told Kevin I had a lot lot of unanswered questions and asked him what
00:29:59
he would say if I told him that someone had seen him out of his house that night
00:30:05
Kevin quickly replied that no one saw me out of my house then he added it was too
00:30:10
dark out there for anyone to see me he went on to explain that as he had explained to detective malany he went to
00:30:17
bed that he woke up and was unable to sleep and that he just got up and walked around the house he added that he had
00:30:24
got in a sharp pain while lying in bed about 12 :30 a.m. he explained that this made him feel extremely guilty because
00:30:32
he felt he should have realized that something was going on that he should have been out there to do something
00:30:37
about it but that he stayed in his house he also said that he had talked to his next door neighbor and that his next
00:30:43
door neighbor had had the same pain the same time of the night and that he thought that was kind of eerie because
00:30:51
he quote thinks it was right about the time that somebody was doing this to Lisa puit
00:30:57
I told Kevin I was thinking about lcen again and asked if there was any reason he might find his fingerprints on Lisa's
00:31:04
jeans Kevin got very defensive said his fingerprints are not on Lisa's jeans and
00:31:10
insisted that I take his fingerprints to compare it with any fingerprints on Lisa's jeans I explained to Kevin that a
00:31:16
lot of evidence such as that was still being examined and until such time as we had fingerprints to compare something
00:31:22
too we would not be collecting fingerprint cards from any of the suspects involved
00:31:28
I explained that his answers meant more now before we got the evidence back I then told Kevin I wanted to think back
00:31:35
to his description of what happened to Lisa I asked Kevin if he was familiar enough with the area that he could draw
00:31:42
me a sketch of the area he explained that he often walks at night but that he doesn't go toward leer
00:31:49
Road I then showed him four pictures of the area I asked if he could look through the pictures and see if they
00:31:56
gave him a better pict picture of what happened he looked through the pictures then went back to the third picture of
00:32:02
what was looking Northbound at the sidewalk on Lee Road where the bicycle was found he stared and looked at that
00:32:09
picture as we talked for the next few minutes I told him that I needed the truth from him that I needed him to be
00:32:15
honest with me he told me that he was being honest and that he did not do anything to Lisa that he did not do it I
00:32:23
told him I needed his help to resolve this either way I told Kevin that detective melany had told me that during
00:32:30
the first interview he had offered to take a polygraph test Kevin stated that he was still ready to take the polygraph
00:32:38
and added that he would like to take it at any time I explained to Kevin that it
00:32:42
was important to do the polygraph when it was good for him I added that I appreciated his cooperation in the in
00:32:48
the investigation and that I could arrange to set it up for next week tomorrow whenever he wanted Kevin asked
00:32:55
how quickly we could get the polygraph oper operator down because he wanted to take it as quickly as possible I asked
00:33:01
Kevin if he wanted to go back to his dormatory and get some sleep I also told him that if he wanted he was welcome to
00:33:08
stay here he said that if we could do it early the next day he could just stay at
00:33:13
the motel he then thought about the fact that he had 8:00 classes and was concerned about missing classes and
00:33:19
wanted to get the polygraph over with but didn't want to interfere with his classes I told Kevin that I had prepared
00:33:25
for the trip and had brought up polygraph operator with me I explained that it was up to him but I told Kevin
00:33:32
if you wanted to do it tonight I could go talk to the polygraph operator and make arrangements for the polygraph I
00:33:38
explained that it would take some time for the operator to prepare the questions for the test Kevin said that
00:33:44
he would rather do it now whatever it took so that he could prove once and for all that he didn't do anything to Lisa
00:33:51
Kevin appeared to be in a very emotional state he was smoking heavily his muscles
00:33:57
tensed up and he had a lot of intensity in his voice I tried to just talk more about other things for a while in order
00:34:04
to get him more relaxed for the polygraph we talked about polygraphs and police investigations then spent time
00:34:10
talking about college and about Shaker at approximately 12:30 in the morning I asked Kevin if he wanted another pop he
00:34:18
took a break and went to the [Music] bathroom [Music] Kevin was out of cigarettes and I got
00:34:36
him a fresh pack I told him I had two options either bring the polygraph operator down and we talk in general
00:34:42
about the setup or go to the other room and brief the polygraph operator Kevin said he'd like a few minutes to sit and
00:34:49
smoke a cigarette so I told Kevin I'd be back in a few minutes I met with our officers in room number 516 and explain
00:34:57
to our polygraph operator Tom kahky where I was at in the interview and we discussed key points for the polygraph
00:35:04
Tom kensky asked if Kevin was rested enough to take a polygraph I then returned to talk to Kevin while the
00:35:10
polygraph questions were prepared I asked Kevin if he had ever taken a polygraph before and he said no
00:35:18
I explained to him that he needed to be rested and calm and prepared to take the
00:35:22
polygraph we talked about the late hour and I again offered to let him sleep either at the motel or in his dormatory
00:35:29
Kevin said that he felt good that he felt relaxed and that he wanted to take the polygraph and get it over with I
00:35:36
told him we had some time until the polygraph operator was ready we just sat and talked about the adjustment to
00:35:42
college we talked about how easy his classes were and his preparation from high school and said that he was real
00:35:47
excited and that he had a whole new chance to get a new life started and was hoping that we would come down and get
00:35:53
done with this and he wouldn't have to deal with it anymore because he was really comfortable in his new life that
00:35:58
he had started Kevin also talked at this point in time about his roommate and how
00:36:02
somebody at the college must do a really good job of matching roommates because he and his roommate clicked right from
00:36:07
the very beginning and he really liked the guy a lot and he had a nice girlfriend Kevin then mentioned that he
00:36:12
had already met a couple girls at Ohio State and how much better things were going at College he added that just
00:36:19
today a girl had walked up and talk to him in one of his classes without him ever having to talk to her or do
00:36:24
anything and he didn't think about getting her number but he was excited because he would see her in class the
00:36:30
next day and would be able to get her number and she would be a new friend to be able to talk to after we talked for a
00:36:37
few minutes there was a knock at the door and it was Tom kahky I introduced Kevin young and Tom kensy Tom kensky
00:36:44
then brought in the polygraph equipment and began setting it up on the table I talked to Kevin and asked him if there
00:36:49
was anything else I could do for him and he said no I told him if there were any
00:36:54
questions or problems that I'd be in the other the room and they could call me at
00:36:59
about 2: a.m. I left Tom kahky and Kevin young in room 520 I went to room 516 to
00:37:06
wait for the polygraph to be completed we again discussed the interview we were just discussing a number of options and
00:37:13
I contacted special agent Jim Wright of the FBI at home Jim Wright provided direction for the interview if it should
00:37:19
continue and reminded me that Kevin and I could be getting tired I decided to focus on the polygraph as a break and
00:37:26
the next session as a new time of talking to Kevin about 2:45 a.m. when the polygraph test was over Tom kensky
00:37:34
left Kevin in room 520 and came to room 516 to discuss the results he told me that there was slight deception on all
00:37:42
but two of the questions however he added that Kevin had an extreme high stress heart rate that could be related
00:37:50
to the interview or just being tired Tom kahy explained that he had not confronted Kevin with any of the results
00:37:59
I took the notepad with Tom kin's notes and questions on it and went back to room 520 to meet Kevin Kevin was still
00:38:05
seated at the table where Tom kensky had conducted the polygraph I pulled a chair
00:38:10
directly in front of Kevin and told him that I was concerned I explained that he
00:38:15
had not done well on the interview as I had hoped I explained to him that there were a number of questions for which he
00:38:21
showed deception I told him it was late and asked him if he thought being tired had a lot to do with Kevin said he
00:38:27
thought that that must be it and that he was sure he was telling the truth I looked him right in the eyes and asked
00:38:34
him if he did it and once again he replied I didn't do it I then reminded Kevin that we both had been up all day
00:38:43
and then gave him some options in terms of what he might like to do I told him that I was down here to learn the truth
00:38:50
from him and to help him and that I would do whatever he wanted to do I told him one choice was was that I could take
00:38:57
him back to his dormatory and if he wanted come back next week to see him a second choice was to take him back to
00:39:05
his dormatory and see him again after classes the third choice was to continue to talk Kevin said he wanted to continue
00:39:12
talking and that he wasn't tired and felt that he could best help by continuing to discuss the incident we
00:39:19
took a short break Kevin went to the bathroom and I got him another Pop I then started by talking to Kevin about
00:39:25
how important this was for me personally to get through to the person who did this to Lisa and get them the help that
00:39:32
they needed I explained that most of the police department and most of the investigators had kids and that they
00:39:39
were only out to solve a crime Kevin said that he had heard a lot of things about Lucasville prison and that he had
00:39:46
been thinking about that and that it would be really awful for the person who did this to Lisa to have to spend the
00:39:52
rest of their life in a place like Lucasville prison we then talked in General about the need to punish adults
00:39:58
and to help kids we then reviewed how he heard about what happened to Lisa he talked about text coming over to his
00:40:05
house about his mother walking him up about the fact that his mother knew because she'd gotten a call but that his
00:40:12
mother didn't tell him Kevin talked about how Tex was real wild and upset about the whole thing Kevin said he
00:40:18
didn't think much about it until he was at araba later in the day I told Kevin I
00:40:23
had some concerns about what he said to others about Lisa while he was at Arabica he said he only knew what text
00:40:30
told him I asked him what text told him and he said text told him that Lisa had been knocked off her bicycle bludgeoned
00:40:37
and raped I then confronted Kevin with the information I had that he was insisting that she had been stabbed and
00:40:44
not beaten and that he was insisting that she had not been raped Kevin denied that he said that and
00:40:52
added that maybe sometime later in the day he had heard on the news or otherwise that she had been stabbed and
00:40:58
that she wasn't raped and that he remembers at some point hearing that Friday night and that he figured that
00:41:05
must be what the kids were referring to I again started to focus on Kevin and I told him that I was scared and that I
00:41:12
thought he was involved and that I would really hate for something to happen to him like him going to prison for the
00:41:18
rest of his life I told him that I really urgently needed him to tell me the truth Kevin began moving in his seat
00:41:25
and looked around the room with quick darting eyes he then looked at me relaxed back in the chair and told me
00:41:32
that he was tired and that he needed a break he offered to sleep on the couch for a couple hours Kevin said he wanted
00:41:38
to get up talk some more and then take the polygraph again to prove his innocence once and for all I discussed
00:41:45
my concern that he'd be rested for the polygraph Kevin again offered to stay in the motel room and asked me if I would
00:41:52
help him in explaining to his teachers if he missed the classes because he had a couple couple of quizzes coming up I
00:41:58
told him I would help him in any way possible I asked Kevin if he would rather go back to his dorm room and
00:42:03
sleep and he said he was afraid he would spend the rest of the night explaining this to his roommates I asked Kevin if
00:42:09
it was a normal day and he was up till 4:00 a.m. the current time how late he would sleep he said probably until 10:
00:42:16
or 11: a.m. I told Kevin that I would move my bag out of the bedroom room 520 is a two- room suite and that there was
00:42:24
a large Bed and bathroom and that he could have the sweet to himself for the night I suggested that he just rest and
00:42:31
go to sleep and wake up when he was ready to go for the next day Kevin asked me if he could call his parents and I
00:42:37
said sure and offered again to pay for the call he then thought about the time and said he did not want to worry them
00:42:44
by calling at 4: in the morning and asked if he could call when he got up I told him sure he then went into the
00:42:51
bedroom in 520 and closed the door I straightened up Room 5 20 little and went to room 516 and advised deputy
00:42:59
chief broches that I was done for the night I left a note for Kevin to call room 510 if he needed something before I
00:43:06
returned it was 4:45 a.m. and I retired for the night I got up about 8:00 a.m. a
00:43:13
little before 8:30 the phone rang and it was Kevin he said he was up and ready to
00:43:18
go I told him I was just taking a shower and ask if he'd had a chance to take a shower he said no but he would love to I
00:43:26
told him there were towels soap shampoo and everything in the bathroom suite and
00:43:30
it was paid for and he might as well use it and to make himself comfortable and I
00:43:34
would be down shortly I got dressed and went down to room 520 as Kevin was coming out of the back room he told me
00:43:41
he was ready to go and he felt good after the shower I asked him if he would like to start with some breakfast and he
00:43:46
said that that sounded like a good idea there was a complimentary paper from the
00:43:50
motel I gave him the paper and asked if he wanted to look at it I asked him again if he still wanted to take the
00:43:57
polygraph he said yes he really needed to prove that he was innocent I told him I thought he'd be more relaxed if Tom
00:44:05
kensky went out to breakfast with us he agreed I explained that Tom kahky had gotten up early and gone for a walk I
00:44:13
left Kevin reading the paper for about 20 minutes until I located Tom I then returned to Kevin's room and told him
00:44:19
that Tom kky would be along in a couple minutes Kevin and I discussed the Middle
00:44:24
East and a couple other current news items until Tom kahky knocked on the door we asked Kevin where he wanted to
00:44:30
eat and he said anything was fine as we walked out of the room door Kevin remembered that he had forgotten to call
00:44:36
home I started to walk back into the room and said I would charge the call to the city Kevin thought for a minute then
00:44:43
said no he'd rather wait until after the polygraph when it was all over Kevin young Tom kensy and I then walked to the
00:44:51
area of the front desk where the motel restaurant was located and we debated between eating being there or at the Bob
00:44:57
Evans next door Kevin said he liked Bob Evans so we walked next door Kevin had a
00:45:03
breakfast of coffee and orange juice and french toast we took about an hour to eat breakfast relax and talk Kevin
00:45:10
talked a lot about computer games and Dungeons and Dragons Tom kahy expressed an interest in Dungeons and Dragons and
00:45:17
Kevin explained in detail about using the book being the dragon master and being a player he said a lot of the kids
00:45:24
asked him to be Dragon master he added that it was tough to be a player after you have been a dragon Master because
00:45:30
you knew the book he said that a dragon Master had to come up with a lot of obstacles when players had been Dragon
00:45:35
Masters Kevin also talked about video games and Nintendo he was proud of the fact that
00:45:41
he had mastered Super Mario 3 he said that it took him like 3 hours to complete the first time but that after
00:45:48
he played it once he could do it in about 20 minutes he said he played Nintendo a lot but that it was really
00:45:54
his brother's game he jokingly said that he has to get along with his little brother or his brother won't let him
00:46:00
play Kevin said he realized he was a little old for some of these video games but said that they were a great
00:46:07
Challenge and a lot of fun we took our time and walked back to the motel Tom kensky went to prepare for the polygraph
00:46:14
and Kevin and I began just talking about things in general I was working to have
00:46:18
him very relaxed for the test I asked Kevin if he felt pretty good about taking the polygraph and he did we
00:46:24
discussed again calling his mother and he repeated that he wanted to wait until after the polygraph Kevin asked if we
00:46:31
would be done after the polygraph or if we could talk a little and I said it was
00:46:35
up to him and he asked if I could get some more pop and make sure that we had cigarettes so that we could take some
00:46:40
time to talk after the test he said he already missed his classes and basically the whole day was spent and if we needed
00:46:47
to talk about that we could Kevin also said he'd like to talk a while before he took the polygraph by now he was about
00:46:54
10:00 a.m. and we took talked until about noon during that time we discussed the incident again we talked about how
00:47:01
Kevin learned about the incident and who his friends are I asked who his best friend was and Kevin mentioned a letter
00:47:07
he was writing to John hilard he explained that he was writing the letter but probably wouldn't send it because he
00:47:13
expected to see him in a couple of weeks he added that in the letter he told JN how well things are going at College he
00:47:21
also said he wrote about his roommate and his roommate's girlfriend he said he wrote about her PDA public displays of
00:47:27
affection Kevin added that she didn't really bother him but that he just kind of jokingly said those kind of things
00:47:33
because people expected to hear that from him we then got to talking about computers he said he had an Apple
00:47:39
computer at home and had just learned to write and print on it but that was about
00:47:43
all he added that he had to give the computer to his sister a ninth grader at Shaker before he left to come down to
00:47:49
Columbus I then asked him when he had come down to Columbus he said he brought all of his stuff on the 9th of September
00:47:55
to try out for band he said that he changed his mind about band left his stuff in the dormatory and went home I
00:48:03
asked him why he changed his mind and he said it was a lot of things he said that
00:48:07
he was nervous about being away from home that most of the kids had been down there practicing for two weeks he added
00:48:13
that band also took a lot of time and was only worth two credits he also said he was never really
00:48:20
into marching band that he enjoyed music but not marching he seemed nervous discussing
00:48:26
band and changed the subject he mentioned a couple of girls that had come up to him in classes and talked to
00:48:32
him he added that they just came up to him and that he did not have to talk first he went on to talk about how glad
00:48:39
he was to be away from Shaker he was excited to have a whole new life and was glad to be away from the problems he had
00:48:45
in Shaker he felt the kids in Shaker were tough and related that he had a lot of
00:48:50
friends but that they make him feel like an outcast I asked if he was referring to the GG GC Kevin laugh and we then
00:48:58
talked about the GGC girls and boys and about prom night he brought up the after
00:49:02
prom party and told me that he has a tendency to build up his expectations and that he really felt angry about what
00:49:08
the girls did to him he brought up araba and said that he basically hung out there for the summer I asked him how Dan
00:49:15
and Lisa fit in he described Dan as a best friend of his for a long time and that during the time that Lisa was in
00:49:21
town he and Dan spent a lot of time together he went on to say between Lisa being back in town and Dan being in the
00:49:28
hospital that he really hadn't seen Dan much lately I then asked Kevin what clothes he brought back from Columbus
00:49:34
for his last week here I explained that we did not find any of his clothes when we were at his house he said all of his
00:49:42
clothes were in the clothes shoot I told him the kids all remember him wearing one set of clothes he said most of the
00:49:50
week he wore a skateboard or t-shirt blue jeans and his moccasins he said on the coolness nights he wore a blue plaid
00:49:57
flannel shirt he asked if that matched what we knew and I said basically I thought for a minute then asked if he
00:50:03
saw Dan the day Dan got out of the hospital Kevin explained that even though he considered Dan a best friend
00:50:09
that he had not felt it important to try to get in touch with Dan or to talk to him the day that he got out Kevin said
00:50:16
he was aware that everybody at the high school was excited to see Dan and that Lisa and Dan had been around together
00:50:22
and that Lisa was very excited to see him we talk next about Tex Ken Workman Kevin was in a very talkative mood
00:50:29
during this time period And I was basically listening and letting him talk around noon Kevin said that he felt good
00:50:36
that he was ready to take the polygraph I left him in room 520 I told him that I'd to go to Tom ky's room and talk to
00:50:43
him about setting up for the test at this time I learned that we had a problem and had to be out of the room by
00:50:49
2 p.m. Jim broches had made arrangements for another room if needed also while Kevin was waiting for me in 520 I called
00:50:58
Jim Wright from room 5:116 I discussed my concern that Kevin felt safe here and was prolonging the
00:51:05
interview I felt that Kevin did not want the interview to end he felt that Kevin
00:51:10
felt safe with me we agreed that we had to confront him and end the interview Arrangements were also made with Tom
00:51:16
kahky to run the polygraph and that if it came up clearing Kevin young of any involvement that he should discuss that
00:51:22
with Kevin and that if it came back with obvious deception that Tom kahky should
00:51:27
confront him with the deception and be prepared for the fact that Kevin might look like he's about ready to admit and
00:51:34
that at that point that Tom kensky should stop the confrontation and leave the room and let Kevin think for a few
00:51:40
minutes until I returned to the room to complete the confrontation I then went back and talked to Kevin and told him
00:51:46
that either we had to be done by 2: p.m. or that we had to moveed to another room
00:51:50
I gave him the option of taking the test right away or having lunch first while Tom kensky changed rooms and set up his
00:51:57
equipment in the other room Kevin thought lunch sounded good and asked if we could go for pizza specifically Pizza
00:52:03
Hut if there was one around I went to ask Tom kensky to change rooms and Kevin asked me to get some more coke and
00:52:10
cigarettes in case we needed to talk after the polygraph we again talked about calling
00:52:16
home and Kevin said he wanted to wait until after the polygraph test I saw Tom gansky and return to the room Kevin and
00:52:24
I then walked to the front desk asked if there was a Pizza Hut and got directions
00:52:28
to One nearby on High Street we agreed to split a pizza and Kevin ordered a medium pepperoni pan pizza we took our
00:52:35
time and again talked about college and college life and being away from home and he talked about how it was scary it
00:52:42
was basically casual conversation Kevin kept coming back to talking about his friends from Shaker and how good it felt
00:52:48
to be away from Shaker we returned to the motel about 1:30 p.m. and went to room 4
00:52:56
21 as we walked there Kevin said that if the test didn't work well he would be willing to spend another night he added
00:53:04
that he felt very comfortable talking and felt confident that if we talked long enough that we would be able to
00:53:11
resolve everything when we got to the room Tom kahy was waiting there for us Kevin was very relaxed he asked if he
00:53:20
could use the bathroom first because of the large Coke he had for lunch Kevin went into the bathroom I met briefly
00:53:26
with Tom and told him I thought Kevin was very relaxed and ready for the polygraph when Kevin came out of the
00:53:32
bathroom he was noticeably more tense than he had just been moments earlier he was all tensed up and rubbing his hands
00:53:40
together nervously I asked Kevin if he still wanted to take the test and he said he
00:53:45
was ready to go I wished Kevin good luck and told him I would return after the test at a few minutes before 3 p.m. when
00:53:52
the polygraph test was complete Tom kensky left Kevin by himself in room 421 and came to room 516 to discuss the
00:54:01
results he said that he ran two tests that he had clear deceptions on most of the questions dealing with Lisa that he
00:54:09
confronted Kevin with the deception and that Kevin got tears in his eyes but said nothing Tom kensy said he had
00:54:16
confronted Kevin directly about his involvement with Lisa and Kevin again said I didn't do it at about 300 p.m.
00:54:24
Jim broch and I went into the room Kevin was sitting by the polygraph machine on
00:54:28
a chair with a concerned almost teary look in his eyes I asked Kevin if he remembered Deputy Chief broches and
00:54:36
Kevin said he did I asked Kevin if he remembered Deputy Chief brochas and Kevin said he did I told Kevin that due
00:54:43
to the pressure on this incident that they had sent deputy chief down to Columbus deputy chief broches then left
00:54:50
the room I asked Kevin if he minded if I open the drapes and he said that that would be great
00:54:55
I sat down directly in front of him got very close and told him I was concerned I sat down directly in front of him got
00:55:02
very close and told him that I was concerned and a little scared about what happened he said he knew the machine
00:55:08
couldn't lie but he didn't understand why the machine was doing this to him I paused for a couple minutes and began to
00:55:15
slowly explain to Kevin the situation as I saw it I told him that if he really was not involved in what happened to
00:55:22
Lisa that things would work out I then told him I was afraid that he was not telling the truth I told him I really
00:55:30
wanted a chance to help him I repeated that the person who did this to Lisa needed me both as a friend and as
00:55:37
someone to present objectively to the prosecutor exactly what happened I repeated my feeling that this person
00:55:44
really needed help that this person really didn't mean to hurt Lisa and that this person didn't deserve to spend his
00:55:51
life in prison or to be executed I told Kevin I had a number of concerns about his involvement with Lisa I told him I
00:55:58
wanted to go over them with him so that he understood why the pressure was on us
00:56:03
to resolve his involvement I told Kevin that I had concerns about how he found out about Lisa and his reaction to her
00:56:10
death I explained that he said text told him that Lisa had been pulled off her bike hid in the head murdered and raped
00:56:18
yet kids at araba told us that by 1:30 in the afternoon that he Kevin had been insisting that she had been stabbed and
00:56:27
had not been raped I told Kevin that we didn't understand why watching the 5:00 news listing Dan as a suspect made it
00:56:35
obvious to everyone that Dan didn't do it I told Kevin I was worried that he kept saying text did it yet he told us
00:56:42
that Tex wanted to kill Dan for doing it I told Kevin that I was worried that he
00:56:47
had made repeated threats against Dan and Lisa I told Kevin that I was worried about his relationships with girls I
00:56:53
read from his journals quote I'm in the popular crowd but I don't like them or I
00:56:58
speak on a lonely Saturday evening or my luck will change for the better in the next few months between high school and
00:57:05
college each time he asked for and I showed him the paper that I was reading from I told him I thought the affection
00:57:13
between Dan and Lisa bothered him and I read again from his papers quote it really pisses me off when I see couples
00:57:19
paired off I am worth absolutely nothing he replied that that had all changed and
00:57:24
I reminded him what he had said about his roommate's girlfriend's PDA public display of affection I told him I had
00:57:31
concerns about his fantasies with girls and again read regarding prom Knight quote it is not a bash it is three girls
00:57:39
and myself and they are ditching their boyfriends so they can spend the night with
00:57:43
me I asked if he really thought they were ditching their boyfriends on prom night he continued to look at me but did
00:57:50
not respond I told him some of his thoughts bothered me like I will will kill all undesir bles I must I am hated
00:57:59
by virtually all my classmates males think I'm a loser and psychotic a scar on the school's mere existence females
00:58:06
despise me as if I was the ugliest person on this planet which of course I am I read the one final thought of his
00:58:13
quote If I Ever Lose Control of myself withdraw into an alternative world and let animal instincts take over I handed
00:58:22
Kevin a copy of that passage that was I handed Kevin a copy of that passage that was found at his house
00:58:30
paused then told Kevin that you can't stay in this alternative world that the truth must come
00:58:36
out I told Kevin that I had enjoyed the time with him that it had been a long day and that I had to get back to the
00:58:43
real world I told Kevin that he had to get back to the real world too I paused for a minute and told Kevin that I felt
00:58:51
that he had a number of options I told him that I felt confident that if he was truthfully not involved that things
00:58:57
would work out however I also told him that if he was involved in any way in what happened to Lisa that he could
00:59:05
never Escape it I said I felt that until he shared the truth with someone who could understand him that there would be
00:59:13
something deep down inside him that would never let him get away from this I told him that until this was resolved he
00:59:20
couldn't go back to Shaker because everybody in Shaker would think of him as being the suspect I added that he
00:59:26
couldn't go back to college because everything in college would Now remind him of Lisa I told him he couldn't go
00:59:32
back to anything until he told the truth I told him he had to clear his conscience and tell the truth Kevin
00:59:40
reacted he leaned forward he got real tense and he looked me right in the eyes with tears welling up in his eyes and
00:59:48
deep emotion in his voice he said he could have told me he did it spent a couple years in the hospital then got on
00:59:54
with his life life but he said quote I've got to tell you the truth and this is the truth and if I don't tell you
01:00:01
this I don't know how I could ever live with myself he paused for a couple minutes then slowly he said I'm scared I
01:00:10
feel suicidal I have nothing to live for I feel more suicidal now than I ever have since I was hospitalized 2 years
01:00:18
ago he said that he quote needed to be in the hospital he said that for the first time in his life he realized that
01:00:24
he really needed help and that he needed to be in the hospital he said he couldn't go anywhere but a hospital I
01:00:31
told him that I thought he ought to call his parents and talk to them about getting in a hospital he said no he
01:00:37
couldn't call home he said no he couldn't call home because his mom wouldn't believe him and she wouldn't
01:00:43
let him go into the hospital he added that he really needed to be in a hospital in a way from his parents he
01:00:50
thought for a minute and asked if he could call his doctor I told him we could we walked over to the phone he had a
01:00:57
card in his wallet for Dr Melvin chavenson he gave me the number and I dialed it and charged it to the city
01:01:03
credit card Kevin asked if he could talk to his doctor privately and I agreed I started to walk out of the room until
01:01:10
Kevin told me he got the answering machine he left a message on the answering machine at about 4:10 p.m. and
01:01:16
said something to the effect of this is Kevin I need to talk to you I'll call you back in a little bit Kevin and I
01:01:22
talked for a little while and I told him that I thought he should leave a message
01:01:25
with a number for the doctor to call Kevin felt confident his doctor would call during his next break between
01:01:31
patients from 4:50 p.m. to 5:00 p.m. so we left a second message at about 4:20 p.m. while we were waiting we discussed
01:01:39
a number of the points we discussed I again asked Kevin what he thought should happen to the person that did this to
01:01:45
Lisa he replied that the person should kill himself because he had nothing to live for and if the person didn't kill
01:01:52
himself then he should be killed Kevin told me he really had nothing to live for and just needed to sit he sat
01:02:00
on the bed and was silent for a while he talked a little more about making friends and how hard it was he said he
01:02:07
had a deep pain inside and that it was so deep he couldn't tell me he added that he wanted to tell me what it was
01:02:14
but that he needed help and he couldn't say it he then looked at me and said he wasn't even sure of what it was as of
01:02:21
5:05 p.m. Dr chavenson had not called so so I called Shaker PD and got detective
01:02:26
CLA as he was leaving the station I asked him to go knock on the door of Dr shavon's office 23360 sh Grand Boulevard
01:02:34
sweet 105 Dr Shavon finally called about 5:15 Kevin answered the phone but asked
01:02:41
if he could talk privately I waited outside the door after a few minutes Kevin came to the door he told me that
01:02:48
Dr chavenson could make arrangements to get him help in the hospital however Dr Shavon told him he had to call his
01:02:56
parents something about insurance Kevin then asked if he could call his dad instead of his mom because
01:03:02
his mom wouldn't believe him Kevin tried but got no answer for his dad Kevin hesitated and didn't want to call his
01:03:10
mom I told Kevin that I felt he knew what he wanted and if he was strong enough I was sure his parents would
01:03:17
support him Kevin asked me if I would visit him and help him through this and I promised I would I again told him he
01:03:25
really needed to call his mom because I couldn't stay with him forever and I couldn't leave him alone he finally
01:03:31
called his mom and I again stepped outside the room Kevin came to the door after a
01:03:36
minute and asked for a pen and paper after another minute he returned to the door with tears in his eyes he said he
01:03:42
didn't know what to do that his mother didn't want him to talk to me and wanted him to call an
01:03:47
attorney he showed me the paper with the attorney's name and number on it I told
01:03:51
him the decision was his but suggested that if he wanted wanted his parents help that he should follow their advice
01:03:58
Kevin then called the attorney they talked for a couple minutes then Kevin came outside the room and told me that
01:04:04
the attorney wanted to talk to me the attorney asked me where Kevin was and I told him we were in room 421 of the
01:04:10
Romana Inn on ol and Tangi River Road the attorney also asked me not to ask Kevin any more questions he then spoke
01:04:18
to Kevin again when Kevin got off the phone he told me he was to meet the attorney out front and that I was not
01:04:24
even to walk him out Kevin with tears in his eyes asked if this meant I couldn't
01:04:29
visit him in the hospital and I simply told him that I needed to make those arrangements with his parents and
01:04:35
attorney I then walked Kevin to the elevator he gave me a hug as we waited for the elevator he went down to the
01:04:42
first floor I went up to the fifth floor and prepared to drive back to Shaker [Music]
01:04:53
Heights [Music] after the detectives were unable to force a confession from Kevin young at
01:05:11
Ohio State University they returned to Shaker Heights more determined than ever that they had the right man they needed
01:05:19
a real expert to help them break Kevin the next time they spoke enter renowned psychologist Dr Murray myON a professor
01:05:30
at Syracuse University he agrees to consult with them on the case but first he has some
01:05:37
questions about Dan dford yeah I understand that and and indeed that's a very powerful Alibi um
01:05:46
that the father indicates that Dan was in fact in his room and that they both heard the screams together yes that's
01:05:53
that's very powerful there is some I must say that we we had some difficulty still however
01:06:01
with Dan subsequent Behavior he after they go out to the edge of the property and and all go back into the home
01:06:08
apparently satisfied that the source of the scream has left the area or whatever
01:06:12
and that they can't find anything unusual apparently Dan reexit the house to find the bicycle and then in fact
01:06:19
without telling his parents um calls 911 on his own uh to report what he believes to be now
01:06:26
suspicious circumstances but then when the parents hear the pro what outside on the lawn
01:06:31
you know and they're distraught and here are all these police vehicles the crime
01:06:36
scene being established Dan goes to bed right falls asleep uh while the parents are waiting
01:06:43
for the plane closed detective to come in and interview them huh right I found that I I found that unusual um and
01:06:51
somewhat disconcerting but what we decided decided here was that dick and I decided that well that's not that's
01:06:58
academic right because it's not Dan that we're going to be interrogating it's it's Kevin and whether or not he's the
01:07:04
guy or not we want to give the full shot to to use the best psychological coercion we
01:07:20
[Music] can [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
01:07:44
thought it was an Eco move few worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic must be
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a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service instantly
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get started at angie.com that's AI or download the app today