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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that is sick of hearing people complain about their
00:01:52
poodles and pills he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see you
00:01:58
thanks for listening and thanks for telling a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking double
00:02:08
cross brewed in beautiful Bend Oregon garage grade 4 out of five bottle caps this is a Belgian strong dark ale I love
00:02:17
a nice Belgian and we want to Cheers some of our friends for sending a little love and beer our way first up we have
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Julie in The Natty Cincinnati Ohio and also in Cincy we have Kate a big shout out to jennif in Las Vegas Nevada we
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also have Jennifer in Glasgow Scotland and a big shout out to Stephanie from Williamsport Ohio and last but not least
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Captain we have Shauna in Nashville who says we put the fun in Dysfunctional sha
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or sha shaa so thanks everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's show if you want to help us out with
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next week's show go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button yeah pull that phone out right
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now and follow us on Instagram Facebook Twitter Snapchat at True Crime garage all right friends that's enough of the
00:03:03
business gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime yesterday Captain we talked about
00:03:29
the murder of Michael Frankie who was killed January 1989 in front of the headquarters for the Oregon State Prison
00:03:40
System where he worked for the Department of Corrections and we had an individual this is a known criminal
00:03:46
Frank Gable who would later be convicted of that now remember they were allowed to seek the death penalty in this case
00:03:54
however they opted for life in prison without the possibility of parole and what that tells me is maybe where the
00:04:03
jury couldn't find it Beyond you know the that it was beyond A Reasonable Doubt there was must have been some hint
00:04:11
of Doubt right to not kill the guy to not sentence him to death uh for this murder now I want to touch upon the
00:04:20
trial because what we would learn after the trial is that the prosecution relied
00:04:27
on a handful of witnesses to convict Frank Gable however what we didn't know was that when these individuals were
00:04:37
being questioned by police MH these individuals their stories changed repeatedly and the prosecution did not
00:04:46
allow that to come out in court they did not why would they right they did not divulge the aspects of their different
00:04:54
stories in court so to kind of make it nice and and clean and kind of give an example of what would be different from
00:05:03
what ended up convicting this guy is that these stories they say for example three of the witnesses who testified
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against Gable had earlier told police that other people including Frank Gable had talked of killing Michael Frankie in
00:05:20
the months before the quote unquote random car burglary so that would tell a whole
00:05:26
different story there then we had wait I'm confused they talked about them killing no Frankie no no no what they
00:05:37
told police during the course of being questioned by the police is that other people that that there were other people
00:05:45
not named in this statement but also uh Frank Gable who was later convicted that
00:05:51
he and other people had talked about killing Michael Frankie months before he was actually killed months before the
00:05:59
supposed random car burglary that the prosecution's theory was a random car burglary led to the death of Michael
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Frankie to be clear you're stating that these individuals along with Frank is saying we're going to kill
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him they talked about they're going to kill him so the these people that testified are stating that we heard this
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is all premeditated it's not has nothing to do with breaking into a car we had we
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heard other people including Frank Gable claim that they someone was going to kill Michael Frankie months before it
00:06:39
actually happened again and like I stated yesterday I thought the motive for Frank gamble to break into a car
00:06:46
didn't make a lot of sense to me okay um so then we have we we do have the people
00:06:52
that did testify at court um there's going to be doubts about their testimony because later they're going to recant
00:07:01
their testimony so we have jod swar she later recanted her testimony instead claiming that another drug dealer
00:07:09
Timothy natividad was the murderer and then we have Cappy AKA shorty Harden in an affid
00:07:18
davit executed in Iowa Harden now swears quote I did not see Frank Gable stab Michael
00:07:26
Frankie then we have Dan Walsh and a new affidavit he says MH his statement wasn't true as did Kevin Walker then we
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have Michael Kier later stated that he lied when he testified against Frank Gable he said that he was seeking
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revenge against Gable for being a known prison informant then we have Janine Vera who was Gable's wife and a new
00:07:51
affidavit Vera reverse' course she said phone records refreshed her memory that Frank Gable and an associate of his had
00:08:00
called their apartment roughly 90 minutes before the murder of Michael Frankie she said that Frank Gable stayed
00:08:08
home and talked to the man and was home until an hour or two after Michael Frankie was stabbed and I guess that
00:08:15
they're basing this time of when they believe Michael Frankie was stabbed off of so-called eyewitness statements okay
00:08:23
so that gives him an alibi possibly yeah but this is the same woman that says the
00:08:29
complete opposite when it was when it was actually in court so here's the problem I don't know what to believe out
00:08:39
of any of these characters and like you said before the circumstantial evidence in this case wasn't much it wasn't like
00:08:48
a mountain of evidence MH here's the other problem remember that we we said that there was no physical evidence
00:08:56
presented against Frank Gable at the trial right there was also never a murder weapon that was located and
00:09:03
presented at the trial then we have well there was one presented but it was one that the cops bought well yeah they
00:09:11
weren't claiming that was the murder weapon they were claiming this to be of the same uh model as what we believe
00:09:19
killed Michael Frankie then we have art Barger he's an ex FBI agent who led a Department of Corrections corruption
00:09:28
probe agent Barger criticized the separate state police murder investigation of Michael Frankie in a
00:09:35
July 1990 interview Barger who has since passed away considered it an open question whether Frankie's death was
00:09:44
engineered by a drug ring conspiracy referring to evidence that Frankie may have been carrying evidence of prison
00:09:52
corruption in a briefcase adding quote knowing whether or not Michael Frankie was carrying a briefcase when he was
00:09:59
murdered is so essential to the investigation said Barger quote that I cannot believe the state police did not
00:10:07
establish that fact one way or another at the outset okay so let's think about what this individual's saying he's
00:10:15
saying that at no point in the investigation did anyone prove whether Michael Frankie was carrying his
00:10:23
briefcase that day or not there's rumors because he just got out a meeting at 6:30 that he actually had these files
00:10:30
with him and then the other rumor was that after the murder within hours these files were shredded well files from his
00:10:39
office were rumored to have been shredded so the thing here is what he's pointing out is the items that we do not
00:10:45
have that Michael Frankie would have had um at some point whether it be in his office in his car on his person that are
00:10:54
missing are his briefcase and his computer all right his laptop computer right okay so these items are missing
00:11:01
the problem with that statement is well why are they missing if the police and the investigators could not establish
00:11:09
that he had those items with him at the time that he was attacked that changes things a lot because of two things we
00:11:18
have an issue where he could have been just randomly attacked yeah that somebody broke into his car for some
00:11:24
reason these two encountered each other in the parking lot and Michael Frankie was stabbed oh and then somebody within
00:11:31
his own office goes oh he's missing oh uh or he was found dead outside now's a good time for me to get rid of his
00:11:38
briefcase and his laptop computer right and it had nothing to do with the attack
00:11:42
outside then there's the other situation which is the reverse that the attacker may have attacked him with the purpose
00:11:50
of not only killing him but taking that briefcase taking that laptop computer with them right and then no evidence of
00:11:58
the laptop or the briefcase is kind of evidence of that correct so we have this we have this x FBI agent who brings up a
00:12:07
very good question it's essential to the investigation to know whether he had a briefcase or the laptop with him at the
00:12:14
time he was killed and they never established that they never cleared that up and that is just murky Waters right
00:12:21
from the get-go and then we also have doubters that that talked about more a little bit
00:12:28
more about Frank G Gable okay so here's the thought that we need to keep in mind
00:12:33
what is being presented as in this case are two simple things one either Frank Gable did not kill Michael Frankie or
00:12:46
there's a chance that Frank Gable did kill Michael Frankie but it was also part of a larger conspiracy right that
00:12:52
maybe somebody paid him to kill right Frankie so you could have a conspiracy where people conspired to kill Michael
00:12:59
Frankie and they hired somebody else or carried it out themselves or they hired Frank Gable to do it for them want think
00:13:07
about it this way we know that Frank Gable is quote unquote drug dealer and so if there's this drug um running
00:13:15
conspiracy and he's part of it then the law anybody that's in law enforcement is
00:13:22
going to go hey well look you're the you're the Fall Guy so if you don't take care of this you're the Fall Guy mhm
00:13:29
well he became the full guy either way mhm and also to be clear though too the the problem with this case is where does
00:13:39
the conspiracy stem from does it stem from somebody involved in the Oregon Department of Corrections that wants to
00:13:45
cover some things up or a higher ranking government official that wants to cover
00:13:50
up some Mis dealings or do you simply just have organized crime you simply just have criminals who work together to
00:13:58
Inspire to kill Michael Frankie right so people that point toward uh or question
00:14:06
Gable's guilt suggests these couple of items they they question why would Frank Gable break into a car parked in a
00:14:14
well-lit patrolled lot and he did not take the car he did not take Franky's wallet or his watch and then some
00:14:24
question this I found this statement to be interesting one prison guard says quote
00:14:29
Gable couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag could he have overpowered Frankie who was physically fit 6' 3 in
00:14:37
tall 220 to 230 lbs right and was one hell of a kicker there you go then we have the polygraph issues that were
00:14:49
presented at fright Gable's appeal hearing this contends original incriminating testimony came from police
00:14:57
tactics that included the Relentless abuse of polygraph test we have an individual David Rasin a polygraph
00:15:05
expert who examined records in the Gable case and he said in an affidavit filed on Gable's behalf that Witnesses were
00:15:14
quote intensely interrogated pressured coerced and frightened by the angry and sometimes violent behavior of the
00:15:22
interrogators MH he said he found serious misconduct and how police poly graph examiners tested those who
00:15:31
subsequently pointed the finger at gable stating quote unethical and flawed polygraph testing procedures combined
00:15:39
with improper interrogations appear to have provided the means to shape witness statements in order to obtain false
00:15:47
testimony he said Witnesses were polygraphed repeatedly sometimes on the same day jod
00:15:54
Swearingen was given 23 polygraph tests in 12 12 sessions Jesus 23 polygraph tests witness wsh we're going to make
00:16:04
you take that again witness Walsh said in his affidavit that police quote yelled at me because the polygraph
00:16:12
results showed I was lying he says he quote eventually I told the police what I thought they wanted me to say that Mr
00:16:21
Gable confess to me the details of the murder Walsh said Mr Gable never confessed to me end quote all right
00:16:30
Captain here's where we need to get into some of the different conspiracy theories out there regarding this murder
00:16:38
of Michael Frankie because there's several different thoughts out there that have been presented over the years
00:16:44
well first of all everybody put on your 10 hats real quick your little foil hats
00:16:50
going into conspiracy land right right um well the first obviously being the hit um the initial investigation of
00:16:58
Frankie's death centered on parole in the area and prisoners of the state in the State Penitentiary who may have held
00:17:07
a grudge of some sort against Michael Frankie then about a month after the murder rumors and reports began to
00:17:15
surface about corruption within the Oregon Department of Corrections and the agency's possible link to Frankie's
00:17:22
murder M then in September of 1989 Oregon governor goldshmid announced Ed he had appointed retired Judge John C
00:17:31
Warden to head an independent investigation of the Department of Corrections warden's investigation
00:17:38
lasted 3 months his findings according to the final report confirmed the existence of quote significant illegal
00:17:46
activities or other wrongdoings within the department of corrections but he found no reasonable link between those
00:17:54
activities and Michael Frankie's death former State Treasurer Jim Hill does not accept the official verdict do you
00:18:03
accept that do I accept what johnc Warden says I mean I have a real hard time with the idea or the notion that
00:18:12
you're going to have this guy come in and one of the things he's supposed to do is to clean up the system and that
00:18:18
you find corruption within that system and the person that was brought in to find that corruption and to stop that
00:18:25
corruption is then murdered mhm I find that to to to have this notion that that corruption had nothing to do with this
00:18:37
individual is it's that's a weird statement to me it's tough to tough to believe it's hard pills to swallow my
00:18:46
friend and I don't know what they're basing that off of um but you know they did do an extensive investigation now we
00:18:54
do have former State Treasurer Jim Hill as I said does not accept that official IAL verdict uh believing either that
00:19:00
Gable is altogether innocent of the crime or that he or another perpetrator was a hired Hitman rather than a chance
00:19:10
car burglar so this leads us to what are the other possibilities there are several
00:19:16
theories as to who may have been the killer or Killers or who may have ordered a hit on Michael Frankie the
00:19:23
first that we need to talk about is an individual that we named earlier and that that is Timothy natividad so
00:19:30
Timothy AKA rooster natividad was a drug dealer who himself was murdered two weeks after Michael Frankie was murdered
00:19:40
the court filing said that Greg Johnson an associate of natividad's told a defense investigator that he spent time
00:19:48
with natividad around the Time Michael Frankie was killed according to the filing Johnson said he dropped off
00:19:55
natividad at the Dome building remember that's the building where Frankie worked
00:20:00
on the evening of the murder and returned later and remembered natividad saying quote it's not my blood when he
00:20:08
got into the car a few days later he went with natividad to get his payoff two men in a car possibly with Oregon
00:20:17
government license plates pulled up and one of the men handed something to natividad which this gentleman would
00:20:24
well gentleman Johnson would later in fact figure out was $20,000 in cash Johnson says that he recognized the two
00:20:33
men as State Prison officials this is what he said in a court filing so this is official documents that he put these
00:20:40
statements into now there are theories as to who may have been behind the killing and the focus is on two men high
00:20:48
in the corrections hierarchy one individual who has been named is Hoy cup the the former Warden of the Oregon
00:20:57
State penitentiary in 2007 a convicted felon gave a series of interviews to a local newspaper in which he claimed that
00:21:06
he witnessed cup and another unnamed Corrections official pay natividad $20,000 that natividad later informed
00:21:16
him it was a payment for killing Frankie cup died of cancer in 1990 another individual who's been named is Scott
00:21:24
mallister he was the Assistant Attorney General for the state of Oregon until he
00:21:29
resigned shortly before Michael Frankie's death in no relation to Kevin mallister subsequently became Inspector
00:21:36
General of the Utah Corrections Department an ex-girlfriend of mallister told the Portland Tribune that McAlister
00:21:44
had been in possession of internal police documents concerning the murder that he no longer had any official
00:21:52
reason to possess and that she had overheard mallister describe the killing as a botched hit listen to this this is
00:21:59
from a sworn statement made in 1990 by a former secretary and girlfriend of Scott
00:22:07
mallister the woman's name is Linda Parker in her statement Parker says that in July of 1989 she was with mallister
00:22:16
at a party in Utah where she worked for him in his new job Inspector General for
00:22:23
the U Utah Department of Corrections at the party mallister was joined by Oregon
00:22:29
friends who had followed him to work in the Utah prison system Parker claims mallister was trash talking Michael
00:22:36
Frankie and saying the people who had killed him were supposed to make it look like a suicide Parker said quote Scott
00:22:45
was clearly angry over the job being [ __ ] up as he put it said Parker adding that she believed mallister knew
00:22:54
quote inside information about what happened in the Frankie murder should I keep going with this one Captain cuz
00:23:01
there's some stuff here between these two ex-lovers that that it's weird right so in an interview mallister
00:23:11
called Parker a quote documented liar and said there is no truth to her statement adding the whole suggestion is
00:23:20
absurd he said Michael Frankie was a friend of mine Parker's ex-husband this is Jim dreitzler
00:23:28
also questioned Parker's credibility citing mental issues Parker had attempted suicide in late 1989 and was
00:23:36
hospitalized and diagnosed with major depression Parker's statement that has nothing to do with whether or not you're
00:23:43
telling the truth that's correct Parker's statement makes other allegations about mallister that have
00:23:50
been substantiated Elsewhere for instance Parker accused mallister of using his position to pressure her into
00:23:59
group sex and having her he was giving her Kitty porn videos to quote train her the two videotapes she turned over were
00:24:09
traced by law enforcement to mallister causing him to be charged with a child pornography felony charge ultimately he
00:24:16
pled guilty to a misdemeanor in addition a second Utah correction employee came forward saying mallister also tried to
00:24:25
pressure her into group sex causing mallister to be forced out of his Utah job okay
00:24:33
so we have an ex-girlfriend of this mallister who's an ex official in the Oregon State uh hierarchy right however
00:24:45
we do need to keep in mind mallister did resign from that position before Frankie
00:24:50
was murdered I cannot Trace back or figure out when mallister moved from Oregon to Utah saw but that doesn't mean
00:24:59
that he couldn't have had a hand in the conspiracy to kill this guy even after the fact yeah but all you have to do is
00:25:04
follow the kitty porn and you can figure that out so then we have Wayne Holm um who was later killed by a sheriff's
00:25:13
deputy during a reverse sting drug operation Holm was a former inmate in the Oregon correction system during the
00:25:21
early 1980s he assisted numerous other inmates with parole hearing presentations and had known Scott
00:25:28
mallister because mallister represented the parole and probation board during those hearings Hol had offered the
00:25:35
theory that the primary motivation for Michael Frankie's murder was that Frankie discovered a plot by Scott
00:25:42
mallister to sell parols to [Music] inmates this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] cheers mates cheers to you captain and make sure you check out our other show
00:28:20
off the record on Stitcher premium that's right uh let's talk about the man in the pinstripes suit Theory also known
00:28:29
as the abduction Theory the abduction theory is that Michael Frankie was at some point later brought back to the
00:28:37
scene and perhaps he was going to his office to find whatever paperwork or computer files uh may have been in his
00:28:45
office once there he gets out of the car perhaps he sees his only chance for getting away tries to make a break for
00:28:53
it and perhaps receives one or more of his wounds at that that time goes to the north porch where he is finished off now
00:29:01
much speculation has centered on a mysterious man in a pinstriped suit an unknown individual who was spotted by a
00:29:10
Corrections employee inside the corrections Dome building 90 minutes after closing time the individual has
00:29:17
never been identified another Dome building employee who worked as a parole board clerk has stated the man in the
00:29:25
pinstriped suit also matches the description she gave to police as the man who arrived at the Dome building the
00:29:33
day of the murder to repair the copy machine late in the afternoon this individual was granted access to remain
00:29:40
in the building after hours to complete the repairs the repairs were never completed the machine was left in pieces
00:29:48
and neither the man in the pinstriped suit or Dennis plant uh the man who later testified that he was the copy
00:29:56
machine rep repair man but whom the parole board clerk States was not the man who worked on The copier that day
00:30:03
returned to complete the repairs nor was any record of the service call found in
00:30:09
The copier repair log after the murder whether or not the individual has any relation to the killing is unknown the
00:30:16
individual does not resemble that of Frank Gable some believe that Michael was the victim of a premeditated murder
00:30:25
carried out by several men and possibly instigated by high ranking officials fearful of being named in the
00:30:33
investigation according to reporter Steven Jackson an eyewitness at the scene backs up this Theory stating that
00:30:39
at 10:15 or 10:20 on January 17th a young man riding in a car looked over where the scene of the crime was and saw
00:30:49
five to six men running toward a Volkswagen van if Michael Frankie had been abducted and then brought back to
00:30:57
the building where he was killed this would fit in with the abduction Theory this Theory suggests that on the night
00:31:05
of his death Michael unlocked his his own car and deactivated the alarm at the same time the men approached him Michael
00:31:14
did not keep regular office hours except for Tuesday staff meetings so it appeared the attackers were familiar
00:31:22
with his schedule that night several people reported seeing a man with a pinstripe suit and a dark complexion
00:31:30
lurking in the corrections building after hours a composite drawing based on a witness description was made and this
00:31:38
Theory also makes sense too because we don't see Frankie we lose track of Frankie between 6:30 and 12:30 yeah we
00:31:46
have almost 6 hours where he's unaccounted for now we can't say for certain that the area in which he was
00:31:51
later found dead was searched before 12:30 but what we can say is people were looking for him and did not discover him
00:31:59
until that time now here's a theory that I really like and I'm not saying that I
00:32:05
favor this one over the others but the reason why I like it is because it kind of ties some of the other thoughts and
00:32:11
theories together you know you say well how can you have these theories that don't seem to have anything to do with
00:32:18
one another this one is interesting and this is the theory of Kevin Frankie Kevin is Michael Frankie's younger
00:32:25
brother and he assisted with that movie without evidence so his theory goes something like this that he depicts
00:32:34
Scott mallister who we already talked about as a corrupt bureaucrat who was cozy with inmates and benefited from
00:32:43
some kind of Black Market prison trade and Michael Frankie threatened to Halt Scott McAllister's dealings so then
00:32:50
mallister turned to underworld Associates including Timothy natividad the murder plot Frankie maintains called
00:32:58
for natividad and two other men to force Michael Frankie into his car and drive off kill him somewhere else and make it
00:33:07
look like a suicide but something went wrong and Frankie fought back and natividad ended up killing him there on
00:33:15
the scene or at least stabbing him there on the scene I like that theory because it
00:33:21
actually ties like three of the theories together and might be why that there's rumors of Theory a being Right theory B
00:33:29
being right or Theory C being right so within that one we have Scott mallister who is thought to be corrupt and be up
00:33:37
to no good who who does already make deals with known criminals and inmates MH then turning to Timothy natividad
00:33:46
who's a known criminal and other individuals to get rid of Michael Frankie now while we are on the subject
00:33:52
of Kevin Frankie Michael Frankie's younger brother let's get into into this a little bit because you know how we
00:33:59
often find these almost unbelievable smaller stories inside some of these cases M well here's a weird one so we
00:34:08
have Kevin Frankie but we have Kevin Frankie's wife his wife later is Elizabeth who was formerly Elizabeth
00:34:18
goodlove who at one time at the actually at the time of Michael Frankie's murder
00:34:24
was Timothy natividad's girlfriend Elizabeth godlove shot and killed Timothy natividad two weeks after
00:34:31
Michael Frankie's death a jury acquitted her that spring after she claimed natividad had been abusing her for years
00:34:40
and had held a gun to her head the day that she killed him Elizabeth godlove and Kevin Frankie married in
00:34:48
1994 so is it possible that during her trial that he follows her trial they might have even met at the courthouse
00:34:56
yeah I I don't know because they thought that you know his death might have something to do with his brother's death
00:35:03
well let's look at her story just a little bit more uh in detail so in August of 1990 Elizabeth godlove told
00:35:12
Frank Gable's defense team that Timothy natividad came home in a panic during the early morning hours quote on or
00:35:21
about the night of Michael Frankie's murder she noticed a wound on his leg and a gash on his head then a day or two
00:35:30
later Timothy natividad told her he'd killed a man but when God love relayed the story to the police in September of
00:35:39
1990 she said she couldn't be certain the night natividad arrived home with the wounds was the same night that
00:35:47
Michael Frankie was stabbed police ran down leads on Timothy natividad testing his knives and clothing but they found
00:35:55
no link to the murder murder mhm so then you could take it as possible one or another motive for Timothy natividad to
00:36:04
kill Michael Frankie either he was involved in a conspiracy to get rid of him and he was hired as remember we have
00:36:11
that other individual that said he was with natividad for portions of the night that Michael Frankie was killed and
00:36:18
picked him up at the scene and he had blood on him or did natividad simply was he part of the criminal element that was
00:36:27
pedling drugs in and out of the prison system right and that he needed to off the guy that was going to that stumbled
00:36:36
upon how the workings of that were taking place and intended to shut it down right but that's all connected to
00:36:43
higher individuals in the prison system anyways yes very possibly but not 100% that it has to be well I just think it
00:36:52
could be a it's could be a combination of a lot of these things and it seems like
00:36:57
there's a lot of money to go around and probably a lot of greed well there's definitely corruption and here's the
00:37:04
reason why when when you and I spoke earlier about um the judges ruling stating that hey I found corruption
00:37:11
within the prison system but I found no link between that and the murder of Michael Frankie and you said hey I
00:37:18
disagree with that statement because if there was corruption this guy was sent to find it it's very likely that that
00:37:24
led to his murder well on top of that we have files of his missing I mean that's
00:37:29
again evidence of that possibly he found corruption and now we don't have evidence of that those are rumors though
00:37:37
that's what we got to be clear of rumors that files of his were missing well right but we know that his computer's
00:37:43
missing correct we do know that so if somebody's saying hey Frankie's laptop is missing possibly there's files
00:37:50
missing and then on top of that there I mean there was some activity in his office right of of things going missing
00:37:59
so well no the the items in his office would just simply be rumor unless somebody could prove that his briefcase
00:38:06
and laptop were in his office at the time that he was killed elsewhere mhm and what I mean by that is look there's
00:38:14
rumor that he stumbled upon corruption and the thought is that well he would have had proof of such and if he did
00:38:21
then they might have been in files or in his briefcase or in on his laptop right
00:38:26
therefore if it was a conspiracy to uh buy the the corrupted to shut this man down that they would have wanted to
00:38:34
steal those files steal that laptop steal that briefcase what I'm getting at is I agree with you I I think it's fair
00:38:42
to make that leap if there is corruption if you do find corruption to think that
00:38:47
it could have led to Michael Frankie's murder but where I can't say that for certain with 100% certainty is this I
00:38:55
personally believe that there is some level of corruption in every State's prison system within the United States a
00:39:02
that's a scary thought don't even get me started on it well I mean there just is
00:39:06
I mean I I I would be I would be shocked if anybody working in any of those States Corrections uh systems if anybody
00:39:16
would come forward and say Nick you're absolutely wrong there is zero corruption at all in our prison system
00:39:22
here in the state of Kentucky in Ohio in Michigan New York California Texas whatever and what do you think it's like
00:39:28
you know when when you now have privately owned prisons so well it but I want to be it's going to just get worse
00:39:36
I want to be clear here I I'm not trying to point out that I think that every State's prison system is corrupt from
00:39:42
the top to bottom M corruption can be as something as simple as a a guard selling
00:39:49
cigarettes to inmates I mean that's that's the absolute truth of it so what I'm saying is I can see how they could
00:39:58
find certain levels of corruption in their prison system but also believe that it did not lead to his murder you
00:40:06
see what I'm saying oh I see it so the thing too regarding the files though those files are only rumored to
00:40:15
have been destroyed and what I mean by that is let's say Frankie actually didn't discover any corruption then he
00:40:23
would have those files would never have existed right the other thing too is the
00:40:27
briefcase in the laptop if they were on his person when he was stabbed maybe it was just taken by whoever stabbed him
00:40:35
and that person wasn't there to stab him because they were hired to kill him mhm
00:40:41
um so I or or the opposite though too I mean there could have just been rumors again we have these rumors about these
00:40:48
files we have these rumors about this laptop so if you do have high levels of corruption they go hey we got to take
00:40:55
down this guy Frankie well what if they take him out then they go he didn't have
00:41:00
anything on us didn't have anything on our corruption yet or didn't have detailed
00:41:06
you know reports mhm uh but then there was a confession um and this was by a guy named John Krauss he's a man from
00:41:17
Salem who was on Parole for a robbery he was on Parole at the time of Michael Frankie's murder he later repeatedly
00:41:25
confessed to murdering Michael Frankie telling numerous Law Enforcement Officers as well as his own mother
00:41:32
brother and girlfriend that he stabbed Michael Frankie when Michael caught him burglarizing his car on January 17th
00:41:42
1989 so the the other Frank was just a py so Frank Gable yeah the convicted murderer of Michael Frankie his defense
00:41:51
team said that John krauss's confession was consistent with the crime scene and and the autopsy evidence corroborated by
00:41:59
eyewitness testimony and considered truthful by an FBI polygrapher who was flown in from out of state to test him
00:42:08
so Krauss called it quote just a freak accident saying he got into Frankie's car and Frankie found him in it and
00:42:16
asked him what he was doing he says I tried to hit him where I could knock him out the next thing I know I stabbed the
00:42:25
guy I stabbed him in the in the arm and he says I didn't intend to kill the guy The Krauss described how
00:42:32
Frankie confronted him offering a physical description of Frankie who in the autopsy was described as 6'3
00:42:39
weighing between 2 20 to 230 lbs Krauss said that Frankie punched him with significant force and that is when
00:42:49
Krauss stabbed Frankie mhm now there of course are doubts about this confession we have attorney Nicholas cstom from the
00:42:58
Oregon Department of Justice countered that krauss's confession came after he provided police with at least four
00:43:04
differing accounts of what had occurred he gave varied descriptions of the clothing he wore at the scene as well as
00:43:13
the route he took to flee the area coustom suggested that during the interviews Krauss had with police that
00:43:21
the investigators may have fed him information along the way the state could never corroborate krauss's account
00:43:27
of what occurred according to this uh cstom individual right right right but you can you can feed him all the
00:43:34
information you want you can feed them all the evidence you want all the crime scene information you want now you got
00:43:40
to pass a polygraph and that's not to say that they can't pay that guy off or whatever but you still got to pass a
00:43:47
polygraph well what's interesting here though is that we have assistant Federal public defender uh for Frank Gable who
00:43:57
later called it a troubling double standard stating if the state is now arguing that John krauss's confession
00:44:05
may have been contaminated by investigators questions or media accounts of what occurred but hasn't
00:44:12
applied that same standard to other key Witnesses who have since recanted their earlier statements that place Gable at
00:44:19
the scene of the crime mhm not other key Witnesses every key witness right you know come on yeah and I think that's
00:44:28
very interesting here right so we have this guy who confesses and they say nope the the police un you know
00:44:36
unintentionally altered this guy's statement Well here here's the thing is I don't really give a [ __ ] that he is
00:44:43
confessing to the cops right it's more the fact that one you're passing a polygraph but two you're confessing to
00:44:50
your mother and your brother and your family it sounds like just about anybody that was willing to listen he was was
00:44:56
confessing to right but what I what I mean by that is I'm going to put more weight into that why why are you go why
00:45:02
would you add heartache to your mother M for a lie mhm mom I did this I want to come
00:45:10
clean I want to you know and that's what it exactly sounds like doesn't it Captain it sounds like this individual
00:45:16
that that kind of panicked in the freak moment if we believe a story he got punched by this large man and he kind of
00:45:22
which would punch you yeah that's what every every body says about Michael Frankie this is the kind of dude he
00:45:28
didn't back down from just about anything well and Frankie just didn't know that he was bringing his fist to
00:45:35
cuffs to a knife fight right and it sounds like if John Krauss is telling the truth that his intentions weren't to
00:45:43
kill Frankie it sounds like oh he hit me real hard I can't throw blow I can't trade blows with this guy right I'm
00:45:50
going to I'm just going to have to get him real quick and go and and make and maybe he just intended to get him in the
00:45:58
arm or in the hand or something like that and and unfortunately got him directly in the heart well and as far as
00:46:04
Frank Gable is concerned it it seems like all these other theories and then plus this confession which basically is
00:46:15
what they're claiming Frank Gable did mhm they're basically saying well but you're just changing the characters with
00:46:22
his confession and again by the way passes a polygraph and the guy sits in jail well and you wonder too if there's
00:46:30
no physical evidence to convict Frank Gable then why maybe there isn't any physical evidence because he's not your
00:46:38
guy and like you said the the story that John Krauss lays out for you is the same
00:46:46
theory that the prosecutors put forth at trial right it's just the difference is
00:46:50
you have one guy who's saying this is what I did I did I did exactly what the prosecution said and my name is John
00:46:57
Krauss and then you have another guy who's saying man I'm completely innocent don't stop looking for the killer cuz
00:47:03
he's actually out there and my name is Frank Gable so we should mention the Innocence Project has taken on Frank
00:47:10
Gable's case uh and looked at this thing several times in attempts to get him please you know or not please appeals uh
00:47:19
granted for his conviction so you know us presenting these conspiracy theories um it's not a lot of ookie cooky dookie
00:47:28
you know it's it's um say what people smarter than us have looked at Frank Gable's case and questioned his guilt
00:47:35
and questioned the verdict of such yeah ookie cooky dookie that's right that means
00:47:42
it it means it's poopy means it's ookie poopy doopy means it's poopy so the problem with this case captain and I
00:47:52
think it's extremely obvious to everyone is that this case is complicated I mean
00:47:58
we have Michael Frankie who was brought into end corruption in the Oregon prison
00:48:04
system Michael Frankie discovers or may have discovered deep corruption very high up in the prison system chain of
00:48:11
command and then he's murdered prior to the release of the details of his findings right his briefcase and
00:48:19
possibly other paperwork disappear and are never found now the interesting thing to me though is that we three
00:48:26
months later three months after the murder is when John Krauss confesses to his family that he killed Michael
00:48:34
Frankie in a botched robbery then we have police who later ignore this confession the investigation takes 15
00:48:42
months and they arrest Frank Gable no physical evidence ever links Gable to the crime Gable's sentenced but very few
00:48:51
people believe he is in fact guilty all of the people who test T ified against cable recanted their testimony so I ask
00:49:00
you Captain as we take a look at these theories that we've discussed today how do you feel on some th certain things
00:49:08
how do you feel about Frank Gable do you think that he's guilty or make him take
00:49:13
a li detector do you think that if I was going to represent him as the innocent project is putting time and effort into
00:49:21
him and make him take a lie detector if he can pass that then okay we can start there do you think that there was a hit
00:49:28
taken out on Michael Frankie no I mean I think there I don't know I mean it's like I said the 3 months after the
00:49:37
murder you have somebody confessing you have somebody confessing to their family
00:49:41
the police don't take that serious because they got their guy again their the state's case and
00:49:48
what the evidence kind of shows us is that it's more likely a botch robbery mhm and then K's the story lines up so
00:49:57
why wouldn't you believe him especially he passes the test that does not mean there wasn't corruption there doesn't
00:50:04
that doesn't mean that Frankie wasn't going to find it and he might have and and and probably his
00:50:11
murder scared a lot of people to death oh yeah yeah you're you're probably right even if the murderer
00:50:19
didn't know about Michael Frankie's job or who Michael Frankie was or what he could have stumbled upon or found what
00:50:26
he was looking for I guess we should say so I'm with you um as far as Frank Gable
00:50:33
goes I think unfortunately it's it's not very probable that he was the Killer and
00:50:40
just because the zero evidence Factor because of all of the witnesses recanting their stories MH um then we
00:50:48
also have the added element of the interrogation process and the polygraph process for all of those most of those
00:50:57
Witnesses seems to be not normal irregular right coer the difficult thing is that you know Frankie was high up in
00:51:08
the prison system and so that put pressure on the police to solve it but also again with the
00:51:17
corruption if there's higher levels of corruption those people are connected to people on the law enforcement and
00:51:23
they're going to solve this thing get this closed get the heat off of us it was a robbery that's it right so I think
00:51:34
partly because of the corruption is why we have this innocent man behind bars as
00:51:41
far as the hit Theory goes or the different hit theories that are out there I also question this thought
00:51:47
because here my thought is usually this when there is a hit put out and when the
00:51:52
hit is carried out usually usually the target is is killed and the offender knows that the
00:52:02
target is dead when they leave the area and what I mean by that is most of the evidence and most of what the medical
00:52:09
examiner as well as other investigators in this case have stated is they believe
00:52:15
that Michael Frankie was attacked near his vehicle and then was able to to flee right and attempt to get help where he
00:52:24
would have survived and been able to tell us what happened to him who attacked him and that doesn't work out
00:52:31
very well for a hit doesn't sound like a hit and then also the you know the rumors were that we need to make it look
00:52:37
like a suicide if that's the case the hit didn't even try to make it look like a suicide and then even with on the
00:52:44
abduction Theory same thing let's make it look like a suicide you're going to tell me that you're going to take this
00:52:51
person in a van we're talking about 63 225 lb 235 lbs you're going to take him in a van with three guys and then when
00:53:00
you when you bring him back he's still going to move around alive I because the evidence seems like
00:53:10
he moved from his car to the second floor if that's the case then you you brought him back somewhat alive right
00:53:19
and that that makes no sense so I mean if you're going to abduct somebody for the purpose of shutting the up for good
00:53:26
MH you're going to shut him up for good the only thing that stops me from ruling
00:53:31
out the possibility of a hit 100% is the fact that we have the situation with Scott mallister and Linda Parker where
00:53:40
she states that she overheard mallister basically telling a bunch of guys that the it was a hit however the people that
00:53:47
were hired to carry it out really screwed it up you know unless this was a hit that was really screwed up yeah but
00:53:54
he hear me out it is possible like I said there's possible that all these things are happening at the same time
00:54:00
and you have a hit that's going out but you don't know when that hit is going to
00:54:03
happen right you don't know if it's that day or whatever and so it could have just simply been um talked about on
00:54:12
these high level people the high level people that are in the prison system working with the criminals saying hey
00:54:19
you need to take care of this these criminals or drug dealers or whatever they're not in the bus business of
00:54:25
putting in hits and so this this car Breakin happens mhm and then mallister calls his guys hey what
00:54:36
happened they go well he he got away and they had nothing to do with it you see what I'm saying they're covering their
00:54:44
ass well the interesting thing is we have and I wow you just stumbled upon something here Captain because we have
00:54:51
Michael Frankie who's last scene alive about 6:30 p.m. on the 17th the newspapers on the 18th said Frankie ma
00:55:00
or sorry Michael Frankie has been murdered the newspapers the very next day say Michael Frankie was murdered
00:55:08
right so guess what if you're somebody that ordered that hit and then you make a phone call you go well I guess the
00:55:15
deed is done question mark right like I hired you to kill this guy and now I'm reading the newspaper and he's dead MH
00:55:23
and the the medical examiner saying it was is 100% a homicide that's interesting could
00:55:29
somebody have paid Scott mallister or some of his group paid Timothy natividad and a guy or two to kill Michael Frankie
00:55:39
or a guy and a girl and John Krauss for some reason shows up breaks into Michael
00:55:44
Frankie's car on the 17th stabs him accidentally unintentionally kills Michael Frankie and Timothy natividad
00:55:53
says you're deed was carried out my friend thanks for the money I'll meet you here on Tuesday for the
00:56:02
[Music] payoff ukie cookie dookie all right Captain how about a little recommended reading yes
00:56:23
sir this week we are recommend ing love and greed in the Heartland the Richmond Hill murders this is the story of an
00:56:31
insurance fraud scheme gone fatally wrong on an Autumn night in Richmond Hill what was meant to be a small fire
00:56:38
mushroomed into a major explosion and the largest homicide investigation in Indiana's history make sure you check
00:56:46
out love and greed in the Heartland by Robert snow and Russ McQuade and you don't have to write that title down now
00:56:54
you can simply go go to our website true Crim garage.com and click on the recommended page and we have all of our
00:57:00
books recommended there for you yeah and make sure you check out our store page as well we have a bunch of different
00:57:06
shirts we also have a Tumblr mug Koozies all that stuff uh we ship them out every
00:57:12
Friday and if you have any merchandise ideas that you'd like to see in the store you can always email me at cap
00:57:19
true Crim garage.com until next week everybody keep it real keep it clean be good be kind and don't let
00:57:26
[Music] [Applause] [Music] her Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
00:57:59
thought it was an Eco move fewer words less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic must be
00:58:07
a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service instantly
00:58:14
and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than just a list
00:58:21
get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the today