00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details Rosetta Stone
00:00:32
is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the rap to learn French and it's not just about
00:00:37
memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now
00:00:44
Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever
00:00:51
for anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a game
00:00:58
changer [Music] [Music] it's been more than 3 weeks since the murders of four University of Idaho
00:01:44
students and police are starting to Reed toxicology reports on the victim's hair
00:01:48
fibers blood and DNA according to law enforcement all considered critical evidence from the crime scene the case
00:01:55
remains unsolved police still have not found a murder weapon or named a suspect but investigators saying today they are
00:02:02
trying to provide information while protecting the Integrity of the investigation saying in a statement we
00:02:08
firmly believe speculation and unvetted information is a disservice to the victims their families and our community
00:02:14
the stabbing deaths of these four students has created turmoil at the University and in the quiet community of
00:02:19
Moscow that hasn't recorded a single murder since [Music] 2015 [Music] less than one month ago in Idaho on
00:02:53
Sunday November 13th for University of Idaho students were killed in an off campus house that same morning at 11:58
00:03:04
a.m. someone called 911 and reported an unconscious person Moscow Police Department responded and located four
00:03:13
victims two on the second floor of the home and two on the third floor the 911 call came from inside the home where the
00:03:21
victims were killed using a survivor's cell phone an autopsy was conducted and confirmed the identity
00:03:30
of the four victims there's one male victim and three female victims forgive me please if I mispronounce any of the
00:03:38
victim's names as I am going off of the Moscow police press conference pronunciations the victims were
00:03:45
identified as Ethan chapen a 20-year-old freshman from Conway Washington we also
00:03:52
have Madison Mogan a 21-year-old senior from cordelane Idaho we have Kaylee Gonzalez age 21 also a senior from wrath
00:04:02
drum Idaho and we have Zanna Carnot a junior she was 20 years of age and from Post Falls Idaho and like you said
00:04:12
there's four victims but there's six individuals that live in the house yes it's a little tricky on the details
00:04:20
about the home itself and as it's reported there were six people in total at the home during the times of the
00:04:30
attack it's been reported that six people possibly live in the home now of the four victims not all of them were
00:04:39
people that actually lived in the home according to the limited information released regarding the autopsies all
00:04:47
four victims were stabbed to death all four victims are believed to have been asleep when the attacks started some of
00:04:55
the victims had defensive wounds there were no signs of sexual assault in regards to the home where the victims
00:05:01
were found this is a rental house just off campus the three women victims were renters and roommates at the home Ethan
00:05:11
chapen the lone male victim was Zanna carnot's boyfriend and he was staying the night when the four were killed and
00:05:21
as you pointed out Captain we have two surviving roommates the two other roommates were present that night when
00:05:28
the victims were killed they lived at the rental house with Madison kayy and Zanna and I believe
00:05:34
their initial claims were that they were asleep during the attacks that morning when one of the victims was discovered
00:05:41
to be unconscious by one or both of the surviving roommates they called a third party so someone or someone's from
00:05:49
outside of the home then comes to the home and shortly afterward a call to 911 is placed it has been reported that the
00:05:58
call initially came from someone not a roommate of the victims but someone using a roommate's cell phone police
00:06:06
have released very little details about this 911 call one detail is that the 911
00:06:13
operator spoke to several persons that morning and again the call came from one of the roommates cell phones yeah
00:06:21
initially there was some speculation that the 911 call came from the actual killer but I don't actually believe that
00:06:28
that that is the case yes that was one of the questions that was asked of the Moscow police department at the press
00:06:36
conference and that was quickly shot down so it was asked did the call come from the Killer and they said no plain
00:06:46
and simple no the call did not come from the killer from what it looks like to me
00:06:51
Captain is that somebody responds to this call a civilian responds to this call for help come comes over to help
00:07:00
and may have brought a person or two with them or in the course of trying to help an additional person or two arrives
00:07:07
it sounds like there were multiple people that were in the home when police arrive on the scene then unfortunately
00:07:16
they discover two victims having been killed on the second floor of the home and then two additional victims that
00:07:24
were killed on the third floor of the home it's been reported that all four victims were me MERS of fraternities and
00:07:31
sororities Ethan chapen was a triplet his brother Hunter and his sister Mae are also University of Idaho students
00:07:42
Ethan was a member of the sigma Kai fraternity according to the university Zanna carod was a junior majoring in
00:07:51
marketing and a member of the pi beta fi sorority Madison Mogan was a senior also
00:07:59
majoring in marketing who belong to Pi beta fi and Kaylee Gonzalez was a senior majoring in General Studies and a member
00:08:09
of the alpha fi sorority this according to the university the killings of shaken
00:08:15
Moscow an Idaho Panhandle town of 25,000 residents this city has not had a homicide in about five years leading up
00:08:25
to the events of November 13th of this year for those not familiar with the area the college town is located about
00:08:34
80 miles south of Spokane Washington the university is just a few minutes drive from the Washington Idaho state border I
00:08:44
was looking at this the other day captain and it looks like maybe a five minute drive from the campus area to the
00:08:52
Border you go west past the Applebees and then very quickly you are in the great state of Washington yeah I know
00:08:59
they suspended classes for a little bit and then then continued classes but I think it was during the Thanksgiving
00:09:08
week you know when they're only in school for a couple days where a lot of students weren't going to class and the
00:09:14
university said well you don't have to attend class but you can attend online and I just thought it's a three-day week
00:09:22
this is a this is a mass murder just shut down school for a few days and just let these kids go home and feel safe
00:09:31
cuzz at that time and and maybe still to this date we don't have a very good idea
00:09:36
of who this killer is that's exactly right so the Moscow police chief his name is James fry he has reminded us
00:09:45
almost daily that they have not identified a suspect or found the murder weapon what you're talking about leads
00:09:54
to what I find to be something that seems to be highly debated not just on online but more importantly on the
00:10:01
campus itself where the general public keeps asking the police for clarification is there a threat to the
00:10:10
community here right so on November 15th this is two days after the murders the Moscow police say they preliminarily
00:10:19
believe this was an isolated targeted attack and there is no imminent threat to the community at large that's their
00:10:29
words verbatim and that evidence quote and sorry and that quote evidence indicates that this was a targeted
00:10:37
attack other statements that are very similar say the killings came in an isolated targeted attack and there is no
00:10:44
imminent threat to the community at large police also said evidence from the scene indicates there is no broader risk
00:10:52
but provided no information about the evidence nor why they believe the victims were targeted the following day
00:10:59
police backtracked some of that saying they could not actually say whether there was a threat to the public or not
00:11:06
yeah and Layman speak they're basically saying we think we have evidence that points that these are these crimes took
00:11:13
place because of the victims somebody that they were connected to was most likely the killer this is what happens
00:11:21
in any of these cases especially when we have multiple victims so Barry and honey
00:11:26
Sherman media was asking right away way from Jump Street the same question do we
00:11:31
have a threat here to the community should we should we all be concerned should be we be scared for our lives
00:11:39
when the two girls were killed in Deli Indiana that was the first question that police were answering time and time
00:11:46
again and then of course this is the question that keeps popping up over and over again especially this first week
00:11:52
and here's here's where my feelings are on this and I'm I'm not calling anybody out but my feelings on this are yes I
00:12:02
don't care if this was a targeted attack or not I don't care if Deli was targeted
00:12:06
or not or honey and Barry Sherman any of these cases when you have somebody who has been murdered and the Killer is
00:12:15
still out there and you know very little about the crime itself or you have very
00:12:20
few leads on how to track this individual down who's responsible for the homicide there is a threat to the
00:12:27
community whether it's targeted or not you know I had this conversation the other day we were talking about the
00:12:34
Nancy eagleson homicide and as you know captain and and longtime listeners of this show knows that's a 62y old case
00:12:44
and the longer that a case drags on without result without a solution the more suspicious people get so in Nancy's
00:12:52
case depending on who you talk to you could have a dozen decent suspects in their mind and and the question that
00:13:00
kept coming up time and time again iswell if you had to narrow it down Nick who would be your number one or your top
00:13:08
three and my answer to that was simply look we have all these people that that you question and say they could be
00:13:19
responsible for ny's murder however there are two people on that list that killed other individuals and for me that
00:13:28
prior prioritizes them much more than these other suspects in my mind simply because of the fact that these two
00:13:37
individuals are capable we know they're capable of murder because they've done it before and so that in itself is a
00:13:48
threat to the public thank God most of us are not capable of murdering another individual well I think most of us are
00:13:55
capable of murdering somebody we just choose not to be Giant douche waffles what we have here on the campus in the
00:14:03
surrounding communities of the University of Idaho whether you like it or not or whether it was targeted or not
00:14:09
you have someone or some ones that were capable of going into a home and attacking four individuals in their
00:14:16
sleep and murdering them that person or persons will always be capable of doing that again there is a threat whether the
00:14:25
police want to admit it whether the university wants to admit it or not regardless if this is targeted there is
00:14:32
in fact a threat to that community and in fact there's a threat to the surrounding communities as long as this
00:14:37
person stays at large yeah you sing it sister police are Desperately Seeking information in this case they are also
00:14:43
seeking surveillance footage it has been several weeks so they've had some time to collect that information and
00:14:50
potential footage and they have uh been able to do so and had some success with that but they really need any type of
00:14:58
public assist and any help that can be provided to them in this case as said we are reminded almost daily from the
00:15:05
Moscow police chief that they have not identified a suspect or found a murder weapon so they need your help they need
00:15:14
our help information can be phoned in at 20888 37180 also tips can be emailed to the
00:15:26
following address that is tipline at c. moscow.id do us and you don't have to write any of that information down that
00:15:37
will be in today's show notes so if you need to refer to that in the future we'll have that available for you well
00:15:45
if you're a law enforcement and you're showing up to the scene the first thing you have to do is that we have two
00:15:51
surviving people that lived in the house that were at the house at the time you have to vet them
00:15:59
I think first cuz I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to look at
00:16:03
them as possible suspects but then they brought in other individuals to that crime scene so that makes it even more
00:16:11
difficult the more people that are at these houses it becomes more difficult for law enforcement and also anybody
00:16:18
that's been to college knows you have multiple House parties so that means there's thousands and thousands of
00:16:27
handprints and DN a and and so much stuff that makes this crime scene I think a lot harder for for law
00:16:35
enforcement yeah this is a difficult case for for many reasons and we've talked about this before that of course
00:16:41
your the victim Social Circle is going to be where you will most likely find your perpetrator and now we have to
00:16:51
times that by four we have four victims here so we have police on record saying that at least at one point in their
00:17:00
investigation they believ that this was a targeted attack meaning one or all of these victims were targeted but this is
00:17:09
a very bizarre crime to try to investigate one because the totality of the number of potential suspects the
00:17:18
number of potential Witnesses because you have four victims everything's Times by four here and then the bizarre nature
00:17:27
of the crime scene itself and how it possibly went down because here you have four people that were killed inside this
00:17:36
home but investigators what little information is coming out one thing that they have told us is they believe and
00:17:43
we'll go through a a timeline here in a bit but they believe that the other two victims the surviving victims two people
00:17:50
that lived there at the home were present at the time of the murders and they were not attacked they
00:17:57
had no injuries what happened and how does this go down and how is unfortunately the perpetrator or
00:18:03
perpetrator successful in getting into this home carrying out these attacks and yet we have two unharmed
00:18:13
individuals that we don't know what kind of information if any they are able to provide to law enforcement yeah it's
00:18:19
very confusing because we don't think there are eyewitnesses we don't think these roommates were ear Witnesses but
00:18:27
then they call 91 one and say that somebody's unconscious but they should have seen the blood everywhere I mean
00:18:33
this is a massive bloody murder scene the three topics that I want to make sure that we get to and we're not going
00:18:40
to be able to get into everything with this case here today because a lot of it is still speculation and rumor at this
00:18:48
point we've had so many people hit us up and say when will you guys be talking about the University of Idaho murders
00:18:58
and we know that this is something that's that's in the media right now it's on the front lines of the media and
00:19:05
being asked that we felt a duty to to deliver some information here today and partly I believe captain that it is our
00:19:14
duty to deliver some information here today because I'm already starting to see some strange things coming out in
00:19:23
this case that are very likely not true or not a part of this case I want to Ste
00:19:28
clear of those items today and stick to what we do know for certain we can get into some speculation along the way but
00:19:36
I want to kind of stick to the path that has been created The Narrative that has
00:19:41
been created through the survivors and through local law enforcement working this case because as we've seen in other
00:19:50
cases that there's a lot of strange things that pop up there's a lot of things that are created out of makeb
00:19:57
believe and cases and then when you get closer to the case being solved or once the case is solved you realize oh those
00:20:05
those things that seem like they were almost out of a horror flick or off of the movie screen that seemed like they
00:20:11
probably weren't true well now we know that they aren't true so again we won't know what's going on in in a large
00:20:18
portion of this case until they find the person or person's responsible obviously
00:20:23
but I think it's important to deliver and remind everybody of what information is out there because that's how you're
00:20:31
going to have to build your case that's what detectives are going to use to build their case and this is not
00:20:38
something where anybody is sitting there sitting on their hands hoping that somebody's going to phone in the correct
00:20:45
information no we have the police department we have a lot of state police involved already in this case we have
00:20:53
the FBI Behavioral Science unit that has been sent to the area we have local state FBI agents as well for Idaho that
00:21:02
have been on scene since very early on in this case so we got a lot of very capable agencies and persons working
00:21:10
this case and things might start moving a little quickly here yes a lot to dive into on this strange case but first
00:21:18
let's take a quick beer [Music] break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
00:21:44
you look forward to the holidays maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's
00:21:50
natural to feel some sadness or even anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can
00:21:56
counteract some of those feelings therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel
00:22:03
grounded and to give you the tools to manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better
00:22:10
help a try it's entirely online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to
00:22:15
your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist
00:22:21
to any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with better help visit betterhelp.com /ar
00:22:29
today to get 10% off your first month that's better help hp.com garage Rosetta Stone is the language
00:22:41
learning program with a lasting impact I've been using the WRA to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words
00:22:46
but actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an
00:22:53
awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen
00:23:00
on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger tired of the same old game
00:23:10
nights looking for a fun New activity to do with your family your partner your friends or by yourself then huntter
00:23:17
killer is for you with huntter killer you get to be the detective you'll need to sort through evidence piece together
00:23:24
Clues and solve the case with an immersive murder mystery name pick from Standalone Single part crime cases
00:23:31
multi-chapter mystery boxes jigsaw puzzles or my favorite books plus they offer an exclusive monthly subscription
00:23:39
storyline that unfolds over 6 months huntter killer has different difficulty levels and storylines so you can
00:23:47
customize it to your interest and skill level and the items in the Box are realistic they feel authentic and
00:23:54
they're pretty cool you'll probably want to keep them when you're done playing the game game plus there's a
00:23:59
spoiler-free online community of over 100,000 members if players get stuck or want to chat about True Crime I love
00:24:08
huntter killer I've been playing for several years now and as I've already pointed out my favorite is the books but
00:24:15
when I get my box for hunter killer and the Mystery Begins I love to sift through the clues and the evidence I
00:24:24
love the puzzles I love the ciphers and most of of all I love playing the game with my friends also they have
00:24:33
collaborations with Nancy Drew Agatha Christie and Blair Witch do you have what it takes to hunt a killer learn
00:24:40
more at huntakiller.com garage and use promo code garage for $10 off your [Music]
00:24:56
purchase all right cheers thanks for joining us for this special episode cheers to everybody cheers to
00:25:12
you Captain cheers to all of our faithful listeners out there and a cheers and our thoughts and prayers go
00:25:19
out to all the staff and classmates and family members of these four victims we understand that these are trying times
00:25:29
and we hope that this investigation gets some legs and takes off soon and starts
00:25:36
heading in a very good direction I feel like law enforcement is currently doing everything that they can of course
00:25:44
they're not sharing a whole lot of information so there has been some frustration on the part of the public
00:25:51
and students at the University there which I completely understand but for the time being we need to keep in mind
00:26:00
that they are trying their very hardest they're putting a lot of resources on this investigation hopefully they'll
00:26:06
have a suspect in their sites here pretty soon I do want to point out here Captain because we typically don't cover
00:26:14
a case that is just so recent you know we we covered Deli back in 2017 but we covered it in in May and it
00:26:25
took place in February and we were one of the first to cover it but usually with these cases if you get inside of 90
00:26:33
days of when the case takes place of the day in question there's not a whole lot
00:26:38
of information unless you have an arrest that takes place within 244872 hours of the case itself this is
00:26:46
a very active investigation as we said with not a lot of information coming out but I do want to point out the
00:26:52
information that we are delivering here today has been compiled through several sources
00:26:58
and those include but are not limited to the university itself the Moscow police
00:27:03
the following news outlets which are ABC CNN Fox and the national desk now there
00:27:11
are three things that we want to make sure that we hit on here today and your mom again we should be learning more
00:27:19
information in this case and hopefully sooner rather than later but we're going to go with what we have here today those
00:27:26
three additional items that I would like to make sure that we cover we have a timeline that has been put together that
00:27:32
has really started to flesh itself out it's not in great detail that's one of the things that investigators are hoping
00:27:39
the public will come forward with more additional information to help them continue to flesh out this timeline of
00:27:47
the four victims and their the people in their Social Circles we have some I'm calling them additional autopsy
00:27:54
information but it's more of comments that were made on the record from the County
00:28:00
coroner and we also have some additional house information as we know we talk about this every single week here in the
00:28:07
garage the the keys to these investigations are learning as much as you can about the crime scene learning
00:28:14
as much as you can about the victims and their surroundings and also the investigation itself do you have
00:28:22
anything that you think we should prioritize and Tackle first here Captain the floor is your
00:28:27
kind sir let's go with some of the additional house information that we have and then we'll circle into the
00:28:34
timeline the house information the crime scene itself is what makes this case so
00:28:40
mindboggling to me and many others out there it's very difficult to believe that someone or some once could sneak
00:28:50
into this home attack and kill four individuals you have two other individuals that that
00:28:57
live in the home that are said to have been present and likely sleeping at the same time of these attacks the
00:29:05
statements are that the attacks when they started the victims were asleep some of the victims it's reported had
00:29:12
defensive wounds so they likely based off of those statements the best I can gather is that they may have woke up mid
00:29:21
attack but how does this perpetrator or perpetrators seemingly get in there this
00:29:26
kind of level of stealth and leave there with the same level and you have two surviving members of the home you have
00:29:38
it's reported that there was a dog that one of our victims Kaylee that she owned
00:29:43
a dog and the dog was present when the officers arrived it's reported that the dog was not so they find two of the
00:29:51
victims on the second floor of the home and two of the victims dead on the third
00:29:55
floor of the home and the vague statement regarding the dog is that the dog was not present where the victims
00:30:03
were found but was in the home when the officers arrived on the scene and we have the statement from police where
00:30:12
they are saying the other members of this home they do not have reason to believe that they are involved in any
00:30:20
way in The Killing so that's the kind of mindboggling scenario that we have here
00:30:27
regarding the dog and the other two individuals and then one statement that has come out more recently and this is
00:30:34
coming from the the property management team that manages this rental house is that there's actually a sixth person
00:30:42
listed on the lease that person I'm unclear as if this person was still living there at the
00:30:51
time we know that this is is student housing we could have a situation where the sixth person decided to not attend
00:31:00
school for the full year or or left campus early uh for the upcoming holiday and was not around at the time of the
00:31:11
the homicides it's a little unclear about this sixth person and their involvement in the actual home leading
00:31:18
up to uh the this tragic event yeah this is absolutely tragic and and so confusing so many questions
00:31:28
but I think the way they probably got in without being seen and and heard is this
00:31:32
happened at the we hours of the morning so in a sleepy college town there's just
00:31:37
not a lot of people out well and our four victims here did not return to the home until after 1:00 a.m. that night we
00:31:45
know that to be fact and my neighborhood I see somebody walking at 1 a.m. or afterward and that's very bizarre that's
00:31:54
something that that sends up a red flag here and in my neighborhood you don't anticipate seeing anybody out that late
00:32:01
or or roaming the streets if it were so let's get into now that we've covered some of the additional home information
00:32:09
that's been put forward by the media I think we need to get into this timeline because the timeline's got some
00:32:17
interesting details about it and this timeline has been provided to us from foxnews.com so if anybody wants to look
00:32:26
this up uh you can go there and find it for yourself I'm not going to go through
00:32:32
the entire te of the article but I'll just jump right into the timeline Captain comment as you see fit here the
00:32:40
timeline that they provide starts with Saturday November 12th and this technically will be the day before the
00:32:47
homicides but they the victims were killed in the small hours of the 13th and also discovered that same day so
00:32:56
keep that in mind so Saturday November 12 we have Kaylee Gonzalez post a a final Instagram post at 8:57 p.m. and
00:33:07
it's a picture that is a Almost Famous at this point because I've seen it this picture generated on and being thrown
00:33:16
around on different websites and different news outlets I mean it couldn't paint a picture of happier
00:33:23
people all four of our victims are in this picture they are look to be incredibly happy in this moment from my
00:33:31
understanding I believe that this picture may have been taken a day or so before she posted but the picture itself
00:33:39
was not posted until 857 on kayle's Instagram it's our four victims along with what appears to be two other
00:33:48
persons who have been cropped out of the picture so we do not know who those individuals are there's versions of this
00:33:55
picture without them C out so that night two of the persons here Kaye and Madison they go to a bar and they hang
00:34:06
out there this bar is the corner club which is in town and from everything we can find it states that they were there
00:34:15
from about 10:00 till a little after 1 a.m. this was interesting to me Captain because when I started hearing that the
00:34:25
four victims it's that they did not arrive home until very close to 2 a.m. that morning it was interesting to
00:34:34
me because given the size of the town and I know that it's a college but I trolled around on the internet and and
00:34:43
on map apps very quickly realized it was going to be difficult there was not a whole lot of businesses or bars that
00:34:50
would stay open that late even on a Saturday so it really limited the location that they could be going to
00:34:58
because originally this was simply reported as they were at a sports bar or a local bar and had left there and
00:35:06
arrived home around the 2:00 hour so now we get some further detail it was in fact the corner club which is in town
00:35:15
and while this is going on while we have Madison and Kaylee there at the bar we have Ethan and his
00:35:24
girlfriend Zanna who went to a party together at the sigma Kai house which is located on campus afterward we have
00:35:35
Madison and Kaylee who are captured on video on Twitch footage at 1:41 a.m. and this is they are standing outside of a
00:35:47
food truck in this video clip they are waiting in line at the grub wandering kitchens food truck which I guess the
00:35:56
locals called the grub truck they are chatting with friends they're placing an order this is when they are last
00:36:03
captured on uh video so we know that they didn't go straight from the bar to their home they stopped off at this at
00:36:13
this food truck first police initially said that that all of the parties had returned home by 1145 a.m. but later
00:36:23
revised their statement to say that Madison and Kaylee actually arrived home at 1:56 a.m. this is based off of
00:36:31
additional evidence that they have recovered and they received a ride back from a private party this initially was
00:36:40
reported as an Uber ride but now it's being referred to as having received a ride back from a private party whom
00:36:47
police have not named publicly but they say that they have ruled out as a suspect now when we're going through
00:36:55
this article and if we get to the other article as well captain that I want to dive into I want to be clear about
00:37:02
something because the the language is changing throughout some of these articles okay in some articles what they
00:37:11
are saying is that certain individuals have been cleared or certain individuals have been ruled out as a suspect I will
00:37:20
state as the article States it but what I think that we need to make very clear here and what is very important to me is
00:37:30
that the language that the investigators are choosing to use in regard to speaking with the public and the media
00:37:38
is different than the language in some of these articles a couple things that are in favor of law enforcement here is
00:37:44
we have two parties and they're at two locations two girls are at a bar the boyfriend and girlfriend are at a a frat
00:37:53
party so because it's a small campus law enforcement is going to have a good idea
00:38:00
of the patrons of that bar and the patrons of that party those people obviously need to be looked at because
00:38:07
they're the some of the last people that come in contact with these individuals but then we have the two girls that stop
00:38:13
at the food truck and then I know that they've investigated several people that have been a part of that video clip that
00:38:21
you've talked about but because this is not a huge campus and we don't have a ton of students and we don't have that
00:38:29
many businesses open this I think is in favor of law enforcement figuring out and being able to interview the patrons
00:38:38
of both the party and the bar and what I wanted to make sure that we were clear on here again referring to that language
00:38:46
that is being used because in these situations words have very powerful and true meaning and so I always and mindful
00:38:58
of the words the investigators are choosing to use when they speak with the public and choosing to use when they
00:39:04
speak with the media and the words that the investigators are using again different from these articles I'm yet to
00:39:12
see and here with my own ears a quote of investigators saying that soand so has been ruled out as a suspect or so and so
00:39:23
has been cleared in this case in fact what they have actually been saying time and time again are the two
00:39:31
are these two statements we don't believe that this person was involved to me that's very different
00:39:39
than saying somebody's been cleared or ruled out as a suspect the other thing that they are saying is that there is
00:39:46
nothing connecting this incident or this person to this case again that's different than saying somebody has been
00:39:56
ruled red out to me ruled out and cleared means we've determined this person in no possible way any shape or
00:40:02
form could have been involved in this saying we don't believe or have no reason to believe that they were
00:40:08
involved means we could still find something later that changes what we believe happened here
00:40:15
yeah I definitely agree with you hot pants the article goes on to state that the two surviving roommates were females
00:40:23
who survived the attack they have also been cleared again this is the language of the article have been cleared as
00:40:28
suspects that they returned home that night they were out as well they returned home before the four friends
00:40:37
who were later killed so these two female roommates per this report returned home around 1 a.m. so based off
00:40:47
of all of this information what we what it looks like we have a home where six people are going to go to sleep that
00:40:54
night all six of these indiv indviduals are out on the town and it appears that that two of our victims are at this bar
00:41:02
then they hit the food truck they get a private party to drive them home that person has not been publicly named we
00:41:09
have our other two victims that were at a fraternity party on campus they return
00:41:14
home and we have the two unnamed or previously unnamed roommates who return home as well that night so they're all
00:41:24
out but the Survivor roommates return around 1:00 a.m. then we have the two from the
00:41:31
fraternity or sorority party that return around 1:45 a.m. and then the last two people of the home return at 1:56 a.m.
00:41:40
so that's interesting that they are able to narrow it down to very precise times
00:41:46
here and that is certainly very helpful for the investigation but one of the things that are confusing is you think
00:41:53
about the timeline and you go okay well what if one of these individuals got into a argument with somebody and then
00:42:00
the person followed them home well that would make some sense as far as some kind of motive it makes sense on some
00:42:09
level but what doesn't make any sense is that these two groups of individuals weren't together so it wasn't like all
00:42:14
four of them went somewhere and got in an argument and then that followed them back home so that's where it gets even
00:42:23
more confused exactly that's that really makes this complicated and just the nature of the crime scene and the
00:42:29
persons there at the home makes this very complicated as well police have been upfront and saying recently that it
00:42:39
is believed that the murders took place between the hours of 3 and 4 a.m. and we
00:42:46
know that the 911 call that came in that was received that call came in at 11:58
00:42:53
a.m. I'd love to hear that 911 call so there's our timeline right there police have stated as the captain stated
00:43:02
earlier that the four victims were stabbed to death with a edged weapon such as a knife that was the language
00:43:08
they were using early on lately what has been stated is that it was a a fixed blade weapon what's interesting
00:43:19
here too is that through the course of their investigation we're learning from persons that they've interviewed and
00:43:26
businesses that they've gone to that they have a very good idea of what kind of knife it was this was not it it was
00:43:34
not a kitchen knife this was not a pocket knife this is what one business owner referred to as a Rambo style knife
00:43:43
that they were specifically asking about a knife of that style I typically call that a survivor knife that's the way
00:43:52
they were always advertised when we were kids there captain but if anybody's seen
00:43:57
the movie Rambo they know exactly what kind of knife that they are are looking for this would be a large blade it would
00:44:05
have a very sharp blade on one side with a with a large handle and I believe that's called the hilt right I'm not
00:44:15
sure if that's exactly what that's called but but that there would be evidence of that on our victims and
00:44:22
that's why they're probably honing in on a very specific type of knife another thing I just want to point out that
00:44:28
makes this difficult for law enforcement is I'm guessing the DNA transfer and the
00:44:34
blood transfer if you attack one victim and you get some blood on you and you attack the next victim then you're going
00:44:40
to be transferring their blood to the next victim and then both those victims blood to the next victim and so on and
00:44:47
so on and to add additional information about the potential murder weapon here we have the Idaho stat man that reported
00:44:57
that police were focusing on a Kar that's k-b R brand knife in their investigation
00:45:07
and had questioned a local hardware store manager about whether the shop had recently sold such a weapon and then the
00:45:15
article goes on to state that in the coming days that police were ruling out or clearing individuals that we have
00:45:23
already mentioned the roommates the person whomever drove them home it sounds like they've looked at several
00:45:31
different people again the language that I've seen them use outside of this article and other ones that we will cite
00:45:37
here today is that they do not believe a person certain person was involved or there's no evidence connecting them to
00:45:45
the homicides which again I personally believe is different yeah I think it's pretty strong to say that you ruled
00:45:50
somebody completely out I think by doing that you run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth I keep both feet in
00:45:57
my mouth at all times right well let's get into some of this additional information about the autopsies like we
00:46:05
said here Captain they've released very little information on the autopsies but the autopsies the from from what little
00:46:11
information they have released it sounds to me like this was a rather quick straightforward attack the only thing
00:46:19
that's bizar there is that it appears that the victims remained asleep while the other victims were being attacked
00:46:27
now we do have statements that are coming from the county corner to the media that I find to be interesting and
00:46:34
and two they back up a lot of the suspicions early on and they back up some of the other statements that we
00:46:42
have found in the media so I summarized it as such four University of Idaho students were found
00:46:49
dead in a rental house Sunday they were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep a County coroner told
00:46:57
a cable news channel the County coroner told news nation that each victim suffered multiple stab wounds from a
00:47:05
quote pretty large knife and goes on to say State quote it has to be somebody pretty angry in order to stab four
00:47:15
people to death end quote the victims the coroner said were stabbed in the chest and upper body area the coroner
00:47:23
said that the victims were likely asleep some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times according to
00:47:30
police there was no evidence of sexual assault police said and law enforcement say that the murders took place between
00:47:37
3:00 a.m. and 4: a.m. the other thing here in regard to the crime scene itself is there's no signs of forced entry into
00:47:46
the home there's also no sign of anything having been taken from the house yeah and I can't speak to this
00:47:54
particular house but I know the houses on Ohio State campus if a door is a little broken or a lock is a little
00:48:02
broken you're lucky to have your landlord come and fix it is it possible that the doors were locked but somebody
00:48:08
was able to either pick those locks or you know use the old credit card trick to get in and and they and the people in
00:48:16
the house just just didn't deadbolt the door some other persons of possible interest that people I'm sure would like
00:48:23
for us to speak about is there were multiple phone calls made from two of our victims two of our
00:48:31
female victims to a male individual it's now being reported that those multiple phone calls were to an ex-boyfriend of
00:48:42
one of the victims it appears Captain two things are going on with that one I'm very curious who this individual was
00:48:52
when they weren't naming him right and now they're listed him as an ex-boyfriend of one of the victims but
00:48:59
it then became clear that law enforcement was using this information for two things one again the statement
00:49:06
of we don't have reason to believe that this person was involved but it also sounds like these uh text or phone calls
00:49:15
these communications were what helped them to narrow down the time of death as well
00:49:23
and so it seems like even they get home around 2: a.m. of course you know you don't go home and and most of us don't
00:49:30
go home from a night out and then go straight to bed but it was very late at night when they return home but it
00:49:36
appears that they were still active for some period of time after returning to the home that night yeah when I go to a
00:49:42
bar and then I hit up the old grub truck I'm passing out right when I get home let's just be clear about this I want to
00:49:52
I want to make sure I'm clear on what you're stating this ex-boyfriend was not just in
00:49:58
communication with one of the roommates or one of the victims but in communication with two of the victims
00:50:06
that is what the statements are from the articles that I have reviewed yes to me
00:50:12
that is very suspicious and to me I'd want to know what those conversations were about agreed and anybody that's
00:50:21
communicating or interacting with any of our victims leading up to the murders is going to be somebody that
00:50:28
will be interesting to police and to investigators now in this regard I personally did not find it to
00:50:36
be bizarre I did I get it but the Social Circles that I run in almost everyone significant others are very close
00:50:44
friends with with everyone in the group and the way that I understand this and again I'm just you know 40-year-old dude
00:50:54
living halfway Across America away from from these victims trying to understand some victims in their their lives going
00:51:01
on that are half my age so I clearly don't know anything well clearly not and you're living in a van down by the river
00:51:11
but just pointing out that from my understanding the information that's out there is that the two that were in
00:51:17
communication with this ex-boy friend were Madison and Kaylee and from my understand standing
00:51:26
and listening to the victims families talk about their daughters and their daughters relationships with each other
00:51:35
that these two were best friends from middle school and Beyond like the the closeness of their
00:51:44
relationship is so hard to describe to everybody out there because it sounds to me like many of us may have not
00:51:51
experienced a friendship that is in fact this close for this long of a period of
00:51:57
time so from middle school on high school and then they they go to the same college and become roommates together
00:52:05
and they're two of the older persons living in this house in this rental house on campus I don't find it strange
00:52:14
that having that close of a bond and relationship that one person that was not a part of that relationship of the
00:52:24
boyfriend girlfriend relationship ship was in communication with this male on that night as said those same two
00:52:32
victims were together that entire night together right which could be something as simple as oh I can't get a hold of
00:52:39
Kaylee so I text her best friend who was always with her right or I called her best friend who was always with her or
00:52:48
so and so called him I get it and I think you're spot on Captain you're absolutely right police would be foolish
00:52:56
to not look at him and it obviously they have done so to say that they've ruled him out or cleared him would be
00:53:03
irresponsible to say that they can't really connect them to the homicides is is likely a true statement of their
00:53:09
investigation and the evidence that they have so far the other thing that's interesting and it's also in regard to
00:53:15
Kaylee as well is that I guess in October she had made reference to a potential stalker there's very little
00:53:22
details about that and and what she had said to other people however the police come out and
00:53:29
say that we believe that we have tracked down two individuals that may have been
00:53:34
called a stalker so these two individuals are are friends they are person that the police obviously know
00:53:43
their names they've been interviewed and one guy is saying yeah I saw I was at me
00:53:48
and my buddy went to a public place those who stocked together flocked together and we went there with the
00:53:54
intention or the hopes of meeting women the ladies and yes I I followed her around I don't know if this
00:54:05
was a bar they don't go into what kind of business or what kind of Gathering Place this was right but he says yes I
00:54:10
followed her around I may have even gone out to the parking lot when she went out
00:54:13
to the parking lot he says he did not interact with her at all this could be very simple as the situation that we see
00:54:23
every night on a campus boy goes out hoping to meet girl boy is too chicken [ __ ] to approach her and talk with her
00:54:31
but does the weird thing where he kind of follows her around briefly or or tries to exchange glances across the
00:54:37
room in hopes that she will come over and speak with him but never does so the police say that they've moved on from
00:54:45
this individual and and his friend and have no reason to believe that they had any type of involvement at all but
00:54:51
weirdly he hasn't moved on that was very weird to me mhm not that they said that
00:54:56
they've moved on from this individual but it was weird to me that it that they came out and they it
00:55:01
sounded like they were so confident that they had Tracked Down The Stalker like oh it's just this goofy guy
00:55:08
that followed her around at a bar what have you well it could be a like you said a flipped comment that she made
00:55:14
that it was just kind of joking oh this guy followed me around at the bar he's a
00:55:18
stalker or it could be that she was talking about a different individual and they just haven't been able to identify
00:55:24
that person again a a statement like that could mean the world or mean nothing because we
00:55:31
don't know the context in which she said it exactly and then what we do have where I thought that the police
00:55:37
statements were very weird in that regard they did come out a couple days later and said hey yeah we have this
00:55:45
information and we spoke about this information with you guys previously but we are now actively seeking additional
00:55:53
information if there was was a an actual stalker or if there was somebody of interest uh to this case and in regard
00:56:02
to what Kaylee had said to her friends again we're getting very little details on what she had said and it could have
00:56:08
absolutely nothing to do with this crime now where my head goes on this Captain was something you had said earlier where
00:56:17
immediately knowing that our victims were out and about that night before they return home the killer comes into
00:56:23
the home and kills the victims and then fleas right I wanted to know and my first reaction was you know what damn it
00:56:30
law enforcement better be all over every person that was at that bar that night all over him like white on rice baby or
00:56:41
everybody that was at that food truck or the person that gave them a ride home but then you compound that stock them if
00:56:47
you with the idea that that two of our victims were at different locations and our other two victims was it we're at a
00:56:55
completely different party a completely different Gathering that makes this so bizarre to me if you had somebody that
00:57:04
got ticked off went off the rails and wanted to do something to somebody that they had interaction with or or
00:57:13
otherwise that night leading up to it why do we have two additional victims yeah and then why do we have two
00:57:20
individuals that weren't victims person just get scared and stop the attack I'd also want to go back further in time and
00:57:30
say was there a house party or somebody at that house party felt like they were disrespected or humiliated or whatever
00:57:40
that maybe came back because this type of weapon to me is not a knife that you're just going to be carrying around
00:57:47
with you to parties so to me this this seems like not just some random thing that this was
00:57:56
actually planned to some level well and what I would encourage here is anybody and I know I'm stating the obvious but
00:58:04
anybody on that campus or in the surrounding communities that knows somebody that has or weeks ago had that
00:58:13
type of knife that type of weapon in their possession please be on the phone with law enforcement and let them know
00:58:21
that you know somebody that had that type of knife this is not it's not an uncommon knife but it's not also a
00:58:27
terribly common knife it's not one that you would find in most people's homes in
00:58:31
fact the only reason why I'm well aware of this knife is when I was in Cub Scouts and boy scouts there was a good
00:58:38
number of of boys that that had this type of knife and would would bring it on like a camping trip or
00:58:46
or something of that nature yeah this is the type of knife to me that you buy and
00:58:50
then you show your roommates hey check out my new knife and they're typically not expensive they're typically not
00:58:57
incredibly wellmade I can't speak to this uh Kar brand I don't I don't know that brand specifically but I will say
00:59:05
this this is not a knife that I would anticipate seeing someone of R AG to have in their possession well speak for
00:59:13
yourself I pretend to be Rambo every morning there's so many unanswered questions and obviously this case is
00:59:20
going to develop more but I actually think as much as we want information a lot of the
00:59:28
stuff that you've been reporting on is the police backtracking on statements and I almost feel like yes they felt
00:59:37
like they had to get ahead of this in the media but I've I actually think that they're making too many statements
00:59:44
because when you have to start going back and correcting little details and the de the devil like you said lives in
00:59:51
the details of these little statements they're making whether they're fully clearing somebody or they've just moved
00:59:58
on from that lead I think they're spending too much time trying to give information to the public I think it
01:00:06
would be better I think law enforcement would be better served to sit back let the leads come in work those leads and
01:00:14
when you have definitive information then you present that definitive information to the public and having
01:00:21
people like the Behavioral Science unit there on scen look I don't think that as get as
01:00:28
many people and as many resources involved as you can I think that if they do come up with some kind of profile of
01:00:36
the killer or Killers that's that's where I think that the FBI could be of the most service is determining how many
01:00:43
people are responsible for these homicides but the the actual profile if it were in fact one
01:00:51
perpetrator because you have a campus because you have a a community of persons that are all roughly about
01:01:02
the same age and they're all like-minded individuals that are attending that school I think the I don't know how much
01:01:10
a profile is going to help you in this situation and you know Captain I'm a big proponent of of these of profiles and
01:01:19
again where I think that the FBI could be of most service is determining how many persons are in evolved it as
01:01:26
difficult as it may be to believe from what I'm seeing here it looks like probably one person involved I would
01:01:33
want to know a lot more about this dog and a lot more about this house I've seen information come out that says that
01:01:40
the layout of this home was tricky it's three stories high which is difficult anyway for somebody that's never been
01:01:49
into the home is this somebody that has previously been in the home as you pointed out is is somebody that could
01:01:55
have been at a house party that took place there at one point uh if these individuals were targeted did they
01:02:01
target the right people there's a million questions here I want to know more about this dog too is this dog
01:02:07
yapper is the dog friendly or not friendly is this dog going to bark and go crazy at a person that they've never
01:02:14
seen before yeah and we again we don't know the location of the dog at the time is it a dog that they put in a cage um
01:02:22
at nighttime and the dog sleeps in their cage I think you're right and wrong I think FBI and law enforcement could
01:02:30
determine if they believe it was one individual or multiple I think you can do that because look we have a idea of
01:02:38
what the murder weapon was then we could figure out the idea of if the killer was
01:02:44
right-handed or left-handed but I actually think because it is a small college and now you have all these
01:02:50
people on high alert and they're going to be looking for every individual that's acting different or or has left
01:02:59
school or maybe left school before these attacks happen I think a profile would do a lot of good because with a small
01:03:07
College people are going to be on high alert and I think that's going to lead to some individuals being looked at that
01:03:14
maybe law enforcement doesn't have on their radar very possible very possible the the other things to consider in this
01:03:21
case as well you know I want to know more about this potential sixth person that is on the lease where were they why
01:03:28
are they not mentioned hardly at all in any of the newspaper articles and the news
01:03:35
articles was that person not even on campus at the time for all we know they' returned home to visit family for the
01:03:41
holidays or maybe finish school early or signed on to the lease and didn't attend
01:03:47
school this year for any number of reasons yeah or they lived in the house for a while and didn't like it and maybe
01:03:55
there was a conflict there when I hear knife attack sleep or no sleep defense wounds or no defense wounds my main goal
01:04:05
as an investigator would be a couple things blood evidence is going to be so key here we've talked about this many
01:04:14
times here in the garage in these types of knife attacks it's almost impossible for the perpetrator to not cut
01:04:21
themselves injure themselves leave their own blood at the scene I'm not so hopeful on that because we're sitting
01:04:29
here almost a month later and those types of tests don't take forever to run now could we have a mixing of blood and
01:04:38
fluids yes that's a possibility and that certainly complicates things so blood evidence would be a high priority for me
01:04:46
uh fingerprint evidence can get difficult here as you pointed out campus house could have been House Parties we
01:04:54
have an additional party that we don't know their comings and goings as well well and we also have a lot of people
01:05:01
that live there and so all their guests that they would have come visit them and
01:05:06
all their family members that might come visit them I think we're going to find and
01:05:12
this is just my gut feeling that there is some sort of premeditation whether there was a conflict at the bar or
01:05:19
conflict at the party or conflict a week or two prior to this that this individual either got the knife for that
01:05:29
reason or had the knife and then had to go home and prepare themselves and that to me would lead towards they prepared
01:05:38
themselves by getting they probably prepared themselves by getting the weapon maybe putting on gloves maybe
01:05:45
changing clothes that they were able to throw away and that's the other difficult thing for law enforcement you
01:05:50
have a lot of houses you have dumpsters in that area and somebody could have discarded their
01:05:57
clothes pretty easily and quickly could it have been somebody that was watching the house that this had been something
01:06:03
that was bubbling up for some time it that stands to reason a little bit considering that the two surviving
01:06:12
members of the household returned first and they were unharmed and the attack doesn't go down until after these
01:06:21
other four people return to the home the other thing that that I want to Circle in on here that is is
01:06:30
concerning and these knife attacks there's there's a considerable amount of blood and I know that I talked about
01:06:37
blood evidence but this is on that same regard Footprints you would expect to find
01:06:45
bloody Footprints at this scene and that would be very good evidence that could lead you to your killer that would be
01:06:54
great evidence that's going to let you know if we should be looking for one two or three people the problem here and my
01:07:02
major concerns and the red flags that I have in this case where I I sit back and
01:07:07
I go you know what and I know forgive me Captain because two of these individuals
01:07:13
are are likely just victims themselves having been roommates and losing very close friends and and experiencing
01:07:21
something that that none of us should ever have to experience so just forgive me while I go down this road of
01:07:27
speculation here but my concerns are are twofold one when it's when it's stated that you called someone else before a
01:07:38
call to 911 was made and the 911 call is then about an unconscious person the the
01:07:45
amount of blood that would have been at that scene and we're not talking about they discover a victim at 6:00 in the
01:07:51
morning when it's still dark out 5 in the morning when it's still dark out this is 11:56 a.m. or 11:58 a.m. when
01:07:59
the 911 call comes in to to me I and I you don't have to be a garage expert to sit here and go you know there's a
01:08:08
there's clear and obvious differences between a stab victim and somebody that's just blacked out or passed out
01:08:16
and unresponsive there should have been blood indicators there to to tell these roommates that something else happened
01:08:24
here and instead a call goes out to a third party or to additional people that then come into our into the home and
01:08:32
then into our crime scene right and trample our crime scene where bloody shoeprints could have been the key
01:08:41
indicator of who is responsible for this bloody shoeprints could have been the breadcrumb trail that led you directly
01:08:48
to your perpetrator and now we got people there trampling all over our crime scene and and the call that comes
01:08:56
in is weird and I and here's the thing very likely the 911 call if we had the audio for it would probably clear a lot
01:09:03
of that up yeah and what we've learned through covering so many cases is that cases are similar so I think you can
01:09:11
look into spree killings like the one that Bundy did the one that Richard spec did or any other spree type
01:09:20
killing and I think you'll find similarities in those crimes and this crime in Idaho but I also am drawn to
01:09:29
crimes like Lulu Lemon where they find somebody at the scene that now we quote unquote call victim and then ultimately
01:09:39
becomes a suspect ultimately becomes the person charged with the murders of that
01:09:44
crime and if I killed a roommate well let me invite a bunch of other people over to the crime scene to
01:09:51
start contaminating it so it's it's not I think unfair to say if I was law enforcement like I stated at the
01:09:58
beginning of the show if I'm law enforcement those are the two individuals I'm looking at and anybody
01:10:03
that came over to that house anybody that they called I'm starting there and I'm trying to vet them as much as I can
01:10:12
before I move to the outside Circle so many questions and I hope that the families and the students and the staff
01:10:19
and everybody involved gets the answers that they so rightfully deserve sooner rather than later and hopefully we can
01:10:26
start to close out this case and again our thoughts and prayers with everybody that have have been impacted by this
01:10:34
horrible tragedy I know that we did our shows a little different than we do traditionally here in the garage this
01:10:43
week this for those that have never experienced or subscribe to our other show off the Record these shows are much
01:10:51
closer to what we do on off the Record and you can sign up for that by going to our website at True Crime
01:10:58
garage.com next week we will be back in the garage and doing our traditional shows as one would expect we hope that
01:11:07
you will join us again next week until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter
01:11:24
[Applause] [Music] when it comes to teaching kids and teens about money practice makes perfect
01:11:54
that's where green light comes in with a debit card and money app of their own kids learn to earn save spend wisely and
01:12:01
invest parents send instant money transfers create custom chores and automate allowance while kids track
01:12:07
their spending set savings goals and practice money skills they can use today and for Life get one month free when you
01:12:14
sign up at greenlight.com slmp podcast