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at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the farmers who work hard to put food on our
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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details
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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:49
with me as always is a man that well I've got to warn you if you dress up like a clown around this guy you'll
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quickly find out that Homie don't play that he is the captain that is is right boys and girls it's good to be seen and
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it's good to see you thanks for telling a friend thanks for listening thanks for
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being weird today we are drinking milk from the wonderful people at Mother's Brewing
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Company in Springfield Missouri garage grade 4 and 1 half bottle caps out of five see Captain that's what I love
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about the garage Army you claimed about a month ago to know a lot of moms and boom mother's Brewing Company and a big
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fan of ours Julie slide into action and sent us some mil Stout mil is a barrel aged Stout 11% ABV tribe mother's
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Brewing Company mil Stout today and a big shout out to our true crime garage Army first up we have Chris in Ottawa
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give a big shout out to Jeff from Brooklyn and in Parts Unknown we have Kayla and Anthony and going down South
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we have Alysa down in car North Carolina and in eastley South Carolina We Have Allison Allison says she has never had a
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beer in her life but she's happy to buy us some so thank you to Allison hey we're not haters here you got to you
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don't got to drink when you're in the garage do what you feel and last but not least we have Rachel in camr Australia
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Rachel says keep up the great work mates well cheers mates we want to thank everybody that pitched in this week and
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garage and as we like to say that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of John Wayne
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[Music] gazy in as Plains Illinois near Chicago a man who served time in prison for sex crimes
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was let out today they found the bodies of at least three young boys buried under his house he is charged with
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murder here's Jim cumins police have been watching John gasy suburban Chicago home for the past
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10 days they became suspicious when 15-year-old Robert past appeared after he allegedly was last seen with gasy
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this morning police searched gas's home and found the decomposed remains of three bodies in a dirt crawl space under
00:05:38
the house they suspect there are several more bodies buried here it's suspected because of the looks of the area down in
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the crawl space uh there are some other mountains and appears to be more there gasy is a 36-year-old building
00:05:58
contractor who reportedly dressed like a clown to entertain at children's parties
00:06:02
prosecutors say he once went to prison for a sex offense in Iowa this afternoon gasy was charged with murdering Robert
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past and after hearing the remains of more bodies were found at gase's house judge Marvin Peters ordered him held
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without bond at the hearing police said gasy has confessed to the peace murder he will be
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examined by a psychiatrist meanwhile investigators have started to dismantle gas's house
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and garage as they continue to ser search for other bodies in this quiet Suburban
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[Music] neighborhood Chicago Illinois March 17th 1942 St Patrick's Day Mr John gasy and
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Mrs Marian gasy welcomed their first son into the world at Edgewater hospital they named him after his father well
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technically they they named him after the mother's favorite actor John Wayne so John Wayne gasy Jr his father was
00:07:07
John Stanley gasy so technically not even a junior he was the second of three children his older sister Joanne was
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born two years before him and two years after him was his little sister Karen all three attended Catholic schools and
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they grew up on the Northern side of Chicago John Wayne gasy was not a particularly popular kid in school
00:07:30
although he got along well with his teachers and made friends at school he was part of the Boy Scouts and he
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enjoyed the outdoor activities that came with being a part of the Boy Scouts now
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Gay's father was pretty hard on the children and gasy felt that he was abused mostly emotionally and verbally
00:07:50
his father often told gasy that he was a disappointment that he was dumb that he
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was stupid that he was a [ __ ] yeah and he he would even call him some let's say
00:08:00
slurs that we will not be using on today's episode yeah and it seems to me like John Stanley was very excited to
00:08:08
have a boy to have John gasy in the you know John Wayne gasy into the family but
00:08:15
instead of you know fishing and playing sports and stuff like that he was into gardening he was into hanging out with
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his mother hanging out with his sister and it sounds like John's Father John Senior was a pretty difficult man to be
00:08:29
around now I don't know if that if John gasy Senor was hard on the two daughters
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as much as he was on John gasy Jr yeah he he whooped them all with a razor belt M but I'm I'm guessing that that John
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Wayne gasy Jr probably got the worst of it uh being treated a little bit differently by his crappy father simply
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because he was the only boy mhm now in 1951 when John Wayne gasy was 9 years old he was diagnosed with some some kind
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of heart condition um from my understanding the diagnosis was a non-specific heart ailment yeah and they
00:09:06
detected this because any you know he was playing outside with some people with some friends at school and he
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passed out well and this could be part of a a larger problem here because a couple years later when when John gasy
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was 11 years old now The Story Goes Like This he was playing near a swing set and
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he was hit in the head by one of the swings now you think that this would be a rather small accident however this is
00:09:33
believed to be the cause of of a blood clot that formed in John gas's brain um the blood clot was not discovered until
00:09:41
gasy was 16 from the age of 11 to the age of 16 gasy suffered severe headaches and he often blacked out this was caused
00:09:52
believed to be caused by the blood clot because the blackout stopped after the clot was discovered and gasy was given
00:09:59
medication to to dissolve the blockage in the brain uh this would be a pretty traumatic experience when you think
00:10:07
about it though you have this young boy who's trying to fit in with the other boys and he goes through through this
00:10:12
period of what five years where he's he's got these weird blackouts that would happen from time to time John
00:10:19
Wayne gasey wasn't doing so well in school which was another big disappointment to his father so he
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actually started taking on a trade and this was pretty common back in the day so he started working with a printing
00:10:31
press but because he kept on blacking out they said look you cannot work on a printing press machine if you're going
00:10:37
to keep blacking out yeah it's too dangerous something horrible could happen to him well he was hospitalized
00:10:43
several times over the years uh this for the BL the blood clot and for his heart
00:10:49
condition uh he was having quite a bit of problems with this uh this being in his late school years uh gasy was a good
00:10:57
student when he was much younger but maybe because of these health problems uh it it turned out that he ended up not
00:11:04
being able to be a good student uh despite the medical problems gasy was considered a hard worker he took on a
00:11:11
part-time job several part-time jobs after school he had newspaper routes and he also worked at a uh grocery store at
00:11:19
one of those IGA stores as a Bag Boy in a stock clerk that was one of my favorite places to go as a kid we had
00:11:26
one here in town and that you would always hope to get a couple from Mom and Dad so you could buy some candy after
00:11:31
school uh although gasy and his father had a lot of problems as the captain said John gase's relationship with his
00:11:38
mother and his sisters were very strong he was extremely close with his mother and his sisters uh there is rumor and
00:11:46
speculation that John Wayne gasy senior that the the father was not only abusive
00:11:51
but also an alcoholic uh there is some suspicion that he physically abused his wife and verbally abused all three of
00:11:58
the children children as well um well there's not a lot of suspicion that he was a alcoholic he was an alcoholic he
00:12:05
he ends up dying from sorosis of the liver mhm well needless to say the the family had problems uh several times
00:12:14
John's mother threatened to leave Jon's father and even though John Senior was an unpleasant individual um John Jr did
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seek out attention from his father and he desperately wanted to gain his father's approval mhm I mean I think you
00:12:30
see that with most boys you know they want the they always kind of seek their approval of the father more so than the
00:12:37
mother I would assume well and outside of these medical problems there were some red flags regarding John Wayne
00:12:44
Casey's childhood and now these are stories that were relayed uh from his mother and his sisters but when John was
00:12:52
about five or six years old he got in trouble within the family and uh he had been stealing killing his mother's
00:13:00
undergarments and these these undergarments kept disappearing and disappearing eventually they found out
00:13:06
that it was John that was taking them um and he would eventually bury them underneath the house after he stole them
00:13:13
from his mother uh having been caught for this and scolded for it uh he he didn't do this you know whatever bad
00:13:21
habit this was he fell out of it for quite a few years but when he was about 15 or 16 he started doing something
00:13:29
similar but it wasn't his mother's undergarments he would steal the undergarments of girls that lived in the
00:13:35
neighborhood off of the clothing lines you know they hang them out the dry and he would steal them and it was
00:13:42
discovered that he would bury these underneath the house as well the old Penny snatcher now John attended several
00:13:50
schools uh several high schools and he never ended up graduating um his father did help him out after after school um
00:14:00
by helping him get his first car but it was one of those situations where he helped him out by kicking his ass well
00:14:07
it was one of those situations where you wonder if John Senior was actually trying to help the boy or not because it
00:14:14
it was a situation where it's like okay dad goes and gets the car for John and now John gasey Jr has to pay payments to
00:14:23
his father well what ends up happening in these situations and I'm sure a lot of us have been there but then Dad ends
00:14:29
up being in charge of the car right you know it's something that you always has have to ask him if you can use your car
00:14:35
to go here or there um you know and he can remind you well you're behind on your payments or it's actually my car no
00:14:42
you can't take it to go here or there right which you have the right to if you bought the car yeah and so this ends up
00:14:48
to ends up leading to a whole bunch of fights and arguments regarding the vehicle well JN decides to run away from
00:14:55
home which is a strange thing to say when a person is 18 or 19 years old that they ran away from home but that's how
00:15:03
he describes it and he ran away and he went to Las Vegas well when he gets to Las Vegas this was not a really wellth
00:15:10
thought out plan by John gasy Jr because he's in a strange town and he has no money what happens while he's there he
00:15:19
ends up going to the hospital okay and he's unable to pay the hospital bill uh they wanted him to pay it was something
00:15:26
small you know $36 which is quite a bit more money back then but he didn't have any money to pay this bill but this will
00:15:34
give you an idea of what kind of personality John Wayne gasy had was that over the course of discussing this bill
00:15:41
and during his hospital visit he ends up getting a job with the hospital you know
00:15:47
and that's the kind of personality he had he was he was the type that they say could talk to anybody and he ended up
00:15:54
being he he he could talk your panties right off or or just take him off the clothes line right um but he ends up
00:16:01
getting a job driving an ambulance now he's eventually fired from this job he doesn't have it for very long because
00:16:07
they discovered that he has no high school diploma which was of course you know a requirement for this type of job
00:16:15
now he's in a strange town he doesn't have any friends he doesn't have any family there remember he's very close
00:16:21
with his mother and his sisters and he's he's very depressed while he's in Las Vegas so the whole time in Vegas even
00:16:29
though he ran away from home he's starting to save back a little bit little bit of money so he can return to
00:16:36
his family and return to his home I think anytime somebody moves away you know especially in this situation he he
00:16:44
he wants to move away to get away from his father but he still wants to impress his father right he still wants to do
00:16:50
something that says see old man I did something yeah and you'll see this when he returns from Las Vegas when he comes
00:16:57
home now this is the early 1960s he enrolled in a business college and he eventually graduated from this business
00:17:05
college so how did you get into college with no high school diploma I think uh some of these schools if you're willing
00:17:11
to pay the bill right they'll figure out a way to get you through so while at business college he perfected his talent
00:17:17
as a Salesman um and he was a he's what people describe as a natural born salesman he could talk his way in or out
00:17:28
of almost anything and he put his talents to work when he was hired at his first real job let's call it uh after
00:17:35
business school when he goes to work for a shoe company now he excelled in his position as a management trainee and not
00:17:44
too long after he was transferred to manage a men's clothing outlet in Springfield Illinois and at this time
00:17:51
he's going to actually find a girl that's going to put up with him and uh marry her yes this is September of 64
00:17:59
gasy met uh what would be his his soon Tobe wife uh she was a co-worker her name is Marilyn Meers now her parents
00:18:07
owned a string of Kentucky Fried Chicken fast food restaurant franchises in waterl Iowa Fred Meyers is her father uh
00:18:18
gase's new father-in-law he offered him a position with one of the franchises M soon after that gasy and his new wife
00:18:26
well and a little quick point here is I think like we talked about this is a guy
00:18:31
that felt like he was a failure and wanted to get ahead and wanted to be you know some kind of status I mean where
00:18:39
maybe the status was actually more important than the actual money but also now I met this girl and her family
00:18:47
actually owns businesses yeah she has successful parents right this could be a good step for my you know my career so
00:18:55
the gasy the young gasey family well gasy and his wife anyway are going to move to Iowa so he can take one of these
00:19:02
positions working for his new father-in-law um now people in the restaurant Biz know this restaurant
00:19:09
managers work a lot of hours and gasy was often working 12 14 16-hour days but he was a workaholic yes and the plan was
00:19:18
that he would learn the business and then take over the franchise from his father-in-law someday yeah when gasy was
00:19:25
not working he was active in the waterl Iowa JC's the JC's is a is a Civic Organization for people between the ages
00:19:35
of 18 and 40 right it's a not for-profit organization that's that has like great
00:19:42
leadership training business development management skills and community service
00:19:47
is all involved with your work with the it's basically a good way to network M and and to get ahead and he was really
00:19:55
interested he he actually started a committee right mhm and what was that committee I want you to say it I'm not
00:20:02
going to say it what was the committee it was a it was a don't Litter committee and it was it was all about
00:20:11
not littering he hated the litter bugs I'm sorry I just I just when when I read that I I just cracked up but so
00:20:23
meanwhile as he's uh doing this non- littering committee mhm over at KFC he is demanding that people call him
00:20:32
the colonel yeah you can't make this stuff up people well he he like the Captain's saying he worked tirelessly
00:20:42
performing volunteer work uh through with the community Through the JC's it was there that he had made most of his
00:20:49
friends and he spent most of his free time working with the JC's shortly after arriving in Iowa gasy and his wife they
00:20:57
had their first baby a son and they also had a daughter while they were living there right and his family members would
00:21:04
say you know this is kind of the first time that John Stanley gasey is looking at John Wayne gasy and saying Hey That's
00:21:13
my boy my boy settled down my boy has a job my boy is supporting his family he's
00:21:18
married um you know I I think John Stanley gasey was kind of worried about his son's sexuality and so now the fact
00:21:28
that he's married and has kids it's like my boy's doing good and actually it was
00:21:33
it kind of the first time that John Stanley was proud of his son mhm well and I think regarding the the mother's
00:21:41
undergarments and maybe part of the reason why the father was so hard on him um it it was not outwardly stated by her
00:21:49
but the belief by the family was that he was wearing these these undergarments and that might have led his father to
00:21:55
believe certain things about his son but but like you said now he's he's out on his own he's working for his his
00:22:03
father-in-law and his successful father-in-law and he's he's working to build a family uh the gases John and his
00:22:11
wife they had every reason to be happy uh during their first few years there in Iowa they had a nice house in the
00:22:17
suburbs uh the kids were healthy uh Marilyn his wife enjoyed staying at home and taking care of the children and John
00:22:25
had a good job and he was busy with the J he was even working on a campaign for uh
00:22:32
presidency of the local JC chapter there yeah uh everything seemed almost too good to be true and in fact we end up
00:22:39
learning that it indeed it was um everything seemed to be looking good for John Wayne gasy Jr yet his lucky streak
00:22:48
would not last too much longer well and I don't know if it was just a luck streak as much as I think he had these
00:22:56
desires or thoughts inside of him him that he was now becoming not able to control yeah and there was some thoughts
00:23:04
that that John Wayne gasy might be homosexual um this is kind of stemming from from some of the young guys working
00:23:12
at the KFC restaurant right uh they say that he is making passes at them um during work hours and while working with
00:23:21
with gayy at the fast food chain um yet people close to him you know refuse to believe the gossip uh right well here's
00:23:30
a married man with with two kids and at the same time that you have this going on at the Kentucky Fried Chicken
00:23:37
restaurant you also have rumors spreading around town amongst the JC members regarding gasey sexual
00:23:43
preference MH um and you know there always seemed to be young boys uh young men were always in gas's presence right
00:23:52
but there's a couple odd things that are happening here okay so John gazy is in charge of recruiting people and he would
00:24:01
stop at nothing to recruit these people for the JC and like we said it's this uh
00:24:06
Community organization and it's supposed to be about networking and helping the community and John Wayne gasy decides
00:24:13
well I'll rent a hotel and I'll start showing these recruits illegal pornography tapes or stag films yeah
00:24:22
right so that then turns into not only are we going to watch these tapes but we're going to hire prostitutes and
00:24:30
have orgies mhm so that's going on the whole time people of this town of Power are having these these
00:24:42
orgy parties and he's also starting at this point to to swing with his wife as well so you you got a lot of weird stuff
00:24:50
going on so but then the rumors about you know the JC starts saying hey well we know he's is doing some of this stuff
00:24:59
but we're doing it too the odd stuff is that he's hanging around a lot of young boys mhm well and with a lot of these
00:25:09
organizations um the way that you can rise to the top very very quickly is by recruiting numbers and if you can
00:25:16
recruit more members than anybody else then you become very popular and a person of Power with inside that
00:25:22
organization and on top of that if you recruited that person and then you have also this information to hang over their
00:25:29
head mhm oh you know you might might not want to you know rub me the wrong way because you don't want me telling your
00:25:36
wife about this well and gasy was getting large numbers of recruits like un almost unheard of numbers of recruits
00:25:44
and it's believed that because he threw these wild crazy parties right that a lot of these people were signing up just
00:25:49
to be part of these parties not so much to be really truly involved with the organization itself now in the spring of
00:25:58
1968 um gasey ends up being indicted on charges of sodomy now in most jurisdictions sodomy is a pretty broad
00:26:06
vague charge the precise sexual acts meant by the term sodomy are rarely spelled out in law but are understood by
00:26:14
courts to include any sexual act deemed to be unnatural or immoral um now there's there's two sides to this
00:26:23
particular sodomy charge uh that that go down here um do you want to give Yeah so
00:26:28
basically the victim's accounts of the story is they're hanging out with John Wayne gayy hanging out at John's house
00:26:35
John shows him a stag film then gives him some alcohol this would lead to some sexual advances mhm um you know we we
00:26:44
know the victim's name but we're not going to say it out of respect to them so obviously there's this very
00:26:50
inappropriate exchange between adult male and basically a teenage boy MH that teenage boy just kind kind of lives with
00:26:58
it and doesn't tell anybody and gayy actually pays him I think 50 bucks and also tells him hey by the way I have
00:27:05
connections with the mob so if you want to you want to talk about this uh you're
00:27:11
going to be in for some trouble right so the boy starts acting strange and eventually breaks down to his parents
00:27:19
the problem with this is his father is is high up with the JC's but just high up as a public figure
00:27:28
well and some of those things align with with the version of the story that I'm going to tell now this is according to
00:27:34
John Wayne gasy by the way we'll throw that out there and that's that's primarily why we're not going to use
00:27:39
this young man's name but according to gasy the young man was a homosexual young man uh who didn't mind having sex
00:27:47
with men for money or sexual favors with men for money now gasy says that the two
00:27:53
of them were involved um that they would get together often um and for some reason the two ended up in a dispute
00:28:01
about money and that the young man went to law enforcement and said that gasey had forced him into some kind of sexual
00:28:08
act uh gasy is picked up for this he denies all of the charges against him uh later gasy was charged with an
00:28:17
additional charge with hiring a another boy to beat up his accuser uh gasy offered some money to another young man
00:28:25
so that the young man could pay off his car Loan in exchange he was going to beat up this kid and the way that this
00:28:32
story goes down is that the the hired young man he gets the kid into his car he drives him to a wooded area where he
00:28:41
sprays him in the face and eyes with mace and then he he tries to beat him up however the boy he fights back and he
00:28:49
ends up breaking the boy's nose and he manages to get away he then calls police and lets them know that he was attacked
00:28:56
by this other boy so when this boy is picked up and taken into police custody he then in exchange gives them John
00:29:05
Wayne gase's name again explaining that you know I was hired to attack this kid ultimately the judge in this situation
00:29:13
sentenced John Wayne gasey to 10 years in Iowa State Reformatory for men the maximum time that you are allowed to
00:29:21
give for this such offense uh John Wayne gasy was 26 years old at this time now shortly after gasey entered prison his
00:29:30
wife divorced him on the grounds that he had violated their marriage vows now while in prison he was he was considered
00:29:37
a model prisoner he remained nonviolent and well- behaved and he hoped for well he was a plus-sized model prisoner and
00:29:45
he hoped for an early parole and after 18 months later well John Wayne gasey his parole is approved we'll get right
00:29:53
back to the sick and twisted mind of John Wayne gasy after this quick beer [Music]
00:30:04
break at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the farmers who work hard to put food on our tables and for the families
00:30:10
who make crystal Farms a part of their holiday traditions we're thankful to be the shredded cheddar in your legendary
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baked mac and cheese and to top your pecan pie with entirely too much whipped cream this year Crystal Farms is giving
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thanks to both sides of the table by offering savings on holiday Essentials and by sourcing our cheese from Family
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Farms across the Heartland learn more at Crystal Farms cheese.com this show is sponsored by better help do
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Mrs be's clearance and [Music] Outlet all right we're back all right cheers mates and so John Wayne gasey was
00:32:13
living in Iowa he sentenced to 10 years in prison for sodomy charges and after only 18 months in prison well they let
00:32:21
John Wayne gasy go in June of 1970 John Wayne gasy left prison and he wanted to return to well just like Robert Johnson
00:32:30
first said and later The Blues Brothers he returned to Sweet Home Chicago now John Wayne gasy never ended up having
00:32:38
the type of relationship that he desired with his father and he never got a chance to rectify that situation after
00:32:45
getting out of prison because John's father passed away during his time in prison this affected JN big time I think
00:32:53
maybe because when Jon's dad dies well Jon is in prison and for sodomy charges too so in a sense isn't John the
00:33:02
homosexual stupid loser that his father always told him that he would be and that he was mhm I think John wanted to
00:33:10
do something with his life to prove to his father that he wasn't stupid that he wasn't a loser and maybe wi his father's
00:33:18
approval and affection at some point in his life right and and he had that for a
00:33:24
small period mhm with the family and everything but now that's that's all wiped away so John Wayne gasey moved
00:33:30
home he moved in with his uh mother and obtained work as a chef in Chicago restaurant uh a job that he seemed to
00:33:38
enjoy and he worked at it with quite a bit of enthusiasm right and after a few months of living with his mother gasy
00:33:44
decided he wanted to buy a house and his mother had been impressed with how he had adjusted to life outside of the
00:33:51
prison and she decided to help him get a house now this would be located just outside of Chicago City Limits and all
00:33:58
of his family claimed that after John Wayne gayy got out of prison he had this insatiable drive to be something and
00:34:06
become something yeah and it was in 1971 when John Wayne gasy met Carol Huff um she was newly divorced
00:34:16
mother oh hold on not to correct you but that's not when they met they were they
00:34:20
were friends from childhood basically school school friends well they they they became engaged at some point and I
00:34:27
believe this took place at some 1971 they weren't married until the following year Carol Huff was a newly
00:34:34
divorced mother of two she had two daughters right um you know you know after the fact people say that gasy
00:34:42
probably romanced uh this woman who was in a state of emotional vulnerability um and that she she fell
00:34:49
for him she she says that she was attracted to gas's charm and his generosity well he's a hard worker and
00:34:55
she believed he would be a good Prov provider for her and her children she was aware of gas's prison experience um
00:35:02
yet she trusted that he had changed his life around for the better uh and Carol and her daughters quickly settled into
00:35:10
their new home with John Wayne gasy well and she also knew about what he claimed
00:35:15
to be uh him being bisexual it was around the same time that John Wayne gasy decided he wanted to go into
00:35:23
business for himself um and he was going to strike it out on his own he began a contracting business named PDM Inc which
00:35:32
stood for painting decorating and maintenance Incorporated uh he hired young teenage boys to work for him he
00:35:39
told his friends that he hired such young men to keep the cost low uh which is which is true he could hire and pay
00:35:47
guys that were 15 to 18 years old and pay them $5 an hour right which was almost double what kids could make at
00:35:55
other jobs at that time he could pay them well and at the same time he would be paying them quite a bit less than he
00:36:02
would have to pay an adult with a good amount of experience however that might not have
00:36:08
been gas's only reason for hiring these teenage boys well I mean and we we've kind of gone back and forth on this um
00:36:16
because a lot of these documentaries when they talk about gayy they never bring up the idea of pedophilia really
00:36:23
you know it's always just talks about you know that he was attracted to teenage boys or young men they most of
00:36:30
the time they say young men yeah and and I think one at the time of all this stuff going around this is not a
00:36:37
commonly used term pedophilia did not become a commonly commonly used term until the 80s MH um and probably the
00:36:47
late 80s well and we talked about that when we covered the Johnny gosh case you know that the investigators were using
00:36:53
the word pedophilia or pedophile and parents were saying they didn't know what that term meant they had not heard
00:37:00
that term before and this was taking place in the early 80s and this was different times I mean there was a lot
00:37:05
of people that there was a lot of people that did not even finish High School they' just go straight to work so we
00:37:11
were kind of talking earlier about how maybe they don't use the term pedophilia because back then you know 17
00:37:20
18-year-old boy is back then was a man could have been looked at as in The public's eye as a man because you know
00:37:29
it seems to me like you have this you have this mindset that that maybe of course 18 is the separation you know 18
00:37:38
is the legal divider between a child and an adult however but in the Public's eye
00:37:43
and the you know the general consens consensus I got was that a man and a boy were more separated by a high school
00:37:52
diploma rather than being 18 because like you said a lot of times people would get that high school diploma and
00:37:58
they would go work for their father in their father's business or they would go off on a trade uh they would start their
00:38:03
own business they would go into some form of work that could end up being their career their adult life yeah I
00:38:09
think you see this a l lot like with movies like days and confused and stuff like that you graduated high school it
00:38:16
is time you're entering the real world it's time to become a man mhm well the gay Seas threw a lot of parties uh and
00:38:24
when it came to parties well John Wayne gasy he was the man he he knew what to do he knew how to throw a great party uh
00:38:32
he would often host block parties and yard parties a lot of them were were themed parties um you know he did some
00:38:39
things like um I think he did like a western style party and a southern Jubilee and a Hawaiian party uh so these
00:38:46
big extravagant parties that he would throw and anyway at gas's parties he always had a lot of booze poker games
00:38:54
you know maybe some pot and remember we said that he was a member of the JC's well this is something that carried on
00:39:02
once he moved back to Chicago he was a member of the JC's but he was also a member of the democratic party as well
00:39:11
yeah so uh Ted Bundy was a Republican and John Wayne gasy was a Democrat so that's why I'm an
00:39:18
independent but gayy was able to get more people to sign up for the JC's and more people to sign up for the Democrat
00:39:26
party than anyone else in the area and he was up to his old tactics uh he was he was even given some awards you know
00:39:34
like Man of the Year Awards and things like that and you know he did this uh for his work with the JC's but but also
00:39:44
with the Democratic party he was throwing these extravagant parties but they were also those parties that we
00:39:51
talked about before you know where stag films yeah it was a lot of booze maybe some pot some gambling but it would end
00:39:57
up with these stag films maybe hire some strippers uh some sometimes escorts and
00:40:02
things like that yeah and just let's put this into perspective a little bit this
00:40:07
is people in the community getting together people of power in the community getting together and being
00:40:13
persuaded by stag films yeah and other foolishness right I mean it's it's that stuff exist that's that's to me is
00:40:23
creepy as hell it's weird and but again for gayy it's way to get his membership enrollment up um and and to me it also
00:40:31
shows that some of these newcomers these newbies seem to be there in my opinion more for these crazy parties rather than
00:40:38
to actually be involved in the community itself yeah these animals are probably littering everywhere well it's around
00:40:44
the same time that John Wayne gasy Unleashed his new creation uh Pogo the clown he he he becomes a clown and I
00:40:52
know at different parts during his little clown experiment or whatever he was doing that
00:40:59
that he did go under different names but I believe Pogo the clown is the most accepted one that that he you know
00:41:06
fancied himself yeah most popular one but hey gayy put on your cup son put on your cup well uh he like I said he
00:41:15
Unleashed his new creation of pogo the clown G John Wayne gasy was a clown I'm going to unleash a punch to your nuts he
00:41:23
entertained children at parties and even volunteered at local hospitals you know
00:41:28
to try to cheer up the kids and and maybe it's just because what we know now about John Wayne gasy but looking at
00:41:37
those pictures I mean other than him being fat you know other than him being a a pudgy guy a
00:41:43
plus-size prison model he still he's still a creepy looking clown to me I don't know if it's again I don't know if
00:41:50
it's cuz we know about him or if well one of the things that I noticed was you know the mouth the way he painted the
00:41:58
mouth that most clowns paint circular mouths uh and his had points yeah he had points at the end uh yeah you'd think
00:42:08
but you know and look you'd think you know weight aside you'd think that maybe you know Santa Claus is Jolly M right so
00:42:16
that maybe it'd be a jolly clown but I think because of the points on the mouth is really kind of what gave it away and
00:42:24
also you know John Wayne had these um these pointy eyebrows mhm you know just that he he inherited so I think those
00:42:34
those two elements is kind of what makes Pogo a little creepo mhm well and before
00:42:41
we get to far down on another road let's go ahead and go through this portion of
00:42:47
John Wayne gas's life him and his wife start having marital problems and it's believed that some of this stemmed from
00:42:55
her picking up on gas's homosexual desires now we had said earlier that you know she was aware of his prison
00:43:02
sentence well he was aware she was aware of his bisexuality yeah and he's Pro she's probably aware of his version of
00:43:10
his prison sentence and why he was guilty right um but yeah she's aware that he he is bisexual but at the same
00:43:19
time you know she's also finding magazines around the house uh with lots of naked men in them uh books of about
00:43:26
gay fantasies and he's very casual nonchalant about kind of leaving these all over the house and then almost every
00:43:34
room of the house as well but at this well and I don't think that matters if it's you know homosexual thoughts or
00:43:40
just heterosexual thoughts I think if you're with somebody there's a lot of times that you'd be offended you know
00:43:47
like if you're just you know there's play boy magazines everywhere I think at some point your wife might go hey can
00:43:54
you just pick this up yeah you know you got to throw it in my face like this well you have to show respect for your
00:44:00
spouse as well as there's the children that are in the house as well you know you can't just you shouldn't just be
00:44:06
having these things laying around but at the same time he's also becoming a little more violent uh his his
00:44:14
personality is changing as far as she is concerned and at this point he's yelling
00:44:20
a lot uh he's he's even throwing furniture at times when he gets upset he's becoming his father yes this sort
00:44:27
of thing is what's going on and it eventually Carol would file for divorce uh the the couple's divorce became Final
00:44:36
in 1976 so yeah drinking is getting heavier he's becoming more violent uh he's having more sexual desires and this is
00:44:48
all going to come to a big flame yeah and the two of them have basically no romance between the two of them for
00:44:54
quite some time as well now I wanted to go down that road before we we got to this because we're going to want to go
00:45:00
down the romance road yeah okay I love you captain now we're going to start talking and introducing some new people
00:45:07
here uh but these are certainly key persons to this story and to this case and the first one that I want to
00:45:14
introduce is 17-year-old Johnny butovich I think he's been waiting all day to say
00:45:19
that name old butovich uh but anyway Johnny worked for John Wayne gayy that's my last name and in fact but in fact
00:45:27
they worked a lot of hours together and they even hung out together off of the clock uh at one point they are around
00:45:35
each other so much and so often that people started referring to them as Big John and Little John and Johnny or
00:45:43
little John to some was like most young men he was he was into cars he took great pride in his 68 Dodge uh not only
00:45:52
did he drive it and race it but he was always working on the vehicle as well and having this job allowed him to you
00:46:00
know work on this vehicle and spend some money on his car uh Johnny did remodeling work for gasy at PDM
00:46:07
contractors a position that he enjoyed a position that paid him well and you also
00:46:12
have your boss that's probably getting you booze and you couldn't get booze at the time mhm you know so everybody knows
00:46:19
you know when you're 1920 and you're trying to get some booze everybody knows they 21 or 22y old friend that would get
00:46:26
them booze right right you keep that contact close right even as close as they were however their their working
00:46:33
Rel relationship ended abruptly when gasy refused to pay Johnny for two weeks worth of work right um angered at gasy
00:46:43
uh and angered that he had withheld his pay Johnny went over to his boss's house
00:46:48
this was with two friends to try to scare gayy and to try to collect his money um when Johnny confronted gasy
00:46:57
about the paycheck gasy refused to pay him and now of course we have a large argument Johnny threatened that he was
00:47:04
going to tell the authorities that John Wayne gasy was not deducting taxes from the earnings uh gasy was enraged and he
00:47:13
screamed at him and we have this big fight going on but what ends up happening is Johnny and his friends
00:47:19
basically realized that there wasn't a whole lot that they could do about this situation and they have
00:47:26
you're kind of [ __ ] out of luck at this point yeah he's just not going to give
00:47:29
you any money MH and um at the end of the day they end up leaving Casey's house Johnny dropped off his friends at
00:47:36
their homes and he drove away and then he's never seen alive again but later on we'll have a odd explanation of this
00:47:46
story coming from gasy himself yes the next person we want to talk about is Michael bonan now he was about 17 years
00:47:53
old as well um and he disappeared in June of 76 and this is a situation where he was supposed to catch a train uh he
00:48:00
was going to meet his stepfather's brother at some location uh authorities are not certain that Michael ever got on
00:48:09
that train uh there but they know that he never made it to meet his stepfather's brother he just simply
00:48:16
disappeared he's not seen after that right and now in the same area we have a we have more boys going missing yes uh
00:48:23
the next boy is Billy Carol junor uh he's the kind of kid that was always getting into trouble um at the age of Oh
00:48:31
Billy at the age of nine um he was in a juvenile home for stealing a purse at the age of 11 he was caught with a gun
00:48:40
and he got into more trouble um now Billy in and out of trouble his whole life he spent most of his time on the
00:48:46
streets in uptown Chicago now at the age of about 16 Billy was making money by arranging meetings between teenage boys
00:48:56
an adult clientele for money that's definitely put him in a compromising position yes because I don't know if it
00:49:03
was because of Billy's little business that he had but he knew John Wayne gasey and ultimately just like Johnny and
00:49:10
Michael that we just spoke of Billy also disappeared suddenly this was on June 13th of 1976 Billy left his home and he
00:49:18
was never seen alive again do we have any other boys that went missing we have Gregory godzik um he actually had a job
00:49:26
with PDM Inc uh he worked for John Wayne gasy and he didn't mind the odd jobs that he was picking up or the work that
00:49:35
he would do but on December 12th 1976 uh Gregory dropped his date off at her home a girl that he had had a crush
00:49:44
on for some time and and been seeing her for a little bit and he drove off she says in the direction of his house um
00:49:52
but the following day police found Gregory's car the this was a 1966 Pontiac but Gregory was nowhere to be
00:50:00
found um he was he was 17 years old at the time in January of 1977 19-year-old John seek also disappeared much like the
00:50:11
other young men before him he had driven off in his 1971 Plymouth Satellite and he was never seen alive again but
00:50:19
interestingly enough a short while after the young man vanished another teenager
00:50:24
was picked up by police and a 1971 Plymouth Satellite while trying to leave a gas station without paying for the
00:50:32
gasoline right the young man was a one Michael Rossi and said that the man that he worked with could explain the
00:50:42
situation this being the situation with the vehicle uh the man that he worked with was John Wayne gasy and when police
00:50:51
met with gasy gasy explained to the police that Zeke had so sold him the car sold John way and gasy the car and that
00:50:59
John Zeke wanted to run away and he needed some money to take off and to get set up elsewhere so he sold John Wayne
00:51:07
gasy the car before he hitchhiked out of town gasy then went on to explain that he gave the car to his employee Michael
00:51:15
Rossi and trade for some labor so rather than paying him for a bunch of work that
00:51:20
Rossy did he ends up giving him the car well I don't think a lot of this stuff would have happened if he was like on a
00:51:27
sexual offender website you know yeah some kind registry right because all the stuff that happen in Iowa is not
00:51:35
carrying over to Chicago no so we don't really have that on his record and obviously cops are getting a little
00:51:42
suspicious at this point well and and the thing we've seen with gasy too is yeah there might be some people that are
00:51:49
aware of this sodomy charge that that he had in Iowa or aware that he spent some
00:51:54
time in prison because the thing with gasy is he liked to not only did he like to talk to people but he also liked to
00:52:00
lie and embellish stories about himself so I could see him possibly telling some
00:52:05
of these 17 18 year old boys that yeah you know you know what I'm a real man I've been to prison before you know um
00:52:13
oh what were you but now you got to answer the question well what were you in prison for and um I'm a real man
00:52:19
because I like real boys yeah but but then you get the John Wayne gasy version of why he was prison you know
00:52:26
embellishing and probably just lying about the situation uh we also have Robert Gilroy um he was an avid
00:52:34
Outdoorsman uh camper he loved horseback riding on September of 1977 uh he's 18 years old at this time
00:52:43
Gilroy was supposed to catch a bus with uh some friends to go horseback riding but he never shows up for this event now
00:52:51
Gilroy's father that's like the second one that was trying to catch a bus yeah Gilroy's father is a police Sergeant a
00:52:58
Chicago Police Sergeant at the time and he immediately began searching for his son and they un Unleashed a fullscale
00:53:06
investigation with big-time searches uh you know even though they did all this effort nothing turned up and when the
00:53:14
leads stopped coming in Robert Gilroy was still missing why this is all going on John Wayne gazy has an employee by
00:53:21
the name of David crra right well according to the documentary the guy's name is David crra now let's talk about
00:53:29
this for a little bit go ahead cuz you know we both watched a bunch of Doos on him and uh there's just some facts that
00:53:39
are just not lining up right some of the names some of some of the stories are the same but some of the names aren't
00:53:47
the same well you know what I wonder about that Captain is when you when you watch some of these documentaries okay
00:53:53
first of all a a John Wayne gasey documentary there's a whole batch of them out there I mean there's a ton of
00:54:00
them out there but but they're typically what like 40 minutes to maybe 1 hour long this is a much longer and much
00:54:09
necessary to be longer story to tell than 40 minutes or an hour long there's a whole lot more of a story here and the
00:54:18
thing that I worry about with some of these documentaries we've seen it in other ones you know that we see on
00:54:22
Netflix and Amazon Prime and like that sometimes they lump some of these stories together right and so names get
00:54:31
miss you know they get mashed together timelines get a little bit blurry um so so this story could be coming from David
00:54:39
or it could be coming from it could be coming from I used the name Michael Rossi earlier now the thing here is
00:54:46
Captain um you know the story with gasy gets even more convoluted because he lived in Iowa for a while and then he
00:54:52
lived in Chicago for a while and a lot of of the stuff that he did he did in both places in both locations right so
00:54:59
that makes it more confusing but when you watch there's one documentary in particular where they name this
00:55:05
character David crra now mind you he is it's one of those situ you know they put
00:55:10
the light behind him he's sitting in a chair his face is kind of darkened out you can't see his face real well and
00:55:16
then they just kind of they flash this name David crra well his story goes like this so whether it's David or if it's
00:55:23
this Rossy character or some other name altogether right the the story is that the crawl space mhm he is originally
00:55:32
hired to dig trenches in this crawl space he doesn't know why now what can happen in like a half basement if you
00:55:41
have a cross space you can dig out that cross space and then make your basement a full basement that's a very tough
00:55:47
thing to do but you can do that so he doesn't really know why he's digging these trenches in this crawl space but
00:55:53
he does there there actually depending on who you talk to there's a few different stories as to why gasy wanted
00:56:01
these trenches dug in this crawl space right one of the stories being that they they were going to insert some kind of
00:56:09
pipes that were going to go down and they needed the trenches for pipes the other story being that there was a foul
00:56:15
odor that was in the house and that gasy was telling people that it was coming from this crawl space because it would
00:56:23
typically get saturated with water and would just kind of sit in there and it would just it would unleash this foul
00:56:30
odor throughout the entire home and he was trying to rid the house of this of this structural problem that was going
00:56:37
on right so this kid is you know he's like 16 years old 17 years old digging these trenches in the crawl space of uh
00:56:44
John Wayne gas's house eventually he rents a room from him so he would come home and and he
00:56:52
he'd lived there for a short period of time work working for for John and doing maybe probably working in the community
00:56:58
for other people as well but one night he comes home and I this just I think super creepy he comes home and Jon is
00:57:08
sitting there in his Pogo outfit M you know dressed full clown get up and he's drinking and he's like hey join me let's
00:57:18
have some drinks let's smoke some pot and gayy was a big by this point he's probably a pretty big drinker um you
00:57:26
know I'd heard stories that he would drink full glasses of vodka and things like that right so he's he's pretty
00:57:33
wasted already he's lit and David is drinking with him and he brings out these handcuffs and he's kind of showing him a
00:57:44
trick like how here's how you put on the handcuffs and here's how you get out of
00:57:48
it like remember how we talked about like when you're a kid you have the fake handcuffs mhm and then you have these
00:57:54
little like little switch on him on the side so you can just push that little lever and it opens up so we kind of
00:58:00
talked about that he probably had two sets of handcuffs and he probably had a trick handcuff like here see watch me I
00:58:07
put on the handcuffs and look I can get out of it m you try them on so when he goes to try them on he can't get out of
00:58:16
it and he said well how do you get out of this thing he goes well you got to know the trick he goes well what's the
00:58:22
trick he said well the trick is you got to have a key right and he starts laughing so he's sitting there and his
00:58:29
full clown get up right just laughing like a little kid like I got you I got you and now at this
00:58:38
point he's poking him poking him I got you you can't get out just acting like a kind of a crazy
00:58:44
person so this individual that is tied up he then says you know you got to let me out you know and he's still being
00:58:53
nice at this point they're still kind of playful yeah John's being weird dancing
00:58:59
around with the Poo outfit on but this guy eventually says hey look you got to let me out or I'm going to kick your ass
00:59:06
mhm and this sets gasey into a rage right M so now he is fighting basically for his life against gayy but
00:59:18
he's in handcuffs and he basically is able to because gasy is so intoxicated he's able to knock gayy over
00:59:28
grab the key run to the room that he's running get himself out he leaves and a couple days later moves out um of of
00:59:39
John Wayne gas's house MH the crazy thing to me is could you imagine a a big you know gay he wasn't tall but he was a
00:59:50
bigger guy he was he was short and stocky right but still a lot of mass and he's drunk and he goes into a rage and
01:00:00
that's not the creepy part the creepy part is you're in handcuffs yeah you know I don't mind uh punching you in
01:00:08
your face John W gazy if if you know but if my hands are tied behind my back I'm
01:00:14
[ __ ] out of luck you know good luck fighting that fight yeah it's just every time I hear that story I've heard it
01:00:20
maybe three or four times but every time I hear it it's just it always just hands get a little sweaty Well here
01:00:27
here's another creepy story for you here captain and this took place in May of 1977 78 I'm sorry uh Chicago Illinois a
01:00:36
man by the name of Jeff ringal now uh he had recently returned from a vacation to
01:00:42
Florida he decided to visit an area called New Town um it's a popular area of Chicago uh because he wanted to check
01:00:49
out some of the many popular bars they had there as well as disco clubs in that area now while bar bar hopping and
01:00:57
walking through the area he sees a black Oldsmobile now inside the vehicle is a heavy set driver and the driver leaned
01:01:07
out from the window and he's complimenting uh this young man on his unseasonably you know how unseasonably
01:01:15
tan he is and this Sparks up a conversation um and they continued with some small talk and eventually the
01:01:22
driver then asked if Jeff wanted to smoke a joint and ride around in his car and they would just ride around town and
01:01:29
smoke a couple joints well this sounded like a good idea to Jeff so he hopped in
01:01:34
the car this sounds like an awful idea they drive off uh they're talking they're smoking driving around when all
01:01:42
of a sudden the heavy set driver attacks Jeff he grabbed him and quickly shoved a
01:01:49
rag over his face now the rag was doused with chloroform Jeff lost Consciousness
01:01:55
now Jeff was kind of going in and out of Consciousness for quite some time at one
01:02:00
point while he was awake he could see street signs and you know the car's still moving and he's trying to see
01:02:09
these street signs and try to figure out where the car is going maybe where he's
01:02:13
being taken to well he doesn't know this area right and and of course he would only be awake for a
01:02:20
short period of time for a short little spurts of time before blacking out again
01:02:25
on one of these times that he came to the stranger again grabbed him and covered up his face with this chloroform
01:02:33
soaked Rag and he passed out again at some point Jeff remembers being inside of a home and the driver was there and
01:02:44
they both are naked at one point Jeff remembered seeing on the floor several several dildos and the stranger [ __ ] was
01:02:54
threat threatening him and telling him how he was going to use them uh Jeff no was viciously raped and tortured for
01:03:03
hours um and but thank God that he had been drugged and knocked out for most of it now the next morning Jeff awoke from
01:03:14
uh from these blackouts but but when he wakes up he's now fully clothed and he's
01:03:21
propped up against the statue in Chicago's Lincoln Park he was in in a lot of pain an
01:03:30
amazing amount of pain and he went to the hospital where he ended up staying there for 6 days Jesus Christ now during
01:03:38
this Hospital stay Jeff reported the abduction and the rape to police but he could only provide the police with a
01:03:46
little information regarding the attack because he was blacking out over and over again MH um he he could recall
01:03:54
called the vehicle a black Oldsmobile he gave them a description of the heavy set man that was driving the
01:04:00
vehicle and he could tell them basically useless information about some of the details of the inside of the house like
01:04:08
the the color of the carpeting or patterns on the carpeting right you're in the city of Chicago yeah and here's
01:04:17
the thing this is this you know you're in a whole lot of pain you're in the hospital for 6 days that should explain
01:04:23
to most of us how how beaten up this guy was he's in the hospital for 6 days and you're
01:04:29
giving this report and you can you you probably mad at yourself because you can only remember little bits of information
01:04:37
and the police basically they they outwardly tell Jeff that they were not hopeful that they would be able to find
01:04:46
the guy that did this let alone convict him of anything because because really they didn't have any information or much
01:04:53
to confirm who this abductor could be Jeff suffered several skin lacerations Burns and he also suffered
01:05:03
from permanent liver damage believed to be caused from the the chloroform and of course he suffered
01:05:10
severe emotional trauma as well uh obviously but he was he was fortunate enough to be alive because what what
01:05:20
Jeff didn't know was that the man who attacked and raped him well not many of the people escaped that man and very few
01:05:29
victims of his ever survived now here's one crazy thing though after Jeff got out of the hospital and after he was
01:05:39
able to kind of shake off some of this trauma and get over the fear of the whole thing that had just happened he
01:05:46
decided he was going to go back to that same side of town because it was kind of
01:05:50
like a party side of town it was it was place where people you know smoke a little dope maybe you pick up a girl or
01:05:57
pick up a guy whatever and he thought you know what I'm going to go back to that side of town because he had this he
01:06:04
had this black Oldsmobile vehicle that he that he got into he had the image of that thing
01:06:10
tattooed on his brain he knew well he probably had the the you know the vision of whoever attacked him MH you know just
01:06:18
if I can see this guy again I I can catch him yeah and he ultimately went back to that side of town several times
01:06:27
uh until he ended up spotting the vehicle that he believed was the one that abducted him right and he wrote
01:06:34
down the license plate and he was later able to provide that license plate number to the Chicago PD there's a lot
01:06:41
more that we have to get to tomorrow the complete unraveling of this psychopath John Wayne gasey so join us back here
01:06:50
tomorrow in the garage and for everything true crime go to True Crime garage r.com and until next time be good
01:06:57
be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the
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