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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always we close like Starsky and Hutch here is the captain it's good to
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be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend okay we got some more of that pickle
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beer best made pickle beer by the good folks over at Martin house Brewing Company they have some other versions of
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this that I wish that I would have tried while we were there they have a Spicy Pickle a bloody mary pickle beer but
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today it's best made pickle beer by Martin house Brewing garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five
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cheers to our friends a big cheers is due in fact first up cheers to Matt and Trina and Parts Unknown and a big we
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like your jib to Ashley and Greenville Tennessee and there's another Ashley out there but she is in Rayford North
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Carolina cheers to you well hell let's cheers all the Ashley's and a big cheers to Amanda in Washington DC next up
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cheers to Terrell and Amanda in Denim Springs Louisiana and last but certainly not least we have a big Ron Swanson
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please and thank you that goes out to Dr Roy from Round Rock Texas at everyone we
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just mentioned they went to our website truecrimegarage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fund for the beer
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run and for that we thank you pwrun beer run if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs check out
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our opponent's show called off the Record we love to do case updates every other week and if you're not listening
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then you're not nasty and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
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let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] thank you when APD Sergeant John Jones was asked
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about how he would describe the yogurt shop crime scene he simply said wholesale Carnage
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now as to the crime scene and how things were found we're going to review that now but keep in mind the uphill battle
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for Crime Scene texts the detectives and the arson investigators this place was a
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mess and think back to our trailer at the top of yesterday's show when Sergeant Jones wrote a note to the
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district attorney that said robbery plus sexual assault plus multiple child victims plus bondage plus gunshot wounds
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plus fire heat smoke water damage plus no known Witnesses equal the homicide arson and DA's worst nightmare put a big
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underline Under Fire heat smoke and water damage so obviously smoke heat and fire damage from the fire the fire at
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one point getting so hot that the shelving unit melted along with items on it and because of the fire we're also
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going to have water damage at the crime scene one from the powerful blast of the
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firefighters hoses but compound that with the fire having caused a PVC pipe break which was flooding the store
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before the firefighters were on the scene let's also keep in mind that no one arriving to the fire is expecting to
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find murdered victims of course unfortunately you have fatal fires but here we have an arson set with the
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purpose of covering up the murders and the crimes committed between the times of 1103 pm and 11 48 pm
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I have said time and time again Captain how much I hate a situation when emergency services are responding to one
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type of call when in all actuality they are in fact responding to a scene where much more has gone down it's always
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difficult for the investigators because you often cannot undo the actions taken by those responding to the scene like we
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know fire destroys evidence water destroys evidence and it's already a difficult crime scene because it's a
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public place there's going to be a lot of evidence that there's multiple people in that building at one point during
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that day yes and again the responders responding to one type of call and then finding out something else it always
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severely hurts the investigative process some examples Mara Murray they're responding to a broken down vehicle or a
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single car accident when this actually was also a missing person possibly abduction possible homicide
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yeah or JonBenet Ramsey they're responding to a kidnapping not a murder in the house here we have a fire and a
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fire coming from a restaurant they likely have responded to many of these types of calls and other local food
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vendors grease fires or the store closes and someone simply left a burner on it happens all of the time here we have
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arson to destroy evidence to further cloak the Killer's identities as they flee into the night well like you said
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this place is known to close at 11 so when you see that there was a fire and it's almost midnight as First Responders
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were thinking all this fire happen after people locked up and went home so what else was found at the scene well in the
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process of Prosecuting two of the arrested four the prosecutor went into a lengthy and
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graphic description of the crime scene a little warning here I know this is a true crime show but this crime scene is
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particularly gruesome prosecutor Robert Smith said the firefighters had to break
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down the front door of the store because it was locked with the key still in the
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lock he said firefighters could not see into the store because of smoke after the
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fire had been put out they discovered Amy Air's body first and then the bodies of the other three girls
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Ayers was found lying in the middle section of the store that's his words to be clear this is still the back room but
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she is found in the front portion of this back room the other three victims were located at the very back of the
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store near the melted shelving unit and the back door Amy Ayers was found without clothes and on her side face
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down near her was an empty cash drawer the medical examiner determined her cause of
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death to be strangulation and gunshot wounds to the Head a 22 caliber bullet was recovered the other three were found
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in the back portion of the store in the back room Sarah Harbison was found gagged with her hands tied behind her
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investigators determined that she had been sexually assaulted Smith said her body was extensively burned Eliza Thomas
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was found on top of Sarah Harbison in a similar manner her body and face were burned beyond recognition
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and she was identified by dental records so do they think accelerant was used on
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their bodies no well and that's frankly a difficult question to answer because through through the course of time the
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fire investigation and their determinations have changed or been modified let's say over the years so in
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the original investigation and I have a good portion to cover this later there was General thought that there was
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not much of an accelerant used at all and we'll Circle back to that but we have Smith who said that investigators
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believe that Jennifer harbison's body was originally on top of the other two girls however she was found nearby
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having been moved either by the fire or the blast of the water hoses and Smith makes it pretty clear to the court that
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they believe all the girls were dead before the fires were started the prosecution reasoned that since all had
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been shot in the head their bodies were moved and stacked as they were all found
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face up but that statement isn't completely clear about the crime scene exactly so what he's referencing here
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is the bodies of the three girls that were found at the very back of the store because we know Amy Ayers was found in a
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slightly different location she's found face down however the other three girls were found face up leading them to
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believe because of the way that they were shot that they had to have been moved after they were shot and killed
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because the fire was so intense the crime scene unit had to sift with shovels and screen to find evidence
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eventually they found some bullet shells in the corner near the rear door of the
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store investigators found a pile of burned clothes included were remnants of denim fabric
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and clothing from all of the girls as well as a heart-shaped belt buckle that had belonged to Amy Ayers however police
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teams never recovered the belt that went with this belt buckle a ring that belonged to Sarah harbison's boyfriend
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was also found so this was a ring that she wore on her finger and she took the time and made the effort to take that
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ring off for some reason is what Smith says right Sarah's wallet was also found there again this is another indication I
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don't know if there was money in the wallet but just another example of maybe money's not the prime goal here yeah I
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mean this case is very confusing because even just like having the victims undress
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what's what's the purpose if you know that you're going to start a fire to try to get rid of some evidence what would
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be the purpose of having them undress well the other crimes committed that night will dictate the purpose of having
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them undressed yeah obviously the guns used to kill the girls was a 22 caliber and a 380 caliber weapon they have never
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been found but could be identified by the characteristics left on the discharge bullets so we've not located
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these weapons but if they were ever located and tested in comparison to the bullets used to
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kill the girls we would be able to determine if it was in fact the match well this
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strangulation feels a little personable to me personable or necessary right so we have one victim that was that was
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strangled and but she was also shot twice right so what that tells me is there's a chance that
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someone may have thought that she was dead when in fact she was not or maybe she put up a fight this is going to lead
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us to hold back information so those of you that have listened to this show long time listeners you
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already know what hold back information is however if we have anybody a new listener maybe somebody from Texas that
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wants to check out our coverage of this case because of the 30-year marker coming up or maybe
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just a drunk listener that stumbled onto our show by accident I am fell fell into
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our show fell right into the garage hold back information is pretty simple stuff
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it's information that only the experts only the law enforcement agency investigating the case and the medical
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examiner's office would know you are simply holding on to this information and holding it back from the public
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because especially in a high profile crime or high-profile case as is the Austin yogurt shop murders case you will
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have false confessions and we will have plenty of them in this case and so it's important to hold back some specific
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details so that when those false confessions start coming in you can weed out the persons that did not commit this
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crime and we won't go into the psych the psychology of why or who would make a false confession
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we pointed that out and went over that quite a bit in our first time around in this case but let's review the hold back
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information here Captain this was decided on December 7th so the next day the next afternoon less than 24 hours
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after the girls were killed the Austin Police Department decides we are going to make a list and they
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created a list of 13 pieces of evidence to be held back and those items were number one how and where the fire was
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started but do we know where the fire started the fire has always been a bit of a pisser here in this case here
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Captain for seven years we were told well again they're holding back this information but later we
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learned that for seven years the arson investigators all agreed that the fire started on the shelves that
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shelving unit that melted now this shelving unit is located near where three of the bodies were recovered
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but it's always been believed that the fire started like on the second or third shelf
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and was started using things that would easily go up in flames right we have like paper products on this shelf we
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also have styrofoam products on the shelving unit anybody that's ever been in Cub Scouts and tossed a styrofoam cup
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into a campfire you know how quick those babies go up there were also things on this shelving
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unit that would have been highly flammable right like paint cans aerosol cans things of that nature right
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they're basically using that as their starter when confessions start coming in one thing that I found that was
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completely Bizarro is that a lot of the confessions we have people saying that the fire was started on the victims that
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they piled up the victims and then put some type of accelerant and several of the confessions they say lighter fluid
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from like like a Zippo can lighter fluid douse the that on top of the victims and
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then lit them that seems to that narrative seems to have changed right around the time that
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they're looking to convict these four individuals that they arrested the next piece of holdback information number two
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the key in the front door we've already discussed that how they would put the key in and lock it from the inside
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before closing up for the whole night and then leave through that door and then eventually sliding that key back
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underneath the door right this is something that would not be known to many people outside of employees of the
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icby store number three how much money was taken we can't say for certain how much money was taken we have in our
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notes 540 was missing from that night number four how the girls bodies were arranged so the stacking process and
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where they would be located inside the store is valuable information because again we're going to have confessions
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come forward and they're not going to be able to put the bodies where they were eventually found but when you have so
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many First Responders I think you said there was over 50 firefighters at the scene nearly 50 I don't know how many
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actually went into the store itself it's a good possibility that some of this information would be leaked out to the
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public yes and and it absolutely was and Austin PD admits that over the years that they were aware that somehow some
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of this information got out in fact but at the end of the day if you're a response first responder
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responding to a what you think is a fire and now you're dealing with four women that were brutally murdered that's
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something that weighs on you if you end up telling a couple people because you're struggling with that you know I I
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know that it hinders an investigation but these First Responders are human right but there's a lot of information
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on this list that won't be obvious to just somebody responding to the fire right and the other thing too here we're
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not sitting on this information pretending that only one person knew the answers to all 13 of these right we sit
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here 30 years later and don't know the answers to all 13 of these ourselves wow so but we still believe that the killer
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does the killer yes then would have known the answers to these questions or the the hold back information number
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five what was used to bind the girls number six that the office was not entered that's a very interesting one
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because again we have a situation remember that small office has a locked door on it and they were able to
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determine that that door was not accessed so yeah a lot and look a lot of these back areas they're not like and I
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don't know what kind of door this would have been but like when I used to teach and teach guitar lessons in a strip mall
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like those back office we there were chintzy doors I wouldn't take much to break one of those down if the door was
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locked you could huff and puff and blow the door down but but I agree with you on the sense that I don't know how much
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stealing money or getting money for this crime had much to do with anything the floor safe is in the office right even
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if you don't know that a safe is in this office if you take 540 or whatever the amount ended up being from the register
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you're probably looking for some more cash the office whether you think there's a
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safe in there or not is the place where that additional money would be you would
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at the very least access it and look around hell I worked at a place where we had a break in overnight
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they couldn't figure out how to open the safe so they removed the whole entire safe they just took it with them right
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and it was located like a week or two later about two or three hours away on the side of the highway with the door
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missing so people get creative when they're looking for money here we got a couple people that are
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offenders that either aren't looking for money or can't fight their way out of a
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paper bag number seven the office key was still under the cash register okay again you would need this key unless
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you're going to huff and puff and blow that door down you're going to need this key to get into the locked office right
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and I cannot imagine a situation where I am holding guns two children and demanding to know where
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the money is that one of them doesn't offer up that here's the key to the locked office in the back
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office no because it was it was company policy to drop the money at the end of the night it was also
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company policy that this is where they would leave their personal belongings so Eliza Thomas arrives at work just before
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7 pm and she places all of her personal belongings inside of that locked office to which later the next day when they're
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going through the crime scene they find all of her personal items still inside of that office yeah I agree that with a
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gun to your head you're not going to hold back that information number eight the caliber of weapons used and we know
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that to be a 22 and a 380. of course the the whole city is going to know that guns were used the key here is that they
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do not know what calibers were used they also would not know that two different guns were used and this is also
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something that the firefighters would not know when responding to the scene right and very likely something that
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even crime texts and medical examiners would not know until later in the autopsy process but it's also evidence
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that points to more than one attacker yep unless you're double fisted we have more than one killer here number nine
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that two pairs of the victims Underpants were missing never found at the scene now I guess it's not too hard to believe
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that they may have just gone up in smoke because we have a fire here but it seems
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to me like they're pretty thorough about what was found at the scene and what was
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not right number 10. this is key man and this is one that has really stuck with me throughout the years
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Amy Ayers was missing her leather bomber jacket okay so there's a little bit of a
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story here from my understanding this bomber jacket was a men's or a boy's bomber jacket and I believe this
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belonged to her older brother at one point but it was like one of her favorite things you know something that
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she wore this is also another indication that you know this is a a girl coming up
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and she's realizing hey I'm going out with friends on a Friday night and I'm starting to feel like a real teenager
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here because I'm doing you know older kids stuff and so while we say money doesn't seem to be of the utmost
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importance to these perpetrators one of them went out of their way to take the leather bomber jacket from the scene see
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to me that feels personable seems like I mean yeah look it could just be that they fancied that jacket
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but to me you start leaning to the towards the idea to these attackers take two pairs of the victim's underwear do
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they take this jacket for other reasons other than they might just like the jacket could be some kind of
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trophy if we're talking about uh serial offender or or otherwise number 11 Amy's Brews under her chin from a
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blow of some kind so at some point she is struck under the chin with either an item or a fist that left a bruise under
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her now one thing we need to point out here Captain that's key to this case and to the understanding of the crime scene
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itself is the three girls that are found in the very back of the yogurt shop are
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significantly more burned charred and damaged than Amy airs so where you're going to have a lot of information about
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Amy Ayers that simply due to her proximity to where the fire started right right the fire started in one
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location and it spreads through there from it spreads from there well we have First Responders arriving on the scene
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probably well not probably it's within minutes of the fire being set we don't know exactly what time the fire was set
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but we do know that the place was not on fire at all 1103 when somebody hit that
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no sale button we had the fire being reported at 11 47 PM number 12 that Amy was strangled in what she was strangled
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with number 13. that Amy was shot twice with two different caliber guns all of our other victims were only shot once
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and as we said and as noted in who killed these girls this list will have to be revised several times
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foreign [Music] [Music] all right we are back thank you for joining us you smell
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lovely cheers so there's so many things about this case that make me wonder like did they
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have a plan did these attackers have a plan to take out one of the victims right away
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so then they have less victims to try to control possibly and it's it's a sad situation
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of course again we will never really know until the proper person is found and locked up or persons or persons
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correct however I I think that we can probably to do some things about the the attackers and their actions and their
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plan and this is one thing that I thought that has always been another misstep in this
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investigation now I want to be clear here and give kudos where it should go and that should go to the Austin PD in
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this regard where Austin PD basically said in this investigation we are only concerned about the who we are not going
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to spend our whole time spinning our tires up on the Y right so but sometimes the Y leads you to the
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who well and when you're sitting here at our position captain in a smelly garage
00:26:18
we have to examine the who what why when and how come I don't think I threw some
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extra things in there that weren't necessary but you get that's what our show does we throw in a couple things
00:26:30
that are not necessary yeah so I think here when I review this what I'm seeing is a situation where maybe you're not so
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worried about being outnumbered if you are the perpetrator right there's four girls
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you're going to be outnumbered unless you have four perpetrators or more the situation that you do have is we have a
00:26:51
lot of terrible things going on in a short period of time so there's a lot of moving parts and pieces within the
00:26:57
course of about 45 minutes is really what I want to focus on and in 45 minutes we have sexual assault we have
00:27:05
terrorizing the girls we have robbery we also have an arson that's set and we have the the perpetrators successfully
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fleeing the scene all within about a 45 minute span now what that indicates to me if you're going to set an arson
00:27:21
you're somewhat of a sophisticated criminal and I don't mean people always get this wrong they think oh here Nick
00:27:28
goes calling some Maniac uh a brilliant individual I'm not saying that this was any type of high IQ criminal here or
00:27:36
criminals I'm simply saying criminally sophisticated meaning that they understand that this fire will destroy
00:27:43
evidence that this fire will help this fire will increase the probability and in the likelihood that they are not
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caught and so this fire is set for that purpose and that purpose alone well and also
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it's when you're calling somebody criminally sophisticated you're basically saying they're they're a
00:28:02
bigger douchebag they're bigger ding dong ass frog you know that's what you're saying it's not a compliment
00:28:09
you're you're putting the individual down that means that this dirt bag thought more about this crime and how
00:28:16
not to get caught the other thing too that the arson indicates to me is that high level of concern of being caught
00:28:24
and getting away with what they did so you're going to want to not be detected and gunshots are loud
00:28:32
and this is a short period of time I don't think that you are using those guns until you have to which would be at
00:28:40
the very end when when you are done doing whatever it is that you set out to do that is what you plan to do at the
00:28:47
end of those events no Witnesses burn the place and flee and so I think that the shooting and
00:28:55
unfortunately the additional injuries two Amy Ayers were items that were not necessarily
00:29:05
planned but were necessary because she did not and I I hate to even say these words but here you go she did not
00:29:15
die when the others did every one of the other girls we shot they died as expected
00:29:23
Amy Ayers did not die as expected and therefore we end up with the second gunshot we end up with the strangulation
00:29:31
at some point and we have some of the medical information that will back that thought up then assuming that the
00:29:40
gunshots happen at different times yes I don't believe for a second that she was
00:29:45
shot at the exact same time with two different guns well not at the exact same time I'm just you're saying that it
00:29:52
could be seconds later though right I mean we're talking the amount I'm not going to go into it because I don't have
00:29:58
the the stomach for it and I don't have the heart to do it but just sit back and
00:30:04
think without forcing me to do this how many horrible crimes happen in a span of just 45 minutes and that's being
00:30:14
that's giving extra time I don't even think they were there that long no and so you know you're you're doing
00:30:22
things very quickly and the science that will back up the thought of her being shot twice and why is simple Amy Ayers
00:30:30
was shot through the back of the head the same with the same 22 caliber gun used on the other girls but in her case
00:30:37
the bullet did not enter the brain right and so I think that is why we have she's
00:30:43
reacting to this and then the killers are reacting to her reaction you know we saw in the Lane Bryant shootings several
00:30:52
people they're all laid down the same way face down on the floor gun to the back of the head and one of them
00:30:58
twitched or moved or something happened and it didn't work it didn't kill one of
00:31:02
them but it killed the rest of them well that's also possible that this could be
00:31:07
a sign that that there was uh soft bullets and meaning that those bullets would have been bullets can become soft
00:31:16
over time and so these bullets could have been older bullets that's possible yes and
00:31:22
the thing here too is a 22 caliber gun is typically used in a situation and I don't I don't want to paint the picture
00:31:29
of of anybody thinking that this is some type of mob hit a 22 caliber gun is typically used in a crime where your
00:31:38
plan is to shoot the individual in the head and kill them with one shot why because most of the time a higher
00:31:46
caliber bullet will do what is called a through and through meaning that it enters the body at some point and it
00:31:53
goes through the body and exits the body at some point with a 22 caliber bullet you want to do
00:32:01
you're looking to do as much internal damage as possible if you want to kill somebody with one bullet so a 22 is
00:32:10
often used because it's not powerful enough in most cases to do a through and through shot it will go into the body
00:32:17
and then it bounces off of a lot of stuff doing a whole lot of damage in the process well I think it makes people
00:32:22
wonder when looking into this case are there separate victims is she separate from them yeah I don't see a
00:32:30
situation here and again we don't know we're kind of guessing here but I don't see a situation that one that there was
00:32:36
even enough time to to do it in this manner that that somebody went out of their way to kill one and then terrorize
00:32:43
the other three or the reverse of that kill the other three and terrorize one for an extended period of time I'm
00:32:50
seeing again they're doing something that's necessary and what's really interesting here is that
00:32:59
we're talking about a difference of a few minutes and I mean this is sad and heartbreaking to think about but the
00:33:06
difference of a couple of minutes could be the time that goes by when they learn
00:33:12
that what killed the other girls didn't kill Amy and so had they not figured that out in that very brief time period
00:33:21
She may have been able to get up and flee and I think that that's what she was in
00:33:27
the process of doing I think she she was crawling away from the other bodies I think she was shot originally in the
00:33:35
very same Locale as the other three girls and at some point she's reacting to the situation and crawled away or
00:33:43
started to flee somehow mustered up the strength to try to get away and unfortunately our killers are still in
00:33:51
that room or still present and have the awareness to see her reaction well it's also confusing
00:33:58
because like you said law enforcement is not going to sit around and try to figure out the why but maybe they're not
00:34:03
going to try to sit around and figure out the why because it seems very confusing in this case you have money
00:34:08
left behind so you have a room that they didn't even go into which has a safe you would think that if they had much
00:34:18
knowledge of this business at all that they wouldn't have left that bag of money behind nor would they leave that
00:34:26
safe behind so what was successful in killing the other girls and was attempted on Amy is what is called a
00:34:34
contact gunshot wound this is where there is evidence that proves that the gun was
00:34:43
right next to or up against the skin right at the time that the gun is fired do you have a gut feeling yourself
00:34:51
because you know this is the second time that we've we've been able to look it into this
00:34:57
case do you have a gut feeling as to motive or or why unfortunately I think the motive
00:35:03
here was sexual assault and probably multiple sexual assaults that's what I lean
00:35:10
towards as well it would not surprise me if these perpetrators were previously in
00:35:16
the yogurt shop and that could be earlier that day or could be the week before days before
00:35:22
I think that they were well aware that this was the type of location that is secluded it's a weird word to use
00:35:34
being that it's a public place but it's secluded as soon as those doors are locked for the night as soon as you turn
00:35:41
that key on on that front door nobody's coming in and I think that this is a situation
00:35:47
where they could have either the perpetrators stumbled upon an ideal situation for what it was that they
00:35:54
wanted to do or they came there knowing or expecting to find that and that might
00:36:00
mean that they scouted this location in advance the other thing too when you go all right well maybe they stumbled onto
00:36:07
a location in a situation that was ideal for what they wanted to do you wonder where else they went that day and night
00:36:13
looking for the ideal situation you know did they walk down to Mr gaddy's and go you know what there's too many
00:36:21
males in here there's too many employees working all at once let's try a different spot
00:36:25
yeah or it could be it could be a situation where the look I think this is possibly coming from a local individual
00:36:33
and somebody that's been there multiple times around closing time and went they're they're having high
00:36:41
school girls close up the shop this there's no there's no manager on a staff and on like you said seclusion
00:36:50
sounds strange like you said because it's a public place but first of all the the major places around there are
00:36:57
shutting down at nine o'clock the other places are shutting down at 10. so now that gives you a whole hour that if you
00:37:05
are from that area you know that place is one of the only places open past 10. so now that that's how it makes it even
00:37:14
more secluded and it's a yogurt shop there's some sometimes when you go into a yogurt shop or the last couple times
00:37:20
I've gone into ice cream shop you're the only customer in there you get your ice
00:37:24
cream and you and you you go and strangely Captain this case reminds me a lot you know people think of Las Cruces
00:37:32
Bowl or Las Cruces bowling alley that case when when Bray when you review Austin
00:37:37
yogurt shop case and yes there's a lot of similarities and I'm not and I'm not here sitting pretending that they were
00:37:44
perpetrated by the same individuals in Las Cruces Bowl we have a pretty good description of those who the two men
00:37:52
that carried out that crime but they are similar situations what I like in this crime too and if I were to
00:38:00
be air quotes here profiling are offenders and I think I I'm of the belief that you
00:38:08
are that we're looking at two people possibly three I cannot look at the evidence at the scene and believe that
00:38:15
one person carried this out I think that it gets difficult to go much higher than
00:38:20
three as far as the number of perpetrators but this crime reminds me a lot of the Cheshire murders where we
00:38:27
have two individuals that are going into a home they know what to expect they know who they think will be inside of
00:38:36
this home and they sexually assault they murder and they attempt to burn down the place
00:38:44
and once caught they're going to try to sell it to the public that oh we were just there to rob
00:38:51
the family and things got out of control things got out of hand we panicked and then we
00:38:58
ended up killing three of the four family members and setting the place on fire what I would be looking for and you
00:39:04
don't want to I don't I'm all for profiling and I'm a big fan of it I guess you would say uh it sounds like a
00:39:12
really terrible choice of words but you don't you don't want your theory or your thought process to
00:39:19
to put blinders on you in the course of your investigation but over the course of years when you don't have the answers
00:39:26
and you've not arrested someone you've not locked anybody up that sticks you got I think you got to start using those
00:39:34
methods and what I would have been looking for is probably two individuals that were recently released from prison
00:39:40
and probably individuals that have committed similar types of crimes in the past and what I
00:39:47
mean by that is probably not murder but I'm probably looking for somebody one or
00:39:52
two individuals with sexual assault cases one or two individuals with robbery cases maybe one of them's a
00:39:58
robber one of them's sexually assaulted in the past that's kind of where what my
00:40:03
gut tells me to me it looks like a crime of not just Opportunity by the perpetrators but also a crime that they
00:40:12
were they were looking to go out and do something maybe not of this magnitude but something horrific in nature we've
00:40:19
talked about this before you know with Bundy and other types of individuals that that some of these acts they become
00:40:26
addicted to it and I think what I'm seeing here is somebody that needed to do this for whatever reason as
00:40:34
disgusting as that is to say well my gut feeling tells me that there was two attackers
00:40:39
but I also think that it's possibly a local somebody that was making those threatening phone calls or those prank
00:40:49
calls I think it's closer to Holmen maybe more personable than people think it would be and also it's such a heinous
00:40:57
crime that if there's more than two attackers I think somebody would have told Somebody by now somebody would
00:41:04
have confessed yes and that that's traditionally how it works the more perpetrators you have of a crime the
00:41:10
higher probability that one of them at some point tells somebody right I mean it's just it's just math
00:41:16
baby garage math and the thing is people do it because it either weighs on their
00:41:21
conscience or they get drunk and tell somebody or they they tell somebody in a threatening manner but yeah the number
00:41:28
of perpetrators the higher that goes up the higher your probability goes up that
00:41:32
one of them tells somebody and my guess is that at least one of these individuals is
00:41:38
currently in prison on rape charges yeah and here thing that I would really like
00:41:44
to know with that we talked about that DNA evidence that the FBI has they've got a match or some kind of hit on it
00:41:52
and and I don't fully understand it and not going to pretend to but um I would really like to know where
00:41:59
exactly that they got their hit I do want to touch on something Captain before we get too far along here that
00:42:05
you had referenced earlier um one interesting tidbit that I found along the way in my research for this
00:42:13
week's case is that a woman by the name of Rhys price I believe her real name is
00:42:19
Teresa or Therese price but she goes by Rhys price at the time of the yogurt shop murders she was 24 years old she
00:42:28
was a manager that worked at that icby store for seven years the thing that I find interesting here is that she was
00:42:37
actually scheduled to work that night and a week or so in advance had made arrangements with one of the girls that
00:42:45
ended up working that night to trade shifts right now I'm not trying to paint a picture of anybody came there looking
00:42:51
for Reese price and this was the result but you said no manager on staff no manager on duty this is uh you know and
00:43:00
I said an ideal situation for what it is that I believe they were looking to do a 24 year old woman being the manager
00:43:09
at this store doesn't change if you're scouting this location I don't think that changes you from two
00:43:18
17 year olds to go on nope can't do it here nope you're you're correct if it's a sexually motivated crime yeah the
00:43:26
other thing that I found interesting too in uh Rhys Price's involvement with the
00:43:31
Austin PD she was God bless her she was very helpful to their investigation and helped in any way possible that she
00:43:38
possibly could one thing that that she passed along to the detectives was she said you know me
00:43:47
and one of the other girls we were receiving harassing phone calls at the icby store and me and one of the
00:43:56
other girls were receiving similar types of calls at our homes at our residence and she had even told them that there
00:44:04
was a situation where she thought that she was hearing some noises when she was working one
00:44:11
night and she thought that the noises were coming from the roof that's creepy she goes into the men's restroom
00:44:17
remember they got to clean up before they leave at night and she says later in the men's restroom of that icby store
00:44:24
that she found a ceiling tile that had been moved and on the toilet seat found Footprints or shoe prints on the
00:44:35
toilet scene that's a weird way to take a dump she's telling police that it's her opinion that the noises
00:44:42
that she heard was someone coming through the ceiling and dropping down into the
00:44:49
back part of their store her belief is that again this is like a strip Plaza it's her belief that you
00:44:58
could access the icby store via ceiling from the connecting stores this is something we we don't have to
00:45:07
put a lot of thought in it it's not a theory that we have to circle underline and go crazy about but it's something to
00:45:13
consider and it's an interesting piece of this investigation and it's interesting information that was passed
00:45:21
along to the detectives yeah my gut feeling is there's a lot more to this not not only are they getting
00:45:27
threatening calls at work but the individuals that are making those threatening calls to the two girls then
00:45:34
figure out where they live and they start making calls to their house that lead those things should be taken
00:45:41
very serious interestingly enough here Captain one thing that I find completely fascinating and I think that we sit here
00:45:49
and probably share the same belief today 30 years later is the prevailing theory in the Austin
00:45:57
yogurt shop murders case and that prevailing Theory seems to be that whomever those two men were sitting at
00:46:04
that booth at 10 47 PM that night they most likely are the attackers in The Killers now I
00:46:12
say most likely because we can't say it definitively what we do know is this that it took several months which is
00:46:19
kind of weird to me but it took several months for customers to come forward and
00:46:24
say hey I was this person I purchased this that night and I was in there about this time and this is what I think that
00:46:30
I saw or heard while I was there it did take a you know weeks and months to collect all those people and police
00:46:37
were actively reminding the public hey we need you to come in here and tell us we it's very important this is their
00:46:44
words quote it's very important that they come forward we consider any knowledge from anyone who was in that
00:46:50
shop before closing to be very valuable police ask anyone with information to call and they give their local police
00:46:58
number but when we talk about these two individuals sitting at that Booth it's my understanding captain that those are
00:47:05
the only two individuals that have never come forward these are the only two people that we know to have been in the
00:47:10
store that night based off of customer testimonials that have not been identified right it could be and it is
00:47:18
possible that these two individuals were from out of town they were just there like every other customer with no
00:47:25
harmful intentions at all and they left before the store closed and they're not from the area and months went by and
00:47:34
they they just never came forward or didn't do not remember being there on the night that was in question that is a
00:47:40
possibility I think it's awfully slim but it certainly is a possibility if we rule that out then we have to say these
00:47:48
are these two are probably the killers and again I think it's more likely that it's two killers and not just oh we're
00:47:55
going to be in the store with the potential of being seen by other individuals and then once they lock the doors we're
00:48:03
going to then open the back door open up the front door to let another person in
00:48:08
the only people ever convicted in this case were the two individuals that eventually
00:48:16
were released from prison and they were convicted based off of their confessions
00:48:20
and we could go through that but I don't think that we should because you can listen to episodes 81 and 82 where we go
00:48:26
through that muckenmeyer quite a bit at the end Captain what we have is of the four boys that were arrested two
00:48:35
convicted the guns did not match right it was a 22 caliber gun that led them that led Austin PD to these boys
00:48:45
their 22 caliber gun they ran ballistics on it it does not match up with the 22 that was used at the yogurt shot murder
00:48:52
so the guns didn't match and the DNA didn't match years after the murders Advanced DNA testing revealed a
00:48:59
bombshell the bombshell that that nobody wanted we were happy when two people were locked up for this case but those
00:49:06
results showed that DNA that was found on Amy Ayers did not match any of the suspects and to be clear
00:49:15
it didn't match anyone in any National Database so yeah the two that were convicted
00:49:21
the DNA that was found on our victim does not match the two that was convicted it also does not match the two
00:49:28
that weren't convicted the two that were arrested and the charges were dropped right by the grand jury because they
00:49:34
didn't believe that they had enough evidence here so but also with such a horrible crime
00:49:41
like this is truly done by demons how many it's surprising to me how many confessions they have got
00:49:51
yes and you know Austin Police they readily admit that over 50 people approximately over 50 people was passing
00:50:00
yeah have confessed to this now I want to address something real quick here if you look at Wikipedia there's an entry
00:50:09
that says that one of the confessions included Kenneth McDuff who's an individual that we covered extensively
00:50:15
in episodes 81 and 82. he's a serial killer there's no question about that here's where the question comes
00:50:22
according to that Wikipedia entry Kenneth McDuff on the day of his execution confessed to the yogurt shop
00:50:29
murders I've looked High and was left dry my friend could not find any credible publication or person stating
00:50:42
that they heard him or right heard the confession heard this confession yes he did have some some last words but they
00:50:50
did not include anything about this case or what I could find any other case now
00:50:55
he's certainly capable of committing such horrific acts but again review episodes 81 and 82 we go into why we
00:51:04
don't believe that he is our guy so then the question becomes FBI has this DNA why aren't they releasing it I mean they
00:51:14
do they just not have a match does it match somebody with a high profile is it does it match somebody that they have no
00:51:22
evidence against other than this this DNA match wouldn't that be enough well I'm glad that you brought that up
00:51:28
because let's review that real quickly here again in 2017 another potential breakthrough emerged
00:51:35
an Austin detective submitted DNA evidence found in one of the victims into a database that searches why Str
00:51:43
DNA samples a type of DNA profile that forensic investigators use to identify male relatives of suspects
00:51:53
a match was found the Austin Police Department requested more information about the identity of the matching donor
00:52:00
but the FBI has refused to release any information saying a federal statute so it's the federal statute that
00:52:10
prohibits it from disclosing identities of anonymous donors so I want to know more about what is an anonymous
00:52:20
donor right and I want I want to learn the ins and outs of that right despite these hurdles the families have
00:52:27
continued to work to keep the case in the Forefront their efforts have led to new crime fighting initiatives at the
00:52:33
state and federal levels again citing that same article according to that article that we cited at the top
00:52:41
of yesterday's show there are over 19 000 unsolved homicides in Texas Eliza Thomas Jennifer harveson Sarah
00:52:51
Harbison and Amy Ayers are four of those unsolved homicide cases when we talk about the yogurt shop case 30 years
00:53:00
later we need to make sure that we include some of the good stuff that happened in the story I'm talking about
00:53:07
the Austin Community and the friends of the four girls that made a promise to Eliza Jennifer Sarah and Amy and their
00:53:18
families and the promise was we will not forget on February 27th of 1992 just three
00:53:26
months after the murders local celebrities recorded a song titled we will not forget written by local
00:53:33
musicians and dedicated to the four slain girls all proceeds from the song were donated
00:53:39
to a fund that was set up to help solve the case on June 6th of 1992 six months after the
00:53:47
murders the classmates of the girls at the high school set up empty chairs for Eliza and Jennifer who would have
00:53:56
graduated on that day the great City of Austin Texas made a commitment to these four girls their families the community
00:54:04
and the persons responsible that they will not forget and in the garage we refuse to forget these girls as well now
00:54:14
it seems that the FBI has the power to help thousands of people heal even if it's just a little bit and I understand
00:54:22
that there are laws and regulations that are needed to protect the people but here those laws and regulations are
00:54:29
protecting the wrong people take a look at these crimes these are some of the most horrific and unspeakable acts that
00:54:36
we have ever discussed on this show and it's five years of existence and all of these horrific crimes and unspeakable
00:54:44
Acts were committed and no more than a short 45-minute time period the People Protected by these laws and regulations
00:54:52
are not people at all they are the very worst of what Humanity has to offer foreign
00:55:12
thanks for joining us here each and every week in the garage if you're digging the music for the show check it
00:55:19
out for free on Spotify Amazon music or apple music it's free so check it out Colonel do we have any recommended
00:55:27
reading for the listeners this week this week Captain we are recommending what I
00:55:32
believe is the definitive book on the case that we covered this week the yogurt shop murders and this book is
00:55:37
called who killed These Girls by Beverly Lowery and this book came out just shortly before the 25 year marker for
00:55:48
this case and covers the murders all the countless lives that this story has really ruined and the evolving
00:55:56
complications of the justice system that have frustrated the massive attempts for
00:56:01
all these years now to find and punish those who committed this horrible horrible Crime Check out who killed
00:56:08
These Girls by Beverly Lowry you can find that great title and and many more on our website truecrime garage.com and
00:56:15
click on the recommended page and until next week be good be kind and don't listen
00:56:30
[Music] foreign