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at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the farmers who work hard to put food on our
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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details
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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen hands down the illst vant triloquist
00:01:54
this side of the Mississippi River I give you the captain should have been a man who has such fat hands he can't fit
00:02:00
them up the dummy's ass it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for T of [Music] friend this week we are very excited to be featuring black Galaxy IPA by the
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good folks down at Beacon Brewing Company and beautiful lrange Georgia blast off into this Interstellar IPA
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don't be fooled by its hoptical illusion beneath the black abyss lies a roast character with pungent tropical fruit
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and musky Citrus garage grade four big bottle caps and let's give some praise to our friends who helped us out with
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this week's beer run first up a big cheers to Paula and lrange Georgia and a big shout out to Mitchell in Huntington
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West Virginia next a big cheers and Ron Swanson please and thank you to Jennifer
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V and Farmers Branch Texas and a big we like your drip to Charles be in Fort Worth Texas all right here's a long
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distance West Coast cheers to Mariah in Long Beach California and last but certainly not least we have a big thank
00:03:10
you to Ethan and Carla Morris out in warington Virginia everyone we just mention well they helped us out with
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this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah everybody's down with the LBC thanks for supporting the show for
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the BW beer run but if you'd like to support the show and get something in return
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check out our website True Crime garage.com and click on the store Page there's something for everyone and that
00:03:36
is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:46
[Music] crime what I heard was acid is groovy kill the pigs and I believe I heard that
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twice at first that was the first thing that I remember hearing but it's it's very jumbl because that's mixed up with
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my wife screaming Jeff help me and my daughter screaming she looks funny she looks
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[Music] dead she's saying acid is groovy kill the pigs acid and rain as in Rain she looks
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[Music] dead the following is an adaptation from the book American Justice great crimes
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and trials by Paul bag and Martin pho Dr Jeffrey McDonald was an Army captain in the prestigious Green Beret
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the crack special teams operation unit of the American Army trained for particularly hazardous
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roles McDonald was a good soldier he worked hard and graduated from Princeton University while still a student there
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he got married in 1963 Jeffrey completed his medical studies at Northwestern University in
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1969 1969 was the year of Charles Manson and his so-called family's arrest for the horrific murders of Sharon Tate and
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her house guest followed by those of Mr and Mrs Lanka so it was appalling to learn that
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in February of 1970 the hippies had struck again another household had been violated another family had been
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savagely DED to death their blood too had been used for crude graffiti 1970 the McDonald family of
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four was living at Fort Bragg a large military base in North Carolina the McDonald apartment was located at 544
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Castle Drive military police provided Security in the early morning hours of Tuesday February 17th Jeff McDonald
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calls the military police his voice was weak and croaky his message alarming and
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imprecise help 544 Castle Drive stabbing 544 Castle Drive stabbing hurry Duty police raced to the house on Castle
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Drive in the living room they found signs of a struggle in the main bedroom Dr Jeffrey McDonald and his wife Colette
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are found lying on the floor Colette is dead she was savagely battered and covered with
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blood on the wall the word Pig had been scrolled in her blood the couple's two daughters both lay dead in their bed
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bedrooms the murder weapons were found outside the back door McDonald was taken to the military hospital he had a severe
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stab to the chest which punctured a lung his story the family had gone to bed he
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reported except for him he stayed up reading and dozing off in his pajamas on the couch in the sitting room he awoke
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to find four hippies in the house three of them men the fourth was a woman Jeffrey struggled with them but they
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overpowered him and tied his hands before clubbing him over the head when he finally came around the house was
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cold and Silent the hippies were gone Jeffrey went upstairs to find blood stains on the floors and
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walls his whole family had been brutally massacred the military police were working under severe handicaps their
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normal employment does not involve solving serious crimes let alone the notoriously difficult stranger murders
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they can give experienced detectives serious problems the MPS are normally used to breaking up drunken brawls
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pursuing enlisted men who have gone awall and perhaps handling the odd case of pilfering they are usually enclosed
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Barracks too where guards on the gates mean all entries and exits have been checked and the whole Community can be
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sealed off for immediate investigation in a crisis but Fort Brag was an open base the public had the to enter and
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pass through parts of it it was not possible to close everything down at once and hope the hippies would be
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caught in a trap this is true crime garage I just screamed uh acid as groovy kill the pigs hit him
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again and he was crying and said we did it he said they didn't mean to kill anybody but said things just went
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mad she looks Dead all right Captain we are going to dive right into this week's timeline and
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we're going to start with the McDonald family timeline leading up to the day in question because there is a lot to cover
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here in our two fantastic episodes here in the garage in 1943 both Colette Catherine Stevenson
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and Jeffrey McDonald were born Colette's father Edward passes away in 1954 in 1956 Colette's mother Mildred starts
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dating a man named Freddy cassab these will all be major players in this week's case in
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1963 Jeffrey and Colette are married Jeffrey is still a student at Princeton University at this time a little
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backstory here captain they grew up in the same area went to the same High School Jeffrey McDonald and Colette
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Stevenson are kids that grew up together went to school together they dated on and off in high school in fact they were
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a bit of high school sweethearts yeah but there were some time periods where they were not together in a relationship
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but they start seeing each other again at college and while Jeffrey still in college they get married in
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1963 this is because Colette is already pregnant with jeffy's child so in 1964 their first daughter is born her name is
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Kimberly Katherine McDonald the McDonald's then mov to Chicago where Jeff starts medical school at
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Northwestern University just 3 years after their first daughter in 1967 their second daughter is born this is Kristen
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Jean McDonald now 1969 Captain is going to be a very busy year for Jeffrey and the McDonald family this is because
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Jeffrey joins the US Army so first Jeff reports to Fort Sam Houston Army Medical
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in San Antonio for 6 weeks then he is off to Fort Benning in Georgia for 3 weeks of paratrooper training then
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Jeffrey McDonald was sent to Fort Bragg in North Carolina he is assigned to the Green Beret as a surgeon for the Special
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Forces Group one thing that will come into question later as we're going through the case itself the
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investigation in the actual murders is Jeffrey McDonald's army training Green Berets are a Special Forces Unit they're
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able to handle very difficult situations most of the time they are trained in martial arts and hand-to-hand combat and
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all kinds of different tactical strategic fighting moves that fool but we have Jeffrey McDonald here who is
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sent to the green Braes as a surgeon so he is not trained the same way that they
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would train these typical ground troops normally they have some kind of boot camp and some initial training but
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specialty soldiers they're going to go through a different training after the initial training correct he receives
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this boot camp type training he receives this paratrooper training which is kind
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of above and beyond anyway he never gets into the martial arts or any of that because it's understood that it's very
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unlikely as a surgeon that he will actually see any real Combat yeah I mean if you ever watched the show MASH it
00:12:39
wasn't like they were K Fu Fighting right only if you were absolutely forced into some very difficult situation yeah
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but that's when you just yell I don't know karate but I know crazy that same year shortly after
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arriving at Fort Brag Jeffrey and the McDonald family of four move into to the apartment on base in officer's housing
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this is the 544 or 544 Castle Drive residence this takes place in 1970 so the setup here is we have a
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family of four the victims are going to be the wife and the two daughters the only sole survivor will be the husband
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and of course the wife and daughters are killed either late on February 16th or very early on February 17th the
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following will be Jeffrey McDonald's account of the events leading up to that and what took place during the attack
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brought on by these Intruders starting with Saturday February 14th Lieutenant Ronald Harrison made a visit to the
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McDonald residents this would be in the evening hours during the visit Harrison and McDonald discussed the Sharon Tate
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murder yeah that's from the Charles Manson case the conversation comes about because Harrison spotted an issue of
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Esquire magazine sitting on the coffee table on the cover of the magazine was quote Lee Marvin is afraid evil lurks in
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California Harrison picked up the magazine looked at it and McDonald basically told him the issue was a
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mustre Harrison flipped through the magazine while McDonald told him about the Articles inside McDonald said that
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there were articles about the bar tape murder and a cult in California yeah that'd be the Charles Manson cult the
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two had a 5minute conversation that mostly included joking but also discussed in a serious manner the witch
00:14:43
the sorcerer the Black Swan and the acid goddess these are all from articles in this particular magazine they both
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agreed it was unbelievable what was happening in California they went on to discuss drugs and people who who take
00:14:59
drugs McDonald says from what I've read and medically speaking that marijuana isn't so bad but the harder stuff he had
00:15:08
some serious concerns with so we're setting it up in this manner because this is an important part of his account
00:15:17
because what happened was just the year before was the Sharon Tate and Mr and Mrs lanca murders right Charles Manson
00:15:26
and Manson's family killing people invading homes in California and this now we're in early
00:15:35
1970 the trials hadn't even started for Manson and his followers yet this is big
00:15:42
big news and of course this is something that McDonald's discussing with his friend The Conversation Piece was the
00:15:50
magazine itself but this is also a topic of discussion in homes around America at
00:15:56
the time because what went down and California was just so heinous and so unbelievable yeah it's one of the big
00:16:03
bang moments it's like everybody knows where they were at when Kennedy was shot everybody remembers hearing about the
00:16:11
Manson Murders everybody knows where they're at on 911 is one of the big bang moments this will lead us to Sunday the
00:16:20
15th on Sunday February 15th McDonald went to work at the hospital in Hamlet North Carolina he reports nothing un
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usual happening that day he says that he treated a small number of patients and worked all day long now to be clear
00:16:36
Captain this is a 24hour shift that he worked from Sunday at 6:00 a.m. to Monday at 6 a.m.
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probably too long for a surgeon to be working steady the hands my friend yeah I mean I don't want to be the guy that
00:16:51
goes into surgery on the 22nd hour right I don't think he's performing surgeries
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I don't know exactly what he's doing is a surgeon what else is he supposed to be
00:17:00
doing shining shoes well he says that he took two naps while on shift and says that he slept for approximately 5 and a
00:17:06
half hours total that day and he went on to say that that would be about what he
00:17:13
would sleep on a normal night at home on Monday February 16th and I want everybody to pay really
00:17:22
really close attention to everything that is said here take some notes if you're able to after only if you're
00:17:29
driving his shift McDonald went back to his home at the base and had breakfast with Colette and the kids it sounds like
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he may have taken a nap or slept at some point during the daytime on that Monday
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at 4:45 p.m. McDonald and his two daughters leave the house to go see the horse that
00:17:51
he bought for the family for Christmas mhm the pasture is about 5 mil from their house what's the horse's name you
00:18:00
know what I I did know this at one point I didn't put the whole story we'll call
00:18:06
him Rusty I think I think you can actually easily find the horse's name but I I can't recall what it is at this
00:18:12
point at 5:00 p.m. McDonald's daughters ride and feed the horse and then they return to the home arriving around 5:30
00:18:21
to 5:40 p.m. the McDonald family of they sit down to dinner together for a short
00:18:27
dinner at 6:10 p.m. his wife Colette left the house for an evening class at the University of North Carolina this
00:18:36
was a extension school that was located on the military base Colette was taking child psychology courses at that time we
00:18:47
should point out some some things here about the family and Colette and Jeffrey before we move on too far Jeffrey
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McDonald he's a doctor he's a surgeon but he's in I mean he's incredibly smart of course doctors and surgeons are
00:19:02
incredibly smart anyway but we're talking about schooling at Princeton in Northwestern University where he
00:19:09
graduated near the top of his class right and people that knew these individuals very well would tell you
00:19:16
that Not only was Jeffrey McDonald incredibly intelligent but Colette might have been smarter than than Jeffrey and
00:19:25
probably so her life is a little bit on because she's staying at home and raising their two children but we see
00:19:33
here when he's at home when he's able to be home between these long shifts she's
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able to go and continue her education McDonald said that after Colette left that he cleaned up dinner and played
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with the kids for a while his daughter Kristen went to bed between 7 and 7:30 p.m. these are very young children
00:19:52
Kimberly stayed up watching TV McDonald said he fell asleep on the living room floor which was pretty common Kimberly
00:20:01
woke him up around 8:00 p.m. and he knows this to be accurate as far as the time goes because he says that Kimberly
00:20:10
and him always watched a show called laughing together it was Kimberly's favorite TV show so she woke him up so
00:20:18
they could watch the TV show together at 8:00 p.m. and then after the show he says he put Kimberly to bed in her
00:20:26
bedroom at 9900 p.m. McDonald returned to the living room to watch the Bob Hope special that was on that night right at
00:20:34
9:40 p.m. kette returned home and at that time she changed into her PJs joined McDonald in the living room where
00:20:43
they watch TV together McDonald would say that because they had two children because he worked so much because
00:20:51
Colette is continuing her education they had very little time to spend just one on one the two of them so it was very
00:21:01
common that late night they would spend an hour or two together either watching TV listening to records or reading or
00:21:08
just talking about their day that was kind of their time once the kids were put to bed and once all the busyness
00:21:17
hustle and bustle of the day-to-day life was done M he says that Colette went to
00:21:22
bed around midnight McDonald says he may have dozed off but spent some time reading reading a book and watching
00:21:29
Johnny Carson at the same time here's Johnny at 1:00 a.m. he shut off the TV and continued reading his book at 1:30
00:21:38
a.m. Jeffrey McDonald says he went to bed and he noticed that dishes were not done so he decided all right I'm not
00:21:48
going to bed just yet I'm going to take care of these dishes so he washes the dishes and straightens up the kitchen a
00:21:54
little bit he says this is to you know earn some points with with his wife yeah some brownie points yeah you don't don't
00:22:01
want to upset mom or the wife by not cleaning up the dinner that he probably promised to clean up McDonald says that
00:22:09
sometime during the last hour that he was up that night that Christy got out of bed and went into the master bedroom
00:22:17
and fell asleep next to Colette her mother so when he goes in to go to bed he found her in the bed on his side of
00:22:26
the bed right she had WEP the bed and there was a large wet spot on his half of the bed great yeah long day just did
00:22:35
the dishes go you you almost fell asleep on the couch but now it's time to go to
00:22:40
bed one you see your daughter there so you're like oh great I got to move her oh no she peed she peed the bed and
00:22:49
she's two so this is fairly common that she would get up sometime in the middle of the night and creep in and go sleep
00:22:56
with Mom and Dad in there bad it's still one of those moments where you're like can I freaking just win one right let me
00:23:03
win one today could have slept easier at the hospital yeah so he says he picked up Christie carried her back to her
00:23:11
bedroom placed her in her bed then he gives her a bottle now he decides rather than he's not going to go sleep in the
00:23:19
wet spot nobody wants to sleep in the wet spot regardless of how it got wet so he decides you know what rather than
00:23:27
waking up my wife changing the sheets you know fixing everything up she's fine she's sleeping her half of the bed is is
00:23:35
fine he decides it will be easier if I just go and sleep on the couch for the night go sleep on the couch in the
00:23:43
living room wake up take care of it in the morning right right he says at that time when he goes to bed when he goes to
00:23:50
go to sleep on the couch he remembers specifically that the only lights on in the house where a kitchen ceiling light
00:23:59
and the main bathroom light McDonald says he fell asleep within a matter of 3 to four minutes he says he never had
00:24:09
trouble falling asleep some of us do he never had any trouble falling asleep it seems like very likely because he's
00:24:16
tired from doing so much all of the time yeah McDonald says that the next thing that he is aware of he's awakened by a
00:24:25
scream coming from his wife he hears his wife screaming he's in the living room and he says the living room
00:24:33
when he wakes up to hearing this screaming it's mainly darkness in that room he describes this as a very loud
00:24:41
scream and he said it was definitely Colette's voice he says quote things all happened at once he says I was sitting
00:24:50
up I was hearing this very piercing scream then she said quote meaning Colette quote quot help Jeff why are
00:24:59
they doing this to me there were people at the foot of my couch he says in the living room these people are three males
00:25:10
and he says then I saw a female behind the three males so I saw a total of four people so four people is all that he
00:25:21
ever says that he saw during this entire event says I heard Kimberly scre scaming
00:25:28
at the same time and I started to get up and said either what's going on or what
00:25:33
the hell's going on or what's going on here okay so let's paint this picture a little bit better those are his words
00:25:42
I'm going to give you the Colonel's words picture this he says he wakes up in near Darkness he's hearing his wife
00:25:50
scream Jeff why are they doing this to me notices three males standing at the foot of his couch he's in the living
00:25:57
living room Colette's in the bedroom master bedroom he notices a woman standing behind the three males and then
00:26:03
he's hearing his daughter scream now at the same he says at the same time so I'm
00:26:09
going all right same time either all three of these things are happening at the same time wife screams notices the
00:26:17
people daughter screams or his words would indicate that the he hears his daughter screaming at the same time as
00:26:25
some other event meaning either his wife screaming or at the same time that he notices these people in the living room
00:26:33
with him he says what's going on what the hell's going on he doesn't remember exactly what he says to these people
00:26:40
when he sees them now Jeffrey says there were two men at the foot of the couch and the third man was between the couch
00:26:47
and the coffee table they were all facing him he says he saw a woman behind the two men at the foot of the couch he
00:26:55
goes on to say all I really saw was that it appeared to be a girl with long blonde hair and a big floppy hat I
00:27:04
had the impression that she was holding quote like a candle in her hands he says
00:27:12
this because mainly there was sort of a light on her face he does go on to say that it could have been a flashlight he
00:27:21
says there was a light coming from the kitchen and the hallway there is enough light to see the
00:27:28
figures of these people the silhouette of these people but not so much enough to see details of these people well to
00:27:37
be clear the McDonald's house it it's connected to other houses correct yes it's it's an apartment on base so it's
00:27:45
on base officer housing and yes they share walls with other officers in their fam and it's pretty large I I'd almost
00:27:54
say that it's almost seems like houses that are connected as opposed to what we would assume as Apartments connected it
00:28:02
really seems like a pretty large space the building itself no I'm saying the individual units that are connected you
00:28:10
can go online and see diagrams that people have made 3D diagrams uh if you want to dive in just to the the
00:28:20
structure and the layout of the house yeah I don't know the square footage of of the apartment itself but it's kind of
00:28:28
that's what I'm looking for now the the easy way to describe it would be long it's
00:28:33
rectangular and for my understanding Captain the living room that he's in and the if you want to call it the upstairs
00:28:41
level or the bedrooms is really only separated by a step or two if this diagram is correct
00:28:48
it looks like the front of the house is roughly 52 ft and the depth of the house
00:28:55
is roughly I'd say 28 to 30 ft okay he goes on to tell us that two of the three men were
00:29:04
white and one of the males was black he says that the black man was wearing an army fatigue jacket he says that he
00:29:12
started approaching me he raised something over his head and swung it down towards me I started to fall back
00:29:20
and I put my arm up to fend it off this attack he's trying to fend off then he hit me on the forehead at which time I
00:29:30
literally saw Stars I was knocked backwards onto the couch I was becoming more confused I struggled back to a
00:29:40
sitting position and he raised the club up again and started swinging it down I sort of fended it off he says I grabbed
00:29:50
his arm and slid down onto the club so I was holding the club with my hands at this time I saw sergeant stripes on his
00:30:04
sleeve so he's saying one of the attackers the black male is wearing an army fatigue jacket and it's this man
00:30:12
who is striking him with something in the forehead and during the scuffle with this guy he
00:30:20
notices sergeant stripes on the army fatigue jacket while this was occurring he says that the girl he's referring to
00:30:28
this this is a grown woman but he keeps saying girl while this was occurring the
00:30:32
girl was saying quote acid is groovy and kill the pigs someone said once or twice
00:30:39
hit him again it may have been the girl that said this Jeffrey McDonald says I'm
00:30:44
not sure yeah well Jeffrey's given us a lot of details but it seems like he's also questioning the details as he's
00:30:50
giving them he goes on to say I was holding on to the club at which time the struggle became more confusing
00:30:58
I'm guessing this is because he's been struck in the head with this club but then I developed a terrific pain in my
00:31:04
chest my right chest I assumed I was being punched I thought I had been punched in the chest really really hard
00:31:13
maybe the wind was knocked out of me I let go of the club and I began grappling with the other two men at this time my
00:31:21
shirt so McDonald is wearing his pajamas he's wearing pajama uh pants and a button-up long sleeve pajama top he says
00:31:32
at this time my shirt was either pulled over my head or it was ripped I have the
00:31:38
feeling it was ripped because I don't remember something being pulled over my head in any case my shirt ended up
00:31:45
wrapped around my forearms and partially around my hand I'm still struggling with
00:31:51
these guys I had the impression that one of the white guys that I was struggling
00:31:56
with was was wearing gloves I hit one of the men not sure who in the face in the
00:32:03
face I grabbed one of the men and I was holding on to his hand I looked and I saw a blade in his hand and I realized
00:32:11
at this point I was being stabbed I was not being punched I never really got on My Feet Again the long sleeve pajama top
00:32:20
was still on my arms the so it was he says in my way so he was using it as like a buffer right they're trying to
00:32:31
strike him or stab him or hit him with things and he's got this pajama toop that's now wrapped around his forearms
00:32:37
and hand and he's kind of using it as almost a shield he goes on to say at this point I was aware of being hit on
00:32:45
the left shoulder and head and I started falling I sort of fell towards the stairs at the end of the couch is the
00:32:52
hallway it comes out right there and the hallway is too stairs up from the living
00:32:58
room I just sort of fell that way and then I saw right in front of me a knee in the top of a boot I was under the
00:33:06
impression that it was a female that I was looking at I saw a knee in the top of a boot and I had the impression of
00:33:13
the boot being wet that is the last thing I saw before I woke up [Music] at Crystal Farms we're thankful for the
00:33:36
farmers who work hard to put food on our tables and for the families who make crystal Farms a part of their holiday
00:33:42
traditions we're thankful to be the shredded cheddar in your legendary baked mac and cheese and to top your pecan pie
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with entirely too much whipped cream this year Crystal Farms is giving thanks to both sides of the table by offering
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savings on holiday Essentials and by sourcing our cheese from Family Farms across the Heartland learn more at
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00:35:47
mates cheers to you Colonel Hallelujah to the people in the back cheers to all you snow covered Critters out there
00:35:55
let's continue on captain with Jeffrey McDonald's account of what went down that night okay when we left off he says
00:36:03
that he's been knocked out basically you know they he's been attacked and then this is the last thing I remember was
00:36:10
seeing a wet boot who he believed belonged to the woman that he spotted in the living room before he blacks out or
00:36:18
goes unconscious yeah at this point he thinks he was hit in the head multiple times by multiple individuals and also
00:36:26
possibly stabbed he goes on to say that the first recollection that he had when he woke up was that I was on my stomach
00:36:34
on the hallway floor and my arms were still wrapped in this pajama top my teeth were chattering and I thought I
00:36:42
was going into shock I got up at which time I was dizzy and confused I had a pain in my chest and it was hard to
00:36:51
breathe so I went down to our master bedroom I probably turned on the light lights my wife was lying off of the bed
00:36:59
and on the floor her feet were toward the hallway her head was toward the bed she was sort of next to the bed
00:37:07
partially leaning against the Green easy chair that is next to the bed she didn't
00:37:12
look good at all she looked very bad there was a knife sticking out of her chest and as I was coming into the room
00:37:21
I started taking off this top he's referring to his pajama shirt right so my hands were free and when I saw the
00:37:30
knife I pulled it out of her chest and sort of tossed the knife well pulling a knife from somebody's chest might be a
00:37:37
very awkward or maybe uncommon thing I think for a normal victim but we do know that he's a surgeon so maybe that is the
00:37:46
reason why he did so he goes on to say that I then tried to give her and this is his words artificial breathing
00:37:55
simulation so maybe that's very doctor speak I don't know but CPR well not CPR he's simply giving her mouth to- mouth
00:38:03
resuscitation at that time but he says that the air bubbles the air bubbles were coming out of her chest and neck
00:38:10
when he's trying to breathe for her think about that when you're eating your lunch yeah he says that it's then
00:38:17
that he realized that he the fact the sad fact that he would not be able to revive her he said that there was no way
00:38:26
that she could sustain her own breathing he's a surgeon so he's going to act a little differently I think than most
00:38:34
people he says he then stopped doing the mouth to mouth and he says I didn't know
00:38:38
what to do so I covered her chest with my pajama top under the theory that if she's not dead she's at least in deep
00:38:47
shock and you go over and Elevate their legs and lie them flat he says I don't know if it was now or later that I
00:38:58
checked her pulse but at this point I realized that I had heard Kimberly yelling also so what I think he means
00:39:07
here Captain is that he remembered hearing Kimberly yelling before he was knocked out not that she's yelling at
00:39:13
this exact moment yeah cuz he reported hearing his wife yell and also possibly one of his children yell now he's
00:39:22
remembering that so he says I got up again and it was getting harder for him to breathe at this time he says I went
00:39:29
down the hallway into Kimberly's room Kimberly was in her bed on the right side of the bed I saw what I thought
00:39:37
were stab wounds I didn't notice any other wound I just saw a lot of blood I don't know if it was now or later I
00:39:46
tried to give artificial respiration I think I checked her pulse I turned around went out of the bedroom and into
00:39:55
the other bedroom this would be the other little girl's bedroom I found Christy lying in her bed she had a lot
00:40:03
of blood on her I checked her pulse and remembered trying to breathe and give her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and the
00:40:11
same thing happened that happened with this okay he's giving this these statements in an interview and this is
00:40:21
his recollection not with police right this is an interview that's not being conducted by police so he's starting to
00:40:31
say I believe that that the same thing happened when he gave mouth to mouth to his wife and seeing the air
00:40:40
bubbles coming from the chest in the neck right I'm kind of guessing here because he says the same thing happened
00:40:46
that happened with and then the notes state that the interview stopped for about 10 minutes because they needed
00:40:54
Jeffrey McDonald to you know regain his composure to carry on with the actual interview we don't get him to finish
00:41:02
that sentence when the interview picks up he says I ran into the hallway and I just stood there not knowing what to do
00:41:09
I noticed blood on my hand so I went to the master bathroom rinsed my hands off and dried my hands off with some toilet
00:41:19
paper or something and dropped it either on the toilet or onto the floor I remember coming back into the master
00:41:27
bedroom so I was back to Colette his wife I checked her cored pulse I took away my pajama top and looked at her
00:41:36
chest wounds again and at this time I kind of knew all of this probably occurred in just a matter of a few
00:41:44
minutes it was getting very hard for me to breathe my head was really hurting and I was getting dizzy and I just
00:41:52
didn't know what to do there is a phone in the bedroom so I went over to the phone picked up the phone and I dialed
00:42:00
zero the operator came on and I said something to the effect like this is Captain McDonald or Dr McDonald I'm at
00:42:09
544 Castle Drive and there has been some people stabbed and we need ambulances doctors and MPS and she said referring
00:42:18
to the operator is it on poost or off-post meaning where he's calling from and Dr McDonald says I said whatat the
00:42:28
hell are you talking about she repeated is this on post or off-post Dr McDonald said for Christ's sake what difference
00:42:36
does that make she said well if it's on post it's an MP matter military police matter I said it is on post she said
00:42:45
well you have to contact the military police and with that he says I just laid down the phone or dropped the phone he
00:42:53
says I went back to Kimberly and I went back to Christie checked them for pulses
00:42:58
and possibly gave them mouth to mouth again that part's a little confusing to me Captain because it seems to me like
00:43:05
he's already decided there's nothing more he could do for at least two of these three victims I don't want to
00:43:11
bring up too many things that I find suspicious because that's something that we're going to be going over but the
00:43:17
fact that he he does all these things and checks on so many people before he tries to call for help is definitely
00:43:24
something that I think needs to be noted he goes on to say that he didn't get any
00:43:29
pulses and again he says he finds himself standing in the hallway saying to himself what's going to happen he
00:43:37
says that he then went to the kitchen there's there's another phone in the kitchen area he says I went to the
00:43:43
kitchen phone through the dining room picked up the phone and the operator was already on the line she had never broken
00:43:51
the connection he says I said this is Captain McDonald Donal at 544 Castle Drive just a minute I'll connect you to
00:44:01
the MPS there apparently that's what she's saying to him M he says that he heard some dial tones and clicks and
00:44:09
then a military police officer came on the line and said can I help you McDonald says I said people have been
00:44:17
stabbed and I asked repeatedly for an MP for doctors and ambulances I told them I'm at 544 Castle
00:44:27
Drive he said they're on their way McDonald says again he dropped the phone at this time he says I'm all covered in
00:44:36
blood from the kids and from Colette I rinsed off in the sink I started out of the kitchen and
00:44:45
that's really the last thing I remember the next thing I remember so he's blacking out again the next thing I
00:44:52
remember I was being given mouth to mouth by an MP officer when I was awakened I was right next to my wife on
00:45:01
the floor in the master bedroom I remember there's people all around me and all I could see was the MP shiny
00:45:11
helmets I saw this circle of people and they were all talking yelling and screaming put that down don't touch her
00:45:19
they put me on a stretcher I kept asking about my kids everyone kept telling me everyone's okay they took me to a
00:45:29
hospital where they were treating me he said everyone during the treatment process kept telling him to calm down
00:45:38
that everyone's okay but finally a doctor came into check on him and he says it was a doctor that he knew and
00:45:45
had worked with at one point and he said I kept asking him over and over how are
00:45:50
they he said no one's told you I said no he said they're all dead he paused and said I'm sorry to tell you yeah McDonald
00:46:01
says I was crying for a while then the doctor came back in and asked what he could do and McDonald said call my
00:46:09
mother and call my in-laws and have them come right away but don't tell them what
00:46:15
happened but question for you cuz the the the initial 911 call talking to the operator putting the phone down going to
00:46:23
the hallway coming back talking to the operator Ator putting the phone down again does that remind you of any case
00:46:30
that we've covered H it reminds me a lot of the the Scott Peterson the the staircase murders that's right where the
00:46:39
911 call where it seems like he's panicking but then he's backing away from the call then getting back on the
00:46:47
call Oddly enough another military man as well yeah now according to just general knowledge this is all agreed
00:46:57
upon by all parties involved on February 17th at 3:42 a.m. you know because we do
00:47:05
not have McDonald filling Us in with any exact times here when all of this is taking place right so at 3:42 a.m.
00:47:13
dispatchers at Fort Brag were notified by a chief operator of the Carolina telephone company regarding a call for
00:47:22
help that they received the operator patched the call through to to Fort Brag where Jeffrey McDonald reported that
00:47:29
quote some people had been stabbed at his residence and that he needed MPS and Medics and ambulances when the MP and
00:47:38
Medics arrived McDonald was found on the master bedroom floor lying partially on
00:47:43
his stomach with one of his arms across Colette's upper body McDonald tells mpes
00:47:50
and Medics that he and his family were attacked by four hippies and we'll Circle back to that real quickly
00:47:56
McDonald is then transferred to Cape Fear Hospital for treatment Colette Kimberly and Kristen are all pronounced
00:48:04
dead they are transferred to the morg at Cape Fear Hospital it's interesting how
00:48:10
many cases are similar but this one is kind of amalgamation of multiple cases U one the Chris Watts case the Scott
00:48:19
Peterson case and and then you mix in the Sam Shepard case and now you have the Jeffrey McDonald case so some things
00:48:27
real quick that I want to touch on in his account that might clear some things up it might just muddy the waters even
00:48:33
more I don't know but as the captain said we're going to go through this in a very compartmentalized way but I wanted
00:48:41
to touch on some of these things before we simply forget to get to them so he says the very basic General description
00:48:49
that's in the papers and put out to everybody immediately is that this Jeffrey McDonald this respected doctor
00:48:56
this respected Green Beret member of the army he says that we are attacked by four hippies there's some pretty major
00:49:06
dispute going on if that was in fact what he said because people th this case is one of the most debated cases I think
00:49:17
to to to date I mean it's up there with any of the other ones that you hear people that that start off having very
00:49:25
intelligent discussion that heightens to yelling and screaming matches because people are so
00:49:32
decided one way or the other did Jeffrey McDonald kill his family or did this group of four hippies kill his family
00:49:40
like he says yeah some people would say it's so debatable that to debate it itself you'd have to be a master
00:49:47
debater well one of the very first things that comes into question is he gives a description of the attackers
00:49:56
and people are saying well he's calling them hippies yet one of them had on an army fatigue jacket to which he says he
00:50:04
noticed sergeant stripes yeah but that look we've all seen Forest Gump right when he goes to the capital and he and
00:50:12
they have the protesters they have the hippies protes in Vietnam and he gets mixed up in them there's a lot of
00:50:18
so-called you know quote unquote hippies and what were they wearing they're wearing Army fatigues it was very
00:50:25
fashionable in the mid-60s to to Mid '70s well and I think the description of hippie sometimes can be open to
00:50:36
interpretation a little bit yeah or go go see a bunch of footage of John Lenin performing and he's constantly wearing
00:50:43
what Army fatigues and he's he was the definition the the biggest icon of the hippie movement well in what McDonald
00:50:50
would later say is I never said the word hippies I never said it was for Hipp hippies I simply described the four
00:50:57
people that I saw right and somebody from the Army or somebody from the newspaper changed it to a very general
00:51:04
description of four hippies now I can kind of believe that because we've been doing this long enough Captain I've seen
00:51:11
things get skewed in the news and in the papers because it sells copies we've talked about it many times it gets
00:51:18
clicks on the internet obviously that's not a concern Back in 1970 but it also gets people talking and it gets people
00:51:25
tuning into the news what would have been on everyone's Minds is what we just talked about earlier the Manson family
00:51:32
yeah Sharon Tate yeah the crazy hippies that that broke into homes and and murdered everybody inside and and wrote
00:51:38
things on the walls yeah and I I bet if you look back at what of whatever articles were written about the Manson
00:51:46
family and these quote unquote so-called hippies if that was lingo that was used
00:51:51
in those reports that's why that lingo was used and this case now very interestingly though we have a similar
00:52:00
situation here at the McDonald home after the attack so all four of the people are attacked inside the home
00:52:08
three of them are left dead and on the wall in the bedroom I apologize not on the wall it was on the headboard to the
00:52:16
the bed in the master bedroom somebody wrote the word Pig in blood right which is with Colette's blood we would later
00:52:25
figure out yeah which is something that was rumored I don't think it was confirmed in the the Manson Murders but
00:52:33
supposedly there was the words Pig ridden in Blood and those murders as well well yeah and that that definitely
00:52:40
happened in both of those well I'm just saying at the time of this murder since the trial didn't happen I just wonder if
00:52:49
that was actually confirmed you see what I'm saying yeah and this we should be clear here we already pointed out that
00:52:56
this account that he's given is an account that he is given to a person conducting an interview a reporter this
00:53:04
is not his words to the MPS when he's interviewed right after the attack although he would tell us that this is
00:53:13
the same thing that he told the military police right I've seen that version it is very similar but the things that that
00:53:20
are a little wonky again the word hippies he says he never used the word hippies mhm and second it's very quickly
00:53:28
pointed out to McDonald during the investigation that the triple homicide investigation that are you sure that
00:53:36
this woman was holding a candle mhm and in his initial statement he does say candle I believe she was holding a
00:53:44
candle because I saw some kind of flickering glowing light on her face they say you know we didn't find any
00:53:51
evidence of of wax of candle wax in the living room right but because she was holding a candle doesn't mean that
00:53:59
they're going to find wax on the floor well and this is what's interesting he may have been altering his statement to
00:54:06
play along with what they were finding or not finding at the scene because in this interview he's saying it may have
00:54:12
been a flashlight I don't know I didn't see a candle I didn't see a flashlight I
00:54:17
simply saw the light shining up on her face yes and it could be multiple things it could be uh a candle it could be a
00:54:25
flashlight it could be a knife that was somehow reflecting light onto her face as said McDonald's mother is called and
00:54:34
his in-laws are called they obviously rush to Fort Brag and unfortunately there's going to be funeral services
00:54:43
held for three on February 21st a little background story though to talk about Freddy and Mildred cassab so this is his
00:54:55
in-laws right Colette's father died when she was very young and Freddy cassab married her mother when Colette was
00:55:04
still pretty young and remember we said that these two had a relationship in high school they were friends boyfriend
00:55:11
girlfriend that sort of thing on and off the cassabs Freddy and Mildred knew Jeffrey well well before the two ever
00:55:21
got married and this Freddy cassab I look him up sometime or if you read up want to read further on this case you'll
00:55:28
find the same thing I believe you'll find the same thing that I thought this guy is he's a very likable guy but he's
00:55:36
also very personable he seems to be very personable with everybody and what I mean is that he treated Mildred's
00:55:45
daughters and and her children as if they were his own and he he raised they loved him dearly and Freddy cassab loved
00:55:54
Jeffrey McDonald dearly and immediately after this this was a weird case because
00:56:02
they're going to go and look for these whatever you want to call them four hippies the MPS are they're not going to
00:56:08
find anybody they don't find anybody matching that description they don't arrest anybody matching that description
00:56:15
and after days and days people go from feeling bad for Jeffrey McDonald to deciding well maybe he is lying
00:56:25
maybe he's the one that is responsible for the murder of his family and it's Freddy casab his father-in-law I think
00:56:35
this is a rare thing I don't think we've seen this in a lot of cases Captain right Freddy cassab goes to bat for
00:56:42
Jeffrey McDonald 100% stands by this guy he says you know you you'd have to be crazy to think that Jeffrey McDonald
00:56:50
would kill his family he was very vocal about it and he stood in front of the media and the newspapers and told all of
00:56:57
them that they are crazy for claiming that Jeffrey McDonald would kill his family right because normally what
00:57:03
happens oh well they had some fights they had some money problems uh my my son-in-law he was a
00:57:10
little bit of hotthead right that's normally what you hear mhm that that it's a possibility or we couldn't
00:57:18
believe it at all with the other Scott Pearson case right couldn't believe it at all but then more things that are
00:57:25
uncovered you start going well maybe this is a possibility yes maybe it is a possibility and then you have to go well
00:57:33
if he did do it what is the motive for it there's that is another question mark another big question mark in this case
00:57:41
did he have a motive to kill his family some say that it was because he was angered that the child wet his bed and
00:57:49
that it started as a small argument that escalated greatly again this uh you know the more and more and I know
00:57:58
that you have been uh researching cases years before I ever did but again this guy you're going to tell me that this
00:58:10
guy his daughter probably W the bed multiple times but he went to go to bed and and she went the bed and he he
00:58:16
decided to then kill everybody and then he's going to make up this story about these Intruders and it's it's very
00:58:24
similar to the John Benet Ramsay oh John Benet Ramsey wet the bed and so the mother decided Well she has to die and
00:58:32
Colette we should point out was pregnant with what would have been the third child for the McDonald family and do
00:58:39
they know what the sex was I believe this time it was going to be a boy so she was well into her pregnancy and look
00:58:48
McDonald had affairs he went outside of his marriage not once not twice probably
00:58:55
I I don't want to put a number on it 5,000 million I'm not going to put a number on it I I don't know for certain
00:59:02
but I know that it was it's kajillion a number according to all the reports and everything that I've read over the years
00:59:08
that it was multiple times well hold on let's get this out of the way so he's a scumbag cheater right but surgeon it was
00:59:17
known to some people that that Colette and Jeffrey had argued and fought about this type of cheating behavior before
00:59:26
that it was kind of a long ongoing argument so so he's a cheater we know that it's like the common thread the guy
00:59:35
is a cheater and then he murders his wife mhm and sometimes he murders his family but is there any financial
00:59:42
troubles I mean he they're living on Fort Bragg and he's a surgeon so he probably
00:59:49
makes decent money as a Green Beret surgeon I don't think that we have any kind of money issues I mean they he
00:59:57
purchased a horse for his daughters for Christmas Rusty just months before this and I think that there's not money
01:00:04
issues because look one given the time period 1970 people spent their money and lived a little quite a bit differently
01:00:11
actually back then than they do today but take that a step further they're living in officer housing he is working
01:00:20
in his profession that will pay him handsomely at some point being a surgeon they're just a young family you know
01:00:28
they're just a young family with two little kids and they're they're coming up through the world they're building
01:00:34
their family they're building their their life and you know so if if money was an issue I don't think it would be a
01:00:42
long-term issue right I also wonder if his father-in-law knew about his infidelity I believe that he did and I
01:00:51
say that because it's obvious to me that colle had expressed the difficulties and
01:00:58
the the trouble with her marriage to her mother and given Freddy cassab's personality him being so personable and
01:01:08
so loving and trusting to his wife and in her children this is not a guy that it strikes me that you keep stuff from
01:01:15
this guy when he walks into a room it's very obvious he's in charge of the whole
01:01:21
room he he takes over a room in that manner but is also like I said extremely personable and loyal to the people
01:01:29
around him this all took place as said captain on February 16th and 17th 1970 it wouldn't be until July of
01:01:39
1970 when Jeffrey McDonald is going to have to go to trial for the murders of his family and I and I should clear that
01:01:50
up and clean that up a bit because that's not exactly what's Happening Here it's it's what the Army calls an article
01:01:57
32 hearing to the civilians out there I would liken this to like kind of like a grand jury hearing where we're going to
01:02:07
decide if there's enough evidence here to charge this guy and bring him to court but because it took place at Fort
01:02:15
Brag on Military property it's the military's jurisdiction yeah so hold on a second so what we have is a guy
01:02:24
that claims that these Intruders killed his family but it doesn't seem like we have a lot of evidence that there was
01:02:32
even Intruders in the house so as far as the investigation goes that's kind of why they're forced into this you know
01:02:41
hey we we don't have much evidence that there was even other individuals there so now we need to look at the most
01:02:50
likely suspect in in a crime like this the husband and then from that they're trying to determine if there's enough
01:02:59
evidence against him to take him to trial the short of it Captain regarding this article 32 hearing that's conducted
01:03:07
by the military they decide that there's really not enough evidence to go forward
01:03:12
and try Jeffrey McDonald for the murders of his family in fact they dismissed the
01:03:20
case with the suggestion that the MPS or maybe even civilian police and law enforcement
01:03:31
agencies look for these four people that McDonald says broke into the apartment and murdered the family I mean cases
01:03:41
especially that are this horrifying you want to get them right because if you don't get it right you can't ever charge
01:03:47
him again and I think this is one of those cases where we can spend the time doing the storytelling and telling you
01:03:55
what happened and how it played out and this thing was a monster of a story to tell because it's a story that that
01:04:03
spans decades and Decades of action in and outside of the courtroom and we'll get back to the storytelling portion a
01:04:11
bit but what I think is really key here in this case is that we look at what we know we look at the facts we examine it
01:04:20
here in the garage and see what our opinions are as well as the listeners out there to figure out if Jeffrey
01:04:29
McDonald is in fact guilty of these murders so let's start with the autopsies so the following is a list of
01:04:38
wounds that were inflicted upon the McDonald family and we'll go through these victim by victim starting with
01:04:47
Colette McDonald Colette sustained several blunt trauma injuries to her head and arm
01:04:54
she was struck at least six times in the head with a blunt object resulting in lacerations to her right Temple left
01:05:03
temple forehead and on top of her head all of these lacerations were deep enough to expose bone she also received
01:05:12
two blows under her chin resulting in extensive bruising to the left front chin area in the right front chin area
01:05:20
there was a small fracture in the midline portion of K skull the blunt trauma injuries to Colette's arms were
01:05:28
defensive type wounds you see that very often so you're seeing obvious signs of she was attacked with a club or
01:05:37
something of that nature struck in her head area and she's trying to block these
01:05:43
blows during this scuffle using her hands and forearms right and what's interesting here is these injuries the
01:05:54
the blunt force trauma to her head would be consistent with Jeffrey McDonald what
01:05:59
he says he was attacked with in the living room yeah and to believe his story you have to believe that somebody
01:06:06
started to attack her and that she woke up then she defended herself Colette's right wrist was fractured and the inner
01:06:15
aspect of her upper arm bore an extensive bruise and a superficial abrasion the fingers and hand of her
01:06:23
right arm had extensive black and blue marks associated with abrasion so this is not a a one andone attack that
01:06:32
happened very quickly this is a fight right that we're seeing here we know this by Colette's injuries her left arm
01:06:40
was also fractured in two places so defending herself and being struck so hard that whatever she's being hit with
01:06:48
is breaking bone as she's trying to fend it off does law enforcement have any clue to what this object would be yes in
01:06:56
fact it's believed that all of the murder weapons and I say all because there are different types of attacks
01:07:04
here right different types of wounds indicating different murder weapons all of them were found at the crime
01:07:13
scene so one was a it's been referred to as a club in some statements McDonald says that he believed he was being hit
01:07:22
with a bat the best way to describe this quote unquote Club is it's like a slat that you would use for a bed and it's
01:07:32
believed well I shouldn't say believed it seems to be damn near 100% proven that this wood this wooden slat came
01:07:40
from the master bed from Jeffrey and his wife's bed in the master bedroom noted Colette also had nine deep knife wounds
01:07:50
to the front of her neck and seven deep knife wounds to her chest and 21 puncture wounds to her chest area and
01:07:59
but you were also saying that the the knife was found at the scene of the crime as well yeah so from my
01:08:05
understanding here Captain what we have is we have uh four murder weapons one is
01:08:10
that club that we just kind of described which you think is a slack that came from the master bed that's that's what
01:08:17
investigators have stated so do investigators also believe that the not only the slack comes from the house but
01:08:25
the knife comes from the house as well so there were two knives and an ice pick so those are your four murder weapons
01:08:34
remember McDonald's account he pulled the knife out of Colette's chest and just kind of tossed it or or threw it
01:08:40
down so that goes what they find at the scene backs up his story for that portion at least that one sentence
01:08:48
because they find a knife in the master bedroom on the floor but they find the club The Ice Pick and a knife outside of
01:09:00
the apartment so they find them basically what you would call the backyard even though this is a shared
01:09:06
space right they have a front door to the apartment and a back door to the apartment when officers arrived at the
01:09:14
scene they found the front door locked and secured they found the back door open and it's right at a bush near this
01:09:23
back door at the base of a bush where they find these murder weapons like so if if four people went into the house
01:09:31
killed this family they must have got in through this back door maybe it was left
01:09:36
unlocked and when they left they of course left the back door unlocked left the door slightly a jar and it would
01:09:44
appear that they just tossed the weapons down as they were fleeing the apartment
01:09:50
but you're right Captain one very difficult thing that I have with this story is that McDonald says that he
01:09:58
didn't recognize some of these items and yet the MPS and the detectives would tell us that they believe that they have
01:10:09
reason to believe that all of these items came from the McDonald family from from their home right you have to
01:10:15
picture this this story starts to become very incredible very fast did these four
01:10:22
individuals happen to find an unlocked back door to the McDonald family home enter with no
01:10:30
weapons go around the house collecting weapons of their own and then using these weapons on the family and then
01:10:38
toss them aside as they flee the crime scene it could have been a mixture of both you know what I mean they could
01:10:43
have found some of the items there they could have brought maybe one or both of the knives with them but the the police
01:10:51
and law enforcement have said the knives belong to to the McDonald family is that
01:10:56
because they think they're a part of a set the answer is I I do not know what they're basing this off of I don't have
01:11:01
any reason to not believe this statement because this thing has gone to trial you
01:11:08
know the article 32 hearing and then we have the actual trial of Jeffrey McDonald later and it seems to be agreed
01:11:15
upon that that these items came from the apartment Kimberly McDonald was struck at least three times in the head with a
01:11:24
blunt object Kimberly's right cheek right ear and right mastoid area had overlapping black and blue marks and
01:11:32
irregular abrasions her right eye was recessed and she had a fractured nose which was deviated to the right her left
01:11:41
cheekbone was fractured and a piece of the cheekbone was protruding through the skin Kimberly skull showed multiple
01:11:49
fractures and the Dome portion of her skull was fractured through it entire thickness it's it's horrific to describe
01:11:57
these things and and I I hate having to say these words but to put it simply her
01:12:03
head was bashed in I mean that's how brutally she was attacked and they found 8 to 10 Deep knife wounds on the right
01:12:11
side of her neck this is one of those weird cases captain and again I'll throw this warning out to you because you
01:12:18
cannot unsee these things you can find crime scene photographs colored photographs online of the McDonald crime
01:12:30
scene unfortunately you can see these victims pictures of these victims how they were found that night when MPS
01:12:38
responded to the call Kristen McDonald sustained 12 knife wounds to her upper back four wounds to her chest and one to
01:12:47
the neck two of the wounds to her back penetrated her heart causing Massive Internal
01:12:53
bleeding 15 shallow puncture wounds were found in her chest as well as multiple cuts on both of her hands there was a
01:13:02
through and through laceration of the skin involving the middle of the right ring finger
01:13:09
so this young girl is attacked she's stabbed as said but again we're seeing obvious signs of defensive wounds here
01:13:19
the she has these wounds to her hand hands and fingers because she's putting them up trying to prevent whatever
01:13:29
attack is going on at that time you know the knife attack the laceration that we
01:13:34
just discussed about the middle of the right ring finger was deep enough to expose bone and the index finger of the
01:13:41
right hand revealed a triangular flap of skin so using the hands to try to fend off this attack this brings us to
01:13:49
Jeffrey McDonald the man that says that he was sleeping on the couch and wakes up in the middle of the night and he's
01:13:55
being attacked by three men in the living room he says that he's attacked there he says that he hears his wife
01:14:02
screaming in the bedroom he hears his daughter screaming in her bedroom now his injuries are as such McDonald
01:14:09
sustained bruising over the left eye beneath the hairline a stab wound of the upper left arm a stab wound of the left
01:14:18
bicep he also received a laceration of the left index finger and a stab wound to the left abdomen in the form of an
01:14:28
upside down V if you can picture that several small puncture type wounds were present on the upper left chest remember
01:14:37
he said when he came to he was confused that would be from the strikes the blows
01:14:42
to the Head MH he said that it became increasingly more difficult to breathe well this is going to be because he
01:14:50
stabbed in the abdomen in the chest area and one of these stabs is powerful enough it went between two of the ribs
01:15:02
on the right side of his chest which resulted in a collapse right lung so of course he's having difficulty breathing
01:15:11
during this time we went through all of that for me to say and I don't want to speak for the captain here cuz again
01:15:19
this is a case that everybody has their own opinion on it and some of them are very strong some people are very strong
01:15:25
in their opinions on this case but we go through all of that for me to tell you this what I see here and what I question
01:15:32
here is I have three female victims Colette and her two small young daughters on these three individuals I
01:15:43
see Overkill yeah on Jeffrey McDonald I see exactly what he described in his defense it's exactly as he would
01:15:52
describe it wound I would expect to see on him given his account of what happened however how does four people
01:16:00
kill three individuals so brutally to the point that their their bodies their clothing their beds are covered in blood
01:16:09
yeah and the one major threat you have in this house I was just going to say that is the Green Beret that's sleeping
01:16:17
on the couch and he does not have anywhere near the number of blows stabs blood on him yeah cuz look if if you're
01:16:28
one of The Intruders you don't know who this guy is you're you're on Fort Brag and if you don't know who this guy
01:16:37
is all you can assume that is he's an officer of the military right mhm and maybe if you know anything about Fort
01:16:46
Brag maybe you know he is a part of the green braids I don't know if they separate the people like that in the
01:16:52
house let's take that all out of account any Intruder that goes into any house who's
01:17:00
their biggest threat to them the 2-year-old girl the 5-year-old girl the mother or the
01:17:08
husband probably the husband and you're going to have what he tells you at least
01:17:16
two males and a female in the same room to attack him with multiple weapons and like you said the other ones their their
01:17:26
bodies are mangled and he somehow is alive yeah we know this from seeing these other attacks and other cases
01:17:35
where people break into a home or you know home invasion type cases BTK type cases the first thing that they
01:17:47
do is neutralize the threat Jeffrey McDonald is the number one threat to the Intruders maybe they neutralized him it
01:17:57
it seems like they if we believe McDonald that they did a good job to neutralize him let's say that but then
01:18:04
why the overkill on these other three individuals why didn't they finish the job on Jeffrey McDonald are we to
01:18:13
believe McDonald that he just was able to fight them off better than his other family members
01:18:21
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