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fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. >> Substance use disorder and addiction is
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so isolating. And so, as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help
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Brought to you by the National Council for Mental Wellbeing, Shatterproof, and the Ad Council.
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>> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
00:01:44
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always, he's the deadliest catch without the crabs, ladies and
00:01:50
gentlemen, the Captain. >> It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks
00:01:55
[music] for telling a friend. >> We are still sipping on Jetboat Citra Hazy IPA. The hazy portion of this IPA
00:02:05
is what fills this baby out giving it more body. The pine here is [music] both great and necessary as it highlights the
00:02:14
hop flavor and brings it up a bit. Garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And here's a cheers to
00:02:24
some of our friends with great flavor as well. First up, a double fisted cheers to Fab Cab and the Preacher Man from
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Spring Grove, Illinois. >> A big B double E and a chip goes out to Stephanie from Omaha.
00:02:37
>> Here's a cheers to Caroline Bryant from Benicia, California and last but certainly not least we have a shout out
00:02:45
to Sophie from Fond du Lac in Minnesota who says, "Remember Captain, it's double
00:02:52
or nothing and see you at CrimeCon." >> Yeah, I'm going to have to bring some cash with me.
00:02:57
>> Everyone we just mentioned went to truecrimegarage.com and contributed to this week's beer fund. We were able to
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fill up the old garage fridge thanks [music] to each and every one of you and for that
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we thank you. >> Yeah, B double E double R you in beer [music] run. Go to truecrimegarage.com,
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sign up on the mailing list and make sure you're subscribed to the podcast and [music] Colonel, that's enough of
00:03:20
the B's, isn't it? >> All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some
00:03:26
true crime. >> [music] >> On Memorial Day weekend in 1991, Michelle Lodzinski, then 21 years old,
00:04:06
told police that her 5-year-old son, Timmy, vanished at a carnival in Sayreville, New Jersey.
00:04:13
She claimed he went missing while she was standing in line to get him a soda, prompting what would turn into a massive
00:04:22
and nationwide search for the little boy. Now, as you can see from episode one, Michelle is a big part of the
00:04:31
investigation, not just because she is the mother of the missing boy, but there are a lot of persons involved in the
00:04:40
investigation who are suspicious of the mother and her statements regarding the night that her son went missing. Now, as
00:04:49
said, a major red flag for me, uh, part of what we covered in episode one was her moving. Like, I get what she's
00:04:57
saying about moving away because of all the media attention and the cameras that were on her home at
00:05:05
the time, but I've never liked it when the parents of a missing child move away, especially this early in the case.
00:05:12
As the reports go, it was roughly 2 weeks. So, about 2 weeks after the boy goes missing that she moves.
00:05:20
>> Yes, normally I would agree with you, but we have Michelle is not stable. So, she's changing jobs often. She
00:05:29
changes her location of where she lives often, and also she's having financial difficulties. So, was
00:05:38
this excuse to get out of whatever lease she was in or whatever because she was having financial difficulties.
00:05:46
>> Well, and that's a keen observation there, my friend, because if she were, as I imagine, probably
00:05:53
living paycheck to paycheck, that means, look, the rent ain't going to pay itself, right? So, if your son goes
00:06:00
missing, your child goes missing, going to work is not your first priority. She may have had to call in a favor to
00:06:07
the landlady and say, "Hey, can I can I step out of this property because I'm not going to be able to make the
00:06:15
rent anymore. I'm not working currently." We do know that she had relatives that she relied on often. So,
00:06:21
I'm assuming a move meant that she went to go stay with folks that could help her. So, she's not leaving the area
00:06:29
per se, but again, look, and this will actually go along with some of her statements later
00:06:36
to police that I think doubles down on why it's a concern for me and a bit of a red
00:06:42
flag. At the center of this, to me, mom always leaves the light on for her kid. The good ones, anyway. Always
00:06:49
leaves the front porch light on letting the kid know, "We are here. We have been
00:06:53
waiting for you to return." In part, Captain, that's why we we called it the Porch Light Project. Leaving that porch
00:07:02
light on for those lost ones. Keeping hope alive that there will be somebody will return, somebody will be found, or
00:07:10
there will be some form of justice for the wrongs that were committed against that person. Go to porchlightonline.org
00:07:18
to learn more if you wish or to participate. Some of the investigators were convinced of one major detail in
00:07:26
this scenario that turns everything in this case upside down. Some were simply convinced that Timmy
00:07:34
was never at that carnival. He was never at that carnival that evening. >> Right.
00:07:40
>> Now, of course, if this is true, that leaves one simple fact. Whatever happened to him whatever happened to
00:07:46
Timmy to cause his disappearance happened before Michelle herself arrived at the
00:07:52
carnival. And therefore, she is responsible and she knows what happened to her son.
00:07:58
>> The other question I have is the individuals that she ran into that were they were related to her, correct?
00:08:05
>> Mhm. >> Did she know that they were going to be there? >> That's a good question because when I
00:08:09
first started reviewing this case, one portion that was quite confusing to me was remember she was supposed to pick up
00:08:18
a niece and take the niece to the carnival or as the story goes. One of the two people that she bumps
00:08:26
into at the carnival is her niece, but so Michelle comes from a a larger family.
00:08:34
She's got a bunch of siblings. It's my understanding that the niece that she bumps into is not the
00:08:40
same as the one she was supposed to pick up. >> Right. >> The interesting thing here is
00:08:46
the statement that the niece the person that was with her when she bumps into Michelle is also someone of So, that
00:08:54
niece's name is Jennifer. The person with her is Jennifer's age and also someone who had babysat
00:09:02
Timothy at least on one occasion. So, the people she's bumping into know both her and her son. I find that to be
00:09:13
rather interesting because they have insights into both the person that they find who is looking for her
00:09:21
son and the person who is missing. People close to Michelle described her as devoted to her son, devoted to Timmy.
00:09:28
Yet after the disappearance, investigators and to some observers, they were suspicious of her demeanor
00:09:36
believing that Michelle did not seem affected in the way that one would expect. Saying that she was she showed very
00:09:45
little emotion during the search for her boy. Now, her father does go on record saying
00:09:53
that that's my daughter. That's how she's always been. She doesn't show a lot of emotion when she's around people.
00:10:02
She doesn't react dramatically to situations when she's in front of a crowd or around a bunch of people, but
00:10:11
behind closed doors, he says that she is very emotional and it's his statement that she was emotional behind closed
00:10:20
doors regarding her son being missing. >> But like I said, every point in this story, there's a
00:10:28
argument for looking at her as a suspect and not looking at her as a suspect. >> Then came
00:10:37
the part of this investigation and the part of the story that is so very difficult.
00:10:45
It's her changing her accounts of the night in question. So, I was hesitant, Captain, to go through
00:10:51
that night as Michelle first described it as it has changed a lot over time. Her story has changed from slight
00:10:59
variations to extremely different versions of that same story. >> Right. >> We will circle back to that in a bit,
00:11:07
but the the changing stories led to further questioning from police investigators and FBI.
00:11:14
And further questioning of Michelle then led to her failing two polygraph examinations.
00:11:21
So, Michelle took two polygraph tests, one administered by the FBI. This was two days after the night at the
00:11:28
carnival. And another about a week later. The second one was conducted by the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office and
00:11:37
said she failed both. According to officials, test administrators described her as emotionally inconsistent and
00:11:44
unusually focused on how she was doing during the exam. This one's tricky. This point of the
00:11:54
case is tricky for me because we've had experts who administer these tests and say that when they are conducted
00:12:02
properly, they're a very great tool. We've had We've had law enforcement members, both
00:12:08
FBI and police, who have stated that they can be a good tool and you could use them in a different
00:12:15
in a number of different ways in your investigation or when talking to a witness or a suspect, but not to put a
00:12:22
whole lot of weight into if somebody passes or fails. Now, back to something that John Douglas told us, legendary FBI
00:12:30
agent, criminal profiler, told us that often times when interviewing a parent, he said especially a father,
00:12:38
but he did say when interviewing a parent, he would expect them to fail the exam because they hold a certain
00:12:46
level of guilt even when they're innocent in the matter because a child because a parent naturally wants to
00:12:52
protect their child and if your child is missing or dead, you failed to protect them. So, you are you are guilty in that
00:12:59
regard. What I'm about here, Captain, when we we see certain cases where the police want
00:13:08
once they seem to hone in on somebody and it looks like they're really honing in on Michelle here,
00:13:15
their stance on everything and even their posturing on everything see is all always
00:13:22
presenting that same argument that everything points to this person. Everything that in our investigation is
00:13:29
pointing to this person. So, of course, her failing two polygraph examinations points to her being guilty and doing
00:13:36
something to her son, being responsible for why he's missing. But, if Douglas is right,
00:13:43
she failed because of guilt. I want to know what were the questions she failed on.
00:13:49
Are those questions that would be one would fail because they the person holds some guilt in their hearts and on
00:13:56
their minds? >> Right. >> Not because they did something wrong, but because they couldn't protect their
00:14:00
son? Or were these questions that actually would point to her being a good suspect for his disappearance?
00:14:07
And also to the average Joe, as we said many watching on TV found her to be far too composed during
00:14:16
her time with the media. We went through some of the good parenting statements from folks in
00:14:22
episode 1. Now, let's look at the other side of that coin. These are statements made to
00:14:27
investigators and to the DA's office. This is from two men that dated Michelle and from a one of her babysitters.
00:14:41
Now, she had a lot of babysitters, so let's keep in mind, I don't know, we don't know, it's never been reported if
00:14:47
this was somebody who babysat often or if it was a once or twice thing. Now, of these men,
00:14:55
this is from a man who for a short time was actually engaged to Michelle. So, this is a former fiance.
00:15:04
He was sharply critical of Michelle's parenting. He said he believed that she wasn't
00:15:12
attentive enough to the boy. And he said that he thought that Michelle acted more like an older sister
00:15:20
than a mother. He pointed to an incident that he claimed illustrated the lack supervision.
00:15:27
>> Yeah, but a neglectful parent is is one thing. To murder your child is a whole
00:15:34
different animal. >> Well, and to be clear, using his words, he doesn't say neglectful. He says
00:15:41
that she was just not as attentive as he thought she should be and that had lack
00:15:45
supervision for a youngster. This is So, she He's pointing to an incident when Timothy needed stitches after being
00:15:53
bitten by a dog that lived next door. Okay? And the man who was the fiance at the time
00:16:01
said that he had warned Michelle multiple times about letting the boy play outside in the backyard unattended,
00:16:09
especially while the dog was out there and and loose. >> Right. >> From my understanding, that engagement
00:16:16
ended well before Timothy disappeared, but criticism of Michelle's decisions did not come only from
00:16:24
this one romantic partner. As we said, from one of Timmy's babysitters, this babysitter described an occasion
00:16:32
when she was watching Timmy late at night while Michelle was out, and according to her account, Michelle
00:16:39
called that night, asked her to allow Timmy to leave with a man who the babysitter said that she did not
00:16:50
know. So, the babysitters tells mom no, so she refuses. Michelle doesn't like this. She returned
00:16:58
home, and according to the sitter, she forced Timothy into a car that was driven by Michelle's then boyfriend at
00:17:06
the time, his name Fred Bruno, and the babysitter said that she believed that little Timothy was
00:17:12
terrified of Bruno. >> And we do have evidence that she has a bad picker. >> Or trouble staying in a relationship.
00:17:21
>> Right. But again, this goes back to what I said. I mean, she's just she's not
00:17:26
stable in almost any aspect of her life. >> True. >> But some of that could just be maturity.
00:17:32
>> Well, she's 23, right? We We keep We are looking at this as she's a mother, but
00:17:39
>> Well, again, she's still young and >> 23's very young. >> Yeah. >> I told you, I said on the show before, I
00:17:45
had a soft spot on my head till I was 26. >> Maybe 27. We're not >> No. Nope. Don't you start. Okay, so
00:17:53
>> Doctor was still concerned. >> That's right. >> [laughter] >> Put on a helmet, sir.
00:17:57
>> Yes. >> Michelle Lodzinski's inconsistent accounts are what we need to get into.
00:18:02
We said we would circle back to it. So, the investigation into Timothy Wiltsey's
00:18:06
disappearance highlighted multiple inconsistencies in statements from his mother, Michelle. And I as I said, some
00:18:13
of them are slight- -ly different versions of that story, and others are dramatically
00:18:22
drastically different. So, Michelle told investigators that she and Timothy spent
00:18:27
that afternoon at Holmdel Park before going to an evening carnival, right? The park police
00:18:36
reported that the lot The parking lot where she said she parked her car was actually closed that day.
00:18:43
They said that they found no one who saw her and Timothy at that park. >> Yeah, that's a
00:18:50
>> It's >> It's a little bit of a red flag. >> It's suspicious, but it's also not It's
00:18:55
not 100% conclusive, right? She could have just parked her car elsewhere. >> Mhm. [clears throat]
00:18:59
>> Um there could have been a discrepancy there, and she I'm sure we've I'm sure
00:19:05
I've been to a park or you've been to a park at one point, and nobody else saw you there.
00:19:09
>> Well, especially if I wear all camo. >> Now, we also pointed out that the last
00:19:13
confirmed sighting of Timothy by someone other than Michelle was that neighbor who said that
00:19:22
they had saw the two of them earlier that day. So, we have that confirmed sighting, but the
00:19:30
the problem is after that, other than these two carnival workers who didn't know Michelle, didn't know Timmy, that
00:19:38
said that I think that's who I saw, we don't have anybody else saying that they saw Timmy and mom together that
00:19:46
evening. Now, more than a week after Timothy disappeared, Michelle was interviewed by police in
00:19:54
Sayreville and claimed that two men with a knife took her son and threatened her into silence.
00:20:03
>> Wait. >> [snorts] >> That's a much different story than I was buying a soda and turned around and he
00:20:09
was gone. >> Mhm. >> So, let's go back to the original statement with the I I was hesitant to
00:20:17
report what her original statement was because there's been multiple variations of that and I don't know where those
00:20:24
variations come from. So, in some of those variations, she and Timmy are in line together at the refreshment stand
00:20:31
to buy a soda. She's waiting on change for the $10 bill, turns and he's gone. >> Mhm.
00:20:38
>> The other variation of that is that she he was in line for a ride and she didn't want him to lose his
00:20:46
place. He wanted something to drink. The refreshment stand was was right nearby the ride. She walks
00:20:55
over just a few steps, hops in line to get the soda. After she gets her change for the $10
00:21:02
bill, turns back expecting to see him still in line for that ride nearing the front of the line, and he's no longer
00:21:09
there. So, that's a slightly different variation, but I don't know where those I don't know that both of them I can't
00:21:14
say with 100% certainty that they both came from Michelle. What I can say with 100% certainty is
00:21:21
this version of that same story, which is completely different, did come from Michelle, and it was a statement that
00:21:29
she gave to police at the Sayreville Police Department. A week after her son went missing, she says two men with a
00:21:37
knife took her son, threatening her into silence. >> That's bizarre. When police challenged her on this,
00:21:47
the report is that she walked out of the interview, and that later that same day
00:21:53
she returned to the police department with her sister and a friend, and recanted her statement from that
00:22:01
day. >> But, it makes you wonder how was that questioning going? Was she volunteering
00:22:06
this information up, or were they We've seen this happen multiple times where it's not an interrogation, it's a
00:22:13
questioning that turns into an interrogation. >> Where it's accusatory, yeah. >> Right. And the person starts going, "I'm
00:22:20
trying to remember. I'm trying to remember." And then they start tossing out these [ __ ] stories. I mean,
00:22:26
sometimes uh claiming that they're the killer, right? I'm trying to remember. I'm trying to
00:22:32
figure out, you know, so is it possible that that's what this was? And then she goes, "Well, maybe
00:22:40
these two guys at knife point kidnapped." You know what I mean? So, >> Right. We've seen that in in multiple
00:22:46
cases. The yogurt shop case comes to mind. >> Yeah. >> But, it doesn't end there, my friend.
00:22:54
The next day, this is during a long, confrontational interview. So, this is reported as being
00:23:02
very long, very confrontational. She seemed to offer up a third version of the story. It still involves the two
00:23:11
men, but now involves a woman. So, she says two men and a woman took Timothy after the woman offered to watch
00:23:18
him briefly while Michelle went to get sodas so he could keep his place in line for a ride that he wanted to go on.
00:23:26
Michelle said that she knew the woman as Ellen. Now, she says what's tricky about this Ellen person is
00:23:34
it's unclear if she claims to have known the woman by name or by a nickname or remembers her to be Ellen because she
00:23:43
describes this Ellen as a local go-go dancer who at one time was a customer at the bank where she had worked at one
00:23:52
time. Uh she worked there as a teller. So, this story's very complicated because she claims that this woman would
00:24:02
cash her checks at the bank where she worked and that's how she knew the woman. What's weird about this story though,
00:24:11
and I I'll I'll circle back to Ellen. It's weird for all kinds of levels. >> Yeah.
00:24:15
>> I don't know why I always say that. [laughter] It's one thing that's weird. >> you're an idiot.
00:24:20
>> I'm a [ __ ] It's that soft spot. It never, you know. >> It never Well, you said it healed.
00:24:25
>> It did. It's solid now, but it it's brain damaged. >> Sometimes it opens back up.
00:24:32
>> But remember there were teenage boys that said that they thought they saw a little boy with two men and a woman
00:24:38
leaving the park, leaving the festival. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was that's what I was going to bring up.
00:24:45
>> So, that is crazy. But then Okay, so then the FBI's like, all right, well, let's figure out who this Ellen person
00:24:52
is. And it's not their first investigation. So, what do they do? They go to the bank
00:25:00
who's going to have records of all of these transactions. >> Right. >> But they only need to hone in on the
00:25:07
time that she worked there. And I don't know how long she worked at this bank, but we we went through
00:25:14
we'll go through some of her other work history later, but some of these jobs she only held for a handful of months.
00:25:21
And what the FBI says is at no point does a woman named Ellen cash a check at that bank
00:25:30
when Michelle worked there. So if this woman exist, either she has the name completely wrong or she's the
00:25:38
woman doesn't exist >> Or it's a nickname. >> and she made it up. So basically the FBI
00:25:44
their statement is we tried, we cannot locate Ellen in air quotes in any capacity and we are actually unsure if
00:25:53
this woman even exists. >> Yeah, but then the eyewitnesses that see the two men with the lady and
00:26:00
the child. >> Mhm. >> But there's probably a lot of two men and a lady and a little child at the
00:26:07
carnival. >> Now remember the boyfriend Fred Bruno who the babysitter said she thought Timmy was terrified of this
00:26:15
guy? >> Yes. >> We need to point out here like Fred Bruno was beyond cooperative with police
00:26:24
to the point of like trying to help them snare her in some kind of trap. Okay, so
00:26:32
he he's her boyfriend at the time. Police arranged with Michelle's boyfriend Fred Bruno
00:26:38
to call her while they sat in and monitored the conversation trying to get to see what she would say
00:26:46
about her son being missing, what happened that night and so on and so forth. >> Right.
00:26:52
>> During this call, she refused to discuss details by phone and told him she would
00:26:57
talk to him, but only in person. So, the next day the two meet up. Bruno picks her up.
00:27:04
They're in his vehicle, but prior to him arriving, they planted a microphone in Fred
00:27:10
Bruno's vehicle. He knows this, she does not. >> Well, some people report that they shoved it
00:27:18
right up his butt. >> Now, during this conversation So, they talk about Timmy being missing. And during
00:27:26
this conversation, what was recorded on that butt phone was that Michelle repeated the Ellen account and
00:27:35
said that she had originally withheld it at first because she feared that people
00:27:41
would think that she was a bad mother for leaving Timothy briefly with someone she barely knew.
00:27:59
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Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. >> [music] [music] >> All right, we are back. Talk hands in
00:30:03
the air. >> You used to call me on my butt phone. >> Phone. Yeah. >> All right, let's get serious. Here,
00:30:10
Captain, this is a serious situation. >> my phone up my butt, I like to put it on
00:30:14
vibrate. Just for the record. >> Well, that's one way you can guarantee that no one at Crime Con will pick up
00:30:20
your cell phone from our our table. >> [laughter] >> All right. The following day,
00:30:28
we have Michelle. She's at the police station once again. She's being interviewed once again. And this time
00:30:35
the interview is reported to have taken about 5 hours. During this interview, she repeats the Ellen story, but she
00:30:43
amended it a little bit adding that at one at one point one of the men held a knife to her throat.
00:30:51
>> Mhm. >> And I tell you what, I've heard even more versions than this about these
00:30:56
different stories. I I think there was an account where at one time they had threatened to cut the boy's face
00:31:03
if she didn't shut up. So when again when challenged by police she, according to police, she's the one
00:31:13
that ended the interview abruptly, telling police, "Hey, if you want to charge me with something, charge
00:31:18
me. If not, I'm leaving." Part of this story is crazy. And this goes back to the idea
00:31:24
of she moved because during that interview, what police would say is that she not only did she repeat the same
00:31:32
account of the Ellen story, but she's also saying that they told her this these mystery men and and the woman,
00:31:38
Ellen, told Michelle that they would they would taking the boy and that they would return him unharmed
00:31:46
in about a month if she stayed quiet. >> Yeah, but that this reminds me of the case where the the boys are missing
00:31:54
and but the dad says that he left them with somebody, but he won't tell people who he left them with.
00:32:00
>> Yeah, the case that's another case out of Michigan. >> Don't go to Michigan. >> The skeleton boys.
00:32:05
>> Yeah. Skeleton brothers. >> This part I is important that we report this as well because
00:32:11
after this interview, her friends are concerned about her appearance, her well-being.
00:32:18
They drove her straight from the interview to the hospital. And she was like malnourished, dehydrated. She
00:32:26
appeared to be having a mental breakdown as well. So good for her friends. Maybe
00:32:31
[snorts] some of this is plays into what she's saying during this interview. >> Right.
00:32:36
>> It's it's really hard to say. She's going to She's going to stick to this story though for a very long time as
00:32:43
we're about to see. 5 days later, an investigator from the county prosecutor's office interviewed Michelle
00:32:49
at her home with a similar result. She became increasingly hostile, gave short answers, then burst into tears, said her
00:32:56
son was the most important thing in the world to her, and ordered the investigators to leave the home.
00:33:02
Just before Timothy's birthday, that So, now we're in early August 1991. Renewed media attention followed
00:33:11
his birthday. Michelle went and visited her sister in Florida. Remember her sister One of her sisters is down in
00:33:17
Florida. She went down to Florida to visit her sister for 2 weeks, and during that time
00:33:22
she sought counseling. Now we get to the sneaker part of this story. We have to get into
00:33:30
the sneaker story. This is from the Home News out of New Brunswick, New Jersey. They ran an article by Jennifer
00:33:38
Hutchinson dated November 19th, 1991. Pay attention to that date, November 19th, 1991. The headline was "Missing
00:33:47
Boy's Sneaker May Have Been Located." The article included a map marking where a sneaker was found.
00:33:54
>> Yeah, but this sneaker is interesting. >> Yeah, it's very interesting. So, a brief
00:33:59
description here, a white a color white child's size 13 sneaker was found in a swampy area of Edison,
00:34:09
New Jersey. And the article says that that sneaker that was found may have been worn by the missing boy,
00:34:16
Timothy, who's been missing since May 25th, 1991. As the story goes, the discovery and then the handoff of this
00:34:24
piece of potential evidence, October 26th, so almost a month before the news article.
00:34:31
October 26, 1991, Daniel O'Malley, he's a science teacher at Bound Brook Junior and Senior High School.
00:34:40
He says he found a mud-coated sneaker while walking in a marsh near Raritan Center, which is a large industrial park
00:34:49
off of Woodbridge Avenue near Middlesex County College. So, he brought the sneaker to the Sayreville police who
00:34:57
were investigating Timothy's disappearance. And police summoned Timothy's mother,
00:35:04
Michelle, to come to the police department to inspect the sneaker. So, this is all going on in October. We'll
00:35:11
get to why the news article came almost a month later here here in a second, but what police say is that
00:35:18
when she gets to the police department, she looks over the sneaker, she could not confirm that it was Timothy's.
00:35:24
And we we need to I need to be clear about this. This is where parts of the story get very difficult because we
00:35:32
don't get to have the privilege of sitting in on that conversation between mom and detectives. All we get is mom
00:35:42
talking to the newspapers. So, what we get is basically the detectives say mom comes in and told us it wasn't Timothy's
00:35:50
sneaker. Mom tells the newspapers she's a bit vague, but she's kind of like I can't confirm or I can't say that
00:35:58
it is his, I can't say that it's not his. Which could also be what she told police.
00:36:03
>> Yeah, it's very difficult because I think simply you go these are newer shoes that she bought.
00:36:10
How can she not recognize them? >> True, but she's looking at this shoe in October.
00:36:17
>> Yeah. >> The boy went missing in almost exactly 5 months prior, and she's simply saying, "Look, when when they
00:36:25
showed me the shoe, it was covered in heavy mud and the time that's gone by since his disappearance, I can't confirm
00:36:33
that it was Timmy's. So, her her version of how that went down is she says, "I couldn't say it was his. I couldn't say
00:36:40
that it wasn't his." Police tell the paper she said it wasn't his. >> Right. >> Now, what we do know happened, this is
00:36:46
fact, we can prove this. She did later return to the police station with another pair of Timmy's shoes. And she
00:36:53
said that she brought them to the police department to compare the soles of the shoes because she said, "Hey, look, my
00:37:00
son when he wears his shoes, he tends to wear down one side of the shoe." >> Yeah.
00:37:05
>> And she said, "When I was there looking at the shoe that you asked me to identify, I didn't think to look at the
00:37:10
soles. So, here's the sole of the shoe. So, here's some shoes that he wore prior, can you compare them?" Now,
00:37:18
regarding the shoes that he was wearing at the time that he went missing, this is months before the sneaker was found.
00:37:25
She did give police a shoe box. The empty shoe box for the pair of shoes that he was wearing. Okay, so the shoe
00:37:32
box would describe the shoes, right? It says green Ninja Turtle, it was so it was a
00:37:39
green Ninja Turtles box stating white, color white, size 13, stock number 0758. The sneaker that was found was white in
00:37:51
color, youth size 13. It shows Raphael, the one that wears the red color >> Mhm.
00:37:58
>> turtle on the but it only shows his face for my understanding. Now, the stock
00:38:04
number listed inside matches 0758. Now, a local shoe store manager did caution everyone. Caution police and
00:38:15
said, "Sometimes different styles from the same maker can share a stock number." But again, police discounted it
00:38:24
as being Timmy's shoe, which seems bizarre to me. The stock number is the same, the description is the same.
00:38:32
You're already not trusting Mom by this time. So, why then do you say to the papers later, "Well, she said it wasn't
00:38:38
his, so we took her word for it." That seems weird to me. >> Yeah. >> You either trust somebody or you don't.
00:38:44
Like, you can't pick and choose. >> Well, you can. >> Well, I guess I guess they did.
00:38:50
>> Right. They did. So. >> Yeah. >> Evidence that you can. >> They said that when they originally
00:38:55
interviewed Michelle, she reacted strongly in October that the shoe was not her son's.
00:39:01
She told the police during that conversation that Timmy's shoes had many Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on them,
00:39:10
including villains, and the stamps showed their bodies, not just faces. So, those details obviously would not
00:39:18
have matched up with the shoe they found. Now, this Dan O'Malley dude, I I like this guy. I Other than Other than
00:39:26
Timmy, he's my favorite guy, my favorite person in the story. So, O'Malley said he found the sneaker after he was
00:39:34
attending a baseball card show with a friend that was held at the Raritan Center Expo- Exposition Center
00:39:42
at the Raritan Center Exposition Hall in October of 1991. He and the friend drove down Olympic
00:39:51
So, this is described as a deserted, unlit road with no houses. They say that they parked at the end of
00:39:57
this road, and they walked into the swamp area, the the marsh area, to look at wildlife. They were both
00:40:05
They're both into wildlife. And so, they just wanted to take a little walk in the area while they're
00:40:10
out there. He says he spots the shoe, and it seemed familiar to him because he had followed the story in the paper.
00:40:20
So, he turns it into the police. >> Mhm. >> Well, the newspaper gets the story from
00:40:25
Dan O'Malley, not from the police, not from Michelle. They get the story from Dan O'Malley because he's like
00:40:32
he goes to the newspaper and he says, "Look, I'm a little annoyed. I turned this thing in a month ago. Nobody's
00:40:37
talked about it at all. Nobody's called me to ask me about it, so I went to the newspaper." Well, police did say that
00:40:45
the area near the Raritan Center had been searched multiple times, saying that detectives had received phone calls
00:40:55
from psychics. They had received at least one anonymous tip about the area, and of course the
00:41:02
discovery of the sneaker prompted searches of that area. I have listed that this area was searched three times
00:41:10
after the sneaker was found, roughly within the month that it was found, but these searches turned up nothing of
00:41:18
importance. The tricky thing here, Captain, and I don't mean to be overly critical, but I
00:41:25
question how the thoroughness of these searches and how many resources and how much effort was put into them. I don't
00:41:33
know. It's Sometimes these things these details in these stories really bother me because as bad as this case is, a
00:41:41
missing boy, as sad as that is, you have to look at it from an officer's perspective and a
00:41:49
detective's perspective. While you don't want any kid to ever go missing, isn't this the stuff that you
00:41:56
live for? Isn't this what you get up like >> Mhm. >> Some of some of the people that work in
00:42:01
this line of of work, that go into these careers, they do it for the excitement.
00:42:08
And if I'm involved in a missing person's case and somebody tells me that they found a shoe that could be the shoe
00:42:13
of the missing person, >> Yeah. >> you're going to have to drag me out of that area. I'm going to be there day and
00:42:19
night looking for something. Like, [ __ ] this is the break we we needed. It's been 5 months.
00:42:26
Regarding Michelle, she spoke with the newspaper as well. She expressed a lot of concern. She was concerned at the
00:42:33
possibility that the sneaker might be Timothy's. She said, "Look, the thought of it being my son's shoe makes me very
00:42:40
uneasy." She said, "I want my son to be found. I want him to be okay. When he's found, I want him to be wearing his
00:42:47
sneakers when he's found. I don't want him scattered all over the place." And she added that if the sneaker is not
00:42:55
his, she would be happy about that. That is really where the case rounds out and
00:43:02
ends the year of 1991. So, now we move into 1992. In March of 1992, the case shifts
00:43:10
toward the Raritan Center that we just discussed. The ongoing investigation into the disappearance of 5-year-old
00:43:17
Timothy Wiltsey reached a new phase in March of 1992 with law enforcement turning its
00:43:22
attention more deliberately toward searches and physical evidence. By that point, the case had already accumulated
00:43:30
interviews, theories, and repeated retellings of events. The investigators needed
00:43:38
now something concrete, something that could anchor the story to a place, to an item, or timeline that could be tested
00:43:47
and figured out if these items or timeline is true. >> Right. >> So, we have an FBI agent. The FBI's been
00:43:55
involved in this, as we said, since the beginning. But, an FBI agent assigned to
00:43:59
the case decided, "Hey, you know what? We're going to interview Michelle again."
00:44:03
And this time she did not come alone. She had an attorney present with her during this interview. When questioned,
00:44:09
she did what she had done before. She reiterated the Ellen story, the same account that she
00:44:16
had previously provided to investigators. Nothing about that interview, at least
00:44:21
on the record, sounded to be new or a dramatic break in the case. >> Right. >> It was another official conversation,
00:44:31
but her earlier narrative still stood. But, here's where the case starts moving because the FBI agent did not stop with
00:44:41
Michelle. So, he interviews Dan O'Malley again, the guy who found the sneaker, and he wants to hone in on this Raritan
00:44:49
Center located in Edison, New Jersey. And that sneaker, if it did belong to the boy, obviously would be significant,
00:44:59
right? An object found in a location that demanded explanation. The agent began interviewing Michelle's
00:45:05
friends and family again, and during those conversations, he uncovered a detail that reframed the geography of the case.
00:45:15
Investigators learned that 3 years earlier, Michelle had actually worked for 6 months
00:45:22
at a fulfillment center located in that Raritan Center complex. >> Mhm. >> Now, what's even more troubling about this is
00:45:33
prior to finding out this information, they had asked her to provide them with her work history. The work history that
00:45:42
she provided did not have any mention of her working that 6 months at the Raritan Center complex.
00:45:49
>> Which I'm guessing 6 months at [clears throat] a job for her would be longer than most of her employment
00:45:55
locations. >> I guess in a if in her defense, I would say it was 3 years prior, but I again,
00:46:04
if she's providing the best that she can, her work history if they asked for it to
00:46:10
include 4 years or 5 years, that should have been in there. And like you said, 6
00:46:13
months would be a big chunk of time during that that time frame. >> Right. >> So, they go and they find some people
00:46:21
that used to work with her, some co-workers and people that knew her during her time when she worked for the
00:46:27
fulfillment center at the Raritan Center. And a couple of people said they had remembered that she was known to have
00:46:34
taken frequent walks around the complex. Now, that meant something important to their investigation
00:46:42
because that fulfillment center sat within a few blocks of where the sneaker had been found.
00:46:48
>> Right. >> So, the discovery becomes more interesting, more troubling, >> makes you want to do more searches.
00:46:55
>> And did she hide the fact that she worked in that area? When she was later asked about it directly, she didn't she
00:47:02
didn't try to duck or dodge the question. She did acknowledge. She said, "Yes, I did in fact work at that
00:47:08
fulfillment center." So, the the omission itself becomes part of the investigation. Again, whether
00:47:14
intentional or not, difficult to say. >> Right. >> But, the linkage would drive the linkage
00:47:21
would drive the investigators to the next step in the investigation. So, the following month in late April of
00:47:28
1992, a 2-day search near Olympic Drive. So, during this 2-day time period, law enforcement teams conducted a full
00:47:35
search of a mostly marshy area near Olympic Drive in the Raritan Center. It did not take long for the search to
00:47:44
produce results. Investigators quickly located a second sneaker matching the first one that had been found.
00:47:51
>> Mhm. Not good. >> Like the first one, Captain, it was Timmy's size. The report is the second sneaker was
00:48:00
found roughly 150 ft from the location of the first. The search teams also found a pillowcase at about that same
00:48:08
location. Then about 2 hours later searchers located something far more damning. At a point approximately 400 to
00:48:16
550 ft further away from the sneaker location, they found a skull and 10 other bones.
00:48:25
The remains were discovered in and around a truck tire that had been dredged from the bottom of Red Root
00:48:31
Creek. The area continued to yield objects that felt haunting to the investigation. A
00:48:38
Ninja Turtle balloon was found. So was a 10 ft by 3 ft blue and white blanket. This was found buried into the
00:48:48
embankment positioned about 15 to 20 ft above the creek bed where the bones were
00:48:54
located. So we have these shoes, a pillowcase, a tire in the creek, scattered bones, a balloon, a blanket.
00:49:02
The identif- The identification >> Was she able to identify any of the other items?
00:49:09
>> That's interesting. I I don't know how quickly she was notified or asked to identify these
00:49:16
items. She does look at them at some point, but from my understanding, so what we get is
00:49:24
the medical examiner, of course, is going to get involved, and the skull is confirmed to be the remains of Timothy
00:49:30
Wiltsey. This identification was made and confirmed through dental records. >> Right.
00:49:36
>> The county medical examiner ruled the death a homicide, but even with that ruling
00:49:42
the most critical s- specifics remained out of reach, right? Due to the advanced decomposi-
00:49:50
decomposition the time of death, location of death, and medical cause of death could not be
00:49:58
determined. So, she's not there when he's found. She is later informed. So, she's
00:50:06
informed that night after they positively make the identification. According to the FBI
00:50:13
agent, Michelle was unemotional when told that the remains were found. She was unemotional when questioned
00:50:22
about a detail that in- investigators could not ignore. Why was his remains found 0.4 miles from a former workplace?
00:50:31
>> Right. >> 0.4 miles from a former workplace that you had initially not disclosed to
00:50:37
police. >> Absolutely. >> Now, >> and and then also the changing of the stories. That's something that I think
00:50:45
law enforcement is going to have a very hard time getting past. >> Mhm. >> I think I think listeners of the show
00:50:51
are going to have a hard time getting past that. It's it's I mean, you're looking for your son. I don't care about
00:50:57
a guy with a knife. Anyway, so now, she did say, "Look, when they're questioning her,
00:51:04
and they bring up, 'Look, you you did not disclose to us that you had worked at this place and it's so very close to
00:51:09
where we eventually found the skull of your missing son.' >> Yeah. >> She does say,
00:51:15
and I don't think they could find anybody to refute this, she does say, "Yes, I took walks around the center,
00:51:21
but I walked around the complex where I worked. It's 0.4 miles from where you found
00:51:26
him." She She says, "I'm unaware that Olympic Drive, so this is the street nearest where the body was
00:51:33
found. She's I don't even know what that road is. I don't know that that road exists."
00:51:38
>> Right. >> So, it's it's it's difficult. >> interesting just to take her other
00:51:43
locations of where she worked and to go, "Well, how far away was his remains from
00:51:49
from those locations as well? Because if one is 0.4 and the other one is 0.6 and
00:51:55
the other one is 1. whatever, then you go, well, maybe this is that doesn't mean much of anything.
00:52:01
>> Exactly. And and if the others are a great distance and this is not, then this is a one-off and you it carries
00:52:08
more weight. >> Right. >> So, we do get lab testing, but really, dude, I think this this ends
00:52:15
up being unanswered questions about these items that were found near the remains.
00:52:21
Now, the physical evidence went to the FBI lab, but testing did not produce the hoped-for breakthrough in the case.
00:52:29
According to these reports, no trace evidence was found on the items recovered during the search. As for the
00:52:35
blanket, the 10-ft by 3-ft blanket, >> Mhm. >> reports said that neither Michelle nor
00:52:43
her parents recognized it as coming from their home. So, they were shown the blanket.
00:52:47
The blanket remained an object without a confirmed origin after these questions posed to her parents and to
00:52:55
Michelle, despite being found in a location that now carried an enormous investigative weight to it. The
00:53:02
pillowcase raised its own unresolved question. It was not known whether the pillowcase
00:53:08
was shown to anyone who might recognize it. We don't have any statements regarding the pillowcase.
00:53:13
But the case really transformed, obviously. The search moved from a from a sneaker found near
00:53:19
an industrial complex to the confirmed recovery of Timothy Wiltsey's remains, along with objects found nearby that
00:53:27
hinted at movement, concealment, or disposal. Yet, despite that grim clarity, the investigation was still
00:53:34
left straining for the connecting thread that would explain [music] how the pieces fit together.
00:54:02
>> Twist and turns, [music] what to believe, what not to believe, evidence that points
00:54:08
for or against Timothy's mother being the prime suspect. So much more to get to.
00:54:15
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