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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you doing thanks for
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[Music] Crime on June 6th 1996 Devon age 6 Damon age5 were murdered their mother darly roer is
00:03:55
taken directly to the hospital less than two days later on June 8th darly gives a
00:04:00
written statement to police on June 14th darly family and friends celebrate Devon's birthday and that is certainly
00:04:10
an event that we will get into when we get into the trial portion of Today's Show 4 days later captain on June 18th
00:04:18
darly is arrested and charged with capital murder with the murder of her two sons we have discussed a good deal
00:04:26
of the crime scene and evidence found at the crime scene but we need to go through that a bit more in some strong
00:04:35
details here right so let's get into some things regarding items found at the crime scene that point toward darly
00:04:44
being guilty and in some opinions maybe even innocent first is the knife the knife that was used in the course of the
00:04:54
murders was determined to have come from the home it was a knife that came from a
00:04:58
set from a Butcher Block that was kept on the kitchen counter in the rer home officer David Maine testified that the
00:05:05
butcher knife that matched the set with blood on the blade and handle was found on the kitchen counter one knife was
00:05:13
missing from the knife block and this knife fit into that slot perfectly Bob P an analyst with the southwestern
00:05:23
Institute of forensic Sciences in Dallas testified about this knife that quote I
00:05:28
was not able to determine conclusively that this knife made the wound on Devon's chest but my opinion is that a
00:05:35
knife with similar characteristics made the wound Judith Floyd a DNA analyst with genan screen labs in Dallas
00:05:43
testified that traces of both Damon and dar's blood were found on this knife she
00:05:49
did not receive the entire knife just some samples taken from it Dr Joanie mlan testified that the stab wounds to
00:05:57
Devon were in fact consistent with that blade and the knife was still sitting there bloody when the officers
00:06:05
arrived on the scene there's really no question in my opinion captain that this was the knife that was used to kill
00:06:12
Devon and Damon and it came from within the rotier's own home whether or not the
00:06:17
knife came from inside the house or from outside the house doesn't point in my opinion towards her being more guilty or
00:06:27
more innocent that's correct it does not tell us who was using the knife during the course of the attacks what we do
00:06:35
know is it was used on darly as well if we are to believe the blood evidence now
00:06:40
darly claimed that the killer or the Intruder threw the bloody knife down on the floor of her utility room but
00:06:48
multiple experts this is law enforcement and crime scene analysis testified that
00:06:53
this story was not consistent with the evidence they stated that there basically would have been blood SP
00:06:59
splatter or other marks left on the floor by the knife cluttered clattering to the tiles instead in the utility room
00:07:08
there were some blood drips and I'm going to break this down because there are multiple experts that come in and
00:07:16
testify as to the blood evidence but to rather than go through each one of them I can collectively report what they are
00:07:25
generally saying here they're saying about the blood evidence a couple of things one they're not seeing blood
00:07:34
evidence that suggests that whoever was carrying the bloody knife that they were
00:07:39
running and fleeing from the home okay again this could have been an intruder this could be darly running around with
00:07:47
a bloody knife what they're saying that it's consistent with is somebody walking
00:07:52
slowly throughout the home that the way that the blood is dripping from the knife and onto the floor would be that
00:07:58
of someone walk walking at a slower Pace not speeding not jogging not sprinting through the house yeah but if you just
00:08:07
stabbed all three people and for all you know those are the only people in the house why are you going to run away why
00:08:14
not just walk away well I I'm not trying to get into the mind of the potential Intruder here I'm just using this and
00:08:22
cross referencing it against darley's account of what went down that night Tom Beville a retired Oklahoma City Police
00:08:31
Captain who was the owner and teacher at a forensic School testified about an experiment that he conducted he dropped
00:08:39
and threw a bloody butcher knife six or seven times onto the floor and said that
00:08:44
he could not duplicate the blood spatters found on the utility room floor it was his opinion his conclusion that
00:08:52
no knife had ever been thrown down at that location James kraw test testified that
00:09:00
there was no evidence that the knife had been thrown down anywhere the blood in the utility room was from someone slowly
00:09:07
dripping the places where the knife had been according to the experts like the kitchen counter showed patterns left on
00:09:15
the surface by the bloody blade there were some indication that the knife had been laid down in a few places on a
00:09:23
table on the carpet in the family room marks on the floor and rug showed where it had been Tom Beville testified these
00:09:32
findings are inconsistent with dar's story and then you have to wonder why the Intruder would have taken the time
00:09:39
to put the knife down pick it back up again in various spots around the home I find some things troubling with this
00:09:47
quote unquote blood evidence and I'm not meaning to question these experts or really even put together anything that's
00:09:55
just kind of convenient to go along with my own personal Theory but I question one the placement
00:10:04
of this knife you know we do have evidence I don't doubt this evidence that the knife was set down on different
00:10:10
locations throughout the downstairs of that home what I'm questioning is is there a possibility that darly did this
00:10:18
and also did not kill her sons we know she readily admits that she picked up the knife anybody that's listened to the
00:10:26
911 call I hope they would agree with me and hear the amount of chaos going on within a short 5 to 6 minute window mhm
00:10:36
I think that there is a potential maybe small chance but a chance that maybe she
00:10:42
picked it up and then it was moved more than one time by her herself and again doesn't have to mean that she is in fact
00:10:51
guilty correct the other thing that I question too here Captain is look I'm sure this Tom bevel's a great guy uh
00:10:58
Oklahom City police captain he's a owner and teacher at a forensic School his opinion that the knife was
00:11:06
never on the floor in the utility room because he ran these experiments conducted these tests threw it down six
00:11:14
or seven times this is his testimony when we are charging a person with capital murder and we intend as the
00:11:23
state to execute her if we find her to be guilty yeah I would hope that somebody would conduct that test more
00:11:31
than six or seven times it seems a little yeah we're convicting somebody on a six grade science experiment right
00:11:39
right even my science fair experiments had I would run the test more than six or seven
00:11:45
times and so I I question that that what doesn't seem to be something that I'm able to question is the fact that she
00:11:54
says that the Intruder seems to be fleeing he would have been by her own admission carrying the knife at that
00:12:00
time there's no indication that the man was running from the scene I don't have any reason to think
00:12:07
that otherwise that he wouldn't be running it seems like a good idea to get the hell out of there to me if you were
00:12:14
in fact the attacker uh question for you is there blood evidence on the window screen or the window ledge yeah so this
00:12:24
is a little tricky for the window where the Intruder came in or came out of or was staged to have come in or out of I
00:12:36
found a few places that state that there was like a bloodied fingerprint a smudged bloodied fingerprint and there's
00:12:46
a couple of them that were unidentified in the home not a lot I think it's only three and we'll get into that more as we
00:12:54
carry on here but if in fact there was blood on the window sill it would have been in the form of a smudged
00:13:02
fingerprint let's go back and talk about the screen once again my friend because
00:13:07
the screen is an interesting part of this case to me because darly tells us that an intruder must
00:13:17
have cut into this screen opened up the window came through the garage then the utility room walked into the kitchen and
00:13:24
then came into the family room attacked and killed both boys and attempted to kill her before she fights him off wakes
00:13:33
up whatever screams and then he turns and fleas drops the knife and then goes back out that same window in the garage
00:13:41
that he came in the police and the prosecution will tell you that no that darly attacked and killed her sons in
00:13:51
attempt to Stage the scene that she cut the screen one issue I believe against the prosecution in the police's theories
00:14:02
here Captain is that it seems readily agreed upon by everyone that the screen they have evidence to believe that the
00:14:09
screen was cut from the outside and I think that if someone In the Heat of the Moment trying to Stage a scene might not
00:14:17
be clever enough to think that through but her husband went to bed roughly an hour before the murders took place so is
00:14:27
it possible that she went outside and and started staging the scene before she would attack her children I guess that
00:14:35
would be that's certainly a possibility yeah that's a good point you make there because he says that both of them say
00:14:41
that between 12:30 and 1 is when they parted ways they don't know the exact time but between 12:31 they parted ways
00:14:48
he went upstairs to go to bed she starts to fall asleep the call comes into 911 at 2:31 a.m. and and if it's
00:14:59
1:00 then yeah you're right if she was really planning this stuff in advance then she could start to Stage
00:15:07
some things beforehand now the screen covering an open window in the roer's garage was
00:15:14
found to have been cut vertically and horizontally as we said yesterday in a t-shape from the
00:15:21
outside the screen was cut with a sharp implement this is all per the evidence and forensics that we can see that it
00:15:30
was cut using a sharp instrument one thing that's tricky and goes against darley's Case is that law enforcement
00:15:41
state that they believe that another knife a large bread knife with a sharp point that was found in the same Butcher
00:15:49
Block that the murder weapon came from right they believed that this was the knife that was used to cut the tea into
00:15:58
this screen and they say that because on its blade they found microscopic traces
00:16:05
of fiberglass rods and rubber polymer dust indistinguishable in color size and composition from the screen's components
00:16:15
so they can't say 100% that this this microscopic debris if you will yeah came from that screen but they're saying that
00:16:23
there's nothing when you compare the two together there's nothing that distinguish is it from being from
00:16:30
anywhere else than that screen yeah my problem with that though is there's a bunch of different knives in a butcher
00:16:39
box and how many times do you use that knife for something else other than cutting like meat or something you might
00:16:48
use it to open up mail or you might use it as a sometimes I'll use a knife as a screwdriver so I I I don't know I get
00:17:00
what you're saying but I think it's a little more intricate than that I mean when you're
00:17:05
comparing the the debris that would be created from cutting the screen to this microscopic debris that's found on this
00:17:13
one particular knife right not found on any of the other knives in the Block it's definitely damning yeah I to me
00:17:21
it's actually more damning than the murder weapon knife because as you pointed out corre just because it came
00:17:28
from that Butcher Block inside the house does not mean we know whose hand was using it to stab people so the defense
00:17:35
does argue a point here on this knife and saying why okay one you cannot there's no expert saying 100%
00:17:47
that this debris came from that screen we just have nothing in its makeup to declare that it didn't come
00:17:54
from the screen and we didn't find it anywhere else when when looking the argument that
00:18:01
the defense raises and this is a good one I think they're saying look the same brush that you were using to dust for
00:18:11
fingerprints and such on the the window that could have been accessed by an intruder mm is the same brush that you
00:18:22
were using when you were checking all these knives so it stands somewhat of a reasonable EXP ation that there was
00:18:29
carryover yeah you'd think you'd find a little bit of debris on all the knives well and that's the the
00:18:36
prosecution's argument back that's a rebuttal well we only found it on this one knife wouldn't if if that stands to
00:18:42
be true what you're arguing wouldn't we find it on all of them look I don't know I mean does it
00:18:49
matter that if you what order you're checking these knives in with this brush so yeah you should have been more
00:18:56
careful because this it it basically B Al makes your point invalid you're exactly right and if you're going to
00:19:03
bring it up at the trial as evidence against and there's an argument against your argument then expect that argument
00:19:09
to be you know you're bringing this into question yeah if I'm on the jury right and people were going look this is a
00:19:16
damning piece of evidence I'm going you have to throw this evidence out because it makes sense either way
00:19:25
but I think technically by the way the way you're instructed in court to be on the jury if something weighs equally for
00:19:34
innocence or guilt you have to have it go towards innocence well and one thing that you know a lot of people will bring
00:19:41
up in this case is that okay the the wounds the injuries the attack on the boys was enough to kill them to end
00:19:49
their lives that's how severe it was and the injuries to darly who is being accused of their murder well they're not
00:19:58
as severe she survived she didn't have as many wounds they weren't as deep and it goes on and on but this is another
00:20:06
situation where we could spend a whole hour on her injuries I won't waste anyone's time because my general thought
00:20:14
about her injuries is this they marched a lot of quote unquote experts in and out of that courtroom
00:20:22
that said that her injuries were superficial that she did them to ourselves to herself and they were
00:20:28
superficial for every expert that they marched in that said her injuries were minor and superficial the defense
00:20:35
marched in an expert that said she almost died they were severe she could have died she was within 2 millimet of
00:20:42
dying well let me ask you a question what do your eyeballs tell you what my eyeballs tell me
00:20:49
is reviewing some photographs that belong to this case and her injuries that are seen in in a lot
00:20:58
of these photographs one thing that I think the the defense I think the defense screwed
00:21:04
up a little bit in this case and one thing that they screwed up on is I've seen a picture that was taken of her in
00:21:11
her hospital bed where she does not appear to be awake this must be shortly after surgery MH she looks freaking
00:21:18
terrible man like she looks to me like she's knocked out and lucky to be alive from what I've reviewed and
00:21:28
everything I've been told about this case and could find that photograph was not shown to the jurors not presented in
00:21:35
court that day I think it's a powerful photograph what was shown to the jury and shown in court during
00:21:45
the proceedings was what the prosecution presented and these would have been pictures and photographs of her injuries
00:21:53
and they would have been days afterward this would be you know when she came into the police station and when she was
00:22:00
eventually arrested so those ones don't look bad at all but I think the one that
00:22:06
shows to me what I think is the real severity of her injuries is the one where she appears to be knocked out in
00:22:12
that hospital bed yeah I mean I think when I look at her stitches I mean number one word I think is oh that's
00:22:20
nasty yeah that's a real nasty uh but it reminds me a little bit and and do you want to guess what I'm
00:22:29
thinking of a case that we covered I believe it was Chicago uh Lululemon mhm reminds me of that case
00:22:39
where you have a victim supposed victim which is actually the murderer going to create self-inflicted
00:22:49
wounds those wounds were minor these to me not so much two millimeters away from
00:22:58
basically killing yourself very quickly and all the other wounds pretty deep again enough to have stitches on
00:23:09
multiple parts of her body not just on her neck but the neck is probably the worst one of the
00:23:15
bunch yeah but anywhere she has staples it's nasty well and the neck would be if you believe the Intruder
00:23:25
theory if you believe darly that would be the wound that would be the injury the attack portion that the
00:23:33
Intruder is trying to use that would be the the Fatal blow right there the attempt at taking her life yeah and
00:23:42
again her injuries you have experts arguing it both sides well the injuries to her arm are not indicative of
00:23:50
defensive wounds and then another expert tells you they are exactly defensive wounds every case that that we've
00:23:57
reviewed here captain and we're coming up on 500 episodes so we've reviewed uh what two three couple four million yeah
00:24:05
we've we've reviewed quite a bit her the the wounds to her arms they're in the exact spot that I
00:24:13
would think that that's how you defend yourself you put your arms up you put your arms between you and your attacker
00:24:20
M so I don't know how anybody could say oh we can prove that these are not defensive
00:24:26
wounds I'm not saying that they are I'm just saying I don't know how anybody could stand up there and look 12 people
00:24:33
in the eye and say these were not defensive wounds so I don't think the injuries to
00:24:39
her tell us a lot not when you have experts arguing both sides of the coin right again it's like I said if
00:24:46
something leans towards well it it doesn't make her look innocent or guilty then you have to view on the side of
00:24:55
innocent and then they point to the kitchen sink where there's proof that someone had cleaned up around the
00:25:03
kitchen sink cleaned up some blood around the kitchen sink okay that's great it doesn't look good for darly in
00:25:09
my opinion but we have Darren darly and people arriving at the crime scene that are saying we saw her holding towels
00:25:18
well she put a towel on herself and she put a towel on her her son correct and so it's so nobody's disputing that there
00:25:26
there wasn't tals being used right right and I'm I'm just saying it could be another part that's just kind of gotten
00:25:32
lost in there did she clean up I don't think it points to guilt 100% or innocence it certainly doesn't Point
00:25:39
towards innocence either well again I want to go back to what her husband said is when he woke up before she called 911
00:25:47
both boys were alive so if she is guilty of this she was giving the opportunity for both of those kids to say we know
00:25:56
who did it and it was it was Mom yeah that's interesting because the information I have actually it's unclear
00:26:04
if both boys were alive but one was most certainly alive when Darren found the boy and was still clinging to life when
00:26:12
First Responders showed up on the scene and there were doctors that testified to
00:26:18
that boy's injury saying one he couldn't have survived very long after after sustaining those injuries okay so a
00:26:26
matter of minutes is as long as he would be alive that to me actually backs up dar's timeline of the events right she
00:26:38
wakes up after the boys are attacked chases the guy or runs for whatever reason into the kitchen and then very
00:26:45
quickly immediately calls 911 and the police we know are on the scene before the end of the call which is only 5
00:26:52
minutes and 44 seconds long so that actually goes along with dar's timeline and it doesn't have to be something that
00:27:01
she had to make it fit it just is and Darren comes down the steps he's still alive the doctors also testified that
00:27:10
the the boy would have been able to make a noise that's their exact statement I don't know that that means that they
00:27:17
could talk but it seems to me if he could make noises again there's a chance that he could have survived the
00:27:24
paramedics believed that there was a chance they could revive this kid that's their
00:27:29
words as you pointed out this kid could have told us what happened at this attack who attacked him and again I
00:27:36
don't think she has any type of expertise to know like well I stabbed him enough that he's only going to live
00:27:43
for a couple more minutes and he's not going to be able to say my name or he's not going to be able to tell his dad
00:27:49
that his mom killed him yeah she has no expertise on that I don't know I think very few people would and then there's
00:27:58
the sock okay I'm sure there's somebody out there in their car screaming at the at the radio going when are you guys
00:28:04
going to talk about the sock well let's get to the sock right after this quick beer
00:28:11
[Music] break this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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00:30:26
today [Music] welcome back cheers to everybody in the front and everybody in the
00:30:42
back especially the people in the back here we go Captain let's talk about the sock all right the sock evidence and
00:30:50
this is evidence that's found at the crime scene the problem is this sock is not found inside the roer home it's not
00:30:59
even found on the root tier property it's found two houses away near a trash can in someone's yard so how do we know
00:31:11
that this sock actually belongs to this case that it's important to this case well it had blood on it and it had a
00:31:20
some of both of the boys blood was found on this sock now there was no blood found any where else around this sock
00:31:30
you know there wasn't a puddle of blood blood drippings nothing of that just this bloodied sock that has it's not
00:31:37
even a whole lot of blood on the sock itself but think about the location of where it was found it's found two homes
00:31:45
away near the trash can on someone else's property the thing with this sock and with the blood evidence on the sock
00:31:54
to me this is the one thing that strongly points toward darly being innocent in this case the murder weapon
00:32:06
the knife bread knife that may or may not have been used on the screen mhm the cut screen
00:32:13
itself some of the blood evidence found inside the home dar's injuries compared to the boy injuries I think anyone could
00:32:22
make a strong argument for or against using I any of that evidence for or against darly and I say that with a lot
00:32:32
of confidence because that's what happened at the trial right the cleaning of the sink is a little more damning
00:32:39
against darly again I don't think so because she brought up the fact that she had these towels that she used to try to
00:32:48
help her kid out and help herself out right and it's one of those situations though I wish that there were someone to
00:32:57
have seen her doing this or at the very least she says that she cleaned up around the sink for whatever reason we
00:33:04
don't have that and that's why I I call that more into question but the whole weight of everything I really look at
00:33:13
this sock as being completely against darly being guilty and I say that because there is in fact blood from both
00:33:20
of the the deceased victims found on this sock and then we cross reference that with the information that we
00:33:29
receive from the doctors at trial that state that the the boy that died in the presence of Darren and in the presence
00:33:40
of First Responders who if he would have been revived could have told us what exactly
00:33:45
went down that mommy attacked me or a strange man attacked me or whatever the amount of time that it would have taken
00:33:53
for him to expire does not leave a lot of room for someone to Stage a ton of things at this
00:34:01
crime scene right the sock in particular because the sock is a big problem for a
00:34:06
lot of things one whoever placed it where it was found and it was found by crime scene text so
00:34:14
this is not something that just magically appeared later but whoever placed it where it was found or dropped
00:34:20
it where it was found no one was seen so darly wasn't seen running outside of the
00:34:26
home and then coming back into the home there was no strange man unidentified man who was seen dropping it or in the
00:34:34
area of where it was dropped but again it has both of the children's blood on it so it was there when the the the boy
00:34:42
that we know only had a short window from Attack to death it was there after he was attacked it was inside the roer
00:34:51
home after the attack yeah and then found outside and the other thing too if if one were to Stage a crime scene uhuh
00:34:59
it seems like a really bizarre place to place this random bloody sock if you wanted to point and make
00:35:09
evidence and create evidence that there was an intruder that fled the scene you would drop this sock in the roer's
00:35:18
backyard in your own backyard or at the bottom of your driveway somewhere where you you would want the crime scene text
00:35:25
to find it now they did find it but again it was several homes away it's not in a spot that's going to be super
00:35:33
obvious for the crime text to find this and what about DNA why didn't they test this sock for DNA well they they did
00:35:41
find some DNA and they found dar's D DNA inside the sock but they didn't find any
00:35:47
other DNA on the sock from my no they did not find any other DNA on the sock now there are future tests that are
00:35:55
scheduled for some some of the items at the home but all the tests that have been conducted on I love this this I I
00:36:03
love our justice system there's future test on a crime that happened in 1996 well but that's I mean that's not
00:36:12
like something like oh we have this we're just waiting around to do it it's it's at the appeals of dar's Defense oh
00:36:20
that these tests were granted her DNA is found I don't know that that proves again that doesn't prove anything to me
00:36:27
it just proves to me that at some point and probably recently she may have worn that sock and
00:36:34
looking at this utility room is it also is it a laundry room I'm just wondering how this killer got the sock okay so it
00:36:44
does look to me like there's a I only have a drawing of the ground level of the road to your home like a floor
00:36:55
plan and so there are two rectangle square shaped items in the utility room which could be washery washer and dryer
00:37:04
that would make the most sense and according to darly and Darren they kept a basket of items that were used as Rags
00:37:17
so like this sock it's it's mate you know they you buy them in pairs right its mate was never found not inside the
00:37:26
home outside the home I lost my meate years ago so that to me stands to go along with this thought that it's a it's
00:37:34
now become a rag at its you know at this point in its sock life YOLO and so yes the they kept a basket of rags and items
00:37:47
that were to be used as Rags inside this utility room so again if a criminal entered the home through that window in
00:37:56
the garage they would come in the only room that it's accessible to the home is then the utility room they could have
00:38:04
quickly just grabbed that sock and placed it over their hand or or or used it in some manner to try to you
00:38:14
know go in and then pick up a knife with it the thing is if if your criminal if your Intruder is in fact a sophisticated
00:38:22
criminal he's got gloves on his hands there's a good strong chance he's not leaving his DNA inside that sock right
00:38:31
again the issue becomes how does that sock get to where it is and darly remains inside the home calling
00:38:37
911 all at the same time that that doesn't leave a whole lot of time for darly to Stage all of these items yes
00:38:45
there's some time for her to Stage some of them I will admit that I don't see enough time to Stage all of these items
00:38:52
especially the sock yeah I agree and that was something that was Pres presented at the trial and something
00:38:58
that the prosecution they just didn't address because they didn't have an answer for
00:39:03
it mhm well again to it's 1996 so DNA testing and our our knowledge of DNA was not the greatest so
00:39:16
I'm certain even if there was even traces of touch DNA that they wouldn't have been able to
00:39:23
get that off the sock that seems correct to me the again they do have dar's DNA from that and of course they have both
00:39:31
boys because they have blood evidence from both boys on that sock as well I do want to point out something too that I
00:39:40
failed to mention when discussing the screen so the windows in this garage you would only see these windows
00:39:48
from the back of the home okay you wouldn't see these out front and these windows only look to be about eight
00:39:56
Maybe 9 in off of the ground off of concrete I'm pointing that out because if I were an intruder if I were looking
00:40:05
for a way into this home I have to say captain that's the same window I would pick I would pick one of these two
00:40:12
windows in that location yeah makes the most sense and it would not be hard to climb in and out of this window you
00:40:19
would slice the screen open up the window put your foot your left foot or right foot in and then you bend down and
00:40:27
boom you're in the garage well and if you're a neighbor you could sneak into their garage when their garage door was
00:40:33
open and unlock those windows well and that's you bring up a fine point there my friend something we mentioned time
00:40:41
and time again in previous episodes uh in particular the Aurora Hammer Slayer episodes make sure your windows are
00:40:48
locked people and then take it a step further like we said in the Aurora case lock the door from your garage to your
00:40:57
home mhm because if there was an intruder in this case Captain that's how they got to into and exited the home in
00:41:07
this case so what we're saying is lock your [ __ ] up lock that [ __ ] up T there
00:41:13
was a vacuum that was also called into evidence and this is because they it was found tipped over and the prosecution in
00:41:22
law enforcement stated that this vacuum was over and they could prove that this was further sign that
00:41:32
someone was staging the scene because underneath the tipped over vacuum they found debris and blood meaning that the
00:41:42
vacuum was tipped over not during the course of a scuffle or someone fleeing the home but it was tipped over
00:41:49
afterwards to make it look like there was a scuffle that the blood was in a location where it could not have been if
00:41:56
if the vacuum was already tipped over yeah but you can bump a vacuum and it it tips
00:42:03
over I don't know if it necessarily proves that somebody was trying to Stage uh a scuffle you know I agree with
00:42:12
you and we don't need to argue this point I'm just pointing out that the their argument was that the blood was in
00:42:18
a location that if the vacuum was already tipped over that the the scuffle was already over at that point the M the
00:42:25
attack at already happened the stabbings had already happened right we don't need
00:42:29
to argue it any further because this actually was later proved to have been moved by crime scene
00:42:37
tax so great right so what you're saying is that now we have proof that crime scene texts messed with the crime scene
00:42:49
yeah and and not a positive way no they either bumped it over or or moved it during the course of of their work there
00:42:58
I mean they were they crime scene techs were at this scene for nine straight hours after arriving on the scene and
00:43:07
probably several visits after that as well so this is a lot of work a lot of moving pieces and parts I'm pointing
00:43:14
this out to go well if we can prove that this is the case with the vacuum what does it say to us about the
00:43:22
sink area and some of the other things that we call question inside the home what we can't what I think we cannot
00:43:29
call into question is this sock I think this sock it's to me it's not 100% definitive proof that that darly is
00:43:37
Innocent but to me it it strongly suggests given the timeline that we have to work within we we cannot change the
00:43:46
timeline it is what it is those are the hardcore facts of this case there does not seem to me to be enough time to kill
00:43:56
both children administer my own injuries stage all these things get the sock two doors down outside without
00:44:07
being seen cut the screen alarm and awake my husband call 911 and then the First
00:44:14
Responders are on the scene before the 911 call is over well again I think they came to a conclusion way too early and I
00:44:22
think if if they would have started questioning people in that neighborhood they would have found somebody that knew
00:44:28
a little bit too much about Darling right a little bit too much liked her a little bit too much knew a little bit
00:44:35
too much about her schedule knew a little bit too much about her family cuz it seems to it seems to me if you're
00:44:41
finding this sock yes you could park a car far away and you're going to I guess run to your car to get away
00:44:50
but with the sock being found if it's an intruder I would say that points more to
00:44:57
somebody that lives in the neighborhood could be I just think that if it were somebody that had good knowledge of the
00:45:03
victim and using victimology it seems like there would have been a more optimal time to to plan your attack
00:45:10
that's that's true that's true I mean you know that there that Darren lives there if you know a good deal about
00:45:16
darly you just and from everything we see they're operating with one vehicle at this time at this stage in their
00:45:23
lives you yeah that's interesting fact too because it's like I wonder what you could see into the garage from those
00:45:32
outside windows well the car was parked out front in the driveway right but either way you'd be able to see if
00:45:38
there's a second car correct and if you didn't know much about them and you just
00:45:42
saw one car you the perpetrator might assumed oh well I see her laying down on the couch and there's only one car here
00:45:52
her husband must be at work or he you know he must work third shift I'm just saying if the perpetrator didn't know
00:45:59
much about her yeah that's a good call and then I take it a step further if in fact it were a stranger that that broke
00:46:06
into the home stranger danger I keep going back to the idea captain that somebody could have seen her the vantage
00:46:13
point would not have been great but somebody could have seen her through one of the windows in the family room
00:46:19
sleeping on the couch and maybe not have seen the two boys sleeping on the floor
00:46:25
and even with the chance of a husband being upstairs some of these guys will take
00:46:33
that risk right you go in your I your goal would be to sneak in undetected to the point where maybe she doesn't wake
00:46:43
up until you already have hands on her till you're already threatening her because we've seen this with the uh
00:46:50
Golden State killer with with uh serial rapist and time and time again the idea is they're they're not waking
00:46:58
up until until the point where the threat is already there so you can silence them so that they're silenced
00:47:04
and then whomever's upstairs is not a key factor in in the course of your attack what becomes really screwed up
00:47:12
real quickly if you are an intruder is stumbling upon these these kids sleeping on the floor and Damon was actually in a
00:47:21
position which doesn't make a whole lot of sense of why he would be sleeping there
00:47:26
uh where he was found but if he was in fact sleeping in the position where he was later
00:47:32
found there's a chance that if that if those rooms were dark enough remember dar's words in her written statement is
00:47:40
that she flipped on a couple of lights after this attack and that the TV was turned off at some point mhm there's a
00:47:48
chance that the Intruder may not have known that that child was sleeping on that floor until he stepped on them or
00:47:55
stumbled over them yeah by this point gloved hands he's come in he's put the put the sock over his gloved hand pulled
00:48:04
a knife out of the Butcher Block that's on the counter in the kitchen which he would have walked past that through the
00:48:10
kitchen anyway on his way into the living room now the short of it here Captain we won't continue along too much
00:48:17
on this trial but the short of it is that on January 6th 1997 this is just 2 days after dar's 27th birthday that's
00:48:26
when the trial began on February 1st darly was convicted of murdering Damon she was only charged with well only
00:48:33
taken to trial for the one murder the thought being a couple of reasons why he was young enough that it was an
00:48:42
automatic capital murder case right they were getting the death penalty if they got a conviction in that case and if
00:48:51
they were to lose that case there's a good chance that at a later date they would have charged
00:48:56
she was charged with both murders but actually taken her to trial for the murder of Devon uh 3 days later she was
00:49:02
sentenced to death by lethal injection by the state of Texas now we talked a lot about motive what would be the
00:49:10
possible motive well if she were in fact the killer of these two children the state points to a few different things
00:49:18
as being possible motive one depression that she was depressed two that the family was having money problems again
00:49:25
the money problems are certainly in dispute for everybody that says they were having money problems there's also
00:49:30
evidence that they weren't having money problems and we'll Circle back to that and then the other one was that she was
00:49:36
unhappy in life and did not want to be married anymore did not want to be a mother anymore the money problem thing
00:49:44
is certainly a weird one here because if you look at the life insurance policies
00:49:49
on the members of the roer family they did not have a whole lot of insurance on on the two murdered boys mhm they didn't
00:49:59
even have enough to cover their funerals right so so they went if if money was a
00:50:04
problem and she's killing to get out of that problem well they they became more in debt because of the murders right
00:50:12
from my from what I could find here Captain it was $5,000 on each child and they spent approximately $144,000 total
00:50:21
on the funeral services now if money is what darly was seeking there was a huge life insurance
00:50:31
policy on Darren why not just kill him yeah the husband is big money I mean we're
00:50:37
talking $5,000 a kid compared to it was like $250,000 life insurance on Darren it is
00:50:46
my belief captain that in large part darly roer was convicted not so much on the evidence
00:50:54
because I think we we've done a good job of pointing out that a lot of the evidence could be argued either way for
00:51:00
innocence or guilty however one thing that really stood out was this silly string incident okay so darly and her
00:51:10
whole family participated in a birthday party for Devon this was days after he was killed they were doing their best to
00:51:19
mark this special occasion with joy instead of sadness and but hold on a second the this doesn't make sense to me
00:51:27
maybe it's cuz I don't have my own biological kids but if my kid died or my kid was
00:51:36
murdered I don't think I would go to his grave site and celebrate his birthday I
00:51:42
think I would you could maybe do something at home you know to think about him and maybe even have a cake
00:51:48
there or something but but to go to the grave site I don't know I guess that's a
00:51:53
little strange but that that's just my thoughts I agree with you and I bet you if darly were here with us today she
00:52:01
would agree with you as well because I think I found her having a statement somewhere at a much later date that says
00:52:09
you know looking back it might have been a bad idea but she says look my my son was turning seven we would already
00:52:15
planned some of his birthday before he was killed and he was very much looking forward to being seven and we wanted to
00:52:23
have some kind of celebration for him some kind of birthday party for him now in dar's defense it was her sister's
00:52:32
idea uh for portions of this event it wasn't just her idea but the reason why we're discussing this is because the
00:52:43
police department took video of this event okay and they showed it over and over again to the jury well what was the
00:52:52
jury seeing they were seeing darly smiling laughing having a good time shooting Silly String all around
00:53:03
Devon's and Damon's grave yeah she looks like she's not even out a grave she looks happy in the video we've you know
00:53:10
anybody familiar with this case has seen this video she looks as if her kids have
00:53:15
not just recently been murdered so they showed this video at the trial and I know of at least one juror that says
00:53:24
that this video is what sealed the deal for him that she was guilty of killing these boys I for the life of me cannot
00:53:35
figure out what the hell the defense was thinking Captain duh but what happened here is the prosecution actually had a
00:53:44
video that was hours long it was hours long the second half of the video shows a whole bunch of happy people roer
00:53:52
family and friends happy celebrating this birthday party the first half of the video shows a very sad
00:54:03
gravide service and Gathering of these friends and family where darly is crying I mean crying out loud it's not
00:54:15
just weeping silently to herself and we're talking almost 2 hours of crying and praying and crying
00:54:24
and praying together with all these other people that portion of course the prosecution's not going to show and I've
00:54:30
seen some people that say that's unfair that the prosecution didn't show that portion they want to win the case yeah
00:54:37
their job they didn't show up to lose yeah their job is to get a conviction yeah you think you think Michael Jordan
00:54:42
shows up and goes you know what let's spot the other team 30 points let's just tie my hand be I'm the best yeah I'm the
00:54:48
best spot him 30 points give him a shot well I mean OJ's prosecutors did this you know well the only thing that the
00:54:58
prosecution has to do legally is say to the court look this this videotape that we have this we consider this to be
00:55:06
evidence can will you allow us to submit it as evidence yes we will okay well then that means everything from start to
00:55:12
finish on that that cassette is evidence and their only job at that point is to turn it over to the defense and say
00:55:21
we've seen it all you should see it all as well and then you can decide side defense what portions of the video you
00:55:27
want to use in your defense of your client but this stuff I hate and I hate arguing about this stuff when people
00:55:34
will say to you well look uh she shouldn't have been smiling at their grave site that's proof that she's
00:55:42
guilty we don't know how you don't know how you'd react to these things just like the 911 call I don't know how I'd
00:55:50
react uh to seeing my kids and puddles of blood would I be even able to talk would I even be able to call
00:55:58
911 I I I don't know so I think these times where people want to point this as some kind of evidence look I think it
00:56:08
makes her look bad and that's probably one of the reasons she got convicted but it's not evidence it's not evidence but
00:56:16
again the defense had access to this and I will read you what happened and what went down at the trial the defense
00:56:23
decided that they did not need to insist that the remainder of the Silly String video be shown that means after the
00:56:30
Silly String portion was shown where everybody's laughing and having a good time and darly looks like a horrible mom
00:56:36
who's not remorseful or regretful or in mourning at all after that's shown the defense made a conscious decision to not
00:56:45
show the other portion not showing the long terribly sad prayer service and memorial for the two boys this in my
00:56:54
opinion was an an orous mistake after the trial juror Charles Sanford said in an affidavit that quote had we been
00:57:03
shown this other tape so that we had been able to see the whole picture of what happened that day I believe I would
00:57:12
not have voted to convict Mrs roer wow take this a step further this was a big reason to find
00:57:22
her guilty from these jurors this was something that when they were back behind the scenes when they're
00:57:28
deliberating when they're when they're when they're trying to come to their conclusion guilty or innocent they
00:57:34
played that Silly String video I have seen that they played it five six seven maybe a dozen times yeah
00:57:43
behind closed doors not inside the courtroom just where the 12 of them could view it and watched it over and
00:57:50
over and over again and I'm sure every single time they hit play they became a little more convinced At This Woman's
00:57:58
guilt so I think this was a huge mistake on the part of the defense well yeah but
00:58:04
it's also as far as public opinion goes because we know that sometimes the the hands of Justice move very slowly but if
00:58:12
she gets convicted because of this I think one of the reasons by having this shown also to the public like on news
00:58:21
channels and stuff like that they go look at this monster look at this woman she she must be
00:58:27
responsible we got a conviction and she must be responsible and that's why I think a I think this clip itself is the
00:58:35
reason why there hasn't been this crazy movement to I mean there has been a movement but a crazy overwhelming amount
00:58:43
of people that say this doesn't make any sense why she is convicted we also referenced earlier Captain some
00:58:50
unidentified fingerprints there were some unidentified prints in the house they have never to this day been
00:58:58
identified there were prints found on the garage window which hous the slashed screen the exact location the base of
00:59:07
the window this would be where you would think that the Intruder or maybe even darly herself trying to Stage the scene
00:59:14
would have touched right it's been stated that these fingerprints do not do not belong to darly Darren or law
00:59:23
enforcement officials investigating the case also a fingerprint found in blood on the coffee table was too smudged to
00:59:32
identify we have one expert that says that it is his opinion that the this fingerprint appeared to belong to a
00:59:41
child the defense put forth a witness that said that it could be that of an adult another bloody fingerprint found
00:59:50
on the door out to the garage from the utility room to the garage gar was too smeared to be useful at all so someone
00:59:59
with bloody hands touched the coffee table near the boys and the door handle to the garage and someone touched the
01:00:07
garage window whose fingerprints are these we don't we can't match them to anybody known to be inside that home
01:00:17
that night yeah I do want to point out something too A lot of times when you have smudged fingerprints
01:00:25
and look I don't know the size of this and I'm I'm guessing that's what this expert's saying well it probably
01:00:29
belonged to one of the boys that was may have been a smaller fingerprint again an
01:00:33
expert saying well it could have belonged to an adult but smudged fingerprints that are found in blood
01:00:39
they're usually smudged and have no actual fingerprint because the person that left
01:00:45
that smudge was wearing gloves that it comes from a gloved hand yeah or if he's wearing one glove and it's glittered
01:00:53
then we know who it is and I do want to point out here captain and I'm not saying that these persons make better
01:01:01
suspects than darly I'm not saying that uh I'm just saying that I'm pointing out
01:01:06
that there are other avenues that could have been taken with this investigation there are other things to have been
01:01:11
considered here she wasn't the Standalone suspect in my mind one we have a black car that was seen casing
01:01:20
the roers neighborhood street and even some witnesses say home this would have been weeks before the attack so we have
01:01:27
multiple eyewitnesses multiple people living in the neighborhood that they say they spotted at one time during the
01:01:34
nighttime weeks before the attack a suspicious black vehicle next we have this one I think is really alarming we
01:01:42
have two men that try to enter a home in the same neighborhood in the 1:00 a.m. hour that same night oh my God yeah so
01:01:52
some woman she's saying that she fell asleep on her couch she was either reading or watching TV she falls asleep
01:02:00
on her couch she hears someone attempting to open her front door you know just using the handle and so she
01:02:07
got up and looked through the peephole and said that she saw two men standing on her front porch who then fled once
01:02:15
they couldn't get in the door that's the same night and we talked about what time
01:02:20
Darren and darly say that they went to sleep that's in the same time frame how can you lose this case well
01:02:31
and here's one that I can Name by name and I don't think that they would have there would have been hold on a second
01:02:37
cuz we also don't know the person that was casing their house weeks earlier we we possibly casing the home
01:02:45
possibly casing their house weeks earlier the neighborhood the street it's not that hard to go okay but we also
01:02:50
have these two guys that were trying to break into another house it's not too far to I'm just saying like they always
01:02:58
say to win a defense or to win a case you just have to have a better story or a more logical story or present enough
01:03:07
doubt yeah I mean you could say well maybe the guys that broke into that house were the same people casing their
01:03:14
house earlier or maybe they weren't but maybe wer tried another house right and that means there's multiple people
01:03:21
trying to break into houses in this area what I find high alarming about that witness's uh
01:03:28
statements is think about it she's saying I was asleep on my couch there's I'm not saying this happened but is
01:03:35
there a chance that one or both of those guys looked through a window saw this woman by herself sleeping on a couch and
01:03:40
said H let's try the door and see if it opens yeah this is this is our house this is our victim it's not too damn
01:03:47
hard to believe that they went throughout you know went to different parts of the neighborhood and continued
01:03:53
to look in Windows and maybe spotted another young attractive woman sleeping on her couch and decided you know what
01:04:00
yeah the door doesn't work and we may have woke the person up at the last one let's see if we can find a window that's
01:04:07
open or a window that's unlocked and also they wouldn't be that afraid of if there is a Mayo home because there's two
01:04:15
of us right and again the chance that you could silence your potential victim before they could alarm anybody that you
01:04:23
are even in the home here's one and again police and investigators would have had no way of
01:04:31
knowing this individual's name at the time we know this guy and actually when I was reviewing this case here Captain
01:04:38
this is bizarre to me because I thought well when I first looked into it I thought This Woman's guilty as hell and
01:04:46
as I started looking more and more into it I started thinking uh maybe she didn't do it well if she didn't do it
01:04:51
then somebody else did is there an alternative yeah yeah and the first person that jumped to my mind was
01:04:58
Michael Jackson Tommy Lynn cells he is a serial killer he was active at the time
01:05:03
he was active as far as we know from 1980 to the year 2000 he was active in the states of Missouri New York Illinois
01:05:13
Texas and Kentucky probably others as well he earned the nickname Coast to Coast or the cross country killer yeah
01:05:21
yeah I know this guy um but the reason why he jumped to mind to me was he actually committed crimes that were very
01:05:29
similar to this case and as we already pointed out he committed murders in the state of Texas so one one to just give
01:05:39
you a little taste of it because I don't want to go too far into Tommy lyells because there would be a lot to talk
01:05:44
about but just to prove that he did similar types of crimes in 2004 Tommy lenells confessed that on October 13th
01:05:55
1997 he broke into a home took a knife from a butcher block in the kitchen stabbed a little boy to death and
01:06:03
scuffled with a woman that he found inside the residence this was Julie Ray Harper and her son Joel Harper Joel was
01:06:13
killed Julie survived the attack and she was later charged with Joel's murder and
01:06:20
convicted of killing her son then years later Tommy Lind cells confesses to this attack on this boy but
01:06:29
he only has one conviction and they say what 22 suspected murders yeah the words
01:06:35
that we have are retired Texas Ranger John Allen said quote we did confirm 22 murders I know there's more I know
01:06:43
there's a lot more obviously we won't ever know he's been executed he was executed by the state of Texas well got
01:06:52
him well real quick too if the this photo is correct of one of his victims that I think got
01:06:59
away this younger victim it looks like her the one of her wounds is in the exact same spot on the body as the neck
01:07:11
wound on Darlene yeah so that's why I mean his attacks were very similar he was known to break into a home and then
01:07:21
he would often kill as many people as he could but in most cases he only ended up
01:07:26
killing the children and would attack somebody else or scuffle with them fight with them attempt to kill them and flee
01:07:32
the scene and he did this in multiple States what a [ __ ] princess a couple of other possibilities and here's one that
01:07:39
seems a little obvious and and we just didn't get to it but would be Darren roer yeah now I do want to point out and
01:07:48
I'm not going to go too far down this road because we have darly who is said from day one and still to this day even
01:07:56
after they have scheduled her her her date of execution has not been scheduled but she's been that's her
01:08:03
punishment she said all along all this time Darren was not the guy that I saw that night Darren could never have done
01:08:10
this on the reverse Darren has always said that he never believed darly killed the kids yeah he stood by her he still
01:08:18
stands by her to this day well and I know there's a camp of people that believe it's possible that they're both
01:08:24
responsible and they're both covering for each other I just don't see the evidence to say that he was involved at
01:08:32
all I find it hard to believe that darly would stand by him all these years after
01:08:38
she's been sentenced to be executed right at some point you walk away from that and you say all right this guy was
01:08:45
involved as well there are several other things here too captain at some point darly said that she suspected one or
01:08:52
possibly even two men that lived in her neighborhood I don't know the details of
01:08:56
that but that's something she has said over the years I don't know who these men are why she would suspect them skip
01:09:04
hollandsworth one of my favorite True Crime writers that writes for Texas monthly he referenced something that he
01:09:10
had seen elsewhere that at one time there was some suspicion surrounding a local police officer's son um I'm
01:09:18
guessing this would be a grown man son and then also one thing that is brought up in this case and it's kind of an
01:09:26
aside I couldn't find any real information on it but it was super bizarre to to find out was that there
01:09:34
was an active serial rapist that was active in the Greater Dallas area at the time of these murders again like we said
01:09:44
the the most logical motive for us if it's an intruder would be sexual sexual would be a stranger attack would be my
01:09:55
my opinion for for the most part but one thing that I found interesting about this serial rapist that's referenced in
01:10:02
this story again couldn't find information if this rapist ever escalated to murder or committed murders
01:10:09
in the course of his other crimes I couldn't find if the the person was ever caught but one thing that they did state
01:10:17
is that this serial rapist at the time was known to use items found inside the victim home during his
01:10:26
attack the sock the knife that's what we have here in darley's case well no and also like you
01:10:34
said this um seral rapist that's in the area could have been these two men that the eyewitness saw those that night it
01:10:43
could have been the black car that people saw uh in the neighborhood they all could be connected and personally if
01:10:52
you if you wanted to sit down and asked the colonel what do you think happened here look this might piss off a lot of
01:11:00
people I don't know but I actually lean toward her being better to be pissed off
01:11:05
than pissed on I lean toward her being innocent I'm not 100% convinced either way I'm putting a lot of weight into
01:11:15
other people's thoughts and theories one being the juror that we already referenced and talked about saying that
01:11:23
I think this could have gone the other way had we had more information and seen this other video I also take a lot of
01:11:30
stock and put a lot of stock into Darren roer himself standing by and saying that
01:11:36
she's innocent all these years again it's the behavior of this woman there were some people that questioned her
01:11:44
behavior and there were other people that said she was like the the greatest Mom you know she would she loved these
01:11:50
kids she would do anything for her children yeah and I don't see a history there I don't see a History of Violence
01:11:58
there's nobody that's come forward that said hey there was bruises on these kids
01:12:03
all the time or that she was a violent person or an angry person again there's there seemed to be no mention of a fight
01:12:12
that night between even her and her husband and also I think if she had any of those traits or if she had anything
01:12:20
that would trigger her husband to not believe her I don't think he would believe her
01:12:27
and I don't think he would stand by her because you you just murdered two of my kids I could see why they came up with
01:12:33
the theory but I think this is a a situation where law enforcement came up with the theory and then they try to put
01:12:39
the pieces we'll make them work we'll we'll make the pieces fit again that's the prosecution's job to get the
01:12:47
conviction it's the defense to obviously get her acquitted I don't don't think she should have been maybe
01:12:56
you charge her maybe there's enough to charge her I don't think there's enough to convict her so whether you think that
01:13:01
she's innocent or guilty I don't think there's enough to convict her and I think the defense should have had an
01:13:09
easy day in court of Defending any piece of evidence thrown at her and I'm also putting a lot of stock into this next
01:13:19
bit here captain in 1999 there was a book that came out on this case and it was called Precious Angels a true story
01:13:27
of two slain children and a mother convicted of murder By Barra Davis this book accounts for roer's
01:13:37
Guilt for darly roer's Guilt the author was convinced at the time of writing the
01:13:42
book researching the book and releasing it that darly was 100% guilty Barbara Davis has since changed her mind and now
01:13:51
supports darly roer by donating all of the income from her book to dar's [Music]
01:14:11
family very interesting case one that you could go back and forth on depending on what side you're hearing the evidence
01:14:20
from would like to hear your opinion on this case go to True Crime garage.com and click on the blog and let us know
01:14:29
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01:14:40
but this was in the news you should do an update we probably already have on off the Record that's right join us back
01:14:48
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