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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that is creepy and kooky mysterious and spooky
00:01:51
altogether ooky he is the captain and my favorite Spice Girl was Scary Spice it's
00:01:57
good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
00:02:02
a [Music] friend today we are drinking pumpkin dreamsicle by Breakers Brewing garage
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grade 4 bottle caps of course Captain I could have picked one of many great beers from the great state of Wisconsin
00:02:19
but today is our Halloween show so I chose this delightful IPA milkshake with pumpkins Ghouls and a graveyard on the
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label this is a little hard to describe so I'll leave it to all of you out there
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00:03:24
around grab a chair grab a beer grab your pumpkins grab some candy bars and beer all right let's talk some true
00:03:41
crime Monday just before 1:00 in the morning someone with a 715 area code called 911 there's no mention of anyone
00:03:50
asking for help but according to this log dispatch could hear a lot of yelling it's unclear if whoever called hung up
00:03:58
or if someone else did but the log says quote called number back and was unable to leave a voicemail it goes on to say
00:04:07
voicemail indicates the phone lists to Denise Jamie Claus's mom dispatch apparently tried Denise's phone several
00:04:15
more times but no answer they tried to call the landline but the phone was disconnected they also pinged the phone
00:04:22
to an address the CLA family home when police arrived at 10:04 a.m. they thought it was a suicide attempt police
00:04:30
reported a man was down and that there were multiple rounds spent minutes later they said the door had been kicked in
00:04:37
and that the man who was down had answered the door then at 1:11 two subjects down and just after 3:00 the
00:04:46
call changed from attempted suicide to homicide almost an hour later a juvenile we would later learn is Jamie Claus was
00:04:55
reported missing [Music] all right Captain well we've done this a couple of times where we have a case
00:05:28
planned for an UPC coming show usually we cover a cold case or sometimes a criminal profile but then we have these
00:05:35
cases that are all over the news and we get many requests to cover them kind of as they are unfolding in front of our
00:05:43
eyes hundreds of requests so if you didn't recognize the name Jamie Claus then you've not been paying attention to
00:05:49
the news and I can't say that I blame you if you haven't been paying attention because I too avoid the news Captain
00:05:56
sometimes it leaves me depressed or angry and that's not feeling feelings that I love having that's why I avoid
00:06:02
you well let's get into this case and you heard the trailer there let's go through a general timeline of events and
00:06:09
we'll go through this and then we'll kind of get into some certain points in more detail so on October 15th at
00:06:16
approximately 12:58 a.m. Baron County Sheriff's Department receives a 911 call from 1268 us8 so that's Highway 8 a
00:06:28
residence just outs side of Baron the dispatcher was not able to make contact with the caller on the line now deputies
00:06:35
respond to the home and find two adults dead inside a 13-year-old girl named Jamie Claus is presumed missing at this
00:06:44
time investigators from Baron County the uh Wisconsin division of criminal investigation the FBI and the national
00:06:51
Center for missing and exploited children show up to help at the scene Fitzgerald he's the lead [ __ ] lead
00:07:00
Sheriff there Sheriff Fitzgerald announces that the CLA home was searched by drone and infrared camera but there
00:07:07
were no signs of Jaimie investigators also go to Jaime's School in Baron to interview teachers and classmates for
00:07:15
potential information so what I think we can deduce from this here is that after
00:07:20
arriving on the scene finding two adults dead inside the CLA family home they're
00:07:26
covering their bases and making sure that they presume the 13-year-old daughter who was thought to have been
00:07:31
home with her parents at the time of the attack to be missing but they're going to the school and checking the
00:07:36
neighborhood to confirm that she's not somewhere nearby well this is Sunday night going into Monday morning correct
00:07:43
yeah so at 3:30 p.m. a nationwide Amber Alert is sent out for Jamie Claus she is
00:07:51
described as 5 foot tall 100 lb with blonde or strawberry blonde hair at 600 p.m. an updated press release release
00:07:59
from the sheriff's department identifies the deceased as Jaime's parents which is
00:08:04
56-year-old James Claus and 46-year-old Denise Claus now the next day on the 16th of this month at 11:00 a.m. law
00:08:14
enforcement hold a press conference stating tips have continued to come in and investigators have continued to
00:08:20
investigate however there are currently no suspects residents of Barron and neighboring communities were asked at
00:08:27
this time to be on the lookout in and think about if anyone they know has been acting in a different manner missing
00:08:35
work or school missing appointments changing behaviors or wanting to skip town and if so they are to notify the
00:08:43
Sheriff's Office Sheriff Fitzgerald explains the 91 call 911 call Monday morning saying it was made from a cell
00:08:52
phone now at that time he said his dispatchers weren't able to make contact with anyone on the line but it was
00:08:58
apparent that a disturbance was going on the FBI is and continues to monitor J's
00:09:05
social media accounts for any possible leads and investigators have returned to the home several times to take a second
00:09:12
look at the crime scene to make sure nothing was missed then we have this interesting thing here captain on that
00:09:20
same day we have a possible sighting in Florida the Miami Police Department announced receiving a tip that an
00:09:26
individual who gave the tip believes that they saw Jamie Claus at a gas station Monday afternoon riding in the
00:09:34
back of a black Ford Explorer with W with a Wisconsin license plate of 160- weer this was in the area of Northwest
00:09:46
27th Avenue and 11th Street and here's a news clip witness claims to have seen Jamie Claus inside this black SUV
00:09:54
yesterday afternoon at a Miami Gas Station 1,700 M away from from Jaime's last confirmed sighting Sunday afternoon
00:10:02
in her hometown of Baron Wisconsin you can briefly see a teenage girl sitting in the front passenger seat as a driver
00:10:08
pulled up to a gas pump she doesn't appear to be restrained at the time moments before a man got out of that
00:10:15
same vehicle and walked up to another SUV in a truck to talk with others Miami Police shared the update last night via
00:10:22
social media we are actively researching that tip um but what I'm telling you is
00:10:28
I'm the B of information you can sense frustration from Baron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald today that the claim
00:10:35
got out before confirming it was actually Jamie every tip continues to be followed up on and if it's something
00:10:41
that we need to get out to you we will get that information it will come directly from me and what I like about
00:10:46
what he's saying there is okay we have this report that comes out early we don't know if it's her we haven't
00:10:53
confirmed it but hey anything that's important is going to come out of my mouth at these press conferences yeah
00:10:59
that's uh the head guy in charge Sheriff Fitzgerald of Baron County Wisconsin they talking at the end and like you
00:11:06
said Captain I think that's very smart because he's seeing very early on look first of all description of the area
00:11:13
this is not you know Murder is not a common situation and then on top of that we have two people killed and a
00:11:21
kidnapping that take place right possible kidnapping yes so now we have the sheriff who's recognizing that guess
00:11:28
what information may be coming out from all different angles from all over the place including Florida right where he
00:11:35
sees that and it's going to be social media it could be newspapers it could be TV but what he's stating is if something
00:11:41
real happens you will hear it from me right I might not be the first to report it but I'm going to confirm or or um
00:11:50
clear up the situation before you hear it from me and what's great about what they're doing already is their
00:11:55
involvement with the FBI yes and so so FBI is um kidnapping is an FBI crime as well as taking somebody past state lines
00:12:07
so what I like here is that we have them working together and working from from my perspective working well together
00:12:16
because the sheriff's department have several problems one they have a double homicide to investigate they currently
00:12:22
have no suspects in that double homicide or the believed kidnapping of this 13-year-old girl they have a lot going
00:12:30
on right in their own backyard going to Florida and investigating this eyewitness claim of seeing Jamie clus
00:12:36
with two men is something they're not going to have the manpower to work therefore the FBI gets this tip and the
00:12:44
FBI is the one that's going to look into this and you hear the newscaster who's describing what is seen and what is
00:12:51
shown on surveillance footage that was taken at that gas station and this is pretty clear surveillance footage what
00:12:58
they didn't say was that police were told by the possible eyewitness that two well-dressed men with beards were inside
00:13:06
this vehicle and that these men were reportedly in their 30s and between 5' 7 and 5'9 and 200 to 250 pounds now it was
00:13:16
later that same day that sheriff Fitzgerald says that that the tip that they received from the Miami Police
00:13:22
Department has been investigated and ruled to be quote not credible right he also said that the FBI was the team that
00:13:30
looked into the video and investigated now this caused me some concern early on Captain because my first thought was we
00:13:38
have a license plate number and this license plate number was given by the eyewitness and it usually we don't have
00:13:45
that we get a description of a vehicle right and this one we get a um 160- we so my first thought was if they quickly
00:13:55
say that again I don't think there's a dash in there so 160 w r right okay so if if you look into this my first
00:14:04
thought is if they're saying so quickly that it's not a credible uh sighting then there must be something
00:14:11
very quick that they were able to dismiss this and maybe they talk to the owner and that's why they're so
00:14:17
confident in this dismissal of this sighting yes and my first thought Captain was either that plate number
00:14:24
does not exist or maybe that plate number is on a different vehicle than what is described by the possible
00:14:30
eyewitness I did do a little checking and that plate number does line up with a Ford Explorer a black 2017 Ford
00:14:39
Explorer and we won't go into that anymore than we need to like you said they may have spoke to the owner of this
00:14:46
vehicle the the big question that this raised though too was that her being cited in Florida the thought was maybe
00:14:54
this has to do with sex trafficking there's thousands and thousands of girls missing and their parents aren't dead
00:15:02
their parents weren't shot to death in their homes well what we have here too is the sheriff coming out at the same
00:15:08
time saying that hey we don't think that that was a credible sighting number one
00:15:13
but number two says that there's no clear-cut information that proves that the case has anything to do with sex
00:15:18
trafficking and Fitzgerald also said that there was no information yet now mind you this is the day after yet that
00:15:26
can clearly show that this is an abduction however he continued to reiterate that jimie is missing and in
00:15:32
danger well and they have not released the 911 call that came from Jaime's mother or came from Jaime's mother's
00:15:40
phone they haven't released that and what the speculation is they do believe that Jaimie was home at the time that
00:15:48
the the shootings took place the murders took place all we can speculate is that
00:15:54
they hear something on that call for them to believe that mhm I mean and all they're reporting right now is we
00:16:03
believe she was there yeah so let's get let's go ahead and get into that we'll we'll Veer away from the timeline for
00:16:08
just a second but that's an interesting thing because there is the police constantly saying that we have reason to
00:16:16
believe that Jaime was home at the time of the attack now we did have a neighbor
00:16:22
that came out and said that the police or the sheriff's department may have accidentally leaked some information to
00:16:30
her during the course of their questioning because she states that she was told by the sheriff's department or
00:16:38
whoever she spoke with that they believe jime was heard in the background uh either screaming or yelling for help
00:16:46
right and like we said there was nothing but commotion going on during that 911 call but that's what the neighbor is
00:16:53
stating that that might be their evidence or their reason to believe that jam was home at the time of the attack
00:17:01
on October 17th Sheriff Fitzgerald said autopsies conducted on James and Denise Claus on their bodies determined that
00:17:08
they died from gunshot wounds their deaths were of course ruled as homicides officials believe Jaimie was still at
00:17:17
home as we said at the time of the homicides on the 18th a search party is in action and Jamie Claus is added to
00:17:24
the FBI's top missing persons list I'm this afternoon by local state federal Partners along with our school district
00:17:32
special agent in charge FBI special agent in charge Dustin tale r' Keef the administrator of the Wisconsin
00:17:39
Department of Investigations and Diane Trembley our superintendent of the baron Area School District we want to
00:17:45
encourage people to continue to use our tip line as of 3 p.m. today we've received over 200 tips again that tip
00:17:52
line number is 8581 855 74 4 3879 we will continue to provide credible information from this Podium
00:18:05
through press briefings in our Facebook page there have been tips and information that are being released that
00:18:11
does not come from this Podium that is not credible information the FBI is here to support the investigation and the
00:18:19
community in the safe return of Jamie we are providing a number of resources include investigative technical tactical
00:18:27
and intelligent as well as agents from our child abduction rapid deployment team the FBI
00:18:35
along with our law enforcement Partners is committed to finding Jamie quickly and ask for the Public's help in making
00:18:42
that happen on Monday October 22nd at 4m. the sheriff's department holds another press conference releasing
00:18:50
multiple vehicles of Interest Sheriff Fitzgerald shows three images of two vehicles of interest that were in the
00:18:57
area of the CL home at the time of the incident one of the vehicles was reported as either a
00:19:05
20042 2010 black Acura MDX or a 2006 to 2010 black Ford Edge the other vehicle was reported as a 2008 to 2014 red or
00:19:20
orange in color Dodge Challenger Fitzgerald asks if anyone has seen these vehicles to report them to the tip line
00:19:28
the tip line number which is in today's show notes is 18557442844 seven five yeah Fitzgerald unfortunately
00:19:47
he he makes the number a little confusing in that press conference or the press release as he's sometime
00:19:54
people they they are troubled if they should put the one before it or or go straight into the area code I always go
00:20:00
one right and then area code so these vehicles what's interesting here Captain is one we should point out that the
00:20:08
black Ford Edge is not the same vehicle that we discussed earlier the the Ford Explorer that was cited they're very
00:20:15
similar though yeah they are similar so I would describe a black Acura MDX or black Ford Edge as a small uh kind of a
00:20:23
compact SUV sporty SUV sporty SUV that's a good good uh answer and then we have the Dodge Challenger which is very much
00:20:32
an American muscle car yeah baby now the reason for giving the range in years is
00:20:38
because they're talking about a specific body style so I would imagine with those
00:20:43
three different models of vehicle that they're stating we can't say if this is a 2004 5 6 7 8 or 9 or 10 but the body
00:20:51
style of the Acura MDX for those years would fit what we saw on camera right so and what do we mean what we saw on
00:21:00
camera well we got to keep in mind here they are saying that these vehicles were
00:21:04
spotted in the area of the CLA home at the time of the incident this is not like they're not saying these vehicles
00:21:11
were in the driveway of the CLA family home well like we saw with the Molly tibet's case a small community comes
00:21:18
together and you have a lot of people that might own a pizza shop or might own a gas station and they're going to turn
00:21:24
over their surveillance to the cops in this case and obviously they don't have license plates for either of these
00:21:30
vehicles but it's probably too far away too far away and what we're also seeing here is they're not perfectly certain of
00:21:38
the color of the Dodge Challenger you know so this would have been at nighttime under the cover of darkness
00:21:44
and this vehicle would have appeared to be red or maybe even orange at times I saw one newspaper article that stated
00:21:52
that the um Sheriff's Department was a bit divided when seeing the footage of these vehic Vehicles where about half of
00:21:59
them swore that it was orange and the other half say no that's a red Dodge Challenger well you got to watch out for
00:22:05
those cops that are color blind yes um but just to be perfectly clear those are three images three descriptions of
00:22:14
vehicles but there are only two vehicles that were cited so the black Acura MDX and the black Ford Edge are very similar
00:22:22
looking Vehicles the next thing that we really need to dive into is this dispatcher call log there's a lot of
00:22:29
discrepancies where the police say well they show up and it's a suicide but then
00:22:34
they think it's a homicide so there's a lot of discrepancies there let's get into that right after this quick peer
00:22:42
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[Music] 2023 Stacy and John Edward Downing says he prays multiple times a day hoping that
00:25:10
Jamie Claus is safe he says all the family can hope for right now is that whoever has her releases her unharmed
00:25:16
Edward Downing says he's lived in manw walk for around 40 years and he says the last time the family saw the claw family
00:25:22
was around 3 months ago for a family wedding and when she disappeared Downing says he didn't want to believe at first
00:25:28
it's been over 48 hours since Claus went missing and he describes Jamie as a shy
00:25:33
but kind person who has friends with everyone she Mets and every time he would see her she'd always have a big
00:25:39
smile on her face very good in school lots of friends in school the kind of person you really
00:25:46
like to know because every time you seen her she had a big smile for you and um you know she'd come up and talk and same
00:25:54
with her M they it was just a very good family very good [Music] family Captain it was early last week I
00:26:12
actually believe it was on October 23rd that the 911 dispatch call log was released by the baron County Sheriff's
00:26:21
department now the 911 call came in the dispatcher heard a disturbance and a lot
00:26:27
of yelling in the background according to Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald nobody spoke directly to the dispatcher the log shows
00:26:36
the 911 call was made from Denise Claus's cell phone when the call was dropped or when it ended the dispatcher
00:26:44
called the number back and was unable to leave a voicemail uh the phone pinged to
00:26:50
the CLA address and three police cars were sent to the address the dispatcher tried calling the cell phone several
00:26:58
more times but did not receive an answer an attempted call to the landline at the
00:27:03
residence uh was made but the phone was disconnected from the time they got the call to the time that they arrived at
00:27:11
the scene do we know how long that was well actually in full disclosure here Captain that's been reported several
00:27:19
different times right okay so I've seen it reported as early as the 911 call came in at
00:27:25
12:53 and as late as 1 a.m. and then I have them arriving on the scene as early as 12:58 and as late as 10:04 a.m. so
00:27:37
this is roughly 4 to 10 minute response time right not bad okay so it according to the call log at 1:03 a.m. they were
00:27:47
advised of a possible suicide attempt requested EMS at that time at 1:04 a.m. advise one mail down multiple rounds
00:27:57
spent at 1:05 a.m. advised the door had been kicked in advised that the male who
00:28:03
is down had answered the door unknown if anyone is missing 107 advised they would
00:28:10
be clearing the house all right so let's just kind of unpack that real quick here
00:28:15
and a lot of this is going to be uh police jargon this is going to be the way that the dispatcher and the police
00:28:22
and the sheriff are used to communicating with each other uh to get to get proper information as quickly as
00:28:28
possible to one well I have faith that the colonel can unpack that jargon for us well the first thing I want to point
00:28:36
out here which is a little confusing because at 103 they're saying they're advising the dispatcher of a possible
00:28:42
suicide attempt they need to request EMS so they're calling for medical services
00:28:47
Emergency Medical Services to arrive on the scene obviously they believe they have someone that is injured dead or in
00:28:54
the process of dying um the problem problem here is they believe it's a suicide attempt my guess I'm going to
00:29:01
have to just to kind of guess here Captain they would find James Claus basically right in front of the front
00:29:10
door uh on the inside of the home right I wonder if there was a window there that maybe they were able to see into
00:29:17
the home and could see that there was a mail down right in front of the door thinking maybe it was a possible suicide
00:29:24
attempt because when they're arriving on the they're probably not hearing anything they're not seeing any anything
00:29:31
inside moving inside of the home all they can see before they've entered the home is that they have a man down near
00:29:37
the front door then they we know that they enter the home and this is when they state that they're advising the
00:29:44
dispatcher that the door has been kicked in and also advising that they believe that the male who is down uh had
00:29:51
answered the door or was near the door and they also State it's unknown at this time if anyone is missing and that they
00:29:59
advise that they would be clearing the house so what does that mean they've not fully entered the home at this point
00:30:05
they've not gone into every room but what they have is they now have the door open they can see that multiple bullets
00:30:12
were fired and that this man is dead in front of the door they're probably shouting in Sheriff's Department
00:30:18
sheriff's department and they're getting no response from anybody inside of the home what we need to think about here is
00:30:26
because a lot of times us as armchair detectives will sit back and look at a crime scene or look at a cold case and
00:30:33
go how the hell did the police not solve that how the hell did the sheriff's department screw this up right look at
00:30:40
the call log they're on the scene at 103 they're advising by 107 that they're going to be clearing the house meaning
00:30:47
they're going in guns drawn and they're going to enter every room of this house 4 minutes after arriving on the scene
00:30:53
they found a dead person door kicked in multiple rounds spent they don't know if
00:30:58
anybody's missing or if anybody else inside of the home is dead or that the Killer is inside the home try to process
00:31:05
that in your mind for a second that a lot of times sheriff and police are arriving on a scene and they don't know
00:31:10
what they're walking into yeah the way this house is laid out it's it's a ranch but the garage is like you go
00:31:20
around like a hill it's inside it's like in the basement but you can drive it might be a split level home it looks to
00:31:27
me like the yard would be quite dark at night as well like it doesn't look to be
00:31:32
a a bright spot on the road let's say it's kind of tucked away back there well we do know that the neighbors heard some
00:31:39
gunshots but it's such a rural area that people are hunting people were shooting
00:31:44
guns all the time so they didn't even they thought that it was a possible uh homeowner shooting at a bear was what
00:31:50
their statement was right I mean well and my point though is you know when you live in an area like that you hear
00:31:57
gunshots and you automatically don't assume the worst right well at 1:08 a.m. they advise that two subjects are down
00:32:06
and unresponsive at 119 requested to have a search team ready to go advise two sub subjects down no gun located at
00:32:18
this time so I think that's where we're going to see a shift in the thought of what they believe may have happened at
00:32:25
the home because if this was a suicide or a murder suicide you would expect to find the gun on one of these people or
00:32:33
at least at the very least somewhere in the home at 138 they requested photos of
00:32:38
the property and shortly after they requested a pull Cam and a drone to help them get some different visuals of the
00:32:45
house and property here's a really weird thing on the call log and I'm not certain exactly what this means Captain
00:32:52
but at 2 a.m. car number 325 which is one of the vehicles on the scene advised the dispatcher that
00:33:02
Cheyenne person's name Cheyenne and jlr were asked to leave as they were driving by multiple
00:33:11
times I I don't neighbors could be neighbors I I looked through the newspaper articles to try to see if
00:33:17
there was any mention of a Cheyenne or jlr if anybody out there comes across the that name or initials email the show
00:33:26
put it on the blog let us know who they are but whoever these people were they were driving past the scene multiple
00:33:32
times and asked to leave again I would I'd chalk it up to nosy neighbors at 2:36 um the type of call changed this is
00:33:39
when it switched from suicidal person/ attempted suicide to a homicide and then about an hour later they entered jimie
00:33:48
Claus as a missing juvenile at 402 they sent a TTY to eaau CLA County reques their assistance with 911 call clean so
00:34:01
Captain you know what this means they're they have the audio from the 911 call and they're looking for somebody to try
00:34:06
to clean it up and decipher what is being said on that call right which that's why I was looking to see if it
00:34:14
was released yet so maybe we could do that ourselves the following be on a lookout for call goes out attention
00:34:21
dispatch reference missing endangered juvenile abducted by stranger subject name Claus Jamie L sex female Race White
00:34:31
date of birth July 13 2005 height 5 foot weight 100 lb eye color green hair color
00:34:38
blonde or strawberry date of last contact 1015 2018 and they do state in this beond the
00:34:47
lookout that the they believe the subject was abducted from her home in Baron Wisconsin uh and she is considered
00:34:55
endangered due to to the unknown status of the suspect and states that they were
00:35:01
unable to issue an amber alert at that time for some reason uh that Amber Alert would go out the the that day but it
00:35:09
would be 3:20 p.m. so fairly quickly they get an Amber out Amber Alert out looking for the missing child and they
00:35:16
are canvasing the local area to interview residents and the neighbor uh Neighbors in the neighborhood one
00:35:23
neighbor told police that they recall hearing two distinct gunshots ring out around 11:53 p.m. on the night of the
00:35:31
crime and that's about an hour earlier then then 911 call would be made sorry yeah roughly an hour earlier
00:35:42
so I question I questioned that time or if that was a misprint in the article that I read but regardless like you said
00:35:49
there is a neighbor telling police and Sheriff that they recall hearing two distinct gunshots but if that is true
00:35:55
then these perpetrators could have spent quite a while in the house they could have the thing here though is I'm
00:36:04
assuming by what's going on here that if Denise we know the call came from Denise
00:36:09
Claus's cell phone right if she was the one in fact making that call I don't know how long it would have taken to to
00:36:17
shoot her I'm I'm sorry there's no nice way of saying this so there was some more information that came out and that
00:36:26
was all stuff that we can kind of deduce from that call but the Simplicity of it
00:36:31
is that the door to the home was kicked in and there's visible bullet holes that
00:36:35
were evident to the police responding and once inside they discovered the body of 56-year-old James Claus and it
00:36:42
appeared to them this is their words as though he was fatally shot while answering the door or possible knock at
00:36:49
the door 46-year-old Denise Claus was found dead in the bathroom it sounds to me like this bathroom I haven't seen a
00:36:57
layout of the home but it sounds like this bathroom is down a hallway somewhere near that entrance to
00:37:04
the home right um and it sounds like she may have barricaded herself inside of this bathroom and attempt to hide from
00:37:13
the attacker at least while she can make the 911 call she could have been also told by her husband hey people are
00:37:20
trying to get in the house hide right now the family dog was left unharmed um and the firearm arm used to kill James
00:37:28
and Denise was not recovered from the scene all right so whatever gun they used and we're assuming at this point
00:37:35
based off the what we're being told is one gun correct not multiple guns and now we
00:37:43
have a dog do we know what kind of dog I don't I don't believe that they've outwardly stated that it was one gun
00:37:50
that killed both individuals right but like you said it say they say the gun right that killed these two has not been
00:37:57
located um I do think it's pretty general knowledge what type of dog this was but I didn't include it in my notes
00:38:06
I know that it's been reported I just wanted to see if it was a dog that somebody could easily take control of or
00:38:13
if it' be a dog that would put up more of a fight or where the location of the dog was right because you know some
00:38:19
people put their dogs up at night this is fairly late you would think that maybe these two were getting ready to go
00:38:24
to bed at some point or were all in bed right maybe they've put their dog up for the night and you know the
00:38:31
attacker or attackers never even saw the dog but heard the Barking coming from you know closed door again it's
00:38:38
confusing because we don't know the layout of the house the just the way I look at the house um let let me pull
00:38:44
that up so you can see that real quick just and I will put this on um all the social media and and the website as well
00:38:53
all right so when I look at this house oh yeah you're right I me it looks like a ranch and then it's where the basement
00:39:00
is a walk out but also you would park instead of it being a full basement half that basement would be dedicated to a
00:39:08
two-car garage I see what you're saying it definitely looks more Ranch on top of
00:39:13
a basement than what I said earlier about it being split level so should we get into some of the theories here
00:39:19
Captain let's do it well a popular Theory early on and may still be to this day depending on who you talk to is that
00:39:27
Jaimie had a boyfriend and was somehow involved with someone who killed her parents and convinced her to run away
00:39:35
with them now obviously friends and family refuse to entertain the idea and although nothing can be ruled out at
00:39:43
this point in time police do believe that Jaimie is not a suspect they have publicly stated that she is not a
00:39:50
suspect and that she was taken against her will well even though this seems like maybe a
00:39:58
unlikely scenario her being also 13 we have seen cases like this in the past yeah we we certainly have there's been
00:40:07
situations where a boyfriend will kill parents or some type of Guardian of a girl or the girls involved in it as well
00:40:16
and then they run off together to another state M um continuing on I don't know I don't know how I feel about that
00:40:25
Captain like that that Theory um I will state this when the news first broke within the first few days I hadn't seen
00:40:33
anybody state that publicly that Jamie could have been involved and there was that little True Crime guy in me that
00:40:42
was saying hey man I've read cases like this before and I it's possible right it's possible um and then that sighting
00:40:50
in Florida I was glad that they discredited that that Florida sighting for several reasons one it looked like
00:40:57
one of two things to me either she was involved in some manner because remember they state that the girl scene in that
00:41:05
black SUV doesn't appear to be restrained in any manner MH so either she was involved or the her capts had
00:41:12
control of her in a sense that they weren't worried about her running off and maybe this next Theory which has
00:41:19
been a very popular one as well maybe because of the location that it hinted towards something like this that and
00:41:26
this is one we've already kind of discussed that Jaimie is still alive but she's in the hands of sex traffickers
00:41:32
right which is still odd to me and and just when you factor in this possibility that the father was opening up the door
00:41:42
and possibly telling his wife Hyde or the wife knew to hide what were they afraid of what were
00:41:49
they involved in who did they know that they would be fearful for their life um and and then the then the question
00:41:58
becomes okay why did you murder these individuals and then why did you take their daughter I will say this and I
00:42:06
understand that um look I'm not I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert in sex trafficking or understanding those
00:42:13
types of crimes that's not what the FBI thinks but what I will state is this that the the times that I have looked
00:42:20
into similar crimes if this was a sex trafficking crime it seems to me like they fit a very similar Mo in a sense
00:42:28
that they usually will wait for the Target to be alone right and they're abducted usually off the streets or in a
00:42:36
public place or maybe from their own home but at a time where nobody else is home this seems very different to me in
00:42:42
a sense that it feels to me like whoever went to that house that night expected somebody to be there right and may have
00:42:51
expected more than just even if they were thinking jimie was there and wanted to take her for any number of reasons
00:42:57
almost like they were expecting that the parents would be there right they obviously were expecting to be met with
00:43:03
some kind of aggression and some kind of uh push back in defense because they were armed right and that's why I
00:43:11
believe the murderer knew them well um maybe didn't know that jimie was going to be there and and
00:43:21
so maybe you have a feud with the mother and father you want them de but then Jamie sees you right and then
00:43:29
you have to take her but maybe you don't want to kill her so that could be a possibility as well well and that's
00:43:37
that's really the core of this case isn't it that we have a situation where the parents are killed jimie is assumed
00:43:45
to have been taken and Alive yeah you would think these two individuals are killed
00:43:53
in Cold Blood like this person not kicked in the door which I actually talked to um um retired police officer
00:44:02
about this case a little bit this week and I was really surprised for them to say n it's
00:44:08
not that hard to kick in the door no it's not it's it's disturbingly easy and that's why you see that you know most of
00:44:16
the objects that are going to prevent people from pushing in your door they're all on the same spot of the door frame
00:44:23
you know they're all right around the door knob it's and if you can get a good amount of
00:44:28
pressure right there in that point you can probably you you don't have to break down the whole door you only have to
00:44:34
break down that little uh 6 in to one foot range of the door itself right and that's why you know it's nice to have
00:44:41
dead bolts that are up higher on your door as well as there's uh I have the ceiling one and the floor one I have the
00:44:48
little floor boot thing whatever you want to call that um and those things are pretty pretty solid man um but the
00:44:57
thing to to me at the core of this case is Jaimie is kept alive Jaimie is alive at the end of that attack but the
00:45:05
parents are not well this is what they believe right and for me there's a reason behind that now it could be any
00:45:13
number of reasons there could be many bad reasons why she was taken and and kept alive or there could be less bad
00:45:22
reasons and what I mean by that is like something you hinted on earlier just saying that maybe they didn't intend to
00:45:28
for her to be there right and for some reason this is a person or persons that didn't intend to kill a child let's keep
00:45:35
in mind she's 13 she's a child yeah and we don't know much about their history or background as of yet because this is
00:45:43
all you know relatively new but we also do know that they were at a family function before and and how many of us
00:45:49
have been at family functions that turn out to create some kind of argument so I'm sure sure that's something that law
00:45:57
enforcement and the FBI is looking into you got to wonder how strong are they looking at their place of employment
00:46:05
because we have a weird situation here too where the two of them worked at the same space you know the same location
00:46:11
they both worked for that Jenny O's turkey uh company right and then so if there was some kind
00:46:19
of fight at work or some kind of argument at work did that carry over and and and that's why they were murdered
00:46:27
again it's a it's also a weird time and we got Sunday going into Monday to me that's just kind of an odd time but
00:46:35
again they're coming from a family function was there something more uh heated that was involved there could
00:46:42
somebody have been waiting and watching the house or are they striking at a point in time where they fully believe
00:46:50
and expect the you know James and Denise to be home because but but in that scenario too that you you would expect
00:46:59
that jimie would be home her parents are home she has to go to school the next day you'd assume that the perpetrator
00:47:06
would know that this 13-year-old girl is going to be home would you think that that we're really kind of looking at two
00:47:14
scenarios I know there's a whole lot of possibilities and theories to go over but really do you think this boils down
00:47:20
to two scenarios one where either jimie might have been the Target or or or or part of the reason for the way that this
00:47:29
went down or two that jimie was unexpected that either jimie was not known about to the offender or or they
00:47:39
didn't expect her to be there for some reason like you said that that is a good possibility where they assume that um
00:47:46
the mother and father are home but they don't even know about Jamie that would be uh that's something I actually
00:47:52
haven't really thought of so I think that's a good point that law enforcement's going to have to look at
00:47:57
as well I did read an article that states that there are 32 registered sex offenders within just three miles of
00:48:05
this home now that's kind of a weird statement because you could take that any number of ways 32 depending on where
00:48:12
you live may seem like a high number may not seem like a high number but in this
00:48:17
area I got to call this a a large number because once you take into account that
00:48:22
the population of the location is only about 3,000 people so that's 32 registered sex offenders in a
00:48:29
concentrated area which is certainly caused for concern yeah I I don't think I would want to live in that area
00:48:36
especially with the 13-year-old daughter if you get on the internet and you start
00:48:40
looking and I shouldn't have laughed when I said that but if you get on everybody everybody gets on the internet
00:48:45
and looks up sex offenders if you look it up you're always I've always been shocked every time like that that
00:48:51
number's higher than I expected there is only well that's what's nice about where
00:48:55
I live I'm kind of a little secluded a little bit a neighborhood that's secluded but uh
00:49:02
one within like I don't know Six Mile m 8 mile radius one and you've put a tracking device on his vehicle
00:49:14
no I don't have any kids so I'm not worried on that level but uh but you know I know what he drives I know where
00:49:22
he lives well according to John Lieberman he's a reporter and former investigator for America's Most Wanted
00:49:29
he states that this community is um meth is the number one public safety issue and the number one drug problem so he
00:49:38
says that he's speculating that they are probably looking at anybody who is attached to the meth community and
00:49:45
seeing if anyone there possibly could be involved well and there was a crime that
00:49:50
we covered hopefully you can remember it but it was um the house was taken over during the day the father was tied up in
00:49:59
the basement yeah uh they went to the bank the Cheshire murders the Chesire murders
00:50:05
yes I lean towards that where it was going to be a maybe a burglary for drugs or there's some involvement with her
00:50:14
parents and these drug dealers or drug addicts mhm they break in they kill the mom and the dad they
00:50:25
see this 13-year-old girl one of them has uh some sexual desires or fantasies or whatever you want to call it some
00:50:34
perversion and says now we're taking this and she's going to be a victim of a different crime yeah and and that crime
00:50:41
in particular there's a what I've always considered a hot debate as to why the family was targeted were they targeted
00:50:49
because they were perceived to be wealthy or were they targeted because the one individual the one offender
00:50:55
murderer rapist saw the 12-year-old girl that he was attracted to and targeted them for that
00:51:02
purpose it's hard to tell I mean based off the pictures of this house and we don't have a bunch of pictures of of
00:51:09
houses surrounding this area so that points out John liberman points out a couple of different options here that
00:51:15
are interesting because one the thought that maybe there was meth involved or somebody attached to the meth community
00:51:23
that is involved in this crime and you said maybe there could have been a beef between one of the parents or both
00:51:27
parents and whoever pulled off this crime or do we have a situation where it's a robbery gone horribly wrong and
00:51:37
this could be right and that's kind of what I was trying to say earlier yeah and this could be a couple different
00:51:44
Avenues you could take from this so first of all the door was kicked in so clearly there's forced entry into the
00:51:49
home or at least we are being told that the door was kicked in so that to me would point to something like a robbery
00:51:58
um the the the things that don't point to something like a robbery is there's no reports of anything of value being
00:52:06
missing from the home there's really no reports of anything at all missing from the home other than Jamie and the dog is
00:52:13
kept alive but again I think we kind of put that to bed didn't we by saying look
00:52:18
it's late at night the dog could have been locked up you know most situations if you kick in a door that do that dog
00:52:25
if there's a dog home will come charging at whatever has kicked in that door and
00:52:29
usually the dog is the first thing to be put down I think we have a situation where maybe the dog was in a location
00:52:37
where it would could do only It could only bark at the noises that the dog was hearing mhm so with the robbery gone
00:52:46
horribly wrong that would take us down two Avenues the first being that they targeted the CLA family or home for some
00:52:53
reason or did they hit the wrong house do we have a situation here where that's a
00:53:00
possibility they were thought they were going after somebody else and they hit the wrong house MH and for whatever
00:53:08
reason they took jimie with them the other thing too that's interesting Captain is there's not a lot
00:53:14
of violent crime in this area uh John Lieberman and I wanted to dive into this more but You' think there'd be more if
00:53:23
there if there's a lot of meth going on in the area well there could be a lot of
00:53:29
crime but he specifically States violent crime right you know so there could be thefts and car break-ins things of that
00:53:36
nature those aren't described as violent crimes but one thing he does mention in
00:53:41
his interview is that there is two unsolved cases in the area and I guess he's lumping these in as violent crimes
00:53:50
one is a murder so of course that would be a violent crime the other other is a missing person's case from
00:53:57
1996 he states that happened in that general area and they're both unsolved as well m i he didn't provide enough
00:54:04
information in the interview for me to go back and find out what those cases were uh or the details of such but then
00:54:12
there's this other weird super weird situation this is not sitting well with me at all oh yeah pumpin pumpkin head
00:54:19
what you're talking about so there was an arrest made over the weekend and that's when usually the and I would jump
00:54:25
out of our chairs and scream got him and we have all kinds of fun with that problem the problem is they arrest this
00:54:32
guy pumpkin head well it look at his P picture and I look he looks like a pumpkin head no he he's a he's a super
00:54:40
creep he's a super super creep super creep super creepy well this thing Captain this dude what's his name can
00:54:50
you pull up his name for me rather than calling him pumpkin head he kind kind of looks like pumpkin head
00:54:57
no he definitely does and he has those weird glasses he almost looks like he tucks to the side of his mou a little
00:55:04
bit well I'll break this down for you the police were fairly quick I say police it's actually the sheriff's
00:55:10
department but the sheriff's department were fairly quick to say that he's not a
00:55:14
suspect in The Disappearance of jimie nor the homicides of her parents so on Saturday was the funeral yeah on
00:55:20
Saturday there was a funeral for both parents on that day is when the house was broken into yeah like in the middle
00:55:27
of the night the super creep comes creeping in the back door apparently he found an unlocked patio door now
00:55:33
somebody had set up motion detecting cameras I believe it was probably the sheriff's department he went into the
00:55:41
home to steal clothing and it sounds what's being reported is that he was stealing underwear of our missing
00:55:48
girl yeah you know most most reports State clothing but there are some that state underwear of the missing girl oh
00:55:56
he's Den not a suspect 5'9 pumpkin head uh stuffed two tank tops a girls dress and two pairs of girls underwear in his
00:56:06
coat pocket so this is 32-year-old Kyle Jen Anis and I'll spell that last name because it's tricky for me looks like
00:56:15
anus j a e n k Dash is that a dash or hyphen what do you call it a n n i s so this
00:56:24
32-year-old super creep was arrested over the weekend and as the captain was saying this was on the same day as the
00:56:31
double funeral and it was also on the same day where they doubled the reward money that's being offered for
00:56:38
information on the case specifically to find 13-year-old Jamie Claus well and and let's hear this he tells authorities
00:56:47
that he was curious about what size Jamie was okay that's a little weird and then he says you know what I didn't know
00:56:56
the family although he worked at the same he worked at the turkey store yeah so I'm wondering
00:57:04
how much of the population in this area work at that Jenny O's because like you and I can go to the store here in
00:57:11
Columbus Ohio and buy Jenny O's turkey like so I don't know how big of a operation that is and there's a chance
00:57:19
maybe he didn't know them but it's quite the coincidence that he has an interest
00:57:24
and 13-year-old girl's underwear he works at the same place or same company at least as the parents and he's Brazen
00:57:32
enough or dumb enough or both I don't know how you want to look at it to go creeping in their
00:57:38
home could this place be on any more of a high alert yeah well you're talking dude you're talking about a a desire for
00:57:46
girls underwear that's so strong that you can't stop yourself from going into a home where two individuals were
00:57:52
murdered a girl was taken and your desire for girls underwear so strong that you go into this location that's on
00:57:59
high alert I to me I I'm telling you I I want some more information as to why this guy
00:58:05
was cleared I yeah yeah yeah pumpkin head has his head so far up his anus I mean and again like you said like
00:58:16
you just said why was he cleared cuz this just seems strange especially on the day that they're having funerals who
00:58:26
was it um a handful of years ago in Ohio there was an individual that broke into a home and he would later claim
00:58:35
that the family came home while he was in the process of burglarizing the home he ends up killing the adults that
00:58:42
startled him and he he abducted a 12 or 13-year-old girl at the time it's Matthew Hoffman is the name of the
00:58:50
offender what's what's weird here is I kind of look at this case the way that I'm looking at the the current state of
00:58:58
this case right now of jimie Claus's case and what I mean by that is if my memory serves me right I think Matthew
00:59:06
Hoffman after he was apprehended he sat pretty damn quiet about what had actually happened for several days MH he
00:59:15
wasn't willing to and they basically caught him red-handed because they found the abducted girl with him so they know
00:59:22
he was guilty right yeah but again this could be this could be law enforcement playing to hand that's what I that's
00:59:28
what I mean could we have this could we have this thir 32-year-old Kyle super creep guy who's sitting there quiet for
00:59:36
now and not willing to fess up to anything and maybe they didn't find anything at his apartment his house his
00:59:43
dwelling wherever M and so they have nothing to tie him to the case but this is an area where there's a lot of
00:59:51
there's land there's out buildings could have some other place that um he does this super creepy stuff
00:59:59
you also have to wonder we mentioned 32 registered sex offenders in the area in that general area you have to wonder
01:00:07
does he fall on that list does his name pop up on that list want to check this out over the weekend mhm the sheriff is
01:00:15
going to say that hey the reward is $50,000 for information on this case and in a Facebook post on Monday he said
01:00:24
more than 2,000 tips poured in this weekend so hopefully this was a case that so many people said hey check this
01:00:33
out and I think it's because we were only getting little bits of information right and I at first it was a missing
01:00:40
girl then then you find out well no not only is she missing but her parents were
01:00:45
murdered probably at the time that she went missing and then you hear this thing about that maybe she's in Miami
01:00:51
Florida and and so it's really really difficult to cover a case that's this new and as things are coming out um and
01:01:00
it's hard to know what direction really to go in because law enforcement is going to keep a lot of this stuff uh
01:01:07
close to their chest and maybe if there is some voice identif some voice identifiers on that
01:01:16
911 tape maybe that would be released at some point you know what you might not even need voice identifiers you might be
01:01:24
able to just decipher who it is based off of the words that are said meaning that if we have if their words were said
01:01:32
if we have gunshots fired they obviously know how many gunshots would have been fired during the course of this if they
01:01:39
hear that number of of shots fired and then hear a voice saying please help or no stop or anything that you would
01:01:48
expect the victim to say and not the perpetrators then you know she was home and she was alive after the the parents
01:01:57
were no longer alive and really the whole thing here is look no good can come of this this is
01:02:04
a tragic horrible horrifying case that has ripped apart a community mhm but there is still time there could still be
01:02:14
time to save this little girl so real quick here Captain Jamie was Jamie is described as being quiet shy and
01:02:22
generous friends and family told the media that the the mother and daughter relationship was extremely close that
01:02:29
she was very close to her mother and the two were inseparable Jamie Claus is described as we said earlier as 5 foot
01:02:36
tall and around 100 lbs she has green eyes and blonde or strawberry blonde hair anybody who sees anything you know
01:02:45
like we talked about that sighting that came up in Florida and even though there's been press releases to state
01:02:51
that it's been discredited I want to take my hat off to whoever made that phone call because they always say if
01:02:57
you see something say something mhm there's never been a better time if you see something damn it say something well
01:03:04
there's a lot of people saying stuff this weekend I mean 2,000 tips come in so hopefully law enforcement is on the
01:03:11
right track any tips sightings or information can be reported to the following number
01:03:17
1855 744 3879 again police do not believe that she has voluntarily run away and instead
01:03:27
believe that she may have been taken against her will again that number is 1 855 744
01:03:36
[Music] 3879 and for all of our old episodes you can check them out exclusively on
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Stitcher just download the the Stitcher app it's free and from episode 1 to episode now they're all free and check
01:04:00
out our new show off the Record available on Stitcher premium it's not that new anymore it's a 27 weeks old
01:04:08
it's 27 weeks young how about a little quick recommended reading before we go Captain
01:04:14
yes sir this week we are recommending operation devil horns the takedown of MS13 in San Francisco this is the story
01:04:24
of a dedicated team of special agents Federal prosecutors and local police who took down more than two dozen violent
01:04:31
criminal Targets in this true story of determination for justice this is a case of Victorious commitment to Public
01:04:39
Safety and taking down ms1 13's criminal Network check that out by going to True
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