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[Music] thank you foreign what we have come to learn so far in our investigation that I'm willing to
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confirm with you today is that honey and Barry Sherman were last seen alive in the evening
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hours of Wednesday December the 13th 2017. neither of the two had communicated with
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friends family or Associates from that time frame until their discovery on Friday December the 15th
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there are no signs a forced entry on all access points to the home honey and Barry Sherman
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were found deceased in the lower level pool area hanging by belts from a poolside railing in a semi-seated
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position on the pool deck they were wearing their clothing We Believe now through the six weeks of
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work review we have sufficient evidence to describe this as a double homicide investigation
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and that both honey and Barry Sherman were in fact targeted we are in the process of attaining or have executed 20
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judicial authorizations and searches legal complexities and some executions have been challenging giving the
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litigious nature of Barry Sherman's businesses in particular the search and seizure of electronics and Barry
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Sherman's workspace at apotex two Residential Properties belonging to the Shermans have been searched
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the primary Sherman residence is a three-story family dwelling of a size warranting six weeks of searching
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forensic review and seizing of evidence this morning we return the residents to the family
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to date close to 150 bulk or packaged items have been seized and are currently being reviewed and forensically analyzed
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a total of 127 witness statements have been compiled this number continues to grow each day
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neighborhood canvases have occurred in the area surrounding the Sherman residence
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these this has included the collection of approximately four terabytes of security video from both commercial and
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residential properties we hope that through today's release that we'll Garner a few more or a significant
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amount of witnesses we have the 348 investigative actions to follow up on we have all of our seized evidence that we
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have yet to review or certainly continue the submissions through the center of forensic Sciences confirm with our
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expert Partners in the field I mean it's it's endless foreign [Music] Barry Sherman was one of the wealthiest
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men in the world before his death in 2017. Barry was born Bernard Charles Sherman in 1942 but to tell you the
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complete story of Barry's life and death we need to go back in time and first talk about Barry's Uncle Louis Lloyd
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winter who was born in Toronto in 1924. he studied biochemistry at the University of Toronto and after
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graduating with a master's degree he borrowed ten thousand dollars from his father to open his first company in the
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family's garage there he would process blood work and pregnancy test for local medical offices and his business
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skyrocketed quickly now Lewis also saw a need he knew that the prescription drugs
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well they were way too expensive and many people could not afford them at the time so winter started a generic
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Pharmaceuticals Company by 1959 he had to purchase a whole building for his operations and created what was then
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called the Empire Laboratories Limited by 1964 it was Canada's largest pharmaceutical company Winter's life was
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cut short at the young age of 41 when he had a sudden aneurysm now 17 days later
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his wife died of leukemia the company was taken over by their nephew who is Barry Sherman Barry
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Sherman lost his father when he was just nine years old and he grew up working for his uncle's Drug Company after
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graduating from the University of Toronto and getting a PhD in astronautics at MIT he was able to take
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charge of Empire and in January of 1972 Sherman and Ulster limited sold Empire Laboratories in 1973 Sherman started
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opatex this was with with a few of the former Empire Laboratories personnel and he had Incorporated it in 1974. now this
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was a privately owned and sherman-controlled Company and at one point claims to be Canada's largest
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canadian-owned pharmaceutical manufacturer Sherman married his wife honey in 1971 she was a fellow
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University of Toronto graduate born in 1948 in Austria to polish Holocaust Survivors they had four children a son
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Jonathan and three daughters this is Lauren Alexandra and Kalin by 2016 opatex employed over 10 000 people as
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one of Canada's largest pharmaceutical manufacturers with over 260 products selling in over 115 countries now it's
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charitable armed the opatex foundation has donated over 17 million dollars in free medications Sherman himself has
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donated over 50 million dollars as well to other philanthropic causes in the Toronto area and Beyond opatex has seen
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a fair number of litigation issues as companies have pushed back on its efforts to sell cheaper no-name options
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one of the most high profile of these clashes occurred when Pharma giant Bristol Myers squib Sue food opatex in
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2006 to try and stop it from selling the first generic form of the heart disease
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treatment Plavix yeah but these lawsuits would happen for a multitude of different reasons but one of the main
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reasons was that when you created a drug that there was a window where you weren't allowed to manufacture a generic
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version of that drug but Sherman didn't like to wait so if if the generic wasn't
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supposed to be made available until next year he'll start making it this year and
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if you want to sue him go ahead and zoom that way so once once the patent Has Lifted he's ready to go to market with
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this product immediately well he and he would also face legal action from family
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members over the years who allege that they had been cut out of the company that he now owned now on Friday December
00:10:06
15 2017 emergency crews were called to the home at 50 Old Colony Road in the Bayview Avenue and Highway 401 area this
00:10:18
is around 11 45 a.m EMTs responded to a medical emergency that's where Toronto police say that a male and a female were
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found and pronounced dead on the scene the deaths were deemed suspicious but on that day police did not confirm the
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victim's identities nor where in the home they were found they would also not say if there were any signs of trauma to
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the bodies speaking to reporters detective Brandon Price said the deaths are suspicious but
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are not yet being treated as homicides that's because price said investigators are still trying to determine if there
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is Foul Play involved or not and at this point they cannot say 100 percent with any certainty if there is or was not
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it also said that we're going to know a lot more tomorrow adding that the results from the post-mortem
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examinations have yet to be received also they would not say who found the bodies but the CBC Toronto confirmed
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with a police source that they were found by a non-family member that night police would state that they're not
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looking for a suspect and there was no sign of force entry into the family's home the following day on December 16th
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the Canadian pharmaceutical giant opatex confirmed that its founder Barry Sherman
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and his wife honey Sherman were dead and they stated all of us at opatex are deeply shocked and saddened by this news
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and our thoughts and prayers are with the family at this time a neighborhood resident this is Sarah
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Alvey she lived across the street from the Shermans and she said that she was shocked at the site of police activity
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and what she described as a lovely and quiet neighborhood she said we've never seen something like
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this on this street especially with these people everybody knows who they are it was really surprising it was
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heartbreaking now Alvey said that when she heard that the Shermans were selling their home she had gone for fun just to
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check it out at the time she said she spoke with honey Sherman who she knew quite a bit better than Barry
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she said that everything looked normal when she looked went to look at the house the kids rooms were gorgeous it
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was quote picture perfect and then we have this article that comes out Captain this is by Joe warmington of
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the Toronto Sun with the headline murder suicide suspected in the deaths of Toronto billionaire and wife yeah and
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the article reads Barry Sherman a billionaire businessman and philanthropist was found dead alongside
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his wife honey in their Toronto Mansion Friday morning sources say police were working on the theory the demise of the
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billionaire and his wife which has stunned the city and those who knew them may have been a murder-suicide this was
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the theory that the Toronto police service was reportedly going with sources close to the case believe honey
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may have been killed in a secondary location in the 6.9 million dollar Old Colony Road house and then moved to the
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location where she was later found with her deceased husband forensics needs to be done but at this stage it appears
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there was no forced entry and no evidence sense of anybody else in the house a police Source said emergency
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responders found the pair hanging from a railing that surrounds a lap pool inside
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the house inspector Brian Bott who heads up the homicide unit would not confirm or comment on the details of the case
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but he did tell the Toronto Sun at this time we are not searching for any suspects bot said homicide detectives
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will conduct a full investigation and all avenues will be explored that said police did not immediately find a
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suicide note and a search of the massive house which included reviewing the home's video surveillance system was
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just beginning now we know the system now today Captain we know that the system was ADT uh because ADT techs were
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seen at the crime scene working with the Toronto Police Service yeah what we don't know is whether the cameras that
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were inside the home and outside the home if they were turned on because we have Barry who was notoriously known to
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not use the system we're going to pay for the security system but we're not going to use that
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thing well and later we would learn that in fact there was a camera in the actual
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pool area where the bodies were found so law enforcement's going with this idea that this is a murder suicide and the
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family is going to come out and say hey this that's impossible so they get another investigative team involved well
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not only are they not going to be quiet about this but they're not going to be slow about getting their thoughts and
00:15:20
opinions to the media either because very quickly they released a statement and the statement says our parents
00:15:26
shared an enthusiasm for life and a commitment to their family and Community totally inconsistent with the rumors
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regrettably circulated in the media as to the circumstances surrounding their deaths right we the family the Sherman
00:15:41
family are shocked and think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory
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which neither their family nor for their friends or colleagues believed to be true the family comes right out and
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makes a public statement that they aren't buying the murder suicide Theory they go on to say that they urge the
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Toronto Police Service to conduct a thorough intensive and objective criminal investigation and urge the
00:16:11
media to refrain from further reporting as to the cause of these tragic deaths until the investigation is complete
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now we have friends backing up the family so the Sherman family these are adult children of the of the Dead
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obviously uh disagreeing with the early assertion that the police believe that the father killed their mother and then
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staged the scene and took his own life right and as we heard the friends uh there you know there's plenty of friends
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coming out and saying this is impossible this whole idea is impossible it doesn't
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make any sense to us so we have the the children saying not likely and then the friends backing them as well so the
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family they hired a lawyer this is Brian Greenspan to help their own investigation into the tragedy the
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attorney Greenspan he hires a private investigative firm led by a well-respected retired Toronto Police
00:17:11
homicide detective who touts discretion and definitive final conclusions for his
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clients the company is clat investigation which is led by Tom clatt who spent 14 years in homicide drug and
00:17:26
intelligence bureaus with the Toronto Police Service before his retirement in 1998. now he went on to co-found a
00:17:34
different private investigative firm before launching his own outfit in 2015. he has investigated more than 70 murder
00:17:42
investigations bringing a successful conclusion to as many or more than any homicide investigator in Canada this
00:17:50
according to his online biography clatt's clients according to himself well I I don't want to receive any
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pushback from people going well that's not true I'm I'm basing this off of what he has told us and keep in mind it could
00:18:06
be accurate information that he's putting out there but it's also it's also a sales point you know he's he
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needs he's in the business of getting clients so his clients have included high profile groups many of Canada's
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wealthiest families who were in the process of dealing with life-altering family issues it has been reported that
00:18:27
the family conducted their own forensic autopsy on the bodies of the Shermans before their burial as well so we're
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seeing the family one they have the means to do so a lot of the cases that we cover on here captain we're not
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dealing with this level of wealth and and I want to be clear what we're talking about here we're not talking
00:18:47
about rich people we're not talking about somebody that lives in the big house in a in a nice neighborhood we're
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talking about somebody that might live in the biggest house in the nicest neighborhood these are these are not
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rich people these are wealthy people I think they're selling their house for like 5.4 million dollars or something
00:19:05
like that and then they're building a new house which I believe was like 16 000 square
00:19:11
foot or something like that yeah I mean these these are just huge homes so what we're seeing here is when you have a
00:19:18
pole and a hot tub in your basement that's what kind of house we're dealing with yeah but we're also talking about a
00:19:25
family that has the means to go to this level of investing when when they've decided that you know what what the
00:19:31
initial investigation is showing we're not cool with that right well we got the dollars to put together our own team and
00:19:39
these are no slouches and look I understand their concern and I also I agree with the idea that there should be
00:19:46
an investigation but I also think the idea that people come out and go this is impossible it's like there's a lot of
00:19:52
people that commit suicide that people didn't see that coming or somebody committed a murder and they didn't see
00:19:59
that coming either right and I agree with that and I don't know that that's the uh I don't know that that's this the
00:20:05
scenario here I think the scenario here that they're unhappy with is that the police have not outwardly said at no
00:20:12
point are they on camera going you know what this is a murder suicide and we're gonna dig down deep and figure out
00:20:18
exactly what happened right what has happened here is the police are saying these deaths are suspicious we have no
00:20:25
we're not looking for any suspects there's no forced entry to the home that's what they're saying on camera now
00:20:32
according to the media now we're going to take this with a grain of salt here according to the media reporting on the
00:20:39
case they're stating that police sources are telling them this is a murder suicide and this is how we're looking at
00:20:45
this so from the outside looking in from the family members perspectives they're
00:20:50
feeling that hey it's irresponsible of the police to leak this information before they've
00:20:57
completed their investigation right and it's also irresponsible of the media to drag our good parents names through the
00:21:04
mud until this investigation has been completed as well and they just I think what they're worried about is that
00:21:12
they're seeing things that they don't like from the get-go and they want to see you don't want this train to get too
00:21:18
far off the tracks before you try to reel it back in right so and the thing here is they have to they have to move
00:21:25
quickly because if they're going to have a second autopsy performed on The Bodies
00:21:30
well you know the the Shermans were were Jewish and Jewish tradition requires like most religions requires that the
00:21:38
bodies be buried within a certain amount of time so the uh and that did happen funeral services were held for the
00:21:45
Shermans on December 21st uh this was in a Toronto suburb and attended by several
00:21:52
thousands of people and to to to give everybody an idea of the level that Barry and his wife honey Sherman were on
00:22:02
the Prime Minister attended this service as well as the mayor Justin Trudeau yes as well as the mayor and the
00:22:11
uh the Ontario Premier so we're talking about some of the highest political figures attending this service for these
00:22:19
good people and the Shermans were donating to their campaigns and things like that so obviously that's why they
00:22:25
showed up now I do want to be clear though uh that it should be noted that the Toronto police still had control of
00:22:33
the crime scene this being the Sherman's home where the bodies were found but the private experts at this time
00:22:39
they were conducting a secondary investigation and they would not be able to conduct an investigation inside the
00:22:47
home until after the police were finished so we don't have the family here trying to interfere
00:22:54
I don't see the family interfering with the investigation I see them bringing in
00:22:58
their own team and maybe aiding the investigation and conducting their own once the police say that they are done
00:23:06
the problem with the police being done is this is a giant home yeah and like you when you hear the
00:23:13
trailer she said uh it took us about six weeks to do all the forensics that we needed to do in this property because of
00:23:22
how big it was well and with new investigators well there's going to come new theories
00:23:29
so these new investigators are not going to go into the scene and say hey we think we're dealing with a murder
00:23:36
suicide they're going to work under the assumption that there are three main scenarios for these private
00:23:42
investigators to consider one possible double suicide or a double homicide or a murder suicide
00:23:51
now Captain do you do you find it strange you know while we're on the topic that the police are hinting toward
00:23:57
murder suicide so very quickly after finding the bodies especially now that we know that no note was found or no
00:24:05
message was sent to someone to indicate uh that's what what had happened I I don't even know what the percentage is
00:24:12
of uh suicides are left with a note but I would I would assume that a murder suicide
00:24:21
there'd be less notes because you would be committing the suicide probably based off the fact that
00:24:27
you you know you had just murdered a loved one and you can't well I can't even call
00:24:34
him loved one at that point but he just murdered this person that you're close with and now you're killing yourself
00:24:39
probably because you murdered that person and you don't want to deal with those consequences I don't find it
00:24:46
strange or odd that they quickly were hinting toward murder suicide scenario and I and I say that because
00:24:53
you know there's been so many times throughout my life that I hear oh there's there was a shooting in
00:24:59
Northeast Ohio uh suspected two people dead and that's that's like the first information you
00:25:06
hear and then within an hour or two you're hearing likely murder suicide you know and and
00:25:13
it usually can quickly what I'm getting at is it seems to me in most scenarios when police arrive and that ends up
00:25:21
being the actual result after an investigation has taken place and they've ruled that it was in fact a
00:25:27
murder suicide it seems to me that it's very often that very obvious signs of that when police arrive on the scene
00:25:35
what I find strange here is not so much that they might have suspected that to begin with
00:25:43
I find it strange one what was at the scene that was the indicator for police that that was the route to look at
00:25:51
because I'm not hearing anything in the initial reports that point toward that for me but then furthermore
00:25:59
it's the other thing too is usually when that's the initial thought that ends up
00:26:04
being the result right and I don't think that that's what we're going to end up with here
00:26:08
[Music] foreign [Music] cheers cheers captain now we haven't really got into what is known about this case the
00:26:36
facts and the details surrounding the Sherman couple's death but you know and I apologize that we haven't got to it
00:26:43
yet there was some information we needed to get out but there's also kind of a little bit of doing that on purpose
00:26:49
because with this case and you and I were talking about this the other day you know for this garage investigation
00:26:56
there was a lot of rumors and speculation that were coming out before any real information was coming out yeah
00:27:03
and what information came out early in this investigation the first two or three weeks or so
00:27:09
well it was just a lot of speculation that was regurgitated from one newspaper article to magazine to internet to so on
00:27:17
and so forth and you never really got any sense of what possibly could have happened to these two people so after
00:27:25
some some much digging we were able to piece together a chain of events here in this case so let's get right into the
00:27:33
thick of it let's go through that chain of events of the facts and what is known
00:27:37
about the case now keep in mind when we're going through this when we are examining these couple of days the
00:27:45
Sherman's daily lives they're probably vastly different from most of ours these are very successful
00:27:52
wealthy people who are probably they have a lot of business obligations they're probably busier than most of us
00:27:58
what are you trying to say I got some business well the other thing though too that I
00:28:04
want everybody to keep in mind when we go through this is there are two major events going on simultaneously during
00:28:09
this time in their lives one their home is for sale and actively being shown to potential buyers and two the Shermans
00:28:19
are designing and building a new home to move into eventually right okay so first
00:28:25
on December 12 2017 this is the day before the couple was last seen alive honey missed a scheduled meeting at the
00:28:34
Bay Crest Center Foundation where here's what I've learned from this okay okay they have stated that
00:28:44
had it been any other board member for this Bay Crest Center Foundation no one would have really paid much attention to
00:28:52
this um but with honey they they kind of dubbed her the Beloved queen bee of this
00:29:00
of this group right and so they found it strange that she did not attend and the
00:29:06
other thing that they found strange and and actually the foundation's president Josh Cooper is outwardly said
00:29:14
it was quote bizarre that she was not there now they were a little concerned that she didn't show up so they sent her
00:29:22
an email to make sure that she was okay and she did respond back fairly quickly and her response was short and simple it
00:29:31
just said sorry uh she was dealing with some stuff and unable to attend right and when you're selling a house they
00:29:38
might you know had a showing that she had to get the house ready for or it could have been some last minute meeting
00:29:45
because they didn't break ground on their new construction yet right I don't believe so this was still very
00:29:53
much I'm a little confused and I got to be outwardly honest with you on this because we're not talking about time
00:29:59
you're honest we're not talking about the shotgun house that I live in this is you know this is a project this is going
00:30:06
to take a team of people to design this thing and as a lot of people out there know when you're building something big
00:30:12
like this their new home you run into obstacles and things need to be changed and
00:30:18
you know people change their minds and opinions on things of how they want things done through that process as well
00:30:23
well and it could be as simple as the an architecture or engineer contacting them
00:30:29
saying hey we need these decisions made today and if not this is going to hold up the process even more so it could be
00:30:37
something as simple as that maybe she didn't want to dive into the details well and we can read as much or as
00:30:44
little into it as we want but it should be thrown out there that the day before she missed a meeting that she would
00:30:50
otherwise not typically Miss to the point where the president of the foundation said it was bizarre that she
00:30:58
was not there and then her response seems vague and given the outcome right right very ominous so now on the day the
00:31:09
day that they were last seen the Shermans met with the Architects at on Wednesday afternoon this is December
00:31:15
13th at the this is at Sherman's work at Barry Sherman's work apparently honey left the business after the meeting and
00:31:25
this was sometime roughly before 5 PM now it's assumed that she went directly home from that time and we say that
00:31:33
because there are no more reported sightings of her that day right now no one is go ahead I was going to say that
00:31:41
so she goes to the meeting this is at her husband's place of work correct and they're going to meet with the
00:31:47
Architects yes of the of the new build their new home now she drives I don't know if you found this odd but I just
00:31:54
thought this was a little strange kind of like you know put a little pin in my um my notes she drives a champagne color
00:32:04
Lexus a newer Lexus like SUV and he drives a 1999 Mustang just found out a little straight well
00:32:17
that's kind of one famous thing about Barry Sherman and I don't know if it's if it's myth or if it's true but right
00:32:25
but everything you just said would point to it being true there is a thought that
00:32:30
as as extremely wealthy as Barry Sherman was yeah um he in his adult life it's rumored he only owned four cars
00:32:39
and meaning that he owned a car would drive it until it could not drive anymore and then he would go get another
00:32:45
car and repeat this process throughout the course of his life which I just thought it was a little strange because
00:32:52
well maybe not even strange but to me you're you're building a 16 000 square foot home that is
00:33:01
that's a statement you know people come to your house they see a house that big you have no problem letting people know
00:33:10
you have some money right now you're driving a 1999 Mustang that's the opposite of that you know
00:33:18
that's the well this car still works so I'm going to still drive it so I think you have
00:33:24
two different personalities and we should probably get into this just touch upon it before we go through this
00:33:28
timeline okay but um I think you have two different personalities just because Barry Sherman is extremely wealthy and
00:33:35
he's made hit a lot of you know he was born into success in a sense that his uncle was successful with that company
00:33:42
right but he's also taken that what he was born into and and done very well for himself through probably a lot of hard
00:33:51
work and determination so right right he was lucky enough to get the opportunity but most people want
00:33:59
to work have worked as hard as Barry did to make it even a bigger company and when you look back on Barry's life in
00:34:06
the way that he was set up and the way that he carried himself it was almost like a Can't Fail situation really to me
00:34:13
when when you when you when you have somebody that steps into that role that is given a certain
00:34:21
leg up on everything but also is extremely Intel I mean the guy graduated I think he he either attended or
00:34:28
graduated college at 16. so we're not talking about a dummy here this is a very very smart guy he goes on to get a
00:34:36
doctorate from MIT so this is a brilliant dude and a hard-working dude it was almost like I said when you look
00:34:43
back on it you're like well this is a a recipe for Success this is a Can't Fail situation but just because he was very
00:34:51
wealthy and successful I don't know that he that he cared what a lot of that wealth could afford him
00:35:00
right so there were several of his friends that were were quoted as saying things like Barry didn't care about
00:35:07
things he didn't care about objects he didn't care about cars um you know several people had reported
00:35:14
that Barry would would often be seen working long hours at his company wearing wrinkled shirts and
00:35:23
you know a pair of pants that looked like he had owned them for 15 20 years right so that that that gives you a
00:35:30
sense of of kind of that makes the car make more sense but there's also individuals that just get
00:35:36
um attached to vehicles too and they can't let them go well and he's also on record and I I believe this was a
00:35:44
newspaper or magazine article where he had done an interview before he was before his death
00:35:52
where he said something to the effect of he thought that they would live in their
00:35:56
current home for the rest of their lives I mean now mind you Barry's 75 at the time of his death and his wife I believe
00:36:02
was 70. right so we're talking about an older couple but this we're also talking
00:36:06
about an extremely nice home and he had said he had thought that they would live in
00:36:12
that home for the rest of their lives however honey told him it was time to get a new house so I guess we're moving
00:36:17
was was right that's not verbatim but that quote is pretty close there okay so back to the timeline let's we're
00:36:25
talking about the day that it is believed that they were last seen right we have this meeting where the two of
00:36:31
them attend this meeting at Barry's work the meeting with the architects who are
00:36:35
designing their new home this meeting is over sometime in the evening early afternoon
00:36:43
um and we have honey who leaves Barry's work around 5 PM again it's assumed that she
00:36:51
went straight home now as far as Barry goes no one is certain about what time he left the building what time he left
00:36:58
the business to go home now there are a couple reports out there that state that this could have been as
00:37:03
early as 6 30 PM but most reports have stated that he stayed there as late as 8 45 p.m and I actually think that this
00:37:13
might be more accurate than the earlier time of 6 30. the reason being is I've seen it
00:37:19
reported that he would often this would be 8 45 would be a little more consistent with the hours that he
00:37:25
typically put in and while we don't know that this time for sure the police probably have a much
00:37:32
better idea on this time because of a couple things what we do know is that Barry spent most
00:37:38
of that evening responding to emails at work that day all right before leaving and it's believed that the last known
00:37:46
email sent from his opatex account was at 8 30 p.m that night now I couldn't find it reported as to what the
00:37:57
emails were regarding or if they were responded to but it's believed that that he sent this last email 8 30 and then
00:38:06
just like his wife likely went straight home that night now Barry Sherman did not show up to
00:38:13
work on Thursday which for some reason didn't immediately raise any alarm Bells yeah
00:38:20
yeah now on Friday morning at 8 30 a.m a housekeeper and another person who watered the plants both arrived at the
00:38:28
house at 8 30. these were both regular visits each week on Friday morning this two people these two people would enter
00:38:36
the home so both the housekeeper and the plant water they busied themselves on the main level in the second floor for
00:38:45
approximately the next two hours and they saw nobody correct now keep in mind both floors are roughly
00:38:55
um according to this report both floors are roughly 3 600 square feet and they have multiple rooms
00:39:02
now neither the housekeeper or the person watering the plants descended to the lower level now the lower level
00:39:08
includes a garage a recreation area and a swimming pool at 10 30 a.m two real estate agents and
00:39:17
a couple that was interested in purchasing purchasing the house arrived the house was listed for sale by agent
00:39:25
Judy Gottlieb now Barry Sherman and his wife honey were selling their home uh the reports are kind of all over the
00:39:32
place Captain but the one that seems the most accurate was it was being listed for 6.9 million dollars
00:39:38
I was off yeah this is some good coin right there yeah I was off by a little bit um it was listed with uh Forest Hill
00:39:47
real estate Incorporated and Judy Gottlieb the listing agent was she's reported to be a close friend to
00:39:56
the Shermans I don't know exactly what that means but that's what's reported now Gottlieb was away in Florida so
00:40:04
another agent was taking her place that day the other agent uh present represented the prospective purchasers
00:40:13
Okay so we have we have two agents just to clear this up we have two people that are looking at
00:40:21
the home they're interested in buying it a couple wealthy couple okay and we their agent is going to be
00:40:29
escorting them on this visit also on this visit will be this Judy Gottlieb it's going to be her assistant
00:40:36
because remember Judy Gottlieb is gone right so we have two agents and we have this couple that are going to be walking
00:40:43
the property walking the house checking everything out meanwhile we had the housekeeper and the person watering the
00:40:49
plants who have been busy on two different floors but not gone to the lower level so after touring the Upper
00:40:56
Floor the agents and the clients went downstairs and walked along a corridor leading to the pool area gottlieb's
00:41:04
assistant went first she walked through the doorway to the pool room and then she comes running out
00:41:11
of there at the other end of the room she saw two bodies backs to the pool held in a sitting position by something
00:41:20
tied around their necks she turned and and ushered the other agent and the clients back making an excuse saying
00:41:27
this part of the home is off limits at the moment now I mean I don't mean to laugh but
00:41:36
basically her real estate instincts kicks in and she sees two bodies and still is trying to comfort the buyers
00:41:45
because she's still trying to make the sale well I don't I think she's being very I
00:41:52
think she's been thrown into a situation that no one could expect to be and she's
00:41:56
handled it extremely professionally this discovery was made shortly after 11 A.M
00:42:01
on Friday so gottlieb's assistant called up to the housekeeper telling her what she had seen then made a phone call
00:42:09
seeking Direction on what to do now it's not been made public who she called at this time but she did call someone
00:42:17
meanwhile the housekeeper called 9-1-1 the Toronto police 9-1-1 system records the call coming in at 11 43 a.m police
00:42:28
were in route by 11 44. Toronto EMS told the star that's one of their local newspapers they dispatched two paramedic
00:42:37
Crews and a supervisor at that same time now let's go through some of the other findings and some of the other things we
00:42:46
know regarding this discovery the couple's grown children this is you know this is adding you know
00:42:54
what's already bad making it even worse but uh apparently they heard about the death of their parents through the media
00:43:02
and through social media rather than the police or somebody coming to tell them what was happened so well let's see
00:43:11
here's the other issue here too is we haven't really I mean I think people who are assuming this but you know Barry and
00:43:17
honey were so wealthy that there were almost Celebrity Status right and so that's one of the problems
00:43:26
with them uh hearing it through the media yeah and and like you said Captain these are people that are so wealthy you
00:43:32
would it wouldn't be uncommon to see them in the news or to read about them in the newspaper or or them being
00:43:39
interviewed for a magazine article you know these were people that their faces and names were very well known so
00:43:47
I one thing I want to dive into here briefly is the time of death because we have we have a couple that is last seen
00:43:56
sometime Wednesday evening and they're not found until Friday morning there are some Outlets reporting that
00:44:03
the Shermans died on Thursday and personally I believe this is mostly speculation
00:44:11
um I don't know if this is just early reports coming out that were wrong of people jumping to conclusions but uh the
00:44:18
consensus is that the Shermans were last seen on Wednesday evening like we said um
00:44:24
and it is unclear whether they were killed soon after that but I think Wednesday is the likely time that they
00:44:32
were killed and I only say that because honey Sherman was found wearing the clothing that she had been seen wearing
00:44:39
on Wednesday right which would make the most sense my issue is not so much that the children hear about the deaths
00:44:46
through the media it's the fact that Barry doesn't show up to work on Thursday honey doesn't show up
00:44:53
anywhere and there was nobody at their offices calling their kids or or calling anybody it seems like to figure out why
00:45:00
they're not at work I don't know that their children would have been called I wouldn't I wouldn't doubt that either
00:45:07
honey or Barry were that they were called right um with them being so busy and let's just say powerful because
00:45:15
they're powerful individuals um you I guess you wouldn't challenge that a whole lot you know if you're if you're
00:45:22
a secretary or an assistant or somebody that works for Barry or even for honey for that fact I still think you would
00:45:29
but that's that's just me to me it that's kind of a gray spot here on why did we not why wasn't there people
00:45:39
reaching out to other people or maybe there were and it just got to the end of the day and none of the dots got
00:45:44
connected but to me it seems a little odd that especially Barry such a workaholic
00:45:51
doesn't go into work he sees him there's you know there's no call there's no checkup on him we should add though
00:45:58
I should just to clarify it seems to me like Barry was in his Twilight years let's say okay even though he's he's
00:46:06
reportedly staying at work long hours that's probably a habit he he hadn't broke but he was not the active CEO of
00:46:15
his company at that time right he had he had moved on and had somebody else taking that position it sounds to me
00:46:22
like Barry was was more just kind of going in there and checking on things and keeping an eye on
00:46:28
things so maybe he came and went as he pleased yeah I don't I don't know that he actually held any real responsibility
00:46:34
or any real Duty while he was there if that makes sense um family sources say that the last known
00:46:43
cell phone communication and I don't know if this is text or audio but the family sources say that this came from
00:46:50
the Sherman couple was on Wednesday at some point during the day as we had said earlier captain no signs of forced entry
00:46:58
into the home and no suicide note found on the scene there was also no damage reported to the inside of the home and I
00:47:06
found one report that states that there was nothing to suggest that this could be a home invasion and I want to be
00:47:13
clear on what that means I I think the way that this the way that this report reads what they are referring to is
00:47:21
where somebody breaks in either in the middle of the night to the home or kicks in the door and busts their way in and
00:47:28
takes over the scene there was nothing to point to any of that the autopsies were conducted on Saturday and Sunday
00:47:34
and this indicated that the Shermans died of a ligature neck compression sources say investigators found the
00:47:42
Sherman's side by side in their windowless pool room each with a man's leather belt wrapped around their necks
00:47:49
and tied to the pool railing both had on jackets that were pulled quote behind their backs and rolled down over their
00:47:59
arms their winter coats were on their bodies but pushed down on their backs and arms
00:48:05
if that makes any sense It is believed that the camera in the pool area had been disconnected
00:48:12
toxicology tests on the bodies reveal no sign of drugs that would have contributed to their deaths now while
00:48:20
earlier media reports suggest that they died by hanging that is incorrect they were found in a seated position at the
00:48:28
side of a pool in the lower level of the house with their legs facing away from the pool the belts were around their
00:48:34
necks with the end of the belt through the Buckle and pulled tight the free end of each belt was then
00:48:41
looped or tied around a low railing that surrounds the pool sources say a working theory of the
00:48:49
private team probing the deaths is that the Shermans were strangled by the belts
00:48:54
then the belts were attached to the railing holding them in a seated position the legature neck compression
00:49:01
was likely done by the leather belts found at the scene right now one thing that's interesting here is
00:49:10
my first thought goes to are these berries belts right because they very specifically say men's belts in these
00:49:19
reports or were these belts brought in by the Killer and it took some digging I did find one article that states that
00:49:28
that kind of points to one Belt being berries but doesn't clarify who the other belt belonged to or if
00:49:37
they knew for sure yeah and my thought on that Captain is that maybe Barry has found not wearing a belt you know around
00:49:45
his you know on his pants so therefore it's easy to assume that that man's belt was berries the one that he was wearing
00:49:54
the other one might be called into question because you know it might be one that was taken
00:50:00
from the closet and whether or not this man bought a lot of clothes we don't know however I'm assuming from people
00:50:09
that I worked with and have worked for in the past this guy's got more than two belts in the house probably
00:50:16
but interesting that they believed that they were strangled and then moved and then the belts were tied in such a
00:50:28
way to almost keep them upright yeah so they are they're hanging but they're not they're
00:50:37
not hanging in a sense that one would I mean this railing is going to be I've never been in the room I'm guessing
00:50:43
it's going to be about three three and a half foot high maybe a little taller than that so they are almost like they
00:50:50
are sitting down but slightly off the ground because the belt has connected their neck to the railing holding them
00:50:58
from being fully Seated on the floor [Music] a key finding uh was during the discovery process of the second autopsy
00:51:09
and this were marks on both Barry and honey Sherman's wrist this indicating that each person's wrists were bound
00:51:18
together at some point likely with rope or a plastic strap an examination of the
00:51:24
markings does not clearly determine if the hands were Bound in front or behind their backs right you think maybe zip
00:51:31
ties or something yeah now their hands were not bound when the bodies were discovered police also searched the roof
00:51:40
of the house and used metal detectors on the property here's one thing I want to get at
00:51:46
Captain because this this hands being bound either in front or behind their backs is not a 100 certainty it was a
00:51:55
finding in one of the autopsies I believe it's probably likely that this went down
00:52:01
but the whole winter coat thing is then very weird right I mean I know it's Toronto it's December
00:52:08
so it's obviously very cold um we know that the Shermans drove home separately I I think that they may have parked
00:52:16
their cars outside of the house and I say that because there are some crime scene photos that show Honey's Lexus
00:52:22
parked in the driveway and not the garage right so first off they have this fancy garage that's underneath their
00:52:30
home why are they parking outside that's super weird and well that might have been stopped outside
00:52:38
and then as for the coats were they still wearing their coats when they were attacked were they attacked
00:52:44
outside brought into the house they're wearing their coats obviously at separate times if they arrived at
00:52:50
separate times [Music] so they're still wearing their coats when they're attacked is is my thought
00:52:56
but the way that the coat thing is described is almost like the coat is put on you
00:53:03
to to constrict your arms as well like your arms are not in the arms of the jacket
00:53:10
it reads as if the coat is wrapped around your body and arms and then zipped up or pushed down so that it
00:53:18
would restrict movement of your arms and hands right which makes me feel like maybe the jackets were put on after
00:53:26
you know by the perpetrator and again they think that there's some kind of strangulation beforehand but you have
00:53:34
two individuals that are up in the air so what's making you think that they weren't being you know being strangled
00:53:42
in that position right and so was it like oh we bound their hands now we take those off and
00:53:48
now we're going to put their jackets on after the death and we should be clear about that
00:53:53
because I don't know if it was clear the way that I described it but it would be
00:53:57
that if this is in fact true that their hands were tied or bound that these bindings were removed from
00:54:04
the scene they were not found on on the bodies on the Shermans when they were discovered right so meaning meaning
00:54:12
Barry Sherman could not have killed his wife then killed himself and then disposed of these bindings all at the
00:54:19
same time it just doesn't work out um also if well the jacket part doesn't work out
00:54:28
because you'd have to put the jacket back on himself right well in addition the jacket part doesn't work out right
00:54:34
because what's he going to do hang himself and then pull his jacket down past his arms somehow well I want to be
00:54:39
clear the reason why a lot there was a lot of speculation about that at first was there was some bruising uh on
00:54:46
Honey's face and so a lot of people were like well there was no bruising on Barry's face so therefore murder suicide
00:54:54
but like you said you gotta get these bindings you got this the jackets um I think they were probably just met
00:55:01
outside before they even got into the garage you know and Barry probably stopped because he saw
00:55:07
you know Honey's car there so you if you base it off of the timeline you say where
00:55:14
is not leaving until 8 30 8 45 well you know that means that these attackers had honey for a lot longer
00:55:23
a couple couple hours before Barry would get home if if that scenario in fact is
00:55:28
true it would have to go down something like this Barry arrives home I'm sorry honey arrives home before Barry
00:55:34
something prevents her from parking the car in the garage or she's intending on just running into the house and leaving
00:55:42
very quickly but something happens to where she is attacked this would also explain the no signs of
00:55:50
forced entry if she was attacked outside and nobody witnessed this they could use
00:55:55
her keys to gain entry to the home then they pull her into the home they take control of the scene and I say they
00:56:01
because it could be one person could be two could be three they take control of the scene they have control of Honey now
00:56:08
I don't know if she killed at that time or not while they wait for Barry to arrive Barry would pull in seeing his
00:56:16
wife's car in the driveway wonder what's up maybe he decides to park in the driveway as well to see what's going on
00:56:21
right he goes to the front door he goes inside and when he gets inside he's greeted by
00:56:28
these people that have been lying and wait for him or they have his wife hostage and now they
00:56:35
have a bargaining chip and he's got to do what they say right right now as as we know Captain
00:56:41
um while we're on the details of what was found what is known and what is not known as we know it is typical in a
00:56:48
death investigation for police to serve production orders or search orders signed by a judge or Justice of the
00:56:56
Peace um for cell phones and to cell phone companies or to Banks to obtain records
00:57:04
showing a person's whereabouts and so forth now if permission is given by the executor of this in the which I've heard
00:57:11
that the banks have come forward and the cell phone companies have come forward in this case and said you do not need to
00:57:17
submit um search warrants we've worked we're working with the family any information that the police need we
00:57:26
will provide to you so don't delay yourself with with seeking search warrants or serve uh production orders
00:57:32
right what is weird here though is I couldn't find anywhere that indicated whether
00:57:39
the couple's cell phones were recovered from the crime scene [Music] and just a quick reminder we have four
00:57:55
episodes now captain of our new show off the Record which is available on Stitcher premium in those episodes we go
00:58:02
through some more coverage and some more thoughts on the Amy mihalovic case from
00:58:07
the northeast Ohio area and I believe next week's episode is going to be parts of the live event we did talking about
00:58:15
some new stuff in the Brian Shaffer case so if you're not subscribed to that go to
00:58:22
stitcherpremium.com True Crime garage and use our promo code garage until tomorrow be good be kind and don't let
00:58:30
him foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]