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2023 welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:37
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probably want to get this done before you get a swift kick to the grundle all right that's enough of the business
00:03:39
everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime this is true crime
00:03:51
garage and this is the case of the missing Welch [Music] girls [Music] lore Bible is described as 5' 5 in tall
00:04:29
130 lb with brown hair and Hazel Eyes Ashley Freeman is 5 fo 7 in tall 145 lb with dark blonde hair and blue
00:04:43
eyes she has a scar on the upper left side of her forehead both are Caucasian females and
00:04:51
were 16 years old at the time of their disappearance they have been missing since December 30th 1999 from Welch
00:05:01
Oklahoma they are both classified as endangered missing this is true crime garage and this is the case of the
00:05:17
missing Welch girls the Freeman family lived in a trailer home outside of Welch Oklahoma and the
00:05:34
family consisted of parents Dany and Kathy Freeman and their 16-year-old daughter Ashley on December 29th 1999
00:05:43
the family was celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday yeah and like a typical thing she's going to have her best friend
00:05:49
spend the night and her best friend is Laura Bible yes they are both 16 years old by this point they are lifelong
00:05:56
friends both were very good students Ashley was a basketball player Laura was a cheerleader and both of them were very
00:06:03
well liked so Ashley and Laura went with Kathy Freeman who took the two girls out
00:06:08
to dinner some have stated that they went to a Pizza Hut others said that it was Big Bill's Barbecue but regardless
00:06:15
they go out to dinner that evening they also picked up feed for the Freeman's livestock and water from Cathy's mom's
00:06:23
house after dinner they went to their local Walmart store there Ashley met her boyfriend Jeremy Hurst Jeremy gave
00:06:31
Ashley a silver chain with a heart-shaped pendant that also contained her birth stone this was her birthday
00:06:37
gift and then after the Walmart Kathy Ashley and Laura all went back to the Freeman's home and Jeremy joined them as
00:06:45
well Laura already spent the night the night before at the Freeman's house but since it's getting dark they're going to
00:06:51
stop by her family's house to see if it's okay if she spends the night again yeah it was it was going to be for one
00:06:57
night turns into two nights because Laura's parents do not let her drive after dark she's already driving by this
00:07:03
time her car is parked at the Freeman house now they drop by just to make sure it to be okay because it's well after
00:07:09
dark by this point and we can assume that they're on winter break at at this point now back at the Freeman home
00:07:16
Jeremy Hurst the boyfriend he says that while he was there he didn't think anything was abnormal he didn't see
00:07:22
anything out of place uh he says that he left the Freeman home around 9:30 p.m. but Annie the father he had some
00:07:31
relatives there at the Freeman home and one of the relatives said that Jeremy left closer to 10:30 p.m. so about an
00:07:38
hour later than Jeremy remembers yeah but as we know with eyewitness accounts they can be off by a little bit both of
00:07:44
the girls the next day had things that they had to do Ashley was going to take her driver's test and Laura had
00:07:50
scheduled a dentist appointment for the following morning well the following morning around 5:30 a.m. a passing
00:07:57
motorist reported a fire in the vicinity of the Freeman's trailer mhm when fire and police First Responders first showed
00:08:05
up to find the trailer a blaze they put out the fire and inside on the bed they found the body of a female they would
00:08:14
learn that this is the body of Kathy Freeman and they learned that she was not killed by the fire she had been shot
00:08:20
in the head before the fire so now we have a dead mother and we have a missing father and we have the missing two
00:08:27
teenagers yes and Ashley the sheriff's department they're going to start investigating and they have a theory
00:08:34
they immediately have a theory and their theory is that Danny Freeman probably lost it and he shot his wife he set the
00:08:41
trailer on fire and he took off with both of the 16-year-old girls no he he was known to have a temper and he had a
00:08:48
few run-ins with the sheriff's department we'll get to that in a minute the next day Lor's parents Jay and Loren
00:08:54
Bible they are at the scene of the fire and the murder and they are looking amongst the rubble for Clues regarding
00:09:01
the girl's whereabouts mhm they see the Freeman Family Dog this is a Rottweiler so a very big dog and the dog is kind of
00:09:10
laying on a collapsed portion of the trailer and around the dog or as some have suggested underneath of the Dog Jay
00:09:19
spots something and it's clear to Jay that he is looking at the dead body of a man the body of Danny Freeman always
00:09:27
been super fascinating to me how in tune with the world and surroundings dogs are
00:09:33
well the the crazy thing here is that Laura Bible's parents they could tell that Dany did not die as a result of the
00:09:41
fire either because as they described it in quote he did not have anything from the upper teeth all the way to the top
00:09:48
of his head that portion of the face was totally gone Jesus now the first question so gunshot blast to the to the
00:09:57
face yes and the first question that we we have to ask ourselves is how did the police and the firefighters miss the
00:10:04
body of Dany you know and does this make you think that they could have overlooked the bodies of the two
00:10:10
16-year-old girls as well well and then obviously that the public has access to this crime scene yeah we have a
00:10:18
situation where the Bibles were up there looking for clues about their daughters
00:10:22
and her friend and the thing is here that once they call and report that they found the body of Danny they get a
00:10:30
little push back from law enforcement stating that you know we've been over that crime scene and you must be
00:10:35
mistaken well what took place I guess is that you know yeah we're mistaken we just saw a guy with his face blown off
00:10:43
they they showed up and they put out the fire and this probably took a good deal
00:10:46
of time but after that once they're looking amongst the the rubble and the debris they find the body of of Kathy
00:10:54
they fail to find Danny's body but they leave the crime scene around 5:30 to 6:00 p.m. that night now keep in mind
00:11:02
it's the winter month so it's getting dark about that same time right there was a good chance that they may not have
00:11:07
found it uh just due to Time by right so by the time they get the fire out you know the Sun is setting and they
00:11:16
find the one body but so let's not you know jump down law enforcement's throats too quick maybe it's like well now it's
00:11:23
dark we're just going to stop we'll start again in the morning exactly but I don't think they planned on starting
00:11:29
again in the morning because they release the crime scene they they they leave the area well that's that's an
00:11:34
error that's irresponsible now the now the bibles are up there looking for stuff they find Danny and we're also
00:11:42
talking about a very very small community extremely remote area as well it's like 6 600 people live there yeah
00:11:49
so I mean let's just say under a thousand we know for sure under a thousand so the bibles are up there
00:11:55
looking and now once they get pushed back from law enforcement uh Law Enforcement wants to take the crime
00:12:01
scene back however by this point the bibles are up there with a bunch of their friends and family that are
00:12:07
assisting them looking through the debris and they're actually lifting up heavy objects you know refrigerators
00:12:15
beds uh they're looking for anywhere that these girls might have hid and maybe passed away in the fire oh hold up
00:12:22
a second that's definitely not what they're thinking they're thinking if they died in that house it's not from a
00:12:28
fire they were murdered just like the other two victims well and they're also freaking out because all of the cars are
00:12:34
still there in front of the Freeman home and we're talking about a big stretch of
00:12:38
land too you know so there's a lot of area and ground to cover when you're when you're conducting this search but
00:12:44
one thing that I found interesting was that the Bibles had said to law enforcement you know all of the cars are
00:12:51
still here have you checked the vehicles they claim that that law enforcement tells them no we we didn't we haven't
00:12:58
checked the vehicles yet yet and of course you know the Bibles and and their family members and friends are there
00:13:02
wondering what kind of search is this you miss Danny the first day right and then you've not even thought to check
00:13:08
the vehicles could these girls be in the vehicles could they be in the trunk of one of these cars well I mean again
00:13:15
let's not jump down law enforcement too much because you're you're there with your friends and family touching all the
00:13:22
debris MH that's a crime scene there's two murdered victims and you just contaminated that so good luck you know
00:13:30
if you do find somebody responsible good luck having enough evidence to convict them well let's talk about Danny's
00:13:37
running with the law real quick right uh and to do this we're going to have to introduce Shane Freeman Shane was a was
00:13:45
Ashley's older brother deceased now yeah and we'll have to go back in time a little to tell this story um in
00:13:53
1998 Shane was experiencing behavioral problems the family was ordered to to participate in a counseling program this
00:14:01
was after Shane stole his uncle's pickup truck now I do want to be kind of clear
00:14:06
here because I've heard this story a few different ways unless Shane was out stealing multiple vehicles um I've heard
00:14:12
it reported that he had stolen the uncle's truck or he had taken the grandparents vehicle right um maybe it's
00:14:20
the one one and the same I don't know but for whatever reason he took this vehicle that's what teenagers like to
00:14:26
say borrowing yeah and now there's there's another story that has a few different uh perspectives let's say on
00:14:33
it um regarding this vehicle being stolen Dany calls it in and he reports his son Shane as missing at the same
00:14:42
time that the vehicle is reported as stolen M now Shane is picked up for this now during this
00:14:49
situation the Shane has been abused okay it's obvious to the deputy that that arrest him that that Shane has been
00:14:59
abused physically abused like beat up that's one way that The Story Goes the other way that The Story Goes was that
00:15:05
Shane was at school and a school counselor or a coach had noticed that his his buttocks area was was bleeding
00:15:15
and he was extremely bruised up uh to the point where it wasn't just you know well that's it wasn't just mom or dad
00:15:22
with a little discipline to to straighten Shane out it was it looked like an obvious beating type situation
00:15:29
and like we said before the father Danny was known to have a temper so maybe his
00:15:35
parenting was getting a little out of control yeah and this was not the only situation where we saw his temp temper
00:15:42
flare up um back in 1985 well hold on hold on we're assuming it was Dany that was disciplining him
00:15:50
too hard or maybe just being a drunk and beating his child well what are we assuming here we're assuming that it was
00:15:58
Danny because he would be charged with with child abuse in the situation and what what law enforcement would contend
00:16:05
that that this was excessive force that Dany had used where Dany is saying no you're you're taking a family situation
00:16:12
and you're blowing it way out of proportion um but again this is not the first time that his temper has got him
00:16:18
into trouble because back in 1985 he got Danny got in trouble for beating up his father-in-law they had
00:16:25
some kind of what sounds almost like a minor disagreement gets you know gets crazy and out of hand and Dany ends up
00:16:32
getting charged with that and that's the evidence of Dany having a temper problem
00:16:36
yeah and after Dany is charged with abusing his son in 1998 Shane does not want to return to his parents' home he
00:16:44
ends up staying briefly with the with Ashley's family with the Bible family and in early January 1999 the Bible
00:16:52
family filed a complaint with authorities stating that Shane took some of Laura's belongings and her money and
00:16:59
that he also stole several of the Bible's Firearms well you know no good deed goes unpunished come to our house
00:17:07
steal our stuff yeah he takes he takes some of lore's money he takes the Firearms now the police are looking for
00:17:14
Shane and he ends up taking another vehicle this is somebody in the Freeman family and while he's out on the Run
00:17:22
well he this is very strange when he takes the other car mhm he doesn't again he doesn't steal somebody else's car he
00:17:29
he takes one of his own family members cars correct and while the while the law enforcement are looking for him he he
00:17:37
tries to pull over a female driver and the the female does not believe that this person is a sheriff or a police
00:17:46
officer um you know he's he's 19 years old uh he probably doesn't look anything like law enforcement and she calls 911
00:17:56
and she reports the situation stating that you know there's this guy saying he's he's law enforcement trying to pull
00:18:03
me over I'm not going to pull over I'm going to drive somewhere where I feel safe before I pull over so well
00:18:11
interesting too because cell phones aren't really super popular in 99 and police are already looking for this guy
00:18:18
mhm so what ends up happening is the the vehicle that he has taken it it eventually breaks down and law
00:18:26
enforcement locate him on the side of Road when they encounter him they you know they're they're doing the
00:18:33
traditional things but keep in mind Shane's got Firearms with him by this point right and they know he does yeah a
00:18:39
reported stolen he had told some people you know friends and whatnot that he was
00:18:45
suicidal and that he was thinking about doing suicide by cop well in this situation suicide by cop yes and in this
00:18:55
situation he ends up reaching for the gun there's two different stories here one story is that he pulled the gun on
00:19:01
the officer the other story is that he was reaching for the gun what ends up happening is that the officer shoots
00:19:08
Shane and he kills him and what will be disputed though is what was the interaction between the officer and
00:19:14
Shane this is Oklahoma law enforcement officer David Hayes he shot and killed Shane on January 8th
00:19:23
1999 now the incident was investigated and Hayes's actions were found to be Justified David Hayes acted in
00:19:31
self-defense the Freemans believed that Shane was attempting to run away from Hayes at the time of his death several
00:19:39
of their family members believe that the autopsy results proved that Shane was killed as he he his back was turned to
00:19:48
the officer right so the Bullet entry would have been in Shane's back we can't say that for certain what we can say is
00:19:55
that the family members believed that his back was turned mhm that the incident was investigated and it was
00:20:01
ruled to be a Justified shooting now this is what's going to bring on this whole kind of thing that's going on
00:20:10
between Danny Freeman and law enforcement Because he believes that his son was murdered by the police now Dany
00:20:18
reportedly inquired about the location of David Hay's residence this was one month after his son was killed
00:20:27
investigators apparently believed that Dany was planning some kind of Revenge uh against Shane's death the Freeman
00:20:35
claimed that several officer Vehicles were parked in front of their trailer after after he had inquired about their
00:20:42
residence the way that I've heard that this has gone down was that that Dany would go and he would park his vehicle
00:20:50
in front of the officer's home and he would kind of follow around his family members from time to time and this is
00:20:58
mind you like we said this is a small town there's not a lot of people there these things don't go
00:21:04
unnoticed and so what ends up happening is we have a situation where it looks like Dany might be harassing law
00:21:10
enforcement or their families and then the Freemans believe that in turn law enforcement starts harassing them by
00:21:18
parking their vehicles in front of the Freeman home well right obviously that law enforcement has they have to protect
00:21:26
themselves and they have to protect their family on the flip side of things though Danny just lost his son and even
00:21:32
if it was based off his own actions that he you know wanted to have suicide by a
00:21:38
cop or or you know he I'm going to pull out a gun and they're going to shoot me or maybe he's just going to pull out the
00:21:43
gun to shoot at the officer he he lost his son you know and and so that grief is a lot to deal with
00:21:52
I mean you shouldn't go around harassing people but it's like I I kind of feel for him on that on that angle
00:21:58
now law enforcement they start following Danny basically everywhere he's going maybe looking for any reason to pull him
00:22:05
over or give him a citation or arrest him for something uh but he believes that he's being harassed by this point
00:22:11
to the point where he informs his brother as well as other family members stating that if anything ever would were
00:22:18
to happen to me um you know look at the sheriff department they they're the ones
00:22:23
that that are harassing me and you know he also gave a state that he said to the fact that when he
00:22:31
was uh in some kind of verbal altercation with law enforcement that they had told him that they could do
00:22:38
whatever they wanted to him and Danny's Family there was nothing that they could
00:22:43
do to stop them all right well but this is secondhand you know we don't know that this this interaction actually took
00:22:49
place or those exact words were said well we've all been pulled over by you know some jack wagon officer right
00:22:57
that's just run in their mouth you know over nothing so whether or not a police officer was in an altercation you know
00:23:05
verbal altercation with Danny and he's saying hey we'll do whatever we want we are the law yeah I Am the Law whatever
00:23:12
it is that doesn't necessarily mean that they are responsible for these deaths well we have this situation though here
00:23:20
Captain where two months after the death of Shane now Danny Freeman he's got to go on trial for the child abuse charg
00:23:28
and this takes place in March of 1999 the jury ended up they deadlocked on the situation because they asked the
00:23:36
judge if they could order Dany to attend counseling rather than to send him to jail or to prison right uh the judge
00:23:45
says no you can't do that this is this is the sentence he's he's either guilty and he's going to face these charges and
00:23:51
get sentenced in this way or he's not guilty and I think this is a tough thing for the the jury to to make a call on
00:24:00
here because we got a we got a case where we don't have the number one witness the the the the kid that was was
00:24:09
supposedly abused um we don't have him there to testify as to what took place in that situation and now you have to
00:24:17
question app parents you know where's the line when you discipline your child um so what they end up stating is that
00:24:25
they he's acquitted of these charges because they wanted to send him to counseling but the judge would not allow
00:24:31
it after the death of Kathy Freeman her father and mother they were telling people that you know Dany not only did
00:24:39
he have this bad temper but he was also abusive to his wife and to both of his children um so this leads us to some of
00:24:49
the early theories in this case one of those theories being that after years of physical abuse Ashley with the help of
00:24:58
her friend they shoot the parents with one of the parents own guns with their guns and they flee the area the next
00:25:08
theory is very similar to that but that the two girls left town with two men or boys that that may have assisted them in
00:25:16
the attack on Ashley's parents the third theory that we should discuss here is the police killed Dany and then his
00:25:24
family and set the fire to destroy evidence Theory number four is that law enforcement wasn't involved and Danny
00:25:31
was targeted due to drug activity Theory number five is that the girls were the actual Target that the motivation for
00:25:39
the attack was abduction and that the parents were killed and the fire was set just to Simply hide evidence and the
00:25:46
final theory is that someone that knew the family had killed and abducted the girls the this would be any example that
00:25:55
you can imagine but you could also consider possibly the boyfriend Jeremy Hurst who was there that night as well
00:26:01
as relatives of Danny's that were at the trailer that night so those are the the
00:26:06
Six Theories that they're working off of early into this investigation I think we
00:26:11
kind of need to look at this evidence and point us in the right direction and what theory makes the most sense let's
00:26:16
get into that right after this quick beer [Music] break this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] all right we're back cheers mates make sure you support our sponsors cuz they
00:28:40
support us all right let's get to this evidence yes so we both we know that both Dany and Kathy had died of a result
00:28:48
of gunshot wounds MH the medical examiner determined that Danny's right collar bone had been fractured prior to
00:28:56
the Fatal shot the coroner also determined that Kathy died approximately 5 a.m. that morning
00:29:04
and of course investigators believe that the fire was intentionally set in an attempt to destroy evidence of the
00:29:12
crimes now regarding the Family itself regarding the Freeman Family in their home Lorraine Bible told reporters that
00:29:21
Ashley Freeman had been saving her money to purchase her first vehicle when she turned 16 in December of 1999 Lorraine
00:29:29
said that she believed that Ashley had accumulated $1,200 in her savings account now Jeremy Hurst the boyfriend
00:29:38
said that Ashley actually didn't have a savings account um but Ashley had told him that she had saved between $3,000
00:29:48
and $4,000 for her first vehicle she was employed part-time at Rosco which is a convenience store in Welch uh Jeremy
00:29:58
went on to say that that you know she didn't have a bank account and she kept her money sealed in tupperware in a
00:30:04
tupperware container and the family's freezer authorities were unable to locate any evidence of the cash after
00:30:13
the fire Lorraine stated that Ashley and Dany had been arguing earlier in the month regarding the vehicle you know she
00:30:22
wanted to purchase a certain vehicle he had a different one in mind and they were not agreeing
00:30:27
we've all kind of been there you know the teenager has earned their own money they want to make their own decisions
00:30:33
with their money and you know Dad is disagreeing with her well some of that could just be telling a tall tale as
00:30:42
well you know like well first of all you're telling your friend's parents well I got a savings account well
00:30:49
where's the evidence of that you know now that they're missing and then on top of that you're telling the boyfriend
00:30:55
well you got you got three to for Grand which where's the evidence that he had any
00:31:01
money um the the other thing here too which I want to kind of talk about this for a little bit because because it's
00:31:09
very unclear now the authorities at some point disclosed that there were rumors that Ashley had been sexually abused but
00:31:17
they were unable to confirm these rumors well that's why the father that's why I
00:31:23
wanted to talk about this because it nowhere does it claim to state by who you know could it have been could it
00:31:30
have been her father her her brother could have been a family friend or or you know somebody at the school right um
00:31:38
when you say sexually abused you know your your your imagination wonders immediately who could it be but we don't
00:31:45
have anybody to point the finger at the other thing I I kind of thought about here in this situation was we have you
00:31:53
have a whole you know this town of 600 people and a day goes by where the town the people of the Town they're under the
00:32:00
belief that the father killed the mother abducted his daughter and her friend well is that long enough that's got to
00:32:09
be long enough for the the people in the town to start you know talking about these rumors well if he abducted those
00:32:15
two girls he must have been sexually abusing her um and I I wonder if I think it's a little irresponsible of law
00:32:22
enforcement to say that there were rumors of this um but we're unable B to confirm these rumors again a very small
00:32:30
community so not probably the best or most uh Advanced law enforcement unit in the in the world here and that's causes
00:32:40
a lot of problems cuz one you leave the crime scene without knowing how many victims are there MH and then then you
00:32:48
don't close off that crime scene and you allow people to come in there and contaminate it and then on top of that
00:32:55
now we got this third third thing where you're creating rumors right and and you're you're
00:33:02
fueling the fire really is what you're doing and and you know but you're creative you're creating a motive and
00:33:08
what I'm saying is that the birth of those rumors could very well be that because they didn't discover Danny's
00:33:14
body until the following day well and right but that's if those rumors are established then or if they're
00:33:19
established after because if you establish that oh well there's rumors that she was uh sexually abused you're
00:33:27
creating a motive on why the girls would want to kill the parents mhm and I feel
00:33:34
like whoever is establishing look I've said it before there's been several cases that we covered and oddly people
00:33:41
will establish Alibi they're creating their own Alibi and when somebody starts creating their own Alibi that to me
00:33:50
that's a a sign of guilt right mhm and so it's odd than on the other side of the spectrum
00:33:57
when people are creating a narrative for motive for you to look at some other individual right and to me that's a
00:34:06
shade of guilt so you're what to be clear what you're saying is that the the sheriff's department by stating that
00:34:14
there's there are rumors of her being sexually abused that that's almost creating an alibi for the sheriff's
00:34:21
department because you're presenting a whole different theory that does not involve the sheriff's having committed
00:34:27
any crimes correct and and first of all it's just very irresponsible that you're
00:34:33
stating well there's rumors don't State rumors you're the law enforcement state facts State evidence I wish we knew
00:34:41
exactly how this went down and I'll tell you why because could it be something as
00:34:45
simple as as the Sheriff's Department's being interviewed they're asked by a reporter hey there there have been
00:34:52
rumors that Ashley was sexually abused and the sheriff simply says we have heard heard those rumors right and that
00:34:58
changes the whole then you have somebody later going on the record stating that the sheriff's department says that there
00:35:05
were rumors of her being sexually abused when really they're just acknowledging that they have heard those rumors I I
00:35:11
see what you're saying with them establishing an alibi I don't know that it's that for me because for me it for
00:35:17
me it seems like there was opportunity if that kind of stuff was going down um with how close Ashley was with Laura
00:35:25
they spoke on the phone all of the time and it seems to me like Loren uh Laura's
00:35:31
mom seemed to know a lot of what was going on in the Freeman household well she knew what she was told MH and there
00:35:40
was also that that mandatory counseling that took place as well regarding um the
00:35:46
situation with Shane so what I'm getting at is I think there was opportunity for
00:35:50
that to come out where I I Feel Like These are rumors that were just kind of created by the town's people during
00:35:56
during that time period that they felt that that she was abducted by her father and we know how these rumors go right
00:36:04
it's it's like the The NeverEnding game of telephone now you got 600 people involved where if I say you know what I
00:36:10
bet you he was sexually abusing her and that's why he took her and abducted her and then 24 hours later we find out poor
00:36:17
poor Danny he died too you know he was murdered and he was killed too we know that's not true but that doesn't
00:36:23
immediately put out the fire on those rumors well okay so answer me these couple questions one how did how did his
00:36:30
collar bone get broken right like do we know I mean is that reported uh this case is difficult
00:36:38
to cover because there wasn't it's such a small town and such a small community that there's just not a lot of you know
00:36:45
information as far as it goes on the internet so the but how but because there's multiple ways that that could
00:36:51
have been broken I mean could have been that collar bone could have been broken it's not too different difficult to
00:36:57
break a collar bone no it could be broke by a fist it could be a butt of a shotgun um and then what what is the
00:37:06
evidence that points of what kind of guns were they killed with right well they've not the law enforcement has not
00:37:12
disclosed what kind of gun they were shot with of course that they've they've held that back as well as they have
00:37:19
admitted that there was an accelerant used to start the fire this wasn't an accidental fire that happened after the
00:37:26
fact uh they know that an accelerant was used but they've also not stated What What In
00:37:31
fact that was now the thing here is if you were to be considering that the girls did it uh or were involved in it
00:37:40
you know we have okay we have a situation where the Freemans they had a lot of firearms in that home they could
00:37:46
have under that sit situation or scenario they could have been killed with one of their own firearms well and
00:37:53
the other problem there is they're Avid Hunters and the gun laws were different also
00:37:59
back then so how many guns were in the house that were weren't registered I mean there would be no way of knowing CU
00:38:05
cuz the two people that would know they're dead yeah so if there's a shotgun missing we wouldn't know so if
00:38:12
you have if you get the ballistics right if you if you're trying to test to to confirm if they were killed with one of
00:38:19
their own firearms you wouldn't be able if that firearm was not found in that home you couldn't confirm that one of
00:38:27
their own firearms were used because you would assume that if you didn't find it
00:38:31
that it was either taken from the scene or that the perpetrators brought their own firearms with them let's talk about
00:38:38
the the Freeman the house real quick okay so the Freeman's trailer it did not have running water um it was primarily
00:38:45
heated by a wood burning stove that was located in the living room um the family
00:38:51
as you had said was described as Avid Hunters uh an outdoor Enthusiast who enjoyed living in a remote location this
00:38:59
was a very remote location the trailer was equipped with a telephone and electricity uh there were numerous
00:39:06
Firearms stockpiled inside the home and Ashley assisted with hunting food the family would go out and sometimes hunt
00:39:14
their own food food Dany enjoyed walking outside on their property behind the mobile home uh he was a collector of
00:39:24
arrowheads um and his relative stated that he had an extensive collection of items that he had found that were
00:39:32
rumored to be valuable here's another one of these rumors right but we don't you don't well that's causing a motive
00:39:39
of the idea that somebody came in to break into the house to steal valuables and they killed two people in the
00:39:46
process and possibly stealing the cash that uh young Ashley was keeping in the freezer which I would argue that that is
00:39:53
more likely to happen if you live in a remote remote area I know that's going to sound maybe a little strange to some
00:40:00
people but I'm serious it's like when especially if you I've lived you know my house you're exactly right you are
00:40:06
exactly go ahead sorry but you know my house was out of the city a little bit and if somebody's coming onto my
00:40:13
property to steal something it could end up very bad for for me or them mhm so that that's all I'm saying is if you and
00:40:23
you also it's such a small town that you'd go well they're an avid Avid Hunter if I'm going to rob this person
00:40:31
we know how this is going down this is this is this is robbery by force MH and again but then that also goes with the
00:40:38
creating the motive because if he has drug activity then maybe it's like well uh you know he has a bunch of guns maybe
00:40:46
he has some drugs there maybe he has some drug money there you know yeah and we should talk about this drug activity
00:40:54
because there's there's several yeah so it's not just rumor right there's there's a lot of different stories about
00:41:00
what drug activity could have been going on in in the area so it's believed that
00:41:06
Dany was himself a drug user um that well but there's different kinds of drugs yeah and it's believed it's it's
00:41:14
pretty widely believed that he grew marijuana somewhere on that property for his own personal use MH okay so that's
00:41:22
that's what's widely believed there are some other things that come into play here though there are some people that
00:41:28
state that he was he was selling marijuana right that he was in cahoots with somebody else and they had a little
00:41:36
drug operation where they were both moving and potentially growing marijuana um there was one report that
00:41:43
stated that inside the trailer and I want to be very clear about this one single report out of all the little
00:41:50
reports out there there's one single report that says that they found evidence of drug manufacturer
00:41:57
which to me using those words is completely different than growing marijuana unless unless unless you're
00:42:04
claiming that mother nature is your manufacturer of marijuana so what that sounds like to me is that they must have
00:42:10
found some kind of drug equipment you know some kind of creating these drugs equipment now I don't think that he was
00:42:17
running any kind of meth operation because why not we've seen well because this is just my belief I have no
00:42:24
evidence of such but we have seen where where certain people will use certain terminology and certain
00:42:33
words and then when you dig down deep and you find out exactly what they're talking about well they've kind of
00:42:40
they've kind of stretched it a bit right they've kind of embellished a little bit
00:42:44
where evidence of drug manufacturing could be something as simple as that they found a small digital scale
00:42:51
somewhere in the trailer that might not have had anything to do with drugs at all but but right I get I get your point
00:43:00
see where I'm going with this if you if you find a digital scale and you find a stack of baggies that doesn't
00:43:06
necessarily mean that I'm manufacturing drugs be well right but they could be used for pot as well look if you're
00:43:12
growing your own pot to smoke it I I got nothing against you and if you have a little extra and you're selling a baggie
00:43:19
here or there to your buddy that's not to me that's you're not a drug dealer mhm you're just kind of helping out your
00:43:26
buddies that's not like drug operation but one report now let's go let's let's dive into this a little bit
00:43:34
because it's 1999 this is not a wide uh you know it's not this epidemic like it is now you
00:43:42
know heroin and crystal meth and all that stuff in these rural areas now it's killing the it's killing the country
00:43:50
so so maybe there's only one report because a lot of that crystal meth stuff is kind of household items and you might
00:43:59
not really know what it was that's true yep also accelerant well this stuff is very
00:44:07
flammable mhm so was that what was used for the accelerant it's almost like because of the lack of evidence or the
00:44:15
lack of them collecting the evidence or the lack of them presenting the evidence
00:44:19
to the public it just becomes more question after more question and we can speculate on that all day but I but to
00:44:28
me a a family that's not doing so well financially wants to move out to the country which nothing wrong with that
00:44:36
but maybe the the father was also using this as an opportunity to make in Meet yeah like
00:44:43
we're going to move out onto some land on into this trailer but because we're doing that I'm going to have some job
00:44:51
opportunities and that's going to be drug activity mhm yeah and Kathy was the bread winner um she had a good job um
00:44:59
Dany from my understanding was kind was often unemployed uh usually between jobs and
00:45:06
like you said maybe uh maybe selling a little dope here or there was was a way to make up for that well this is what I
00:45:13
find okay first you're the bread winner you're the mom this guy has a shitty temper you know and we know that he's
00:45:20
abusive to to your son so chances are he's abusive to you just leave you know what I mean to find somebody
00:45:28
else some and I understand you're you're in a town of 600 people but I moov to another town yeah they were originally
00:45:37
from the neighboring town which had like over 6,000 people in it um I believe they moved there just a few years before
00:45:43
this whole incident went down um but yeah I'm with you it seems like a but again there's different Dynamics to
00:45:50
every family every relationship but it from the outside looking in it definitely seems like the Freeman family
00:45:58
was odd and dysfunctional well I'm just saying that she could love a winner with
00:46:04
money as much as she can this loser with nothing that's all I'm saying Okay so let's you know before we move on from
00:46:11
the evidence and start seeing how that might apply to these different theories and maybe kind of ruling some of them
00:46:18
out as we go uh one more thing regarding the evidence though the police did state
00:46:24
that remember we said that the the Freeman had telephone service to the trailer M they did state that there were
00:46:29
no outgoing phone calls from the Freeman's trailer late that night or during the early morning before the fire
00:46:36
was set and there's no report by anybody that we know of that they had a cell phone of any kind correct correct and
00:46:44
the thing here is too um you know we stated that all of the vehicles were out front uh that were located on the
00:46:50
property none of the vehicles were missing but regarding Laura's car that was still there uh the keys were found
00:46:57
in the ignition this is probably probably just means that she never took them out of the car um that the house
00:47:03
was quite a bit of a ways off of the road there might not be any need to do so but she did have a purse and she had
00:47:11
approximately $200 in that purse the purse was located inside the trailer after this incident took place so where
00:47:20
you have money that that is rumored to have been in the freezer a substantial amount of money depending on who you
00:47:26
talk to between $1,200 and $4,000 where that is not found um we also have a situation where there's
00:47:35
money found in a in a purse uh $200 that could have been taken that was left behind yeah but here's my issue with
00:47:42
that is law enforcement and a lot of people looking into this case like to say well there's $200 left in a purse so
00:47:49
there that proves that proves right there that this wasn't a robbery what well that doesn't prove crap that just
00:47:58
proves it wasn't a robbery for just money or you know random belongings this could have been a robbery just for drugs
00:48:07
or just for drug money mhm and so that doesn't really prove anything just because there was money left
00:48:15
somewhere that's all I'm putting out there it's just time and time again when you see this stuff about this case well
00:48:21
there's $200 left over so therefore that definitely wasn't a robbery I don't think anybody's saying that
00:48:28
because because everyone's saying that there's everybody that's what it's reported all the time it's every almost
00:48:34
every video that you ever see made on this thing is like well there's $200 left so chances are it wasn't a robbery
00:48:41
it just wasn't a good robbery maybe they made off with the $1200 or $4,000 that was in the freezer and thought well this
00:48:47
is all the money they got I'm peace I'm out of here right or like I said I mean if he had some drug activity then that's
00:48:54
why that's why people would be there you know for his drugs and for his drug money mhm so do should we go back
00:49:03
through these theories that we well no no I think let's stay on this $200 right now right okay I think that $200 to me
00:49:13
means it starts ruling out the idea for me that the girls would be involved right and that's why I asked if you
00:49:20
wanted to go back through the theories because Theory number one is that after years of physical abuse Ashley with the
00:49:26
help of Laura that they shoot the parents and with one of the guns that they find in the home and they together
00:49:34
they flee the area to go off and live Wonderful lives elsewhere away from this you know and I'll say quote unquote
00:49:43
abusive father well I think you can say abusive father just on the evidence of physical abuse not sexual abuse but we
00:49:50
can definitely say that there is enough evidence that shows that this guy he Ed Shane we we we have evidence of that I
00:49:58
don't know that we have evidence that he abused Ashley is what I mean what I meant by that we have all the
00:50:03
speculation or all the the accounts brought up by um you know her her grandparents but I
00:50:11
think calling somebody an abuser of it's a very powerful label to to put on somebody and and I see what you're
00:50:20
getting at half of me agrees with you but the other half of me I'm talking half of you is smart and the other half
00:50:27
is is and the smart half the smart half of me is is stating that in this situation we're talking about a
00:50:33
situation where Shane no longer exists yeah I understand we're talking about a situation where we're going to say did
00:50:39
Ashley kill or participate in the murder of her own parents because she was being
00:50:44
abused by her father is a very powerful statement and I don't think that speculation would would point me in that
00:50:52
direction strong enough for me to believe that I would want hardcore evidence that he was in fact abusing
00:50:59
specifically Ashley okay so what's your long-winded point my longwinded point here is that I don't know why the smart
00:51:05
half of me cannot fix the creek in this chair that I'm sitting on every time I move it so I apologize everybody out
00:51:12
there if you're hearing weird noises it's it's it's coming from his ass that's that's where the creek noise from
00:51:20
that area so I didn't have a long-winded point I think you got me upset because we're calling him a
00:51:26
specific specific abuse uh but but regarding this Theory so so what do you think here this first Theory yeah right
00:51:35
it doesn't add up it doesn't you're exactly right because and I think that's why we bring up the $200 in Laura's
00:51:42
purse it seems strange to me that Laura would leave behind her own money right or or her own purse correct um even if
00:51:51
you wanted to try to make it look like you were abducted I don't know that kids these are kids right I know they're 16
00:51:57
years old I know they're good students I know that they are smart young ladies the thing here is though I don't know
00:52:04
that that a kid would come up with this wild theory that you know what we can kill these two and we'll take off and
00:52:11
maybe we'll get lucky and they'll think we were abducted so leave behind your purse you know and furthermore well
00:52:18
furthermore none of the vehicles none of the family's vehicles or Laura's vehicle
00:52:22
was taken so by that by that point alone you can cross off Theory one in my opinion because now you have to have
00:52:31
outside help there has to be some form of trans Transportation getting you out of the area well look the purse behind
00:52:40
not that big of a deal leave the purse behind the cash is Big you need the cash right and you know but I don't know was
00:52:48
there cash in the freezer I'm going to say not look we we've all look the other question I have too which might seem a
00:52:55
lot pretty silly to everybody but but how long was she dating her boyfriend uh I don't know and the only
00:53:02
reason why I want to know is because sometimes in the initial stages you kind of just you know OV exaggerate maybe a
00:53:10
little bit MH you know I I've had that happen before I've been on a date where somebody's you know telling you what
00:53:16
they do for a living you know and they kind of a little braggadocious about it and and I think and and these are you
00:53:24
know women in their 30s right so what's a girl in their her six you know she's 16 years old oh I'm going to get a car
00:53:32
well what kind of car you're going to get well I'm going to get a nice one cuz well how do you got money for that well
00:53:37
I got a couple thousand saved up I got some cold Hard Cash in the freezer right the thing here is though Captain okay so
00:53:44
I want to uh kind of present something that I was thinking about the other day what if I were to think that maybe
00:53:53
Ashley killed her parents um could could the Tipping Point or could the trigger moment could that have
00:54:01
been if she came home and discovered that all of her hard-earned money that she had saved and saved and saved for
00:54:07
her very first car that her father had taken it from the freezer and went off and did something with the
00:54:14
money yeah not look I look I see that uh again then you're going to drag you're going to drag your friend into this MH
00:54:24
and it's we're going on how many years now well it's been 16 years yeah so 16 years you've been in hiding and your
00:54:32
friend hasn't came forward no and the other thing too is I think if it was based on the abuse right MH then here's
00:54:41
what would happen or this is my speculation you're overcome with whatever an embarrassment or whatever
00:54:51
you're feeling rage that your father would be abused towards you sexually or physically and you've had enough and and
00:55:00
I'm not going to take it anymore and you snap and shoot your father MH how does that go on to shooting your mother right
00:55:08
and then on top of that then you have to light your house on fire I mean other than you're covering up one one murder
00:55:14
with another yeah but I think for somebody that by all accounts you know was a good kid you know had something to
00:55:22
live for was progressing in her own life didn't seem like she had many problems you know she's celebrating a happy time
00:55:30
you know 16 is a a great time you know you're going to get your freedom you're going to get your Independence more
00:55:37
Independence 16 is a good time so it's a snap and then on top of that then you have to have a friend going along with
00:55:45
this and she's going to drop everything that's going on in her life and she's 16
00:55:49
and has a bunch to live for so she can just help you out now it's you know to doesn't seem too likely then and then
00:55:57
when you run away you're going to forget the two $200 right and I think that's what does all those things that you said
00:56:04
plus the the other fact that they didn't take a vehicle and they left the $200 you just you wouldn't do that you
00:56:11
wouldn't leave behind a car you wouldn't leave behind additional funds when you know you're planning on starting a whole
00:56:17
new life elsewhere because you got to run from these murders you committed and just like the captain was stating there
00:56:24
is nothing in the background of either of these two young ladies these were smart young ladies honor students they
00:56:33
were good they you know worked um it sounded like it sounds to me like Laura Bible's family life was probably much
00:56:41
different than Ashley Freeman's family life it does sound to me though that Ashley Freeman was very close with her
00:56:47
mother even if she hated her home life or hated her father she only had two more years to go to be out of that house
00:56:55
and I I just don't see anything in their background to point toward them having committed this and taken off yeah
00:57:03
because you know we don't know what kind of gun they were shot with the thing that points towards them
00:57:12
is that half the dude's face was missing and to me that would be a shotgun blast
00:57:18
to me a shotgun or a rifle would be something if she was going to use something I would assume that she would
00:57:23
use something that she is more familiar with and I'm again just also assuming that she'd be more familiar with a rifle
00:57:30
based on Hunting um but but then you have to have the [ __ ] you got to be one bad umbre to shoot your father in the
00:57:41
face with a with a rifle and keep in mind his his collar bone was broken this almost points towards some kind of
00:57:48
scuffle before he shot where I would think you know if you're this situation if you're going to shoot your parents
00:57:55
you're going to walk into their bedroom in the middle of the night and shoot them in their sleep you know that that's
00:57:59
typically how these things go down it wouldn't lead to some kind of altercation so I think you can scratch
00:58:05
off the first theory that the two girls did it themselves and took off on their own and that kind of helps us scratch
00:58:11
off Theory number two as well because it's basically the same Theory but that they they had the assistance of one or
00:58:18
two men or one or two boys that may have assisted in the attacks and that they left town with this person person or
00:58:25
persons what's Your Gut Feeling on the boyfriend I mean I look you know he claims he left at 9:30 a lot of other
00:58:32
people say well it's probably at 10:30 I um I I that that doesn't bother me either way you know if you're off a
00:58:39
little bit we're not talking about a detail there was people there afterwards right so to me that little detail is not
00:58:47
you know he's not being nefarious and trying to You Know cover his his ass you know but uh what's Your Gut feeling on
00:58:55
this guy so Jeremy Hurst my gut feeling is I like him um I don't like him I don't like him I don't like him as a
00:59:02
suspect well I he I don't even know if he's attractive or not but the thing here is Captain first of all I like you
00:59:09
said doesn't bother me that he's off approximately an hour on his time because the other dude that said he
00:59:14
stayed later could be off on his time right um what I think we have is a situation where he reports that he left
00:59:22
their home at at such and such time he probably he's a child he's under 18 he goes straight home to his parents
00:59:29
house his time is probably accounted for that's what I'm getting at that his time
00:59:34
between and it's a small window it's not like these people this crime happen sometime in the week of this no this
00:59:41
crime happened sometime between let's say 10:30 p.m. and we believe the mom was killed at 5:00 a.m. the next morning
00:59:49
right so it's a small window I believe his time was easily accounted for during the course of that time and on top of
00:59:55
this this is gonna seem kind of strange but I'm gonna say it anyway go for it the birthday gift that he purchased for
01:00:02
his girlfriend you know don't we all love that young love right that's that's that's great those those High School
01:00:09
romances that you have his birthday watch where you're going with this his birthday well we were all I was in high
01:00:15
school once when you were in high school school look high school romancers are okay when you're in high school I no
01:00:22
longer participate in high school Romance um but to me I going to need you around
01:00:28
Colonel and and I'm playing to the ladies now okay okay ladies hey how you doing Jeremy's birthday gift to his
01:00:35
young girlfriend seems to me to be well thought out that he didn't cut any corners on this birthday gift and what I
01:00:43
mean by that what did we say it was a a silver chain with a heart-shaped pendant
01:00:48
yeah that also contained her birth stone let me tell you men as a whole sorry sry
01:00:54
men now I'm not I'm playing against the men sorry men especially when men are 16
01:00:59
17 18 years old we do not know what birth stone you have depending on what month you're he what I'm getting at is I
01:01:08
think he he put in good effort right he put put together a thoughtful gift that tells me that I think he truly cared for
01:01:16
that young girl and that I think that because of such he wouldn't do anything to harm her family or harm her yeah
01:01:25
but if he really cared about her that much maybe he would harm the family and help her cover it
01:01:30
up I don't know but then but then he stays in town he doesn't leave with this this young girl that he's men have done
01:01:38
some strange things for ladies before but you point out a good a good reason why I think that theory number two can
01:01:44
be scratched off as well because okay if they have the had the assistance of a boy boys or couple of men or whatever
01:01:53
where and who are these men men and boys you know wouldn't they be reported missing at some point as well or you're
01:01:59
living in a town of 600 people right right when two of them disappear if there's another two missing it's pretty
01:02:06
obvious you know so I think we can scratch off theories number one and number two all right Colonel way to
01:02:13
scratch off some theories I'm not the colonel I hold no rank anywhere it's the captain the colonel show I'm Nick we're
01:02:22
we're changing the name of the show to the captain the Colonel True Crime Gage anyways thanks for listening and uh
01:02:29
we're going to have to get to these theories and there's some suspects that are going to come up in this next
01:02:35
episode plus we need to get your chair fixed cuz I'm tired of hearing your your butt squeak thanks for listening thanks
01:02:41
for telling a friend thanks for sharing on social media and until next time be good be kind and don't
01:02:53
litter [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dream
01:03:19
when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled
01:03:25
professionals to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that