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foreign [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] try the fudge they say try the fudge
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I know what that means it's good fudge I got I gotcha I got some you know some treats for the garage and
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go start printing Donuts every week no I'm beer and donuts try the fudge I'm obese no you're not the funny thing it's
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a funny thing that you mentioned fudge because I know you and I are drinking buddies but there's this thing called uh
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snack buddies and what that has to do with is the monster of Florence case Okay so
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there was this interesting article and it's quite lengthy I thought when I discovered this I thought I would
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bring it here to the garage today captain and read it to you but it's very lengthy so I think I'll just kind of
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tell you what it's about so at the end of May an article came out in a magazine called Tempe it's a
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Italian magazine and also an article in a newspaper over there that I believe once translated the the title of the
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newspaper would be called the journal I thought you're going to say the jerk well it's called The Jerk the
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interesting thing about this these articles that came out and they're one in the same from my understanding
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is a case that we covered about a year ago the monster of Florence which is one of my
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one of the cases that fascinates me the most as far as unknown serial killers you know who could this person be who is
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the monster of Florence well the this article claims to have knowledge of who the notorious serial killer is and the
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crazy thing is they refer to this man as Ulysses and okay apparently why is that a real
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name so it's it's my understanding is not a real name that it's just some kind of
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code name and I don't know if this is a code name that this person gave themselves or if
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or if the the person that did the interview came up with this name right does that Alias so I'm going to call
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this individual uh you Ulysses throughout the article the crazy thing though is this Ulysses person was
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actually referenced in the actual investigation for the monster of Florence so the way that this goes down
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now I want everybody to uh I need you Captain to understand that I'm kind of at the mercy of whoever translated this
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newspaper article because when you look it up it's it's an Italian magazine an Italian newspaper so when you go to look
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it up it's in Italian now there's been some people that have translated it to English and I do
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question if something's got Lost in Translation let's say um but mind you I'm giving you
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information but I'm at the mercy of that whoever translated this article all right well let's dive into this but
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these uh we covered monster of Florence an episode uh 124 and 125. so if you're not familiar with the case you might
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want to check those out uh before you continue to listen so the way that the way that I understand this is that this
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Ulysses guy was having a phone conversation with a biographer the biographer wants to write
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a biography about this Ulysses guy in his life so at some point during these talks
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this Ulysses guy tells the biographer I Am The Monster of Florence and not only am am I the monster of Florence I'm
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also the Zodiac Killer um what so say what so so let's break this down because it it actually it could be it is
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it is physically possible because so the the first Monster of Florence killing attack this was 1968 and there
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were two victims and then we have the Zodiac victims which was from 1968 December of 1968
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through October of 1969. now there are some people that claim that there are additional zodiac victims but these are
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considered uh David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen yeah are considered by most kind of agreed upon by all that
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the that is the first uh zodiac killing there is some thought that maybe that Sherry Joe Bates I believe was her name
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that she might be in fact the first zodiac uh victim right but physically possible seeing that the first Monster
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killings would have been August of 68 right then you have the Zodiac killings from 60 from December 68 through October
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69 and then it's not until 1974 that the monster of Florence starts killing again
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in Italy right so he there's a little break uh after the one in 68. and I mentioned snack friends or snacking
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friends and this is where I question a bit of the translation um that that I've been able to come
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across because the there's an article that once translated refers to snack buddies as
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being guilty as the monster of Florence meaning it was like thunder buddies well
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it was meaning that it was a group of guys and I believe one of them was uh tried for it and I I believe he was
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sentenced and then released later they determined that he couldn't be the monster of Florence because he goes away
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to prison and the monster continues to kill so the reason why I question the translation though is this this American
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article refers to it as snack buddies and and we covered monster of Florence and during that trial what the man
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referred to him and his group as were picnicking friends which I could see in a loose translation it's similar but
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it's not the same so well listen I mean you know to not to debunk the theory but
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it's very similar to like Andy Kaufman and how he would dress up as Tony Clifton uh and Bob's
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Buddha sabuda I think it's his name um when Andy passed away Bob then became Clifton Tony Clifton so
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no but that was putrefied but my my my point here is that if these were snack buddies or picnic uh picnic comrades
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right um they would one would go to jail and one could would continue um the killings and by continuing it
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then then people would start thinking that the person that's in jail we got the wrong guy
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yeah and that's certainly a possibility and here's the thing you know I and I do this too you know so
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I don't want to sound like I'm condemning anybody here but oh God I tend to do this myself I think
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sometimes we romanticize some of these serial killers and they're I think there was a there
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was a lot of thought so the the picnicking friends or snack buddies whatever you want to call them
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they're often referred to as this kind of group of bumbling idiots um they're the wet Bandits yeah and so
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there were a lot of people that when they put this dude on trial and when this stuff started to come out
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through the course of actual investigation people were going wait a second this monster of Florence should be somebody
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it should be like a Hannibal Lecter type like some brilliant uncatchable serial killer that goes around and he can just
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do whatever the hell he wants because he's smarter than the police he he can outwit them
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um now this new article would certainly Point towards uh what some people might determine to be a more
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deserving character of this actual identity of the monster of Florence and it being somebody that would be the
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Zodiac as well so they don't tell you who Ulysses is in the article it sounds to me like the biographer
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knows obviously knows the this Man's real name I don't know what they are doing with
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this information but I know that he is it sounds like he's working with investigators it also sounds like okay
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the person that wrote the article is working with the investigators right not Ulysses right
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so it sounds like Ulysses is an American that he is ex-us military an American citizen who at some point moved to
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Florence OR to Tuscany well and it could have been stationed out there you know yeah
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um but according to this article he he did the Zodiac killings then moved to Italy
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Okay so the the crazy thing here is the because people were like well you got to back
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this up you can't just say you had a phone call with I mean I could call somebody and go guess what
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I'm the monster of Florence I'm the Zodiac Killer I'm Santa Claus and I'm the Easter bunny as well I'm very busy
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you do kind of look like Santa Claus but uh the problem with that is you weren't
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born in 68 so right and so this biographer kind of backs up the information by saying look using
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information that this Ulysses provided to me I was able to uh solve some of the previously unsolved
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ciphers that were sent by the Zodiac oh nice I'm just a reminder I mean I I used to I
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blew up one of the ciphers and put it on my desk when I was working at the bank you know because you have the glass
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cover on your desk right and every time somebody sit down they'd go what's that I go nothing pay no attention to that
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pay no attention to the man behind the curtain the the this Ulysses character though one thing that I find fascinating
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and strange is that he also hints to the biographer that um the other people are aware
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that he is the monster of Florence and the crazy thing like I said was this Ulysses name came up during the course
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of the investigation and I believe it was uh Vianney it was a guy that we talked about quite
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a bit in the um right and that's in the monster of Florence but did Ulysses ever come up as far as the
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Zodiac I mean I understand that it's a fictitious name but I'm just no um but we got to keep in mind that that
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Ulysses comes up in the monster of Florence investigation and they would only be questioning these people about
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the monster of Florence these people even though they might know him as the monster they may not know that he was or
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claims to be the Zodiac as well right and so it's from what I understand is this Vianney uh
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apacheani who we talking I think I have his name right now it's pretty good I think he he references
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this Ulysses at some point and I think this was way back in 2005 when he was being investigated I don't know or
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remember exactly what he said about this Ulysses character but keep in mind this is when they were under the
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impression that the monster was a group of men right so they could have thought he was just
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using Ulysses as as a nickname or some kind of code name for somebody that they were already aware of right it sounds to
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me like this actual Ulysses guy is it has nothing to do with these these men right right it's a lone lone gunman so I
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did a little uh now keep in mind like I said this is this is all somebody else's
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article but from my understanding Captain what what I think makes this more interesting to me is that
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what I've seen online I have people there are uh Italian people that have said that the journal and this Tempe
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magazine are not they're not like you know like our National Enquirer right you know there's
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dollars or anything right they're not some kind of tabloid [ __ ] this is more like the New York Times or right
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we're not just throwing out juicy um you know slanderous things gossip man yes that's the words
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the crazy thing though Captain to me is it you have this they're they're actually similar crimes when you think
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about it when you if you take away the Paul Stein killing of the zodiac so the Zodiac killed Paul Stein who was a taxi
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cab driver he hired him to drive him to a location he shoots him and then he flees the taxi
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cab but with the exception of the murder of Paul Stein these are similar cases in the sense
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that we're talking about people you know a couple you know boy and girl man and woman gunned down inside their vehicle
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as they parked in a you know a Lover's Lane type situation so very similar in in style and in motive I guess
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so there there's a possibility for you the other thought too is there's a there's an unsolved Cipher out there and
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it's the one it's the my name is cipher and to be clear the Zodiac sent ciphers to newspapers uh
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to one reporter in particular Paul Avery I think was received some communication
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from the zodiac and the monster of Florence does not send ciphers to investigators or to newspapers or
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anything like that right but so when we have possibly because he's English speaking
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and thought you know that would be a kind of giveaway when we are referencing ciphers we're talking about the Zodiac
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so there's one unsolved Cipher the the my name is cipher and there's one that you know we have that information that
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that message this is this is the Zodiac speaking by the way have you cracked the
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last Cipher I sent you my name is well we're provided with the number of letters that this Cipher
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claims to give the Zodiac's name when you look at it you have no clue if it's going to be you know is he just
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saying I'm going to give you my last name or I'm going to give you my first name I'm going to give you my first and
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last name and looking at this captain the number of letters that are provided you could you could spell out the name
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and here's a name for you Joe belvlik Q all right so let me let me spell this out so Joe everybody knows the the name
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Joe but the last name would be b e v i l a c q this is my mother's maiden name and I
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swear to you this morning when I was eating Raisin Bran before I got my car to join you here I could say that name
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perfectly fine when I was sitting at the kitchen table but now that I'm in the garage not possible it's because you had
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a healthy breakfast so your brain was working correctly why does this name mean anything at all okay so
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well no I it's not just totally random that I came up with this name um so there's a guy
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and his name is guyzepi and then that last name b-e-v-i-l-a-c-q-u-e well why is he important he is important
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because he was the director of a cemetery in Florence this was at the time when the French
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couple was murdered and they were killed just 300 yards from his home so I'm wondering if this guy this Joe
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guy once he gets to Italy he's now gazeppi with the same last name this guy is an American we know he that
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he is in an American so I was just trying to figure out who could this article be talking about when they call
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this guy Ulysses and if so is there any tie to him to the actual one of the cases
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for all we know he could for some for this to be true Captain it doesn't necessarily mean that this guy
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has to be both the Zodiac and the monster of Florence he could be just the monster of Florence or he could just be
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the Zodiac right he could be completely hasn't lost his marbles all right because it seems a little weird that he
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would be telling this biographer now I want to do I do want to clear this up from my understanding this happened over
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the course of many conversations it wasn't like he just rang him on the phone and immediately admitted to being
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the most notorious serial killer Italy ring ring ring ring ring hello uh yeah I'm doing a uh article for my
00:19:04
paper are you the Zodi are you the Zodiac so yeah that might have went down that
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quick you don't know I we have no proof that it didn't the crazy thing though here's what if he was
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drunk and he just caught him at the right time and he was like who's this oh yeah
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I killed some people here's where my mind goes back to the Raisin Bran one I believe
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and I've always kind of had the suspicion that whoever the zodiac is or or was let's say he's not even still
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alive but I always believed and if he's not alive uh and he passed away slowly or of
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old age then he would have had control of this but if he died in like a car accident or if he was shot or you know
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some circumstance that he couldn't prevent then this still could be true I've always thought with the amount of
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communication that the Zodiac sent to newspapers and to law enforcement that at some point this dude would want
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credit let's say for being the Zodiac I agree with you on that just just like BTK what we learned from him as much as
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he still wanted to be a husband and a father right I think he on some level wanted the credit he wanted to come out
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of the closet let's say and go look all these years I fooled you guys I am BTK I
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am this smart monster that fooled and terrified all of you at all and then somebody that's capable of doing uh the
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Zodiac plus the monster of Florence to he could have came out to this paper and said okay I'm going to give you all this
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information I'm going to give you a breadcrumb but uh just hypothetically speaking guy could be sick knows he only
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has six months to a year left so I'm going to give you all this information and by the time it takes you to figure
00:21:03
out the other pieces of the puzzle as I give you more pieces and and now as investigators get involved if you catch
00:21:12
me before I die I'm going to die anyways so it could be something of that nature
00:21:18
if he in fact were able to provide answers that would ultimately solve the unsolvable ciphers sent from the Zodiac
00:21:28
that might be good enough for me to believe that he is in fact the Zodiac I think if if memory serves me correct
00:21:37
Captain I don't think there was any DNA regarding the the Zodiac case because I wonder if there's touch DNA of some kind
00:21:46
now I mean because that that technology wasn't around back then well and you have so Golden State killer is is caught
00:21:54
by this um you know people figuring out their their ancestry right and so there was some thought that cases
00:22:03
like the Zodiac and would be next you know we do know that he sent mailings a lot so did he lick any of those stamps
00:22:11
right but I couldn't find in all the years that I've read about zodiac and he's one of those guys that no matter
00:22:19
who covers it where and when I I listen I read I watch I've never come across anyone ever
00:22:27
saying that there is DNA on the Zodiac right now I bet you they have some form of DNA of
00:22:35
DNA on the monster of Florence if that in fact was investigated and treated properly if they knew to do that at the
00:22:42
time but you got to keep in mind monster Florence those those span over a decade those
00:22:49
killings so where they might not have known to do that in 68 and they wouldn't know to do it in 74 is there a chance
00:22:57
that in 84 and 85 when he killed again and these were very violent attacks these were different than the Zodiac
00:23:06
killings zodiac seems to me like he walked up to the door to near the car boom boom boom you know shoots the man
00:23:14
shoots the woman and then flees that's how a couple of those go down the Lake Berryessa murders are quite different in
00:23:22
the sense that he snuck up on the two in the park and ties them up and then stabs
00:23:28
them right so very up close and personal the monster attacks if it was in fact one guy that did all of the monster
00:23:36
attacks they kind of they were much more involved meaning that they you know remove parts of the
00:23:43
woman um would remove things from the vehicle after shooting the couple there was a
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couple times where a man or a woman escaped you know they they got out of the vehicle and took off fleeing and the
00:23:56
monster had to track them down on foot and hunt them like an like an animal is it the same caliber of gun
00:24:03
in because I wonder if they could do a ballistic test you know in in the Zodiac and the monster of Florence and if they
00:24:09
could connect them it doesn't have to be every uh all the victims it could have had different guns for different attacks
00:24:16
but if you could just link one of the zodiac with one of the monster of Florence uh attacks ballistically then
00:24:21
that that's pretty solid right there so I don't think that that's going to be the case
00:24:28
um I do know that the same weapon was used in all of the Monster Florence attacks uh it was a 22 Beretta
00:24:37
and the reason why I say I don't think that that's going to be the case is I don't think this man
00:24:44
he may not have had the means to be able to travel with a weapon well if he's being transferred um
00:24:52
you know by if he's in um the Army and he's being transferred you'd think that he would have
00:25:01
you know maybe there's a possibility that they'd be able to carry a gun right right but not everybody would and
00:25:09
so one I don't know that he would have the means to do that regardless of his position two
00:25:14
the thing is I the way that this sounds the way that this article reads is that this is not a conversation that
00:25:23
this biographer had a week ago you know even though this article came out you know at the end of May
00:25:30
it sounds like these conversations took place in 2017. he's probably provided a certain amount of information two
00:25:39
investigators already so a quick check of that would have been to look up what kind of uh uh weapon was used by the
00:25:49
Zodiac and I actually think the Zodiac killings were from my understanding if I if again if
00:25:57
memory serves me correct I think there was something interesting about the either the ammunition used or the gun
00:26:06
that was used I think that there's almost something to suggest there that maybe the Zodiac
00:26:12
manipulated the anima ammunition in some for some form I have put down just put down the booze and
00:26:22
walk away slowly let's put it down and walk away you also wonder have to wonder how much of an
00:26:28
ability would this man have to go back and forth from California to Italy you know even
00:26:36
even if you could find something that you go all right well these seem to have happened too close together or there's
00:26:43
crimes going on in Italy at this time and then stuff going on with the Zodiac in California over here right they can't
00:26:49
be the same killer um one one thing that would kind of Point toward that a little bit would be
00:26:57
um this deal with the 1968 case uh you know one being in August of 68 in Italy and one being in
00:27:08
December of 68 in California but like you said who knows could he have been stationed overseas could this repeat
00:27:16
that so the first attack happened when and where in August the first monster attack as I said
00:27:24
earlier was August of 1968. and the first zodiac well again what a lot of people consider to be the first
00:27:33
zodiac killing was December of 68. right so you are in Florence because you are stationed somewhere close
00:27:43
um you're stationed over there you commit this crime and then uh the Army sends you back home for a week or two
00:27:49
for for a Christmas vacation when you commit a crime over there well you have to
00:27:56
wonder too what is the moving that's a big move to move from one country to another to move
00:28:03
from California to Italy what does the move have to do with your career as a killer you know is it is it just
00:28:11
is it something like okay I feel like they're on to me here I feel like they're catching up with me and I'm
00:28:19
going to flee and I'm going to go move here and I'll kind of pick up where I left off
00:28:24
or is it just kind of happenstance is it is it are you a killer first and it had
00:28:30
nothing to do with them getting close to you or you getting nervous it's just hey
00:28:33
I've always wanted to retire and move to Italy so I'm retiring moving to Italy and I I'm a killer that's what I do so
00:28:43
I'll just do that here yeah or this idea that you know you you commit a crime now you're committing on
00:28:50
a crime on individual that you necessarily don't really know the victim or maybe spent some time stalking the
00:29:00
victim we don't know that for sure but this is a random victim so what better thing to do is one not be a resident you
00:29:09
know or quote unquote resident you commit this crime then you leave go to a different country so even if the if
00:29:16
investigators start trying to connect the dots if the dots even came close to you you're already gone
00:29:23
so and then you can kind of monitor the situation from afar now that would have been a lot harder to do without the
00:29:29
internet and stuff like that but it's you know still possible so according to this article I guess
00:29:35
this Ulysses guy states that he was living in Northern California in Santa Rosa during the time of several of the
00:29:46
zodiac crimes which actually would have put him somewhat close to those crime scenes as well
00:29:53
Captain I back to the thought you know we were going somewhere with this thought of I believe the Zodiac
00:30:00
would want credit right where the monster seems a little different to me in the sense that I
00:30:08
never felt like the monster wanted credit for or wanted the world to know that he was
00:30:15
the monster of Florence right but I always felt like so the monster did communicate with the public or with
00:30:21
investigators on a couple of occasions and how did they do that um he sent notes to I believe one
00:30:31
instance he sent a note with a body part to the prosecutor or the prosecutor's assistant how how long are these notes
00:30:40
though um they're not long they're they're short notes if I re I'm going off a memory remember we covered this case a
00:30:47
year ago um I think they were short notes but but ciphers in in in my humble opinion the
00:30:56
Zodiac messages were much different than the monster Florence messages and where
00:31:00
I'm going with this is is that I see I see a difference between the two personalities one of the Zodiac Zodiac
00:31:09
who would want credit for being the Zodiac would want the world to know I am the zodiac
00:31:17
the monster however the only from my understanding the times that he would communicate with the
00:31:23
investigators or with the public was when somebody else was going was being fingered as the monster
00:31:31
so where what I'm getting with this is the monster doesn't want to stand out in front of the world and say I am the
00:31:37
monster of Florence the monster in my opinion doesn't want credit for being the monster however he doesn't want
00:31:43
anybody else to get credit for being the monster as well yeah but I think the the
00:31:50
funny thing is that um I believe this Theory or this article kind of clears that up pretty simply I mean simply
00:31:57
stated that the Zodiac we believe this is a American man so what is his native language he'd be English speaking so
00:32:06
he'd contact the police through you know writing English letters and the ciphers
00:32:11
or English letters and so you commit these crimes over there and like I said if you're sending
00:32:19
um letters in English wouldn't that be kind of a giveaway well you're going under the assumption
00:32:27
that he would move to another country and not adapt to their language uh you know what I mean it would be it'd be
00:32:34
pretty obvious that it's an American that it's an or an English-speaking person if you sent those letters in
00:32:41
English right but right but what I'm also saying it's also kind of a tell if somebody is
00:32:48
um kind of generic in their knowledge of a foreign language as well right or not
00:32:55
using things correctly right like you know you know to be able to speak a little Spanish is is different than
00:33:01
being able to write a whole letter you know I mean I think anybody that has taken foreign language kind of
00:33:07
understands that you kind of you develop slowly and it becomes um it takes a long time to get to the
00:33:13
point where you're kind of writing fluent you know right I it's almost like you can speak it before you can actually
00:33:19
then make it make make it make sense on paper and obviously the the but that's why I'm wondering if they're short
00:33:27
letters because then you go okay well this person could have been able to put together
00:33:32
those simple uh letters for police and I could be wrong as stating that they're short but
00:33:39
I don't I don't recall them being of great length right neither do I but the the uh the thing here to me is
00:33:49
I wonder because the Zodiac to me what was what was his ritual what was uh maybe signature uh I get those confused
00:33:58
from time to time when we're talking about these serial killers but the thing that he had to do the thing that the
00:34:04
Zodiac had to do is much some is very similar to BTK where he they had to communicate with the
00:34:13
police or with the public they had to that that wasn't something that they could set aside
00:34:18
it was that portion of what they were doing was almost more important to them than the killing because communicating
00:34:26
with the police or the public is not something that that was necessary to do to carry out your fantasy of your sexual
00:34:34
fantasies or your fantasy of murder all you're doing by communicating with the police or the public is risking
00:34:41
you're putting yourself in a much higher risk of getting caught you're opening up yourself to them being
00:34:47
able to decipher some things about your personality words you choose to use where you could be from
00:34:54
yeah so the Zodiac to me has always been one of those weird situations where I feel
00:35:02
like he's very much like Dennis Rader in the sense that he's somebody that wants
00:35:07
credit that he wants to stand up in front of the world and go look I am the zodiac
00:35:12
but these communications did stop why did they stop was it because he moved to Italy or did something happen to the
00:35:19
Zodiac well again if you move to Italy I mean now you have to how are you going to get this uh
00:35:26
you can't send him a letter from Florence that's going to be a dead giveaway this is the Zodiac speaking
00:35:33
um hello from Italy right this is the zodiac all over well but the cipher like you said I mean you could you could
00:35:41
almost test this uh Ulysses character and say look we here's the ciphers that haven't been solved and what do they
00:35:48
mean and why yeah I think the thing that you're overlooking which you know I hate to you know make you
00:35:56
feel bad about yourself but you're overlooking something really important I mean we know who the zodiac is
00:36:04
oh see yeah but you're making a joke that nobody's going to be able to follow along with Oh Come well no because
00:36:13
there's the new Ed Edwards uh documentary people might have seen it I I haven't got a
00:36:19
chance to see it yet so hopefully maybe uh once I watch that I'll let you know if
00:36:25
it's good so because I'd like to talk about that sometime well just to mention what you're referencing there so we
00:36:33
don't totally lose out on the conversation so Ed Edwards is a he is a convicted serial killer he is somebody that's dead
00:36:42
he died in prison I don't remember the year but there's a gentleman out there that
00:36:49
believes that basically to put it to sum it up as simple as I possibly can it's almost like any unsolved serial
00:37:00
killer case is Ed Edwards it was guilty of that meaning like the Zodiac for one it was in fact Ed Edwards well let's let
00:37:11
me look this up so it looks like uh uh the documentary is called it was him okay because it wasn't the book called
00:37:19
It's me yeah so they probably couldn't use that so there was a but did Cold Case Cameron
00:37:26
did he work on this documentary that's coming in yeah the cast is Wayne Woofy and uh John Cameron which is
00:37:35
Cold Case Cameron and it looks like there's season one okay uh and it looks like
00:37:43
there's maybe six episodes what channel is it going to be on Netflix this well right now it just says
00:37:51
available on YouTube oh and which I have YouTube Red so but it says 199. so the book was called it's me and the
00:38:01
documentary that appears to be a season uh docu-series is called it was him right uh look I do here I'll agree with
00:38:12
Cold Case Cameron on one thing I do think Ed Edwards probably committed some very terrible crimes if not in fact
00:38:19
murders that that he was not convicted of I just don't know that he was the Zodiac
00:38:25
so why does Cold Case Cameron the the the without having read his book I should I should say that I've not read
00:38:32
the book right because in all fairness to to Cameron before I try to pick his theory apart oh no I think I I look uh I
00:38:40
think um Cold Case Cameron is a very intelligent guy I think he makes giant leaps he there there are connection
00:38:48
points so I mean the the main thing is the the attack that went down in the park with the couple that survived and
00:38:55
the Zodiac said that he spent time in a certain prison in Montana yeah so I think that's the I think
00:39:03
that's the prison but um but this uh you know and he said it was a couple years ago uh
00:39:11
this would have lined up with the same time that Ed Edwards was in that same prison so there is a connection and but
00:39:18
what happens with Cold Case Cameron is he takes that one connection and then he goes through these other
00:39:24
connections now in the Zodiac there's more connections because Ed Edwards was also a Lover Lane type killer so that
00:39:33
AdWords Theory as far as the Zodiac goes there's at least two connection points there you know similar style killings
00:39:41
and you're right it was the the couple that was attacked at Lake Berryessa he ties up the the boy I say boy but they
00:39:49
were young they were younger than me the young man and the young woman and as he's tying them up he tells them look he
00:39:57
references something to have served time in this specific prison in Montana and we know that the Zodiac said that
00:40:04
because the young the young man survives the the attack the young woman does not
00:40:10
but the young man says look this is how he talked this is how he was kind of a stocky guy uh he was about this height
00:40:18
and he said this to me did she die at the scene or did she live for a while they were um not
00:40:29
they were both stabbed repeatedly and I believe that if I I believe that he phoned in he being the zodiac
00:40:38
phoned in this attack and they were found there tied up and stabbed and I think uh I I I she may have died when they
00:40:49
were transporting her right or she was dead when upon arrival I don't remember but
00:40:56
you know what's weird and I don't know that we got into this during the BTK discussion
00:41:02
but one thing that was weird you know I I believe that a lot of these serial killers that they kind of learn
00:41:10
from one another and it's interesting that the Zodiac says as he's tying them up and I think he says
00:41:20
to them look I just need your keys and your wallet and I'm gonna get it I'm gonna Escape
00:41:26
convict I need keys in your wallet because I'm going to take your car because I'm gonna travel somewhere right
00:41:31
and BTK would say almost the exact same thing to his victims as he was tying them up trying to put them at ease
00:41:40
stating that look if you just let me if you just cooperate let me tie you up I just need to tie up so I have some time
00:41:46
to get away and I'm going to steal your food your money and your car and I'm driving out of this state well on a
00:41:53
point that would probably go against Cold Case Cameron is the idea when you think about what the BTK is saying now
00:41:59
maybe he just stole that from the Zodiac but what better thing to do is to say not you know Not only was I locked up
00:42:07
but I was locked up here right and you were never locked up and if you're never locked up then just the time and the
00:42:15
effort that the okay we have a convicted felon or convicted whatever that spent some time in this jail and we think he
00:42:24
now might be the Zodiac now you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of inmates you're talking about
00:42:30
so many man hours for the cops to have to go through and process so um is it is it possible that the Zodiac
00:42:38
was just completely bullshitting just like BDK was yeah but where I was going with that was
00:42:45
I feel like Dennis Rader was stealing that from the Zodiac he's right right he's he's looking at a situation where
00:42:52
it worked and he's like you know what I I'm going to I need something to calm these people down
00:42:57
so I can get them bind them that's the most important thing to me is binding them just like I said with zodiac most
00:43:04
important thing to him seems to be the communication the communication afterwards these are both things that
00:43:10
aren't necessary to The Killing but they're necessary to the fantasy of their serial killing career let's call
00:43:18
it for a lack of a better term yeah no I totally believe that I mean I think a lot of these killers too I mean
00:43:25
even in the mass murdering case of like um a new town we saw that uh that perpetrator then set
00:43:34
there and made a list and basically kind of you know statistics on the different Killers to
00:43:41
almost almost in a way to study all of those and to see where they can try to put themselves on the list so I
00:43:48
definitely think that stuff's happening but also I you know you're going to find
00:43:52
this conversation that I had with a William Ramsey pretty interesting he's a author of many books
00:43:59
um probably most famous for Abomination uh case study on The West Memphis Three but we were talking and his theory on
00:44:07
the smiley face Killers even more in depth on that idea of learning from other Killers well here's the thing you
00:44:15
know Joel Rifkin so Joel Rifkin killed prostitutes and working girls in New York
00:44:23
okay and he was arrested for this and he said that when he would he had these sexual fantasies these murderous sexual
00:44:30
fantasies from a young age and when he got a little bit older I don't know if it was like if he was like 20 I don't
00:44:37
know if he had killed by this point but he said he picked up a book about the Green River Killer
00:44:44
and he goes look everybody else reads this book and it's a fascinating Manhunt how do we catch the Green River Killer
00:44:52
he goes somebody like me reads this book it's a how-to book it's a how to get away and how to be a serial killer and
00:45:02
get away with it I get to read this book about this guy that's doing all these horrible things guess what his
00:45:08
victimology is almost the same as mine and he's gone all these years without getting caught well yeah but I can use
00:45:15
some things from from that book [Music] [Applause]