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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:43
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me is always America's Native Son ladies and gentlemen the pride of
00:01:50
Columbus he is the captain thank you thank you thank you they've been trying to evict me for years but I ain't going
00:01:56
nowhere it's good to be seen and it's good to see you [Music] today we are drinking Cross of gold by
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Revolution Brewing Company in Chicago Illinois garage grade four out of five bottle caps this is a lighter beer a
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crisp golden ale with a delicate hop finish they brew this with a little bit of Wheat and there's a tiny hint of
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Honey Cross of gold was the 2012 World beer cup Gold Medal winner and gold medals go out to everybody that shipped
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in for this week's round of beers first up a big thank you to Peggy and Arena Wisconsin a big shout out to Karissa and
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Hampton Connecticut next we have lesie from Boston who says try Blue Moon cappuccino and we also have Carmel
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sending hugs and kisses from Blue Earth Minnesota so we went from Blue Moon to Blue Earth there Captain well you've
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always been known as an astronaut next we say hi and thank you to Chelsea from Durham North Carolina she says she loves
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the show to told us to beat easy I don't know what that means just take it easy captain no we're not going to be easy
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last but not least we have Brennan from PE all up Washington that's how he told me how to
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say it I I'm I'm the captain I am from yeah that's where we're both from after about
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five beers well thanks to everybody for donating to the Beer fun if you'd like to do so go to True Crim garage.com and
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click on the Donate button yeah and for any garage merchandise or old episodes that's where you're going to find it at
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true Crim garage.com also we got the blog there so if you're interested in having some more in depth conversations
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we we like to do so through the blog also all social media Facebook Snapchat Twitter Instagram all that stuff you can
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find us at True Crime garage all right that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
00:03:56
let's talk some true crime [Music] the murder of father Alfred Coons he was killed in his church back in
00:04:16
1998 there has been some argument uh recently Captain if this is a cold case or if it's a case that there's still
00:04:23
plenty of leads uh depending on which investigator or journalist you talk to you're going to get both sides of the
00:04:30
argument that it's either a cold case or there's there's plenty of fuel there uh
00:04:35
keeping this investigation going well yeah I'm not going to listen to the journalist I'm going to listen to the
00:04:40
detective and the detective said at least uh I think there last year within the last year he said it's not cold cuz
00:04:49
it's not sitting on some shelf somewhere there's still a unit that is assigned to
00:04:53
this investigation right and but but I did say depending on which investigator detective you speak with because there
00:05:00
have been some detectives along the way that said you know what I don't think that we're ever going to see this thing
00:05:08
uh solved I don't think we're ever going to see a conviction here and but you're
00:05:12
right as more recently the there seems to be some um detectives involved that believe that we could see this thing
00:05:20
work itself out uh they might be waiting for a little luck they might be waiting
00:05:25
for um the right clue or possibly you know a confession some times these confessions can happen as the years go
00:05:32
by all right so where we were at before was the theories and the the first Theory primarily was was this some kind
00:05:40
of satanic killing MH and uh again my theories on that um I I for me I think they would be they'd leave some
00:05:50
signature now his friend that was a priest uh what was his name fiori or Martin Martin Martin is the one that
00:05:59
brought up the fact that well there's possibly some satanic cult within the church and
00:06:08
I think if he was killed by one of them to shut him up for what he was saying on
00:06:13
his radio show I don't think there would be some kind of signature Mark left we don't know if there was or wasn't
00:06:21
because this again a lot of this investigation has been closed you know close to the chest mhm now what I would
00:06:28
argue and and I think we differ on some of this because you said earlier yeah rightfully so a lot of the stuff should
00:06:35
be kept close to the vest I think as you know we're talking about many years have
00:06:41
passed right you know I think investigators need to the more evidence that you release the more leads you will
00:06:49
get and I know some of those leads that you'll get are going to be kind of a waste of time but you're going to get
00:06:55
more leads so if there was some kind of signature we don't know and if there is they might might want to release that
00:07:03
right and you and I have both voiced publicly here uh that you know regarding the Amy mahalic the garage is not public
00:07:12
dude uh but regarding the Amy mahalic case uh here from Ohio when they released information that they did say
00:07:20
when they released the information they said look we're not certain if this is tied to the case or if or if it's not um
00:07:27
you know it could be but this this item these drapes were found in the area found near her body and but but they
00:07:36
released this information what 20 25 years later and it's like um okay yeah as you're saying with Father Coon's
00:07:43
murder this takes place in 1998 yes there there could be um there would be reason to release some of that
00:07:50
to to maybe have somebody point the finger at the right guy especially especially when they come out and say
00:07:57
you know we believe that this guy would would have had obvious signs of injury probably on his face after this murder
00:08:05
took place so we're talking about a town of 6 700 people if if in fact somebody from the town committed that crime well
00:08:15
um it's not too hard to tie those two things together well in law law enforcement's defense you know back in
00:08:21
1998 I don't think they had a lot of um uh what would be the word I don't think they had a lot of Hope or a lot of I
00:08:30
don't think they put a lot of weight into armchair detectives and I think you're seeing now like even with the
00:08:35
deli murders when they come out with that new suspect drawing uh you know we released that I I've been getting so
00:08:42
many uh you know we have the sketch that they released with the deli murders but
00:08:47
I've been getting pictures of suspects that look similar and then I get a whole background of this individual and I go
00:08:55
well how did you get this how did you get the background of this individual oh I did my research so I I think uh once
00:09:02
law enforcement starts put in a little more weight into armchair detectives and web Luthers you know I think some of
00:09:08
these things would wouldn't go c as cold so fast right and I have to agree with you Captain back to something you said
00:09:16
earlier regarding the satanic aspect of this murder um I'm with you I think if it was some teenage group of Satanist or
00:09:24
some random group of satanists that they might have made it clear at the crime scene there would have been been some
00:09:31
kind of visual display of such uh if it was some kind of weird satanic thing going on within the church I think
00:09:39
you're right they would be quiet about that it wouldn't be something that they would make so obvious for
00:09:44
investigators um so that's the first theory yes regarding the investigation itself I'm going to take you just real
00:09:52
quick this is Dane County Sheriff Hamlin um he is uh he he notes in this article
00:09:58
in his interview that he is a lifelong Catholic uh he does admit that the investigation has been tedious and
00:10:06
frustrating uh he said that they had Tracked Down thousands of tips from the public and they were checking and rre
00:10:14
rechecking what is now a room full of detailed police reports uh he says I don't know how many people we've spoke
00:10:22
to I do know that it's been quite a number of people it's been all the way from one Coast to the other end of the
00:10:28
country country as far as people that they've spoke with now in this same interview one by one he dismisses the
00:10:37
more uh fanciful possibilities uh in this case and he dismisses them outright uh the first being something we spoke
00:10:46
about yesterday the calf mutilation connection he States nope you know that was there any connection between Father
00:10:54
Coons in the death of this calf he says Nope there there's been lots of rumors around around town regarding that
00:11:00
incident but they didn't find anything they investigated it they didn't find anything well on the timeline of that
00:11:06
killing of the calf might not act actually be accurate either I mean that could have all just been rumor or
00:11:13
hearsay the other thing was The Exorcism referral um remember we said that it was
00:11:19
thought by some other priest that Coons was to be contacted or to be conducting an exorcism soon in the near future
00:11:28
before his uh death occurred um the thing here is they said the same thing we that they investigated that and
00:11:37
nothing came of it now he adding his own opinion though stating that um when when
00:11:43
people talk about an exorcism referral as far as this case is concerned he says that he he would actually think of
00:11:52
someone with a mental illness rather than somebody being possessed by a demon uh this is from his police background
00:12:00
and he says that he believes EV evidence in this investigation has pointed to that this would be a very emotional
00:12:09
murder which brings all sorts of possibility so what he's what I think if we're trying to read between the lines
00:12:16
here of what the sheriff Hamlin is saying a a a probably very emotional murder reading between the lines I feel
00:12:24
like that means that there's some ties there's some more direct ties from the as salent to the victim rather than just
00:12:33
some mentally ill person somebody that is demonically possessed or some Satanist you know or or or a random
00:12:41
Drifter you know because that was one Theory at the beginning yeah I don't know if I buy that again like we we do
00:12:48
have evidence that there was no breaking and entering mhm so was was it a Drifter
00:12:54
that the father was trying to help or was this somebody that he knew uh and he let this person in or did this
00:13:02
person have access so let's get into some more theories right and I think the thing there reading between the lines
00:13:08
though I think the sheriff is implying some kind of relationship between the murderer and the the victim there right
00:13:14
some knowledge of of who was his murderer and he was also directly asked about a church connection perhaps the
00:13:23
controversy going on in Springfield Illinois uh dicese and he says no there was no connection confirmed that
00:13:32
direction either you spoke about that a little bit yesterday yeah but I about some investigations that Coons was
00:13:38
rumored we we can't confirm he was rumored to have been involved in some kind of uh investigations into the
00:13:43
dicese and Springfield Illinois well and also all the dases in in all of Illinois
00:13:50
and so what did he say on the radio show what did the people working on the radio
00:13:54
show no that seems like very controversial Catholic radio show you're going against the church they
00:14:03
never like that MH so is there any you know again we have a priest friend that was on the show talking about these
00:14:12
inner um child pedophile um Rings within the Catholic church so there's your connection uh is it connected to the
00:14:21
murder we don't know but there is a connection there well staying on that note on the thought of another priest
00:14:28
and also the uh their radio show as well in the aftermath of Coon's death um you
00:14:33
know the aftermath got strange and then it got even stranger there would be stories of the exorcism referral that we
00:14:40
talked about the satanic assassin assassination eventually there's in inuendos of sexual impropriety by Coons
00:14:48
and we'll get to that in a little bit uh there would even be allegations that his
00:14:53
murder could somehow be linked to evil in the most Unthinkable of places is the vast Catholic hierarchy that Coons was
00:15:02
tied to as a priest some even blame the Vatican in Rome so could someone within the church really have killed Coons or
00:15:12
ordered him to be killed right like a hit well remember we spoke about Peter Kelly he is the attorney that was the
00:15:20
producer of the radio show that had worked with coons uh for quite some time in Monroe um Wisconsin
00:15:29
now Peter Kelly when asked that question could somebody in the church really have
00:15:33
killed Coons or ordered him to be killed his response was absolutely as unbelievable as that might sound to some
00:15:41
people um he says absolutely and he also adds that there were an awful a lot of people in the church for whom life would
00:15:50
have been a lot easier if father Coons was not around right so again I think he was
00:15:57
doing some investiga for work this is like I said a couple years before the whole Spotlight thing in in Boston mhm
00:16:04
if you haven't seen that um movie I think it it's it's very um educational on on the inner workings of
00:16:12
systems and how they protect themselves mhm um and I think he probably knew some
00:16:17
stuff and again uh the you know like I said there would be a signature now if you're just trying to
00:16:24
shut somebody up you only need one signature a slit throat right and that's normally indication of that this person
00:16:30
was talking right correct I mean that's I'm not saying that other people aren't murdered for other things or people
00:16:39
aren't murdered like that but to me it's like um this this person kind of knew what they're doing their they they cut
00:16:45
an artery you know which doesn't happen in every um slit you know not every time
00:16:52
this somebody slit somebody's throat do they hit an artery so it feels like you know maybe that this person kind of had
00:16:58
some understanding of what they were doing well and one story that has kind of weaved itself into the story of the
00:17:05
murder of Alfred Coons of Father Alfred Coons is this one this is a strange story but this is a man claiming to be
00:17:13
Coon's friend uh this is Abbott Ryan Saint and Scott um now this person felt that Coon's murder was related to Coon's
00:17:24
investigation of sexual abuse scandals inside the Das es uh and this referring to the Springfield Illinois dicese uh
00:17:33
stating that Coons had allegedly been investigating reports of homosexuality and sexual abuse by priest within that
00:17:40
dicese now how did these two find each other well um Reverend Ryan an Scott claims um that and he's currently going
00:17:50
by a different name um Ryan an OSB um those are okay yeah I I think that stands for some kind of title there
00:18:01
Captain but this is a this is a so yeah I'm more familiar with that one um so Scott is what has been labeled by the
00:18:10
Catholic Church as an independent Catholic priest I guess that's what I am I guess that that means he's not in
00:18:17
communion with Rome right that's what I am I'm father Captain so the other thing
00:18:23
the the debatable topic about this guy though is that it's uh whether he was validly ordained or not is the big
00:18:32
debate and that's the argument that the Catholic church is saying well why why would they want to say that he's not
00:18:38
ordained because they want to discredit this man who claims to be a victim of sexual abuse by members of the Catholic
00:18:45
clergy in an incident that occurred in the arch dicese of Milwaukee um he States this was after um after Coon's
00:18:55
death but this man states that in 199 98 uh his Confessor and spiritual director
00:19:02
was Reverend father Alfred Coons from Dane Wisconsin uh of course the brutally murdered in his church and he but he's
00:19:11
stating you know that he was working with this guy he he had worked with coons regarding his personal story and
00:19:19
regarding these allegations that he's brought forward about Springfield Illinois now his own personal um his own
00:19:27
personal track tragedy that took place or the crimes against him would have taken place early in the fall of 1976 so
00:19:35
when when this guy was a much younger man um he he was brutally gang raped in the St John's Cathedral in Milwaukee Wis
00:19:45
Wisconsin according to him he states that he was led there under false pretenses by a fellow priest and was set
00:19:52
up for humiliation and bodily harm right um according to Scott father [ __ ] was
00:19:58
was determined um to to to validate that this guy was actually ordained that he was an actual real ordained priest um
00:20:10
right because it's this like I said before it's the system covering up the system mhm you know so they're going
00:20:15
okay we're going to discredit this guy by saying he he's not ordained so okay again what does that have to do with
00:20:23
anything can you answer me that well I I mean I mean just in a grand scale thing
00:20:30
because there if you if you read the full length of his allegations against these other priests he would have had to
00:20:36
have been a priest for this to for the crime to have gone down the way he said it went down so if so do you see what
00:20:44
I'm saying there right so so the church is saying if he wasn't ordained then therefore the story is bogus right it's
00:20:51
like it's like if I said you know I was once a member of the Oakland Raiders oh sorry my my phone is going off shut off
00:20:58
your phone in the garage I think that's the first time we've had a phone no I I got I got guilty of that once so I think
00:21:04
we're even Steven now but what I'm what I'm getting at is the way that the story
00:21:08
goes down is that it'd be the same as if I said I was a member of the Oakland Raiders and during halftime inside the
00:21:15
locker room the one of the players uh punched me out okay that's not the same thing no it'd be like you saying you're
00:21:23
a part of the Oakland Raiders you're the punter and then when you got in the locker room you're being raped by the
00:21:29
offensive line I don't think that would be the same no what I'm saying is that it it is the exact same because as soon
00:21:36
as I go and I report the crime and then the Oakland Raiders go um different crime though he's never been well duh
00:21:44
but when they say he's never been a member of this football team then immediately my allegations my whole
00:21:49
story falls apart immediately you know not necessarily is what I'm saying but how
00:21:57
if I'm stating that the that the assault took place at halftime while I was employed by the Oakland Raiders and I
00:22:04
was there in the locker room because I was a player on that team and I was assaulted and then they go well that's
00:22:12
impossible he's never been a member of this football team he would have never been in the locker room we don't know
00:22:16
what he's talking about my argument is that it would be yes lie lie but if you can prove one of those things you know
00:22:23
it'd be like again oh well I'm uh you know I work for the garage blah blah blah I got beat up oh well you actually
00:22:29
don't work for this garage but I have proof that I was beat up well just because you know I wasn't truthful about
00:22:37
about one thing doesn't mean that just because I was just because I lied about one thing doesn't mean the next thing is
00:22:43
automatically a lie is what I'm saying possibly but what I'm saying is if you read the full length of this um of these
00:22:51
accusations he would have had to have been a priest he would have had to been working in that capacity for right this
00:22:58
for this to be truthful at all right but then the argument too is that father Coons was trying to prove right he was
00:23:06
trying to validate this guy being as an ordained priest again another motive for
00:23:11
the system to cover up the system um this St an person himself he is a controversial character um and
00:23:19
that's not just by the um opinion of the church um in 19 he has a felony conviction uh from
00:23:28
1994 for misconduct in public office um apparently he had a check from the city for $30 and he magically made it turn
00:23:40
into a check for $300 uh and he got caught for this the old add a zero trick um add that to the list of things
00:23:49
not to do that we were going over yesterday Captain um but this this person and I again similar situ ation to
00:23:58
you know Malaki Martin that we discussed yesterday when it comes to this guy he has these allegations they are
00:24:05
interesting are they true I don't know there's I don't know if that there's enough evidence or enough proof to back
00:24:12
up some of his statements now it has been uh reported that we talked about roughly you know kind of touched on that
00:24:20
Springfield Illinois connection um but the the bishop eventually did resign from um office there so I don't know if
00:24:30
that you can make your own opinion on that if it that means if there is any sign of guilt or not well and that's one
00:24:37
of the one of the major things that the spotlight team uncovered in Boston was whether it was people resigning or them
00:24:44
moving around priest to cover their tracks so cover their tracks I mean basically just hide criminals um Captain
00:24:53
we got to talk about this thing though here uh because about two years after the murder of father Coons there's an
00:24:59
article that came out this is from the um Madison uh Associated Press um stating the the title is slain priest
00:25:09
had relationships with women uh oh yes he did and I'll give you the gist of it rather than read through the whole thing
00:25:16
read it slow like one of those Penthouse forums um so basically what they're stating here is that the in
00:25:27
investigators believe that uh father Coons had carried on intimate relationships with women uh
00:25:36
involved uh is there any other kind for about 20 years continuing just prior to his death now investigators came out
00:25:45
with this information because they were asking the public for leads now that they had this new possible motive right
00:25:53
so the motive would be he was having a sexual relationship with a AER married woman and then the husband found out and
00:26:00
then decided to kill father Coons yeah became in a jealous rage stormed into the church and which is definitely a
00:26:08
crime of passion so I could see you know this being a possible motive mhm this this seems likely you know um would seem
00:26:16
more likely if he wasn't as old as he was correct and and that's one thing that a lot of the parishioners were
00:26:23
pointing out um that they were stating you know they felt I think the church um and I mean his specific church people
00:26:31
that had relationships as as far as a priest and perisher relationship with Father Coons they got very upset about
00:26:39
this um coming out and they and they actually got very upset with their own sheriff and their own Sheriff's
00:26:44
Department because they almost felt like these allegations were not warranted uh and that they were really
00:26:51
just kind of dragging the good father's name through the mud after death well the statistics are like only
00:26:59
47% of priests are are celebrate anyways so I mean that's pretty you know for people that take a oath you know right
00:27:09
an oath of Chastity that you're stating that the the numbers are on the side of the investigator's allegations yeah but
00:27:17
uh but I mean it's it's a dumb rule anyways I mean that that wasn't put into place by the church for for a very long
00:27:24
time and it was only put into place it had nothing to do with being more holy or anything like that it was more just
00:27:32
so the priests in the community had a lot of power and so if they had kids then they could transfer that power over
00:27:39
so now you're becoming more of a kingdom than you are a church so the Catholic Church put that into law and therefore
00:27:47
they couldn't pass down the their power to their family MH well this would lead the investigators to um investigating
00:27:56
and interviewing um a lot of the female parishioners um and we have I have an account of how some of the questioning
00:28:04
went down uh for one woman but we will get right to that after this quick beer [Music]
00:28:22
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Angie [Music] that all right we are back cheers mates cheers my friend um we were talking about some of
00:30:25
the parishioners getting questioned female parishioners uh regarding if father Coons had intimate relationships
00:30:32
with them well one woman this is Mora Smith she was a St Michael parishioner who was identified as one of the women
00:30:40
that police thought Coons might have been having an intimate relationship with now Smith describes the police um
00:30:48
attention as Relentless uh intimidating and unbearable her uh butcher knives were confiscated from her
00:30:58
yeah they well they searched her home uh confiscated butcher knives a a baseball
00:31:03
bat tools snapshots of coons and other personal items of hers uh there was Interview upon tough interview she says
00:31:13
um again now if they're pulling stuff like the baseball bat and stuff now can we assume that maybe he was hit with
00:31:20
some object maybe he was attacked by more than one weapon right and again wouldn't that be something that you
00:31:27
I don't know I think I have a real issue with them keeping too much information close to the vest uh they the
00:31:34
authorities also took blood and hair samples um they would say that uh Mara you know they would ask Mara questions
00:31:42
Mora I'm sorry did did he touch you did he grab you uh she's like just above the
00:31:47
belly button well they said they told her that they were asking these same questions
00:31:53
and doing similar searches with all of the women of the the parish well yeah you expect them to be asking these
00:32:00
questions of these women if if this is a possible motive mhm well the thing here
00:32:05
is Smith says of her experience you know regarding father Coons was that their relationship was was innocent she says
00:32:13
father Coons was a gentleman she says regarding her what she would call um intimidating questioning that she
00:32:21
received from the police as well as them searching her home she states that she has suffered more than her fair share of
00:32:29
what what was entailed in this investigation um she eventually moved out of the area she moved to Milwaukee
00:32:36
um Milwaukee because she was upset about the ordeal citing police harassment um and accusing the Sheriff's Office of
00:32:45
dragging CO's name through the mud so that's one ladies that's one of the ladies of the parish her experience as
00:32:53
far as the allegations about father Coon's with women of the church and if there
00:33:00
were potentially a jealous husband or boyfriend involved in the murder right so basically what you know they come up
00:33:07
with this Theory and they this is TR me drives me insane let's come up with the theory and uh then we try to prove it
00:33:15
how about you try to prove it before you start you know again we'll hold all this
00:33:19
stuff to the vest really closely but uh you know we're going to start spreading rumors that this this father was having
00:33:25
affairs with uh with ladies from his church well and a lot of times investigators or police will use the
00:33:31
word intimate to to mean just a close relationship to describe a close relationship well I think that's um
00:33:40
irresponsible well one thing that they did in this investigation and when they would speak publicly about this
00:33:47
investigation was at some point they dropped that word as you know saying intimate relationship with the priest uh
00:33:56
because at some point they started saying you know their belief is that this person had an intimate relationship
00:34:01
with the priest and had a good working knowledge of the church itself or the building uh that he was found murdered
00:34:08
in right now the thing here is uh like I said they dropped that that intimate title and just changed it to a
00:34:15
relationship or close relationship with the father at some point because they you know they're getting backlash from
00:34:20
the uh from the from the parish well of course again investigate it then present
00:34:25
the theory don't present the Theory then investigate it I again I just think that's irresponsible so that that theory
00:34:33
is kind of squashed and what else we have I know we had some profiles that they had yes so the police I do think
00:34:40
that the investigators here did a a pretty thorough job on this investigation seems like they've worked
00:34:45
very hard and tried everything they could now one thing they did work with FBI profilers um the forensic behavior
00:34:53
science experts uh who discern probable beh Behavior at crime scenes based on physical evidence and consultation with
00:35:01
investigators uh police consider these profiles to just be guiding tools we all know that um here are the conclusions of
00:35:08
the FBI profiles regarding the father Coon's case uh this is their thoughts one the offender showed obvious rage
00:35:17
publicly and like and the likely motive was related to jealousy Revenge betrayal
00:35:23
or something else very personal so a personal uh Vendetta against the the priest uh they also state that number
00:35:32
two the the weapon might have a connection to the Killer's employment or Hobby and the weapon is one that the
00:35:39
killer feels comfortable using three the impetus of the murder could have been an incident that
00:35:46
occurred between the Killer and father Coons within 72 hours of the crime this could have been the result of a long or
00:35:54
shortterm conflict and possibly of a that other people would consider insignificant right I just laugh because
00:36:04
well it could have been a short term or could have been long term these profiles
00:36:08
can be vague at times um the killer would have tried to ensue ensure an alibi to account for his absence during
00:36:17
the time of the homicide the excuse might be weak but the killer will not waver from it okay the next one is the
00:36:24
day after the murder the offender might have missed work claiming illness or injury we've heard about this in in many
00:36:31
other cases that we've covered uh if the killer did go to work it would have been
00:36:36
difficult for him to concentrate while worrying how the police might be able to find a link between him and the murder
00:36:44
mhm the Killer's preoccupation with the crime may have caused noticeable behavioral changes such as with
00:36:53
withdrawing from friends and family changes in eating and sleeping habits and or increased you use of drugs and
00:37:02
alcohol mhm I mean we see this a lot at times to somebody you know commits a crime and then really follow follows it
00:37:10
as as almost a Obsession MH and they sometimes can be cut that way as as a result yeah and regarding the drugs and
00:37:19
alcohol you know sometimes they they believe that's a way of the person dealing with the guilt or dealing with
00:37:25
the stress of being worried that they're going to get tied to the crime um they also state
00:37:31
that it is possible that the Killer is vocal in proposing theories about the crime that draw away attention such as
00:37:39
an interpreted burglary uh or sorry interrupted burglary or a transient Theory or a conspiracy theory regarding
00:37:47
the death of coons which a lot of people didn't present weird theories maybe father
00:37:53
Martin did but um so other than that well I think I think there were a few people working
00:38:01
with in some capacity with the church that were voicing some what we would say quote unquote weird theories um but yeah
00:38:08
not many theories seem to be coming from the general public um their other thought would be that people close to
00:38:15
the killer may be a be aware of a past dispute with the father um they might suspect the Killer's involvement in the
00:38:22
crime but they also might sympathize with the Killer situation that seems like a strange one to throw in there I
00:38:30
wish I would have xed that one out of their profile cuz that one just sounds weird um next the Killer is a white male
00:38:37
here's where we get to some more specifics it's always a white male the white guy did it um the Killer is a
00:38:43
white male probably in his late 20s or older they estimate the age uh because of the killer um lack of panic after the
00:38:53
murder that this must be somebody that's a little older that's a little little uh
00:38:57
more patient that this wasn't a teenager or a very young man um the murderer was
00:39:03
known to Father Coons um but also had a physical size that posed no threat to the to the father to the father Coons
00:39:13
right so not a large man well this makes you wonder because they're they they're
00:39:18
Gathering some of this evidence as physical evidence and with cons Consulting with the active investigators
00:39:24
on this crime when say that he has no physical size that posed a threat to Father
00:39:31
Coons that makes you believe that he that father Coons very likely opened the door and let this person into the
00:39:38
building or and I think we've seen evidence of that yeah um Coon's murder was probably uh employed full-time as
00:39:46
nothing of value was taken from the scene remember we said early in the investigation they would not rule out
00:39:51
robbery it sounds like it has been ruled out which I think you know the The Drifter mhm you know doesn't make a
00:40:01
lot of sense to me The Drifter probably would have taken something would have would have robbed the place in some form
00:40:06
yeah but again it's a big church too so I mean it could be something again and we also don't have father Coons is not
00:40:13
writing down an inventory of everything that's true so there could be there could be some uh let's you know like
00:40:19
some of those like wine cups that they have you know or maybe they're just goldplated but you'd think maybe one of
00:40:24
those would be gone but again how many did they have there could have been something taken and they just didn't
00:40:30
know it mhm I agree with that um so I went from Drifter Theory doesn't make any sense though still still involved
00:40:38
it's still on the plate well way to scratch it off the paper oh wait uh they also state that the killer
00:40:45
had at least a high school education I love how they figure these things out a full-time employed uh at least a high
00:40:51
school education and no extensive criminal record the Killer's intelligence is aver
00:40:57
but he is he is without the street smarts of a sophisticated criminal so almost stating you know we see no
00:41:05
extensive criminal record and without the sophisticated uh Street smarts of a sophisticated criminal so this might be
00:41:14
this F person's first um Rodeo so to speak um and at the very maybe even more hadn't committed any crimes at all um
00:41:24
the next one um is the killer did not expect the amount of blood gushing from the fatal wound um complicating the
00:41:32
weapon his clothing and this this would complicate the disposal of his clothing in the weapon this creating a problem
00:41:41
for the killer also unexpected was how Fierce Coons struggled no matter how brief the altercation was the killer was
00:41:50
punched several times and may have been scratched or cut by the murder weapon itself these injuries would have been
00:41:58
visible to those close to the murderer mhm well I like those FBI profiles captain and and I like when they release
00:42:06
them for um I could read those all day long and you're right though there's there are I don't want to listen to them
00:42:11
all day there are things in there that you can Snicker at that you can laugh at a little bit there there are some vague
00:42:17
vagueness to them um but I think that um that would lead us to our next topic which would be
00:42:26
you know we discussed theories but let's talk about some more uh let's talk about
00:42:32
suspects and let's talk about them as specific suspects um so several sources um confirmed at one time in this
00:42:41
investigation that the investigation was targeting the teacher who had found Coon's body right um after this was this
00:42:50
is different though because this is after the this teacher moved in with Coon's friend who did he move in with he
00:42:59
moved in with Reverend fiori uh now remember we talked about this guy he's longtime friends with Father Coons and
00:43:07
this quote unquote suspect moves in with fiori lives with them for about 6 months
00:43:13
this is almost immediately after the murder um the teacher eventually moved out of the state um and was recently
00:43:20
engaged to be married um I'm guessing I don't have anything to back this up but I'm guessing that possibly that
00:43:28
relationship with the woman may have taken him out of the state um after finding the body though this teacher
00:43:35
called 911 on the morning of March 4th 1998 the teacher did pass this is according to police uh P police
00:43:45
questioning um and what they did was pass police questioning they I was waiting for you to say a polygraph but
00:43:52
no this is according to the police um now one thing that they did at the time um they took this person's clothing
00:44:00
because remember after finding the body this teacher's clothing was covered in blood so they took his clothing and they
00:44:08
left they basically left the teacher wrapped up in a blanket um what had happened was when the when father Coons
00:44:15
was found murdered at the church you know there was supposed to be school that day there was going to be other
00:44:21
teachers there was going to be students there this was going to be a regular day
00:44:25
and in D County right um but what ended up happening was they discover the murder
00:44:31
and so they sent all of the parishioners all the school children all the people arriving to the school that morning they
00:44:38
sent them across the street to the Village Hall um now there this teacher this teacher that is more shocked than
00:44:45
the rest of the parishioners because he in fact found the body he's had his bloody bloody clothing confiscated from
00:44:53
him taken from him he's now wrapped in a towel sitting amongst all of these other
00:44:58
people who were in shock that their their priest was killed well a couple things with this I mean the murder
00:45:03
weapon would have to be close mhm and they should be able to do DNA testing to see if this teacher had any blood uh
00:45:11
like a mixture of blood between his and fathers MH but you know I'm assuming they did that that testing well the
00:45:19
police they the the thing the problem they had with him as a suspect was they in might just be their intuition that's
00:45:29
that's taking him away this might just be their own you know experiences as a police officer or detective but they're
00:45:35
stating that they would find it highly highly improbable that this guy would have killed the priest sometime at night
00:45:44
so this would probably have taken place at 11:30 12:30 that night and then been the first one to return to the crime
00:45:51
scene to find the victim um the thing Captain though they or that he would stay in the church that whole time
00:46:00
correct and so we also have uh the teacher was again interviewed by investigators at least once that I could
00:46:07
find this would have been in late March uh with a lawyer present so question the
00:46:13
day of the finding and then question again at a later date in March now sometimes when you're questioning
00:46:19
somebody it's not because it's not to insinuate any guilt maybe they're not guilty of anything you're just going
00:46:24
over what they saw anything they recollect uh that had taken place maybe there was something that you missed uh
00:46:30
the first time um fiori and others uh involved that knew this man and knew father Coons very well um have told said
00:46:41
publically that they cannot imagine any connection um from this teacher to the actual murder um and then everybody kind
00:46:49
of coming to the defense of this teacher stating that the teacher was not did not
00:46:54
appear to have been in injured in any way on March 4th um and remember we said according to the FBI profile as well as
00:47:02
the investigators that Coons put up a pretty good fight uh even if it was a short fight uh before his throat was
00:47:08
slashed yeah the problem with that though problem with that evidence is again we don't know what what they're
00:47:15
talking about so like I said before maybe there's bruises on his knuckles and stuff like that and there's multiple
00:47:21
ways I mean maybe you get a bruise from your knuckle because you did punch somebody M or maybe you get bruise from
00:47:26
your knuckle because in this struggle your hand smacks against the wall so I think sometimes that you know there is
00:47:33
just quote unquote scientific evidence of maybe that this guy put up a fight and that somebody should be injured but
00:47:39
that does you know we got to air that there's always that slim possibility that what you're seeing what you think
00:47:46
you're seeing scientifically is not what you're seeing right right um you know so
00:47:51
didn't see didn't have any injuries that were visible to the public on that day that the body was found um and also
00:47:58
stating that the teacher did not show any visible signs of anger toward father Coons at any time uh before or after the
00:48:07
murder and this to me seems like kind of a weak suspect uh obviously you'd want to question this individual because he
00:48:14
found the father that he actually worked with the father but this seems like a weak suspect to me but there was a
00:48:20
stronger suspect yes there was a stronger suspect and just before we get to this this other suspect staying on
00:48:28
your same thought there uh investigating the person that found him also investigating the person that last was
00:48:34
known to see father [ __ ] so we did have father fiori uh who did endure a heavy
00:48:40
police scrutiny at one time um and one article that I found and I couldn't confirm this with with other articles
00:48:47
but it state that he had been cleared in the as having any involvement in the murder of the priest now so here here's
00:48:55
the next guy and and this guy might be a little bit better of a suspect than both
00:48:59
of the last two people we discussed so this comes from a gentleman by the name of Matt Abbott uh he's somebody that's
00:49:06
covered this case extensively uh he's a writer a journalist that has covered this case extensively over the years uh
00:49:13
and one article that he wrote uh was titled did a hanged rapist kill a Wisconsin priest uh and in the article
00:49:22
he says that he had received an email from a person named John Kavanaugh now this John Kavanagh is a retired danne
00:49:29
County deputy and John was stating that he knew the person well he knew of a person with a violent a very violent
00:49:37
background who was in the area on the day of Father Coon's murder uh this person uh that he's going to say
00:49:46
allegedly killed father Coons uh is now deceased yeah he's going to implicate him in well where did John Kavanagh get
00:49:53
his information he says that the suspect his father had told John that the suspect had contact with Father Coons
00:50:01
and that he had asked father Coons for money he was refused and in this person's words he said he had to rough
00:50:08
him up so he had to rough up the priest after he's denied money now this perpetrator this suspect is John
00:50:15
Kavanaugh's nephew so it would be John's brother the father of this suspect that
00:50:21
gave him this information now who is his nephew his nephew had a History of Violence toward women uh he was
00:50:28
incarcerated pending trial on charges of assault and kidnapping and he committed
00:50:35
suicide while he was waiting for that trial he had previously served time in state prison for assaulting another
00:50:43
woman well right okay so think about this too I mean think about how many cases that we've had I think uh Aurora
00:50:52
shooting Aurora theater shooting yeah um Sandy Hook I think um couple other ones
00:50:59
where where the parents hear about a crime and they get a gut feeling mhm that it was their their son or their
00:51:09
daughter or whoever right right and so we have this case where this thing happens in a small town but uh yeah
00:51:16
maybe the father you know gets more information but he had a gut feeling from the beginning well the strange
00:51:23
thing about this person saying that he had to you know he was refused money and then he had to rough up the priest well
00:51:29
he used this same phrase uh when he described a crime he had committed like eight or 10 years before the murder of
00:51:36
father Coons he had went to his own grandfather for money and asked him for money and was refused and he told he
00:51:44
told his father about this and said I had to rough up Grand my grandfather CU he refuse me money he roughed the
00:51:51
grandfather up so badly that the guy had to go to the hospital and he spent the rest of his days in a wheelchair so it
00:51:57
was it was damn near murder you know what I mean uh to use the words had to rough him up so this man John Kavanagh
00:52:04
though is saying that he had once he had this information from his brother about
00:52:10
his nephew's confession quote unquote confession um he notified the Sheriff's Office uh he said that they did do a
00:52:18
little bit of followup on this uh they contacted the father they spoke with him um but they did get back in contact with
00:52:26
this John Kavanaugh and they told him you know what what your nephew told to your brother uh cannot be construed as a
00:52:34
confession um that it's this is not considered a confession on top of this though we're looking at a suspect that's
00:52:40
already dead maybe that has something to do with how much effort that they're going to put into this thing um he's
00:52:46
tried to get them time and time again to to consider this as as a strong theory in this case he says but for what it's
00:52:53
worth He is a retired Dane County Deputy um so he he would have worked with some
00:52:59
of these investigators and he said that there are personality clashes uh with many who are in power at the sheriff's
00:53:07
office today which could very well be one reason for their perceived failure to act upon his claims he says that
00:53:15
they're in no hurry to admit that perhaps they should have followed up on this information years ago now John
00:53:21
Kavanaugh's nephew is Joseph Kavanagh and as we said he did have a history of violence and possibly mental illness
00:53:29
yeah so a couple weird things here cuz one you'd think that this Police Department would and we've seen this
00:53:35
time and time again with other police departments where even if this is not the right guy this guy is dead so
00:53:41
therefore he can't defend himself I mean we're not going to bring charges with there's not going to be charges to
00:53:46
anybody in this uh case but this case will at least be closed and this is the most you know you dare say popular case
00:53:55
most covered case in their small little County so you'd think we just got to get
00:54:00
this closed um so I I kind of you know want to say hey I applaud them for not just you know going here's the guy he
00:54:08
did it we're never going to charge him so let's move on right um but it seems like they didn't do their due diligence
00:54:15
on this and I the reason why I think that the suspect being dead is is a hindrance for them is something that
00:54:22
they don't wish to pursue I wonder if the investigators know that a confession is really the ultimate Way of solving
00:54:30
you know that this is might be the only way left of solving this crime or this case well because so much time has
00:54:36
passed and there might not be if the if the attacker didn't cut himself and there there might not be any DNA
00:54:44
evidence they did test it was about four or five years into the investigation they said that they had a small amount
00:54:50
of DNA that they wanted to test and they were going to test in this investigation
00:54:55
however they tested it and when they come back and they don't really want to talk about the results or their you know
00:55:01
and they just say Well it kind of went nowhere well that means that it means that it's either not DNA
00:55:07
that they thought that they had it means it's pooo right right it's it's not going to lead to anybody's arrest now
00:55:15
well I would just on this Theory my gut feeling is look I mean no parent that's the you know one
00:55:22
of the worst you know other than your child pass away the the second worst thing would be
00:55:29
right your child committing some some heinous crime like this so the fact that the father is coming forward and saying
00:55:36
look I I believe my son was responsible for this murder that holds a lot of weight with me and thank you for saying
00:55:42
that because that reminded me the the the vibe I got what I read was that the the father not only did the the uncle
00:55:51
suspect this guy but the father backed it up as well as the um the man's mother firmly believed that he was involved in
00:55:58
the the murder of father Coons um now more about this Matt Abbott who has covered this case extensively and this
00:56:06
is a more recent article that he has written regarding the death of Father Coons um he says and it's it's a very
00:56:15
long article and the juicy stuff is at the end so I'll read uh I'll read the end of that article and it says now for
00:56:23
that interesting bit ofation pertaining to the murder investigation he states that once again he was contacted by
00:56:30
somebody this is a private investigator had informed him that the prime suspect was a man who was known to Father Coons
00:56:39
uh apparently this man was having more than a platonic relationship with another man who was also known to Father
00:56:45
Coons the second man reportedly had some sexually suggestive photos of the suspect in his bedroom according to to
00:56:55
the investigator the simplest explanation is usually the best one the investigator told Matt Abbott and
00:57:03
stating that maybe father Coons caught the two together or saw a photo that was compromising maybe the man had confessed
00:57:10
to Father Coons about their homosexual relationship uh probably no one will ever know which one of those is is is
00:57:19
true but he says you know all of the circumstances you know even with the possible motive pointing primarily at
00:57:28
the suspect um unfortunately this primarily does not translate to anything beyond Reasonable Doubt um basically he
00:57:37
he's stating that this this guy went out and killed father Coons because he was aware of this relationship that he was
00:57:44
having with another man and this private investigator does he believes that the police did their job that they did their
00:57:52
due diligence he thinks what has really really put this investigation on its side was that the the man he was having
00:58:01
a relationship with was not very forthcoming with information and may have even lied to the police early on in
00:58:08
this investigation all right so that's none of what you just said is that clear so
00:58:15
the guy that murdered father Coons was actually having a affair with another man I don't know if he was having an
00:58:23
affair but he was having according to this article in this investig having a relationship he was having a homosexual
00:58:29
relationship so since father Coons knew about this homosexual relationship he had to murder him that doesn't seem like
00:58:37
that that's according to this investigator and the article written by Matt Abbott right yeah I don't like this
00:58:44
theory that much at all now police did state that there was an anonymous letter that was sent to the police um years ago
00:58:54
in this in investigation that did name a suspect for them uh later police were able to identify who this Anonymous
00:59:03
person is now they've not outwardly said who the anonymous person was they've also not stated who the uh was
00:59:11
implicated in the letter that was sent to them all right so where did this investigation lead them well the thing
00:59:18
here is I wonder if that's where this in this private investigator came up with this whole theory about the two men
00:59:25
having a relationship that one of them would have moved out of town one of them remained in town and maybe the the the
00:59:32
one that remained in town knew what was going on lied to the police early in the
00:59:36
investigation felt bad felt guilty knows who killed the father killed the priest
00:59:41
and sent this Anonymous letter that's my that's a suspicion that's a bit of a leap I understand that Captain it's a
00:59:47
little bit of a leap um but by 2009 investigators with the danne county sheriff's department um were willing to
00:59:55
state that they did have a longtime suspect they would not name who this uh suspect was and said that U has never
01:00:02
been named um they've not arrested this person because they have lack of sufficient sufficient evidence to do so
01:00:11
um Steve Gilmore he was the lieutenant of detectives with the Department said that the suspect left town soon after
01:00:19
father Coon's murder um he said that they know where this person is they know that that they know what he's up to
01:00:28
apparently they're they're watching him um or have watched kept an eye on him they state that if indeed he had
01:00:35
committed this murder then he stayed pretty clean you know he's not gone out there wherever he's located and
01:00:42
committed other crimes and they also state that they certainly don't think that there's any threat to the public
01:00:48
out there uh yeah I laughed about that as well oh my god wow hey dummies wake up killed a
01:00:58
priest right right this suspect that you believe is a suspect if he's actually somewhat of a suspect he killed a priest
01:01:07
because he was having having a relationship with another man well that's if those two are actually tied
01:01:13
together that was me me making that leap but I know what you're getting at here Captain if somebody's capable of killing
01:01:18
a priest once I think they slit in their throat I think they always remain a threat to the public
01:01:25
but as much as as much as we want to get upset about that statement that Gilmore
01:01:31
made to the the newspaper the thing here is though it doesn't matter because what
01:01:35
can they do if they don't have evidence they can't arrest the guy and and ensure
01:01:40
the public that he's not going to harm anybody else they're kind of left with their hands tied so what Gilmore
01:01:46
basically is stating that as of you know this was in 2009 article however he States in this article that as of 2008
01:01:56
that suspect was alive um he was under surveillance by somebody yeah I'm sure he is and he was no longer living in the
01:02:06
Dayne County uh jurisdiction all right well that's um you know it does leave a little sour taste in your mouth I'm
01:02:14
drinking beer there's not there's no there's no sour taste in this there I got a little taste of honey didn't he
01:02:21
hear the man talk about this delicious beer so does any of that lead you to to any direction in this case where where
01:02:29
you feel that you have a better idea or better sense of who committed this crime
01:02:35
no cuz originally looking into this my gut feeling and and probably because I just watched Spotlight my my my original
01:02:43
gut feeling was you know father Martin talking about uh possibly some kind of innerworkings of the church and trying
01:02:49
to cover you know system covering up system that's kind of where my gut feeling was going but like you said you
01:02:55
read into this when you have um a child that you believe uh had the capability of doing this roughed up his grandfather
01:03:04
had all these vicious attacks uh kidnappings on women um uses the same verbiage when he talks about roughing he
01:03:13
had to rough up the father right uh father Coons that is and and so now you got an uncle a father and a mother all
01:03:21
stating that this person they believe should be the number one suspect there might not be evidence to prove that
01:03:28
right so that you know kind of ties law enforcement's hands so but you know then they toss in
01:03:36
this other person and I don't want okay there remarks on he you know he's not a threat to society well that that is just
01:03:43
[ __ ] you know uh and um they should be reprehended somehow for just that dumbass
01:03:51
comment but but how would you rep Pro I thought about this quite a bit just spank them in front of people just spank
01:03:58
them I don't think they can do that well it depends on that but here but the the
01:04:02
thing is is then but again if there's not enough evidence to link you know the the one suspect what was his name again
01:04:12
that was the Joseph Joseph Kavanaugh the GU that committed suicide yeah if there's not enough evidence to link him
01:04:22
or maybe they did look into that and they just don't think he's the guy because they have enough information on
01:04:28
this other suspect uh that that's the only thing there that make you know kind of makes me question again mom father
01:04:37
Uncle verbage his attacks before the suicide all those things that you know that's your number one suspect but I
01:04:46
don't want to discredit law enforcement if they go we got this other guy and we'd like to get him right yeah I I'm
01:04:54
with you Captain I think I the one thing I think I rule out here is the Satanist
01:04:59
um aspect never rule that out I think that I think that one seems less likely the more you get into this situation and
01:05:07
you see that it is very likely that um that father Coons had some type of personal relationship with the person
01:05:15
that committed this crime whether it be just somebody that attended his church I
01:05:20
think it was a familiar face that knocked on the door that night and he opened up the door to the to his killer
01:05:27
um and I think that's how the yeah but you can't roll out you know somebody part of the clergy so
01:05:35
um is all I'm saying um but I again I think it's somebody somebody that the father recognized that night and I think
01:05:43
he let them into the building now there was a priest that recently wrote um the killer of Father Coons still walks Among
01:05:51
Us uh no one can be certain if this VI vicious killer has or will strike again until the murderer of Father Coons is
01:05:59
arrested and convicted an individual possessed by evil walks Among Us assured that at at least once he has
01:06:07
successfully murdered a man of God and gone unpunished until this crime is solved those who hate God and his people
01:06:15
know that it is possible to kill and get away with murder um anybody having any information regarding the murder of
01:06:23
father Coons uh should call the danne county sheriff's office at 60828 4 6871 and I really hope they do get more
01:06:34
information and and have the closure of this case cuz one of the things that I applaud um Alfred father Alfred [ __ ] for
01:06:43
doing was to look at his own MH and to see that there was a problem within um the inner workings of of the church
01:06:53
right and something that he fully believed in I mean he committed his life to the church he committed his life to a
01:06:59
community so whether or not you're religious or not um anybody that I think commits themselves to a community and
01:07:06
lifting up people and doing good instead of harm I applaud those people but I also applaud the fact that he saw that
01:07:13
there are um evil demons within the church praying on kids and that he was doing some research and at least um
01:07:22
diving into it and not in a blind eye as so many have so I applaud I applaud him
01:07:28
for that yep uh recommended reading for this week Captain we are recommending the operator firing the shots that
01:07:34
killed Osama Bin Laden in my years as a Seal Team Warrior your Seal Team No that's somebody else's words this is by
01:07:42
one of the many many Heroes that have served this fine country this is Robert O'Neal Robert was on the Seal Team Six
01:07:49
obviously he also served in Iraq and Afghanistan this guy uh he served in our military's tier one
01:07:57
units he did 400 missions in his military career he was involved in the rescue attempt of the Lone Survivor also
01:08:06
uh the rescue of Captain Phillips and of course the bin Laden thing that's a brother of mine and in his book the
01:08:13
operator he reveals firsthand details of the most celebrated terrorist Tak down in history so please check out the
01:08:20
operator by Robert O'Neal and you can do that by going our website true Crim garage.com and click on the recommended
01:08:27
page thank you guys for listening thanks for telling a friend thanks for spreading the word We Appreciate You yep
01:08:35
we will see you back here in the garage next week and until then be good be kind
01:08:39
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