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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for details [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage Wherever
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You Are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
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every week riding shotgun ladies and gentlemen here is the cap Regulators Mound up it's good to be seen and good
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to see you thanks for listening thanks for T [Music] friend this week we are featuring garage
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beer that's right garage beer how the captain and I are not major shareholders in this company is beyond me but we are
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:22
[Music] crime you know being a killer is this far this it's a step about this far from
00:03:37
aggravated Robert you know what I mean killing somebody yeah but I heard this wasn't
00:03:44
just killing somebody you know what I'm saying I heard this wasn't just running up to him
00:03:49
shooting him and leaveing you know what I'm saying no so this is somebody this is a killer this is a killer you know
00:03:54
what I'm saying this is a bad [ __ ] person you know whoever did this is is do you think whoever did this went there
00:03:59
with the intent to kill somebody or do you think they were there looking for something and something went bad it went
00:04:04
too far it depends what story is true it depends if if the story that I heard true what did you hear I heard that they
00:04:10
um what I hear all the details about that I've heard they got shot in the back of the head I heard they got
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strangled I heard they got Lisa's fingernails got ripped off I heard um yeah I heard all Lisa's fingernails were
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ripped off they tortured her I heard her head was almost severed off I heard they
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got one shot in the back I heard a whole bunch of different stories you know I mean if they really pulled
00:04:32
her fings off and almost severed her head off they were coming there to kill him you know what I'm saying they
00:04:36
weren't coming there all right what if I tell you that her fingernails weren't torn off and her heads wasn't head
00:04:40
wasn't severed [ __ ] so that's [ __ ] well I'm not saying anything I'm saying what and
00:04:49
why they did they get shot or did they get suffocated you know what I'm saying well the what the the coroner already
00:04:55
reported how they died in the paper died of a asphixiation that's that's yeah I heard yeah right yeah [ __ ] so did you
00:05:03
hear anything about anybody getting shot well when it first happened I heard they
00:05:06
got execution style in the back of the head you know what I'm saying that's what that's the first story I
00:05:13
[Music] heard autopsies are performed on both of our victims young adults 21-year-old
00:05:31
Johnny Clark 20-year-old Lisa strob the autopsies Captain were conducted by a doctor Pandy he's a deputy coroner and
00:05:40
forensic pathologist with the Lucas County coroner's office the doctor notes their injuries
00:05:47
and describes the manner in which the two had been bound he declares the cause of death for both victims to be exfix
00:05:55
due to strangulation and Suffocation but he is not able to confirm a specific time of death nor the order in which
00:06:02
they died evidence is also collected from items of clothing that is worn by our two victims and of note Captain we
00:06:12
have DNA that is found on Johnny's sweatpants Pandy states that Lisa's toxicology report showed that she had
00:06:21
therapeutic levels of vicadin and peret in her system while Johnny's toxicology report showed he had minute levels of
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perco in his system and the presence of marijuana in his urine there are sources
00:06:37
out there several that report that both were known to have been casual and recreational drug users this throws a
00:06:45
whole another wrench into our set of circumstances here and trying to determine who is responsible for killing
00:06:54
these two young individuals yeah because that could become a motive and just to be clear to the listeners the the clip
00:07:02
that you guys heard in the trailer today was a a clip from an interrogation of Anthony
00:07:10
Watson that's correct and he is basically telling law enforcement about a lot of the rumors that he heard and
00:07:20
obviously in a very small town that is connected to a larger City there's going to be a lot of rumors when it comes to
00:07:30
a double homicide yeah and he's for my understanding Captain he's a little older than Johnny and may have been an
00:07:38
associate of Johnny's he's a bit of a thug or at least has a very even violent at times police
00:07:47
background he does seem we've watched the entirety of that interview and he does seem rather forthcoming with the
00:07:55
detective now I don't want to go as far to say that he is a sus suspect or or not a suspect in my opinion what I do
00:08:02
know is he was a suspect in the opinions of the police detectives well again when
00:08:09
you have a autopsy that shows that these individuals were drug users that creates
00:08:15
a whole another level of possible motives you know is because people that do use drugs sometimes purchase large
00:08:25
amounts of drugs and so then when you have a situation where you have evidence or possible evidence that
00:08:33
somebody goes into this house and kills these two individuals but is clearly looking for something clearly and that's
00:08:41
that becomes another issue for the investigation because as we touched on yesterday and talked about there was
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that rumor that was going around within some of the Social Circles that Johnny had either bragged that there was a a
00:08:58
safe in the stob family home that may have contained large amounts of cash right and then the other version of that
00:09:06
same rumor is that the stobs had a lot of money okay so look if we're going to bring drugs into this I want to be clear
00:09:15
about something here and this you you can test this Theory all day and night if you want come at me if you will but
00:09:22
here's the deal when drug addicts are involved they a lot of them some of them the violent ones
00:09:29
will do anything and go by any means necessary to get those drugs drugs take top priority for some
00:09:38
of these individuals over money number one and right number one and number two priority for that type of
00:09:48
look we're not talking about everybody we're not talking about all drug addicts we're talking about a very specific
00:09:54
small sample size of these individuals violent individuals most of them with police backgrounds with a record with a
00:10:01
History of Violence those individuals what we're talking about here is priority number one and just like the
00:10:07
captain pointed out priority over your life and my life priority number one is drugs yeah priority number two is money
00:10:15
why is money priority number two because they can get drugs they're going to use
00:10:20
it to get drugs and how do we know that priority number two is money because they always trade money for drugs so the
00:10:27
thing here is now you got to wonder if they are recreational users do we have a couple of other possible motives one did
00:10:35
somebody believe that they could find a large quantity of drugs inside the home I don't think that there's anything in
00:10:41
Johnny's background or Lisa's background to suggest that people would expect to find large quantities of drugs in a home
00:10:49
that doesn't even belong to either of these individuals it belongs to Leisa st's parents no I I understand that but
00:10:57
I the reason why I wanted to be clear on where this audio clip was coming from and to point
00:11:06
out rumors Lisa's family has a lot of money play the telephone game that that turns into oh yeah I bet they have a
00:11:15
safe with a bunch of money that turns into somebody thinking that's fact or hey you know I heard Johnny and Lisa
00:11:24
were going to have some people over on Saturday night so they bought a lot of drugs for their party I mean it's not
00:11:31
that hard for these stupid Rumors in a small town to get started well and one thing I want to be clear of
00:11:40
too is one thing that we're going to see as we get further into the suspects and
00:11:46
to the where the investigation and evidence starts to direct law enforcement is to
00:11:54
Toledo not to Holland okay and to some of the people in Toledo Holland is considered upper class right and like
00:12:04
you're pointing out here Captain is when you take somebody from lower class and you put them inside the home or tell
00:12:12
them about this home of Lisa str's parents who are doing well for themselves they go oh yeah they got
00:12:19
money yeah I've seen their house or oh I've heard about it they got money and it doesn't take a whole lot to imply
00:12:27
that to somebody that comes from another side of the tracks and what we're going
00:12:32
to consistently see in this case in this investigation that most if not all of those suspects are going to come from
00:12:41
that other side of the tracks if you will right and so now what we have going on here Captain is we have two good kids
00:12:48
look Lisa didn't have any money she works at TGI Fridays nothing wrong with that I was a server I was a bartender
00:12:54
for a long time good job still sometimes serves people I enjoy it and Johnny was getting ready to go to
00:13:05
school right and I'm not I'm unclear he may have been between jobs at this time school was going to be one his main
00:13:13
focus and unfortunately you know when we have a funeral it usually happens just days
00:13:19
after one passes away Johnny was supposed to start school to be a barber to he wanted to open up a
00:13:30
barber shop and own a small business yeah on that day that he was supposed to start school instead it was his
00:13:38
funeral so that's how close he was to we we talk about advancing ourselves in life that's how close he was if if you
00:13:49
want to say he had a drug problem and you know Johnny fine I didn't know him what what the evidence tells me is
00:13:56
exactly what's reported in by most of these sources that he had a recreational use problem
00:14:02
and that he may have been working his way out of it yeah and I can't throw shade on anybody because you know I I've
00:14:08
had my vices in the past well and their kids they're 20 and 21 yeah a lot of that time is it's a
00:14:16
experimental phase I got about two and a half years that I can't even remember and it happened in that same time period
00:14:23
that we just talked about at my age well we remember cuz we all tell the stories
00:14:27
yeah I was like uh like like Joe Walsh for about two years two and a half years yeah I got about 22 years I can't
00:14:37
remember this is such a difficult case I mean I think it's I think some of it is
00:14:43
because of the 911 calls and and you just feel so bad for the family and what they actually had to witness because a
00:14:52
lot of times the family doesn't actually witness the victims and the victim state
00:14:59
mhm and you have these two young kids on the verge of starting their adult lives and like we
00:15:11
said the evidence as far as drug use it's just it could be experimental phase but this
00:15:19
phase was connecting them with I think the wrong type of people yes people that they normally would not associate with
00:15:28
right and and keep in mind too it's going to be persons when we say associate with
00:15:34
we're going to see a one one factor repeated over and over in this investigation at people that they
00:15:41
looked at these may not even been close friends with our victims these were people
00:15:46
that their associate on their Social Circle persons that were on the fringes of their Social Circle right are
00:15:54
Associates with the Suspects so let's attempt to go down the trail that we believe the detectives
00:16:03
would have followed here so detective kak is going to be the lead investigator for much of this investigation and of
00:16:11
course he's going to want to talk to Tiffany Williams right so remember yeah because
00:16:16
we have a red flag with the with the mom saying hey look this is this is all strange and suspicious and if the mom is
00:16:26
suspicious of an individual that's where you need to start that's obviously also
00:16:30
who they were planning on hanging out with and they never met they never made that connection that day correct so so
00:16:38
when the detective sits down with Tiffany Williams she describes going to her friend Zach's house to obtain some
00:16:45
pills and while there she says she called Johnny at 10:41 this is that call that we've discussed at length here and
00:16:53
this is she says for the purpose of firming up their plans for that night she states that Johnny picked up the
00:17:00
phone didn't say hello says bro what are you doing or something to that effect and then she says that the
00:17:08
call drops well not necessarily drops but Johnny hangs up saying he would call her back he does not call back she tells
00:17:16
the detective that she discussed this call with Zach and we know the outcome of this situation we know that when she
00:17:25
receives no response at some point she and Zach drive out to Lisa's house now how did they get in contact with
00:17:35
Johnny's parents is what I'm going to want to know as the detective and why do they go to reach out to Johnny's parents
00:17:44
they say it's because they were concerned and they couldn't get in touch with Johnny and Lisa so what will we
00:17:50
learn Captain is that Zach will reach out to an individual named Ruben rowes now Reuben the reason why Zack wants to
00:18:00
reach out to him is because he knows he and Tiffany know that Ruben is Johnny's best friend like lifelong best friend he
00:18:09
might know one what's going on with Johnny but if he doesn't know he's going to know somebody that they can contact
00:18:15
correct so now we learn that Tiffany and Zach do not know or possess the ability
00:18:20
to get in touch with Johnny's family now Reuben says we tell police that Zack asked if they could pick him
00:18:30
up and go to the stob house with them now Reuben says Ruben is is clean okay Ruben he's never had a drug problem he
00:18:41
doesn't have a police background doesn't have a record no History of Violence he says look when
00:18:48
this dude calls me I know that Zach is a problem I know that he has a drug problem and I don't really know the guy
00:18:56
very well so I wasn't willing to go any with them in the middle of the night right yeah I was concerned about my
00:19:02
friend and so then that is when Tiffany is forced to call Sharita because their first
00:19:11
person they attempted to go to Ruben does not want any involvement Sharita then is the one that calls Johnny's
00:19:18
parents okay and again remember Sharita is more of more a peer of Johnny's friends and people that would
00:19:26
be of Johnny's age she's much younger than Johnny's parents now we have the parents at the scene and all that's
00:19:35
going on that we already already are aware about but we know that police the authorities took down Tiffany's
00:19:41
information and Zach's contact information before allowing them to leave that night the other thing here Captain is
00:19:49
we've talked about the drugs I want to Circle back to something real quick the detectives when they start
00:19:55
talking to Johnny and poli's Inner Circle and then expanding outward from there that's
00:20:03
when they the police catch wind of this thought and this rumor that's going around that there was a safe or maybe a
00:20:09
large sum of money kept at the stob home right so now we have police working with
00:20:16
a theory that makes a whole hell of a lot of sense a couple things we we can shrink
00:20:22
our suspect pool very quickly here there are things going on socially that are telling us that one
00:20:31
it's very likely that the perpetrators would have either known Johnny and or Lisa or would have known people that did
00:20:41
know them because if we have people saying that Johnny bragged a couple of times or maybe just once about there
00:20:48
being a safe or maybe the stobs got a bunch of money it was one of his friends that
00:20:54
heard that and they had to tell somebody else if it wasn't one of his in Circle that is responsible for what happened to
00:21:00
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mates to the windows to the walls onward and upward tall C hands in the air cheers to the people in the back so when
00:25:00
you have a a homicide of course you want to look at the Inner Circle but but here we have
00:25:07
something different we have Johnny and Lisa are supposed to meet up with somebody to me if I'm law enforcement
00:25:14
that's the first person that I'm questioning and we don't know what type of person this is and like we said if
00:25:21
they're in a experimental phase with drugs they're in experimental phase with friends and who is this Tiffany and
00:25:30
here's a little clip of her they're calling an interrogation but a questioning by law enforcement I think
00:25:37
this kind of shows you a little glimpse of who she is and her her recall of the events that night I want to go over that
00:25:46
conversation again in detail that's fine all right you call Johnny on the phone mhm how many times did it ring you think
00:25:54
remember um once or twice okay one to two rings picked it right up mhm you know it was Johnny
00:26:06
Yes how long of a pause before he said anything he didn't say hello all right so he never said anything never said
00:26:13
hello so all right so you're on the phone mhm how long before you hear anything on the phone did you what did
00:26:20
you like as soon as he picked it up he didn't say hello to me but he was like bro what are you doing all right I want
00:26:27
to get this down again bro what are you doing okay okay and he said that approximately three
00:26:37
times okay then all right let give me his voice was it bro what are you doing or
00:26:44
bro what are you doing yeah just like that he sounded pissed yeah did he sound scared no he just sounded pissed just
00:26:52
pissed yeah all right so you hear you hear bro what are you doing three times Johnny sounds pissed mhm all right then
00:26:58
what he say then the next thing he said was who the hell are you how many times um once and then
00:27:11
that's when I heard the other person in the background but I couldn't hear what he was
00:27:18
saying so you overheard a voice in the background Guy voice you're sure it was a guy positive it was a
00:27:26
guy have you ever heard it before no well I really couldn't tell you know what I
00:27:33
mean but okay all right so then what then he asked again bro what are you doing after
00:27:42
he said who after the three times he said it here he said it again yeah and that's when this guy was talking so
00:27:48
that's why I couldn't hear him is because Johnny was say him um bro what are you doing once
00:27:56
again all right did you hear anything in the background like a door closed footsteps it sound like Johnny was did
00:28:05
he sound pissed here again mhm did he sound pissed here yeah did he sound like he was out of breath no did he sound
00:28:12
like he was scared or nervous no did he sound like he knew them people mhm that's why I said I think that whoever
00:28:22
did it he knew because you know if you knew JN how did he end the conversation with you T
00:28:30
I'm going to call you back and H on okay now not he didn't give me a chance to talk okay he just hangs out he says
00:28:37
he'll call you back okay which means he probably knows who's in the house MH okay now you
00:28:47
call who I didn't call nobody who did you call to tell him that conversation with
00:28:55
Johnny nobody I just told Zach okay how did Johnny's mom find out about the phone conversation um after I had drove
00:29:03
out to their house and there was no response I drove back to Lisa's house well after I left Lisa's house I drove
00:29:11
back and I was like well maybe they're just ignoring us we just drive around look for him and I called my friend
00:29:17
Sharita to get Ruben's number which is Johnny's best friend so that I could get in
00:29:25
contact well see if Johnny could if he would answer the to Ruben and then Ruben didn't get an answer then we can get
00:29:31
hold of the family and let the family know cuz I just thought maybe he was ignoring me why would you listen listen
00:29:38
listen why with that conversation would you let somebody's family know that hey something's wrong I
00:29:51
wasn't calling to let him know something was wrong I was calling to let him know
00:29:55
like can you get him will he pick up the phone to you because like I he told me he'd call me back I didn't think nothing
00:30:02
was because you were yes I was very concerned about what was going on yeah because it was like no
00:30:09
I was not getting no response cuz right after I heard that I called Lisa's phone
00:30:14
and there was no pickup and then I called her a couple more times no answer so I texted her like are you okay and
00:30:21
she didn't answer then I kept calling Johnny's phone Zach said he was doing the same also and they wasn't picking up
00:30:28
so that's when I started calling you know his best friend to see if he would answer to his best friend and he was
00:30:33
just ignoring us because he didn't want to share pills or you know what I mean that's what I thought all it was that's
00:30:40
very telling to me there Captain here we have the det I think it's it's utter it's utter confusion to me thank you for
00:30:49
saying that because that will prove a point that that I have for all the beautiful listeners out there so there's
00:30:56
three key key elements to this portion of the discussion before we get to those three key elements here and the three
00:31:04
key elements to Tiffany Williams herself is one a portion of the clip that we did not hear is because it's a
00:31:13
rather lengthy clip right it's probably 20 to 30 minutes long total and the part that we don't hear is that
00:31:24
prior to going through this exchange that Tiffany Williams has said occurred between her and Johnny is that before
00:31:32
the detectives get into the words of that conversation the detective clearly is locking Tiffany Williams into a
00:31:43
truth or a fallacy by saying your phone when you you called Johnny but he's clarifying you called him not by means
00:31:52
of a landline or Zach's phone or somebody else's phone your phone you call called Johnny with your phone at
00:31:59
10:41 and she says correct my phone so the reason why we're locking her into that is because we are going to
00:32:07
be able to pull those records and prove if that part of the story is right or not because we have a lot that seems to
00:32:14
be riding on what this conversation was between Tiffany and Johnny you hear them the detectives
00:32:22
trying to figure out based off of Tiffany's words if Johnny was upset if he was pissed if he was surprised if he
00:32:28
was scared if he knew the individuals if he didn't know the individuals right but
00:32:34
I want to keep in mind and I know that I keep harping on this same idea here that
00:32:42
conversation if it went down that way only matters if it went down that way we have Tiffany Williams who I am
00:32:49
incredibly suspicious of and welcome to the party welcome to the club there's a lot of people that are suspicious of her
00:32:57
well let's point out a couple obvious things the cops are trying to get her to say
00:33:07
that you're concerned because of the call that you heard and she's not even smart enough to realize I just I need to
00:33:17
keep going back to what was concerned by his actions on that phone call but she's
00:33:23
more concerned that they're trying to do drugs and not include them in the drug usage I think what the detectives are
00:33:33
trying to point out and the corner that they're trying to back her into is oh you were so concerned about that call
00:33:40
and what you say you heard on that call but you don't act on that concern until two hours later so it doesn't seem like
00:33:49
you were really concerned about what you heard on that call this going back to the same idea that I keep I'm beating a
00:33:56
dead horse here Captain we don't have Johnny to tell us what was said on that call we only have
00:34:04
Tiffany Williams who can tell us what was said on that call I don't think any of that [ __ ] that she says happened on
00:34:11
that call I mean and this shows you though like the lengths that somebody will go
00:34:19
to she is telling us these are the links that we're you're not answering your phone you might be doing
00:34:28
we know you have some pills you might be doing these pills without us well who do
00:34:34
we know that he might answer his phone for call his best friend and of course the best friend
00:34:41
thinks this whole interaction is fishy to begin with it's it's very strange well I like that you point out
00:34:52
that the the her explanation when she's trying to explain her actions you know who did you call and
00:35:00
when did you call them and why you hear that toward the end of the clip it's all
00:35:04
very confusing and muddled correct yeah you know why that is because it's easy to tell the truth
00:35:14
it's difficult to lie and what's happened here is that clip our victims were killed January 30th January
00:35:25
31st mhm without a doubt okay that interview is taking place March 23rd by this time Tiffany
00:35:35
Williams has explained the same story to M and Johnny's family multiple times she's explained the story to the police
00:35:45
and detectives multiple times why does she sound so damn confused there someone's going to say Nick well she's
00:35:51
got a drug problem fine but I'm going to point out here it's difficult to lie it's easy to tell the truth she sounds
00:35:58
confused here because she's trying to recall what she's told all these people along the way and keep her story
00:36:04
straight and now it's getting very difficult for her to do that now 3 months later or sorry now it's getting
00:36:13
difficult for her to do this almost two months later well if you go back to the calls to
00:36:19
911 when she's telling the story there it's a lot of um um um you do that when you're trying to think of your next
00:36:32
statement if you made a phone call and you were really concerned and you went okay well we got this weird phone call
00:36:39
and then I started calling him and he didn't answer the phone so then I called his girlfriend and she didn't answer the
00:36:44
phone so we decided to go over there and we rang the doorbell and and they didn't
00:36:49
answer so then we tried to call their phone again I wasn't even there and I can tell
00:36:54
you the story without going uh uh uh so I think even back to the day in question you can almost hear her trying
00:37:07
to think of what the best thing to say is well she's she's getting caught there and the police almost had her the
00:37:16
detectives almost had her when she starts getting confused and she starts sounding confused in her delivery as to
00:37:22
what she did and why they're asking her specifically well why did you reach out to the family well cuz I was concerned
00:37:30
about that phone call okay well that doesn't make sense because you waited 2 hours oh well I knew that they could get
00:37:35
in touch with them I wasn't so concerned I I just knew that they could get in touch with them and I was I thought
00:37:40
maybe they were just avoiding us or not answering our calls or maybe they didn't
00:37:44
want to share pills with us so now she's got a different explanation that has that has no meaning on the prior
00:37:50
question or her prior explanation and the the reason why this is all key is because of something that
00:37:57
she said way too early she done [ __ ] up oh Dro in the f bomb the first 911 call by m to the police what does m say
00:38:09
to the police I got this call from Tiffany some girl named Tiffany and she's saying that uh there was this
00:38:16
weird phone call that she would had with my son and it sounded like people were breaking into the house and she's
00:38:23
calling us and saying that she's concerned and that she went over there and she saw the house was ransacked and
00:38:27
I'm worried that my son has been abducted or or something worse has happened during the course of a robbery
00:38:34
Tiffany said to M that she went to the home and saw that it had been ransacked that cannot be this is a big
00:38:42
problem this is a big problem for Tiffany and here's why because what do we know these are facts man these like
00:38:50
you C people out there can can question a lot of what I say sometimes because some of because you're an idiot
00:38:56
speculation thanks Captain right uh but the thing here is this is not speculation these are these are words
00:39:04
that's why we're P playing these recordings for you because they're not the Colonel's words my tast says to the
00:39:10
911 operator this is before she goes to the scene before her husband's at the scene that this girl says that she was
00:39:18
at the scene and saw that the place was rans act and that's why she called it she was concerned the problem with that
00:39:24
portion of her story is get who else went to that scene the police yeah they did not see any reason for probable
00:39:31
cause they did not see that the home had been ransacked M and her husband went to the scene into the home and what did
00:39:40
they say all the blinds were closed we couldn't see in we only kicked down the door once we hoisted somebody up into
00:39:48
the air to see into that window and I wish there was photographic evidence and and maybe there is by law enforcement
00:39:58
but like you said this is a big this is a big deal because the police walked all
00:40:03
the way around the home attempted to look in every window guess what they couldn't see anything because all the
00:40:08
blinds were closed right the first question of that night should be well how did you see this how did you see
00:40:17
something that we're not able to see Johnny's father walked around the entirety of that home and looked in
00:40:23
every window couldn't see everything because anything because the blinds were closed M walked around the home looked
00:40:29
in every window couldn't see anything because the blinds were closed yet this woman who
00:40:35
claims she saw that the home had been ransacked and that's why she's concerned and that's why she reached out to the
00:40:42
parents because she's concerned for the safety of her friends the only way she would have known at that time when she
00:40:49
contacted the parents that the home had been ransacked there's only two explanations either she was in the home
00:40:55
and had seen that the outcome yeah or that somebody that was in the home had told her and gave her that knowledge
00:41:03
there's no other way around it it's one of those two situations which means she was either there when the attack
00:41:09
happened or she knows who did the attack well like you said we have cell phone technology shouldn't they be able to say
00:41:20
well if if she actually took this call from Johnny at at what you say 10 she made the call remember that's why they
00:41:26
purposely cleared that up right right she made from your phone you called him at
00:41:31
10:41 right because couldn't they do cell phone ping technology and put her at that Residence at that time she
00:41:40
doesn't have to be there to be involved true yeah again she could have had knowledge somebody that was inside
00:41:48
the home could have told her yeah we ransacked the place yeah yeah we we ripped up the place we killed him and we
00:41:54
tore the place to pieces yeah because we were looking for drugs or we were looking for money what do you mean you
00:42:00
guys didn't find anything we looked everywhere we looked everywhere we tore the place
00:42:05
apart so yeah they can do self-own technology and and and here's the next question that people go they go well
00:42:12
then why the hell would she alert the family right that doesn't make any sense no it doesn't make any sense it actually
00:42:20
does make complete sense they didn't try to alert the family they wanted to alert
00:42:25
Reuben right Johnny's friend remember they offered to pick up Reuben and bring him
00:42:30
back to the stob home they wanted to alert somebody but they had to they had to alert somebody and here's the thing
00:42:38
Reuben too smart says you know what I'm not going over there I don't know you guys very well you got a drug problem
00:42:44
I'm not getting in a car with you but he's concerned enough for his friend they contact the parents they had
00:42:51
to contact someone why why would they have to contact someone because of the cell phone
00:42:59
records right right they know they figured it out two hours too damn late wait a second the
00:43:08
police are probably going to want to know why I called Johnny who ends up dead yeah now I've got to explain that
00:43:15
away oh well I couldn't have been involved because when I called him there was already something going on yeah or
00:43:23
also the fact that if they had plans at all to meet up then who did Johnny tell that we're
00:43:31
going to meet up with Tiffany who did Lisa possibly tell right they have to be able to explain away the
00:43:40
plan the possible plans if there ever were any right because again that's we only have Tiffany to tell us that but
00:43:47
then on top of that because according to Johnny's family when they spoke to him he said they had no plans for the night
00:43:54
they were going to go home they were going to chill right that could be true now the thing
00:43:59
here is you're exactly right Captain if they had plans with Tiffany now she's got to explain away why those plans
00:44:05
didn't happen and why she could not have been involved right and the way that she's trying to explain that away is
00:44:12
alerting someone that oh by the way when I talked to him at 10:41 he was he was pissed he was confused there was
00:44:20
somebody like breaking into the house right then and there yeah so her own words means that she has knowledge of
00:44:32
the she has knowledge of these crimes that she was privy to before the police were before Johnny's parents were before
00:44:41
anybody else that arrived on that scene and the only way that she could have had
00:44:45
that knowledge was to either a be there or be somebody gave her that knowledge but
00:44:55
we have this this messy crime scene I mean this I mean this is what's so horrible like I said is most of the
00:45:03
time the victims family do not see the victims in the victim state but we have DNA
00:45:14
evidence yeah we have plenty of DNA evidence so as mentioned we had some that was found on Johnny's
00:45:20
sweatpants and they also collected DNA from the cell phones so what happens at some point here Captain the perpetrators
00:45:29
they rip the batteries from Lisa and Johnny's cell phones and I believe they even broke the cell phones themselves
00:45:36
and the cell phones were recovered different sources either on top of the victims or nearby the victims right and
00:45:44
so this act of breaking and removing the battery puts perpetrator DNA on those cell phones also on the sweatpants
00:45:54
here's what I'm I would love to know and we talked about this when we we talked about Richard Allen's vehicle the the
00:46:01
suspect in the deli case being confiscated and and and uh searching that vehicle and we've talked about this
00:46:08
plenty of times I love the logic that is applied to a crime scene by these technicians because guess what they have
00:46:18
this is a big house they would have the whole house and every item that was ransacked knocked to the floor pulled
00:46:23
out of drawers to check you can't check every Dam thing so what do you do you have to prioritize where you are going
00:46:30
to be looking for fingerprints and DNA and blood and what do we know about the crime
00:46:38
scene what does the crime scene tell us well the crime scene is talking to the technicians and the crime scene
00:46:45
says somebody either emptied Johnny's wallet or made sure that it was empty yeah
00:46:52
where does one keep their wallet in their pant pocket so where will we one where's One
00:46:58
location that we will prioritize looking for physical evidence Johnny's pants pockets and so well think about that too
00:47:07
because even if you're wearing gloves that normally you have a space between like even if you're wearing long like a
00:47:16
long sleeve shirt you have that space in between and that would make contact if you're reaching into somebody's pocket
00:47:24
correct and where on his pants do they find DNA evidence his pants pocket so very likely somebody reached in and
00:47:34
removed his wallet and then took money out of it or made sure that it was empty right and what's what's interesting here
00:47:40
too again the crime scene what is it telling us what is it telling the technicians and the investigators we
00:47:47
know there was a sign of a struggle Johnny was a big guy he was strong he was a he was a weightlifter bodybuilder
00:47:53
at one time he put up a struggle we know that the the crime scene shows a struggle at
00:47:59
the at the door going from the garage into the home it's believed that that's where Johnny tried to fend off the
00:48:06
Intruder Intruders well the Intruder may have injured themselves during the course of
00:48:12
that scuffle right it is blood it's blood evidence that they find that will give them the DNA evidence in
00:48:21
Johnny's pocket so as you said perpetrator reached in pulled out that wallet and left a little something of
00:48:29
them behind unknowingly at the crime scene the other location that they find DNA evidence is on the duct tape which
00:48:37
is which is often a place that people will find DNA evidence and here's why how many times have you
00:48:45
witnessed a person for any number of reasons you're you know you're just out doing something whatever how they either
00:48:52
have to tear the duct tape cut it or a lot of people stick the end in their mouth and use their teeth and tear it
00:48:59
off right that saliva is going to leave DNA evidence on that duct tape so they find DNA on the duct tape Johnny's p
00:49:08
pocket and they also find it on the cigarette butt now of their suspects and they talk to a lot of people here some
00:49:15
of them agree to polygraph some don't some agree to a DNA swab some don't they end up collecting I believe it's about
00:49:22
two dozen DNA swabs from persons that they talked to and again not everybody was willing to
00:49:29
consent to this two individuals that did not consent in fact two individuals that
00:49:36
were not even on police's radar get immediately pulled into this case none of the DNA that they had
00:49:45
collected matched that on the duct tape the pants pocket or the cigarette butt but on the cigarette butt the
00:49:54
Newport cigarette that was found at the crime scene near the door to the garage yielded
00:50:03
two DNA donors and both of those individuals had a criminal background so they are
00:50:11
already listed in codus right when police check the DNA found at the scene against
00:50:19
codus it delivers them to Prime suspects that they were unaware of one Samuel Todd
00:50:27
Williams and two Cameo pedway well what happened to you aside today there's some things that Mr Ross and I
00:50:43
would like to talk to you about okay uh we ran some names by you um you've been advised your rights and
00:50:54
stuff um you're saying you never been to that house can we get to the to the me of
00:51:08
what we want to talk to you about then we we a problem at dead house last winter did you hear anything about
00:51:15
it no okay couple kids were found dead in there uh young adults and uh they were probably the victim of a
00:51:34
burglary they got bum rushed in the place you know what we're talking about bum rushed somebody just crashes in on
00:51:40
you and maybe robs you or burglarizes your house I mean you know what we're talking
00:51:47
about okay so that's what happened to these young couples so how did my name get brought up in this science
00:51:58
I don't understand how well remember when these guys respond to a scat and they go in
00:52:06
there you're a criminal justice major right according off the area everybody that is involved in that
00:52:15
Scene goes in they start collecting evidence okay these guys collected a lot of evidence and they had a a lot of
00:52:25
evidence tested for DNA do you know what DNA is okay explain to us what you think DNA
00:52:33
is me you saliva whatever saliva poop piss skin cells hair follicles all that stuff gives up an
00:52:46
individuals individual characteristics do you buy that based on what you've been taught in
00:52:53
school I haven't I'm only doing my like basic courses right now I'm not doing they will tell you soon enough the DNA
00:53:02
is like fingerprints you know there's no two fingerprints that are alike there's
00:53:07
no two dnas that are alike each of us have a separate one if they tested Jeff here he it come up with a certain row of
00:53:16
numbers that mean something to the scientist they tested you you'd come up with a different bunch of numbers in a
00:53:23
row that means something to the s scientist but yours would be like Jeff's if I Spit on a cotton swab and they did
00:53:31
my DNA numbers would come up mine would not be like yours mine would not be like
00:53:37
his we're all separate just like if they took our fingerprints tonight your fingerprint would be
00:53:44
different from Jeff's be different from mine mine would be different from him and from you you understand where we're
00:53:52
going it's Unique to the individual there's no two DN that are alike totally understand it okay okay now when these
00:54:02
guys collected a lot of pieces of evidence in there that were involved in this crime they sent it down to Bowling Green
00:54:09
for testing okay and items in that scene came back with your DNA on it okay how do you explain that
00:54:25
how can we explain that I have no idea you've never been to that house never been to you don't know those kids I
00:54:32
don't know them people and your DNA is in that house I don't know you have no idea no do you
00:54:43
understand where that puts you do you understand where this is going [Music] if you are a member of law enforcement
00:55:07
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00:55:19
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