00:00:27
Heat. Heat. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
00:00:46
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is my brother from another mother. He is the captain. Thank
00:00:53
you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen. and it's good to see you. Today we are drinking Devil's Triangle
00:01:06
by Florida Beer Company in beautiful Cape Canaveral, Florida. Garage Grade four out of five bottle caps. Mhm. I
00:01:13
said it last week, Captain. This is IPA weather. So, check out this IPA. Devil's
00:01:18
Triangle has a hazy golden amber color with hints of citrus and grapefruit to start and a strong pine bitter finish.
00:01:25
And Devil's Triangle was brought to us by these little devils. First up, we have Vanessa in Wellington, New Zealand.
00:01:31
Like your G him. Next, we have Robin in Jeffersonville, Indiana. >> And all the way up in Kingston, Ontario.
00:01:38
A big shout out to Sherry. >> Next, we have Frank in Gatesburg, Maryland. Frank says, "Great show.
00:01:44
America needs you. >> America needs you." He loves funky music and our desire for justice.
00:01:51
>> That's cuz we're in we're in America. We got to keep it funky in America. >> Also, we want to give a shout out to
00:01:57
Tony and Sabrina in Brick, New Jersey. Tony, congratulations to you for 7 years of sobriety. So, hats off to you, my
00:02:05
friend. >> Cheers to you. Well, cheers to that. >> You can take your hats off to you.
00:02:10
>> I tip my hat to you, my friend. >> And we've been flooded with birthday shoutouts. So, first up, we say happy
00:02:15
birthday to April, who is celebrating. And we also give a big birthday shout out to Helena Lee. Happy 30th, Helena.
00:02:22
>> All right. And then 25th birthday. Big shout out goes to Ryan in southern Ontario. His girlfriend sent that. She
00:02:31
must actually really like you, Ryan. So, happy birthday to everybody out there. And thank everybody for filling up the
00:02:36
fridge this week. And if you want to pitch in for next week's show, go to true crimegar.com and click on the
00:02:41
donate button. >> And guess what number we were sitting at last night? Do you know?
00:02:46
>> Sitting at four >> for worldwide >> worldwide rankings of podcast shows. Well, I don't even know it's worldwide
00:02:53
ranking. It might just be America ranking. We're number 35th. Number fifth. 35th in in the United States of
00:03:01
America. >> We can't take credit for that. We got to give credit to the listeners.
00:03:05
>> Big shout out to you guys. Thanks for telling a friend. Thanks for playing. Somebody was telling me about this road
00:03:10
trip they took and they were playing the show for everybody. Now they're hooked.
00:03:14
Now they're in the garage. Now they want to do some partying with Nick and the captain.
00:03:19
>> The garage is getting full. We might have to change this to true crime warehouse.
00:03:24
>> If you'd like to give us a fivestar rating, do so on iTunes now. It helps the show tons. And I will be shipping
00:03:32
the t-shirts this week, the douche canoe shirts. So, look forward to that. And that's enough of the business. Everybody
00:03:40
gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. in December of 2008.
00:04:16
You learned in December of 2008 that the remains of your granddaughter were found. Is that correct?
00:04:27
>> Yes, sir. >> What effect did that have on you when you learned that Haley's remains had
00:04:33
been found? >> A deep a deep hurt inside. tears, the whole gamut of just an emotional
00:04:51
loss, a breakdown inside of me and seeing what my wife and my son went through. Up to that moment, had you held out the
00:05:03
hope that Kaye would be found alive? Absolutely. every day from July 15th until the day we were told
00:05:14
it was Kaye. In January of 2009, you went Oh, I'll give you need a break and stand.
00:05:41
>> No, sir. I need to get through this. I need to have something inside of me get
00:05:47
through this. >> You need a breaking stand? >> No, sir. I'm fine. On January, Just let me know when you're when you're
00:05:57
okay. >> I'm okay, sir. >> On January 22nd of 2009, Mr. Anthony, you went and got a gun,
00:06:05
didn't you? >> Yes. My understanding of the events of this date are that Mr. Anthony went and
00:06:13
got a gun. that he did so with the purpose, I believe he will testify, he did so with
00:06:20
the purpose of forcing people who he believed might know something about who killed Kaye, specifically friends or
00:06:29
boyfriends of the defendant with the intention of forcing them to reveal what they knew and then taking his own life.
00:06:40
It is revealed in the suicide note and I believe he will testify that that's what
00:06:46
happened. The defense has brought up the suicide. I do so the court knows intend for him
00:06:55
to identify his suicide note and in my case I do intend to offer it because it shows that on January 22nd of 2009 this
00:07:07
man had no idea who killed Kaylee Marie Anthony and it rebutts implications by the defense that he did
00:07:17
is directly contradictory to the defenses argument and it is proof and I do have case law when we try to admit
00:07:26
the note but at this point the circumstances of the suicide were raised by defense council when he asked the
00:07:32
question about that event and I believe I'm entitled to go into that on the 22nd
00:07:38
of January of 2009. This is um approximately six weeks after the remains were found.
00:07:48
Did you travel to a hotel in Daytona Beach for the purposes of taking your own life?
00:07:57
>> Yes, sir. Why on that particular day did you decide to take your life? Why that particular day I picked that? I
00:08:13
I really don't know. All I know is my emotional state even through today is uh is very hard to accept that I don't have
00:08:23
a granddaughter anymore. But for that particular day, I don't know, it just felt like the
00:08:30
right time to go and be with Kaye. >> Did you uh call relatives and perhaps not literally, but say good say
00:08:40
your last goodbyes to them? tomorrow. I wanted to talk to my parents, uh, my sisters. I know. I called my son
00:08:52
and my wife and just just somehow I was okay. Um, yes. Just say goodbye for the last time.
00:09:02
>> Did Did any of them try to get you to tell where you were? You do you remember
00:09:06
the the the content of the conversations? No, because really I I was supposed to be going to a meeting
00:09:10
that day and uh I just I don't know. I just decided that was the time for me to get away from all this to spend time
00:09:20
with Kaye. The trial of Casey Anthony. The trial of the woman that the media was calling the
00:09:40
most hated woman in America is about to be underway. But before we get eyeballs deep into the trial, just a couple of
00:09:49
little tidbits leading up to it. We have April 14th, 2009. That's when the state
00:09:55
of Florida announces that they will seek the death penalty in the trial against Casey Anthony. January 26, 2010, Casey
00:10:05
Anthony pleads guilty for 13 fraudulent check charges. In April of 2010, Judge Stan Strickland
00:10:15
steps down after the defense team files a motion accusing him of having inappropriate conversations with a
00:10:23
blogger. Mhm. >> Now, this blogger go who goes by the name of Marinade Dave, he blogged about
00:10:29
the Casey Anthony case often. Uh, and he had articles about the case and one of his articles was titled Casey Anthony
00:10:37
must die. Strickland basically had >> Well, that guy was just getting right to the point. Yeah, he it seems like the
00:10:44
blogger had already chose his side and it might be easily considered inappropriate for the judge to be having
00:10:52
interactions with this blogger. >> Mhm. >> Basically, Judge Strickland had a private meeting with the blogger, having
00:10:59
lunch with him, uh discussing the case and even giving him a tour of sorts of the court building.
00:11:05
>> Um and it turns out that Judge Stan Strickland was a fan of Marinade Dave. So after the defense files the motion,
00:11:14
Stan Strickland steps down for the trial. >> Strickland would make a comment to the
00:11:19
media stating that it appears that the truth and Miss Anthony are strangers. >> Yes, that was a comment that he had
00:11:27
made. And of course, Jose Bayz and the defense team later would state that this is a big-time inappropriate statement
00:11:34
for the judge to be making. So we now have Judge Belvin Perry Jr. who is appointed to take over the case.
00:11:42
>> Mhm. >> August 14th, 2010, Cindy Anthony appears as a guest on the Today Show where she
00:11:49
calls Casey Anthony a victim and she also claims that she is not involved with what happened to Kayle's remains.
00:11:58
Later that month, George and Cindy Anony's attorney, Brad Conway, he steps down because he disputes a Joseé Bayz
00:12:07
motion claiming Conway was given unrestricted access to documents belonging to Texas Equaarch,
00:12:14
>> to which the defense team was not given the same access. Before jury selection, the defense filed
00:12:22
a motion for a change of venue to move the trial out of Orlando. you know, you we have this this this case that's about
00:12:30
to go to trial. >> It's probably going to be the biggest case. They kind of knew this
00:12:34
>> going in. I mean, because the media coverage before the trial was gigantic. And I think this is probably because of,
00:12:42
you know, the precursor like the OJ Simpson trial. >> Yeah. And you have, like you said, we
00:12:48
have this media circus. We have all these people. She's already been basically convicted in the public's eye.
00:12:55
Wouldn't you agree? And >> and the thing here is Joseé Bayz and the defense team, well, they have an
00:13:01
obligation to their client to provide her with a fair trial and they don't think that they're going to be able to
00:13:09
get that in Orlando with all the media coverage that they have had. So, they filed for this motion of change of
00:13:14
venue. Um, and it's Bayas says that he was hoping that the trial would get moved to a place like Miami, you know, a
00:13:22
place that that has a lot more going on, the more hustle and bustle where people
00:13:27
weren't so in tune or so locked into all the media coverage of this case. Mhm. >> What ends up happening is Judge Perry
00:13:35
decides that they would not have a change of venue in order to find a fair jury, but rather the judge would select
00:13:41
a city for the jury pool and they would bus this jury into Orlando. And the location when when he says this, the
00:13:51
location of his choosing is not revealed to anyone for a while, but it is announced later that St.
00:13:58
Petersburg/clearwater, Florida would be the location for the jury pool, which is actually it's
00:14:05
curious why he picks this location because it's only about an hour and a half away from Orlando.
00:14:10
>> Mhm. And now at this point, we're at the jury selection. So, let's dive into that
00:14:15
for a minute. >> Yeah. After the trial, defense attorney Jose Bayas spoke of what they were
00:14:20
looking for as they tried to strategize about shaping the jury to its liking. Jose said that the plan was to avoid
00:14:28
young mothers and especially single mothers, stating that young and/or single mothers would be constantly
00:14:35
comparing themselves or comparing Casey to themselves throughout the trial. And they most likely would have a strong
00:14:42
hate for Casey or at the very least may convict her of murder just because they feel that she is a bad mother.
00:14:49
>> Mhm. Uh they were hoping to fill the jury with as many males over the age of 45 as possible. Uh the thinking here is
00:14:58
that uh an older the older men may look at a female of Casey's age pretty much as like a child
00:15:07
>> um where you might be more willing to forgive a child or maybe overlook some acts that a child would make. Uh on May
00:15:15
20th, 2011, after 11 days of jury selection, Judge Perry swears in a jury of five men and
00:15:23
seven women, plus three men and two women as alternate jurors. Now, I want to take just a minute here and go
00:15:30
through the jury uh that was selected for this trial, and we'll we'll we'll let them remain nameless, but we'll talk
00:15:37
about them, how the prosecutor as well as the defense team kind of saw them going into this selection process. Now,
00:15:44
the first woman that was selected, she's an elderly Caucasian woman, and she's a
00:15:49
retired nurse. Now, the defense was happy about this selection because, you know, older women, she's a nurse. Nurse,
00:15:57
nurses tend to be uh nurturing. Um and the defense also thought that there was some problems with some of the forensic
00:16:04
evidence that the nurse might have somewhat of an understanding of. Um the second juror was a 45year-old
00:16:12
African-American male. Uh he's an IT guy. Uh we've already discussed some things regarding the IT situation. and
00:16:19
you know the the use of the family computer. Um so they thought that somebody with knowledge in that
00:16:24
background could be good for the defense could also work out poorly for you and sway to the prosecution side.
00:16:32
>> The third juror was a 32-year-old Caucasian female. Um she was a volunteer at an alternative lifestyle camp. Um and
00:16:41
this this is a person that the jury really liked. Um even though she was >> the jury really liked you mean the
00:16:47
defense really liked? I apologize. The defense really liked this election because of her volunteering at this uh
00:16:54
at this camp uh that she might be somebody that was more understanding of young people or young adults uh and have
00:17:02
have some mindset towards that. The fourth juror juror selected was a 54 year old African-American lady. Uh now
00:17:10
the thing I got to point out here is that the defense wanted to they wanted a mixed race jury. Mhm.
00:17:17
>> Uh the defense stated that African-Ameans have historically have been discriminated by law. Uh, so of
00:17:26
course they are less trusting of law enforcement and they wanted to kind of put they they they really wanted to put
00:17:34
a bunch of African-Americans on the jury because of their distrust of law enforcement and also that they they
00:17:42
believed that because it was a death penalty case that that could sway in their favor as well.
00:17:49
>> Well, I think we both we've talked about this before. We we both believe that
00:17:52
that you know looking back that that was probably a mistake you know by the prosecutors to or the state of Florida
00:17:59
to go after the death penalty. >> Yes. The fifth juror selected was a 71-year-old Caucasian woman uh retired.
00:18:09
Um and there was a couple things that the defense really liked about her. Because of her age, she didn't have any
00:18:15
young children. Uh, and the other thing was she didn't own a computer, nor had she ever owned a computer. So, this was
00:18:22
somebody that they knew right away might not have been privy to a lot of the information out there about Casey
00:18:29
against Casey. >> Uh, this is somebody that wouldn't be, you know, communicating with bloggers or
00:18:35
reading blogs about Casey. >> Juror number six was a 37year-old white Caucasian male. He was a chef.
00:18:44
>> Yeah. and he had several young children uh that lived at his home. So, this was
00:18:49
one that the prosecution uh really liked uh because of the fact of him having young kids. Um juror number seven is a
00:18:58
47year-old divorced Caucasian female. She was a youth counselor. Uh so, you could kind of lump her in the group with
00:19:05
the um the volunteer at the uh the camp, >> right? The summer camp. >> Mhm. Juror number eight, we have a
00:19:11
60-year-old Caucasian woman. Um, she is a service rep for a phone company. >> Uh, and juror number nine is a
00:19:20
53-year-old Caucasian male who is unemployed. >> Juror number 10, uh, 57year-old
00:19:27
Caucasian male. Now, he too was a ser service rep for a phone company. And this is the same phone company as juror
00:19:37
number eight, which was of major concern to both the prosecutor and the defense.
00:19:43
Uh the fear being here that the two knew each other. Uh but it was very quickly established that they did not. Juror
00:19:52
number 11 was a 30-year-old Caucasian uh male gym teacher at a high school. Uh apparently this guy was pretty
00:20:01
goodlooking. Um, >> okay. >> Yeah. This is not the defense or the prosecutor stating that this man is is
00:20:09
handsome. >> This is your statements. >> This is my statement. This was one goodlook juror.
00:20:14
>> He was he was one handsome man. >> Wink wink. Um, no, but the thing here is the the reason why I say he must be
00:20:21
pretty good-looking is because some of the media would refer to him as instead of juror number 11, they would refer to
00:20:28
him as George Clooney. So, I get anytime you get compared to that guy, right? >> Mhm.
00:20:33
>> Everybody wants to be compared to that guy. >> I've never I've never been compared to
00:20:37
that guy. >> It's not happening for me either. Juror number 12 is a 61-year-old Caucasian
00:20:42
female and she worked at a Publix grocery store. Um, you know, we see some wins as far as the prosecution's
00:20:51
concerned and and some wins as far as the defense is concerned, but those are their kind of general thoughts on the
00:20:57
jury that was selected for this trial. Now, you know that both the prosecution and the defense, they get a good
00:21:03
opportunity to vet these people before they are chosen to be on the jury. And according to questioning, it appeared
00:21:11
that out of the 12 jurors chose chosen that only one was considered to be pro-death penalty. Uh May 24th, 2011,
00:21:22
the trial begins in Orlando, Florida. The prosecution states after Casey's parents left the house on June 16th,
00:21:30
2008. >> Wait, hold on. I'm just trying to follow you. You We're We're now to opening
00:21:34
statements. We Yes, we are now at the opening statement of of the big trial. Some are calling it the trial of the
00:21:40
century, the trial against the most hated woman in America. >> And the troll trial.
00:21:45
>> Yes. The prosecution states that Casey's parents left the house on June 16th,
00:21:51
2008. Casey returned to the home with Kaye. At this time, >> using chloroform, Casey knocked the kid
00:21:59
out and placed duct tape over the mouth and nose of the child. the baby, >> suffocating her.
00:22:05
>> Mhm. >> She then bundled the little girl's body up in trash bags and a laundry bag,
00:22:11
placed them in the trunk of the vehicle she was driving, and left the home. That
00:22:16
evening, she went on a date with her boyfriend, going to the Blockbuster video store to rent some movies,
00:22:22
>> like we talked about last episode. Then sometime before her vehicle was towed
00:22:26
from the parking lot, Casey Anthony dumped the body in a wooded area just several feet from Suburban Road about
00:22:34
one quarter of a mile from the Anthony home. During the prosecution's opening statement, they made these claims and
00:22:40
they went on to go through each of the events that took place in the 31 days that expired between the time Kaye went
00:22:47
missing and the time that she was reported as such. Needless to say, it was a rather lengthy opening statement.
00:22:56
The defense states that Kaye never was missing. Kaylee Anthony died June 16th, 2008 when she drowned in her family's
00:23:06
swimming pool. Defense attorney Joseé Bayz says to the jury that the Anthony family is extremely dysfunctional and
00:23:14
that Joseé Bayz wanted to take the jury into the Anthony home on Hope Spring Drive, stating that Casey was out
00:23:22
partying and having fun during the days that Kaye was unaccounted for because she was hiding in that deep, dark place
00:23:28
called denial, a place that she had hid most of her life. The defense told the jury that Casey was a good mother, that
00:23:38
Kaye was never abused and was never without food, without clothing, or without shelter, stating that the jury
00:23:46
would not hear one person testify about Kaye being abused or mistreated by Casey. And Bayas is going to claim that,
00:23:54
you know, this whole family is just about lies and secrets. And this is going to start way back when Casey was
00:24:01
just 8 years old. >> Yes. The lies and secrets are all wrapped in this case. And it started
00:24:07
when she's 8 years old when her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately. And it escalated
00:24:14
and escalated. It started with fondling and then led to intercourse. He stated that George was having sex with Casey
00:24:23
several times a week until she was 12 years old. Bias suspected that George either stopped at this time because she
00:24:30
was getting either too old for his taste or the threat of the young girl getting
00:24:36
pregnant. And then when Casey was older, her older brother Lee then inherited the
00:24:42
traits of his father. And Lee began sneaking into Casey's room at night and fondling her. This started with with Lee
00:24:50
when Casey was 15 years old. And these were all secrets that Casey kept that she hid. And this is why she is a liar.
00:25:00
She had to learn to lie to hide the family secret. Pointing out further how dysfunctional the Anthony family is.
00:25:07
Bayas brought up a wedding attended by the Anthony family when Casey was 7 months pregnant and and showing it too.
00:25:15
She's showing the pregnancy. The whole family attended this wedding. And when when Cindy's brother asked her, "Well,
00:25:22
isn't there something you would like to tell me about my niece?" Cindy asked, "What?" And her her brother says, "Well,
00:25:28
she's clearly pregnant." Cindy and George denied the pregnancy. Explaining Casey was just overweight. Bayz pointed
00:25:37
out that the parents hid the pregnancy and that if they hid this child in life, they would certainly hide this child in
00:25:44
death, stating they hid this child like a flower in the attict. >> So, what were the defense's claims to
00:25:51
the accounts of death? Yeah, that's one thing that I found very interesting was that Bayz went on to explain to the jury
00:25:57
how Kaye had died, >> stating that on the morning of June 16th, Cindy woke Casey and Kaye before
00:26:05
she left for work around 7:00 a.m. saying goodbye to them in their bed. Then the two went back to sleep.
00:26:13
Sometime later, George woke Casey up, this is estimated to be several hours later, and started yelling at her. you
00:26:21
know, where's where's Kaye? Where's Kaye? And the two of them went and searched the house. They searched the
00:26:28
closets. They searched under the beds and in the garage, then the backyard. And then, noticing the pool ladder to
00:26:35
the family's above ground pool was still up. He told the jury how George held Kayle's lifeless body and yelled at
00:26:42
Casey as Casey cried, telling Casey that her mother would never forgive her for this and that she was going to go to
00:26:49
prison for the rest of her life for child neglect. >> The other thing he kind of brings up,
00:26:55
uh, which is, you know, smart on his part is he says, "Well, look, here's another thing that's a problem with the
00:27:00
prosecution's um, claims is they don't really know how the baby died. We don't know how Kaye died. So therefore, how
00:27:09
can you charge somebody with murder and on top of that go after the death penalty when you don't know exactly how
00:27:17
she died? >> Yeah. And I think that I mean that had to have been a smart thing to do. You
00:27:22
know, they don't know the cause of death. And he's stating this right out of the gate and he's letting you know
00:27:27
that you know what, you're going to hear this from the prosecution side later. What I'm telling you now, they're going
00:27:32
to back it up that they don't have the cause of death. So, how can we charge anybody with murder? We'll get right
00:27:37
back to the trial of Casey Anthony right after this quick beer break. All right, cheers mates. Back to the
00:27:56
troll trials. >> Now, we have a lengthy trial to cover here, Captain, and we can't go through
00:28:02
every detail of such. There were a lot of people that were called to testify and if we did so this this show we would
00:28:09
basically have to do a show that was the length of the trial and we're here to just kind of point out the important
00:28:15
parts as we see them as well as maybe some you know peaks and valleys that took place during the course of the
00:28:20
trial. So we're going to kind of pick um some key players, some key characters that were involved in this trial and
00:28:27
we'll kind of give an overview of what took place of of the statements that they made and testified to. So, the
00:28:33
first witness that is called by the prosecution is George Anthony. Now, under oath, he would state that he never
00:28:42
sexually abused his daughter Casey. He's going to state that he had no knowledge
00:28:48
of the death of Kaye or did he cover up the death of Kaye in any way. Also under
00:28:54
testifi while testifying, he will state that he as well as the tow truck manager
00:29:00
both agreed that from their experiences that they did smell what they consider to be human decomposition coming from
00:29:08
Casey's car before George drove it home. >> All right. Right. So, exactly when they
00:29:13
go to uh pick up the car from it being in town, they both smell the same thing. >> Yes. And this would be in July. Now,
00:29:22
under cross-examination, George Anthony is going to state that he did not smell decomposition in Casey's
00:29:29
car on June 24th, 2008. Now, this is when he would have seen the vehicle back at his home before it was ever towed.
00:29:37
And >> just to be clear, he was not actually in this vehicle. He was just feet away from
00:29:43
the vehicle on the 24th. The other thing that he would state too, remember Casey
00:29:49
returned gas cans to him that were stolen from his shed that she stole from the shed. Now, he would state that he
00:29:56
did put duct tape over one of those cans after she had returned them to him. >> He also testified that he had bought a
00:30:04
gun to threaten Casey's friends into telling him where Kaye was, even though he knew that having a gun violated
00:30:11
Casey's bail. Now, the thing here is George believed that when they could not find Kaye that that not only Casey may
00:30:21
have known where she was, but her friends, the people that she was shacking up with during this 30-day time
00:30:27
period, that they would know more about the Kaye situation than her than he and Cindy knew. And he thought he was going
00:30:35
to have to go and talk to these people and ask the hard questions. >> Often thought this would make an amazing
00:30:41
show. Mhm. Right. So, what you do is you maybe you dress up like clowns. I don't
00:30:46
know what you you cuz clowns are creepy. And you get some guns and some torturing
00:30:51
devices and you and these cases that aren't solved that you really want solved. You find these individuals and
00:30:58
you torture them till till they tell you. >> All right. Well, >> I think it'd be a good show.
00:31:04
>> It it might work. We I'm not I'm not putting my stamp on that. a uh discovery. Call me.
00:31:11
>> That's right. Call him. Um Jose Bayz then asked George Anthony about his suicide attempt which took place in
00:31:18
January of 2009. And the next day, the judge allows the jury to see the suicide note. Now, this is one thing that we are
00:31:27
yet to cover in this case. Uh George Anthony did have a suicide attempt. This took place January 23rd, 2009.
00:31:36
The the basics of it are this that George decides to check himself into a hotel. He takes about 70 pills and he
00:31:45
drinks as much alcohol as he can in attempt to take his and end his own life. Uh while there he was texting
00:31:54
family members and calling some of them uh and he did in fact leave that suicide
00:31:59
note which the judge allows the jury to read. I think this is important evidence
00:32:04
for the prosecution because the defense is trying to paint a picture here that, you know, well, look, the how she died
00:32:12
was that that that George found Kaye in the pool. >> Mhm. >> And what the prosecution is going to
00:32:19
claim is based off the evidence in the suicide note, it proves that George wasn't involved and he had no knowledge
00:32:27
of what was going on. So, do you want to read that note? Well, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, isn't it? Because I
00:32:32
think I think at the time the the defense is trying to state that, you know, this might show that there was a
00:32:39
lot more going on with George. And but I think you're right. It the prosecution as well, they're they're like, yeah,
00:32:45
this also kind of shows he's innocent. Regardless, it's full of emotion. And the the suicide note that the jury was
00:32:52
allowed to read is as follows. It says, "Cynthany Marie, as you get this letter,
00:32:59
this should be no surprise that I have decided to leave this earth because I need to be with Kaye Marie. I cannot
00:33:06
keep going because it should be me that is gone from this earth, not her. I have
00:33:11
lived many years. I am satisfied with my decision because I have never been the man you, Lee, Casey, and especially
00:33:20
Kaylee Marie deserved. I have never been the man any of you could count on. I have always let each of you down in more
00:33:28
ways than I can remember. I do not feel sorry for myself. I am just sorry I burden all of you the way I have. My
00:33:37
loss of life is meaningless. Cynthia Marie, you have always worked your hardest, given the most to me, and I
00:33:45
have never thanked you. 28 plus years ago, you corrected me. a man who has now found his identity in life. What I mean
00:33:55
is you always challenged me the right way and I always could never live up to your expectations. You have always been
00:34:02
smarter, more knowledgeable and thought things through and I love you for that. I cannot be strong anymore. Kaylee
00:34:11
Marie, our granddaughter, I miss her. I miss her so much. I know you do, too. You were always the one that provided
00:34:19
for her. What did I provide? I blamed myself for her being gone. You know, for months, as a matter of fact, for a year
00:34:28
or so, I brought stuff up only to be told not to be negative. Kaye Marie, I miss her. I miss her. I want my family
00:34:38
back. I sit here falling apart because I should have done more. She was so close
00:34:45
to home. Why was she there? Who placed her there? Why is she gone? For months, you and I, especially you, always
00:34:54
question why? I want this to go away for Casey. What happened? Why could she not
00:35:01
come to us? Especially you. Or why not Lee? Who is involved with this stuff with Kaye? I'm going crazy because I
00:35:10
want to go after these people Casey hung with prior to Kaye being gone. That is why I got that gun. I wanted to scare
00:35:20
these people. You know, they know more than they have stated. You cannot sugarcoat kid glove these people. They
00:35:28
need hard knocks to get info from. Sure, that will not bring Kaye Marie back, but
00:35:34
was Casey threatened? You know, Casey does not deserve to be where she is. I miss her. I miss her so much. I am
00:35:43
worried for her. Her personal safety is always on my mind. I try to deal with so
00:35:49
so much as I do you also. I have never wanted to my family for sorrow in any way. I realize families have ups and
00:35:59
downs, but we have suffered our share and then some. Cynthia Marie, you have always deserved more. And with me being
00:36:07
gone, you will. I have always brought you down. You know that. You are better off. Lee will be there for you. I cannot
00:36:16
function knowing our granddaughter is gone. Kaylee Marie never had a chance to grow. I wanted to walk her to school. I
00:36:24
wanted to help her in so many ways. I sit here empty inside for her, for you, for us. Yes, you deserve more and you
00:36:33
will have freedom to enjoy what you deserve. I have taken what meds was given to me with alcohol and I'm ready
00:36:40
to give up. As I can tell by my writing and thinking, I am getting very stupid. Wow, what a word. Stupid. Yes, I am.
00:36:50
Again, I do not feel sorry for myself. I am stupid. I cannot deal with stuff anymore. The loss of Kaylee Marie, the
00:36:59
loss of Casey, the loss of us, Cynthia Marie, the meds. I am ready. Saying goodbyes. Please understand it is for
00:37:08
the best. I do not deserve life anymore. You are the best. You always have been.
00:37:14
I am sorry for all that I have done to us. I love you. I hope you get to see Casey soon. I am sorry. I will take care
00:37:21
of Kaye once I get to God hopefully. I want to hold her again. I miss her. I will always love us. I am sorry. Cynthia
00:37:30
Marie, I am so tired. I am sorry. I love you, Cynthia Marie. Kaye, here I come. Lee, I am sorry. And like I've stated
00:37:40
from the beginning, um, George was more of her father, you know, Kayle's father than he was the grandfather
00:37:48
>> because she didn't have a father figure. So, I I would assume that that's how
00:37:53
Kaye saw him. And so I think this was a pretty crushing blow to him. I think this points to the idea that he didn't
00:38:02
know what happened. So the defense's argument that Kaye drowned and that George helped Casey cover this up, I
00:38:11
think is a lot of malarkey. >> Yeah. And I to be honest with you, Captain, I don't know which side of the
00:38:17
fence was pushing for the suicide note to be viewed by the jury. I think what the defense was trying to do, I don't
00:38:25
think they were trying to accuse him of murder. Obviously, they never state at any point during the trial that they
00:38:30
believe he killed the girl, >> right? >> But I think what the defense was trying
00:38:34
to do was bring up this suicide attempt by pointing out pointing out that George
00:38:39
may have, you know, because of this suicide, maybe he did have more involvement. Maybe he had more on his
00:38:45
chest than we know about. Mhm. Well, I think they brought I think they brought up the idea of suicide and then I think
00:38:51
the prosecution is the one saying, "Hey, look, if you're going to bring this up,
00:38:55
that's fine, but that's then we're going to look at this note." And by the context of the note, it points to the
00:39:03
fact that he didn't know anything about it. >> And I Yeah, I agree 100%. >> It would be totally different if he
00:39:08
said, "I can't live with myself for what I've done." But it didn't say that. He said, "I got a gun and I wanted to get
00:39:15
answers." >> Mhm. You know, and I and these people know more. The thing that constantly
00:39:21
rings constantly with this family is the enabling and and parents never want their children to fail. They never want
00:39:30
them to hit rock bottom. And most of the time, people know that if somebody's going through some crap in their life,
00:39:36
they have to hit rock bottom. But if you have parents or friends that keep enabling you and keep bringing you to
00:39:42
the surface, you never hit rock bottom. And I think that's what happened constantly with this family. Again, even
00:39:47
in this note, even at the time of his, you know, wanting to take his own life to be with his granddaughter, he keeps
00:39:54
on saying, "My daughter doesn't deserve to be where she's at." >> Mhm. >> Uh yeah, she does.
00:40:02
>> Yeah. But that's the parent in him speaking. And I And I think what you hear in that suicide note,
00:40:08
>> right, but some parents are more enablers than others. >> Yeah. And I think I think what you hear
00:40:13
in that suicide note, you're exactly right. I think the it it totally if you if anybody on the jury had any
00:40:21
speculation that the suicide attempt would help further the defense's case if if you would believe that George knew
00:40:30
then what what you were talking about. I think the suicide note clears that up really quickly and it it it washes that
00:40:36
all away for me because in that note, yes, he's talking about mainly about his shortcomings and things that the family
00:40:44
deserved better and he didn't give enough and didn't do enough, but he never says that he's guilty of anything
00:40:50
other than maybe he could have been a better parent or a better husband at times. And I think these are all
00:40:55
thoughts that whether we're having good days or bad days, I think we all have those thoughts in in the back of our
00:41:01
minds from time to time that we could be better parents, we could be better spouses, we could be better brothers or
00:41:07
sisters or or or children uh to our parents. You know, we you always have those feelings inside of you. And the
00:41:14
certainly there's no there's no words of guilt in my mind in that suicide note. >> You do the best you can as a parent. you
00:41:22
try to provide at the end of the day, you just can all you can do is try your best. Um, you know, tough thing, but
00:41:29
then so then next they're going to start bringing up character witnesses for Casey Anthony.
00:41:35
>> Yeah, they're going to call a lot of Casey's friends to the stand. Um, and we're not going to go through them
00:41:40
individually, but the the basic summary of what they're all kind of saying is that all of them had heard Casey at one
00:41:49
point or several points tell them lies about Casey having a job during that June and July of 2008,
00:41:57
>> the 30 days basically. >> Yep. About uh the nanny, you know, that Kaye had a nanny. Um, these were all
00:42:03
lies that she didn't just tell to her family, she was telling them to the friends as well. Uh there were some that
00:42:09
kind of stood out from from amongst the group there. One would be Amy. Remember her friend Amy? The one that she uh
00:42:17
>> stole money from? >> Yeah. She stole the checks from her. Now Amy would state that she received a text
00:42:24
from Casey on June 27th stating that Casey had a dead animal that she had hit with the vehicle and that was kind of
00:42:33
wedged up in the the frame of her car. Um, and that's all the further explanation she gives regarding this,
00:42:41
maybe pointing out why there might be some kind of foul smell coming from the vehicle.
00:42:46
>> Mhm. >> Um, another one of importance is a former boyfriend testifies that Casey
00:42:53
told him that uh, Casey's brother, Lee Anthony, had sexually groped her at one point in her life. Um, Judge Perry does
00:43:02
not allow um the the jury to hear testimony from Casey's u ex-boyfriend stating this um that that that he had
00:43:12
tried to grope her. >> And a witness that I thought was really interesting was the neighbor. The
00:43:16
neighbor came forward and said that in mid June that uh Casey came over with her boyfriend and asked to borrow a
00:43:23
shovel because she wanted to dig up a bamboo route. >> Yeah. And there some interesting things
00:43:29
here. Um, you know, he couldn't give a date on that, but he did say it was sometime in mid June. Um, it didn't seem
00:43:36
of anything of great importance to him. So, why would he remember the exact date?
00:43:40
>> Uh, the thing here is, you know, there there's a great true crime author, Diane
00:43:44
Fanning, who who wrote a book very early in this case, actually before it went to
00:43:49
trial and shortly after she was arrested. Uh, Casey Anthony being arrested, not Diane Fanning. Uh, but
00:43:56
Diane gives her gives her kind of idea of what she thinks happened in this case. And one thing she states in there
00:44:04
is that she believed it was unbeknownst to her at the time that that Tony was with Casey when she went to borrow the
00:44:11
the shovel. And Diane speculated that maybe uh Casey had borrowed the shovel to to assist in disposing of the body
00:44:19
and that maybe the dogs, remember the dogs had gone the cadaavver dogs had smelled and hit on some points in the
00:44:26
backyard of the Anthony family home, >> right? >> And her thought was maybe Casey's
00:44:31
original thought was that she would bury the body in the backyard. We now know at
00:44:36
this time she was not alone on that day. She was with her boyfriend Tony. And he
00:44:40
would further testify that they actually borrowed the shovel to break into the shed where they were going to go steal
00:44:48
the the the gas cans. >> Now, they're going to start calling police officers and FBI agents. And the
00:44:53
first police officers that arrive at the Anony's household the day that they're going to report her missing, remember
00:44:59
those the 911 calls? >> Um they're going to claim that in the Pontiac they didn't actually smell any
00:45:06
deceased body, >> right? Right. They they didn't smell any human decomposition in Casey's car. They
00:45:11
also did admit that they did not search the other two vehicles that were on the property that night. Um a dog handler
00:45:19
that is called. He describes the dog alerting to human decomposition in the trunk of this vehicle as well as near
00:45:28
Kay's playhouse in the backyard. Now, and just since we're on this point, right,
00:45:34
>> they actually had a scientist that did this study or did this test basically he
00:45:40
created this test. Yes. >> And what they would do was they would take this sample and they would kind of
00:45:46
I think they would liquefy it and then turn it into a vapor >> and then somehow put that into a can,
00:45:52
whatever. Anyways, the test was to prove that there was a rotting body basically
00:45:59
>> in the trunk of the car. Yeah. >> Right. And so he he's done this test many times. He created the test.
00:46:07
>> He created the he created the contraption that that conducts the test. This is Dr. uh Voss.
00:46:14
>> Um and he you know he's got some big long word that describes this contraption that is going to conduct
00:46:20
this test. Uh but he does state that he found uh using this test signs of human decomposition and a high level of
00:46:28
chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car. >> So now we got two things pointing against Casey Anthony. Now Bayz the
00:46:35
defense attorney is going to do something pretty smart here. >> Mhm. >> He's going to state, well that's great
00:46:40
that you have this. It's scientific proof. Okay. It's not this is not an opinion, right? This is scientific
00:46:47
proof. And Bayz kind of shatters that by saying, "Well, you've never testified before."
00:46:53
>> Well, not only has he not testified, but also this method of of determining that
00:46:59
there was human decomposition in the trunk has never been used in any trial anywhere before.
00:47:04
>> Right. And I would also just like to make the statement that it has been several hundreds hundreds of times now
00:47:12
>> since this date, right? >> Uh yeah, Bayz would go on to claim that Dr. Voss had a uh financial
00:47:21
>> uh interest in this because if if he could get it into one trial, then this would be considered somewhat fact um and
00:47:29
it could be used all over the country and this was a device that he could then sell to law enforcement,
00:47:36
>> right? And a bunch of law enforcement use it now. >> But but that's because it's science.
00:47:41
Mhm. Well, an FBI forensic chemist uh confirms chloroform residue in the trunk of Casey's car, but also states that
00:47:50
household cleaning products leave traces of chloroform. Right. >> A professor of chemistry called by the
00:47:56
defense says that chemical compounds identified by Dr. Voss in air samples can be found in household products and
00:48:05
garbage as well. Um what ends up happening here is we get into this lengthy battle over is this test going
00:48:13
to be considered evidence or not. You know, you have the prosecution wants it to be evidence obviously and the defense
00:48:20
is going to try to poke as many holes in it as they possibly can. >> I found that this was one part of the
00:48:25
trial that got a little chippy, you know, where it seemed like the defense and the the prosecution were kind of
00:48:31
going at one another more than talking to the experts, right? Uh what ends up happening is that Judge Perry decides
00:48:39
because I don't I'm not clear on how they got to this point, but this is how Chippy it got. Judge Perry decides that
00:48:45
he is not going to allow the jury to sniff air samples that were taken from the car trunk. From the trunk of the
00:48:52
car? >> Yeah, they they don't need to do that. >> Yeah. Here. Here, smell this. >> Don't be one of those people. Oh my god,
00:48:59
this salad tastes so bad. Try it. No. Well, while actually while we're on the trunk of the car, let's talk about
00:49:07
the single hair that was removed from the the trunk of the vehicle. >> Uh, and this was similar to the hair uh
00:49:14
from Kayle's hairbrush, and it had what what they call is root banding, and it was consistent with that from a
00:49:21
decomposing body. Uh, that's what I'm calling the death band on that hair. Uh the thing here is, you know, this is
00:49:29
something that they are, again, it's kind of like the the smell coming from the trunk. They have some proof of this,
00:49:38
but the defense is pretty quick to poke some holes in this as well because there
00:49:41
were other hairs that they found. You're a mother of a the child. Child's in your
00:49:46
car. There's hairs everywhere. Yeah. Right. >> So, so that's fine and and that's going
00:49:52
to be easy for the defense to poke holes in. But the fact that there's this band
00:49:57
is what's way more interesting to me. >> Yeah, they were able to get somebody, the defense was able to get someone to
00:50:03
testify that that finding that on that hair could also just mean that it sat in the trunk of the car for an extended
00:50:11
period of time, >> right? Which you would think that like if you're getting groceries in and out
00:50:16
of a car, a hair could fall off of her. >> You know, it's pretty easy to explain.
00:50:21
>> Another thing that was brought up, uh, we've brought up the duct tape already.
00:50:24
Well, crime scene investigators identified a piece of Hinkle brand duct tape uh found at the the scene and
00:50:33
testified that it is the same brand as George Anthony put on the red gas can. Uh one investigator states that no
00:50:41
Hinkle brand tape was found elsewhere in the Anony's home. Now, FBI, they did test on on this duct tape that was found
00:50:49
on Kayle's body, and they could not find any fingerprints on this duct tape. They
00:50:55
didn't find Casey's fingerprints. They didn't find George Anony's fingerprints. But the the other thing here is uh they
00:51:02
also didn't find any DNA. Now, now the thing that I would argue here that this does not point to anybody being innocent
00:51:10
in my mind, whether whether you want to fight for Casey or whether you want to fight for George, it doesn't point to
00:51:15
either of them being innocent that no DNA was found because they didn't find any DNA of Kaye. It was on her. The the
00:51:24
body was so far decomposed. And on top of that, duct tape has has certain natural fibers that are in it as well.
00:51:31
and from from it sitting out for 6 months in the heat and that area had flooded at one point and in you know in
00:51:39
the rain and all the elements any trace of DNA was removed from the duct tape. Furthermore, any of those natural fibers
00:51:46
had basically disintegrated by this point by the time that they found Kayle's body.
00:51:51
>> So they have the duct tape, right? And then we know that that's connected to the an Anthony household.
00:51:57
>> It's the same brand. Yes. And then we have this laundry basket. >> Yeah. Long laundry bag.
00:52:03
>> Okay. So, this laundry bag, they're sold in pairs. The other pair is found at the
00:52:08
Anthony household. >> Yes. The the this is actually a pretty common bag. It's something you could buy
00:52:12
at any grocery store, but like the captain said, it's sold in like a two or threeack. And they found the other ones
00:52:18
at the home. >> Uh Kaylee Anony's whole bedroom is decorated in Winnie the Pooh stuff. And
00:52:23
they found a Winnie the Pooh blanket >> at the scene. now. So, you know, >> Yeah. Well, and what they're going to
00:52:32
point out there is that, you know, in the beginning, Casey was stating that this was well, not a stranger abduction,
00:52:39
that it was a nanny abduction. >> Annie the nanny. >> Yeah. And the prosecution here is
00:52:44
pointing out that look, sorry, but every item that was found where Kaye was found
00:52:50
>> was found in the Anthony home. This body was transferred from the Anthony home.
00:52:55
>> Right. basically saying everything that comes out of this girl's mouth is horseshit.
00:53:00
>> And it's not even just the zany the nanny thing. Then it became this whole well it's somebody else and there's this
00:53:05
whole sex ring and it's sex trafficking and all this crazy nonsense >> that Casey kept on throwing out. Uh and
00:53:14
that was just to get people talking about something other than her. >> Yeah. Well, it's at this point in the
00:53:19
trial that, you know, while they're talking about the duct tape, the investigators, they show photographs of
00:53:24
the remains of Kaye. And some of these photos show that the duct tape appears to be over the mouth area. Now, one
00:53:32
investig investigator does admit that the duct tape might not have originally been on the mouth and could have shifted
00:53:39
position as he collected the remains. Uh, at this point in the trial, Casey Anthony becomes ill looking at the
00:53:46
photographs and the jury is dismissed for the day. The prosecution also brought into the trial some video
00:53:53
footage. Now, we talked about this. This is all video that we've seen on CNN, Fox
00:53:59
News, >> Nancy Grace, >> Nancy Grace, all everybody that was covering the trial.
00:54:03
>> Top mom. This was video footage showing Casey Anthony yelling at her parents while she's in jail, lying to her
00:54:10
parents while she's in jail. And in >> but the interesting thing here, Captain, is there is video footage of her denying
00:54:17
to an officer on July 16th, 2008 that Kaye had drowned in the pool as the officer had suggested to her.
00:54:27
>> Right >> now, you would think, right, that this would be a big home run for the
00:54:32
prosecution, right? First, we have this woman, Casey Anthony, that nobody likes anyway. And now we are showing you video
00:54:38
footage of her lying to her parents, >> right? Uh, but what ends up happening is
00:54:43
this actually only ends up being what I would consider to be a small victory for
00:54:47
the prosecution because they end up showing the jury two tapes and both of the tapes are very long, extremely long,
00:54:55
where we're only actually showing small parts of herself, of Casey making herself look very bad in a very short
00:55:02
period. And one thing that we know is one of the worst things you can do in a trial is to bore the jury. you know,
00:55:10
they they lose interest. They lose focus of what's important at that moment if you drag things out too long.
00:55:17
>> Our listeners are saying the same thing about the show. >> Here, smell this. >> Hey, come here. People say, "Have you
00:55:24
seen those videootapes of her in prison? Oh man, she's the worst person ever." It's very small fragments where she is
00:55:30
the worst person ever. But she is the worst person ever. But I I think it's a huge home run and the jury just didn't
00:55:36
catch on to that. Your defense came from this police officer. >> Your defense came from, well, what makes
00:55:44
the most logical sense? Oh, she drowned in the pool. This is how we're going to defend you. But you already denied that
00:55:52
before. And that's going to be your argument. If I'm on the jury, I'm going, "This troll is lying about everything.
00:55:59
The EV all the evidence points to her having knowledge. All the evidence points to her lying about everything.
00:56:06
And then on top of that, her defense is something she already denied. >> Yeah. And you know what, Captain? Here's
00:56:14
where I think that they made a quite a big stumble. The prosecution that is one, not only showing the the lengthy
00:56:20
tapes, but you know what I would have done? Just that little clip of her denying it to the officer. You got to
00:56:26
pull like that JFK moment, you know, from Oliver Stone's great movie >> back into the left.
00:56:31
>> Back into the left. >> Back into the left. You just keep showing that part of the tape over and
00:56:37
over and over again rather than showing them almost I think they spent >> back into
00:56:42
>> most of the day reviewing these two tapes. It was extremely long and I think you could have really just honed in on a
00:56:49
few points and really hit the home run a grand slam even with that back into the
00:56:55
left of showing her denying that to the >> officer. I probably would have play it a
00:56:58
hundred times, right? >> Yeah, >> just play it a hundred times. Uh, you sure didn't drown in the pool? Nope.
00:57:05
Sure she didn't drown in the pool? Nope. Just keep playing it over and over. >> Yeah. So, we have we have the medical
00:57:12
examiner and I and we're not going to go through all of that because we we know that they said that this was a homicide
00:57:18
and we know that the defense is saying, "Well, you can't you can't say that because you can't give us a cause of
00:57:25
death." They ruled it a homicide because of the duct tape, because the body was hidden, because nobody reported her
00:57:30
missing. You know, those are the reasons for doing so. But an expert that was called in, this is an expert in forensic
00:57:37
entomology, uh, states that he found flies related to decomposition in the trunk of Casey's car. Now, the defense
00:57:46
is going to call their own expert, uh, that that is an expert in the same field. And this expert will state that
00:57:53
there was if there was a body in the trunk, uh they should have found hundreds or thousands of these blow
00:58:01
flies trapped in the trunk. So where one expert says we found we found flies, uh
00:58:07
I I think it was like one or two, you know, maybe two or three flies and the defense is saying that you should have
00:58:14
found hundreds or or thousands of them. >> Let's be clear, though, that was all cleaned out when they got the car,
00:58:20
>> right? They pulled stuff from the trunk initially. They all smelled a bad smell
00:58:25
and they threw away trash that that uh the mother claims there was maggots all over.
00:58:32
>> Maggots and flies and all that stuff. So there's your hundreds of flies that were
00:58:36
thrown out as evidence. Well, but also the defense is going to claim that with this expert that these the the flies
00:58:44
that they found that they're saying are related to a decomposing body are the same that you would expect to find in
00:58:51
rotting trash as well. >> Okay. >> Uh now we talked about the computer activity on the Anony's home computer.
00:58:58
Uh so they're going to call the state and the defense are both going to call several software analysts. Um and one
00:59:06
will state that someone used the Anthony computer to search a website. This is sesspot.com for chloroform 84 times on
00:59:15
March 21st, 2008. Uh during 84 times >> 84 times. That's a lot of research. During cross-examination, this expert
00:59:23
admits that the automatic page reloading could account for that number and there
00:59:30
was no way of knowing how many times chloroform was actually searched. >> Uh, and furthermore, they could not
00:59:37
state who or they could not know who was the person performing the searches on the
00:59:43
computer at that time. Um, >> but here's what's interesting. >> Go for it. >> Is that there is only two adults in the
00:59:51
household at this time. So, we have George or Casey. That is by all evidence the only two adults that could have been
01:00:01
in the household at the time. Now, the defense is going to call Casey's mother and she's going to come to the stand and
01:00:08
she's going to testify, "I made that search." >> Right? And then the prosecution is going
01:00:14
to come back and go, "Hey, crazy. You were at work, right? Everything states that you're at work."
01:00:23
>> Yeah. >> There's time cards to prove. So, there's co-workers stating that you were there.
01:00:27
>> You were there. >> And she still lies. No, that was me because I was looking up this thing. Uh,
01:00:33
because the bamboo, you have to kill certain things of the bamboo. And I and and I misspelled it and it this came up
01:00:40
and I clicked on it. >> Yeah. If you type in the first few letters of what you're searching for,
01:00:44
some a more popular search might be the first that appears and you click on that.
01:00:49
>> Where the prosecution dropped the ball and what the defense was ready for >> was this other search, death by
01:00:56
suffocation, >> right? >> And the for some reason during the trial, the the the prosecution never
01:01:03
brought this up. >> No, they spent most of the time trying to prove that Cindy uh was not the one
01:01:08
that searched for chloroform. >> Right. And what what they're also able to confirm is that a a search for
01:01:15
chloroform on the Anthony computer uh took place not only on March 21st, but uh there was also how to make chloroform
01:01:23
on March 17th, 2008. So we have two different searches here. Um, the defense is also going to claim that Casey didn't
01:01:32
know what chloroform was and that she had searched for chloroform because it was something she had seen on her, was
01:01:38
it her boyfriend or her ex-boyfriend at the time, his MySpace or Facebook page that he had some kind of post that said,
01:01:45
"Win her over with chloroform." It was supposed to be some kind of joke where you see a
01:01:49
>> some really shitty joke. >> Good job. You just made a shitty joke on MySpace. a well-dressed man standing
01:01:55
behind a well-dressed woman saying win win her over with chloroform and that the search was simply for she didn't
01:02:01
know what it was and wanted to look it up and figure out why that post was so funny. Um it
01:02:06
>> which that look that explains the one but because the prosecution didn't bring
01:02:10
up death by suffocation then you know >> they they dropped the ball there big time. Big time. While we're talking
01:02:17
about the investigators, let's talk about a lead detective that uh testified during the trial. And he stated that
01:02:24
there were no phone calls between Cindy and George Anthony during the week of June 16th, 2008. But he went on to admit
01:02:33
that he was not aware that George Anthony had a second cell phone. >> Now, Cindy will be called to the stand
01:02:40
to testify. >> Yes. and she will testify that uh she swam with Kaye the night before she was
01:02:47
last seen in the family's above ground swimming pool. And she also would testify that Kaye could get up the
01:02:54
ladder into the pool by herself. Uh she also believed that Casey worked at Universal Studios in Orlando uh and
01:03:03
believed that there was a babysitter named Zan Zany. M >> uh Cindy Anthony says that her
01:03:09
description of Casey's car smelling like someone had died or like something had died in the damn car.
01:03:16
>> Right. And that's what we heard on the 911 call. >> Mhm. On the stand. She says that that
01:03:20
was just simply a figure of speech >> uh that she she ultimately ended up trying to get rid of the smell by
01:03:27
spraying Fbreze all within the car and inside the trunk as well. Uh she says that on the evening of June 16th when
01:03:37
she came home from work that she did find the pool ladder in the pool. You know, so it was attached to the pool so
01:03:44
somebody could get into the pool with that ladder being up. And she also stated that Kaye did have the ability
01:03:51
and had witnessed it on more than one occasion of opening up the sliding back door to the home to get out to the pool
01:03:58
by herself. Well, you know, she can't open that if it's locked, >> right? Right. She couldn't or she
01:04:05
couldn't climb the ladder if it was not up, >> right? >> She also stated in her testimony that
01:04:10
she definitely recalls the ladder being up on the night of the 16th because she remembers having a conversation with
01:04:17
George about that ladder being up, stating that it should not have been up uh because after swimming with Kaye the
01:04:25
night before that she had remembered taking the ladder down. So, she had this conversation with him about why the
01:04:31
latter would be up to the pool. Um, at some point during the trial, the defense then shows a a picture to the jury. Uh,
01:04:40
and after hearing Cindy's comments, uh, this is a pretty powerful picture because this is a picture of of young
01:04:47
Kaye opening the sliding glass door at the home. >> Um, it clearly showing that she was able
01:04:54
to do so. Now, in the picture, this is kind of a famous picture, so I shouldn't have to describe it too much. You cannot
01:04:59
actually see Kayle's face, but you kind of see what appears that she may have run into the room. You see the back of
01:05:05
her little body with her hair, and her arm is reaching up and her hand has has opening the sliding glass door.
01:05:12
>> And like you stated before, she is going to, you know, make the claims that she
01:05:16
did the Google searches. >> Yeah. >> And that's just false. And I think a lot of her testimony is just false. And I
01:05:24
think she's a liar. And I also think she's somebody that doesn't want to believe that her child is capable of uh
01:05:33
murdering her granddaughter. >> Mhm. >> And I think at this point, and I think we talked about this a while back
01:05:42
though, um is the idea that she already lost her granddaughter. >> Mhm. >> And she can't do anything about that.
01:05:52
And one of the reasons why I think the prosecution shouldn't have went for the death
01:05:57
penalty is that by doing so, you're going to put both of her parents in a defensive mode.
01:06:04
>> Mhm. >> Because they need to defend her at least through the trial. Right. >> Right.
01:06:11
>> And and Casey's mother states, >> well, maybe not to the point that she doesn't receive prison time, but you
01:06:16
know, because there there was firstdegree murder charge and a manslaughter charge. Maybe the maybe
01:06:22
Cindy's thoughts were, "Okay, I could see maybe Casey was, you know, guilty of some type of manslaughter charge, but
01:06:30
not that of a first-degree murder." >> Right? Here's the problem with it. She made this statement saying, "Oh, well,
01:06:37
you know, I prayed to God and I prayed and I prayed, you know, to spare my daughter's life." Or actually what she
01:06:46
stated was, "Give me an answer. >> If she is guilty of this, then find her guilty."
01:06:53
>> The problem with this, you hypocchristian, is that you lied on the stand. >> And if you didn't lie on the stand, then
01:07:02
then maybe she is found guilty, >> right? >> So you can't sit there and say, "Well,
01:07:09
you know, God gave me the answers." your lying forced some of those answers. >> Well, and I think in my opinion that uh
01:07:17
Cindy was the most >> interesting person to watch on the stand. And it was uh one cuz I didn't
01:07:24
know I never had a clue what she was going to say next, what her answer would be to the next question, right?
01:07:29
>> Um but the thing that was fascinating to me is, you know, the prosecution's made
01:07:34
up of a team. It's not just one person. And you know, they had they had a a you know, very bright group of people
01:07:39
working on this prosecution team. And but she would go toeto toe with every one of them. And she would get, you
01:07:45
know, she'd make her mean little face and she'd point at them from time to time and she would argue with them, you
01:07:52
know, she would dance with anybody on that prosecution team. >> Yeah, she is definitely a bright
01:07:56
individual. And any time that the prosecutors seemed unhappy with her answers or like they maybe they didn't
01:08:03
believe her, uh she was willing to argue it uh till the end of the day if she had
01:08:08
to. So, it was interesting to me to watch the interaction between her and the prosecutors when they necessarily
01:08:14
didn't agree with what she was saying. >> And I and I want to be clear, I feel for
01:08:18
this individual, right? >> Mhm. >> She lost her baby, you know. Yeah. her granddaughter, but her baby and then in
01:08:29
the process she's losing her daughter, >> right? >> I to I can't even imagine or to to begin
01:08:37
to tell you what I would do, but I have to It's really hard for me to lie because I physically get sick. For
01:08:46
example, I did well, I can't even say it. I was going to go to do 10 miles on my bike the other day, right?
01:08:54
>> Okay. Somebody text me and they said, "How many miles you get?" Well, I got 9.9,
01:09:00
>> right? >> Most people would just go 10. >> You look like you're physically getting
01:09:04
sick. >> Yeah, cuz I can't. But it's like, but some people just uh some people are just
01:09:11
honest people and and maybe she was lying. Look, if she's lying to protect her daughter, I feel for you. But at the
01:09:18
same time, there's no justice. There's no justice for that little baby. and and and that's something that you could have
01:09:26
gave to that little baby that you didn't. >> Well, there was also a big question
01:09:31
regarding uh another one of her actions and this would be that private investigators that worked for the
01:09:38
Anthony family. Now, I want to be clear on this. They did not work for Casey Anthony. They worked for George and
01:09:44
Cindy Anthony. Mhm. >> Uh there was a and I don't really understand what the defense was trying
01:09:50
to point out about this situation, but uh they were trying to prove that Cindy had sent the private investigators to
01:10:00
search the area where Kayle's body would later be found. Um maybe they were trying to point out that the that the
01:10:07
parents knew where the body would be. Uh that where the body would be found and that they wanted their investigators to
01:10:12
find the body. Um, obviously that didn't happen. >> Or maybe there was a tip. >> Yeah. And, um, Cindy would deny that on
01:10:20
stand. Uh, she said that she never sent the private investigators to that area to find to to look for Kayle's body. Um,
01:10:28
but >> even though that there was proof of that, right? >> Well, the the proof came with some other
01:10:33
people involved in the trial. First of all, you had um remember Melish, Detective Melish that we talked about?
01:10:40
He stated that he heard Cindy direct them to that area to to search that area. Uh we also have Lee Anthony, her
01:10:49
own son, says that under testified to this that he knew that his mother sent the investigators
01:10:58
to that area to search for Kaye. Um he states that she sent them to that area after she had spoken to a psychic. Um,
01:11:06
but again, she would deny this. And this is another part of the trial where you see them call Cindy for a little bit,
01:11:13
she gives her testimony, then they call these other people to kind of, you know,
01:11:16
uh, discredit that, and then they call Cindy again, and she sticks with what she had said. Now, uh,
01:11:23
>> on the stand though, Lee, the the other thing that I found interesting that he
01:11:26
had said as well, >> Lee would be the brother. >> Yes, that's Casey's older brother. Um,
01:11:31
Lee Anthony stated that he was not told that Casey was pregnant with Kaye until just days before Kayle's birth. So, that
01:11:38
kind of backs up the weird thing that the defense brought up with Cindy's brother, saying, you know, it was kind
01:11:44
of like the parents were trying to hide this this pregnancy. Um, you know, during even when Casey was seven and a
01:11:51
half months pregnant. Well, and again, this one of the things that I thought was funny about the Discovery ID
01:11:58
documentary was how she was saying, you know, oh, well, Casey was so excited to have this baby and she wanted this baby
01:12:06
and she was wanted to be a mother and we were all excited. >> Uh, that's not true. And then we have a
01:12:14
we have friends that came forward saying, "Oh, well, when she found out that she was pregnant, she really didn't
01:12:20
know who the father was. And then she was like, "I'm just going to have an abortion."
01:12:26
>> And then the mother talked her out of that. And probably the mother said, "Oh,
01:12:30
no. We'll be here for you." >> Mhm. >> And and we'll we'll we'll help you. And so you didn't know who the father was.
01:12:36
Then she lied to guys about who the father was and then they had to take tests and figure out, well, you're lying
01:12:43
to me. >> Well, there's no honor amongst thieves, right? And I know they're not thieves,
01:12:46
but but we're talking about a lot of people telling a lot of stories that just don't add up at the end of the day.
01:12:53
Uh, a couple things that took place with Casey during the trial. We talked about
01:12:58
her breaking down and, uh, during when they were showing the picture of pictures of the remains. Um, but some
01:13:04
other interesting tidbits was on June 25th, uh, Judge Belvin Perry Jr., he temporarily halts proceedings after the
01:13:11
defense makes a motion to determine if Casey was even competent to stand uh or to proceed with the trial. Uh 2 days
01:13:19
later, she is found competent and they carry on with the trial. This is after a psychological evaluation. Uh just a few
01:13:28
days after that, uh this is when Casey tells the judge that she does not want to testify on her own behalf. So, for
01:13:35
those of you that didn't keep track during the trial or didn't watch the trial, she actually never took the
01:13:40
stand. >> Now, the defense is going to call a witness named Crystal Holloway. >> Yes. And for me, this is like the
01:13:47
Matlock witness. Remember the old courtroom show drama Matlock? And once in a while they would, you know, not
01:13:55
every episode, but once in a while they'd pull some witness or person up to the stand and it was the witness that's
01:14:01
totally out of left field, somebody you didn't expect to hear from >> the whole episode. You never heard of
01:14:06
this person >> and then all of a sudden I everything becomes very clear. Well, I don't know
01:14:10
that this made anything more clear for me. But what it did do was this was the witness out of nowhere for me. I didn't
01:14:16
know who this person was. And when they started making these statements, I thought, "Wow, this is this is truly
01:14:24
truly a mystery here." Now, Crystal Holloway, she was actually a volunteer that that that volunteered during some
01:14:32
of these searches for Kaye. Um, and she was called to the stand because she well, according to her testimony, she
01:14:41
states that she had an affair with George Anthony. And she states that George Anthony during the course of
01:14:48
their relationship had told her that Kayle's death was simply an accident that snowballed out of control. Now,
01:14:56
under cross-examination, she also agreed uh with her earlier statement to police,
01:15:02
which she said George Anthony did not say that he knew it was an accident. Uh which is pretty confusing in itself. Uh
01:15:11
but the thing we have here, okay, um Judge Perry ends up telling the jurors that Crystal Holloway's testimony could
01:15:20
it could be used to impeach George Anony's credibility, but that it was not proof of how Kaye died. So, we get some
01:15:29
additional instruction from from the judge to the jury there, which is a little more than what I think is
01:15:36
necessary. But when they go back and talk to George, you know, she claims she had an affair with him and he denies
01:15:43
that. Yes. >> And he doesn't deny that he went to her house, which I thought was kind of odd.
01:15:48
Uh cuz he claimed I think he went to her house three times. >> Yeah. >> That's quite a bit.
01:15:53
>> You know, you're a married man. I don't know if you should be going over to a
01:15:57
lady's house that many times. That especially somebody that you just met just came into your life. It's not like
01:16:03
a longtime friend or anything. >> Yeah. Crystal Holloway would claim that they had a sexual relationship, that
01:16:10
they had a romantic affair that went on for some time. Uh that they spoke not only, you know, not only over the phone,
01:16:17
but they texted one another from time to time. And furthermore, that she loaned George quite a bit of money. I think it
01:16:24
was like $5,000 or something like that, >> which I kind of that to me kind of rings
01:16:30
true of kind of a true statement because we know how much George had issues financially.
01:16:37
>> Mhm. >> So, but we also have to take into account, you know, where this is coming
01:16:41
from, right? This is coming from a lady that got involved with the searches. Uh,
01:16:46
some people want to find the missing baby, >> right? >> Some people just want to be involved,
01:16:52
>> right? And I think this is one of those people. >> Yeah. >> I think she just wanted to be involved
01:16:58
and when the searches are over, okay, I can, you know, is it a madeup story that
01:17:03
they had affair? I don't know. Is it a madeup story that George told her something? I don't know.
01:17:08
>> Right. >> You know, I I just I you know, there's so many people in this case that
01:17:15
lie. >> Yeah. >> That it's hard to believe anything anyone's saying. Well, and I and I
01:17:21
believe that she gave that she said that he told her that statement that it was an accident that snowballed out of
01:17:28
control before they found the body of Kaye. Now, the other thing that the that the defense would present is that she
01:17:36
lived in one of those condo communities, this Crystal Holloway, and they had a security guard from that from that condo
01:17:44
community that had seen George going to and from her condo on several occasions.
01:17:49
Now, like you said, George does not deny that he went to visit her. He does deny
01:17:56
any type of romantic relationship with her. He denies that he ever borrowed any money from her. He does state that he
01:18:02
visited her on several occasions. He exchanged text messages with her. Um he was stating that she he was under the
01:18:10
impression that she had some form of cancer or a tumor and that he thought that he was you know she needed somebody
01:18:16
to talk with. She needed somebody to spend some time with her and that he thought he was doing a good deed in
01:18:23
spending time with her and helping her through her her troubled time. >> As far as closing statements go, they
01:18:29
did a lot of just repeat. They basically mirror what both the defense and the prosecution was trying to prove in their
01:18:37
opening statements and throughout the course of the trial. >> One of the big differences here though
01:18:42
was because Bayz didn't prove or even try to prove any sexual abuse. >> Mhm. >> That the they were ordered by the judge
01:18:49
that you can't talk about that in closing in your closing argument. Correct. You can't bring that up.
01:18:55
>> Correct. you know, and and to me that's that's pretty sneaky, pretty slimy to
01:19:01
make these allegations from the get-go to make all the jury go, "Whoa, what's going on here?" You can't unhear things
01:19:09
sometimes. >> Mhm. >> And I think that's kind of what Bayz was doing there. >> This is absolutely a whale of a case.
01:19:16
Everything that took place before and then we get to the trial, was it the trial of the century? One could argue
01:19:21
that, you know, the trial against the woman, the most hated woman in America. Well, it's a whale of evidence, right?
01:19:27
>> It's a and all that all the lies and all that speculation of what was going on in
01:19:33
those 31 days uh is such a mystery. Like we said, the trial's huge. Now, we have
01:19:40
to go over the verdict. >> And then we have to go over the aftermath. There's all these odd things
01:19:46
that keep popping up. Some stuff that just popped up recently. And uh the parents have interesting theories now
01:19:54
looking back on things and then of course our thoughts on the troll. >> I'm looking forward to that, Captain.
01:20:00
Maybe tomorrow. You know what? Maybe I'll take the handcuffs off you and and stop holding you back so much regarding
01:20:05
this. >> I can't tell you guys how many times I've had to edit some of my bad words.
01:20:10
>> We'll certainly give you a little window uh for that tomorrow. >> Well, thanks for supporting the show. We
01:20:16
love you. And make sure you support our sponsors. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. and we'll see you guys tomorrow.
01:20:21
And until then, be good, be kind, and don't let him