00:00:00
foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:00:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and I say turkey for the girls and turkey for the boys and here's a guy whose favorite
00:00:51
kind of pants are corduroys here's the captain I really did like corduroy pants in high school it's good to be seen and
00:00:59
it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] you know what would be great with
00:01:10
Thanksgiving dinner a little shot of whiskey with a refreshing lemon shandy Chaser that's right baby today we are
00:01:18
still sipping on a shady spot by our good friends over at Susquehanna Brewing Company ABV 4.5 garage grade four and a
00:01:27
quarter bottle caps out of five and let's start off with a big huge thank you to Porsha and Parts Unknown hey big
00:01:35
cheers to Amela and Boise Idaho next we have a nice contribution to this week's beer fun from Frank and Estelle
00:01:43
katstanza from Del Boca Vista retirement community in Los Angeles hahaha cat stanza can't stand you and a
00:01:53
big shout out to Allison and Ledgewood New Jersey and here's a double cheers to Jen and MJ at center caps direct they
00:02:01
are out in NACA nowhere which I believe is just one County over from Parts Unknown so cheers to Jen and MJ and
00:02:10
cheers to everyone who contributed to this week's garage fridge fill up beer run thank you guys so much for
00:02:17
supporting the show this year big things happening as this is our last show big things are happening because we're
00:02:26
we're quitting no just joking big things happening in 2021 and I hope 2000 I hope
00:02:33
everybody made it through 2020 and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair
00:02:41
grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Applause] [Music] We are continuing our discussion with
00:03:03
John Douglas retired FBI special agent John Douglas you know him from the Behavioral Science unit you may know him
00:03:11
from the wonderful show mind Hunter picking up where we left off we were discussing one of my favorite books law
00:03:18
and disorder and in particular the West Memphis 3 case Mr Douglas when you met Mark Byers there
00:03:25
was a dramatic contrast to your meeting with Terry Hobbs at first Mark Byers was
00:03:30
off put and not very welcoming to your conversation but he very quickly warmed up to you and then became very much an
00:03:38
open book whereas Terry Hobbs put on the facade of being welcoming and interested
00:03:44
in talking to you however as the conversation went along he became aggressive and became dodgy to your
00:03:51
questions he won yeah he very much so he a word got out that you know that that he
00:03:58
wanted to get have somebody uh get rid of me uh and uh like contract at me I mean killed uh but
00:04:07
buyers you're exactly right when I sat on that porch of his for the hot as heck down there and sweating and and he got
00:04:15
angry as hell and his wife was there and uh initially then I started talking I was on the porch like an hour or so
00:04:24
and then finally I I was invited into the house and I spent hours on hours you know you know with him and just
00:04:30
assessing him and I mean I mean the he's not the most the uh stable person at that certainly but he's he he didn't
00:04:43
kill he didn't kill his you know his his child a different feel too that I had when I spoke when I spoke to Terry Hobbs
00:04:52
and uh initially spoke with him at a shopping Center trying to get gain his trust and then when I started gain
00:04:59
information on him and he got really pissed off at me when I we were able to track down uh years earlier uh how he
00:05:07
broke into a house or a neighbor's house and uh as she was taking a shower and he
00:05:14
tried to molester try to molest this woman he thought that record was purged and it wasn't available and so he had
00:05:20
that he also shot his brother his brother-in-law and he was also extremely violent to his to his children his son
00:05:26
and his young son and daughter into his you know to his uh his wife uh his his wife is a believer that that he is
00:05:35
response possible for that crime but no one's going to really you know you know do it no one's really working it uh as
00:05:41
far as they're concerned with the child they don't have to pay they don't have to pay any money
00:05:46
to uh you know to Damon eckel and Jesse and Jason Baldwin uh any state money because
00:05:56
they had the pled the Alfred plea and uh so to this day they're they're sex offenders these these three
00:06:05
I did a presentation with Amanda Knox and Jesse Miss Kelly about a year and a half ago up in uh up in New York and uh
00:06:13
you could see we just they I took a chunk out of their lives it's like they're it's like they're they're behind
00:06:21
developmentally emotionally because of the time that we they spent a period of time in their lives in uh in prison
00:06:29
particularly uh uh Damien and and it was the same too with Amanda the same same thing speaking of
00:06:38
interviewing parents of victims and also parents that may be considered suspects
00:06:43
you were directly involved in the still unsolved homicide of six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey for those who are yet to
00:06:51
read the cases that haunt us can you explain how you became involved in the case yeah I was in uh I happen to be in
00:06:58
Utah at the time speaking at a university when I got a call from an investigator who's working on the
00:07:04
defense team I didn't know who he was and uh asked me that if I would like to participate in in the investigation and
00:07:13
I and I told a colleague of mine who used to work for me in a unit I accepted it and and I said this family is guilty
00:07:22
you know I'm in the back of my mind I'm thinking that you know they're guilty because what I was reading in the paper
00:07:27
is what was being presented on on television so I I go over and I meet the the attorneys in in Denver and uh an old
00:07:37
mansion they have as a as an office and inside of what would be the living room there's a is a closed encasement of a of
00:07:45
like a fiberglass room within the room and go in there so I'm thinking in the back of my mind I'm one of these guys
00:07:51
going to do they're gonna they're gonna like offer me money or something they're
00:07:54
gonna pay me I'm gonna give them a rash of craft man walk right out on them but I got in there and and I
00:08:01
sat down and they said John we don't know we really don't know we don't know just so we don't think they
00:08:08
did it uh we but we we'd like you to take a look or what we have can we present to you what what we have and I
00:08:16
said yeah he says but you know uh and they are going to pay me they're going to pay me but the pay people thank God I
00:08:23
was became a millionaire fifteen hundred dollars I spent a lot of time I testified out there and everything uh
00:08:29
and because once I realized I'm I was not working for I was working for victims wasn't working for offenders I
00:08:36
was working for victims of a violent crime who had been who are now in the process of being re-victimized uh by
00:08:43
being accused of killing their child but once I saw how how she was how she was murdered and the
00:08:48
things that was done to her that was wasn't all Nate made uh public uh and and uh
00:08:55
parents kill believe me we have had plenty of cases parents killed but not like this not like this not in this uh
00:09:04
with this family this this type of family you know either uh they don't kill like like this so I did the
00:09:12
analysis I I met with the family uh and uh what actually uh first thing I did I went to the house and kind of
00:09:21
reenact and reconstructed things to see where they were lit uh their bedroom was
00:09:26
was their bedroom was up like in an attic that was made into a master bedroom and the children on the next
00:09:31
floor down and you can't hear anything with the Air Conditioning Heating units going you really can't hear anything if
00:09:36
anyone was down below you uh there uh but I looked at the when I look at a case like that okay you're looking at
00:09:44
then I'm looking at pre-offense Behavior post-defense Behavior what's going on in
00:09:50
their lives you know and I didn't see anything in pre-defense behavior that it would that I I was out of the ordinary
00:09:56
or unusual it's Christmas time they're going to Charlevoix Michigan for the holidays and I think they're going to
00:10:01
work their way down to Disney Disney World uh and I don't see anything there now we perpetrate the crime okay the
00:10:09
crime has been perpetrated let's take a look at that and then I saw where the investigators asked John and a
00:10:18
neighbor Fleetwood to take a look around see if anything's out of the ordinary take a look downstairs in this basement
00:10:25
so they they go down there usually when a parent kills what we found over the years that the parent the parent who did
00:10:32
the killing it won't be the one to find the body you'll get somebody else the person with them or if it's searching in
00:10:39
the yard or something with a cert or a search party they may they are not going to be the one to find the child
00:10:46
in this situation here Fleet white goes down John goes into this room checks it's a it's a wine cellar but there's no
00:10:53
wine they don't even drink and there he finds uh uh his daughter oh my God my baby he he shouts out and uh she has
00:11:04
tape over her mouth her hands are over her head uh uh tied together uh he doesn't know it yet but she is garotted
00:11:12
uh and uh he then picks her up carries her upstairs lays her down in the eventually
00:11:20
and they I guess it's in the the living room a bunch of people are up there everything's contaminated uh and uh
00:11:27
they're trying to bring her back to life rubbing her body that's in rigor and uh there's a little bruise on her on
00:11:34
her forehead so she has a bruise on her forehead they should she uh has been garotted
00:11:40
they can't even see the girl she's been garotted and a piece of the the paintbrush is used to to as a handle to
00:11:49
garat or with a rope at in this nylon rope that they never found where this rope was that Ramsay
00:11:56
didn't have and they didn't find any other pieces of it uh they find a wood fibers from uh from a uh from the same
00:12:05
paintbrush in their vaginal vaginal area she's been penetrated with uh I believe
00:12:11
now with that with that stick that's how that that uh you know got there uh when
00:12:17
they they start the autopsy and they remove uh the skull or the the skin on the skull uh surprisingly they find that
00:12:27
the skull has been uh cracked open like a like a coconut like eight eight and a half inches in length but why is there
00:12:35
just a little red slight red mark on our forehead and my gosh to break your skull
00:12:41
you think it would be some kind of Edema to be swelling and blood and uh well it's why is because the
00:12:49
she was dead or on her last breath when when the person responds wasn't satisfied enough uh with uh with the
00:13:00
uh with with the death itself so he he does are in uh it wasn't necessary for the the kill like she's already you know
00:13:08
dead from from the uh the garage uh and so uh and then the letter the other thing the letter correct that's famous
00:13:17
the two and a half page letter and the FBI was against me if police hated me around the country and you know never
00:13:23
saw a two and a half page letter and yeah that's right they're right about that however when would the letter have
00:13:30
been written is the question you mean to tell me that after the rain tell me the
00:13:35
Ramses have been murdered now you're going to write a two and a half Page Letter uh uh this threatening letter
00:13:44
asking for money and the money is coincides roughly to what a bonus that John Ramsey has but you're gonna be
00:13:51
pulling in into this letter different different verses that are coming right out of movies out of movies like Ransom
00:13:58
uh and uh and you can have the presence of mind to you know to do something like
00:14:05
that after after uh the crime no yeah no you're you're not you're not going to have that kind of presence of mind so I
00:14:13
just saw so many different different things and you know the bureau if they were angry you know you know
00:14:19
like I I may be you know I like when I saw Alex Hunter talking before the public we know you're out there right
00:14:26
now there's going to be there's more than one of you I know I knew that he was coached by without anyone telling me
00:14:32
I mean I I invented this stuff that that he was being told by by the Agents of of
00:14:38
what to say but I'm not telling that I'm not still telling the the uh the defense
00:14:44
what they're doing here what the what you know what their tactics are I'm not doing it I would have loved to have been
00:14:49
you know been able to solve that case if it was then just come up and get a confession out of them but that was not
00:14:57
that was you know not the case and and it was as a broken man I met John several times uh and uh a broken a
00:15:06
Broken Man uh Patsy Ramsey's the stage she was in remissions cancer returned she died everyone was waiting
00:15:15
for a dying declaration there was no dying declaration she didn't kill her I killed her daughter John is sensory
00:15:21
married CBS comes out with a a TV show with these so-called FBI some form of agent
00:15:28
expert experts in quotes and and uh forensic experts and and they and they come up with this Theory more than a
00:15:39
theory but a can accusation that that uh Burke Ramsey is responsible for the uh you know the death I mean I I was I was
00:15:48
watching that I'm thinking holy Mackle you can't say something like that I mean here Burke is yeah he's I'm not going to
00:15:57
say where he lives but I've come across him over the uh the years I mean he he did not uh hit his sister
00:16:08
accidentally or whatever or on on purpose in fact if if the parents knew that they never would allowed him to
00:16:17
talk to the police alone without even the parents the parents in the presence of of Burke so that's another one of
00:16:26
these cases where you know they what they did what they did Nick is they and you see this sometimes on cases you you
00:16:34
let they let a theory drive an investigation and they let certain evidence that supports the theory in and
00:16:41
they disallow some evidence that doesn't fit the theory out you know so so they let not Theory you know drive it not
00:16:48
being driven by evidence of any kind or uh forensic or uh evidence of whatever I
00:16:56
witnessed testimony you know they're letting letting a theory uh and you know why because two because you had it you
00:17:02
didn't have a homicide investigated working out case you have a drug investigator working a Narcotics officer
00:17:08
at work in that case and because they have so few cases they rotate them out there in Boulder and so the mindset of a
00:17:15
Narcotics officer is different than a homicide officer a Narcotics officer knows comes knows you're dealing knows
00:17:23
it's you I know it's you I'm going to make a case on you I'm going to make it you know on you I'm going to build a
00:17:28
case all around you informants whatever we're going to get you well you get that
00:17:32
mindset in the homicide case I know you did I know a certain Behavior Patsy when
00:17:39
they brought the child up to pass he was there fingers were splayed across her face peeking through her eyes and all
00:17:44
that other other nonsense stuff no you let you let uh uh you look you let us Theory drive your investigation you you
00:17:52
were you're into a Narcotics investigation mindset not a homicide investigators and that's why who's the
00:17:59
investigator from Colorado Springs uh Lou Smith yeah that's what I was going to say as soon as you are brought in to
00:18:05
take a look at the case and as soon as the famous homicide detective the late great Lou Smith is brought in to take a
00:18:13
look at the case the two of you separately come up with very similar conclusions it's the famous Lou Smith
00:18:20
Intruder Theory when I testify for the grand jury and then uh he tests he's testified I guess
00:18:27
before I did some a different day and I I testified afterwards they said that Lou Smith
00:18:33
wanted to speak with me and over in Colorado Springs great guy really great guy and uh so they drove me over there
00:18:42
and and uh I knock on his door and he comes to the door and he said and introduce ourselves he
00:18:49
said John I said I don't know I don't know how you did it like it took me 10 months 10 months you came up with this
00:18:56
in four days four or five days whatever whatever it was and he said and you didn't see everything and I've got
00:19:01
everything I got everything here I I I'd like to go through the case of PowerPoint presentation and with you and
00:19:08
I said that'd be great so I went down in his basement he went through the whole case and then seen even everything but
00:19:14
things I didn't see I just I I just uh showcase had to make assumptions uh everything just fit and uh then they
00:19:23
were coming out that you know that uh that that Lou and myself that the family was religious that we were that we were
00:19:33
being pulled into the Ramses because of uh fate because of faith and now we've both of us have been in an
00:19:43
investigators of all types well best religious people I mean we don't don't you don't care but but if we don't
00:19:52
like you know a wrongful convictions and and destroying the lives of you know of
00:19:58
of people I mean it's terrible to lose your child but now to be to be accused of killing uh killing your child and and
00:20:06
uh and that's when you get into Nick the like social media where it can be dangerous
00:20:11
a lot of social media could be good where you can develop will help them actually can help law enforcement what
00:20:17
leads people discussion and there's been some websites that have been very very successful but then you get others you
00:20:23
know which can totally could jeopardize uh investigate investigation and shape the attitude of of people I remember
00:20:31
right after that too I'm on a train going up to New York and and there's a guy in front of me and this is after I
00:20:38
did an announcement analysis I'm back and and on the night of the Cross it's like the head on the night of the crime
00:20:45
Patsy was with was with out with her lover and I'm thinking what the hell so I when I get to New York I call I said I
00:20:52
was did was Patsy Haller an affair with some guy you're not telling me what are you talking about and I said this guy
00:20:58
but it's one of these rag tabloid things I saw this on a train no that's garbage
00:21:04
it's garbage but you can see how people see that that kind of crap you know and uh and and and start believing you know
00:21:12
start believing in it and you can't you can't sway their their uh their opinion yeah at all
00:21:18
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] do you think we will ever know who
00:21:46
killed JonBenet I hope so I mean I don't know you hear different things of a yeah if
00:21:53
they brought in a they've had some good suspect they had one good suspect there they had several
00:21:59
I mean the place was full of uh sex offenders all around the areas where where Patsy
00:22:05
and John were living there but then there was one guy who uh who committed suicide uh he had access to a stun gun
00:22:14
see the police discount that because Lou Smith went over the stun gun and showed
00:22:19
me they did they did test with a medical doctor on pigs uh using a stun gun showing the marks and
00:22:28
similarities here I mean hopefully you know DNA familial DNA or something will you know we'll solve that that case one
00:22:38
day but I don't know if they're they're working and I hear once in a while you hear like a new attorney general come in
00:22:42
we're going to take a new look at the case or the the uh a prosecutor wants to take a look at the case but you know
00:22:50
hopefully I mean uh you can look at the Golden State case I mean after all these
00:22:55
years I mean we worked that case the you know I just worked the I worked one was
00:22:59
the East area rapist the rapes uh that that he was that he was doing and uh but we didn't
00:23:07
it wasn't responsible it's just DNA DNA got him which was after so many years a police officer
00:23:14
was responsible we're all very excited for the release of your new book The Killers Shadow the FBI's hunt for a
00:23:23
white supremacist serial killer can you tell us a little bit about your latest book
00:23:31
serial killer and it was a case that the first case that the bureau would give me
00:23:36
only because they've uh of a supervisor on the Civil Rights division uh Squad up
00:23:42
at headquarters we knew each other from Milwaukee division we're on the same SWAT team
00:23:47
together and I he knew I was doing this research on serial murders and going to prisons and he calls me to see if I
00:23:54
could be a be of help so this would be different Nick this would not be a profile so much as it would be an
00:23:59
assessment uh yeah like so you got to kind of do your own show with years ago it's called this is your life you know
00:24:05
and uh and they would do this back ground of a total background of a guy so I would go up to headquarters and uh
00:24:14
yeah and there was a lot of pressure because if I screw this thing up I'm just starting to get going here and now
00:24:20
that not everyone is supportive within the organization of me doing any of this this research uh they just don't
00:24:27
understand you know what the purpose of it is even though we're helping local police on the later International police
00:24:33
departments here so so the assessment is is that the the latest thing with Franklin is is that he's linked to the
00:24:42
over 20 homicides he travels he's prolific bank robber uh he unlike serial killers that have a particular
00:24:50
comfort zone for the crimes this guy is all over the place he's all over the map
00:24:54
uh he's a bomber someone's case are a bombing uh he is a bank bank robber prolific bank robber uh he is a it turns
00:25:08
out to be an excellent shot with a rifle in in fact he's excellent shot with only
00:25:14
one eye because when he as a youth he lost the sight of eyes in his right eye in an accident
00:25:22
people think it said it was a bicycle now it wasn't a bicycle accident it was a shade an old a window shade with a
00:25:28
spring inside and this thing was playing with the brother the spring came out popped them right in the eye mother took
00:25:34
him to the hospital a mother who was extremely abusive to him a father extremely again a very very abusive uh
00:25:41
to him and and his brothers and and sisters mother takes him to the hospital the
00:25:46
doctor says can't do anything right now well it's temporary bringing back in a couple of months we'll do some surgery
00:25:52
and we'll make his eye good as new she doesn't do that she doesn't take them back as a young child to the hospital he
00:25:59
ends up losing his sight and he then uh what a way to overcompensate the loss of
00:26:04
his side is to be an excellent shot uh he wanted to be a police officer too another one he said oh another guy wants
00:26:10
to be an officer and uh when he when he heard through a neighbor who was a police officer that he couldn't join
00:26:17
because of the loss of of one eye he extremely angry and bitter again towards his uh you know towards his mother hate
00:26:28
it hated his mother and his father that's why he would he would he would change his name to Joseph his name was
00:26:32
James Vaughn he would change his name to Joseph Paul Paul Franklin and then uh uh he then was gravitated to these uh
00:26:43
KKK different uh these radical hate groups uh American Nazi party passing out literature today he would have a field
00:26:53
day with the internet uh access uh but then what he realized was because he was paranoid that these organizations were
00:27:02
pretty much uh infiltrated By FBI by FBI informants and they were keeping good tabs on them
00:27:10
uh on these organizations back there back then and they were primarily you know talking the talk but not walking
00:27:16
the walk and he got became frustrated and uh decided to go out on his own and and the so-called birth of the the Lone
00:27:26
Wolf Lone Wolf uh criminal and it just started by tailing interracial couples first one was up in Maryland uh he mace
00:27:35
them but then that was after the Mason then that was the last time he used mace from then on in he would uh
00:27:43
he would start using uh various Firearms he he shot the Larry Flint uh the of uh
00:27:52
Flint uh Hustler magazine he shot he shot him uh he shot uh Vernon Jordan uh civil rights leader uh you know at the
00:28:03
time he wrote a threatening letter to uh to Jimmy Carter uh Secret Service was uh
00:28:09
when he wasn't identified yet was was trying to figure out you know who done it so I what I said was with him the
00:28:17
long short of it is I came up with an assessment that predicted where he would go in the in the country and that would
00:28:24
be now now that he's a fugitive he's a top 10 uh yeah he committed these crimes all around these other areas but he's
00:28:32
gonna it's gonna be a homing pigeon now he's going back to mobile it's going back to mobile into Florida he may not
00:28:39
be robbing banks because we will have a lot of these Banks be notified staked out and but
00:28:47
the teletype then was teletypes was an internet teletype goes out he spotted in Mobile Alabama the agent in charge of
00:28:56
the office calls me and wants to know the name of the bank or savings a loan do I think this guy is going to be
00:29:01
robbing it I said what I said I can't I don't know I you didn't even know what city he was in I I told you what city
00:29:08
he's in so he was there temporarily uh they spotted him surveillance camera and a blood bank and then they they uh
00:29:16
passed out flyers on him through all these different blood banks and in this deep south out in Florida and that's
00:29:23
where he would be he would be spotted uh in a blood bank so uh got him there coached they'll see they'll coach the uh
00:29:31
the agent on the interview a little bit uh but then I got to interview him uh later on in the uh in the late 80s 90
00:29:41
90-ish with with a secret service agent you would have thought Nick that secret service would have had a behavioral
00:29:48
science unit over the years they did not have a unit like we had they did they had not done research like we were doing
00:29:54
with violent crimes uh at all and so I did a couple of cases for secret service over the years that turned out pretty
00:30:01
good and so then they sent down a guy great a great guy he's passed away uh Ken Baker Secret
00:30:09
Service and and uh we we conducted some research on Assassin interview like squeaky from who shot Ford Sarah J Moore
00:30:19
shot Ford Arthur baremma who shot George Wallace James Earl Ray Dr Martin Luther
00:30:24
Luther King and other assassination style of killings and that's why we interviewed Franklin because he had that
00:30:31
Fascination style of killing and the problem is is uh is that and we come up with this killer Shadow is that to this
00:30:41
day he still cast a shadow a long Shadow because there are others like him out there he's now he's been executed 2013
00:30:50
but uh uh there are others who in fact the law enforcement come across and now and then who uh are emulating people you
00:31:01
know like him who who are being influenced today not so much like the old days where it would be in a some
00:31:08
some hall room we're meeting or somebody someone's basement now it's on the internet where you can have uh you could
00:31:16
have and there's hundreds and hundreds of sites these uh racist sites anti-semitic sites where where someone
00:31:23
can gravitate to that and not everyone will go out and perpetrate acts of violence but but someone may and someone
00:31:32
will will see that and and take action like a you know like this uh uh Joseph uh Paul Franklin uh you know character
00:31:42
and so it's and so it's much it's difficult today to investigate them in the old days you had an organization now
00:31:49
you have you have someone who could be influenced saying others but it's not they're not tied into there's no
00:31:56
hierarchy there's no leader and soldiers you know none of that lieutenants like an organized crime even you don't have
00:32:03
you don't have anything like that so it makes it extremely difficult for law enforcement and law enforcement
00:32:08
resources are very skimpy particularly after 9 11 the emphasis was on uh it was on
00:32:15
International terrorism a little bit de-emphasis on because of resources on domestic domestic terrorism
00:32:22
so it's uh it's not over he'll they'll be others other cases unfortunately uh yeah
00:32:32
hopefully we can what we we can rely on is is information from the public when they see someone who's becoming obsessed
00:32:40
with with hatred and anti-semitic uh anti-everything or African-Americans and it's becoming uh
00:32:50
obsessed with weapons and other maybe weapons of Destruction uh law enforcement can't be everywhere
00:32:59
at every time so they rely on public information from Anonymous sources that's what they need to follow up the
00:33:07
leads to see if this person you know if they can it will carry out a uh you know
00:33:13
this you know a violent act it's kind of like a school shooter I mean you have certain indicators but you can't always
00:33:21
predict for 100 you can interact interest or intercede and take some action family or
00:33:30
yeah yeah and give this person counseling or whatever but it's very very difficult it's very very difficult
00:33:37
for law enforcement so they're gonna that's what they'll see in this book they'll see the evolution
00:33:42
of him how and and uh kind of like the the uh Sonny Bono and Cher the beat goes on and the beat goes on it'll be more
00:33:52
unfortunately there'll be more probably cases like this in the future Mr Douglas thank you again for your time
00:34:00
today and for doing the interview you've been more than generous with us here in
00:34:04
the garage thanks a lot have me again and we're working on another one for next year next year we'll be doing one
00:34:11
they want us to do like kind of like an Ann Rule thing like one case case that sometimes be a case
00:34:17
that I've worked or maybe case to take a look at you know a new case uh investigate uh try to come up with a
00:34:24
solution or so so have me back yes sir as soon as you're done with this next book we'd
00:34:29
love to have you back thank you so much enjoyed it keep up the good work thank you Mr Douglas for joining us in the
00:34:34
garage foreign [Music] thank you so much for joining us here in the garage letting us be a part of your
00:34:51
week letting us be a part of your holidays Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week we have a
00:34:59
lot to recommend today first off the True Crime garage every single episode archive is available for your listening
00:35:07
pleasure when you download the free Stitcher listening app on your device that's right over 440 episodes to listen
00:35:15
to for free including the last time Mr John Douglas was on the show back in May of 2019 in the John Douglas mind Hunter
00:35:26
episode number 302 also we will be recommending a batch of John Douglas's books we recommended The Killers Shadow
00:35:35
last week and you heard us reference in our discussion this week some of his other great books including the cases
00:35:42
that haunt us law and disorder and the killer across the table we will have all of those great titles listed on our
00:35:49
recommended page at True Crime garage.com here's us wishing all of you and yours a very safe and Happy
00:35:57
Thanksgiving be good be thankful and please don't live [Music] foreign