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Heat [music] [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
00:01:39
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is the philosopher, the heartbreaker, the king of sting, the
00:01:46
count of Monty Fisto. Here is the cat. If he dies, he dies. [music] It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks
00:01:53
for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. >> Ah, you know what they say, Captain. You
00:02:02
want the truth? Well, you can't handle the truth. Well, we can handle it. And in fact, I'll have another. We are
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sipping on Truth IPA by the awesome folks down at Ryan Brewery. This one, I think, has the right amount of hops,
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right amount of hoppy, and a nearperfect ABV of 7.2%. balance out nicely with sweet tropical
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fruit to hide that bitterness. Garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and
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praise to our good friends. First up, we have Jacob Fields from Big D, Dallas, Texas. And a big tall hands in the air.
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And we like Kujib goes out to Peter from Melbourne, Australia. >> Lend me a hand, Captain, as we have a
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triplefisted cheers to longtime listeners, father and two lovely daughters. We have Brian, Shannon, and
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Miranda in Frenchburg, Kentucky. And triple up again because here's a cheers 3X to Simon, Bucky, and Lou in
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Bloomington, Minnesota. Everyone, we just mentioned [music] they helped us fill up the old garage fridge this week.
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And for that, oh yes, we thank you. [music] >> Yeah. BWR beer run. Go check out the TCG
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Christmas merch. It's in the store. You'll love it. [music] And that's enough of the business.
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>> All right, everybody. Gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
00:03:38
[music] The devil's going to get [music] you in your sleep. The devil's going to get [music] you in
00:03:53
your sleep. [music] The devil's going to get you in your sleep. The devil is [music] going to get you in
00:04:05
your sleep. >> We have gone in depth through three crime scenes. Each one of them horrific.
00:04:12
Each one of them terrifying. Two of them resulting in double homicide. We have six victims with four of them dead. It's
00:04:21
1946 and we are in Tex Arcana and the Phantom or the Phantom Killer as he would later be known. The work of the
00:04:31
Phantom was starting to take form and it was clear young couples, isolated roads,
00:04:38
weekends, a pistol, and merciless violence. But now we get to the scene of the fourth attack. So this attack is
00:04:48
very different. And I say that for two reasons. One, the victims here are older than the 20 year olds and teenagers
00:04:58
previously attacked. Not much older, but a little bit. And the major difference here, the attack this time, I call this
00:05:06
one the farmhouse [ __ ] And as my title suggests, this attack takes place at a house. So not a young couple parked in a
00:05:14
car in a lover's lane. We're going to go to May 3rd, 1946 when the phantom struck
00:05:21
again. This time at a farmhouse. We have Virgil Starks was shot twice through his
00:05:28
window while sitting in his living room. His wife Katie ran to call for help, but
00:05:36
she was shot twice herself. Let me set this up. She's in the other room, and she says that she heard a noise that she
00:05:44
found to be strange. was like either her husband who's sitting in the other room,
00:05:49
she's in a bedroom, he's in the living room, she thinks that maybe he dropped something, she thinks she hears breaking
00:05:56
glass. She's not sure what the noise is, but it startles her to enter the room where her husband is. And she said that
00:06:03
her husband, Virgil Starks, he started to stand up and then he slumped back down and fell down. She goes to their
00:06:12
phone, the phone in their house to call for help. At the same time, gunshots come from the direction of the
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window that is near where Virgil was sitting. This poor woman, Captain, is shot twice. So, she decides she's got to
00:06:31
get the hell out of there. Bleeding, terrified. She flees barefoot into the night, racing off to the
00:06:40
neighbor's house. Now, keep in mind these two, this is a legit farmhouse, meaning they own acres and
00:06:51
acres and acres of land. I think it's something like 300 acres. She has to run a great distance to get to the
00:06:58
neighbor's house, but once she makes it there, thankfully, she's able to call for help. So unlike the Lovers Lane
00:07:05
attacks that we've talked about, this crime shattered the illusion that safety could be found at home, that you were
00:07:13
safe from the Phantom if you were inside your house at night. The Phantom was no
00:07:17
longer confined to the shadows of parked cars where he could strike anywhere. >> Well, like you said, they had a lot of
00:07:24
land, so you're shot, but now you have to run. And you're not just running next door, you're running quite a bit of ways
00:07:34
to to get help. >> I think she got lucky with one of the shots that went through her cheek
00:07:41
and I believe the other one struck her in the face as well. So the these >> something nobody has ever said before.
00:07:50
Oh well, I think she got lucky by the one shot hit in her cheek. >> Yeah, I it sounds funny to say, but
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you're also about two to three inches dis depending on the size of your head from
00:08:01
the brain. And you ain't running you ain't running to the neighbors that get shot in the brain.
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>> I'm not a doctor, but I I can surmise that you won't be you won't be making it
00:08:12
very far if that happens. So, she rushes off to to get help, not just for herself, but for her husband.
00:08:19
Unfortunately, Virgil Starks, he dies at the scene. And there's a little more to this chase from my
00:08:27
understanding. than what we just went through. We really kind of simplified it there. But
00:08:33
from my understanding here, Captain, none of it takes place outside of the house, right? She she is shot at she's
00:08:43
shot and then she hears someone trying to bust into their back door. They had like a screened in porch and whoever
00:08:52
this was, they went around to the back and tried to bust in through the back door to get in to get to Mrs. Starks.
00:09:00
And that's why she's I've got to hang up this phone and go get out of this house.
00:09:06
And really truly the positioning of the home where she was in the home and then the attacker well killer attempting to
00:09:14
come in through the back of the house probably gave her the distance from the killer that she needed to get out of
00:09:20
there and successfully get to help. I wanted to hear what I wanted to see in these reports that was not found and
00:09:29
shout out to our our beautiful listeners. If you anybody has this information, I want to know it. In any
00:09:36
of her statements, does she ever say that she thought the attacker was chasing after her?
00:09:45
Because I couldn't find any version of that that states either way that no, he didn't chase after her or yes, she
00:09:53
believed that she was being chased. >> Yeah, but we've all been there where you're riding your bike home when you're
00:09:58
a little kid and you think something's behind. Yes. to start riding faster and you think that this thing is coming up
00:10:07
on you and then every time you look back there's nothing there and this is just your imagination. She was just shot in
00:10:15
the face twice. Well, and this is so you're already you have a public that is in full panic mode. They're terrified.
00:10:24
The Phantom's out there on the streets late at night on the weekends killing targeting young couples in their cars.
00:10:34
But now here we have a couple who is attacked inside their home. It's not like they were attacked outside
00:10:42
and fled into their home. No, they're just sitting there doing their evening minding their own business and the
00:10:50
killer came to them. So, this is from this is from the Texas Paris News, printed the Sunday after the murder of
00:10:59
Virgil Starks, our fifth murder victim here. The paper had a couple of pictures of investigators at the scene at the
00:11:08
Starks home. And they also had a rather haunting close-up picture of Virgil. He sort of has this blank expressionless
00:11:17
stare. The headline is fifth killing panics Tex Arcana citizens and reads in short a phantom killer believed to be
00:11:28
responsible for five murders here in six weeks continued to elude a concentrated
00:11:35
manhunt by both Texas and Arkansas officials. A stunned, tense Tex Arcana was shocked by details
00:11:46
of Friday night's cold-blooded killing of popular Virgil Starks, aged 36, and the serious wounding of his attractive
00:11:54
30year-old brunette wife, in their farm home near home in Arkansas. This is interesting and this is a part
00:12:03
that I don't think gets examined enough by us all these decades later. Right? This case is always referred to as the
00:12:14
Phantom Killer, who is the unknown killer or where it took place, the Tex Arcana
00:12:21
Moonlight murders. Now, none of these attacks or murders took place on a night with a full moon. However, they all took
00:12:31
place on a weekend, >> right? >> Which I find to be incredibly interesting. Look, if it happens twice,
00:12:40
it could be a coincidence, but four times, there's something to that. But then the other part of this, Captain is
00:12:47
we always say Tex Arcana. We always say Texas Arcana, but what is lost from this
00:12:54
is the first two attacks took place on the Texas side. The third attack I think is kind of difficult to say because we
00:13:03
have a body here, we have a body there, and we have a car in a whole different place.
00:13:07
>> Right. So, I I think I think if I had to guess, I'm not willing to wager Franklin
00:13:14
on it, but if I had to guess here, I would I would believe that the third attack took place where the young man
00:13:21
Paul Martin was found dead. That it started there and that the vehicle where it was found is the last part of that
00:13:29
crime scene. That would be my guess. here with the farmhouse attack. This takes place much deeper into Arkansas.
00:13:39
So this is this is not even in Tex Arcana. This is about uh as said it's it's near home in
00:13:47
Arkansas. So we have a whole different county investigating this. So with the first
00:13:55
three attacks, you have different jurisdictions because you have this weird city and I mean that in a good
00:14:01
way. Texas Arcana where you have half of it in one state and half of it in the other state. So naturally, you're going
00:14:07
to have two different investigating agencies there. You have the Texas Rangers who get involved in this
00:14:13
investigation. Ultimately, the FBI will get involved as well. But and then in this case, you have uh I believe it's
00:14:20
Wright County. I would have to look up what county it was, but it's a completely different county. And this
00:14:28
one is out in the middle of nowhere. This one just this location in regard in relationship to the other three attacks
00:14:38
makes no sense to me. >> Yeah. Again, we have to determine whether these attacks are connected. But
00:14:46
then I think also if they are connected, then you go, how is the killer getting where he's getting to? Is it by car? Is
00:14:55
it by foot? Is it by bicycle? >> And is anybody targeted? >> Right. And I think you could say if if
00:15:03
this this guy is a popular guy again, see the the point I was trying to make and you didn't rudely cut me off,
00:15:14
but you did cut me off, but is could you imagine you got some sicko out there and
00:15:24
it's not just okay, it's a sexually motivated crime, so I'm going to go to lever's lane, But it's also like the the
00:15:33
jealousy of the man because I'm out here and I'm gonna whatever I'm gonna do, I'm
00:15:39
gonna have to do by force. This guy got this girl to come out all on her own willingly. She wants to be out here with
00:15:48
him. So, the jealousy towards the guys, the hatred towards the guys because they
00:15:58
they're doing and they're at where this killer wants to be. So, it's not that far to go, well, if they're all
00:16:07
connected and that's part of the motivation or part of the connective tissue of the
00:16:14
crimes, then you got this guy that's popular with a beautiful wife. Oh, well, if I'm going to attack
00:16:23
somebody not at Lover's Lane, this could be like the the pinnacle, if I'm making any sense at all.
00:16:31
>> Yeah. And I don't look I don't doubt that those nicities were true with all this popular guy Virgil Starks or his
00:16:42
his attractive 30-year-old brunette wife. I don't doubt that those I'm not trying to say that those statements are
00:16:48
true, but coming from a guy that reads a lot of really old newspapers, they they
00:16:53
would do that in every writeup on they they would like go out of their way to say something complimentary about the
00:17:00
person dead or alive. >> Yeah. What are you talking about? We still do it now. Every victim lights up
00:17:06
the goddamn room. >> Well, >> I've never met anybody that just lights up the damn room
00:17:12
>> a lot of times. Well, a lot of times that statements like that are coming from somebody that knew the victim very
00:17:18
well, that was good friends with them or a brother or sister or or a teacher, somebody that had a very close
00:17:24
relationship with the victim. This this is just a newspaper writer, a reporter who is filling space with additional
00:17:32
words probably. But, and again, we don't need to go too far down this road. For all I know, his wife was incredibly
00:17:38
attractive. Um, and Virgil was incredibly popular. I'm just pointing out that if you read if you read the
00:17:45
entirety of that day's newspaper that I pulled that little article from, I guarantee you you'd hear a lot of
00:17:52
successful such and such, attractive so and so. And it it they all read like that, especially the 40s and 50s. I had
00:18:00
mentioned Wright County earlier. I was completely wrong on that one, Captain. Want to clear that up before we go any
00:18:04
further. Miller County was what I didn't remember. It wouldn't be a true crime garage episode if we weren't wrong about
00:18:12
something. >> That's right. So, you have multiple jurisdictions involved. And if you look
00:18:19
at where these attacks are taking place on a map, again, I find it very interesting that a couple take place in
00:18:25
the Texas side and then you have this one kind of deep. It's not deep into Arkansas, but when you consider it in
00:18:31
relation to the other attacks that we've gone through, I think deep is a fair description. Now, here though, Captain,
00:18:40
we have a couple different things to work with. And those couple of things are what we don't hear much of in the
00:18:45
first several scenes. These couple of things are what we like to call what we call in the crime fighting business
00:18:52
evidence. [snorts] So, we have some evidence here. We have three clues from the Starks murder scene. The flashlight,
00:19:02
a flashlight was found in the Stark's yard near their home. So presumably the killer ditched the flashlight.
00:19:11
This could be before he was attempting to break into the back of the house. >> Could be when he was fleeing the house,
00:19:17
fleeing the the large property. >> They also found a 22 gun. >> They also found a 22 caliber bullet. and
00:19:25
a bloody footprint. I would love to get some information on this damn footprint.
00:19:29
Why? How? And why? When we see these articles and when things are reported, especially 80 years later, if the
00:19:36
information was known, why don't they bother to ever tell us the size of the footprint? Very, very rarely do they
00:19:42
tell us the size of the footprint? That would be key here. I want to know, right? Uh and but
00:19:49
what we have yet to hone in on is this is a different caliber of gun that was used
00:19:55
When if you find a a 22 caliber bullet, we're talking about a 22 caliber gun that was used at the Stark scene. It was
00:20:01
a 32 caliber that was used at the two double homicide scenes, >> right? There was talk at the time that
00:20:08
this case, this part might not be related to the other parts. And some of that was, I think they were really
00:20:16
digging into the Starks and trying to figure out what was going on. And I think there was even rumor of a love
00:20:23
triangle or or something something going on within the marriage or outside of the marriage I should say.
00:20:30
But I've also seen many reports that state that they couldn't find anything bad about either Mr. or Mrs. Starks and
00:20:38
that that was just local rumor at the time. So I think I leave it there that it was local rumor. Well, of course you
00:20:45
got a young couple, attractive couple farm seems to be successful there. There's reason to believe. But
00:20:56
but I'm kind of with you though where you you have evidence that it's a different gun and it's a different
00:21:04
location. So it's hard for me to say that this one is connected or not. And I think if we
00:21:14
had the surviving victim say, "Well, I saw a man with a a mask." Then then you go, "Okay, well that's
00:21:24
very similar to the other attack." Well, this area, this especially Tex Arcana is
00:21:30
in such a panic that any crime that contained a heightened element of violence to it. I mean, it really was
00:21:42
like everything was the Phantom until it's not. That could have been the case here. And and you're right there,
00:21:48
Captain. When you we look at these and try to compare apples to apples, I don't think we have apples. I don't think we
00:21:57
have four four apples here. I think we have an orange, two apples in the middle, and then a banana on the end.
00:22:03
>> Or a pair. >> Thank you. A pair would be nice. >> My question though is, do we know where
00:22:08
this couple was coming from? Were they just at the house or >> Yeah, they were just they were just at
00:22:14
their house after dinner on a Friday night. like she she was going to be going to bed. I I believe so he was
00:22:21
sitting in the living room or family room, whatever you want to call it. He's >> Let's be clear, the dinner was at their
00:22:29
house because that that's what where I'm unsure. It's like did they go out for dinner and then did this maniac follow
00:22:36
him back? I had seen I had seen one report and I hate to reference one report when I've seen a you know a dozen
00:22:45
reports on it and this this line item is only in the one report. There is a report out there that says
00:22:52
that they they may have gone to a movie that night >> and that somebody's following them
00:22:59
>> possibly. But again, like I said, the other 11 reports out of the dozen mention nothing of a movie and say that
00:23:07
they were they that they were winding down. It was it was later in the evening on a Friday night. She was in her room
00:23:15
and she was doing something that was a hobby of hers. I want to say it was reading, but I don't think it I don't
00:23:20
think she was reading. He Virgil was in their sitting room and he was listening to a radio program. I believe
00:23:27
>> I heard he was listening to the original true crime garage >> and he's attacked through the window,
00:23:33
shot through the window while sitting in his his chair. I don't know. I as you could make an argument and you could
00:23:41
probably sway me into believing that they're not all connected and that maybe the first one's different than the other
00:23:48
three, the last one's different than the other three, >> right? You could sway me if you if you
00:23:53
if if you sat me down and talked to me long enough, I could be convinced. But I sit here in front of you here today in
00:24:00
the garage and I think they're all connected. I I think that they're all connected. One thing that I found really
00:24:06
interesting, uh, keeping that it's 1946 in mind at all times, we talked about evidence, remember the flashlight? The
00:24:15
police called for the public to report anyone who owned a flashlight like like the one that was found at the Starks
00:24:22
murder scene. And they they put a picture of that flashlight in the newspaper. So, they're hoping to get
00:24:33
somebody to call in saying either I know somebody that owns a flashlight similar to that or or or I
00:24:40
have some knowledge of a flashlight similar to that. It was from my understanding in the newspaper, the Tex
00:24:47
Arcana Gazette because of the importance of that piece of evidence and trying to
00:24:52
identify the person connected to that flashlight. It was the first colored photograph, the first color photograph
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[music] >> All right, we are back. You silly little monkeys. [music] Tall can hands in the air. Cheers to
00:28:10
you, Colonel. Monkey see, monkey do. Monkey pee all over you. >> I think it's cuz you said banana made me
00:28:18
think of [laughter] >> Let's try to keep it sophisticated. Get your potassium, people.
00:28:24
>> What do you What's your gut tell you here, Captain? Do you think they're connected?
00:28:28
>> Yeah, because of the brutality. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I think it would be strange if not I
00:28:34
mean I I think you could make a a better argument that the last attack wasn't cuz
00:28:39
you got a different caliber gun and location. And also, it's just the the the fabric of of that crime is a little
00:28:48
different than the others. you and you would have some people push back and say, "Ah, but the flashlight, well, it's
00:28:54
also late at night. A flashlight would make sense. It would be more odd that the attacker connected or otherwise
00:29:01
didn't have a flashlight. I mean, you're out in the sticks." Well, here's why I wonder. The killer maybe realized this
00:29:09
lover's lane type attack. He wasn't able to fully do whatever he was setting out to
00:29:19
do in his sick fantasy. So instead of trying to attack somebody that's by their vehicle out in the open,
00:29:30
let me try to attack a couple. And and that's what I also wonder too is is the is there being multiple people
00:29:39
there being a a threat and then the prize I'm trying to think like the sicko, right? The the threat is the man,
00:29:49
the prize is the woman. Is that part of this whole killer's DNA? I mean, it's it's
00:29:57
absurd to me. We know per the reports that there was a sexual assault in at least two of the first three attacks in
00:30:06
this fourth attack. He's unable to get to the woman. So, we don't know if there would
00:30:13
have been one had he been able to get inside the home before she could make it to the neighbor's house. I think that
00:30:19
that is is probably a big part of it. Again, like I said at at the beginning of part one, I have a lot of thoughts on
00:30:29
this this killer here, and we we'll get I want to get into those here in just a bit. But beforehand, I think we should
00:30:37
talk about some of the known suspects or or the people that have been speculated about
00:30:43
over the years, and there's been a lot of them. In fact, there are some some writeups out there that say that there
00:30:49
there were 200 suspects or there over the years or there had been hundreds of people interviewed over the years. There
00:30:58
is one that we didn't talk about. Well, there's several that have been named in the news and online that we didn't talk
00:31:06
about in our first episode. The first one is a unnamed suspect. Like if you go to most websites, this suspect is listed
00:31:17
but not named. And forgive me Oklahoma if I get this name wrong, but it says Atoa County suspect is is what this man
00:31:26
is often referred to as. It says on May 10th in Atoa, Oklahoma, a man assaulted a woman in her home, ranting that he
00:31:34
might as well kill her because he had already killed three or four people and that he was going to rape her. He then
00:31:41
fled the scene. A widespread search for the man included 20 officers and 160 residents. Two days later, police
00:31:51
arrested a suspect but did not believe this man was the phantom killer. According to the man's story, he could
00:31:58
not have been in Tex Arcana at the time of the Starks murder. So, if this guy is
00:32:04
the Phantom, it sounds like he had an alibi for the time he wasn't even in Tex Arcana. they could prove he wasn't in
00:32:10
Tex Arcana at the time of the Starks murder. So he he could be the Phantom, but did not kill
00:32:15
>> Mr. Starks. Now, >> this man's always unnamed. I'll tell you his name. It's Charles A. Coleman.
00:32:22
>> He went on to make a bunch of grills. >> Well, yeah. And and little else is known
00:32:27
about him as far as I I could find, but I was able to dig >> deep enough to find his actual name.
00:32:36
Charles A. Coleman was considered a suspect at one time, but again, police did interview this man. He did speak
00:32:43
with this man. Um, and they arrested him, but do not believe that he was the Phantom. Yeah, but that would also make
00:32:51
some sense if he was okay. I have this weird fantasy or strategy or whatever and I have the threat and I have the
00:33:02
prize. But hey, let me just start trying to find victims that don't have the threat. the better known suspects. And I
00:33:11
do want to I need to go out of my way and point something out here because oftentimes, especially in these serial
00:33:16
unsolved serial killer cases, there's a there's several talked about suspects over the years. This doesn't because the
00:33:26
ones we're choosing to present to you here today in the garage doesn't mean that there are suspects. It's just we're
00:33:33
trying to be thorough in our coverage of this true crime story. Yeah, we got this
00:33:38
great email from a a very informed listener. She just wasn't informed on the idea that the case that we were
00:33:45
talking about, we were bringing up other people's suspects and then dissecting them. We weren't just bringing them up
00:33:52
cuz we thought those were our opinions of who the best suspects were. Well, it's some sometimes we bring up suspects
00:34:01
that are not mentioned in other uh forums, but uh you know, that's part of the gig here. So,
00:34:09
Yol Sweeney is one who's been talked about quite a bit. He is somebody that we examined in our very first episode,
00:34:17
which was titled The Phantom Killer. Yel Sweeney was a 29-year-old career criminal. I mean, he had been in
00:34:24
trouble for counterfeiting, for theft, for car theft. >> Big loser. Uh, he was arrested in the
00:34:33
summer, so in July after the killings stopped, and we'll circle back to the killings stopping. So, keep in mind,
00:34:40
like you have about a 10-week time period with these four different attacks that result in five people being killed.
00:34:50
And in each attack, the the masked gunman is attacking a couple. So, eight people in total with resulting in five
00:35:01
deaths. Now, a big part of this equation, the big giant question mark here beyond
00:35:10
who was the phantom is, well, why did he stop? So, this Yule Sweeney character was arrested in July. And in fact, he
00:35:20
was arrested by one of the investigating officers in the Phantom case. Now, keep
00:35:24
in mind, anybody with a connection to Tex Arcana that was in law enforcement was investigating the Phantom case.
00:35:32
Okay? Anyway, he's arrested for car theft and the arresting officer said that Sweeney made some incriminating
00:35:41
statement of, "Well, I'm I'll be going to prison for life this time." making him think that he was the phantom
00:35:49
killer, >> right? Because it would be a very harsh sentence for stealing a car. >> Yes and no. Remind me to get back to
00:35:57
that. So, the first part of this that makes it feel like he might be the guy a guy that steals cars
00:36:07
would have an advantage, right? Arriving at these scenes in a car that doesn't belong to him, that can't be traced back
00:36:14
to him. We what do we know about the phantom? He wears a mask to cover his face. He he is taking efforts
00:36:22
to conceal his identity, to hide his identity. So this the boosting of cars and stealing the cars and using them in
00:36:30
the commission of these murders would make a lot of sense to me. his wife Peggy, according to the police,
00:36:37
independently made some confessions in which she incriminates her husband, saying that he's the phantom killer,
00:36:45
>> but she might have just hated her husband. >> I don't know how far down the road you
00:36:50
want me to go on this one. I know I talked about Yule Sweeney in depth and and and took a hard look at him in our
00:36:57
first episode. Since then, in reviewing some of the information about the wife, his wife Peggy, I don't think that she
00:37:05
was upset with him. I I worry that they coerced the confession out of her. I worry that they turn the screws on her
00:37:14
and she confessed to something that wasn't factual. >> Now, back look, it's a lot easier to get
00:37:20
somebody to turn on somebody else than to turn on yourself. And some [snorts] of these investigators went to their
00:37:27
grave believing that Sweeney was the phantom killer. And I'm not trying to dis diminish their work. If I think you
00:37:37
have to leave him on the table because of the good work that those investigators did on this case. Whether
00:37:42
her confession was pulled out of her, real or otherwise, I can't say. I it feels like they were turning the screws
00:37:51
on her to get her to confess to something that might not be the truth. In regard to Sweeney saying something to
00:37:58
the effect of, "Well, I'm going to prison for life this time." Keep in mind, he's a career criminal. He was a
00:38:05
habitual offender. They do have the habitual offender sentencing. >> He did. So, he he pleads guilty. He he
00:38:15
has a a plea bargain that he works out, but the plea bargain is for life in prison. A lot of people will point to
00:38:22
that and say, "Well, he did that to avoid the death penalty for the murders, and so justice was never carried out
00:38:31
here." >> Right? >> So, he he he actually agreed to a no contest plea to a habitual offender
00:38:40
charge. This did lend land land him in prison with a life sentence. He always said he never was the phantom. He said
00:38:49
he never killed anybody. And in fact, he he didn't he didn't serve the rest of his days in prison. I
00:38:56
believe he got out sometime in the '9s, in the early 90s. I don't think he's as good as the the next suspect. And Yule
00:39:04
Sweeney and Dudy Tennyson are the two that are discussed the most when it comes to this case. In fact, when we did
00:39:11
our very first episode, we one, we didn't think anybody would listen, >> but what did happen is some people
00:39:19
listen. >> Yeah. But out of those three people, Captain Well, we have no clue how many
00:39:25
people listen to be honest with you. But out of those three people, one of them was a person that is very much in the
00:39:33
Sweeney is guilty camp and one of them is very much in the Tennyson is guilty camp. Just like the whether these all
00:39:41
these attacks are connected or not, if you sit me down long enough and give me a nice PowerPoint presentation on
00:39:47
Sweeney or Tennyson, I think I could be talked into either one of these guys. >> Yeah.
00:39:52
>> But Tennyson is >> Strong Bourbon. >> Strange because so Henry Booker Tennyson, he went by the nickname of
00:39:59
Duty. He was only 18 years old when he killed himself. So, he dies by suicide in November of 1947.
00:40:09
I think I need to double check this. My notes say 1948 here, but Captain, I think it was actually 1947. Keep in
00:40:16
mind, all these attacks took place in 1946. The part that makes him interesting is he leaves behind
00:40:25
a suicide note. This note leads the people who find it to other information. He left another note and and his suicide
00:40:34
note leads them to a lock box. Inside this lock box, they find a a pen, like a ballpoint pen, and someone had unscrewed
00:40:44
it and put rolled up a note and put it inside that pen. >> And on that note, clever mystery, he's
00:40:52
confessing to some of the attacks, to the murders. They find this note and I believe the
00:41:00
note said something to the effect of, "I'm guilty of two double murders and the Starks attack or the murder of Mr.
00:41:10
Starks." >> Right? So duty would have been, if my notes are correct, he would have been
00:41:15
what, 17 at the time of the murders. And he would have been similar in age to some of our victims that we've
00:41:23
discussed. Again, a little bit of a loner, jealous of the guys taking the girls to the lover's lane.
00:41:29
>> Investigators say they were unable to find any concrete evidence linking Duty
00:41:35
Tennyson to the murders beyond that the notes that he left behind, >> the signed confession.
00:41:41
>> So, James Freeman and some reports states he's a close friend of Duty Tennyson. Other reports state he was a
00:41:48
cousin and friend. So, I guess both could be true. But James Freeman provided an alibi for Duty Tennyson
00:41:56
saying for at least one of the attacks saying that, "Hey, I Dudy, my friend Dudy could not have been the murderer
00:42:03
because I remember the night that the Starks were killed or Virgil Starks was killed that we were hanging out together
00:42:12
playing cards and in fact we heard the news come over the radio. I was with him when we heard the news come over the
00:42:19
radio that night." I'm sure knowing the captain's history and talking cases with
00:42:24
him long enough that that alibi seems a little flimsy, right? Good friend who just says, "Oh yeah, we were playing
00:42:30
cards that night. Nobody else saw." >> Sure. >> Duty Tennyson. >> Sure. Then I'd start questioning him.
00:42:36
Were you involved? Was there two people? I his family, Henry Booker, Tennyson's family were
00:42:45
concerned and rightfully so, saying, you know, we're worried that our son, our loved one, was extremely mentally ill at
00:42:54
the time of his suicide. They have no answer for why he would confess to something that they strongly believe
00:43:01
that he did not do. You want to hear something funny here, Captain? So, if you look up there's a there is this tiny
00:43:09
little website, Did Duty Do It? >> Oh, that's a great title. >> Did Duty do it? And they list several
00:43:18
links that you can go to. Um, I think it's to bolster their argument that he did. I I I I don't know if if they're
00:43:26
trying to say he did it or didn't do it. There's several links here where you can
00:43:32
there's a video presentation by John Tennyson MD. >> Oh yeah. >> This Yeah, this site is run by John
00:43:41
Tennyson MD. It has not been updated in a long time, but it has a link to our 2015 podcast which discusses Duty
00:43:51
Tennyson. Now, if you click on the link, obviously it's a broken link because it's it's uh the link is very old. I
00:43:58
think if I had to go off of memory in that first episode, I seem to be leaning towards Sweeney. You were leaning
00:44:05
towards Dudy. He's a very interesting one to ponder because I've seen some reports. So, he worked at the I believe
00:44:14
he worked at the Paramount movie theater in downtown Tex Arcana. And some people have suggested that that
00:44:22
what separates Dudy Tennyson from some of the other named suspects is that he knew several of the victims.
00:44:29
>> Yeah. Because he would know a lot of the people coming to see movies. And then
00:44:34
again, >> well, he went to high school with some of them as well. >> Yeah. But here's the thing about the
00:44:39
fourth attack. Is it possible that he writes this note, he folds it up, puts it in his pen, maybe he forgets about
00:44:48
it, you know, he he's going through a a some kind of mental break, and then obviously you're attacking individuals,
00:44:56
so that's going to cause more mental [ __ ] going on in your head. But we have this couple that might have went to the
00:45:05
movies that night that they're attacked. Then the kid kills himself, but he never
00:45:11
alters the note. So he still could be responsible for all four attacks. >> That doesn't work because he in his
00:45:19
suicide note, that's what led them to the note inside of the ballpoint pen. >> He he gave instructions in his suicide
00:45:26
note to go look for this other, >> right? Okay. >> We do know in the first attack that that
00:45:31
couple, the couple that survived, they were coming home from the movies that night and they had gone to the Paramount
00:45:36
movie theater. Well, and the one girl was playing at the theater. Was the theater different than the movie
00:45:40
theater? >> Yes. But he has a connection to the saxophone player. The saxophone player
00:45:46
was Mary Joe Booker. Uh Dudy played trombone in the same high school band as Booker. And it says here, "But they were
00:45:54
not friends. Investigators were unable to find any other evidence linking Tennyson to the murders."
00:45:59
>> Yeah, I don't think there was much evidence that Dudy had many friends. This is a better description and a more
00:46:04
concise description here. Um, Henry Booker Dudy Tennyson. So, yes, it wasn't until 1948 that that he killed himself.
00:46:13
So, he was 18 at the time and he was born in February of 1930. The attacks occurred in February of
00:46:22
1946. A big change in Dudy's life would be getting a driver's license at 16. I can't confirm that he did, but it would
00:46:30
make sense that he got his driver's license at 16 and starting in February of 1946 when the attack started. He's
00:46:37
working, let's say he's working at the movie theater, he's got a a vehicle or access to a vehicle. He can he can be
00:46:44
out driving and now he has his wheels to get to these attacks and commit these attacks. That makes a lot of sense to
00:46:50
me. The same time that he starts would be able to start driving. So this this says Henry Booker Dudy Tennyson was
00:46:57
18year-old an 18-year-old university freshman who committed suicide at using mercury cyanide poisoning on November
00:47:05
4th 1948 leaving behind cryptic instructions which directed instructor investigators to a suicide note in which
00:47:13
Tennyson confessed to being the phantom killer from Tex Arcana killing Betty Joe
00:47:18
Booker Paul Martin and Virgil Starks and attempting to murder Mrs. Katie Starks.
00:47:25
And then this also states that he was in the same high school band as Mary Joe Booker. So there this guy there's
00:47:32
connections to him. The the one problem I have is I go back to the first attack and if you're convinced that they are
00:47:40
connected. The one part of the description of the asalent that the two agreed upon was they mentioned that he
00:47:48
was like 30. They believed him to be 30 years old. I would like to see what was the the the physical build of Dudy
00:47:56
Tennyson. Does he does he make that six-foot mark where the the first case they said well the guy was 6 foot he was
00:48:05
athletically built or thin and we believed that he was >> 30 years old or approximately 30 years
00:48:13
old. >> But here's the thing though. >> But why did he continue to kill? Right? So he goes off to university. I believe
00:48:19
he went to I can't remember what school he goes off to, but he goes off to college and then kills himself there in
00:48:26
November of 48. >> So he would have still been in school and high school in Tex Arcana. He went
00:48:34
to Tex Arcana Arkansas High School. He graduated class of 48. Why wasn't he still killing between May of 46 and when
00:48:43
he leaves for college after the summer of 48? Well, that confession note, the suicide confession note, that might not
00:48:52
be the totality of his crimes. That just might be the totality of the crimes he wants to emit to. That's true. We did
00:49:01
say earlier when did the Phantom actually stop? And if he did stop, why did he die? Did
00:49:09
he move away? Was he apprehended for some other crime? Or if it were to be Duty Tennyson, did he just stop? Or did
00:49:17
it did his conscience conscience take grasp on him and or he grew a soul all of a sudden or grew up and decided
00:49:25
learned that you can't kill people? >> Yeah. Or I mean, we've again, we've seen some people
00:49:32
>> kill people and they don't they don't care. There's no remorse. They're just evil. They're the devil. And then
00:49:38
there's other ones they're the devil, too. They know they're the devil, but they hate themselves for it. And to me,
00:49:45
he would be the latter of that. >> The the other part of this though could be if he thought he was very close to
00:49:52
being caught, >> it might have inspired him to stop or take a break, right? Because if it was
00:50:00
Tennyson, who's to say that he wouldn't, had he not committed suicide, go back to
00:50:06
killing in 49 or 50 or later? Now, as far as homicides go, we can I think we can say pretty conclusively that the
00:50:15
killer, the phantom killer, as far as Tex Arcana is concerned, did either stop or moved away and and chose a different
00:50:23
hunting ground. As far as when did the killer stop? Let me just say what uh I'm thinking right now. It goes back to what
00:50:31
I was saying, the jealousy. Well, guess who would be also very jealous? If you work at If you worked as a young teen in
00:50:41
high school, not a lot of friends, kind of kind of in Lonerville, and you work at a movie theater,
00:50:50
and you see these couples coming in on dates, and that would just fuel your fire.
00:50:56
>> Did he have access to a gun or guns? >> Did he have access to a vehicle? But do
00:51:04
we know that? That's I wouldn't say it so definitively without without having proof of that. I mean, it seems
00:51:10
reasonable that he probably had access to guns, but it's Texas. Everybody has guns.
00:51:16
>> Well, technically it's Arkansas. >> Well, it's so damn close. It's one in the same. [laughter]
00:51:22
Come on. >> Uh, so there people had always wondered when the Phantom stopped. This is from
00:51:30
this is from November 10th, 1947 from the Waco News Tribune and the headline is return of Tex Arcana Phantom
00:51:40
feared as man woman beaten officer also shot as violence flares in city. Okay, so we need to point out here the officer
00:51:51
shot is a different is not related to the the man and the woman who were beaten. But listen to this report here.
00:51:59
A 42year-old Tex Arcana Lumber Company employee was near death and his attractive 31-year-old
00:52:07
woman companion was in serious condition Sunday night. That's interesting. It happened on a weekend after they had
00:52:15
been attacked by a masked man wielding a ballpeen hammer. And authorities fear the phantom killer who left five victims
00:52:24
during a three-month killing spree last year had resumed his work. The masked man assaulted Meek Wilborn and Mrs.
00:52:33
Grace Evans early Sunday morning. When the attack ended after the two victims had been struck time and time
00:52:43
again, Wilbourne was in critical condition with brain injuries and Mrs. Evans was suffering from a skull
00:52:49
fracture. Mrs. Evans told police the man was an African-American male attempted to rape her after beating Wellborn into
00:52:59
unconsciousness. Her description of the asalent Tex Arcana police said was strikingly
00:53:05
similar to that of the phantom killer hunted since February of 1946 when he took the life of his first victim. So,
00:53:14
there's a there's a problem with their write up right there. He didn't take his first victim in 19 in in February of 46.
00:53:20
Mrs. Evans said the hammer wielder wore a white mask with holes cut out at the eyes. Police said the Phantom Killer
00:53:28
wore a similar garb. Mrs. Evans said that the African-American male demanded money and
00:53:37
started the attack when Wilbourne refused to hand over his cash. Police say robbery may have been a partial
00:53:45
motive for the phantom slayer. We also don't know if this attacker was ever apprehended. He they very likely could
00:53:52
have found the the person responsible for this, >> right? It's just but that doesn't oh
00:53:59
this guy's not the phantom. That doesn't make headlines. What makes headlines is
00:54:03
oh the the police are worried that the Tex Arcana Phantom has returned or has resumed his work as they say. And if
00:54:10
you're a writer, it's like, okay, well, maybe this isn't connected, but I'll throw this in. I'll throw these couple
00:54:15
phrases in and it'll sell some more newspapers. Well, before we wrap, again, back to the idea of these four attacks.
00:54:24
Do you think because I think they're connected. I think they were all committed by the
00:54:28
same individual. >> Yeah, I I think it's it's most likely the case. I mean, especially when you
00:54:36
talk about one set of couple went to a movie theater, another set is coming from a
00:54:43
theater, not a movie theater, but it's probably in similar similar location. It's not a giant town. And then you have
00:54:53
the other the last victims that possibly were at a movie theater. There's just some weird similarities. And also, like
00:54:59
I said, I think there's something to this uh there's something to the attacks because they're couples because there's
00:55:07
a threat and then there's a prize. So, I think yeah, I think it's more likely that they're connected. I I think that
00:55:16
they are connected by the nature of the crimes, uh by the nature of the attacks and the weapons and tools used to carry
00:55:24
them out. Now, as far as the theater or theaters go, I don't think that has I think that has little to do with any of
00:55:31
it. I think that the city was in fact big enough. I don't know that she was even playing at a theater. It It may
00:55:37
have been a dance hall. It may have been a church. Um I would want to look into that a little bit more. I'm not saying
00:55:44
you're wrong. There could be there could be something there. But what is there is
00:55:50
the first three attacks. They're parked. They're all parked in like lovers lanes.
00:55:56
That's that's your connection. Not a theater or person's coming from this spot or that spot. To me, it's to me
00:56:04
again it goes back to if I'm looking for a young female victim on a Friday, Saturday night, and I live in this town
00:56:13
of 40,000 people, the city of 40,000 people. I know that that young folks go and park at these locations. All I have
00:56:23
to do is hop in my car and drive to them and see if I see a car. I'm not going to
00:56:29
find two 40 year olds in that car. I don't think that I'm going to. I think I'm going to find some younger folks in
00:56:34
that car. I'm going to park a distance away late enough at night and make sure that I think that I'm going to be the
00:56:41
only one. It's going to be the three of us. me, the Phantom, and my two victims in the spot at this time of night.
00:56:50
>> But one of the things I like about duty is that if you have a teenager that's
00:56:55
working, especially something like a movie theater, the the different times he probably have to work a little bit
00:57:02
later and and maybe wouldn't you wouldn't have a clear indication of when he was at
00:57:09
work or when he got off work. Well, to to take that a little bit further, it it stands to reason working in a movie
00:57:18
theater that he would be getting off late at night on the weekends pretty frequently. And so he we can we can put
00:57:25
together very quickly that he might be leaving the movie theater not too long after the folks that attended the movies
00:57:32
are leaving. So that would that would line up nicely for duty. >> I just stop by Lover's Lane before I
00:57:38
head home. Duty makes sense for a couple reasons. I feel like when I review if I
00:57:43
if I if I review the first attack by itself, there are things to suggest that it's an inexperienced
00:57:53
attacker, that it's a younger attacker. There's a lot of psychology in there, and I don't want to go too far down that
00:58:00
road today, but there's a lot of psychology there. part one with the I don't want to go too far down the road
00:58:06
because I don't know if the killer was scared off, right? That changes everything about that scene. If the
00:58:12
killer chose to leave after the assault or if the killer was scared off, we don't know what what he was going to do,
00:58:19
how far he was going to take things that night. And a lot of times this leading all the way up to almost a murder, this
00:58:27
sexual assault that's not a rape in the traditional sense, uh that the a tool was used, the gun was used, that is
00:58:38
suggestive and very similar to crimes that we've seen committed by younger a younger offender. Okay? But I don't see
00:58:46
that. I don't see a younger offender. And here's why. I feel like we're talking about somebody that is, as the
00:58:54
witnesses, as the survivors described, they thought he was 40. They thought he was 30 years old. And I feel like
00:59:02
there's a certain level of confidence >> as to what this guy is doing that is also suggestive of uh an older killer.
00:59:12
And when I say older, I mean older than 16, >> somebody that has a little more life
00:59:16
experience. And you said it right there, older than the age of the victims. And so you might not know
00:59:24
how old the guy is, but especially during that time, 30 would have been, "Oh, that's an old man." So, but when
00:59:32
these younger victims are saying, "Well, I'm placing him at an age older than me," then duty doesn't make a lot of
00:59:40
sense. But to close us out, do you have a small list of other suspects that we don't
00:59:48
have to dive into, but just some that have popped up since we covered it last? >> There's been others that have been
00:59:56
named, but very quickly you look into them and there's nothing there. So, I don't even know why they are named.
01:00:01
Like, it's like, "Oh, we interviewed this guy and it wasn't him." Or this guy, people were suspicious of him, but
01:00:06
uh police talked to him. And so those ones go nowhere real quick. Where I would prefer to spend my time here
01:00:14
wrapping this up is I had said that I that I had a lot of thoughts about this guy and it goes back to what I had just
01:00:21
said where I think there's a certain level of confidence there that requires an older person with more life
01:00:27
experience. Again, the first survivors say that they believe he was approximately 30 years old. Keep in
01:00:34
mind, Jimmy Hollis, who was the first male who was attacked and survived, was 25 years old at the time. He's not a
01:00:41
16-year-old boy saying it was an older guy. This is a 25year-old dude who was in close enough contact with the Phantom
01:00:49
Killer that he was struck in the head twice with the butt of a gun. >> Right. >> And it's him and it's the and it's his
01:00:56
19-year-old girlfriend that are saying they believe the attacker to be 30 years old. And now what I what I often do with
01:01:04
these is again I think that these attacks are connected and I think that there is a
01:01:14
evolution to these attacks. The first three happening in parked cars that's no mistake. That's where the killer that's
01:01:21
where the attacker went to go look for victims. Okay. The the fourth one being in a farmhouse, I don't think it had
01:01:28
anything to do with Mr. or Mrs. Starks. I think it had everything to do with what was going on in Tex Arcana at the
01:01:36
time. There's a killer on the street who's killing teenagers parked in cars. Guess what? We have this thing now. We
01:01:41
put in a curfew. So, there's not many people parked in their cars on the streets anymore. You have to be inside
01:01:47
because the Phantom Killer gave us a curfew. >> And then take So, he he needs to get off
01:01:53
the streets. And then number two, another thing that was happening is there was everybody was turning into a
01:02:01
vigilante at the time. Everybody wanted to catch or kill the phantom killer. So you had people that were sitting in
01:02:07
parked cars armed with guns waiting for the killer to approach them so they could so they could apprehend him or
01:02:15
kill him. That was something that was regularly happening in those weeks. I think that he killed went to the
01:02:22
farmhouse. He went to a house instead of a car out of necessity because of what was going on, what what he had started
01:02:29
inside of Texas Tex Arcana. >> Well, no, that makes a lot of sense because the Lover's Lane are kind of
01:02:36
remote. So, he went to a more remote house. >> Yes, >> if that makes sense. >> And I How many shows have we done? Over
01:02:46
800. You never hear me say this. You never hear me say this. So, I think that it should add a little weight to it. For
01:02:53
some reason, I think this guy might be >> finally tell me he loves me. >> I think this guy might be law
01:02:57
enforcement or have a law enforcement background. I There's something with with the gun and the flashlight with the
01:03:04
with the way that he commands everybody. Here's the reason why. There's something
01:03:08
he has a confidence level at these different scenes. He doesn't seem to be rushed or in a hurry, right? He he he's
01:03:18
he's operating out in the open. Anybody could drive by, but he doesn't seem to be so concerned about that, right? Like
01:03:26
that's where he's going to find his victims. Maybe he knows Tex Arcana. There ain't too many police out running
01:03:33
around at at midnight on a Saturday. Maybe he knows that. Or maybe this is my his territory. I don't know. I I don't
01:03:42
want to go too far down that road either, but there's there's a hint of that there. But oftent times when you
01:03:48
the thing that I do enjoy about these serial [snorts] cases that are different from oneoffs is it gives you more of the
01:03:58
work to look at. And so you get a better I think you can get a better understanding of the monster if you if
01:04:05
you attempt to look at the monster and examine the monster. And the first things that I ask when attempting to
01:04:14
examine these monsters is what is it? What does it do? What is its nature? I think this guy is a violator. I think
01:04:23
what he does, he's a violator, which is there's also a ridiculously great 1990 album by Depeesh Mode, but that's
01:04:30
neither here nor there. So, what is it? What does it do? What is its nature? This guy is a violator, not just a
01:04:37
killer. If he only wanted to kill, he would just walk up on the vehicle and shoot Zodiac style. Zodiac was a killer
01:04:45
and a terrorist. Our guy here is a violator. He wants to violate your space. He wants to violate your vehicle.
01:04:52
and then he'll go violate your house. He most certainly enjoyed the terror that it was causing because he was but he
01:05:01
wasn't going to make any threats. He doesn't threaten to kill. He kills. He goes to violate. That's his thrill. Then
01:05:08
he kills. He violates the victims. He controls the man. He humiliates him in front of his woman. And then he violates
01:05:16
the female. And he kills because it's the ultimate win. It's the best getaway clean.
01:05:22
>> But maybe this is also why they didn't release much information about the the
01:05:27
footprint. Is it a bootprint? Is it a would that print lead people to look into law
01:05:36
enforcement? Well, and then the double homicide turns in turn violates the city, its people, and its police. And he
01:05:46
loves it. To him, there's nothing better. I also think that this is very much about the gun.
01:05:52
So much about the gun. The gun is like an extension of himself, maybe the best part of himself because it allows him to
01:05:59
do what he loves most, control and violate. He doesn't need to wear a mask because he he needs no face. He needs no
01:06:09
face for them to see. In those moments, he's more than a man. He's something else entirely. He is what he always
01:06:16
wanted to be. and as he believes what he deserves to be. But I think he's absolutely local and I think the victims
01:06:23
from the first attack were right. The guy was in his mid to late 20s, maybe 30 years old.
01:06:30
And the thing with the law enforcement again, he seems confident and fine being out there at night, but we have multiple
01:06:38
jurisdictions and then he's controlling these victims. I I think he's local because of the mask and I think he knows
01:06:45
this area well and I think that the changing of the gun is significant too. I think that he thought well if I'm
01:06:56
going to have to go to a house to violate and kill where before I was going to cars but because the scenery
01:07:03
the landscape has changed and I have to go to a house now I might as well switch
01:07:07
up the gun. He doesn't want them to know that it's connected. He's not like the Zodiac that's telling you, "Oh, I did
01:07:14
all this, that these are all my crimes. He doesn't care. He's not a terrorist like the Zodiac is." The Zodiac
01:07:21
threatens. This guy doesn't threaten. This guy just kills. >> And I think it's the violation part of
01:07:27
the act that gets him to go out and do it again and again. Why did he stop? I don't know.
01:07:35
But this one reminds me very much of a crime that series of crimes that didn't involve a gun at all. Remember our
01:07:43
Aurora hammer slayer killer? >> He was going into homes with a hammer and he was taking out everybody in that
01:07:52
house and his crimes were sexually motivated as well. When we reviewed it, when we reviewed it, we couldn't figure
01:08:00
out for the life of us why the guy stopped. Well, he stopped because he he was picked up in another state like two
01:08:08
weeks after the murder stopped in Aurora. He's picked up and he's locked up for for decades. And then then the
01:08:16
golden age of crimeolving DNA happens and we figure out who the hammer slayer was.
01:08:22
>> And it doesn't have to be a law enforcement officer from Tex Arcana. It could just be from a neighboring town or
01:08:30
county. >> Yeah, he's local on some level. I feel very confident in that. The law
01:08:34
enforcement part of it, who's to say? That's hard to say. I wouldn't put I wouldn't put my stamp on that one for
01:08:40
sure, but I feel absolutely very strong that he's local. And I think that I think that look and with Tennyson,
01:08:50
okay, so he says that he was the Phantom Killer in his suicide notes. It would not be the first nor the last time that
01:08:55
somebody tries to make a spectacle out of their suicide. Whether he was the Phantom Killer or not, Dudy Tennyson's
01:09:01
name lives on in the history books >> and will so forever. They're not going to solve the Phantom Killer. We're never
01:09:08
going to learn who the Phantom Killer was. >> And we understand that Dudy had some
01:09:13
mental illness. I mean, that's why he took his own life. And so is there a possibility that he was having some kind
01:09:22
of breakdown and just thought he did thought he was the killer? Cuz I don't think there's really
01:09:30
any I don't think there's anything in that suicide note or the confession that would be evidence that only the
01:09:39
killer would know. >> Exactly. In fact, you have the investigators saying the exact opposite
01:09:45
of that, saying, "We we looked and we looked and we looked and we couldn't find any evidence linking this poor
01:09:51
young man who took his own life to these crimes other than this confession that he left after his suicide. We can't find
01:09:59
anything." Now, he is interesting and will remain interesting for a long time because he does have connections and
01:10:05
personal ties to some of the victims, but I just feel like he was too young, too inexperienced. I feel like we're
01:10:12
dealing with a confident killer who has other motivations, and something just keeps [music] telling me this guy went
01:10:22
to another location and got picked up for something else. [music] The devil's going to get you in your
01:10:32
sleep. [music] [music] >> You could be anywhere, but you're here with us and we thank you so much. Thank
01:10:42
you for joining us here in the garage each and every week. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the
01:10:48
beautiful listeners? >> I am very, very happy to be recommending this one this week. It is called, this
01:10:53
is one of the best true crime books in existence. That's right, I said it. It's called A Need to Kill by the great Mark
01:11:02
Pettit. And as far as I know, I believe this is Mark Pettit's only true crime book. Now, what's interesting about that
01:11:10
is I'm holding a copy of A Need to Kill in my hands right now. This is from 1990, back when you could buy a hardback
01:11:17
book for $16. The book is so good and tells the story so well that it has gone into print like
01:11:26
six times. Six different times. Sold a bunch of copies in the early 90s. I think like 80,000 copies. And so it's
01:11:34
gone to print six times. Here's the description. Two young boys were kidnapped and brutally murdered for no
01:11:40
apparent reason. The manhunt that followed lasted 116 days. The law men finally caught their man. He was no more
01:11:49
than a child himself. A young man obsessed with death, unable to distinguish between pain and pleasure.
01:11:56
Mark Pettit is the only reporter to talk with the killer. His name was John Juper, and he was executed not too long
01:12:05
after the crimes were committed. This is a case that that goes into the state of
01:12:11
Nebraska with two murders in 1983 and it has some ties to the Johnny Gosh investigation. Anybody that knows this
01:12:19
case or has read a need to kill will know that it has a lot of ties to the Johnny Gosh, still missing newspaper
01:12:26
boy. Uh, one of these victims unfortunately was it was out delivering newspapers when he was abducted by John
01:12:32
Juper. Again, that book is A Need to Kill by Mark Pettit. You don't need to write that title down now. No, because
01:12:39
you can go to trimerg.com, click on the recommended page, and you can see all of
01:12:43
our recommendations there. >> And while you're at true crimegar.com, treat yourself to some dopeass
01:12:50
merchandise. Until next week, >> be good, be kind, and don't live. Heat. Heat. [music]
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