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brand [Music] [Music] never welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking war
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put in your thoughts and your opinions check out our blog at true Crim garage.com captain that is enough of the
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business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music]
00:04:28
crime [Music] Monday August 7th 1972 16-year-old Janette dma told her mother she was going to go to her
00:05:13
friend's house to spend the afternoon the friend lived about 8 miles away and Janette did not yet have her
00:05:22
driver's license her mother offered to drive her but it was nice that day Janette
00:05:28
insisted on walking she left her home just shortly after 1:00 p.m. that day the plan a 3M
00:05:37
solo hike to the train station and then the train would drop her nearby her friend's
00:05:43
home while Janette was seen walking that day she never arrived at her friend's house nor did she
00:05:51
call it's believed that she never even made it to the train station she simply disappeared
00:06:01
on September 19th after Janette had been missing for 6 weeks and one day the discovery of a rotting human forearm LED
00:06:10
police and investigators to her body discovered in the woods badly decayed and resting on a cliff known as
00:06:19
the devil's teeth the coroner could find no signs of bullet or stab wounds after examining the body he could
00:06:29
provide the police and the dma family with no cause of death for Janette and the police could offer no
00:06:37
explanation as to why her body would be found in that location investigators suspected drugs
00:06:44
or strangulation her death was being treated as a homicide mainly because of where the body had been
00:06:53
found when the community needed answers the rumor mill began to generate stories
00:06:58
about Satanism and Witchcraft this only fueled more gossip how did this innocent teenage
00:07:07
girl die and if it was in fact murder who had killed her and who knew about this was she killed by a stranger that
00:07:17
saw her walking that day or was it a friend or maybe a boy she knew or was it the mafia or some kind of police cover
00:07:25
up this is a continued story of the bizarre death of 16-year-old Janette [Music]
00:07:45
dealma as everyone may remember from last week after they found janette's body the police were quick to identify
00:07:53
her however they could not offer anything conclusive as to how she had died or what the cause of death was it's
00:08:01
pretty obvious that the investigator suspected drugs early on statements from the investigators state that when they
00:08:08
located the body remember her pocketbook was found nearby obviously you check the
00:08:14
pockets of her pants and the pocketbook looking for identification maybe a driver's license school ID or even a
00:08:21
library card to tell you who this body May belong to but the investigators were also checking and looking for drugs on
00:08:29
her person or in that pocketbook or even evidence of possible drug use they suspected either a suicide or
00:08:38
possible accidental overdose from drugs they found no drugs and no evidence of drug use either they also didn't locate
00:08:47
any forms of identification on her putting a name to the body came later by the way of her dentist comparing x-rays
00:08:55
in her dental history more importantly L they would test the body for drugs these tests
00:09:03
provided no answers only more questions as there were no trace of drugs found in
00:09:07
the body they did however find a high level of lead came back in these tests so possible lead poisoning but I I don't
00:09:17
think that would explain why her body was found in the woods on top of a cliff also the amount of lead detected from
00:09:26
these tests shows a level that while it is quite High it is not a level that is high enough to
00:09:31
where you would commonly see death occur so what does this all mean well it certainly clears up one or two of the
00:09:40
what seems to be very likely possibilities when you look at this case from afar that being she didn't use drugs to
00:09:49
kill herself right and she didn't overdose on anything yeah at some party correct so that might put to an end the
00:09:58
possibility of her showing up at that BL at the blattis house dying from something you know drinking too much or
00:10:04
doing drugs and something happening to her so it couldn't have been an overdose now while we cannot fully determine if
00:10:13
she was or not at the blatus home that day this kind of clears that up in my opinion well it wouldn't be uncommon to
00:10:21
find a body that's been on a ground that is a Dumping Ground for construction to
00:10:26
have traces of lead because if they're dumping construction items they're dumping paint which would have lead in
00:10:34
it in 1972 yeah and you bring up a very good point because we have to keep in mind
00:10:41
that her body had been resting there for weeks before she was found and remember
00:10:46
we said that her body had sunk into the ground to the point that later a girl that knew her and had visited the site
00:10:54
just days after they removed janette's body from the devil's teeth right she's there she's saying that she could see
00:11:01
she could still see the outline or the impression that the body had made in the ground and janette's body was badly
00:11:08
decayed so bad to the point that some have said portions of her body and the clothing had become one could portions
00:11:15
of the body and the ground have done the same or did elements hiding in or making
00:11:21
up the ground below her seep into the body through osmosis or you know leaving high traces of lead later found in the
00:11:30
body through osmosis here's the thing though that that I don't think that they did Captain and and you're you're
00:11:36
exactly right I I wonder did they take soil samples of the area it doesn't appear that they did we can't find any
00:11:43
record of that right um but it's a it's a Dumping Ground for construction and and if you ask the people that are
00:11:51
dumping stuff what did you dump and they said well we use this paint which has lead in it and we dumped it into the
00:11:57
soil and then this body is found inches within the soil what is what is it going
00:12:02
to absorb mm that paint and what is that paint going to have in it lead so it's pretty easy I think to explain yeah yeah
00:12:10
I think they could have gone the extra mile and actually went back to the scene and maybe taken a soil sample yeah
00:12:16
couldn't have hurt the investigation uh in any direction at all but let's let's move you on because I think those are
00:12:23
all reasonable explanations why these high traces of lead were found in her body I want to move on to a possible
00:12:30
suspect here captain and this takes place about a month or so after janette's body was found now please keep
00:12:37
in mind by this time two things had already occurred in this case yeah the rumor mill was turning out whichcraft
00:12:45
stories and well and the second thing Captain is that the stories coming out in the newspaper were starting to taper
00:12:51
off so less information either coming out or being presented however you choose to look at it this is when a
00:12:59
young dude this is 21-year-old Terry Rael he goes to the police department and he tells them there is something
00:13:06
they should know about where janette's body was found he tells them that where she was found is right by where someone
00:13:13
lives Terry told the detective about a homeless man that made part of the woods that is fairly close to where the body
00:13:21
was found well this this homeless man he he made it his home you know he was staying there he wasn't homeless right
00:13:30
yeah I guess that's a contradiction right uh this patch of woods is is the home to this homeless man what's this
00:13:37
guy's name you know what Captain you you mentioned something that you said well he's not really homeless that makes me
00:13:42
think of an old uh George Carlin bit who who I miss dearly M when he was good friends yeah all very good friends we
00:13:50
used to go picnicking in the park and uh he said that uh George Carlin said that
00:13:56
there are no such thing as homeless people because because home is a state of mind what they what they are is
00:14:01
houseless right so I in good memory of my good picnicking friend George Carlin I will refer to this guy as houseless
00:14:09
right so this young man tells the police that some of the locals refer to this houseless man as red that he has a like
00:14:19
a shanty or a lean to or something that he's he's fabricated in the woods out here and he says that the man is called
00:14:27
red because of his long red hair and beard he's got a wild beard not uh kind of a hippie yeah looking guy yeah there
00:14:36
you go and this guy does work though he works um I don't know how much but according to the book that we've
00:14:44
referenced a few times the death at the devil's teeth he works several days a week at a local golf course you know
00:14:52
caddy Jack Looper you know well well so yeah so he's a caddy and he's working there for cash tips you
00:15:03
know sometimes you can make pretty good money doing that if the course is busy that day yeah or if you're not caddying
00:15:09
for the dolly Lama himself mhm this guy red seemed to be pretty resourceful as well you know we had said and mentioned
00:15:17
that he had fashioned himself some type of dwelling there in the woods well he would sleep and he would also cook meals
00:15:24
out there and I don't think anyone really reported anything on this guy than that he lived in the woods and he
00:15:31
caded at the golf course in town he's referenced in several different accounts of the investigation into janette's
00:15:39
murder but it looks like other than the caddy thing nothing else is really known
00:15:44
of this guy now the suspicion Falls because of the proximity from his dwelling and where the body was found to
00:15:51
further the suspicion it sounds like this guy read like he may have took off and left yeah which is a tricky thing
00:16:00
because when I think of houseless people uh I typically jump to the thought and conclusion that they're
00:16:08
nomadic you know moves around based off of need or or you know right but I but I
00:16:14
guess you know each is their own so maybe that doesn't work with everybody but well well let's get into this point
00:16:20
right because this is a big point of speculation yeah is we have this guy that's living in the woods that's where
00:16:27
she's found a lot of people think that maybe she was traveling or something and that she went into these Woods for
00:16:34
whatever reason and then he attacked her there like she has stumbled upon him at
00:16:39
night right yeah there's a few different theories regarding that but one thing I
00:16:43
want to one thing I want to clear up right here before we get into this too much Captain is okay so I have some
00:16:49
experience with this and and I'm sure lots of people out there do as do as well but back when I was doing Property
00:16:55
Management there was plenty of times that I would have to chase off a guy from time to time that was clearly just
00:17:00
squatting in a place that he found for a night or two and there's a there's a big
00:17:07
difference here this everything that we hear from the police regarding this red guy he seems to have been living there
00:17:15
it wasn't like he just found a place that he liked and he was going to stay for a few nights or a couple weeks this
00:17:21
seemed to be a setup that he had arranged and he was planning to stay there for quite some time the rumor
00:17:27
being is that he would show up in town stay at this place that he had set up in the woods and he would stay there
00:17:34
through the course of the golf season and then he would kind of disappear during the colder months and then he
00:17:38
would pop up again and he would stay in the same place yeah and he did this for multiple years so before we get into
00:17:44
this I just want to clear up that you know people are going to say suggest well maybe he was just staying there for
00:17:48
a couple nights that's not the case here the the thing is is how suspicious is it
00:17:53
that this guy took off because you got to wonder did he take off the there several rumors that either a he took off
00:18:01
shortly after Janette was murdered this would be in August of 72 B he took off shortly after her body
00:18:10
was found which would be in September of 72 now you have the maybe another possibility that it was shortly after
00:18:19
her body was found but once this report was given to the police this is in October of 72 they went out there in the
00:18:26
woods looking for red they found all of his stuff well we don't know if it's all
00:18:32
of his stuff but they found some of his things there and they saw what they suggested was evidence that he might
00:18:40
have left in a hurry like that there was food that he had prepared and just kind
00:18:43
of left it there that he didn't come back and collect any of these items it seems to me like he might I don't know
00:18:50
his setup that's hard that's hard to gauge here because if he's the kind of guy that he's just going to leave these
00:18:56
items behind and whatever happen happens to be left over when he gets back there
00:19:00
the following year he makes use of well what makes the most sense is let's go to
00:19:05
the golf course and let's say hey let's try to figure out when's the last time that red worked the problem with this
00:19:13
though was that the caddies are quote unquote subcontractors so they don't have like a
00:19:19
technical work schedule but I think if you interview the members of the golf course you could get a better timeline
00:19:26
because nobody really knows the schedule and it wouldn't be that crazy to think somebody living a nomadic life I mean he
00:19:33
comes into town multiple times throughout multiple years and then he goes off to work somewhere else MH you
00:19:42
don't know if he left a week before or two weeks before right so they need to they should have uh you know asked the
00:19:49
members of the golf course to try to get a smaller timeline yeah and what they did was they did go to the golf course
00:19:57
and like you said he a subcontractor or whatever you want to refer to it as it the golf course didn't know his real
00:20:04
name either they just referred to him as red as well he didn't he didn't work work for the golf course the the way
00:20:10
that I understand it to be is back then that these guys would just kind of show up
00:20:16
randomly from time to time and they would sit there and wait for a golfer to come up and say hey I need a caddy yeah
00:20:23
and then they would carry their bag and follow along and get tipped at the end of the at the end of the round so he
00:20:29
didn't you know he didn't in a sense work for the golf course and I think you're right that would have been an
00:20:34
interesting Avenue to take is to talk to the actual golfers because you know how
00:20:40
this thing works Captain some of these people when they I know nothing when they when they show up when these
00:20:46
golfers that are there time and time again they may ask for him by name right right you know somebody may know his
00:20:52
schedule or at least the last time they saw him or he caded for them well the the other speculation here is that you
00:21:00
know they find they find her body in the woods right mhm and then this guy hits the hits the road maybe it was just that
00:21:08
they found a body in the woods and that scared the the crap out of him if I'm living in the woods right mhm down by
00:21:17
the river um and they find a body you think I'm going to stay there I have standards of where I live when I'm
00:21:26
living in the woods I have standard and I can't be living in woods that they found a body in I love that cuz I think
00:21:32
you and I share the same feeling on this where you have the rumor that this guy left after having killed her like left
00:21:39
in August after having killed her she's not found until September you and I kind
00:21:44
of lean towards the possibility that maybe he was living there till closer to the time that they had found her or
00:21:50
maybe even afterwards well right but they did track this guy down yeah yeah they did and this is this is what what's
00:21:58
weird I don't know the particulars of how they tracked him down but they did identify him and they did eventually
00:22:05
speak with him so supposedly this guy R must have checked out because either they have nothing on him which could
00:22:13
just be the case or either through questioning or some other technique they let him go after having cleared him
00:22:22
several online reports of this case will say that the guy was cleared personally
00:22:26
I question that yeah but the the rumor mill is that red came from money and that when they went to uh look
00:22:34
into this guy as a suspect they ran into a situation where he came from a lot of
00:22:39
money filthy stinking rich and that is the reason why we have thoughts of there being a cover up that he was going to
00:22:48
lawyer up and they decided they couldn't fight the good fight and defeat this guy
00:22:53
in trial yeah or the people that he um his family was so powerful MH that they stopped the investigation anyways and
00:23:02
that's just a rumor right and but I would like to I would really like to explore why they cleared the guy because
00:23:09
I've seen online reports stating that he was cleared not that not that we just couldn't charge him with anything that
00:23:16
oh we checked into him and he checks out yeah but again this is a a weird time in
00:23:22
in history 72 so late' 60s 7s you have a lot of people uh living in Vans and traveling across the country and just
00:23:31
you know taking some time off to discover themselves MH and this guy could have came for money and said you
00:23:36
know I'm just going to live off the land and I'm going to caddy during the day and and he could have went to visit some
00:23:43
family or friends during this time where she went missing cuz like there's a six
00:23:48
week Gap right right no and well that's what I'm getting at though with if okay so if he supplies you with an alibi the
00:23:57
trouble that you run run into here is I'm guessing that if you cannot determine the cause of death then
00:24:04
determining the approximate time of death is way out of the question right so unless in some type of interview he
00:24:11
can sit down and say hey I was in Europe with Bill Todd Tammy and Ethel backpacking through the hillside from
00:24:18
August 3rd to the 30th right you know I I would question really any kind of Alibi that you get from anybody on this
00:24:27
to me The Alibi would be kind of a non-factor here right like you said I mean the frustration with this case is
00:24:35
okay this guy that seems like a plausible suspect what is his Alibi M my other thought would be is you know back then
00:24:43
this is this is 1972 And this this would be a just a total guess I've never seen
00:24:48
any evidence of this but my thought would be think about 1972 they put a lot of faith in the old lie detector test
00:24:58
back then a lot of faith in the polygraph test back then and if they really like this guy or if they really
00:25:04
wanted to try to clear him or really hone in on him they're going to try to get him to give a polygraph test
00:25:10
especially if he's cooperating during the the questioning portion right and so maybe he took that test and passed it
00:25:17
passed with flying colors and they're like all right we're all done with you now one thing that uh and you referenced
00:25:23
this last week I believe you referenced the West Memphis 3 last week when we were talking about this Devil's teeth
00:25:29
case and it kind of made me remember something uh regarding John Douglas uh from the FBI's behavior science unit now
00:25:39
one thing that he said and he said this in several profiles that he's given not all of them this is not something that
00:25:45
that runs across the board but he gives this in several profiles and he even gives it when he gives the criminal
00:25:51
profile of who he think may have perpetrated the West Memphis 3 case okay and he states that in a lot of these
00:25:58
cases that somebody but will pass this guy will pass the lie detector test you could bring him in you could hook him up
00:26:06
to the polygraph he still killed her but he will pass the test right I wonder I wonder if they use that to clear him and
00:26:14
hearing that from John Douglas makes you suspect I mean it's a scary thought to think of how many people throughout the
00:26:20
years they may have used the polygraph test to clear them and then it turns out they they only passed the polygraph
00:26:27
because not only are they a murderer but they're truly truly a [Music] psychopath this show is sponsored by
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00:28:53
Captain I probably sound more annoying than normal cuz I'm a little under the the weather Under and Over the weather
00:28:59
at the same time well I went um on my boat uhhuh I'm my big giant boat and um we were attacked by Pirates and I've
00:29:10
been sick ever since bird flu so I want to bring up something here Captain because there's
00:29:17
something strange going on and we we need to point out that Janette depalma's murder and her case is not really the
00:29:26
only one of the time that goes unsolved we have to fast forward to 1974 where we have girls getting killed at
00:29:35
what I've made in my notes here as an alarming rate in New Jersey in 1974 I want to bring up something uh and
00:29:43
this is mainly taken from the New York Times and we've summarized the article but the uh the article's headline is
00:29:51
rights held for two girls latest of six slain and this is is from uh December 30th
00:30:00
1974 they had a Catholic mass celebrating the lives of two teenage girls two teenage girls that were
00:30:07
murdered hundreds of people attended the Wake while this is going on there were detectives from three different counties
00:30:15
meeting all New Jersey counties meeting and comparing notes on Unsolved killings
00:30:20
of six teenage girls now the church service was for Joanne dardo 15 years old and Dorene carluchi who is 14 years
00:30:31
old they were last seen walking together on December 13th they first went to a recreation
00:30:38
center they left there and going to a nearby convenience store and after leaving the store they disappeared into
00:30:45
the night roughly 2 weeks later their bodies were discovered in a wooded area in Mana lappen Township New
00:30:53
Jersey an examination revealed that both had been badly beaten and they died as a
00:30:59
result of strangulation both bodies were found partially nude and one of the girls
00:31:03
still had a length of electric cord wrapped around her neck father Strano oversaw the services for the girls and
00:31:12
he directed most of his sermon at the classmates of the Dead girls telling them learn to live life as it is do not
00:31:19
expect everything to be joyful happy or pleasurable don't look for constant climaxes constant highs turn away from
00:31:28
drugs grass and booze so I think Captain we may have to do with them being murdered exactly I think that you and I
00:31:37
might have been right about something here you know what why do we see the priest using the sermon at the service
00:31:44
of the murdered girls as a teaching moment for the other kids cuz he's a [ __ ] mhm and I think regarding Janette
00:31:54
dep Palma that is how some of these rumors about her behavior and about her character came about if you start
00:32:01
talking to kids at the services saying stay away from drugs grass and booze some of those kids start thinking well
00:32:09
these two girls must have been doing some or all of those things and that behavior may have led to their demise
00:32:17
yeah and isn't that some form of victim blaming I think so it's a 14-year-old girl you're going to blame her you know
00:32:25
she's some drug addict it's ridiculous and even though we can't put together a cause of death for
00:32:31
Janette there's good reason to suspect that she had nothing she was doing is what led to her her death right we we
00:32:40
can't we can't find anything any big red flags anything standing out saying oh this is this is some bad stuff that she
00:32:47
was doing or some bad people she was hanging out with we can't find any of that yeah it's most likely her trying to
00:32:54
find a ride is what caused her death so who are these other girls that that they
00:32:59
are mentioning in this article part of these six girls that were killed in 1974 well here's two more of them in in
00:33:06
separate incidents uh first one in January of 74 and then in February of 74 we have Suzanne Garden who was just 14
00:33:15
years old and Cynthia lesie 18 years of age both were out uh walking after Susan
00:33:23
was out walking after leaving her home and then cthonia who was out running errands both were found dead just days
00:33:30
after they were last seen both strangled both partially clothed and the bodies left in wooded areas now neither of
00:33:38
these girls had been sexually assaulted uh this happened over in do Township now
00:33:44
I want to take us to Friday August 9th 1974 and let's move to a place called North Bergen this again in New Jersey so
00:33:52
now we are about 20 mi Northeast of Springfield where Janette was from and just actually almost two years almost
00:34:02
two years exactly from the day that Janette went missing we have Maryanne prior along with her friend Lorraine
00:34:09
Marie Kelly Maryann prior is 17 years old and Lorraine Marie Kelly is she's actually just days away from turning 17
00:34:17
years old they were planning to go to the mall walking to the mall according to prior's family this was around 4 in
00:34:26
the afternoon when they left saying that they would be back a little after 5:00 p.m. but they they don't return right
00:34:33
MaryAnn's mother calls the police and attempt to report that her daughter is missing well Captain you can probably
00:34:40
guess what happens here right so her mother and you know they're they're told she's not missing until it's been 24
00:34:47
hours we can't take a report such [ __ ] so her mother and older sister go out looking for her and unfortunately
00:34:54
they find nothing once the mother mother is finally able to or shall we say allowed to report her daughter missing
00:35:02
the police insist that she is a runaway and therefore she is labeled as such on the report that they
00:35:09
take do your job yeah they did do some looking for her uh we have to be fair and state that one person they spoke
00:35:19
with among others was Line's boyfriend this is uh Ricky molinero now Ricky fills the police in on some of the
00:35:27
details of that evening he says that he had picked the girls up and drove them for a portion of their trip I'm guessing
00:35:34
toward their destination but dropping them off along the way it sounds like the two teenage girls had a few stops to
00:35:42
make on their walk before returning home right Ricky tells the police that the plan was that he was going to pick them
00:35:49
up at a predetermined location at approximately 900 p.m. that night Ricky goes to the pickup point and his his
00:35:56
girlfriend Lorraine and her friend Maryanne they never show up 5 days later on August 14th
00:36:04
1974 and about 20 mi away the two girls bodies were found on a hill in Montvale New Jersey the two girls were naked and
00:36:15
lying next to each other uh and this is an account mainly taken from Pix 11 in New York and checked with the New York
00:36:23
Times it's referred to as a hill but it's more like this there's there's a parking lot and then there's some Woods
00:36:30
near the parking lot MH this is pretty much a small stretch of land between the parking lot and the woods that's where
00:36:39
the bodies were found so what I picture is someone pulling up pulling into the lot and a truck or a car pulling up and
00:36:48
to a little land strip there and unloading these bodies and either carrying them or more likely dragging
00:36:55
them one at a time from the vehicle and then laying or placing them between the lot and the woods mhm just to give you a
00:37:03
quick idea of what we are looking at the Pix 11 headline one of the Articles mentioned is says torture rape and
00:37:13
murder of two North Burgan tees still a mystery now the girls like Janette were found face down M and other than just a
00:37:21
couple pieces of jewelry there was nothing on these girls and both were in bad shape we we see signs of taunting
00:37:29
and torture here bruising to the face and burn marks on them now these these would be small burn marks so possibly
00:37:37
cigarette Burns both had been strangled and due to leature marks on the wrist and Ankle
00:37:44
some have suggested that they may have been hog tied this is quite possible but I want to throw this in there as a
00:37:52
thought rather than hog tide and I only mention this due to the time of death offered up later by the medical examiner
00:38:00
so keep in mind the girls were missing for about 5 days well the newspaper accounts says says 5 days they they
00:38:09
technically went missing in the evening right and they're not found until later they're not found until a morning time
00:38:16
so it's more like 5 and a half days if you want to be technical about it right well the medical examiner comes back
00:38:24
with that they had been killed between 24 and maybe as long as 48 hours before they were found I love love these
00:38:34
windows they give yeah but they were they were killed within an hour to four days well it can it can get very
00:38:42
difficult to determine it's not it's not like on TV where they they stick a little probe in somebody and they're
00:38:47
like this person was killed at 3:15 right um but it doesn't necessarily mean that they were laying there the entire
00:38:55
time but they were just dead for 24 to 48 hours before being placed there so now we have we have a window right a
00:39:04
rather big window of 60 to maybe over 80 hours of missing time time that the girls would have been alive but missing
00:39:14
probably held somewhere so I offer up that maybe rather than hog tied risk to ankles I suspect tied to something uh
00:39:22
maybe more likely the ligature marks tied before or they were killed yeah that they were held hostage somewhere
00:39:30
these two deaths are very different in the sense that we see signs of torture and both were assaulted sexually well
00:39:37
with janette's death I mean we still don't have a cause of death and that's going to be the big problem so are these
00:39:43
connected I mean I think one you have uh women of the same roughly the same age so that connects them also they're you
00:39:54
know uh traveling by foot mhm so that connects them you know are these connected I I don't know if there's any
00:40:01
way of us knowing because we don't have you know to me it would be these would be in a line and that maybe Janette was
00:40:09
one of the first victims yeah you bring up something good there because you're right we see if if if she is in a series
00:40:18
of murders uh that we just discussed here you would see an escalation going on because and it's tough with janette's
00:40:26
because she was badly decomposed we don't know what evidence we would be missing because of the time that her
00:40:32
body sat there right but in these in these two women's cases we have you know the situation where they're they're
00:40:41
tortured they're they're raped they beat in janette's case it could be as simple
00:40:45
as this was one of the first attacks he had on somebody and he strangled her but
00:40:51
he didn't strangle enough to break her pyoid bone right but I do want to point out that there is a medical examiner
00:40:59
that is quoted in that article regarding these six murder victims that are separate from janette's case and this
00:41:06
medical examiner in his opinion is quoted as saying that the the killings are dissimilar but the prosecutor and
00:41:13
the investigators at the time they wanted to wait to make a conclusion until they had the opportunity to sit
00:41:19
down together and compare everything that they had now they never come out at any point and say that these are
00:41:26
absolutely connected they're just stating to the media that we are sitting down and working on these together
00:41:32
because we have an alarming situation we have girls that are walking down the street they're going missing and then
00:41:38
they're later turning up dead now I want to bring up somebody that uh most of us
00:41:44
are probably not familiar with and his name is Robert zarinsky MH now I'd be surprised if many of our New Jersey
00:41:53
residents even know who this guy is this guy is a real problem okay uh and look as as you can see in the early 70s a few
00:42:02
counties in New Jersey had a real problem now this guy zarinsky he might not have been the single source of all
00:42:10
of their problems but I'll sum up what we know about him and I'll let you be the judge so Robert zarinsky was born in
00:42:18
1940 and at the ripe age of 18 it's believed that he had killed for the first time this is in 1950 eight they
00:42:27
think that he killed a cop and the story goes like this there's a officer Charles
00:42:34
berari so this officer responds to a burglary that's in progress at the Miller Pontiac car dealership in raway
00:42:42
New Jersey MH the officer when he arrives and he startles these two guys he's fired at uh and he returns
00:42:52
fire now the officer was shot and killed at the scene fingerprints were left and
00:42:58
lifted from the crime scene hang on to your horses Captain cuz this is strange 41 years later M they
00:43:06
identified the fingerprints and matched them to a man by the name of Theodore schiffner now turns out that Schiffer
00:43:14
was at the Pontiac dealership that night way back in 1958 he was there with his cousin Robert
00:43:22
zarinsky and when the officer caught them there they shot at the officer the officer managed to actually shoot both
00:43:29
of these men that night good for him and yet they find a way to get away in 2001
00:43:35
zorinsky sister testified at court that her and her mother had removed bullets from both Robert zarinsky and his cousin
00:43:45
that night the boys telling them that night that they had shot at a cop zarinsky was tried for this like we said
00:43:54
in 2001 but it was not successful he was acquitted of the charges how okay so we have his
00:44:03
fingerprints well they have his cousin's fingerprints his fingerprints weren't actually found and they they tie him
00:44:10
there because of what his sister States about removing the bullets from the two of them and the two telling the story
00:44:17
hey we shot at a cop tonight right but shouldn't one piece of the evidence is let's just see if he has a bullet wound
00:44:25
let's just find out if he's ever been shot before yeah I don't know if they took that Avenue I I would guess that
00:44:31
they right but then if you have been shot before and you claim that your sister didn't take it out of you can we
00:44:38
see the doctor's report from which hospital you went to take this bullet out of you you know it's you should have
00:44:45
been the prosecutor and I'll tell you why the reason why they picked apart that that case and they couldn't
00:44:50
sentence this guy was because they discredited the sister they you know they basically tore her apart and her
00:44:57
life apart and stated you know you can't trust This Woman's uh story she's a sleazy she's a sleazy woman she's easy
00:45:05
you can't believe a word she says but you bring up some some good things so now this dude zarinsky of course you can
00:45:13
see that he's going to be a career criminal you know and he did you know he had things like robbery arson a lot of
00:45:20
that sort of thing in his background and on his record but in 1965 it's believed that he started
00:45:27
killing women and girls but this didn't catch up to him until 1975 so is it a coincidence that just
00:45:36
one year after these six female victims were killed that he's finally locked up and they stopped and the killing sto he
00:45:45
was given a life sentence for the 1969 murder of Rose Mary oh man I'm going to butcher this last time go for
00:45:54
it Colin coland Drell Nice Shot nice try buddy uh unfortunately I I apologize to her and
00:46:05
her family she was only 17 years old she was from Atlantic Highlands New Jersey um but it's not just that simple cuz
00:46:13
zorinsky was indicted for the 1968 murder of Jane Durer just 13 years old but this wasn't until
00:46:24
2008 now he ends up dying in prison before the trial could start and then even crazier after his death this didn't
00:46:34
take place until 2016 D DNA evidence connected him to the 1965 murder of Maric kinsky who was 18
00:46:44
years old he was also a prime suspect and four other murders of young women in teenage girls from the years 1969 to
00:46:53
1974 and this includes the murders of of two that we discussed here this Dorene carluchi and and Joanne dardo these were
00:47:03
the two that were walking together to the mall right it looks to me Captain like if I had to pick somebody just
00:47:10
based off of previous crimes other activity that we know they were up to and being in the area at the time I
00:47:17
think that he probably killed these two girls I'm not convinced that he killed the other four I certainly don't i c
00:47:26
don't really think that he killed Janette DePalma well who knows I mean he's a he's a serial killer but I right
00:47:33
and it's not out of the realm of possibility right and he certainly belongs on the suspect list certainly
00:47:39
for those that include a serial killer Theory or an unknown serial killer Theory uh when discussing janette's
00:47:46
death he's definitely also on the list of pieces of [ __ ] that he is Captain I you know I suspect that had Robert
00:47:54
killed Janette that there would would have been signs of the cause of death there would have been some marks some
00:48:00
indication that she might have been tortured before being killed and I mean I I know she was badly decayed but I
00:48:07
think it would have been an obvious homicide because Robert zarinsky I mean he left the item he strangled girls with
00:48:16
at the dump scenes and even on their bodies yeah he was a real genius um that's why I question the autopsy a
00:48:26
lot because I know that she was badly decomposed but I just go back to the fact that um maybe this person didn't
00:48:33
have enough experience maybe this person just didn't do their job that weekend but it just seems like those are the
00:48:40
things that were missing that could really helped this case and I think you may have hit the nail on the head there
00:48:45
Captain I think I mean it smells a little FY you know well but you're talking about I think you're right that
00:48:52
the person may not have had the right experience mhm and the reason why that comes to mind is because the 6 weeks
00:48:59
between the time that she went missing and then the body being found I think that a lot was left uh from there a lot
00:49:06
was lost uh over that portion of time and that somebody with less or experience didn't know what to look for
00:49:13
or didn't know who to go to to ask the appropriate questions and I don't have the person's name here in front of me uh
00:49:22
the the acting coroner or medical examiner or whatever you want to call them at the time what I do know is that
00:49:30
the person was a an appointed uh it was similar to the FY Malik situation where it was somebody that was appointed right
00:49:38
uh the position it wasn't a position that they applied for and sat in front of medical boards and earned the
00:49:44
position it was an appointed position it was a practicing physician uh the person
00:49:49
was a doctor uh that that held that position but not a trained from what I could find not a trained
00:49:57
pathologist so you you might be Hest something there we we could be missing the cause of death simply because this
00:50:04
person giving the examination may not have had the proper amount of experience M now I do want to kind of move towards
00:50:13
a high note uh and maybe I should be bigger than this but I'm I'm not uh so I'm happy to report that the the guy
00:50:21
that we were just talking about Robert zarinsky is under dirt like we had said he had passed away he's under dirt where
00:50:28
he belongs he died late in 2008 in prison he had pulmonary fibrosis this is a disease that makes it increasingly
00:50:38
difficult to breathe so like I said I'm not bigger I wish I was bigger than this
00:50:42
but I'm not I hope it was hell for him at the end this is a guy that he's killing people by strangulation right
00:50:49
yeah so I mean the universe you know Karma sometimes is a [ __ ] that chokes you up really slowly for a long time
00:50:57
well and maybe fitting in a way that that was how he passed away but uh you know serves him right that son of we
00:51:04
bring him up because he's a he's a lesser known likely serial killer and there is that theory of an unknown
00:51:11
serial killer having worked the area maybe janette's part of that series maybe she was not a victim in that
00:51:17
series uh one thing that I would encourage people to do is I think that zarinsky could be a like
00:51:25
suspect for a victim that's named Joan Kramer and now she's not somebody that we've discussed here and some people
00:51:34
have have been led to believe or some people believe that there's a possibility that Joan Kramer's death is
00:51:42
in fact connected to janette's in some way right and we've not discussed that death here uh but I would encourage
00:51:49
people to check that out in the book that we keep bringing up the death on the devil's teeth hopefully we get a
00:51:54
talk with Jesse tomorrow tomorrow yes and the thing here is though Captain I do want to kind of wrap a few things up
00:52:00
you know as we've gone through all these different theories and and all the thoughts and rumors that were out there
00:52:06
regarding Janette DePalma and what could have happened to her you know we've talked we we spent the last half hour
00:52:13
talking about this possible unknown serial killer idea we talked about what happened to to the man that I brought up
00:52:20
Robert zarinsky uh what we what we failed to mention here is some of the other uh
00:52:28
theories that we've discussed and one of those being that one of the blatus brothers had disposed of janette's body
00:52:35
that something happened to her at that at that so-called party that night and one of the blatus brother brothers left
00:52:43
her there in the woods right now I do want to clear up one thing we kind of we kind of put the kibos on that because
00:52:50
we're stating you know there were no drugs found in her system right and second of all so why would you dump a
00:52:56
body that somebody ow deed but again if the person doesn't know how to do their job and do the autopsy right maybe they
00:53:04
don't know if there were drugs in their system or not well I don't think he conducted those tests and I I don't have
00:53:10
the information right in front of me I think yeah I think he sent that was sent off but I think it it was in a way
00:53:18
that and this is going to sound very crude and I'm sorry but it's it's what happened um I I I think because of how
00:53:26
decayed the body was that he had to remove a a piece of Flesh mhm from a remaining piece of Flesh from the body
00:53:33
that was sent off for testing now I I don't have you know I'm not a doctor I don't play one on TV I
00:53:42
don't pretend to be a doctor um but I I do want to point this out from my limited knowledge on how
00:53:49
this stuff works it's my understanding that that the manner that they perform that test by cutting off a piece of the
00:53:57
Flesh and sending it off is not the preferred way that they that they would like to do conduct that test right so
00:54:03
the test could be inconclusive it could be it could be wrong but there is some speculation and rumors and and some some
00:54:11
loose evidence to prove that she left that house MH so that would kind of well there's a couple people that said that
00:54:18
that's what they believe you know that they they heard from other people you know these are all people of the same
00:54:24
age that go to the same school saying hey I heard from soand so that she showed up there that night that she
00:54:30
showed up there that evening now there are a few police officers out there and we referenced them uh last week stating
00:54:38
that uh you know regarding the blattis brother theory is well I wouldn't work the Janette the Palma case because I'm
00:54:45
90% sure that this blatus brother and I'm going to refrain from using his first name had something to do with this
00:54:52
that left her body in the woods and he died he's passed away in it was in the late 8 ' 80s or early
00:54:59
90s and so therefore what did he die of drug overd Noose I I don't know I don't know all I know is that because if he
00:55:06
did then there was a little more weight to that story all I know is that he's passed away and there stating you know
00:55:12
look the guy we believe that did this or that had something to do with this is dead and gone so there's no point in
00:55:19
investigating that theory any further we talked about the homeless the houseless
00:55:24
man excuse read uh that theory he he did you know we questioned how they cleared
00:55:31
him uh he has passed away as well um he they found him in the woods he in another dwelling that he had put
00:55:40
together and I believe this would have been about 12 years 12 or 15 years after the Janette the Palma case he was still
00:55:47
soul searching he was still doing his thing in the woods there uh in a different part of New Jersey and he was
00:55:53
found and I believe it was an AC it was ruled an accidental death and the list case that
00:56:00
we covered was the conclusion of that for the listeners that were probably wondering oh yeah so John list after
00:56:07
having killed his mother wife and children in 1971 um he was on the run for 17 and a
00:56:14
half years Jesus during that time he had relocated a couple of times moving to Michigan then to Colorado and on to
00:56:23
Virginia m uh where he was apprehended in living under the Alias of Robert Peter Clark going by Robert Peter Clark
00:56:32
three first names yeah I didn't pick up on that he he did go by Bob for short oh
00:56:38
that's that's very Bob Clark uh during this time on the Run he had married again uh he was arrested in June of 1989
00:56:48
in Richmond Virginia uh the and I'll give a brief a brief story of this cuz it's kind of of
00:56:55
it's quite lengthy actually um but this is one of my favorite kind of old true crime stories
00:57:02
that I'm very fond of it's a it's a story that I read many years ago and some of you might be familiar with this
00:57:08
but for those of you that are not John list was actually apprehended in in large part to the America's Most Wanted
00:57:16
Tv show uh they had presented his case at least one time multiple times I believe and to the point where they made
00:57:25
a bust of what John John list would probably look like in 1989 MH now one of his neighbors a person that had lived
00:57:36
with him yeah I remember this episode yeah somebody that had lived near him in Colorado called America's Most Wanted
00:57:43
and said look I know this dude he looks exactly like him he's a weird guy uh he's the same age and he's going by this
00:57:52
name and he three first names he and his wife moved to Richmond Virginia and they
00:57:58
later tracked him down now the crazy thing here though Captain is John list he for like it was like for like nine
00:58:05
months he denied Being John list and he was like nope I'm Robert Peter Clark I'm Robert Peter Clark you have to
00:58:12
prove that I'm not this person that I've been living as for at least 17 and a half years but this is the crazy son of
00:58:20
a [ __ ] that decided I'm going to kill everybody in my family because I'm afraid they're going away from God so if
00:58:28
I kill them now they're going to go to God right now it's pure insanity and it's what what baffles me and all these
00:58:37
satanic Panic cases is those are there's a lot that we have talked about are that
00:58:42
are popular cases like the West Memphis 3 for example mhm don't you think these like very religious uh people killing
00:58:51
their whole family cases should be a little bit more popular to warn people right right I mean but often what we see
00:58:59
in these situations is we have somebody that's probably especially with John Liss let's use just use him as the prime
00:59:06
example but in this example we see somebody that is a complete psychopath and he's then going to use religion
00:59:14
God's name in heaven as some kind of excuse or or some reasoning behind something that the rest of us do not
00:59:22
want to have to comprehend right because it was a a [ __ ] and he wasn't a believer
00:59:26
in God anyways you know and look I'm all for religious rights and spiritual beliefs you know in a healthy manner
00:59:33
though MH well to to kind of wrap this up though the way that they and remember he was going to stick to his guns and
00:59:40
and say that he was Robert Peter Clark and the way that they did identify him Robert Peter Clark Trio yeah it's
00:59:49
the one man band uh they they found his old from his old mil military records when he was a young man they fingerprint
00:59:57
you when you go into the military well they compared those fingerprints for with his his fingerprints and they
01:00:04
matched him up so you can't gotcha got him can't get out of that so he was positively identified as John list
01:00:12
remember he left that letter to his Pastor that kind of was a confession remember he said exactly what he did but
01:00:21
like you were saying it's it's less of a confession fashion and more of um an excuse excuse and and and putting
01:00:30
some U backing up his reasoning or what he did but I I only bring that up because at trial they used that letter
01:00:39
against him as a confession good and then his his attorneys pointed out that they couldn't use it because that was
01:00:48
something that he left addressed to his pastor and they have that relationship you know they have the confidence
01:00:55
between the two of them can't be brought up in in court don't worry they they had
01:00:59
no problem um convicting him and unfortunately he was given the the um the worst penalty he could face at the
01:01:10
time was five life sentences so they couldn't they couldn't give him the death penalty they couldn't give him
01:01:16
anything more than five life sentences but uh uh that's what they did in the John Liss case if John L still went by
01:01:24
Robert Peter Clark I hope they all three got what they deserved in [Music] prison all right until next time be good
01:01:39
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