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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for details [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage Wherever
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You Are are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that has one
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question for you all have you ever fought a dinosaur cuz they can cause a variety of damage here is the captain
00:01:43
dropping facts it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
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friend this week we are featuring another good one this one is called Ruby and it's an American Red Ale
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this is a flagship beer from the folks at Fat Bottom Brewing it's perfectly balanced beautiful in color and a
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fantastic blend of Rich specialty malts and most importantly Ruby is delicious four out of five bottle caps is your
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garage grade and let's give a big Ron Swanson please and thank you that goes out to Victoria T in Denver Colorado big
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we like your JP to Palmer in St Louis next up here's a cheers to Teresa Bower in Parts Unknown and a big shout out to
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Shelby in Friendswood Texas and I'm sending out a big cheers to my friend Greg Maguire who is somewhere in the
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great state of Illinois and last but certainly not least we have Christopher and NM Claw Washington everyone we just
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mentioned they helped us out with this week's beer fund and for that we got a full garage fridge and we are forever
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grateful to all of you yeah b r you Inn beer run if you would like to support the show and uh get some more True Crime
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Garage in your earballs subscribe to our show called off the Record it's only on
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stit premium and Colonel that's enough of the beer all right everybody gather around
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grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] [Applause] [Music] crime [Music]
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me I [Music] can't sadly today is 10 years since two little girls were taken and now we sit
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here and we still are looking for answers when we left off yesterday both girls were already missing and it was
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not looking to be a very good situation it was very Bleak they had found the girls bicycles they had found one of the
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girls' purses in a location that was odd in a location that they were said to not
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have been allowed to ride their bikes too and this was a weird location too because it also presented difficulties
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for an abduction Theory but based off of the result and what we know will be abduction is the only theory that makes
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any sense here very quickly we end up having some witnesses come forward that will help to flesh out our timeline just
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a little bit more regarding the day that the girls went missing so Witnesses started to come forward one witness was
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a man named Robert Carpenter he's an Evansdale resident who lived only about two blocks away from from Myers Lake
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remember Myers Lake is where the bikes were found he came forward and told police that he saw the girls on Friday
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the 13th while he was out watering his yard he said that they biked by him they were on their bikes and biked by him
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sometime between noon and 1 p.m. this time does make sense in our general timeline that we have Carpenter lives on
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Lake Avenue and if this was the girls if this really was the girls riding by they
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were close to the area where the bikes were eventually found we should point out though even though we have this
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witness there's a chance that maybe he saw two other girls seems unlikely but there's a
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chance that they were there were other girls that he saw that day and he's just trying to be helpful definitely a
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possibility CU it's a Friday and it's in the summer school's out so very possible
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that a kid could be playing in the neighborhood he's out watering his lawn maybe he sees several kids out there
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throughout the course of his day and again he's just trying to be helpful but again this does fit in with our general
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timeline that we're working with here another witness came forward and this was a cyclist who lived in nearby waterl
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who often rode the Evansdale nature trail this cyclist approached police who were in the process of SE SE in the
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woods and thick Tall Grass areas along the nature trail this is on Monday the 16th so remember the girls went missing
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on Friday the 13th this gentleman sees the officers on Monday the 16th by now with him living in waterl he already has
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probably some awareness that this situation is on going and he approaches the officers and he told them that when
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he was there pre previously on Friday the 13th he had seen two kids bikes on the nature trail but he never saw any
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sign of the girls themselves he says and this is according to his statement I saw
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the bikes lying on the path and I remember it because I had to Swerve to miss them remember we described how
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those bikes were found on that trail on that bike path and that makes sense that
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this guy out riding would have to Swerve or have to avoid hitting them with his bike as he's biking past he said that he
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believed that this would have been before 1227 p.m. and the way that he comes up
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with this time is he's basing this off of a phone call that he made to his daughter soon thereafter and he's got
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the Tim stamp on his phone of that phone call as 1227 p.m. so he says he believes that
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this was before that time well this next eyewitness is actually going to be better than a traditional eyewitness cuz
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this is going to be technology eyewitness andless your eyewitness has a photographic memory like the captain
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does this is better it's a curse I tell you that's right this is when we have investigators who are able to obtain
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surveillance footage from an old auction house and remember we referenced a brov
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van Boulevard in our first episode yesterday and this B is not far from the home where the girls were before they
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left on their bikes the footage that the investigators obtained in the part of the footage that is important to them in
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our case was rather short but it catches a brief glimpse of the girls showing the
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two of them biking and passing the auction house at 12:23 p.m. which is not long after the
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12:15 time reported by Grandma who said that she saw them biking around at 12:15
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now there's a couple of weird things with this surveillance footage and we reported on some of this in our original
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coverage in episodes 393 and 394 one thing is that the the owner of this auction house did inform the police that
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hey the time is off on the surveillance footage it's only off by eight minutes so not a big you know discrepancy there
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one thing I could not determine based off of the statements that have been released to the
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media and that were available to us is in which which direction is that 8 minutes now it seems more likely to me
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that the 1223 might be earlier and maybe it was actually 1231 and I only say that because we have
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Grandma saying that at approximately 12:15 is when I believed that I had seen them them and the captain and I will
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always warn everybody and throw the caveat out there to all of these times when people were trying to remember
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these things they're never exact so Grandma could be off on her time as well and maybe the auction house footage is
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from 12:15 if the eyewitness is saying that they saw something at 12:30 okay well I'm going to put that in a window
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of 12:15 to 12:45 the other information that we have too is that the direction according to the s footage the direction
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that the girls were traveling at this time whether it be 12:15 to 12:31 would be they are heading in the
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opposite direction away from the lake on the surveillance footage now they very quickly could have turned around I mean
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I remember when I'm out riding with my buddies when we were kids very often we don't know exactly where we want to go
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or it's some kind of debate on where we're actually going because we have have nothing to do nothing to no place
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to to be and so we're just kind of out on a random adventure and so there is the
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possibility that they could have quickly turned around what I'm trying to point out here though is while all of this
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information is helpful it's also really difficult to kind of sort it out because
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the eyewitnesses that have come forward the surveillance footage is great because you know that that happened you
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have it you can view it with your own eyes law enforcement can see it and go yep that's the girls those are the girls
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we're looking for and we know that it happened on this date in this approximate time which we get get a
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window of roughly 16 to 17 minutes right the troubling thing though is the eyewitnesses that are coming forward
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they're trying to remember after the fact about what time it is that they witness something
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whether they saw the girls riding or whether the cyclist found the bikes or spotted the bikes on the trail and had
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to Swerve to avoid them he comes up with 1227 as the marker on his timeline saying it had to happen before 1227
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because I remember talking to my daughter and I believe that that phone call occurred afterwards right I'm just
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trying to present a scenario here that all of these times cannot be accurate that is correct sir that
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somebody has to be off on their timeline yes and it could be just an honest mistake definitely but it seems very
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difficult to me if the girls are riding in the opposite direction between 12:15 and 1231 and this man says that I saw
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those bikes had to Swerve to avoid them and it happened before 1227 so the the timeline is a little
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skewed and I think we have to take some of these these minute markers with a grain of salt and like the captain said
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I think you put them more into a WI window of time rather than give them an exact bullet point or marker well let's
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also think about the age of the victims they're pretty young and they're connected how they're related so some of
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these crimes you you have to look inwards first could they been abducted by a stranger yes is this a crime of
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opportunity possibly but we have to look in the Inner Circle first and then move out
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outward well that's exactly right Captain what we will end up having unfortunately is that on Wednesday
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December 5th 2012 hunters came across two deceased bodies in the Seven Bridges Wildlife
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Park this is near Redland and Brimmer County this is a wildlife area that is about 25 miles away from where the girls
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were last seen these two Hunters contacted law enforcement official officials at 12:45 p.m. on December 5th
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so let's think about that for a minute here so this is just under what five months so five months approximately goes
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by from the time that they go missing until the time that their bodies are found now it will take several days for
00:14:19
law enforcement to come out and say that this in fact and confirm for everybody that this in fact is the two missing
00:14:26
girls that we did we have recovered their bodies from this location but very quickly law enforcement is quick to
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point out look we don't have any other scenarios of two missing victims that are young
00:14:45
people in this area so while we cannot confirm it until until we do all of our uh proper testing and confirm everything
00:14:56
properly We Believe this to be the girls so it actually took about a week for them to confirm and and make that
00:15:05
statement to the media and to the Press but they didn't leave the parents hanging to sit there and you know be
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tortured that's what it would be it would be tortured to hear that we we found some victims okay s of a mouth we
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don't know if it's your your kid or not you know law enforcement was pretty Frank with them saying it would be
00:15:29
highly unlikely it' be highly unprobable for it to be somebody else we of course
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know the statistics on this according to the National Center for missing and exploited
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children stranger abductions if this was in fact a stranger abduction are the rarest type of case and make up only 1%
00:15:50
approximately 1% of the missing children cases reported to the ncmec the the national Center for
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missing exploited children even rarer is the Abduction of two children in broad daylight in fact the
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FBI doing their research trying to find similar crimes could only find 15 similar incidents right occurring
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between the years of 1976 and 2012 now keep in mind the 2012 incident is the iic and Elizabeth
00:16:30
incident so really you only have 14 other situations where two kids were abducted believed to be a
00:16:39
stranger abduction and in broad daylight so with the perpetrator having no actual ties to either victim very
00:16:49
very frustrating this is going to be if in fact this was a stranger abduction this is going to be
00:16:57
an incredible L difficult crime an incredibly difficult situation to investigate and when I say investigate I
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mean investigate to the point where it leads you to an actual suspect because unless you have witnesses that can
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provide you with a suspect some kind of breadcrumb trail that will lead you to a
00:17:17
suspect the only information that you have that could potentially lead you to a suspect would be items that you would
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find at either crime scene that would be the location where the bikes were found
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and the purse was found and the location where the bodies were found approximately 25 miles away just under 5
00:17:40
months later if you don't find anything at those scenes that lead you directly to someone or someone's you don't have a
00:17:48
lot to go on you might have evidence but you need somebody to tie that to you don't have anybody to compare it to
00:17:56
because you don't have much of a suspect pool now the captain's right what you do
00:18:01
here in any of these situations and they did this well before the bodies were later found you start with the people
00:18:08
that know the victims the best their family their their intimate small circle their Social Circles and you fan out
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from there and immediately still when the girls were missing we have a problem with one set of parents yeah there's a
00:18:24
problem because Lyric's father Dan has a criminal history he does Dan morresy has
00:18:32
uh several charges against him for possessing dealing and making methamphetamine the other problem that
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we have is at some point early on in the investigation when the girls are still missing Dan becomes he's not cooperating
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with police anymore in the beginning in the initial stages all family members both sets of families both of the girls
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parents were cooperating with police and at some point Dan stops cooperating this seems to take place
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when the police start accusing him now we should be clear here though we have the information that's been
00:19:14
released to the media or per the media I shouldn't say released to because that makes it sound like it came from law
00:19:20
enforcement I don't know where the media obtain this information but several news
00:19:26
sources state that the parents all past polygraphs and some of them multiple polygraphs yeah I'm wondering if they
00:19:33
gave uh Dan multiple polygraph test here's the thing though he could have just lost his head when they started
00:19:42
accusing him some people can't handle that some people can't handle that and I don't think in my opinion that this
00:19:49
points to guilt now I wish that he would have handled this differently I wish that he would have continued to
00:19:55
cooperate because that is the only way that they are going to find out who did this to your child is with your help you
00:20:03
not cooperating really complicates the investigation because now they're even more concerned about you yes you have a
00:20:10
checkered past yes you are in trouble with the police but if you look at the Timeline there's not really any time in
00:20:18
this timeline for Dan to have been active or directly involved in whatever happened to these girls it just it just
00:20:26
doesn't work out so the other thing that the police have to wonder about though is because of Dan's previous Affairs and
00:20:36
because of his activities it puts him around a shady group of people a bunch of probably a bunch of shitty people
00:20:43
yeah Shady shitty shady and shitty yeah and so could one of them have been involved or several of them have been
00:20:50
involved now I I kind of look at this and the only way I see this as being a possibility or the most likely of
00:20:59
possibilities that would lead back to Dan is that he likely has no knowledge of this or if he did have knowledge of
00:21:07
it maybe it's some kind of abduction for ransom that went bad that went just completely wrong and off the rails for
00:21:16
some reason I look at this Captain and the thing that just makes me sick to my stomach is I look at this and I I
00:21:23
see what I think is probably a stranger abduction or an Abduction of some type of Predator rather than somebody
00:21:34
involved with Dan or involved with the drug trade and we do know that these things do happen you know when there's
00:21:42
drugs involved when there's money involved a lot of bad things can happen so I don't want to push it outside of
00:21:49
the box and say it's outside of the realm of possibilities now we won't go through
00:21:54
all of the problems with Dan morisy uh in this episode because we covered it quite extensively in our
00:22:01
previously in our previous episodes if that's something that concerns you or something you want to look into there's
00:22:07
plenty of information there for you in those episodes well the other problem here is yes Strang art on Stranger
00:22:15
abductions especially with two you go well it's it's 1% yeah but these girls have been
00:22:25
there's been a schedule these girls go over they play together they ride their bikes they're now just think about that
00:22:35
this this person could could have known their schedule or known um could have been monitoring them
00:22:44
for a while well and if you have a situation where let's pretend for a second that maybe it was a local
00:22:50
individual that is responsible for this and because of the way that the bikes are found I think that that SU suggest
00:22:58
to me that whoever did this has some kind of knowledge some general knowledge if you will of that area if it were a
00:23:06
local there's we said less than 5,000 people there's less than 4700 people there might even be less than 4600
00:23:13
people in Evansdale at that time if it was a local with it being so few people that lived
00:23:20
there now you create a higher probability that that local knew one of the girls if not both
00:23:28
right and if that local is some type of predator and did this horrific deed even if he just knew one of
00:23:38
them he may have chose this result to avoid being identified for their abduction and whatever assaults took
00:23:51
place because if it were a complete stranger you still have the the Poss possibility
00:23:58
that this individual could let them go drop them off somewhere and not be identified if they don't know
00:24:07
his name you know we we of course would get a description because these are not very very small children they're 10 and
00:24:13
they're eight we would get some kind of description of his vehicle his activities what he looked like uh we
00:24:20
would get that information maybe he didn't want that out there but it's uh it's one of those scenarios where I I
00:24:29
feel like this drug business and and Dan's problems I feel like it's a a big major speed bump in this case now if
00:24:39
they don't have a lot to work with at either crime scene well then there is no speed bump you have to investigate
00:24:46
something and this would certainly be an Avenue worth pursuing well once law enforcement finds the girls they're not
00:24:52
going to give us much information it's going to be very tight lipped very similar to the deli investigation yes
00:25:00
they confirmed that sadly it was in fact LC cook and Elizabeth Collins that were
00:25:06
located in that Seven Bridges area we do not get told how they were killed we do
00:25:12
not get told about sexual assault we do not get told how long they believe that they were in that location
00:25:22
for the only statement that we get after the fact here is we get this kind of vague statement of police
00:25:31
saying well after we found the bodies and after we've run our our forensic investigation we do have a good idea of
00:25:40
when the abduction took place and we do have a good idea of when they were placed in that location where they were
00:25:48
found we don't get any kind of information on how long that they were held or how long that they were alive
00:25:57
after after the abduction took place unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you want to look at
00:26:04
it these things usually don't take a long time before the perpetrator or perpetrators
00:26:13
are moving on to the process of disposing of the [Music] remains this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Applause] [Music] your all right we are back cheers mates hotel motel Holiday In
00:27:58
cheers we stayed at a holiday in in Nashville and for that I feel much smarter isn't that what you're supposed
00:28:04
to feel after staying well they gave my gave me my room for free for just singing that lyric there you go well
00:28:11
probably the best tip that comes forward here in the best breadcrumb trail that we will get in this case is in the form
00:28:19
of the following uh Witnesses these are three separate witnesses that came forward claiming to have seen an older
00:28:26
model White SUV type vehicle which would be similar to a Chevy Suburban or a Ford
00:28:33
Bronco based off of the eyewitness's accounts three separate Witnesses said that they saw an older model white SUV
00:28:41
type vehicle parked on ourbus Avenue which is a street very near Meers Lake on the day that the girls
00:28:50
disappeared this story is a little weird though to me as well with two of the witnesses reported seeing the SUV parked
00:28:58
between two bike trail signs the other witness told police that they had seen the vehicle parked near the woods on the
00:29:05
east side of the lake only a few hundred feet away from where the girl's bikes were later found all three Witnesses
00:29:11
reported seeing the vehicle between 11:30 a.m. and 12:30 p.m. on July 13th 2012 maybe that helps out the
00:29:22
cyclist information that he provided saying that he spotted the bikes before 12 27 what's weird about this
00:29:30
information to me is that two of the witnesses came forward in the first few days of the search while the girls were
00:29:36
still missing the third witness came forward several months later and says that they waited and didn't come forward
00:29:46
earlier because they just assumed that somebody else had already come forward about it that's a weird statement to me
00:29:53
is that weird to you Captain like I I you know I waited a few months I know these girls were missing they're
00:30:00
little kids and I know that I saw something but why didn't I come forward earlier I just assume somebody else came
00:30:07
forward and told you the same information police Never released any of this information until the third witness
00:30:14
came forward I find this to be all very strange why would this and of course we're not going to get any information
00:30:20
from law enforcement but why would this witness think that somebody else would come forward did they see somebody else
00:30:27
there that day did they know one of the other Witnesses and were told yeah I already reported that to the police well
00:30:34
where was this eyewitness located at was he in the neighborhood because that would make more sense to me oh well I
00:30:40
saw him in the neighborhood I I figured other people saw them in the neighborhood too no these are these are
00:30:45
all all these three Witnesses are reporting seeing a strange vehicle on either parked on Arbus Drive
00:30:54
sorry either parked on arbitus Avenue or parked near the woods on the east side of the
00:31:02
lake so they're not reporting seeing the girls or the bikes they're reporting seeing a vehicle that was in the
00:31:08
location of where the bikes are later found and in that location around the time that the girls may have gone
00:31:15
missing even though their time is a little on the early side for our timeline for that day they're reporting
00:31:22
that approximately between 11:30 and 12:30 on that day here's the thing to me Captain I'm
00:31:29
always extremely suspicious and I think we all should be of information that people come forward with placing
00:31:37
themselves in the crime scene area and their stories don't make sense right that's why I question the psychist with
00:31:45
his time could he just be wrong on his time that's Pro that's probably the situation he's just wrong on his time
00:31:52
and he doesn't mean any ill will he's trying to help out the investigation but we have another witness that comes
00:31:59
forward months later saying I didn't come forward because I just assumed somebody else would would give you that
00:32:04
information that's when you want to know what the police know why would they why would they look at this person
00:32:11
as a witness and not as a suspect there must be something in that person's story
00:32:15
that makes them a witness and doesn't put them under suspicion from law enforcement and it could be as simple as
00:32:24
remember Witness A and B well I was with witness B and witness B told me that they told you this information 2 days
00:32:31
after they went missing so I didn't bother coming forward I had nothing in addition to what they told you that's
00:32:38
the things that I want to know because in my mind I'm suspicious of that individual that comes forward months
00:32:44
later why are you now putting yourself at the crime scene nobody else put you there and you have this information that
00:32:52
would have been really important to us back then so that's as concerning to me almost as much as the shadiness and
00:33:01
shittiness around the father Dan morresy and his Shady weird friends and Associates but also the thing you know I
00:33:09
I gave kudos to law enforcement in this area earlier for all the activity that they immediately put into place and I I
00:33:17
applaud them and will continue to do so on all those activities they jumped into
00:33:21
action rather quickly the one thing that I think is missing from what I think should have happened that day is
00:33:28
Roadblocks I didn't see couldn't find any information that suggested that they set up any roadblocks at any time and
00:33:36
I'll tell you what nobody's put me in charge of any missing person's investigation but if they did and if
00:33:42
we're on the scene within an hour 90 minutes after the person was last seen especially a child and we got
00:33:51
bicycles lying on the ground I want roadblock set up we talked about all those different agents gencies that got
00:33:57
involved the state police the highway patrol the Sheriff's Office the nearby larger Police Department of
00:34:04
Water they're already out in these areas let's set up some roadblocks and just let everybody know hey we're looking for
00:34:10
two kids one have you seen anything to do you mind if we look in your car or truck real quick just to make sure that
00:34:16
those two kids are not in there gives you a list of vehicles it gives you a list of license plates it gives you a a
00:34:25
list of people on how they interacted with you and that would be very important because like we said this this
00:34:31
is a very small town but even the surrounding areas if you take all the surrounding areas you're looking at less
00:34:37
than a 100,000 people that's pretty easy to start sifting through the crowd you go okay
00:34:43
well I winess to saw a man okay now you're now you're at 50,000 people well between the ages of this and this okay
00:34:51
now you're at you at 10,000 people you see what I'm saying like it's well not only that within within a couple days we
00:34:57
have these Witnesses at least two of them that came forward saying I saw an older model white SUV type vehicle maybe
00:35:04
a Bronco or suburban and like you said if you have that list of vehicles that you created
00:35:10
because of your roadblocks you you could compare that you could cross reference that with this
00:35:15
new evidence or new witness statements that come forward just days later and you go oh we we stopped six or seven
00:35:24
vehicles that match that General description here's the driver's name or or here's the the plate it was an Iowa
00:35:30
plate or it was an out of state plate whoever did this known to the victims or unknown to the victims I
00:35:39
believe drove them out of the area rather quickly and I don't think it's just because of where their bodies were
00:35:45
later found that I I've come to that conclusion I think that whoever did this wanted to get out of there with them I
00:35:52
agree it's a small area less than 47 100 people they did not want to be seen with these girls in
00:36:00
their possession well and there's obviously things that as an investigator you want to know how long were these
00:36:08
girls alive for how long were they taken captured for um or held hostage for it's
00:36:16
um that would give you I think an idea of a profile of an individual or what kind of individual we're looking at yeah
00:36:24
and it sounds like based off of the few statements regarding evidence that they have that law enforcement has it sounds
00:36:32
like they have a general timeline themselves that they're working from that would
00:36:37
include probably not exact dates but more roundabout times and dates to those different items of of
00:36:47
when they were disposed of in that area how long they had been there what have you what the big turn in this case comes
00:36:57
on February 3rd 2015 this is at another press conference that was held in Evansdale and we have the chief of
00:37:06
police Kent smok is his name he declared that the the focus of their investigation the focus of their
00:37:14
efforts from now on will be those familiar with Seven Bridges Wildlife Park and he States quote I think you
00:37:23
will agree with me that Seven Bridges is Extreme remote we have no doubt that the
00:37:29
person or persons responsible for this crime are very familiar with Seven Bridges it's a very well-known area to
00:37:36
the local community unless you just knew that area you wouldn't just come across
00:37:42
it obviously whoever took the girls to that area was comfortable with that environment and knew of that environment
00:37:51
yeah I totally agree it was also at this press conference that smok informed the public that they did
00:37:59
not currently have a suspect or a person of interest it also sounds to me like they're kind of without stating this it
00:38:09
sounds to me like the current state of the investigation or at least the working theory is that they were likely
00:38:15
abducted by someone unknown to the victims potentially a stranger and we had several accounts of
00:38:26
what were deemed to be abduction attempts that took place in that general area uh within the Blackhawk County and
00:38:35
this being the month before and during the month of July and we know that a lot of times that these individuals will
00:38:42
make several attempts before they're actually able to pull off an actual abduction so could one of those
00:38:50
abduction attempts be connected to it that's possible 10 years in this case is not solved
00:38:57
and it's very similar to another case that hasn't been solved in 5 years and that's the deli murders both victims
00:39:04
being young female abducted in broad daylight later found dead from public places so many similarities it's it's
00:39:14
like Beyond bizarre to sit here and go you cannot you should not discuss the two
00:39:21
together well on family members with uh criminal history and and Drug history so
00:39:27
by far the most popular theory in the Evansdale case is that it could be the work of a serial killer and of course on
00:39:37
the internet everybody's saying if it is a serial killer well then maybe they've
00:39:41
already struck again and they struck in Deli Indiana in 2017 now less than a month
00:39:50
after the murders of Libby and Abby in Deli Indiana on March 9 2017 we do have uh Sergeant John pin
00:40:02
from the Indiana State Police who would attempt to officially dispel these rumors saying we've spoken with the Iowa
00:40:10
authorities about the case just like we've spoken to so many other agencies with their unsolved cases we are simply
00:40:17
comparing notes at this point we do not have a connection with that case and that case meaning the Evansdale case now
00:40:26
what I would like to take a moment and look at is you can to take this one of two ways and I think it it's an
00:40:34
interesting exercise for either way that you want to take this and that is to look at the offender
00:40:44
profile that was put together on the Evansdale Case by the FBI and kind of cross reference that
00:40:53
with the post crime behaviors that has been presented to us in the deli case on things that we
00:41:02
should be looking for in that with that suspect and the reason why I think that this is a productive exercise to do is
00:41:10
for two reasons one you can look at and see and observe and think about the obvious similarities between the two
00:41:19
crimes and probably what will be similarities to have an argument that they are in fact connected
00:41:27
or if they are not connected then we can get further insight into who our offender is because I think that likely
00:41:36
our offender in both cases is somewhat similar to each other we're looking for a similar type of offender in both cases
00:41:44
even if they're not connected so the offender profile in the Evansdale case states that the offender is familiar
00:41:53
with both Myers Lake Angels park which which is so now they've they've titled Myers Lake uh they've created a portion
00:42:02
of Myers lake that is Angel's Park so that's dedicated to our young victims here that portion of Myers Lake so the
00:42:11
profile says the offender is familiar with both Myers Lake in Evansdale and Seven Bridges Wildlife Area in brimer
00:42:19
County well this sounds very similar to Deli doesn't it what are we told in Deli
00:42:25
We Believe that you are from Deli or work in Deli or have lived here previously so somebody that would be
00:42:35
familiar with the trails in the monan on high bridge back to Evansdale the suspect chose Seven
00:42:44
Bridges because he or she was familiar with the area and knew it was secluded sounds a lot like the moan on
00:42:51
high bridge in the trails especially the bridge because the bridge was not was not a part of the park that
00:42:59
was accessible to everybody meaning that you weren't really supposed to go on the
00:43:04
bridge because there had they had some problems it was dilapidated and law enforcement has
00:43:10
outright said that they don't believe that that's an area that somebody would just happen upon and that would that you
00:43:16
would walk into and feel comfortable with they believe the offender is somewhat familiar with that
00:43:24
that general area and has been in that Park on those Trails on that bridge before and Evansdale says the offender
00:43:32
Blends in with and may be part of the Evansdale Brimmer and surrounding communities Deli we believe you are
00:43:40
hiding in plain sight we believe that you are from the area or have lived here previously or
00:43:48
work in Deli back to Evansdale the suspect likely used quiet coercion to gain the girl's compliance into leaving
00:43:56
Myers Lake using a ruse or threats of violence Deli guys down the hill quiet coercion
00:44:06
likely a threat of violence in Deli back to Evansdale the suspect may have been experiencing stress related to legal
00:44:14
troubles spousal problems employment difficulties Financial strain or mental health issues in July of 2012 this is
00:44:22
very common this is a very common item that you will expect to see in other offender profiles
00:44:30
usually there is some kind of trigger that sets these guys off a lot of times if this was in fact a sexual
00:44:38
predator if this was a sexually motivated abduction then this guy likely had fantasies fantasies that he may or may
00:44:47
not would act on at some point in his life but there could be something that triggered him something that pushed him
00:44:55
over the edge into going from fantasy into acting it out into carrying out these horrific activities the
00:45:06
suspect May avoid discussing the case or showing interest in the matter but is likely following developments in the
00:45:13
media I Believe I Can Fly more so in the deli case that whoever is responsible for that I think they are they are
00:45:21
hanging on the edge of their seat and they are absorbing reading listening to they should be consuming every piece of
00:45:30
information that comes out in that case yeah I'm not the only one that suspects that Doug Carter told us all we know
00:45:38
this is about power to you and we know that you want to know what we know and one day you will when comparing the two
00:45:46
cases Captain the deli case while both seem very similar for some reason and I can't put my finger on it I can't wrap
00:45:55
my head around it but for some reason the deli case seems a little more Sinister than the Evansdale case yeah
00:46:03
there's going to be more coming out and I think maybe it's because we know our offender was out on foot out walking the
00:46:10
park the trails himself right where Evansdale feels likely to me especially with these witness statements of this
00:46:18
possible vehicle the suspicious vehicle that was cited that it was probably more
00:46:24
of a snatch and grab situ where somebody was out trolling looking for a victim and found them right
00:46:31
unfortunately found these two girls and likely if they were out trolling for a victim may find someone even if they
00:46:42
had not spotted L and Elizabeth that leads me to the next item in the profile the offender may have attempted to
00:46:50
abduct children or adults in the past this I think is an absolute I think that this is somebody that probably if it was
00:46:57
in fact a a stranger on Stranger abduction I think that this was somebody that was out trolling looking for a
00:47:04
victim and probably went out trolling before and for whatever reason did not was not successful in obtaining a victim
00:47:13
the other thing too that I think is interesting and I know that age is the hardest factor to determine when putting
00:47:21
together your profile right and we don't even have any kind of physical description in the Evansdale case other
00:47:27
than these possible Vehicles suspicious vehicles at least in Deli we know we're looking for a white male that's shitty
00:47:34
and Shady let me run some things by you here real quick MH these are just three off of the top of my head offenders that
00:47:44
fit into this s this same statement the offender may have attempted to abduct children or adults in the past now we
00:47:51
talk so much about the importance of victimology yes this offender could be out trolling looking for a child
00:48:00
victim but there are also offenders out there that were known to abduct both adults and
00:48:08
children and so let's go through through one in fact is Ted Bundy known to all of us whose
00:48:16
victims ranged in age from 12 to 26 now while he seemed to strongly prefer College age victims when he was
00:48:24
desperate to find a victim he would go and seek out younger victims we know this because in May of 75 Bundy abducted
00:48:35
Lynette Culver aged 12 he abducted her from her Junior High School in Idaho yeah he could have gone to that
00:48:43
Junior High School looking for any age of victim but he's not an idiot you would think that he had some idea I
00:48:51
might be finding a child victim if I'm going to a junior high school and then in February of 78 he did it again Bundy
00:48:58
abducted Kimberly leech aged 12 another 12-year-old abducted from her Junior High School in Lake City Florida now we
00:49:05
know that the rest of his victims were ages 17 or older and again most of his victims he seemed to prefer College age
00:49:13
victims but then we have somebody that's that's very similar Brian dougen he was
00:49:19
a serial rapist and the killer of three victims two of them were young 10 and seven years of age Brian
00:49:26
actually committed a crime incredibly similar to the Evansdale murders when on June 2nd 1985 Melissa auran and her
00:49:34
8-year-old friend opal Horton were riding their bikes in Illinois when they were confronted by Dugan he grabbed Opel
00:49:42
first and threw her into his car but the girl managed to escape while Dugan was overpowering
00:49:49
Melissa he later sexually assaulted and killed acrian and her body was located about 15
00:49:57
miles away she was not found for several weeks now what's interesting to me about
00:50:04
that case here Captain is both these girls were on their bikes what did he take and what did he
00:50:11
attempt to take he took a girl and he attempted to take the other girl he did not attempt to take either bike he was
00:50:19
driving a car you know what I mean like if if we're going to look at Evansdale and say
00:50:25
well there's a chance that the offender or the offenders took the girls and wanted to conceal the bikes and they
00:50:31
plac them there I don't believe that the girl threw her purse over the fence I think that was a fender
00:50:38
Behavior right should we be looking for a car for for you know Dugan didn't have
00:50:44
the ability to take the girls in and their bikes because he had limited amount of space in in his vehicle that
00:50:51
he was going to abduct them in mhm then we have John Miller who was responsible for April
00:51:00
Tinsley's murder in 1988 he admitted after he was caught all these years later that he drove around frequently
00:51:11
and that he picked April at random and he said that he had gone out on several occasions before and several
00:51:19
occasions after he abducted and killed April Tinsley and he had looked for other child victims during during those
00:51:26
times for whatever reason he didn't take them often the simplest reason why he did not take them was because they were
00:51:32
not alone April unfortunately was alone when he spotted her now clearly our Evansdale person or
00:51:42
persons didn't have an issue with taking two victims which we is much more risky
00:51:48
Behavior now one thing that's interesting to me those are just three examples here
00:51:56
but let's also look at the age of these offenders Bundy was 27 and two months old when he started
00:52:06
his horrific Behavior Brian Dugan was 26 and a half and John Miller is 28 years old and 9 months old they're
00:52:19
all in their late 20s so in this Evansdale case you may be looking for somebody in their mid to late 20s at
00:52:25
some point this Behavior goes from fantasy to Let's Take Action and make it a reality we'll continue on with
00:52:37
the offender profile following The Disappearance the suspect may have altered his or her physical appearance
00:52:43
such as changing hairstyle and facial hair the offender's vehicle may have also been altered with a new paint job
00:52:52
or reupholstery and then they go on to say that the analyst's experience with prior
00:52:58
abduction cases points to one person being involved but there are cases where more than one person was involved I'm a
00:53:06
little confused by some of their word choices here Captain right right they finish up their profile by stating our
00:53:16
experience is that one person it all points to one person being involved one person did this and I agree
00:53:24
with that that that's well beyond the anything that would suggest that more than one person committed this and
00:53:35
I I think that that's interesting because throughout their offender profile they are only referencing one
00:53:42
person during that offender profile they don't say persons or person you know person or persons suspect or
00:53:50
suspects they they constantly reference an individual and then they finish up their profile by
00:53:55
saying um we believe based off a prior experience that one person committed this so it seems to be it seems to be a
00:54:03
a thought out choice of of stating just an individual throughout the course of that profile what is weird though to is
00:54:11
the choice of including she he or she several times throughout the course of this
00:54:19
profile does that mean that they've not ruled out the possibility that that a single woman
00:54:26
committed this crime well my issue with this case and and and you could connect it again just to the deli frustration I
00:54:34
mean any of these cases Amy mahalic for example good example any case that goes uh a time period where law enforcement
00:54:42
is just not sharing any information it's like I know you have to hold so much back cuz you need
00:54:49
to I know you have to hold so much back because once you do have a suspect that you want to charge you have to bring him
00:54:56
to trial you have to bring them to trial you have to try to get a conviction but
00:55:02
you don't even get them to trial if you don't share some of this information at this point in your investigation you're
00:55:09
exactly right because what you have here is we do know that in the Evansdale case
00:55:14
at least two people came forward with false confessions and they were able to rule those out based off of their hold
00:55:20
back information but you're exactly right from where I sit here in the garage what I can see this case
00:55:27
unfortunately and I hope that none of the families are listening when I say this this case doesn't seem to be going
00:55:34
anywhere no it doesn't seem like there's any recent movement on this case well and
00:55:40
this case has been unsolved for longer than one of the victims was even alive good point and I don't fault the local
00:55:49
law enforcement I don't fault the persons in charge up to a certain point because they did lot of Hardcore work on
00:55:56
this case and on this investigation they involved other agencies something that we like to see here in the garage they
00:56:02
went as far as to meeting with the FBI and going in front of experts and saying please experts tell us from your expert
00:56:10
opinion and your expertise what we should be looking for how to direct this investigation I I love when people are
00:56:17
humble like that and they say help me help me solve this yeah there's nothing more annoying
00:56:25
in these cases when you see these ignorant sheriffs or an ignorant individual that's in charge of an
00:56:30
investigation and refuses help or to let any outside sources or resources get involved to help them solve the case
00:56:38
that they throw it all on their own shoulders and then guess what nobody gets any
00:56:42
justice but you're right Captain 10 years later there's a lot of information that it seems like could be released to
00:56:50
the public that we could crowdsource some of this there's a chance that they've interviewed the person or persons
00:57:00
responsible in this case there's a very high probability that that name will appear somewhere in their case
00:57:07
File they just need some help to push this thing to the next step to creating a suspect pole because
00:57:17
it sounds based off of the information that they've released they don't have a suspect pull we spent a good deal of
00:57:23
time in our previous episodes covering a suspect that the captain and I both agreed we could not get past we didn't
00:57:30
say he did it but he committed similar crimes and he's a horrible individual he took his own
00:57:37
life and later law enforcement says they are confident that he's no longer a person
00:57:44
of interest in this case that's the only person of interest we've ever seen publicly announced in this case right
00:57:50
he's dead they're confident he's no longer a person of interest in this case they wouldn't go into reasons
00:57:57
why other than to state that there were forensic things forensic items that were
00:58:02
found that they believe did not connect him to this case he's forensically he's not connected to
00:58:10
this case I'm hoping that that means that they have some kind of forensics to eliminate or include certain people
00:58:20
in that potential suspect pool but if you don't have a suspect pool at the moment Now's the Time the 10year
00:58:26
anniversary shout out from the mountain tops get all of your local media piece people together and say we need your
00:58:34
help to spread the word on this we are going to take one last shot let's toss up a Hail Mary Hallelujah and see if we
00:58:43
can solve this thing right and that's what we're going to ask of all of you out there listening
00:58:49
today law enforcement these families this community they need your help and if you can help there is a reward a
00:58:58
very substantial reward in this case let's prosecute the person or person's responsible for this double homicide of
00:59:10
two little children let's get Justice some form of justice for these girls do the right
00:59:19
thing if you have any information at all anything at all don't question it give it to law enforcement let them vet
00:59:28
it do the right thing call 855 300 tips that's 85530 tis or 31 9232 6822 you could also email any
00:59:48
information if you feel more comfortable doing that send that information to our
00:59:54
Miss missing Iowa girls at DPS do. [Music] [Applause] [Music] us me I thank you so much for joining us here in
01:00:29
the garage make sure you subscribe to the podcast and make sure you tell a friend Colonel do we have any
01:00:35
recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week we are recommending trailed one woman's quest to solve the
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shann andoa murders by the great Katherine miles I got to tell you we're sitting here and it's getting to be mid
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out again it's called trailed one woman's quest to solv the shenendoa murders by Katherine miles this is a
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riveting Deep dive into the unsolved murders of two free spirited young women in the wilderness and a journalist
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Obsession and a new theory of who might have done it so check out that great title and many other wonderful
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recommendations on our recommended page at True Crime garage.com and until next week be good
01:01:27
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