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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] details welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:44
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that's so hip
00:01:50
he wants to distribute our show through vinyl he is the captain yeah can you dig
00:01:56
it man it's good to be seen and it's good to see you you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a
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[Music] friend this week we're drinking you're a good man Charlie Brown Ale by Santa Cruz
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Mountain Brewing garage grade three and 3/4 bottle caps out of five your good man Charlie Brown Ale is brewed with
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roasted malts and English ale yeast for a nice crisp and classic finish and today's beer was brought to us by these
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friends of the garage right here first up we have Laura in Pittsfield New Hampshire and a big shout out to Sarah
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and acan Ohio next a big cheers mates to johanes from Sweden she would like to be
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on the parts Unknown police force well first you're going to have to Frisk me I would wear two pairs of gloves a big we
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like your jib to Sarah from Baltimore Maryland and a cheers to Claire in Albuquerque New Mexico and last but
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click on the Donate button b e r n beer run and that's enough of the beers all right boys and girls gather around grab
00:03:18
a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] my mother worked at the campus and I had
00:03:56
an a sticker on my car and obvious access or night to the campus I was picking up some very lovely young women
00:04:03
you know what we were talking about as we're driving around almost as often as not this guy that's going around doing
00:04:10
this stuff and the second they started talking that they didn't realize it but they were getting a free ride I couldn't
00:04:16
touch that with a 10-ft pole I swear you know but they' be telling me what all about this guy and there comparing notes
00:04:22
and speculating on what he looks like how he carries himself why he's doing this stuff telling me about it it's
00:04:29
getting easy iier to do I was getting better at it I was getting less detectable I started flaunting that
00:04:36
invisibility severing a human head two of them at night in front of my mother's residence with her at home my neighbors
00:04:43
at home upstairs their picture window open the curtains open 11:00 at night the lights are on all they have to do is
00:04:49
walk by look out and I've had it why did you keep the heads why'd you cut them off and why did you keep them something
00:04:56
out of my childhood I could put it on an incident I mean my father chopping the heads off
00:05:02
of our two pet chickens and my mother insisting that I eat them for dinner uh you know we could say it was
00:05:09
something that simple I don't think it was now my dad heads out back with a hatchet I got on my bike and I rode I
00:05:17
tried to stop it I remember that I got on the bike rode around the block I was crying haven't talked about that for a
00:05:24
lot of years I'm sure that may have implemented something that may have gotten something rolling but along
00:05:30
fantasy lines but it took a lot of years of development along those lines to really get off but how are you able to
00:05:37
in one minute have someone's head in your hands and very shortly there living through a
00:05:45
fantasy however that would relate to that severed head and then 5 minutes later I'd put that away and there' been
00:05:53
a knock on the door and I'd put it away and answer the door and the land lady would be there and we discuss it discuss
00:06:01
what reality her reality not mine some people go crazy at that point I felt it it was
00:06:09
one hell of a tweak I mean to just flip out and not know where I was to be walking up the stairs with a camera bag
00:06:17
that belonged to a young woman that had her severed head in it walking up to my apartment past a
00:06:25
happy young couple coming down the stairs who nodded and smiled at me as they went by good evening and they're
00:06:33
going out on a date where I'd love to be going and I'm aware of both of these realities and the the distance between
00:06:40
those two was so dramatic so amazing so violent that that really I can feel the wheel squeaking inside that was really
00:06:49
pulling on it and I imagine at that point some people break but I didn't literally go insane I didn't get
00:06:56
[Music] lost Edmund keer was committed to the at Tuscadero state hospital for the
00:07:08
criminally insane he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia this was a unique
00:07:14
situation though we have young Ed keer living at the state hospital for the criminally insane keeping in mind Ker's
00:07:22
high IQ now add in Ker's personality he is of the type that flourishes in this environment think about it he's the type
00:07:32
that if you put him in a situation he's been rejected his entire life all he wants to do is feel like he fits in or
00:07:40
not have to be in a situation of being rejected again this is not up to him to be there he's required to be there
00:07:48
considered by most to be a model inmate so he's granted Privileges and one of these privileges is that he is
00:07:57
delivering test and test results to from office to office so during the course of
00:08:02
this time when he's running these tests and running the results of these tests from one office to another he's reading
00:08:09
them he's perusing the files he's looking through the papers he's memorizing things diagnosis treatments
00:08:16
desired results all of this stuff so later he would be able to manipulate this system he's in there he's talking to
00:08:27
psychiatrists he's talking to people studying him he's talking to people that are trying to treat him and he's he's
00:08:34
able to give them answers and responses that may not be truthful that may be learned behaviors learned responses he's
00:08:42
in fact learning what they want to hear from him well do you believe that at this age that Ed wanted to be fixed
00:08:53
himself I don't know I don't know that he considered there to be something wrong wrong with him in the
00:09:00
sense that we would consider there to be something wrong with him he considers there's that there's something wrong
00:09:06
with him because he's rejected by everybody that's been in his life so he knows hey there must be something wrong
00:09:11
with me because I've been rejected by all these people but what we see is somebody that has killed two people
00:09:18
that's very different than what he sees right he kind of sees himself more as a victim where we see somebody that
00:09:25
couldn't cope couldn't handle whatever his environment was in his reaction to such was killing two innocent people
00:09:33
regardless we we will never know if he wanted to be fixed cured whatever you want to label it we will never know if
00:09:41
he even wanted to receive treatment we will never know if the treatment actually in fact worked when
00:09:47
you're given all the answers to a test how does anyone determine if you actually learned anything right you know
00:09:54
he's essentially just memorizing what they want to hear from him what they want his response to be and at this time
00:10:00
you know you and I kind of chatted yesterday a bit about well he could have been a mass murderer at age 15 and then
00:10:08
we probably would have locked them up forever and that's you're more likely right than I am in that conversation
00:10:15
that we had of course well not of course you we can't just brush it aside so quickly no I meant because it was coming
00:10:21
from me well you're you're not just right because you are who you are Captain the thing is in this country at
00:10:30
that time late in the 60s in the early 70s especially in California and look Californians don't
00:10:39
get all upset with the colonel I didn't do this I wasn't the I can't go back and
00:10:43
change history but what the history of it is is our country not just in California but especially in
00:10:51
California this country was was hellbent on the thought of Rehabilitation at that
00:10:57
time right you know know we talked on this show several times about why was there so many serial killers in the 70s
00:11:04
and 80s well it it has there's so many factors that go into that but some of that is the simple thought of this we
00:11:13
have at the time California going you know what oh you killed two people we can fix
00:11:19
you let's just talk let's lock you up for a little bit we're going to and not only that we're going to surround You by
00:11:25
other people that we've deemed to be not only violent but criminally insane yeah
00:11:30
and your IQ depending on who you talk to could be near genius level as high as 146 we're going to put you in an
00:11:37
environment that you can learn from our doctors which we want you to learn from our doctors right yeah it's not going to
00:11:43
be a basement there's not going to be rats we want you to learn from the treatment right mhm guess what you don't
00:11:49
want a 6'9 300 lb guy with an IQ of 146 to learn from the criminals that you've surrounded him with the adult criminals
00:11:59
the criminally insane people that you've surrounded him with he's now learning from them as well and the problem that
00:12:06
we had back in the the late 60s was we were doing this with killers and I say we because other states were doing it as
00:12:12
well we're still doing it on some level we were doing it with killers and we were doing it with uh child molesters
00:12:18
and people that would would would reoffend and were like well we can fix it and you know one big problem that
00:12:24
this country had and a lot of countries had back then was we didn't never have a
00:12:29
good understanding of these people that were raping children at that time we were almost identifying it as something
00:12:36
to being equal as homosexuality which of course now we're all educated and smart
00:12:42
enough to know that they have nothing to do with one another right never have and
00:12:45
never will and so back then we thought we could even cure something like that and we just throw them back out on the
00:12:51
streets and we would see oh they also thought they could cure homosexuality they would have these they still to this
00:12:57
day think they can and they have these these uh Church groups that you go out you know all men church group that go
00:13:03
out in the woods and and and they can pray away the gay well and of course you know we we've we've discussed it on our
00:13:10
show several times you know even States like Texas Florida Ohio everybody was releasing these very dangerous
00:13:18
individuals and then you have somebody as smart as Edon keer and look I'm not blaming the system especially in this
00:13:25
specific instance because we have a guy that was smart enough to figure out a way to manipulate the system right okay
00:13:33
so we can't blame the system for being tricked yeah but you know we need to take a look at some of these systems
00:13:39
that we've had in place for years and and correct some of that stuff well and that that's what I think we've learned
00:13:45
throughout these last few decades is really how quote unquote curable is what somebody be that's already committed
00:13:54
double homicide right maybe the method for releasing this individual is not to just have him check in once a week with
00:14:02
somebody and go talk to him and the person goes yeah he's still fine yeah cuz he's fine until he's not right he's
00:14:08
fine until he's not's fine until he's decapitating somebody he was fine for 15 years until he shot his grandmother in
00:14:15
the back three times right Ed keer is released to his mother's care which is another horrible idea oh this is great
00:14:23
the person that he hates the most during the talking yeah you think they would have figured that out like go we can't
00:14:29
release him to the mother you know what I will say in the defense of those that were helping him with his treatment at
00:14:35
the time they did tell the state you can't release him to his mother like you could the dad probably didn't want him
00:14:42
you could release this guy yeah but see that's the problem when a lot of a lot of states and I know that it varies from
00:14:50
state to state but from my understanding California I believe Ohio is the same way California even as an adult if
00:14:58
you're like pared if they release you on parole the first thing before considering you for parole they say well
00:15:05
where are you going to go to live well you've been in prison you don't you don't you haven't had a job you don't
00:15:10
have any money you don't have a residence so you have to go live with somebody else somebody has to agree to
00:15:17
take you in Ed keer has nobody but mama and Mama probably didn't want to take him in either but right she does for
00:15:25
whatever reason and so he's released to her care so now he's on parole and he's like we said 6' n he weighs 280 lbs
00:15:34
heavyweight champion of the world well and he's released into a world that he just simply doesn't understand yeah you
00:15:41
know he spent more than a quarter of his life locked up and with people older than him well he he also says things
00:15:48
like that like I I I couldn't even imagine what it wouldd be like to go talk to a female mhm that's kind of odd
00:15:58
yeah I mean like maybe at first like when you're 10 it's a little strange after that it's like yeah it might be
00:16:05
frightening to people but it's like if you find yourself in conversation like in the line at a you know Burger King to
00:16:13
get a whopper or something you find yourself talking to a lady that's not that strange to 98% of the the men out
00:16:21
there yeah and I mean but we have this though too we have the thought of you know keep in mind the people his age in
00:16:27
196 California they were free-spirited California they almost spoke a different language than keer and as you said he
00:16:36
had no experience with with women but I mean as a young adult he had no experience being out in the real world
00:16:43
as a young adult this is my issue with when they're always talking about almost genius level IQs but not smart enough to
00:16:51
figure out so much [ __ ] in life but I don't know that he had the tools to be equipped to do so and regardless I mean
00:17:01
I was thinking about this the other day you know let's say he's out and he's talking to um a woman his age right or
00:17:09
you know older younger whatever it doesn't matter where'd you go to high school oh I didn't go to high school
00:17:13
because I shot my grandparents and I've been locked up in a house hospital for the criminally insane right for the past
00:17:20
five or six years but I was a good patient yeah and I helped the staff well not only is he out but like we said he's
00:17:27
in his mother care or living with his mother and once again he's experiencing her verbal abuse right now he did get
00:17:36
his GED once he was out and he wanted to be a police officer but instead he landed at a job with the California
00:17:43
division of Highways he saved his money and eventually purchased a yellow 1969 Ford Galaxy vehicle this is a two-door
00:17:53
car mhm so for 2 years Ed is working he's trying to adjust to civilian life trying to fit in he's you know just out
00:18:01
there living doing his thing uh he's with his mother in Santa in the Santa Cruz area his mother now separated from
00:18:09
her third husband she's working as a secretary at the newly open University of California Santa Cruz Ed with his car
00:18:19
made a practice of picking up the beautiful young college female students that were you know in the area looking
00:18:26
for a ride looking to Hitch hike which was very common back then well and wasn't this because since his mom worked
00:18:33
at the school he had some kind of school identification on his vehicle yeah he had some kind of sticker I don't know if
00:18:40
it was for parking purposes or just to be able to get on and you know onto the campus area and drive around well but
00:18:48
that was probably so good for him be because if especially if you go to a small College when you see that sticker
00:18:55
on somebody's car or you see that thing hanging from their mirror it almost makes you like reassured that they're
00:19:01
okay this person's okay yeah you identify with them and you probably would think uh maybe they're a student
00:19:07
you know so looking to get into a car looking to hitchhike somewhere you would be willing to get in his vehicle seeing
00:19:14
the sticker is the general thought now he drove a lot of young women around for a long time and I actually believe
00:19:26
captain that he thought that maybe this might lead to a date or some type of relationship because we have an
00:19:33
individual that doesn't seem to have the means or the ability of meeting people very well but hey if I do something nice
00:19:41
if I offer you a ride now we're we're locked and loaded here right we're sitting together we're on a journey
00:19:48
together I'm going to take you somewhere I'm doing you a favor we can strike up a
00:19:52
conversation yeah if you can be Charlie cool about it but when you're pulling up
00:19:57
rolling down your window in your banana hammock and you're going oh Excuse Me Miss would you like a ride I can give
00:20:05
you a ride in my car well fairly quickly I would guess this letting women into his car picking women up for hitchhiking
00:20:14
purposes probably very quickly became more about his violent sexual fantasies and just like he learned in the hospital
00:20:22
he is now going to start to try some different tactics to see what works and what doesn't work
00:20:28
okay so you referenced the sticker on his car probably helped him pick up some young women he also said that he had a
00:20:36
look like he had a a specific style of sunglasses that he would wear just when he wanted to pick up hitchhikers he also
00:20:44
had a move too that he would do that when asked if he could give them a ride he would try to act like he was annoyed
00:20:51
like he had somewhere to go like you know looking at his watch and going oh I guess I guess I can help you out
00:20:58
that way to let their guard down that he's not so eager just to get this individual into his vehicle right he
00:21:06
says that he started taking things a bit further each time like he would start veering off of the natural route to
00:21:14
where they wanted to go or start taking them to a secluded location where they didn't want to go right so kind of the
00:21:23
the thought process here is well I'm going to turn right instead of left here and let's see how react yeah yeah worst
00:21:30
case scenario they go uh no you're not supposed to turn right here and you could always play dumb oh I'm sorry I I
00:21:37
took the wrong path eventually he takes this to the point of he starts to keep a
00:21:41
gun in the car with him when he's picking up women yes that way so when they go you should have turn left and
00:21:47
not right he just pulls the gun out and go don't you tell me how to drive on May
00:21:51
7th 1972 keer was driving when he picked up two 18-year-old hitchhikers these women were from the Fresno State
00:22:00
University they were students this is Mary Anne peshi and Anita Luca after driving for an hour he drove
00:22:08
to a secluded wooded area NE near Alam which he was familiar with from his work at the highway
00:22:15
department there he intended to rape the women but while he was locked up he learned from serial rapist to not leave
00:22:25
Witnesses so here's an issue for him he's decided that he wants to rape at least one of these women think about Ed
00:22:34
keer he's 6'9 almost 300 lb he's easily identifiable so he decides hey I learned
00:22:43
from these guys while I was locked up not to leave any Witnesses if somebody's 5 fo10 white guy brown hair he's
00:22:52
probably you know you could identify that individual to police and you not find him or home in on him so quickly
00:23:00
you say hey this guy was a giant he wore glasses and he drove a yellow vehicle they're going to home in on him fairly
00:23:07
quickly yeah so what he decided to do is he tied up the girl that he wanted to rape and he put Anita Lessa in the trunk
00:23:20
of the vehicle he attempted to rape peshi however he was unable to do so and when he couldn't get it up he got angry
00:23:31
with her and he took it out on her and he decides to stab maryan pesi right even though that we heard in the
00:23:38
interview he claims that his stuff works well he stabs her to death and eventually he
00:23:48
realizes crap I got this other person in the car I can't just let her go now she's in the trunk she doesn't know
00:23:55
what's happened but I can't just let her go now so he goes back to the the trunk
00:24:01
he lets her out and he opens it up and tells her that hey she sees blood on his hands and he tells her hey your friend
00:24:11
got out of control got crazy with me I had to punch her I think I broke her nose you're going to want to come check
00:24:18
on her you're going to want to come make sure that she's okay and as soon as she
00:24:21
turns her back on him he stabs her both of these these women at least one of them he slit their throat we have this
00:24:31
situation too where afterwards he kind of goes into an immediate Panic he closes the trunk he's now got
00:24:39
one of the victims inside of there and he believes that he he can't find his keys yeah he starts to panic thinking
00:24:47
that he locked his keys in the trunk of the car and now he's screwed he's got at
00:24:52
least one body in there at this point he might have had two because he did he did
00:24:56
ultimately transport both of them with two of both of them being in the trunk right so he's panicking he's thinking
00:25:04
crap I've locked my keys in there with these two victims he starts to panic he trips over his gun that he dropped on
00:25:10
the ground and he says that when he fell this kind of brought him to like he kind
00:25:15
of had a Moment of clarity there realizing that his keys were in fact in his back pocket he never kept his keys
00:25:22
in his back pocket he says he finds him in the back pocket picks up the gun that
00:25:26
he had that he used to control the women to begin with and now he's going to drive so he can dismember these bodies
00:25:33
and dispose of them on the way to his destination he gets pulled over for a tail light he's got a busted tail light
00:25:42
it's always a busted tail light now I wonder if that was busted before if it or if it got busted during the the
00:25:49
tussle that I don't know that's that's that's interesting but he did he's able to weasel his way out of you know the
00:25:57
the office officer doesn't search his vehicle obviously well of course not so he's able to make it back to his
00:26:04
destination and I'm not going to go through all the details but much like Ted Bundy and other individuals that
00:26:12
we've discussed before on this show Ed keer was a necrophiliac okay yeah he couldn't have
00:26:21
normal sexual relations or sexual intercourse with a living breathing woman hey like to have sex with their
00:26:28
heads yeah well and their bodies frankly we don't need to I said we weren't going
00:26:33
to go into details thanks Captain so he was a necrophilia sometimes it needs to be said and he would dismember these
00:26:41
bodies so he could later dispose of them this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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cheers captain on the evening of September 14th 1972 keer picked up 15-year-old Korean dance student IU coup
00:29:09
cp's family did not own a vehicle and she got permission from her mom to go to a dance competition so she was to take
00:29:17
the bus well after missing her bus she hitchhiked keer offers her a ride so he drives to a remote area pulling a gun on
00:29:27
coup before he accidentally locked himself out of his car W so you believe it it will happen well coup let him back
00:29:37
inside the vehicle and then keer choked her unconscious raped her and killed her
00:29:44
but this is after he pulled the gun on her correct he packed her body into the trunk of his car and went to a bar and
00:29:51
had a few drinks then back at his apartment he did all of the terrible things that we've already discussed
00:29:57
earlier before dismembering and disposing of the remains in a similar manner manner as his previous two victim
00:30:05
is this when he's going to the bar uh that the cops like to go to I don't know what bar he went to that night but yes
00:30:12
there was a bar that he frequented called The Jury Room and this was a bar that was the regulars were pretty much law
00:30:21
enforcement right and he he made a lot of friends he would go in there he's I mean we we've already said this from the
00:30:28
interviews that they have of him online he's easy to talk to he's a talker and he would go in there and he would buy
00:30:36
drinks for the officers they would buy drinks for him they would sit around drinking beers and talking about you
00:30:42
know everything you know everything from the weather to these missing coads well
00:30:47
he would talked so much he he actually knew that he was kind of annoying because how much he actually talked but
00:30:56
I believe in one of the interview interviews he was stating that he knew just don't bring up any of these murders
00:31:02
or any of these cases because if you do then you might become a suspect right and you know for a while with these
00:31:11
three missing individuals you know he knows that he's killed them but for a while they were simply missing persons
00:31:17
cases right you know they all three of them had disappeared we have coup's mother who she phones the police saying
00:31:26
hey my daughter didn't show up to this dance competition she was supposed to take the bus I've never seen her ever
00:31:32
again she phones police and and reports her daughter as missing so for a while they're just simply missing persons
00:31:40
cases eventually they're going to start finding the body parts of these different victims now in January of 73
00:31:50
keer picked up Cindy Shaw um and we would have the same result you know she's never seen again and in February
00:31:58
the following month he picks up Roslin Thorp and Allison Lou so what we're seeing here Captain is what we see often
00:32:07
with these serial offenders we're seeing an increase in the speed in the rate of
00:32:12
the crimes it's like he can't control his urges or fantasies well and there's less of a cooling off period so very
00:32:22
quickly he's getting to the next victim so to speak m so we talked about keer wore special glasses that he thought
00:32:31
made him look more like a college student made him look a little hipper you know he drove the vehicle that he
00:32:37
had the campus sticker on the vehicle yeah keer the original hipster and then he also had different things that he
00:32:44
would do like I said he would pretend to be in a hurry looking at his watch when
00:32:49
asked if he could give somebody a ride the other move that he did which is terrifying and it's really well thought
00:32:57
thought out though on his part is once he would get these hitchhikers into his vehicle think about his vehicle it's a
00:33:05
twodo vehicle so if you're in the back you're already at a huge disadvantage MH because the whole idea that he has is
00:33:14
he's going to drive you to a secluded area and then he's going to pull a gun on you well if you have the ability to
00:33:20
flee that's your opportunity you got to get out of Dodge as quick as possible if
00:33:25
you're stuck in the back seat you're going to have a difficult time getting out of that vehicle also take in
00:33:30
account that he's 69 so his wingspan His Arms Reach the other door the passenger door pretty
00:33:39
easily well that was one of his moves so he would only have a victim in the back
00:33:44
seat if more than one hitchhiker got in at a time right you know cuz the natural
00:33:49
thing is to ride shotgun so what he would do is he would reach over his passenger and he would say oh I don't
00:33:56
think your door door is shut all the way and then he would open the door you know
00:34:00
using the the little latch open up the door close it shut and in the same motion he would drop a tube of chapstick
00:34:09
down into the door so what it creates is it it prevents you from using that latch
00:34:14
to open the door you couldn't he's not locking the door in front of you which would be an obvious move making you
00:34:20
uncomfortable right he's unbeknownst to you he's dropped this tube of chapstick down there now if you go for the latch
00:34:27
it doesn't connect and you can't open the door from the inside of the vehicle right and and a lot of the doors now
00:34:33
when you go to open them if they're locked they'll unlock automatically or whatever they do but this is back in the
00:34:39
day but wasn't it Bundy that just didn't have a handle yeah he Bundy did all kinds of things remember he actually had
00:34:48
um he he altered the seats in his vehicle in some form too oh yeah remember he had him like he took the
00:34:55
screws out of him so if he need needed to just push a chair back or hide it he could right and in 73 that attack in uh
00:35:04
February with on the two young women he actually by this point he's in a bit of a frenzy because remember we talked
00:35:13
about with his first victims as an adult he drives out into the middle of nowhere
00:35:17
there's a bit of interaction between these victim and killer leading up to the killing right with his last victims
00:35:27
I think I personally think he's in a bit of a frenzy because he doesn't even bother to get them very far away from
00:35:33
where he picks them up and he shoots both of them he talks about how after the killing this paranoia of that that
00:35:39
he's going to be caught right away that everybody's coming to get him I wonder if that started setting in right when he
00:35:47
picked up the victim I think that he had developed what he likes to do to the victims and he wanted to get to that as
00:35:57
quick as he could mhm and what I mean by that as we said earlier is he can't he can't have normal intercourse or sexual
00:36:05
relations or or normal relationships with people the way that normal people can right so he wants to get straight to
00:36:12
having sex with their head or yeah he wants to get straight to the necrophilia as soon as possible because you know he
00:36:19
can create hope nobody's to eating their lunch yeah but he can create and make up
00:36:24
all these reasons why who he is you know and how he turned out and what he why he
00:36:29
does what he does well that's because one time when his when he was eight years old his dad I'm just joking but in
00:36:36
the end the reality is this is his this is his sexual fantasy right and it's now
00:36:45
how can I get to that as soon as possible and that's what's tough about some of the interviews for me is can we
00:36:51
learn something to possibly see this early early signs in a child and maybe stop this behavior from happening or is
00:36:59
some of this just complete [ __ ] to justify their fantasy their sexual um fantasies well I think it's a way to
00:37:10
rationalize it right you know either for themselves or for everybody else to understand that this is why they did
00:37:18
what they did but in this situation he shoots both of these young women he actually gets pulled over
00:37:27
with them in the vehicle I mean he's not moved them to the trunk of the vehicle he gets pulled over mhm and he he had
00:37:35
wrapped both of them up to the neck area in a blanket and they were both kind of
00:37:40
just like you know their heads leaning against the door and the other victim head leaning against that victim if that
00:37:47
makes sense yeah they're they're both like one sleeping on the other gotcha yes when he gets pulled over he tells
00:37:55
the officer that both of these women are drunk and he's returning them home M actually he's returning them to his home
00:38:03
but he doesn't tell the officer that right and the officer believes him and he goes on about his way and we've seen
00:38:09
this with several several different serial killers that in these moments some of them are able to not panic Not
00:38:18
freak out and just kind of offer up an explanation as to what's going on and they get sent along their way we saw it
00:38:24
with Bundy you know we saw it with uh BTK but it wasn't necessarily an officer it was um I I think it was another scout
00:38:32
leader or somebody that heed to dmer yeah D yes dmer did almost this exact same thing well for years he's had
00:38:40
hatred towards his mother now he's going to turn that against her and not these co-eds yeah at some point keer finally
00:38:48
realized that his Ultimate Fantasy was killing his mother now it's difficult to say how long he planned such an act it's
00:38:56
likely months or at the very least probably every time that they got into an argument because you have heard in
00:39:04
the interviews he will often reference that him and his mom we got into a bad argument on this night and then I went
00:39:10
out driving around right and so we do know from these interviews though that he was at least actively seriously
00:39:18
planning to kill his mother for about a week or so before he finally did this was 2 days before Easter Sunday on
00:39:26
gooday Friday 1973 keer decided to kill his mother he battered her with a hammer
00:39:32
stabbed her with a knife and he cut off her head and of course he did all of the
00:39:36
other things that we've already discussed that he did with the other bodies M and then we have Sally howlet
00:39:43
this was his mother's best friend he once he cools off he calls her up and invites her over to dinner mhm so she
00:39:53
shows up expecting to have dinner with Ed keer and his mother and as soon as she enters the place he gets behind her
00:40:00
this giant and he basically picks her up with with his arms and he's he's strangling her in midair MH and she dies
00:40:09
pretty quickly many people have suggested captain that given his homicidal obsession with his mother that we are
00:40:18
supposed to think that maybe killing his mother like exercised the demons that tormented Ed throughout his life
00:40:27
because this would kind of be the end of his Killing Spree well let's stay on this murder for a second because didn't
00:40:36
he also say that she went out with a friend and she was drinking and then she came home and uh he'd like pass by her
00:40:43
room or something and she made like some snarky comment like she always does right like oh I suppose you want to stay
00:40:50
up all night talking now yeah now is it true or false cuz I know and look it's your right I mean you don't want
00:40:58
to you're not one for the Gory details but is this just a part of M hunter or was this actually what
00:41:08
happened cuz he claims in M hunter that he took her Linex yeah and and put it in
00:41:16
the garbage disposal there are many different versions of that same story so I believe there's got to be some truth
00:41:24
to it mhm and if you want to take it to the most extreme he says something to the Appo to well the way The Story Goes
00:41:33
anyway I couldn't find his exact words on this right mind you there's like hundreds and hundreds of hours of of
00:41:41
interviews with Ed so can you please say it in his voice I I don't I don't think
00:41:46
I can do it you're not you're not going to even try I don't think though that I think the listeners would like to hear
00:41:51
you try your best you I think the listeners would like to hear you try but see that's how Cameron that's how
00:41:58
Cameron Britain talks that's not how Edmond keer talks but that's still hey that's still Ed keer impersonation now
00:42:05
yeah he's he's he's got the character spot on in the sense that Ed's very matter of a fact matter of fact right
00:42:11
you know he just kind of says what he did he has the look in his eyes the look in his eyes are very similar to Ed's yes
00:42:18
they are they're they're 100% so it let's take this story to the most extreme that I've ever heard mhm you the
00:42:25
most version of the story is that after killing his mother he couldn't silence her voice that she was still nagging and
00:42:35
bitching at him even in death so he he decided to remove her lck and her tongue and throw it down the garbage
00:42:44
disposal and when he turned on the garbage disposal pieces of that or the whole thing came back out at him to
00:42:52
which later he told law enforcement is it made sense to him because he wasn't able to silence her that even in death
00:42:58
she was going to continue to nag him and she was going to get the last word right
00:43:04
but when we listen to Ed talk the way that he would let us know what was going on inside of him is he throws out there
00:43:13
the suggestion that had I just killed mother before everybody else I wouldn't have killed anybody else right again I
00:43:21
have to wonder is this the absolute truth because the reality is he killed his mother and then shortly afterwards
00:43:27
he killed her best friend he didn't stop with his mother right he had the opportunity to you and I were just
00:43:33
talking about uh willpower well we yeah in in one's own will you could argue there's evidence against your theory Ed
00:43:41
he would call he ended up calling the police so he drove to Colorado he left a note this takes you back though he calls
00:43:49
from a phone booth right yeah he and he left a note at his mother's home saying hey you know I sorry about the ne mess
00:43:57
boys I had to leave I got things to do he thought that again that paranoia sets in where he thought all of a sudden
00:44:04
everybody's going to know what he did and as he's driving to Colorado he kept expecting to hear this story on the news
00:44:13
you know breaking news we found two dead bodies at this home and no he never hears that So eventually he decides he's
00:44:19
going to stop he calls Santa Cruz Police from Colorado and he says look come get
00:44:26
me before I do it all over again and the police they initially refused to believe
00:44:32
him you know this is the guy that they drank with at the bar right it took several follow-up
00:44:38
calls for them to believe that he had done what he said he had done and they they even asked him information that
00:44:46
only The Co-Ed Killer would know MH so keer finally convinced the police that he was the man that they were looking
00:44:53
for and he was quickly arrested without incident and charged with eight murders in the first degree now I do want to
00:45:00
point something out here that's that's not often discussed when Ed keer is discussed is there were there were more
00:45:08
difficulty in this case than than then looking back many of us would know of and that was there was another active
00:45:15
serial killer in that exact area at that exact same time as Ed M Kemper which created a big problem in the
00:45:23
investigation so we had Herbert he was kind of killing people at random you know where right we have keer who
00:45:31
has a very distinct victimology right the problem was that at the time investigators believed that all of these
00:45:39
murders were likely connected and therefore made the it made establishing a real
00:45:46
pattern it made it very difficult right because there was no real pattern you have one guy killing at random well then
00:45:52
you have two things also going against you you have a guy confessing and if any more crimes happen why he's in jail then
00:45:58
you go wait well then this guy's falsely confessing but then he's also only confessing to some of the murders so
00:46:05
you're going well why is he only confessing to some of them and not all of them and here's one thing that I'm
00:46:10
shocked of this is a great idea for anybody out there that has time to do it I'm a little surprised that there wasn't
00:46:16
there's not a movie or a book based around this whole idea of two working in the same area at the same time what was
00:46:23
that movie like Kiss the Girls or something Forest where they're operating on different sides of the country these
00:46:28
two serial killers you have a unique situation where two are operating in the same area and they're basically they're
00:46:35
almost apprehended roughly about the same time so they're active for about the same periods of time now we know
00:46:43
that keer beheaded several of his victims he would eventually tell his attorney that he had eaten the Flesh of
00:46:50
at least one of them so at his trial he did testify and during his trial he said
00:46:57
that the slangs were his way of acting out homicidal cannibalistic and sexual fantasies that dated back to his
00:47:05
childhood stating that that was the only way they could be mine referring to his
00:47:10
victims keer said I had their spirits and I still have them keer was found guilty and sentenced to life
00:47:19
imprisonment for the eight murders because there was a stay on the death penalty in the us at the time of his
00:47:25
conviction Santa Cruz County Superior Court Judge Harry Brower said at the time keer you
00:47:32
should not be released from prison during your natural life Edmund keer remains housed among the general prison
00:47:39
population at the California medical facility in Vacaville California ultimately John Douglas believes that
00:47:47
these types agree to talk with the FBI for a number of reasons but with keer Douglas believes he cooperated because
00:47:55
he was somewhat bothered by his crimes and this was a way to make some sort of amends and talking about his crimes also
00:48:04
allows ker to better understand himself Douglas also says that he believes keer was made to be evil rather than born to
00:48:12
be evil but he also throws in there hey we have to keep in mind if this individual was raised in a happy
00:48:20
environment a non-abusive environment by different people right he says I can't guarantee that he wouldn't grow up to
00:48:27
end up killing people yeah I I look I respect John but I also think when you almost become friends
00:48:38
with an individual like this I think that your viewpoints are going to be skewed a little bit yeah I can agree
00:48:44
with that I think that keer makes it difficult to remain unbiased in this situation because he is easy to talk to
00:48:53
you have Douglas in his own words and Bob wrestler and the his words as well stating that you know they found him to
00:49:00
be friendly easy to talk to easygoing and even had a good sense of humor to the point where they talked with him for
00:49:06
hours and would have to remind themselves hey this guy's a this guy's a real monster he's a killer well they're
00:49:12
also talking to other monsters that aren't being as Cooperative guys that are probably just completely lying to
00:49:19
him not giving them any correct information so therefore it's like here once again Ed keer is the star
00:49:39
student here's a little recommended reading before we get out of here today this week we're recommending the allore
00:49:46
of premeditated murder why some people plan to kill by Jack Levan and Julie Weiss as violence remains such a
00:49:54
prominent and troubling topic Nationwide the Allure of premeditated murder successfully explores the reasons behind
00:50:01
the worst violence as well as the most promising Solutions and if you're interested in any of our recommended
00:50:08
reading you can check that out by going to our website true Crim garage.com and check out the recommended page and for
00:50:15
all of our old episodes check us out on the Stitcher app it's free and check out
00:50:21
off the record on Stitcher premium all right until next week be good good be kind and don't
00:50:27
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