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00:00:56
>> [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
00:01:31
for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always, ladies and gentlemen,
00:01:35
the lemonade and biscuits of True [music] Crime. Here is the captain. >> Yeah, it's good to be seen. Good to see
00:01:41
you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Today we are still sipping on this
00:01:49
fantastic double IPA, Graffiti Highway by Trogues. This one is sneaky, people, so watch your back. They mask the high
00:02:00
alcohol content perfectly with a fruit forward IPA. Tastes too good to be 9.5% ABV. So step lightly, friends. Garage
00:02:10
grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and
00:02:15
praise to our good garage friends. First up, a shout to Hannah from Scranton, Pennsylvania.
00:02:23
>> And a big we like your jib and tall cans in the air goes to Caitlyn in Princeton,
00:02:28
Texas. >> And let's go out west and give a cheers. And a shout to Christy in Fresno,
00:02:33
California. And last, but certainly not least, also in Cali, we have Charlie from Venicia, California. Everyone we
00:02:40
just mentioned, they went to trimegar.com and helped us out with this week's beer
00:02:46
fund. And for that, we thank you. >> Yeah. BW are you in beer run? If you're in the spooky season mood and you want
00:02:53
to support the garage, go to true crimegar.com [music] and check out our store page. And
00:02:58
Colonel, that's enough of the Business. >> Yeah, check out the store page. It'll
00:03:01
scare the hell out of you. All right, everybody. Gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
00:03:17
>> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> as strange and just as out there as the Ed Gene story is House of a Thousand
00:03:40
Corpses. Weird. There is another guy from the same state, Wisconsin, down in Milwaukee, where after several police
00:03:49
blunders, they eventually found a lot of similar trophy/necro hobby materials like they did at Ed
00:03:57
Gain's House of Horrors. This is the Dmer apartment of horrors >> located in Milwaukee
00:04:05
>> from Martin Phto's The Chronicle of Crime. The big headline in his book says Jeffrey Dmer Milwaukee cannibal monster
00:04:13
and it goes on to say gay cannibal monster caught in Milwaukee. Parts of his 17 victims stored in his flat. And
00:04:22
there's a picture of the Journal newspaper out of Milwaukee with the headline that reads, "Body parts litter
00:04:29
apartment." >> Yeah. Every time I hear the the name Jeffrey Dmer, I think to myself,
00:04:37
what was that smell? >> Yeah. Phto writes of what finally led to the discovery of
00:04:48
Jeffrey Dawnmer's apartment. And anybody that's familiar with the story, and a lot of our listeners are here because
00:04:56
it's been told so many times, told in the garage. We've talked about it on Off the Record
00:05:01
several times, but FTO writes here, "Despite the failure of Milwaukeee's finest, Dmer had only two months and
00:05:09
four more victims to go." So, this is after they basically returned a victim to Jeffrey Dmer. Phto writes, "On July
00:05:19
23rd, Dmer picked up 32year-old Tracy Edwards, a heterosexual who was not willing to join in sex play or drink
00:05:29
drugged coffee. But Dmer got a handcuff on one of Edwards's wrists and used that
00:05:38
and a knife to hold him prisoner for four terrifying hours. Edwards escaped when Dmer's attention flagged. He
00:05:48
stopped two policemen in a patrol car and asked them to release him from the handcuff. After hearing his story, they
00:05:56
went back to Oxford Apartments to investigate this strange homosexual kidnapper. Dmer offered the stolen
00:06:05
explanation, quote, I just lost my job and I wanted to drink some effing beer. end quote. He resisted their attempts to
00:06:15
come into his flat. An attempt to arrest him resulted in a struggle which ended with Dmer screaming on the floor. A
00:06:25
thorough inspection of the flat uncovered. You know, it's a a fine Englishman when he's referring to the
00:06:32
apartment constantly as a flat, >> right? >> Shout out to the late great Martin Phto.
00:06:37
I was a big fan of his work for many years. So, a thorough inspection of the flat uncovered the following. A human
00:06:44
head in the fridge. Three heads. >> Well, that's where you keep a severed head >> in the floor freezer. Well, apparently
00:06:52
he keeps them in multiple spots. >> As long as they're the freezer. >> A human heart in the fridge freezer
00:07:00
compartment. A blue barrel jammed with body parts and bones. Two skulls in a computer packaging box. Three skulls and
00:07:10
some bones in a filing cabinet. Two skulls in a kettle, a penis in some hands, and another kettle.
00:07:18
>> Well, this was such a blunder by law enforcement cuz it wasn't just that they
00:07:24
released a victim back into the custody of Dmer. But like I said, this this neighbor, she called law enforcement
00:07:33
multiple times and she called the landlord multiple times because there was a funky smell coming.
00:07:40
>> Yeah, funky is probably pretty >> an understatement, right? >> Yeah. Phto goes on to write, "The
00:07:46
Milwaukee cannibals career was over and Dmer was dragged away in custody, howling like a mad dog." He has a little
00:07:55
small caption in here. So, what's cool about this book is, and it's completely at Phto's discretion here, but some of
00:08:04
the larger cases, you know, when you come across them, when you turn the page, and it takes up two full pages,
00:08:10
cuz this is this is one of those large coffee table style books. Dmer takes up two full pages. some of these other
00:08:19
crimes. I will say to Phto, it's a little surprising that that they only took up a a portion, but again, he's
00:08:26
covering two full centuries of true crimes of true crime in this book. And the caption here that I wanted to get to,
00:08:36
Captain, this discusses DMER and race. And phto writes, "While Milwaukey's policemen regrettable failure to take
00:08:45
the complaints of black witnesses seriously may justify the race protest demonstrators led by the Reverend Jesse
00:08:54
Jackson in the wake of the murders. The secondary suggestion that Dmer himself was racially motivated seems illfounded.
00:09:05
Dmer's victims breakdown into the following categories. One American Indian, one half Jewish Puerto Rican,
00:09:14
one Hispanic, one Asian, two Caucasian, 11 black or Africanamean. This mix is very close to the
00:09:23
demographic population of the poor districts of Milwaukee and Chicago where Dmer made his pickups. So it seems
00:09:32
certain that he took his victims opportunistically at random. With all his faults, Jeff
00:09:41
Dmer is no racist, although he found the worst possible way of demonstrating his
00:09:46
freedom from prejudice. The So in fact, what we kind of learn about Dmer over the years was quite the opposite, wasn't
00:09:56
it? He had a an attraction to >> right >> African-American men. He was sexually attracted to African-American men. That
00:10:04
was kind of his preference. It appears and very much less has to do with some of these killers trying to uh target a
00:10:13
certain race because they don't like them for whatever reason. Not here with this one. It it it appears his crimes
00:10:20
were all sexually motivated. as disturbing and as bizarre as they were all sexually motivated. And it appears
00:10:29
to me he was attempting to get men that he was physically attracted to and in some weird ways, wouldn't you say, kind
00:10:37
of emotionally attracted to them in in Dmer's weird way as well, back to his apartment to to ultimately become his
00:10:46
possession. Not his not his companion, but his possession. He seemed to want to keep them forever.
00:10:55
>> Yeah. He almost wanted like a >> play things, >> live sex dummy. And then or a live sex
00:11:03
doll that he could control. But I think the the lack of seriousness that the law
00:11:09
enforcement took in this case was more so uh because they didn't want to deal with the homosexual community as opposed
00:11:19
to well we're not taking this serious because they're coming from minorities. I think it was more like well we don't
00:11:27
want to get involved. this is a homosexual spat and >> well right and correct in a way
00:11:34
homosexual would be minority as well but I get what I totally get what you're saying and and you're you're absolutely
00:11:41
right it's it was a different kind of prejudice as far as the Milwaukee police go as you're saying not so much against
00:11:49
African-Americans more of >> I'm a I'm a beat cop this appears to be some kind of
00:11:57
>> gay spat that I don't understand. And that's when you take when you don't take the time to attempt to understand a
00:12:07
situation, regardless of who's involved in it, you're not doing your job as a police officer. And in fact,
00:12:13
horrifically so. In one of these cases, we know that they the police sent the victim right back into the the clutches
00:12:22
of the killer. Now, I would argue that anybody in that apartment complex that was calling law enforcement or calling
00:12:30
anybody to, hey, something's going on here. Somebody needs to look into this. I mean, all I would have took was one
00:12:39
call being answered by the landlord and doing a a house inspection to go, "Oh, [ __ ] We need to call We need to call
00:12:49
law enforcement. We need to call a lot of people, right? We need to get We need to get
00:12:54
>> This guy has a lot of freezers in here. >> Who you going to call? Uh because it
00:12:59
seems like there would be everybody that you want to want to call. So, you know,
00:13:02
we had talked about Dmer wanting to control his victims, keep them, make them his his sex slaves or play things.
00:13:10
In in Johnny's book, the the serial killer travel guide across America, he there's a lot of dark very dark humor in
00:13:20
the book. And he refers to this as bang zombies, which is, you know, pretty grotesque term, but but really does kind
00:13:32
of sum up probably what Dmer had, at least in his mind, >> right, >> of what he was attempting to do. And
00:13:40
then from that book, the serial killer travel guide across America, there's a stop, just like we're stopping here in
00:13:47
Milwaukee today, there's a stop there in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And they write, "Jeffrey
00:13:52
Dmer, aka the Milwaukee monster, kill 17, span of activity from June 1978 to July 1991,
00:14:02
stating, "Fun fact, Dmer's favorite movies were The Exorcist, The Exorcist Part Two, and The Exorcist Part
00:14:11
[laughter] Diverse." >> Yeah, he he was really into that franchise. >> Yeah. Johnny goes on to write,
00:14:18
"Milwaukee is also home to the apartment building where Dmer committed his atrocities. While the building where
00:14:24
Dmer committed his horrific murders was torn down in 1992, the lot still sits empty today." They
00:14:33
say if you listen closely on a moonless night, you can hear the distant cries of
00:14:39
those who suffered within its walls. Johnny goes on to write, "Dommer took his first life in the summer of 1978,
00:14:48
a few weeks after he graduated high school. He picked up a hitchhiker named Steven Hicks and brought him back to his
00:14:56
house, ostensibly to drink beer, but the goal was to have sex. Hicks wasn't into
00:15:02
that. When he tried to leave, Dmer killed him by hitting him in the head with a 10B dumbbell. Sorry to go into
00:15:12
the the graphic nature of this, but we would later learn, >> right, >> because Jeffrey Dmer later stated and he
00:15:20
he spoke at length about some of his crimes with with law enforcement, with documentarians and and his father. But
00:15:30
Jeffrey Dmer later stated regarding the Hicks murder that he struck Hicks twice from behind with a dumbbell as Hicks sat
00:15:39
in a chair. When Steven Hicks fell unconscious, Dmer strangled him to death with the bar of the dumbbell, then
00:15:48
stripped the clothes from Steven's body. He says before exploring his chest with
00:15:54
his hands and then masturbating as he stood over the corpse. Hours later, Jeffrey Dmer dragged the lifeless body
00:16:03
down to the basement. The following day, Dmer dissected Hicks's body in that basement. He later buried the remains in
00:16:12
a shallow grave in his backyard. Several weeks later, he unearthed the remains and paired the flesh from
00:16:20
the bones. So paired, you know, basically very intricately taking the flesh, removing it from the
00:16:30
bones. He dissolved the flesh in acid before flushing the solution down the toilet. He crushed the bones with a
00:16:36
sledgehammer and scattered them in the woodland behind the family home. Remember, he's still living at his
00:16:43
parents' home at this time. His parents are completely on the outs at this time.
00:16:48
He says that he threw Steven Hicks's necklace and the knife that he used to dismember him from the Bathro bridge
00:16:57
into the Kyhoga River. >> Do we have a a better understanding of the dismemberment? Because a lot of
00:17:03
times the killer will dismember the victim to dispose of them, but it doesn't seem like that was necessary in
00:17:11
this case. Well, to me it feels like he Dmer had the privacy and a lot of time to put in the efforts to make making
00:17:22
sure that the victim was never found. Right. So then 1978 back then there's not a lot of
00:17:29
convictions without a body. There's not a lot of even murder charges when when you have a nobody case,
00:17:38
>> right? And unfortunately, with everything that we just went through, I mean, there's no body. He
00:17:47
pretty much obliterated the the entire body, and he had the time to do so. Keep in mind, too, one thing about Dmer is he
00:17:54
had some level of understandment with things like taxiderermy and and roadkill and dead animals,
00:18:03
>> right? that he >> So maybe it was just a contin maybe it was just a continuation of what he was
00:18:10
doing with those animals. >> Well, and I I think that he had a level of knowhow too that the first time
00:18:17
killer probably would not have had. So example here would be he buries the body in a shallow grave in the backyard and
00:18:26
then several weeks later he unearthed the remains to then remove the flesh muscle tissue from the bones. Okay? And
00:18:35
then he's going to completely destroy the flesh muscle tissue in one manner and then use a different method to
00:18:43
destroy the bones. You can look at this in a couple different ways. Very likely two things are happening here. He is
00:18:52
probably haunted by the body in the backyard in the shallow grave. Haunted in a sense of it could be easily found,
00:19:00
right? The ground may appear to be disturbed. And we talked about this with several serial killers that we have
00:19:07
covered in the past where they some of them say that, you know, right after I killed
00:19:13
this person, I just immediately expected to hear police sirens that everybody knew what I had done and it was only a
00:19:21
matter of time before they came to get me, before they came to collect the evidence and lock me up and throw away
00:19:26
the key. So, he may have been haunted by the body in the backyard by that sense.
00:19:31
He also probably may have known going into this that it's going to be far easier to commit this act of removing
00:19:40
the flesh from the bone if I simply wait. Right? The decomp starts to set in. The breaking down of the tissues and
00:19:48
the cells is going to make this less of a tedious effort on my part. It's going to go much quicker. I hate to say it,
00:19:59
Captain, but he he did an excellent job of completely destroying and obliterating this body and the evidence.
00:20:07
I mean, with with the exception of maybe the knife and the victim's personal belonging necklace could be found in the
00:20:14
Kyhoga River, but that's, you know, that's no small river, >> right? And and how far did it travel
00:20:21
from his property? >> And time is the killer of evidence and water. >> Yeah. Yeah,
00:20:27
>> a lot of times killer of evidence, >> but it's also fascinating with these killers how there's so many similarities
00:20:33
like you were talking about the the isolation that Dmer had for a time period in his family home in his
00:20:41
childhood home, but there's nobody there. They just left him alone. And you see those similarities and like Ed Gene
00:20:50
the isolation on the on the farm. >> Yes. and very likely the some level of mental illness. I hate to use that term
00:20:59
because I feel like it these guys you don't want to lump them in with people that are clearly nonviolent
00:21:07
people that don't have the that have no desire to do any of the terrible stuff that we've just discussed today
00:21:14
is a spectrum. Right. >> Right. It's it's it's an all kind of encompassing term. But this to me is
00:21:21
mental illness. Be damned. This is mental disturbency. Like it this is this is a whole another level here. And and
00:21:30
to put it in its simplest of forms, Jeff Dmer did that for us because later he says it wasn't just that, you know, I
00:21:39
desire to have sex with this man that I brought back to my home and we're having
00:21:43
drinks and we're getting along, we're hanging out, we're pinging around. It wasn't just that he he wasn't into what
00:21:50
I was into. There the part of his psychosis too is as he put it to police was well
00:21:58
I killed Steven Hicks because the guy wanted to leave and I didn't want him to. >> Right. And so in a way he's keeping him.
00:22:08
And then you have to wonder with the bang zombies or whatever, whoever wants to call it, whatever.
00:22:15
We've we've reviewed plenty of serial killers that mention things like slaves for the afterlife or that my victims are
00:22:23
forever my slaves or my property. And this seems and appears to be the first step nay giant leap toward
00:22:35
that mindset. Well, these [clears throat] individuals become monsters. We don't become monsters our ourselves just
00:22:43
because we show some sympathy to these killers that showed no sympathy to other humans and viewed [clears throat] humans
00:22:52
as less than. And and again, somebody could go, well, well, he was isolated, so he wanted to keep this individual
00:23:00
there. But let's remember this is this is an individual that didn't care about the life. It was more his wants and
00:23:10
desires and he's going to do anything to carry out those wants and desires. >> Well, and the other thing too is he
00:23:19
turned away from any other type of companionship, relationship, human interaction that he could have that was
00:23:26
available to him at the time. Now, his his mom was a bit of a train wreck herself. Her the dad was a bit check his
00:23:33
dad was a bit checked out. Uh there was a lot of problems between mom and dad, but he he had a a sibling. He had a
00:23:39
brother that he could have attempted to make an emotional connection and have a a good solid relationship with. He he he
00:23:48
knew people at school, you know, there were people in his high school there. There were people in his neighborhood.
00:23:53
He didn't he didn't go to great lengths and efforts to have real meaningful relationships with other people. He went
00:24:02
to great lengths and efforts to attack, >> possess >> possess, sexually assault this poor this
00:24:11
poor young man, this victim. >> Yeah. And because there's so much information about Jeffrey Dawnmer, you
00:24:15
you see individuals that try to reach out to him, try to look after Jeffrey in high school, in the army,
00:24:26
after the army, in college, even at that apartment complex. There's individuals there that try to look after him, try to
00:24:38
invite him to gatherings or even try to set him up on on dates. the woman that that alerted the police that something
00:24:47
was going on, the woman that that alerted the landlord that something was going on, she tried to befriend him and
00:24:56
seems like would been would have been an incredible an incredibly wonderful neighbor to have. So, yeah, he he turned
00:25:03
his back on on all that. Yeah, he turned his back on. So, so yeah, let's not let's not feel an inch or
00:25:10
[clears throat] an ounce of sadness for this man telling us later that he that he was very much alone.
00:25:18
>> Well, that's where I disagree. I think we can view these people with some sadness or sympathy or and that doesn't
00:25:27
make us monsters in turn. That that shows that we have humanity. The court found Jeffrey Dmer sain surprisingly
00:25:36
guilty on 15 counts of murder and sentenced him to 15 life terms totaling 957 years in prison. Jeffrey Dmer was
00:25:46
severely beaten by fellow inmate Christopher Scarver with a metal bar. Oddly enough, a metal bar very similar
00:25:54
to how Dmer killed his first known victim. a metal bar from the prison gym and then died while incarcerated.
00:26:01
Scarver claimed, quote, "God told him to do it." End quote. All right, Captain. Trick or treat.
00:26:11
>> I'll start with trick. >> I have a feeling you'll get this one for sure. I know it. In fact, what kind of
00:26:18
ship has two mates but no captain? >> I know nothing about ships. >> A relationship. All right. treat.
00:26:27
[laughter] >> This is >> These are not good. >> Well, the relationship one's pretty
00:26:31
fitting for all the stuff we discussed about Dmer. >> Uh, from the serial killer travel guide,
00:26:37
here comes your treat. They say if in Milwaukee, which >> which I say I will certainly go to
00:26:45
someday. In fact, a while back, the boys from Generation Y were talking to us about setting up uh some kind of event
00:26:54
with both podcast involved. And I kept saying, "Let's do Milwaukee. It's like the like the northern middle between
00:27:00
Kansas City and Columbus." So, I assume it's a great sports town, a great beer drinking town, of course. Anyway, the
00:27:07
travel guide says, "Check out the Miller Brewery Tour. It's a 170year-old factory with an awesome
00:27:17
outdoor beer garden. [music] [music] What if I told you the biggest crime story of our time is happening right
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under our noses and we're all witnesses? Introducing Lawless Planet, the new podcast from Wondery that exposes the
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dark underbelly of the climate crisis. From the Amazon rainforest to smalltown America, host Zack Goldbomb uncovers
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for their beliefs, the corrupt tycoons destroying ecosystems for profit, and the ordinary people caught in the
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crossfire. This isn't some distant threat. It's happening right now. Each episode drops you into a battle for our
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planet's future. We're talking mysterious deaths, daring heist, and billion-dollar scams. All with the fate
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details. [music] All right, we are back you ghost and ghouls. [music] Cheers mates.
00:31:06
Cheers to you captain. Now this for our next stop, our fourth stop. This is from
00:31:13
another great Martin Phto book. This time he is paired up with Paul Beg. Another fascinating gentleman. Paul Beg
00:31:21
is acknowledged worldwide as one of the leading authorities on the Jack the Ripper mystery. He has worked
00:31:28
in newspapers, television, and publishing. He has written extensively on Jack the Ripper. This is from
00:31:35
American Justice, Great Crimes and Trials. For you old school followers of true crime television, this is American
00:31:43
Justice, the TV series in book form. Stop number four. Here we go. Captain Norwood Park is neither part of the city
00:31:51
of Chicago nor part of the city of the plains. The city police departments are the two conerbations
00:32:01
have no jurisdiction over crimes committed here and have to leave them to the county sheriff's department. In
00:32:08
December 1978, the citizens of Norwood were not a little surprised to find the Delplaines police staking out 8213 West
00:32:21
Somerdale Avenue, home of nice Mr. Gayy, the fat and friendly building contractor
00:32:27
who had lived there for 7 years. So heading out to Chicago, Old Gayy. Old Gayy. Both Gene and Gayy are, as we said, if
00:32:41
true crime were a town, they would be the talk of the town right now with uh making headlines again once again, both
00:32:48
of them, with Netflix and Peacock exploring their lives and and their crimes and and
00:32:57
some of the stories about them. Yeah, I was a little disappointed in the Edge Gene monster series. So, I'm looking
00:33:05
forward to Peacock redeeming the true crime world with their biopic, if you will, of John Wayne
00:33:15
Gayy. And then we go back to the Chronicle of Crime 1978. The headline here, killer clown stuffed boys under
00:33:25
his house. And the picture that they chose to include that Phto included in the book
00:33:31
here, I'll read the caption to you. It says, "First lady Rosalyn Carter unwittingly shakes hands with America's
00:33:41
worst mass murderer, John Wayne Gayy." And of course, it's it's a picture of the first lady shaking hands with a
00:33:49
serial killer, an infamous serial killer that we now know is responsible for 33 murders.
00:33:58
From the serial killer travel guide across America, we have Norwood Park, Illinois. John Wayne Gasey, aka the
00:34:06
killer clown kills 33 plus. span of activity, January 1972 to December 1978. John Wayne Gayy. He was born on March
00:34:18
17th, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois. His father was an alcoholic who physically and verbally abused his son. Gayy
00:34:26
married into a wealthy family and relocated with his lucky bride to Waterlue, Iowa. Gayy took over
00:34:34
management of the family's Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant and was well known in the community as a good family
00:34:42
man. And it goes on to say at the time he was a member of the local JC's where he would provide fried chicken and
00:34:50
insist on being called Colonel. [laughter] Yeah, thanks for including that. Well,
00:34:58
it makes sense if he was if he was running the Kentucky Fried Chicken, he would want to be called Colonel.
00:35:03
>> Yeah. >> Let the record >> reflect. Yeah. >> That I have never insisted that I be
00:35:10
called Colonel. I just uh they dubbed me that somehow. So when he's out in Waterlue, Iowa, right,
00:35:19
John Wayne Gayy, he gets convicted in 1968 of a sodomy charge of a teenage boy in Waterlue, Iowa. He gets 10 years
00:35:30
imprisonment for this. He served 18 months. [snorts] Let me read from the travel guide here.
00:35:36
It says, "After serving 18 months in prison, Gayy was parrolled in 1971 and moved back to the city of Chicago. That
00:35:44
July, he remarried. So, he got divorced, he remarries. But things didn't work out
00:35:49
all that well as Gayy was charged with the attempted rape of a young man. The charges were dropped when the victim
00:35:58
failed to appear in court. The marriage didn't last. Who would have saw that coming? Didn't last. Gayy's second wife
00:36:07
divorced him due to her husband's moodiness and obsession with homosexual magazines. Yeah, but also if your
00:36:15
partner is accused of something that you probably think they did, even though law
00:36:22
enforcement can't prove it, probably time to move on. >> Well, yes. And and look, I think the
00:36:31
travel guide there sort of only scratches the surface with what was going on, >> right? because
00:36:40
we have more than just the the pornography and and things like that that he's bringing into the house. So,
00:36:46
he's he's pushing back on his wife and the relationship and saying, you know, I don't really care about this marriage. I
00:36:53
don't really care about this relationship. I'm going to come and go as I please. And his business is sort of
00:36:58
taking he he's a contractor, but he owns his own businesses. And they're the businesses are taking off around this
00:37:04
time. So, he is coming and going as he pleases. and he's staying out very late. He's drinking a lot and he's not much
00:37:11
fun to be around. And then this is from Out of the Mouths of Serial Killers by Mary Brett. A bit of a caption here. It
00:37:20
says, "Gasey opened what he called a club in the basement of his home where he allowed teenage workers
00:37:28
of his to socialize, play pool, and drink. Gasey was known to only socialize with the young males."
00:37:35
>> Yeah. But again, what when we talk about these similarities, you go, there's people in society that were trying to
00:37:43
have relationships with these individuals and they they were choosing the the relationship that they were
00:37:51
going to have with their world. And I think some of it, if you really start dissecting the minds of these killers,
00:37:59
their obsession and drive for these sexual violent acts starts consuming their their whole life.
00:38:11
So every minute becomes about these obsessions. And so some people can go, well, there was isolation with Dmer.
00:38:20
Yeah, but he was still going out to clubs to be >> around a certain individual >> bathous,
00:38:28
>> which would have been his ideal type for a victim. And so, same way with Gayy.
00:38:36
Well, I'm going to have this hangout club for my victim type. It's It's really fascinating [ __ ]
00:38:44
>> Yeah, exactly. And then as far as, you know, see Gay is the exact opposite though, right? Like Gayy is gregarious.
00:38:51
He's he's fun to hang out with or at least puts on puts on a show >> until he tries to kill you.
00:38:58
>> Well, and he's raising money for the Democratic party. He's he's throwing parties at his house. He He had bodies
00:39:05
in the crawl space and he's inviting like hundreds of people to these backyard summer parties and hundreds of
00:39:12
people are attending these parties. Yeah, >> he's successful. There were people in
00:39:17
this community that said, "You know what? This is a guy that you should aspire to be like. This is a guy that is
00:39:24
is successful. He's outgoing. He's gives back to the community. He's he's offering jobs to to many people. I mean,
00:39:34
you want to talk, we talk about cubism with BTK and how he was able to fool his family and and his community and church
00:39:41
and and where he worked. Gayy is that times 10. And I mean he managed to get married
00:39:49
twice to smart and in one case wellto-do women. And I I think what happened with
00:39:57
him was once they got in a living situation, he could no longer keep up that image full time.
00:40:05
>> Right. The cubism. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> but also one of the things that all
00:40:09
these serial killers that you've talked about so far have in common is smell. >> There's a lot of stench involved.
00:40:16
>> A lot of stink. Something stinks here. >> So, this says, remember, he served that
00:40:22
18 months. And then it says he murdered his first victim in 1972, had murdered twice more by the end of 1975, and then
00:40:31
murdered at least 30 victims after his divorce from his second wife. That divorce took place in 1976. And the
00:40:39
travel guide goes on to say, "Investigators obtained a warrant to search Gasey's house. While searching
00:40:47
his home, investigators entered the crawl space and you said it, you said stink. You said stench." A rancid odor
00:40:55
was quickly noticed. And then during that search, they found what belonged to a teenager who had disappeared. a ring
00:41:04
that had belonged to a teenager that had been missing for a year. And then with that finding, investigators were able to
00:41:12
obtain a second search warrant for Gasey's home because of this evidence. Ultimately, going off of memory here,
00:41:20
Captain, it was the investigation into the disappearance of the plain's teenager, Robert Past, that led to
00:41:28
Gasey's arrest that took place December 21st, 1978. >> Well, I'm sure they show this in the the
00:41:36
Peacock dramatization of John Wayne Gayy, but many times law enforcement was in his house.
00:41:44
>> Mhm. and then openly asking him, "What's that smell?" >> Yeah. So, so listen to this. We talked
00:41:50
about the arrest on December 21st, 1978. And the travel guide says on December 22nd, 1978, so the next day, Gary Gary
00:41:59
Gasey realizing that the police were going to find out what he had been up to. He confessed to some of the murders.
00:42:07
Later, we learned that 28 of those victims were buried in shallow graves under his house.
00:42:14
He later explained to police, quote, "There are four John's. John the contractor, John the clown, and John the
00:42:24
politician." The fourth John went by the name of Jack Hanley, who was the actual killer. I guess
00:42:31
police decided to settle on arresting the John that was sitting in in front of them. Well, I think a fascinating angle
00:42:38
if you want to research somebody like John Wayne Gasey is is the angle because he was such a community
00:42:48
uh driven individual or at least one of his personalities were and I and I guess
00:42:53
you can make an argument that was it a split personality or or was it just a side that he was choosing to show? But
00:43:03
so many victims were they were those victims just victims of his alone. Is it possible that some of the victims
00:43:11
weren't just victims of Gayy but Gasey and somebody else or or multiple people? Because we do have that eyewitness that
00:43:19
claims that that got away. And it seems like especially these serial killers that have a high body count, you go
00:43:28
there there's normally somebody that got away. But I I believe his eyewitness account was that there was more than one
00:43:34
person there. >> Yeah. And I think thankfully I and luckily I think that there in Gayy's in
00:43:41
the Gayy story there there may have been more than one that got away. There is a
00:43:46
lot. You're right. There's a lot of suspicion on that there. And then we talked about in in this book that was
00:43:53
the inspiration for today's episode a lot of sort of dark humor along the way. Here's some here's some dark humor from
00:44:05
from the the colonel world. Not to be mistaken with uh Chubby Gasey there. So Gayy gets busted in 1978, right? The
00:44:17
authorities are very much busy digging up his house, crawl space, garden, garage, yard.
00:44:27
He put some of the bodies in the river. He was he he had said something sort of sly on the sly to a neighbor or someone
00:44:37
that he he was thinking about moving because he was running out of room. Meanwhile, he's living alone in this
00:44:42
nice house, >> right? But again, isolation. He is well I don't know that I would say
00:44:49
isolation with with Gayy. I mean he he stayed in this guy was the oppos opposite complete opposite of isolation
00:44:57
and with him and Bundy it was weird that they kind of shared that very outgoing nature and trait both of them being
00:45:04
politic politically involved as well and and very much involved with their communities at times. And I had often
00:45:13
wondered with Bundy and Gayy, was that all a part of the ruse? But but I think it goes back to something you're talking
00:45:20
about. Is it some form of split personality? And Gayy almost says that to the police, right? There's four
00:45:27
John's. The contractor, the clown, the politician, and the killer. And I think I can agree with that. And I think
00:45:34
you're right that it is some kind of split personality because I don't see Bundy using his involvement in his
00:45:42
communities as a way to find and get victims or have access to victims. And I don't see that with the exception of
00:45:50
John Gasey, the contractor, the businessman. He doesn't appear to be using those avenues to get victims
00:45:57
either. So it must just be their outgoing nature that they have. Anyway, so back to the the dark humor here from
00:46:07
from my world. So Gayy gets busted in 1978. The authorities busy digging up his his home,
00:46:13
>> figuring out what happened, what number of victims do we have here, who are the
00:46:17
victims? It was years before they had identified some of these victims. Some were very quick. Some took a long time.
00:46:25
So years back, Captain, I knew this older dude from Chicago. He lived there in the later 70s, early 80s. So these
00:46:34
folks there were bombarded daily with gay news, right? Gayy news, serial killer clown news in their home city day
00:46:43
after day, each and every day. What do you call someone from Chicago? Chicagoan Chicago. I like uh how about Chai
00:46:53
Towner? That sounds much or Windy City native. All right. Anyway, so all that's going on in 1978 and they're busy
00:47:01
putting together the case against Gayy in 1979. Pink Floyd drops their now incredibly
00:47:08
famous album. In the middle of all of this, the song Another Brick in the Wall part two is on the radio Friday,
00:47:17
November 23rd, 1979. The day after Thanksgiving, 1979. The album is released a week later on November 30th,
00:47:26
1979. And kind of a weird side fact here, did you know they were still recording portions of that album earlier
00:47:34
that that very month? >> Wow. >> Anyway, I'll save that for the Boom Boxes and Bangers podcast. So in some
00:47:41
very perverse humor, the Chai Towners because of Gayy and all the news that was coming about and that song coming
00:47:49
out all sort of at the same time, the Chai Towners were singing instead of another brick in the wall, another stiff
00:47:56
in the crawl. On the morning of May 9th, 1994, John Wayne Gayy was transferred to
00:48:05
Stateville Correctional Center to be executed. They are going to carry out his death sentence. Amen. That
00:48:15
afternoon, he was allowed a private picnic on the prison grounds with members of
00:48:21
his family for his last meal. You know, all the killers that we've talked about,
00:48:28
this is the only guy that made it to the execution. The other guys died of of cancer. Gayy died of sorry, Gene died of
00:48:36
some kind of complications to cancer. Groves died of hepatitis C and liver failure. Dmer was killed by another
00:48:46
inmate in prison. So, Gayy makes it to his execution. For his last meal, he ordered,
00:48:52
of course, a bucket of KFC, Kentucky fried chicken, French fries, a dozen fried shrimp, fresh strawberries, and
00:49:02
washed it all down with a diet coke. >> That evening, he received the last rights from a Catholic priest before
00:49:10
being escorted to the execution chamber. John Wayne Gasey was executed on May 10th, 1994. His final statement to his
00:49:19
lawyer before his execution was that killing him would not compensate for the loss of others and that the state was
00:49:28
murdering him. His final spoken words were reported to be, "Kiss my ass." Although prosecutor William Kungl later
00:49:38
stated this just recently in 2020 that these words were spoken to a prison official and were not part of any
00:49:46
official statement prior to Gayy's execution. John Wayne Gasey was 52 years old when he was executed by the state of
00:49:57
Illinois. Well, Chicago always reminds me of one of my favorite characters, Julius Pepperwood, ex- cop, ex-Marine,
00:50:05
and one of the best quotes. I'm from Chicago. Thin crust pizza. No, thank you. I'm from Chicago. Julius
00:50:12
Pepperwood. So, speaking of quotes, this from the book Out of the Mouths of Serial Killers. This is John Wayne
00:50:20
Gasey, a John Wayne Gayy quote. that says if Jeffrey Dmer doesn't meet the requirements for insanity, then I'd hate
00:50:28
like hell to run into the guy that does. >> Very good point. >> Well, the guy that did was Ed Gene from
00:50:36
the same state, right? Wisconsin's like, "Nope, Ed Gene. Unfit to stand trial." Um, DMER. Sure. Sure. All right, last
00:50:44
one for the week. Happy Halloween, everybody. Trick or treat, Captain. >> Let's do Trick season.
00:50:50
>> Okay, let's do Trick first. This is a nice Halloween themed riddle for you. >> I have got none of these right so far.
00:50:58
>> Well, in all fairness, you didn't know you were going to be peppered with riddles during [laughter]
00:51:04
>> Yeah. >> during today's garage appointment. All right, here's the riddle. I have a name,
00:51:09
but it isn't mine. You don't think about me while in your prime. People cry when
00:51:16
I'm in their sight. Others lie with me all day and night. What am I? >> I don't know. Ed Gene would tell you
00:51:25
that's a tombstone, baby. That's a tombstone. >> All right. Treat. Anybody in Chicago
00:51:31
knows this. Anybody that's been to Chicago more than once, I would think, would have to know this. Treat. If and
00:51:38
when in Chicago, you must must must go to the Super Dog Drive-In. They have been there since 1948 serving up the
00:51:47
best super burgers and shakes and of course hot dogs. So go and get you a Chicago dog. And just like my old high
00:51:55
school mascot nickname, that's D A WG Dog. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Want to thank everybody for joining us
00:52:22
here in the garage. Hope we kept you company during the spooky season. Hope we kept you company if you're running
00:52:29
around with your kids doing trickor treat. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful
00:52:35
listeners? >> Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to terrify the neighbors, just go out there and you
00:52:39
could bark at the moon like Aussie Osborne says or uh dance in the moonlight. >> Yeah.
00:52:45
>> Yeah. Of course. This week, Captain recommending the serial killer travel guide across America, your coast to
00:52:51
coast tour of terror by Johnny Travisani with Brian Whitney. This isn't your typical road trip companion. This was
00:53:00
the inspiration for this week's episode. So, thank you to Johnny and Brian. The serial killer travel guide across
00:53:05
America is a darkly fascinating guide. An unconventional look that takes readers on a darkly
00:53:13
humorous journey through the United States exploring notorious locations linked to infamous serial killers. And
00:53:22
this one, we're going to go two books. Let's do two. And this one works well in tandem with the serial killer travel
00:53:28
guide. It's titled Serial Killer Quote of the Day. 365 Days of Serial Killer: Uncut and in
00:53:36
Their Own Words, also by Johnny Trevani. You can find those great titles and many
00:53:41
more wonderful recommendations on our recommended page at our website, truerimeg.com.
00:53:49
If you'd like to treat yourself and support the garage at the same time, go to true
00:53:57
crimegar.com, click on the store page. 2025 Halloween merch. It's only [clears throat] here once. We're not
00:54:05
going to sell it next year. It's done very soon. So, treat yourself. [snorts] Don't trick yourself. Just treat
00:54:14
yourself. And until next week, be good. Be kind. And don't live. >> [music] [music]
00:54:45
[music] >> Haday presents in the red corner, the undisputed, UNDEFEATED WEED WHACKER GUY,
00:55:03
champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength,
00:55:12
eye drops that work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes.
00:55:18
And the winner by knockout is Saturday. Pity, bring it on.