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Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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and click on that donate button. >> And you probably want to get this done before you get a swift kick to the
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grundle. >> All right, that's enough of the business. Everybody gather around, grab
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a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. This is True Crime Garage and this is the case of the missing
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Welch girls. [music] [music] >> [music] >> Laura Bible is described as 5'5 in tall,
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130 lb with [music] brown hair and hazel eyes. Ashley Freeman is 5'7 in [music] tall,
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145 lbs with dark blonde hair and blue eyes. [music] She has a scar on the upper left side of
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her forehead. [music] Both are Caucasian females and were 16 years old at [music] the time of their
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disappearance. They have been missing since December 30th, 1999 from Welch, Oklahoma.
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They are both classified as endangered missing. This is true crime garage. This is the case of the missing Welch
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girls. [music] >> [music] >> The Freeman family lived in a trailer home outside of Welch, Oklahoma. And the
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family consisted of parents Danny and Kathy Freeman and their 16-year-old daughter Ashley. On December 29th, 1999,
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the family was celebrating Ashley's 16th birthday. Yeah. And like a typical thing, she's going to have her best
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friend spend the night, and her best friend is Laura Bible. Yes. They are both 16 years old by this point. They
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are lifelong friends. Both were very good students. Ashley was a basketball player. Laura was a cheerleader. And
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both of them were very well-liked. So Ashley and Laura went with Kathy Freeman, who took the two girls out to
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dinner. Some have stated that they went to a Pizza Hut. Others said that it was Big Bill's barbecue, but regardless,
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they go out to dinner that evening. They also picked up feed for the Freeman's livestock and water from Cathy's mom's
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house. After dinner, they went to their local Walmart store. There, Ashley met her boyfriend, Jeremy Hurst. Jeremy gave
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Ashley a silver chain with a heart-shaped pendant that also contained her birthstone. This was her birthday
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gift. And then after the Walmart, Kathy, Ashley, and Laura all went back to the Freeman's home and Jeremy joined them as
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well. Laura already spent the night the night before at the Freeman's house, but
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since it's getting dark, they're going to stop by her family's house to see if it's okay if she spends the night again.
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Yeah, it was it was going to be for one night. Turns into two nights because Laura's parents do not let her drive
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after dark. She's already driving by this time. Her car is parked at the Freeman house. Now, they drop by just to
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make sure it'll be okay because it's well after dark by this point >> and we can assume that they're on winter
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break at at this point. Now, back at the Freeman home, Jeremy Hurst, the boyfriend, he says that while he was
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there, he didn't think anything was abnormal. He didn't see anything out of place. Uh, he says that he left the
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Freeman home around 9:30 p.m., but Danny, the father, he had some relatives there at the Freeman home. And one of
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the relatives said that Jeremy left closer to 10:30 p.m., so about an hour later than Jeremy remembers.
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>> Yeah. But as we know with eyewitness accounts, they can be off by a little bit. Both of the girls the next day had
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things that they had to do. Ashley was going to take her driver's test, and Laura had scheduled a dentist
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appointment for the following morning. Well, the following morning around 5:30 a.m., a passing motorist reported a fire
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in the vicinity of the Freeman's trailer. >> Mhm. When fire and police first responders first showed up to to find
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the trailer ablaze, they put out the fire and inside on the bed they found the body of a female. They would learn
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that this is the body of Kathy Freeman. And they learned that she was not killed
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by the fire. She had been shot in the head before the fire. >> So now we have a dead mother and we have
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a missing father and we have the missing two teenagers. >> Yes. >> Laura and Ashley. the sheriff's
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department, they're going to start investigating and they have a theory. They immediately have a theory and their
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theory is that Danny Freeman probably lost it and he shot his wife. He set the trailer on fire and he took off with
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both of the 16-year-old girls. >> No, he he was known to have a temper >> and he had a few run-ins with the
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sheriff's department. We'll get to that in a minute. The next day, Lur's parents, Jay and Lorine Bible, they are
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at the scene of the fire and the murder, and they are looking amongst the rubble
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for clues regarding the girl's whereabouts. >> Mhm. >> They see the Freeman family dog. This is
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a Rottweiler. So, a very big dog. And the dog is kind of laying on a collapsed portion of the trailer. And around the
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dog, or as some have suggested, underneath of the dog, Jay spots something. And it's clear to Jay that he
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is looking at the dead body of a man, the body of Danny Freeman. >> Always been super fascinating to me how
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in tune with the world and surroundings dogs are. >> Well, the the crazy thing here is that
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Laura Bible's parents, they could tell that Dany did not die as a result of the fire either because as they described
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it, and quote, he did not have anything from the upper teeth all the way to the top of his head. That portion of the
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face was totally gone. >> Jesus. >> Now, the first question >> gunshot blast >> to the to the face. Yes. And the first
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question that we have to ask ourselves is how did the police and the firefighters miss the body of Danny? You
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know, and does this make you think that they could have overlooked the bodies of
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the two 16-year-old girls as well? >> Well, and then obviously that the public has access to this crime scene. Yeah, we
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have a situation where the Bibles were up there looking for clues about their daughter and her friend. And the thing
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is here the once they call and report that they found the body of Danny, they get a little push back from law
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enforcement stating that, you know, we've been over that crime scene and you must be mistaken. Well, what took place,
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I guess, is that, you know, >> yeah, we're mistaken. We just saw a guy with his face blown off.
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>> They they showed up and they put out the fire. And this probably took a good deal
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of time. But after that, once they're looking amongst the the rubble and the debris, they find the body of of Kathy.
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>> They fail to find Danny's body, but they leave the crime scene around 5:30 to
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6:00 p.m. that night. Now, keep in mind, it's the winter months, so it's getting
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dark about that same time. There was a good chance that they may not have found it uh
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>> just due to time by the Right. So by the time they get the fire out, you know, the sun is setting and they
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find the one body, but so let's not, you know, jump down law enforcement's throats too quick. Maybe it's like,
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well, now it's dark. We're just going to stop. We'll start again in the morning.
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>> Exactly. But I don't think they planned on starting again in the morning because
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they released the crime scene. They they they leave the area. >> Well, that's that's an error.
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>> That's irresponsible. Now the Now the Bibles are up there looking for stuff. They find Danny. And
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>> we're also talking about a very very small community. >> Extremely remote area as well. It's like
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6 600 people live there. >> Yeah. So I mean let's just say under a thousand. We know for sure under a
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thousand. >> Mhm. So the Bibles are up there looking. And now once they get push back from law
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enforcement, uh law enforcement wants to take the crime scene back. However, by this point, the Bibles are up there with
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a bunch of their friends and family that are assisting them looking through the debris, and they're actually lifting up
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heavy objects, you know, refrigerators, beds. Uh they're looking for anywhere that these girls might have hid and
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maybe passed away in the fire. >> Oh, hold up a second. That's definitely not what they're thinking. They're
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thinking if they died in that house, it's not from a fire. They were murdered just like the other two victims.
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>> Well, and they're also freaking out because all of the cars are still there in front of the Freeman home. And we're
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talking about a big stretch of land, too, you know. So, there's a lot of area and ground to cover when you're when
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you're conducting the search. But one thing that I found interesting was that the Bibles had said to law enforcement,
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you know, all of the cars are still here. Have you checked the vehicles? They claim that that law enforcement
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tells them, "No, we we didn't we haven't checked the vehicles yet." And of course, you know, the Bibles and and
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their family members and friends are there wondering, "What kind of search is this?" You miss Danny the first day.
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>> And then you've not even thought to check the vehicles. Could these girls be in the vehicles? Could they be in the
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trunk of one of these cars? Well, I mean, again, let's not jump down law enforcement too much because you're
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you're there with your friends and family touching all the debris. >> That's a crime scene. There's two
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murdered victims and you just contaminated that. So, good luck. You know, if you do find somebody
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responsible, good luck having enough evidence to convict them. >> Well, let's talk about Danny's runin
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with the law real quick, right? Uh, and to do this, we're going to have to introduce Shane Freeman. Shane was a was
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Ashley's older brother, >> deceased now. >> Yeah. And we'll have to go back in time
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a little to tell this story. Um, in 1998, Shane was experiencing behavioral problems. The family was ordered to
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participate in a counseling program. This was after Shane stole his uncle's pickup truck. Now, I do want to be kind
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of clear here because I've heard this story a few different ways. Unless Shane was out stealing multiple vehicles. Um
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I've heard it reported that he had stolen the uncle's truck or he had taken the grandparents vehicle. Right.
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>> Um maybe it's the one one and the same. I don't know. But for whatever reason,
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he took this vehicle. >> That's what teenagers like to say, borrowing. >> Yeah. And now there's there's another
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story that has a few different uh perspectives, let's say, on it. Um, regarding this vehicle being stolen,
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Danny calls it in and he reports his son Shane as missing at the same time that the vehicle is reported as stolen.
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>> Mhm. >> Now, Shane is picked up for this. Now, during this situation, the Shane has been abused. Okay. It's
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obvious to the deputy that that arrest him that that Shane has been abused, >> physically abused, like beat up.
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>> That's one way that the story goes. The other way that the story goes was that
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Shane was at school and a school counselor or a coach had noticed that his his buttocks area was was bleeding
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and he was extremely bruised up. Uh to the point where it wasn't just, you know,
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>> well, that's >> it wasn't just mom or dad with a little discipline to to straighten Shane out.
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It was it looked like an obvious beating type situation. And like we said before,
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the father Danny was known to have a temper. So maybe his parenting was getting a little out of control.
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>> Yeah. And this was not the only situation where we saw his temp temper flare up. Um back in 1985,
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>> well, hold on. We're assuming it was Danny that was disciplining him too hard
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or maybe just being a drunk and beating his child. >> Well, what are we assuming here? We're
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assuming that it was Danny because he would be charged with with child abuse in the situation. And what what law
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enforcement would contend that that this was excessive force that Dany had used where Danny is saying, "No, you you're
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taking a family situation and you're blowing it way out of proportion." >> Um, but again, this is not the first
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time that his temper has got him into trouble because back in 1985, he got Danny got in trouble for beating up his
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father-in-law. they had some kind of what sounds almost like a minor disagreement gets, you know, gets crazy
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and out of hand and Danny ends up getting charged with that. >> And that's the evidence of Danny having
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a temper problem. >> Yeah. And after Danny is charged with abusing his son in 1998, Shane does not
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want to return to his parents' home. He ends up staying briefly with the with Ashley's family, with the Bible family.
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And in early January 1999, the Bible family filed a complaint with authorities stating that Shane took some
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of Laura's belongings and her money, and that he also stole several of the Bible's firearms. Well, you know, no
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good deed goes unpunished. Come to our house, steal our stuff. Yeah. He takes he takes some of Laura's money. He takes
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the firearms. Now, the police are looking for Shane, and he ends up taking another vehicle. This is somebody in the
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Freeman family. And while he's out on the run, well, he This is very strange. >> When he takes the other car,
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>> Mhm. >> he does again, he doesn't steal somebody else's car. He he takes one of his own
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family members' cars. >> Correct. And while the while the law enforcement are looking for him, he he
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tries to pull over a female driver and the the female does not believe that this person is a sheriff or a police
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officer. um you know, he's he's 19 years old. Uh he probably doesn't look anything like law enforcement.
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>> And she calls 911 and she reports the situation stating that, you know, there's this guy saying he's he's law
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enforcement trying to pull me over. I'm not going to pull over. I'm going to drive somewhere where I feel safe before
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I pull over. Well, interesting too because cell phones aren't really super popular in 99
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>> and police are already looking for this guy. >> Mhm. >> So, what ends up happening is the the
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vehicle that he has taken it it eventually breaks down and law enforcement locate him on the side of a
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road when they encounter him. They, you know, they're they're doing the traditional things, but keep in mind
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Shane's got firearms with him by this point, >> right? And they know he does. >> Yeah. because their report is stolen.
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>> He had told some people, you know, friends and whatnot, that he was suicidal and that he was thinking about
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doing suicide by cop. >> Well, in this situation, >> suicide by cop. >> Yes. >> And in this situation, he ends up
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reaching for the gun. There's two different stories here. One story is that he pulled the gun on the officer.
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The other story is that he was reaching for the gun. What ends up happening is that the officer shoots Shane and he
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kills him. >> And what will be disputed though is what was the interaction between the officer
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and Shane. This is Oklahoma law enforcement officer David Hayes. He shot and killed Shane on January 8th, 1999.
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Now, the incident was investigated and Hayes's actions were found to be justified. David Haynes acted in
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self-defense. The Freeman's believed that Shane was attempting to run away from Hayes at the time of his death.
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Several of their family members believed that the autopsy results proved that Shane was killed as he he his back was
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turned to the officer, >> right? So, the bullet entry would have been in Shane's back.
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>> We can't say that for certain. What we can say is that the family members believed that his back was turned, that
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the incident was investigated, and it was ruled to be a justified shooting. Now, this is what's going to bring on
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this whole kind of thing that's going on between Danny Freeman and law enforcement because he believes that his
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son was murdered by the police. Now, Danny reportedly inquired about the location of David Hayes's residence.
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This was one month after his son was killed. Investigators apparently believed that Dany was planning some
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kind of revenge uh against Shane's death. The Freeman's claimed that several officers vehicles were parked in
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front of their trailer after after he had inquired about their residence. The way that I've heard that this has gone
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down was that that Danny would go and he would park his vehicle in front of the officer's home. Mhm.
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>> And he would kind of follow around his family members from time to time. And this is, mind you, like we said, this is
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a small town. There's not a lot of people there. These things don't go unnoticed.
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>> And so what ends up happening is we have a situation where it looks like Danny
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might be harassing law enforcement or their families. And then the Freeman's believe that in turn law enforcement
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starts harassing them by parking their vehicles in front of the Freeman home. Well, right. Obviously that law
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enforcement has they have to protect themselves and they have to protect their family.
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>> On the flip side of things though, Danny just lost his son. >> And even if it was based off his own
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actions that he, you know, wanted to have suicide by a cop or or, you know, he was I'm going to pull out a gun and
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they're going to shoot me or maybe he's just going to pull out the gun to shoot out the officer. He he lost his son, you
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know, and and so that grief is a lot to deal with. I mean, you shouldn't go around harassing people, but it's like I
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I kind of feel for him on that on that angle. Now, law enforcement, they start following Danny basically everywhere
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he's going, maybe looking for any reason to pull him over or give him a citation
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or arrest him for something. Uh but he believes that he's being harassed by this point to the point where he informs
00:21:11
his brother as well as other family members stating that if anything ever would were to happen to me
00:21:18
>> um you know look at the sheriff department they're the ones that that are harassing me. And you know, he also
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gave a statement that he said to the fact that when he was uh in some kind of verbal altercation with law enforcement
00:21:34
that they had told him that they could do whatever they wanted to him and Danny's family. There was nothing that
00:21:40
they could do to stop them. >> Right. Well, and >> but this is secondhand. You know, we
00:21:44
don't know that this this interaction actually took place or those exact words were said. Well, we've all been pulled
00:21:50
over by, you know, some jack wagon officer, right? That's just running their mouth, you know, over nothing. So
00:21:59
whether or not a police officer was in an altercation, you know, verbal altercation with Danny and he's saying,
00:22:05
"Hey, we'll do whatever we want. We are the law. Yeah, I am the law." Whatever it is, that doesn't necessarily mean
00:22:13
that they are responsible for these deaths. Well, we have this situation though here, Captain, where two months
00:22:19
after the death of Shane. Now, Danny Freeman, he's got to go on trial for the child abuse charges. And this takes
00:22:26
place in March of 1999. The jury ended up, they deadlocked on this situation because they asked the
00:22:34
judge if they could order Dany to attend counseling rather than to send him to jail or to prison,
00:22:41
>> right? >> Uh the judge says, "No, you can't do that. This is this is the sentence. He's
00:22:46
he's either guilty and he's going to face these charges and get sentenced in this way or he's not guilty. And I think
00:22:53
this is a tough thing for the jury to to make a call on here because we got a we
00:23:00
got a case where we don't have the number one witness, the the the the kid that was was supposedly abused. um we
00:23:10
don't have him there to testify as to what took place in that situation and now you have to question a parent's you
00:23:17
know where's the line when you discipline your child. Um, so what they end up stating is that they he's
00:23:23
acquitted of these charges because they wanted to send him to counseling, but the judge would not allow it. After the
00:23:30
death of Kathy Freeman, her father and mother, they were telling people that, you know, Danny, not only did he have
00:23:37
this bad temper, but he was also abusive to his wife and to both of his children.
00:23:44
Um, so this leads us to some of the early theories in this case. One of those theories being that after years of
00:23:53
physical abuse, Ashley with the help of her friend, they shoot the parents with one of the parents' own guns with their
00:24:02
guns and they flee the area. The next theory is very similar to that, but that the two girls left town with two men or
00:24:11
boys that that may have assisted them in the attack on Ashley's parents. The third theory that we should discuss here
00:24:19
is the police killed Danny and then his family and set the fire to destroy evidence. Theory number four is that law
00:24:27
enforcement wasn't involved and Dany was targeted due to drug activity. Theory number five is that the girls were the
00:24:34
actual target, that the motivation for the attack was abduction, and that the parents were killed and the fire was set
00:24:41
just to simply hide evidence. And the final theory is that someone that knew the family had killed and abducted the
00:24:49
girls. The this would be any example that you can imagine, but you could also consider possibly the boyfriend Jeremy
00:24:56
Hurst who was there that night as well as relatives of Danny's that were at the trailer that night. So, those are the
00:25:03
the six theories that they're working off of early into this investigation. I think we kind of need to look at this
00:25:09
evidence to point us in the right direction and what theory makes the most sense. Let's get into that right after
00:25:15
this quick beer break. [music] [music] All right, we're back. Cheers, mates. Make sure you support our sponsors cuz
00:25:38
they support us. All right, let's get to this evidence. >> Yes. So, we both we know that both Danny
00:25:45
and Kathy had died of a result of gunshot wounds. >> Mhm. >> The medical examiner determined that
00:25:51
Danny's right collar bone had been fractured prior to the fatal shot. The coroner also determined that Kathy died
00:25:59
approximately 5 a.m. that morning. And of course, investigators believe that the fire was intentionally set in an
00:26:08
attempt to destroy evidence of the crimes. Now, regarding the family itself, regarding the Freeman family in their
00:26:16
home, Lorraine Bible told reporters that Ashley Freeman had been saving her money
00:26:22
to purchase her first vehicle when she turned 16 in December of 1999. Lorraine said that she believed that Ashley had
00:26:29
accumulated $1,200 in her savings account. Now, Jeremy Hurst, the boyfriend, >> said that Ashley actually didn't have a
00:26:40
savings account. Um, but Ashley had told him that she had saved between $3,000 and $4,000 for her first vehicle. She
00:26:50
was employed part-time at Rosco's, which is a convenience store in Welch. Uh Jeremy went on to say that that you know
00:26:58
she didn't have a bank account and she kept her money sealed in Tupperware in a Tupperware container in the family's
00:27:05
freezer. Authorities were unable to locate any evidence of the cash after the fire.
00:27:12
Lorraine stated that Ashley and Dany had been arguing earlier in the month regarding the vehicle. You know, she
00:27:20
wanted to purchase a certain vehicle. He had a different one in mind and they were not agreeing. We've all kind of
00:27:27
been there. You know, the teenager has earned their own money. They want to make their own decisions with their
00:27:32
money and you know, dad is disagreeing with her. >> Well, some of that could just be telling
00:27:38
a tall tale >> as well. You know, like, well, first of all, you're telling your friend's
00:27:44
parents, well, I got a savings account. Well, where's the evidence of that, you know, now that they're missing? And then
00:27:51
on top of that, you're telling the boyfriend, well, you got you got three to four grand, which where's the
00:27:57
evidence that he had any money? >> Um the the other thing here, too, which I want to kind of talk about this for a
00:28:06
little bit because because it's very unclear. Now, the authorities at some point disclosed that there were rumors
00:28:12
that Ashley had been sexually abused, but they were unable to confirm these rumors.
00:28:20
the father. >> That's why I wanted to talk about this because it nowhere does it claim to
00:28:25
state by who, you know, could it have been could it have been her father, her her brother? Could it have been a family
00:28:33
friend or or you know, somebody at the school, >> right? >> Um, when you say sexually abused, you
00:28:38
know, your your your imagination wonders immediately who could it be? But we don't have anybody to point the finger
00:28:45
at. The other thing I I kind of thought about here in this situation was we have
00:28:51
you have a whole you know this town of 600 people and a day goes by where the town the people of the town they're
00:28:58
under the belief that the father killed the mother abducted his daughter and her
00:29:04
friend. >> Well, is that long enough? That's got to be long enough for the the people in the
00:29:09
town to start, you know, talking about these rumors. Well, if he abducted those two girls, he must have been sexually
00:29:15
abusing her. Um, and I I wonder if I think it's a little irresponsible of law enforcement to say that there were
00:29:22
rumors of this. Um, but we're unable to confirm these rumors. >> Again, a very small community. So, not
00:29:31
probably the best or most advanced law enforcement unit in the in the world here. And that's causes a lot of
00:29:39
problems because one, you leave the crime scene without knowing how many victims are there.
00:29:45
>> And then then you don't close off that crime scene and you allow people to come
00:29:50
in there and contaminate it. And then on top of that, now we got this third thing
00:29:56
where you're creating rumors, >> right? And and you're you're fueling the fire really is what you're doing. And
00:30:03
and you know, >> but you're creative mo you're creating a motive. And what I'm saying is that the
00:30:08
birth of those rumors could very well be that because they didn't discover Danny's body until the following day.
00:30:14
>> Well, and right, but that's if those rumors are established then or if they're established after. Because if
00:30:19
you establish that, oh well, there's rumors that she was uh sexually abused. You're creating a motive on why the
00:30:28
girls would want to kill the parents. Mhm. >> And I feel like whoever is establishing,
00:30:34
look, I've said it before, there's been several cases that we covered and oddly people will establish alibis, they're
00:30:42
creating their own alibi. And when somebody starts creating their own alibi, that to me, that's a a sign of
00:30:50
guilt, right? >> Mhm. And so it's odd that on the other side of the spectrum when people are
00:30:56
creating a narrative for motive for you to look at some other individual, >> right?
00:31:03
>> And to me that's a shade of guilt. So you're what? To be clear, what you're saying is that the the sheriff's
00:31:10
department by stating that there's there are rumors of her being sexually abused
00:31:16
that that's almost creating an alibi for the sheriff's department because you're
00:31:21
presenting a whole different theory that does not involve the sheriff's having committed any crimes.
00:31:26
>> Correct. And first of all, it's just very irresponsible that you're stating, well, there's rumors. You don't state
00:31:34
rumors. You're the law enforcement. State facts. State evidence. >> I wish we knew exactly how this went
00:31:40
down. And I'll tell you why. Because could it be something as simple as as the sheriff's department's being
00:31:47
interviewed. They're asked by a reporter, "Hey, there there have been rumors that Ashley was sexually abused."
00:31:53
And the sheriff simply says, "We have heard those rumors." >> Right? And that changes the whole
00:31:57
>> then you have somebody later going on the record stating that the sheriff's department says that there were rumors
00:32:04
of her being sexually abused when really they're just acknowledging that they have heard those rumors. I I see what
00:32:09
you're saying with them establishing an alibi. I don't know that it's that for me because for me it for me it seems
00:32:16
like there was opportunity if that kind of stuff was going down um with how close Ashley was with Laura. They spoke
00:32:24
on the phone all of the time and it seems to me like Loren uh Laura's mom seemed to know a lot of what was going
00:32:33
on in the Freeman household. >> Well, she knew what she was told. >> Mhm. And there was also that that
00:32:39
mandatory counseling that took place as well re regarding um the situation with Shane. So, what I'm getting at is I
00:32:47
think there was opportunity for that to come out where I I feel like these are rumors that were just kind of created by
00:32:53
the town's people during that time period that they felt that that she was abducted by her father. And we know how
00:33:00
these rumors go, right? It's it's like the the never-ending game of telephone. Now you got 600 people involved where if
00:33:07
I say, you know what, I bet you he was sexually abusing her and that's why he took her and abducted her and then 24
00:33:13
hours later we find out. Poor poor Danny, he died, too. You know, he was murdered and he was killed, too. We know
00:33:20
that's not true, but that doesn't immediately put out the fire on those rumors. >> Well, okay. So, answer me these couple
00:33:26
questions. One, how does how did his collar bone get broken? >> Right? >> Like, do we know? I mean, is that
00:33:33
reported? Uh, this case is difficult to cover because there wasn't it's such a small town and such a small community
00:33:41
that there's just not a lot of, you know, information as far as it goes on the internet.
00:33:45
>> So, the way >> but how but because there's multiple ways that that could have been broken. I
00:33:50
mean, it could have been that collar bone could have been broken. It's not too difficult to break a collar bone.
00:33:56
>> No, >> it could be broke by a fist. It could be a butt of a shotgun. Um, and then what
00:34:03
what is the evidence that points of what kind of guns were they killed with? >> Right. Well, they've not the law
00:34:10
enforcement has not disclosed what kind of gun they were shot with. >> Of course,
00:34:14
>> that they've they've held that back. As well as they have admitted that there
00:34:19
was an accelerant used to start the fire. This wasn't an accidental fire that happened after the fact.
00:34:25
>> Uh, they know that an accelerant was used, but they've also not stated what what in fact that was. Now the thing
00:34:31
here is if you were to be considering that the girls did it uh or were involved in it, you know, we have okay,
00:34:40
we have a situation where the Freeman's they had a lot of firearms in that home.
00:34:44
They could have under that sit situation or scenario, they could have been killed
00:34:48
with one of their own firearms. Well, and the other problem there is they're avid hunters and the gun laws were
00:34:56
different also back then. So, how many guns were in the house that were weren't registered?
00:35:02
>> I mean, there'd be no way of knowing cuz cuz the two people that would know, >> they're dead.
00:35:07
>> Yeah. >> So, if there was a shotgun missing, we wouldn't know. So, if you have if you
00:35:12
get the ballistics, right, if you if you're trying to test to to confirm if they were killed with one of their own
00:35:18
firearms, you wouldn't be able if that firearm was not found in that home. You couldn't confirm that one of their own
00:35:25
firearms were used because you would assume that if you didn't find it, that it was either taken from the scene or
00:35:31
that the perpetrators brought their own firearms with them. Let's talk about the
00:35:36
the Freeman the house real quick. Okay, so the Freeman's trailer, it did not have running water. Um, it was primarily
00:35:44
heated by a wood burning stove that was located in the living room. Um, the family, as you had said, was described
00:35:50
as avid hunters, uh, and outdoor enthusiast who enjoyed living in a remote location. This was a very remote
00:35:58
location. The trailer was equipped with a telephone and electricity. Uh there were numerous firearms stockpiled inside
00:36:07
the home and Ashley assisted with hunting food. The family would go out and sometimes hunt their own food food.
00:36:14
Danny enjoyed walking outside on their property behind the mobile home. Uh he was a collector of arrowheads. Um and
00:36:24
his relatives stated that he had an extensive collection of items that he had found that were rumored to be
00:36:32
valuable. Here's another one of these rumors, >> but we don't you don't have >> Well, that's causing a motive of the
00:36:38
idea that somebody came in to break into the house to steal valuables and they killed two people in the process
00:36:45
>> and possibly stealing the cash that uh young Ashley was keeping in the freezer,
00:36:50
>> which I would argue that that is more likely to happen if you live in a remote
00:36:55
area. I know that's going to sound maybe a little strange to some people, but I'm
00:36:59
serious. It's like when especially if you I've lived you know my house >> You're exactly right. You are exactly Go
00:37:05
ahead. Sorry. >> But you know my house was out of the city a little bit and if somebody's
00:37:10
coming on to my property to steal something, it could end up very bad for for me or them.
00:37:17
>> Mhm. >> So that that's all I'm saying is if you and you also it's such a small town that
00:37:24
you'd go well they're an avid avid hunter. If I'm going to rob this person, we know how this is going down. This is
00:37:31
this is this is robbery by force. >> Mhm. >> And again, but then that also goes with
00:37:36
the creating the motive because if he has drug activity, then maybe it's like, well, uh, you know, he has a bunch of
00:37:44
guns, maybe he has some drugs there, maybe he has some drug money there, you know.
00:37:49
>> Yeah. And we should talk about this drug activity because there's there's several
00:37:54
>> Yeah. So it's not just rumor, >> right? There's there's a lot of different stories about what drug
00:37:59
activity could have been going on in in the area. So, it's believed that Danny was himself a drug user. Um that
00:38:08
>> Well, but there's different kinds of drugs. >> Yeah. And it's believed it's it's pretty
00:38:12
widely believed that he grew marijuana somewhere on that property for his own personal use.
00:38:19
>> Okay. So, that's that's what's widely believed. There are some other things that come into play here, though. There
00:38:25
are some people that state that he was he was selling marijuana, right? >> That he was in cahoots with somebody
00:38:33
else and they had a little drug operation where they were both moving and potentially growing marijuana. Um,
00:38:40
there was one report that stated that inside the trailer, and I want to be very clear about this, one single report
00:38:47
out of all the little reports out there, there's one single report that says that
00:38:51
they found evidence of drug manufacturing, which to me, using those words is completely different than
00:38:59
growing marijuana, unless unless unless you're claiming that mother nature is your manufacturer of marijuana. So what
00:39:07
that sounds like to me is that they must have found some kind of drug >> equipment, you know, some kind of
00:39:13
creating these drugs equipment. Now I don't think that he was running any kind of meth operation because
00:39:18
>> why not? >> We've seen Well, because this is just my belief. I have no evidence of such, but
00:39:25
we have seen where where certain people will use certain terminology and certain
00:39:31
words and then when you dig down deep and you find out exactly what they're talking about.
00:39:36
>> Well, they've kind of >> they've kind of stretched it a bit, right? they've kind of embellished a
00:39:42
little bit where evidence of drug manufacturing could be something as simple as that they found a small
00:39:48
digital scale somewhere in the trailer that might not have had anything to do with drugs at all. But but
00:39:56
>> right I get I get your point. >> See where I'm going with this? If you if you find a digital scale and you find a
00:40:02
stack of baggies, that doesn't necessarily mean that manufacturing drugs. >> Well, right, but they could be used for
00:40:09
pot as well. Look, if you're growing your own pot to smoke it, I I got nothing against you. And if you have a
00:40:14
little extra and you're selling a baggie here or there to your buddy, that's not
00:40:19
to me. That's not You're not a drug dealer. >> You're just kind of helping out your
00:40:24
buddies. That's not like drug operation. But one report now, let's go let's let's
00:40:32
dive into this a little bit because it's 1999. This is not a wide uh you know, it's not this epidemic like it is now.
00:40:41
You know, heroin and crystal meth and all that stuff in these rural areas. Now, it's killing the it's killing the
00:40:47
country. So, so maybe there's only one report because a lot of that crystal meth stuff is kind
00:40:55
of household items and you might not really know what it was. >> That's true. Yep.
00:41:02
>> Also, accelerant. Well, this stuff is very flammable. >> So, was that what was used for the
00:41:09
accelerant? It's almost like because of the lack of evidence or the lack of them
00:41:14
collecting the evidence or the lack of them presenting the evidence to the public, it just becomes more question
00:41:20
after more question and we can speculate on that all day. But I but to me a a family that's not doing so well
00:41:29
financially wants to move out to the country, which nothing wrong with that, but maybe the
00:41:36
the father was also using this as an opportunity to make ends meet. >> Yeah. >> Like we're going to move out onto some
00:41:44
land on into this trailer, but because we're doing that, I'm going to have some job opportunities and that's going to be
00:41:51
drug activity. >> Yeah. And Kathy was the bread winner. Um she had a good job. Um Danny, from my
00:41:59
understanding, was kind was often unemployed. >> Uh usually between jobs and like you
00:42:05
said, maybe uh maybe selling a little dope here or there was was a way to make up for that.
00:42:10
>> Well, this is what I find. Okay. First, you're the bread winner. You're the mom.
00:42:15
This guy has a shitty temper, you know, and we know that he's abusive to to your
00:42:20
son. So, chances are he's abusive to you. Just leave. You know what I mean? Find somebody else. Some And I
00:42:28
understand you're you're in a town of 600 people, but I moved to another town. >> Yeah. They were originally from the
00:42:35
neighboring town, which had like over 6,000 people in it. Um I believe they moved there just a few years before this
00:42:42
whole incident went down. Um but yeah, I'm with you. It seems like a But again, there's different dynamics to every
00:42:49
family, every relationship, but it from the outside looking in, it definitely seems like the Freeman family was
00:42:57
odd and dysfunctional. >> Well, I'm just saying that she could love a winner with money as much as she
00:43:03
can this loser with nothing. >> That's all I'm saying. >> Okay. So, let's, you know, before we
00:43:09
move on from the evidence and start seeing how that might apply to these different theories and maybe kind of
00:43:15
ruling some of them out as we go. Uh, one more thing regarding the evidence though, the police did state that,
00:43:22
remember we said that the the Freeman's had telephone service to the trailer. >> They did state that there were no
00:43:28
outgoing phone calls from the Freeman's trailer late that night or during the early morning before the fire was set.
00:43:35
And there's no report by anybody that we know of that they had a cell phone of any kind.
00:43:41
>> Correct. Correct. And the thing here is too, um, you know, we stated that all of
00:43:45
the vehicles were out front, uh, that were located on the property. None of the vehicles were missing, but regarding
00:43:51
Laura's car that was still there. Uh, the keys were found in the ignition, this is probably probably just means
00:43:58
that she never took them out of the car. Um, that the house was quite a bit of a
00:44:03
ways off of the road. might not be any need to do so, but she did have a purse and she had approximately $200 in that
00:44:11
purse. The purse was located inside the trailer after this incident took place. So, where you have money that that is
00:44:20
rumored to have been in the freezer, a substantial amount of money, depending on who you talk to, between $1,200 and
00:44:27
$4,000 where that is not found. Um, we also have a situation where there's money
00:44:33
found in a in a purse. Uh, $200 that could have been taken that was left behind.
00:44:38
>> Yeah. But here's my issue with that is law enforcement and a lot of people looking into this case like to say,
00:44:45
"Well, there's $200 left in a purse." So there that proves that proves right there that this wasn't a robbery. Well,
00:44:54
that doesn't prove crap. That just proves it wasn't a robbery for just money or, you know, random belongings.
00:45:01
This could have been a robbery just for drugs or just for drug money. >> Mhm. >> And so that doesn't really prove
00:45:10
anything just because there was money left somewhere. That's all I'm putting out there. It's
00:45:15
just time and time again when you see this stuff about this case, well, there's $200 left over, so therefore
00:45:22
that definitely wasn't a robbery. I don't think anybody's saying that because because everyone's saying that
00:45:28
there's >> everybody that's what is reported all the time. It's re every almost every
00:45:33
video that you ever see made on this thing is like, well, there's $200 left, so chances are it wasn't a robbery.
00:45:39
>> It just wasn't a good robbery. Maybe they made off with the $1,200 or $4,000 that was in the freezer and thought,
00:45:45
well, this is all the money they got. I'm peace. I'm out of here. >> Right. or like I said, I mean, if he had
00:45:50
some drug activity, then that's why that's why people would be there, you know, for his drugs and for his drug
00:45:59
money. >> Mhm. So, do you should we go back through these theories that we >> Well, no, no. I think let's stay on this
00:46:05
$200 right now. Right. >> Okay. >> I think that $200 to me means it starts ruling out the idea for me
00:46:15
that the girls would be involved, >> right? Right. And that's why I asked if you wanted to go back through the
00:46:19
theories cuz theory number one is that after years of physical abuse, Ashley with the help of Laura that they shoot
00:46:27
the parents and with one of the guns that they find in the home and they together they flee the area to go off
00:46:34
and live wonderful lives elsewhere away from this, you know, and I'll say quote unquote abusive father.
00:46:42
>> Well, I think you can say abusive father just on the evidence of physical abuse.
00:46:47
not sexual abuse, but we can definitely say that there is enough evidence that shows that this guy
00:46:53
>> he abused Shane. We're we we have evidence of that. I don't know that we have evidence that he abused Ashley is
00:46:59
what I mean. What I meant by that, >> we have all the speculation or all the the accounts brought up by um
00:47:07
>> you know, her her grandparents. But I think calling somebody an abuser of I it's a very powerful label to to put on
00:47:16
somebody >> and and I see what you're getting at. I Half of me agrees with you, but the
00:47:22
other half of me I'm talking about >> well half of you is smart and the other half is is
00:47:26
>> and the smart half the smart half of me is is stating that in this situation we're talking about a situation where
00:47:32
Shane no longer exists. >> Yeah, I understand. We're talking about a situation where we're going to say,
00:47:37
"Did Ashley kill or participate in the murder of her own parents because she was being abused by her father is a very
00:47:45
powerful statement." And I don't think that speculation would would point me in that direction strong enough for me to
00:47:52
believe that. I would want hardcore evidence that he was in fact abusing specifically Ashley.
00:47:59
>> Okay. So, what's your long- winded point? My long-winded point here is that I don't know why the smart half of me
00:48:04
cannot fix the creek in this chair that I'm sitting on every time I move. So, I apologize everybody out there. If you're
00:48:11
hearing weird noises, it's it's from me. >> It's coming from his ass. [laughter]
00:48:16
>> That's That's where the creek noises >> from that area. I didn't have a long-winded point. I think you got me
00:48:21
upset because we're calling him a specific specific abuse. Uh but but regarding this theory, so what do you
00:48:30
think? >> This first theory. Yeah. Right. >> It doesn't add up. >> It doesn't. You're exactly right.
00:48:36
Because and I think that's why we bring up the $200 in Laura's purse. It seems strange to me that Laura would leave
00:48:44
behind her own money, right? >> Or or her own purse. >> Correct. Um even if you wanted to try to
00:48:50
make it look like you were abducted, I don't know that kids these are kids, right? I know they're 16 years old. I
00:48:56
know they're good students. I know that they are smart young ladies. The thing here is though, I don't know that that a
00:49:03
kid would come up with this wild theory that you know what, we can kill these two and we'll take off and maybe we'll
00:49:09
get lucky and they'll think we were abducted, so leave behind your purse, you know. And furthermore,
00:49:16
>> well, >> furthermore, none of the vehicles none of the family's vehicles or Laura's
00:49:20
vehicle was taken. So by that by that point alone you can cross off theory one in my opinion because now you have to
00:49:29
have outside help. There has to be some form of trans transportation getting you
00:49:35
out of the area. >> Well look the purse behind not that big of a deal. Leave the purse behind.
00:49:41
>> The cash is big. >> You need the cash, right? And you know but >> I don't know. Was there cash in the
00:49:47
freezer? I'm gonna say not. Look, we we've all I look, the other question I have, too, which might seem a lot pretty
00:49:54
silly to everybody, but but how long was she dating her boyfriend? >> Uh, I don't know.
00:50:00
>> And the only reason why I want to know is because sometimes in the initial stages, you kind of just, you know,
00:50:07
overexaggerate maybe a little bit. >> Mhm. >> You know, I I've had that happen before.
00:50:12
or been on a date where somebody's, you know, telling you what they do for a living, you know, and they kind of a
00:50:18
little braggadocious about it and and I think and and these are, you know, women
00:50:24
in their 30s, right? So, what's a girl in their her six, you know, she's 16 years old. Oh, I'm going to get a car.
00:50:31
Well, what kind of car you're going to get? Well, I'm going to get a nice one cuz Well, how do you got money for that?
00:50:35
Well, I got a couple thousand saved up. I got some cold hard cash in the freezer. Right. The thing here is
00:50:41
though, Captain. Okay, so I want to uh kind of present something that I was thinking about the other day. What if I
00:50:50
were to think that maybe Ashley killed her parents? Um, could could the tipping point or could the trigger moment could
00:50:59
that have been if she came home and discovered that all of her hardearned money that she had saved and saved and
00:51:05
saved for her very first car that her father had taken it from the freezer and went off and did something with the
00:51:12
money? Yeah. Not. Look, I look I see that again. Then you're going to drag you're
00:51:20
going to drag your friend into this. >> Mhm. >> And it's We're going on how many years
00:51:24
now? >> Well, it's been 16 years. Yeah. >> So 16 years you've been in hiding and
00:51:30
your friend hasn't came forward. No. And the other thing too is I think if it was
00:51:36
based on the abuse, right? >> Then here's what would happen or this is my speculation.
00:51:44
You're overcome with whatever an embarrassment or whatever you're feeling, rage that your father would be
00:51:53
abusive towards you sexually or physically and you've had enough and and I'm not going to take it anymore and you
00:52:00
snap and shoot your father. >> Mhm. >> How does that go on to shooting your mother?
00:52:05
>> Right. >> And then on top of that, then you have to light your house on fire. I mean,
00:52:10
other than you're covering up one one murder with another. >> Yeah. But I think for somebody that by
00:52:16
all accounts, you know, was a good kid, you know, had something to live for, was
00:52:22
progressing in her own life, didn't seem like she had many problems, you know, she's celebrating a happy time. You
00:52:28
know, 16 is a a a great time. You know, you're going to get your freedom, you're
00:52:34
going to get your independence, more independence. 16's a good time. So, it's a snap. And then on top of that, then
00:52:41
you have to have a friend going along with this and she's going to drop everything that's going on in her life
00:52:46
and she's 16 and has a bunch to live for so she can just help you out. Now, it's,
00:52:52
you know, it doesn't seem too likely, but then and then when you run away, you're going to forget the two $200,
00:52:59
>> right? And I think that's what does it all those things that you said plus the
00:53:03
the other fact that they didn't take a vehicle and they left the $200. you just you wouldn't do that. You wouldn't leave
00:53:10
behind a car. You wouldn't leave behind additional funds when you know you're planning on starting a whole new life
00:53:16
elsewhere because you got to run from these murders you committed. And just like the captain was stating, there is
00:53:22
nothing in the background of either of these two young ladies. These were smart young ladies, honor students. They were
00:53:31
good. They, you know, worked. Um, it sounded like it sounds to me like Laura Bible's family life was probably much
00:53:39
different than Ashley Freeman's family life. It does sound to me though that Ashley Freeman was very close with her
00:53:46
mother. Even if she hated her home life or hated her father, she only had two more years to go to be out of that
00:53:53
house. And I I just don't see anything in their background to point toward them having committed this and taken off.
00:54:01
>> Yeah. Because, you know, we don't know what kind of gun they were shot with. The thing that points towards them is
00:54:11
that half the dude's face was missing. >> And to me, that would be a shotgun blast. To me, a shotgun or a rifle would
00:54:18
be something if she was going to use something, I would assume that she'd use something that she's more familiar with.
00:54:25
>> And I'm again just also assuming that she'd be more familiar with a rifle based on hunting. Um, but but then you
00:54:33
have to have the cojones. You got to be one bad ombre to shoot your father in the face with a with a rifle.
00:54:41
>> And keep in mind his his collar bone was broken. This almost points towards some
00:54:46
kind of scuffle before he's shot where I would think, you know, if you're this situation, if you're going to shoot your
00:54:53
parents, you're going to walk into their bedroom in the middle of the night and shoot them in their sleep. You know,
00:54:57
that that's typically how these things go down. it wouldn't lead to some kind of altercation. So, I think you can
00:55:03
scratch off the first theory that the two girls did it themselves and took off on their own. And that kind of helps us
00:55:09
scratch off theory number two as well, because it's basically the same theory, but that they they had the assistance of
00:55:16
one or two men or one or two boys that may have assisted in the attacks and that they left town with this person or
00:55:23
persons. >> What's your gut feeling on the boyfriend? I mean, I look, you know, he
00:55:28
claims he left at 9:30. A lot of other people say, "Well, it's probably at 10:30."
00:55:33
>> I see. >> Um I I that that doesn't bother me either way. You know, if you're off a
00:55:38
little bit, we're not talking about a detail. There was people there afterwards,
00:55:42
>> right? >> So, to me, that little detail is not, you know, he's not being nefarious and
00:55:47
trying to, you know, cover his his ass, you know. But, uh what's your gut feeling on this guy? So Jeremy Hurst, my
00:55:55
gut feeling is I like him. Um I don't like him I don't like him I don't like him as a suspect. Well I he I don't even
00:56:02
know if he's attractive or not. >> But the thing here is Captain first of all I like you said doesn't bother me
00:56:08
that he's off approximately an hour on his time because the other dude that said he stayed later could be off on his
00:56:14
time. >> Right. >> Um what I think we have is a situation where he reports that he left their home
00:56:21
at at such and such time. He probably he's a child. He's under 18. He goes straight home to his parents house. His
00:56:29
time is probably accounted for. That's what I'm getting at. That his time between and it's a small window. It's
00:56:35
not like these people, this crime happened sometime in the week of this. No, this crime happened sometime
00:56:40
between, let's say, 10:30 p.m. and we believe the mom was killed at 5:00 a.m. the next morning. Right. So, it's a
00:56:48
small window. I believe his time was easily accounted for during the course of that time. And on top of the this is
00:56:54
gonna seem kind of strange, but I'm gonna say it anyway. >> Go for it. >> The birthday gift that he purchased for
00:57:01
his girlfriend, you know, don't we all love that young love, right? That's that's that's great. Those those high
00:57:07
school romances that you have his birthday. >> That's where you're going with this.
00:57:11
>> His birthday Well, we were all I was in high school once >> when you were in high school.
00:57:15
>> Yes. >> High school. Look, high school romances are okay when you're in high school. I
00:57:20
no longer participate in high school romance. >> Um, >> but to me, >> I'm going to need you around, Colonel.
00:57:27
>> And and I'm playing to the ladies now. Okay. >> Okay. Ladies, hey, how you doing?
00:57:31
>> Jeremy's birthday gift to his young girlfriend seems to me to be wellthought out, that he he didn't cut any corners
00:57:40
on this birthday gift. And what I mean by that, what did we say? It was a a silver chain with a heart-shaped
00:57:46
pendant. Yeah. >> That also contained her birthstone. Let me tell you, men as a whole, sorry men.
00:57:53
Now, I'm not playing against the men. >> Sorry men. >> Especially when men are 16, 17, 18 years
00:57:58
old. >> We do not know what birthstone >> you have depending on what month you're
00:58:05
he what I'm getting at is I think he he put in good effort, >> right? >> He put put together a thoughtful gift.
00:58:11
That tells me that I think he truly cared for that young girl. >> And that I think that because of such he
00:58:18
wouldn't do anything to harm her family or harm her. >> Yeah. But if he really cared about her
00:58:25
that much, maybe he would harm the family and help her cover it up. I don't know.
00:58:30
>> But then but then he stays in town. He doesn't leave with this this young girl
00:58:35
that he's >> Men have done some strange things for ladies before. But you point out a good
00:58:40
you a good reason why I think that theory number two can be scratched off as well because okay if they have the
00:58:46
had the assistance of a boy or boys or a couple of men or whatever >> where and who are these men and boys you
00:58:54
know wouldn't they be reported missing at some point as well or you're living in a town of 600 people
00:59:00
>> right right >> when two of them disappear >> if there's another two missing >> it's pretty obvious you know so I think
00:59:06
we can scratch off theories number one in number two. >> All right, Colonel. Way to scratch off
00:59:12
some theories. >> I'm not the Colonel. I hold no rank anywhere. >> It's the Captain the Colonel show.
00:59:18
>> I'm Nick. We're we're changing the name of the show to the Captain the Colonel.
00:59:23
True Crime Gay Ridge. Anyways, thanks for listening and uh we're going to have to get to these theories and there's
00:59:30
some suspects that are going to come up in this next episode. Plus, we need to get your chair fixed because I'm tired
00:59:37
of hearing your your butt squeak. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Thanks for sharing on social
00:59:42
media. And until next time, be good, be kind, and [music] don't live. [music] >> [music]