00:00:48
Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always is a man that faked his death, changed his name, and has been hiding in the garage ever since. He
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is the Captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be Oh, well, it's not good to be seen and it's
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and I guess it's not good to see you, either. Oh, great. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling
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a friend. Tonight we are drinking Las Vegas Lager with cucumber and lime from Big Dogs
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Microbrewing in Las Vegas, Nevada. Garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five. What happens in Vegas
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shouldn't have to stay in Vegas, not when it's this good. And we're staying refreshed tonight because of some of our
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good garage friends. First up, we have Corey in Clermont, Florida. And to KM, we like your Jeep. Next, let's go out
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west and thank Karen in Santa Monica, California. Staying in California, we have Cammy and Jessica in San Diego.
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Stay classy. That's pungent. And right around the corner from me in Hilliard, Ohio, we
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have Nicolina. Here's a cute message. It says greetings chaps from across the pond in the black country. Enjoy a round
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of beers on me. That's from Deborah. In Olympia, Washington, we have Colin. Big cheers to you, mate.
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We also have Brandon and Lindsey in Bellingham, Washington. And we have Priest in Singapore. And
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sending hugs from Bergen, Norway, we have Siren. And our last birthday shout-out ever, so
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we can stop sounding like Morning Zoo Radio, all right. Goes to Emily from Laurel in Minnesota. So, thank you to
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everybody in our big garage family. We thank you. We appreciate you. For everything True Crime Garage, go to
00:02:36
truecrimegarage.com. And if you'd like to follow us on social media, Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram,
00:02:43
Untappd, do so at True Crime Garage. And that's enough of the business. All right, everybody
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gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. September 7th, 1996,
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Las Vegas, Nevada. This was supposed to be a big day in sports. A lot of people,
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a lot of celebrities, they had made their way to Vegas to see the big boxing match. This is Bruce Seldon vs. Mike
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Tyson billed as the championship part two. Mhm. Bruce Seldon was the WBA heavyweight champion. He had a record of
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33 and three. And Iron Mike Tyson, just three fights removed from his time in prison, won all three fights. In his
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previous fight, he had just captured the WBC heavyweight title. Tyson's record, a
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very impressive 44 and one. Of course, the big fight was broadcast live on pay-per-view, and the fight was held at
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the MGM Grand in beautiful Las Vegas. And I can't remember if I actually watched this fight, but any child of the
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'90s you would know your your father would get the Tyson fights and they'd last about like a minute and then your father
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would be yelling cuz they they paid all this money to watch a a minute-long fight. Well, unfortunately, the big
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fight was really a much to do about nothing because Tyson mopped the floor with the guy. Right.
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Tyson knocked Sheldon down twice, both times connecting with a powerful left hook and Tyson won by way of knockout in
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the first round in just 1 minute 49 seconds making it one of the shortest championship fights in boxing history.
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In attendance that night, as we said, were plenty of celebrities. You know, Vegas is only about an hour and a
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half-long flight from Los Angeles. Yeah, four four-hour five-hour drive from LA as well. So, of course, we have Tupac
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Shakur was present and he was there with Death Row Records CEO Suge Knight and their entourage of friends, family, and
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business associates. Well, after the fight, this is sometime between 8:30 and 9:00 p.m., someone in Tupac Suge
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Knight's entourage, a guy by the name of Trayvon, he spots this dude, Orlando Anderson, nicknamed Baby Lane. Mhm. Uh
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we'll just call him Orlando, but Orlando is 21 years old and he's a member of the
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I believe it's the a member of the South Side Crips. Well, this is no good because they had
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beef. Mhm. Apparently, Orlando and some of his [ __ ] buddies had robbed someone
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in the Foot Locker store earlier that year. Uh it sounds like this person who was robbed was was with Tupac and Suge
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in Vegas that night. So, that guy, uh Trayvon, he points out to Orle- he points out Orlando to Suge and Pac.
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And this is not going to end too well for Orlando. No. No, this is going to end about as good for Orlando as it does
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for Selden in the boxing match. Tupac led the attack. He ran up and he hit Orlando. Uh Suge and the rest joined in.
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They took Orlando to the ground pretty quickly. Uh kicking him while he was down. Uh Tupac and the Death Row guys,
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uh they had their own security with them there that night. Well, and you can if you YouTube this, you can actually find
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the fight online. Uh not the actual Tyson fight, but the fight afterwards with Tupac. You can find that on
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YouTube. Mhm. Yeah, it was caught on surveillance camera that night. Well, one of the
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private security uh for the Death Row guys, he pretty quickly pulled Tupac from the fight. And if you if you watch
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the surveillance footage, this all happens very quickly. You can kind of see Pac run up and appear to hit the
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guy, and then you see this like just this crowd of I'm guessing entourage people that that follow in
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very quickly behind. And I'm just going to throw this out there because I've I've seen this
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multiple times as far as conspiracy theories go. A lot of people think that it's actually not Tupac in the video.
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That the size and the build of Tupac is disproportion to actually what Tupac was.
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Um I think as as far as like the police reports of this incident and the security reports that happened, it's
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pretty clear that Tupac was there. Also, there is some speculation that he was wearing a bulletproof vest at the time
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as Tupac was known to wear a bulletproof vest multiple times. There's also a rumor that uh Suge Knight
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that's Now, I can't find this myself. I've looked over and over, but there's somewhere in the video footage where
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Suge Knight is actually trying to get Tupac to take off his vest. I Now, again, that's just rumors that I've
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heard. I can't back that up um by by me actually watching the video myself. Mhm.
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Well, after after the scuffle takes place, um around 9:00 p.m., everyone in the group
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uh they in Tupac's group, they kind of head their separate ways. They all go to their hotel rooms. They're going to get
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cleaned up, you know, change clothes, and get ready to go out for the night. The plan being that they're going to a
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club. Well, right. And and I think the thing is, and I'm not very for sure about this because they say that Tupac
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was supposed to make an appearance. Now, I don't know if that was a if he was supposed to perform or just
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show up because sometimes these celebrities or these rappers would get paid to go to after-party. Yeah, and you
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and you're right about that. I had heard I had heard it both ways. Um but the the
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way that I've heard it the most is that he was to perform that evening. Okay. Yeah, and then some of that stuff, too,
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is it's just like a birthday party, like a celebrity kids birthday party or something. You want to talk about easy
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money. Sometimes they're paid six figures to show up and do one tune. Mhm. Well, and the thought could be, Captain,
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that that his appearance or his performance that night at the 662 Club might fund the entire trip for all those
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guys to go out there, you know? And it and it's good publicity for him to sell records as well. And and let's go back a
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little bit because Tupac is there with Suge Knight. But didn't travel with him. He's traveling
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with his cousin um and he's traveling with his girlfriend at the time, which was Quincy Jones' daughter. And I can't
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recall his cousin's name, but it's it's a female cousin. Yeah. Um so shared like a birthday month, and so
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he's like, "Hey, come to Vegas and and let's party." But before this all went down,
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uh there was a lot of speculation and rumors from Tupac's family that he for some reason just wasn't feeling up to
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going to Vegas that weekend. Mhm. Well, I think that points out something to me about Pac's character
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because we, you know, as we showed yesterday, he did not have a great family structure, let's say. Mhm. Um he
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didn't have an easy time growing up, but I've seen plenty of videos and plenty of
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evidence that as an adult, as, you know, once successful, that he always tried to, you know, do things with his family,
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keep his family together. And as you said, brought along the cousin on this trip. Well, this is when he goes back up
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to his room to get to touch on that a little bit, what you were saying before. In a lot of Tupac's
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interviews, he would talk and and I have a lot of respect for him for this cuz his whole thing was, "Yeah, I'm becoming
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famous and yeah, I'm getting a bunch of money, but I don't need a a ton of stuff. I'm going to I'm going to support
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my family. Mhm. And I'm going to no matter how much money that cost to to help them out. I'm going to help them
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out." Well, and as we mentioned, the cousin is along on this trip. And when when Tupac goes up to his room to get
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cleaned up for the evening, change of clothes, uh he, you know, and this is her words. She says, you know, he he was
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he was on like cloud nine when he came up to the room. He he was excited because he he he loved watching the
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boxing match. Right. Uh he was probably pretty jacked up from that. And then that might have been why
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he ran up and it wasn't so hard to get Tupac to run up and punch this guy. Right.
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Um and so he was kind of pumped up and bragging to her a little bit about uh the fight that he had had in the in the
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lobby, comparing himself to Mike Tyson. And um she says that when he Right, right. I You're not as big as Mike
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Tyson, but when he goes up there to change his clothes, you know, it was it was regular Tupac, Mr. Happy-Go-Lucky.
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And she didn't see anything that would put off any any warnings to her. Now, one thing that she did think was strange
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was he left the room without his bulletproof vest. Right. Now, um when once he gets
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downstairs, a bodyguard suggests to Pac that he should wear the vest that night,
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and Pac says, "Nah, it's going to be it's going to be too hot here tonight." Right. Um so, they're going to Club 662.
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Um I have in my notes that Pac was performing there, but as we said, it could have just been an appearance. Now,
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the group before they make it to the club, they go to Suge Knight's mansion. He has
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a mansion in the area, and they're there for about a half an hour or so. And during the course of this visit, Pac and
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Suge, they're off in what I'm going to call it a secret meeting, but no nobody in the group titles it as that. Right.
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They just said that for a for a portion of that time at Suge's Suge's house, the
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two of them were off somewhere. They didn't know why they weren't with the group or what they were discussing or
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what was going on. When they go to leave Suge's mansion, uh Pac's bodyguard, this is Frank
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Alexander, Well, and to be fair, I mean, this is his label, right? So, it could have just
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been, "Hey, something came up. We need to discuss this real quick in private." Yeah, it may not have been anything of
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great importance of things that were going to happen that evening. Right. Um the bodyguard, Frank Alexander, he says
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that he would typically ride with Tupac in the vehicle, and he was prepared. He said he was standing at the car with the
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back door open getting ready to ride in the back seat with Suge Knight and Tupac
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on their way to the club that evening. He says in this statement, uh in in this particular documentary that I was
00:13:19
watching, that Pac had suggested to him that he should take another car, that he should
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drive in another car because they will probably have extra people, additional people coming back from the club to the
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hotel afterwards and they may need additional vehicles. Right. Now, we've also heard statements that Pac told him
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to ride in the vehicle with his then fiance or girlfriend at the time. The prob- The problem I have with the
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the And Quincy Jones' daughter. Right. And the reason why I'm kind of pointing this
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out is because people have put a lot of speculation on why the bodyguard would not be with Pac. And I think you should,
00:14:02
first of all, and but second of all, the problem I have with it is that there's so many different statements. You know,
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is it possible that he rode with the girlfriend and additional guys in that in that car? Yes, it's possible. But in
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his statement, he never mentions Frank Alexander's statement. He never mentions the the girlfriend at the time.
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The problem though being I I believe that that we've seen varying accounts from Mr. Frank
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Alexander. And and I don't mean drastic varying accounts. I mean slightly varying accounts. So, I'm just kind of
00:14:38
covering our bases there. But So, he's not going to ride with Pac. Now, there's been other people that have
00:14:44
suggested that Suge Knight told Pac to suggest to the bodyguard to ride in another vehicle.
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Right. But we have the bodyguard's claims that it was Pac, so So, we have basically a three-car convoy and we have
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Suge Knight and Pac. They are in a '96 BMW 750iL, which I'm not a not a Suge backer,
00:15:09
but he's got good taste in cars. I got to tell you that. It's a rental, though, right?
00:15:13
Around Around is it? I I don't know. For Hey, look, from all the statements after Pac dies is that,
00:15:22
you know, everything was leased anyways. They didn't own anything. I think we should be I don't think it
00:15:28
was well, actually I should say I know it wasn't a rental. It could have been a lease. Regardless,
00:15:34
um around 11:00 p.m. they are stopped. This is uh Tupac's car. They're stopped on the Las Vegas Boulevard. This is by
00:15:43
Metro bicycle police. Come on, can you imagine being stopped by a cops on a bike? Well, there's a lot
00:15:51
of people walking around down there. No, I understand that, but I'm just saying you know, if you're walking and you get
00:15:56
stopped by a cop on a bike, not a big deal. But if you're driving and a cop on a bike stops you, I'd be going, "What
00:16:01
are you doing?" Well, apparently they're stopped for their stereo being too loud
00:16:06
and there's no license plates on their vehicle. Mhm. Um these license plates, for whatever reasons, were not on the
00:16:14
car. They're later found in the trunk of the car. Um there's no ticket issued. Um
00:16:20
they you know, they kind of leave without any Right. without any altercation at all. Um but not long
00:16:26
after that, this would take us to around about 11:10 11:15 p.m. Now, we have to we have to kind of picture this as we're
00:16:37
talking about it because you know, this is audio, we can't show you any diagrams
00:16:40
here. But picture the three-car convoy pulling up to the corner of Flamingo and Koval. Right. And it looks like it's
00:16:49
five lanes at the intersection. Yeah, so you have you have a vehicle in front which has got, you know, Death Row
00:16:55
guys in it. And then in the middle vehicle, you have Suge Knight who's driving and you have Tupac Shakur who's
00:17:02
sitting shotgun. And then there's yeah. And then there's a vehicle behind them as well, which
00:17:08
contains more of their entourage. So, as they pull up, as the captain said, this
00:17:14
is a multi-lane road. Um the vehicles are driving uh in this three-car convoy, but they're
00:17:20
they're straightforward. They're not side by side. It's 1 2 3 as they pull up. Now, they have a
00:17:28
There's There's a bit of, you know, there's a vehicle next to them that has some lovely ladies in it and Suge Knight
00:17:34
and Tupac exchanged some words with these ladies uh inviting them to the club uh for his performance. Well,
00:17:43
a white four-door late-model Cadillac with an unknown number of occupants pulled up to the sedan's right side. So,
00:17:53
we have the the girls in their vehicle are on the left side of Suge and Pac. Mhm. And so, this vehicle pulls up to
00:18:02
the right of them. So, if you can picture this, their car, Suge Knight's car, is
00:18:07
basically boxed in on all four sides. Mhm. And so, this vehicle pulls up to the right-hand side, uh rolled down a
00:18:15
window and rapidly fired gunshots. Um, I've I've heard that 14 shots were fired is the most common number given here.
00:18:25
Um, this is fired at Suge and Tupac's vehicle. Tupac was hit four times, twice in the
00:18:31
chest, once in the arm, and once in the thigh. One of the bullets went into Tupac's right lung.
00:18:39
Knight was hit Suge Knight was hit in the head uh by a fragmentation or piece of uh piece of a bullet or a piece of
00:18:48
glass. It's a little unclear. Um, and and I got to say that it's unclear. Part of that is because of Suge Knight's
00:18:55
own statements. If you you don't have to look very hard where you can see him in
00:19:00
an interview saying, "I was hit with a bullet in the head and and it I still got a bullet lodged in my head." That's
00:19:07
That's not accurate by anything that I could find. It It It actually is a blatant lie.
00:19:13
Right. But he he's hit with either a fragment of a bullet or some kind of glass that
00:19:18
that does some damage to his head and he's bleeding quite badly. And the white Cadillac is it's in the
00:19:25
right-hand turn lane and it's going to turn right onto Corval. Yeah, and the bodyguard Frank Alexander, he says that
00:19:32
one of the Death Row cars went after the white Cadillac. Mhm. Uh but he states that that nothing
00:19:39
came of this. Shug's car pulls away. Now, Shug is still driving. He's driving erratically at this time. Mhm. And the
00:19:46
car itself is badly damaged because I think Shug hit a few things with the vehicle. And the car eventually breaks
00:19:54
down. Now, this is not terribly far from the scene of the shooting. The first officer to arrive at the scene was a now
00:20:01
retired officer. His name is Chris Carroll. Shug is out of the vehicle at this point. Uh the officer Carroll, he's
00:20:09
trying to open the passenger door to get Pac out of the vehicle. Mhm. Uh but it's
00:20:15
stuck or it's jammed, but for whatever reason he can't seem to get the door open. Now, Shug keeps coming up behind
00:20:22
the officer and running up behind him and the officer's trying to gain control of this of this situation because he
00:20:31
doesn't really know what's going on here. You know, he can see that that Tupac is in bad shape. Uh he sees Shug
00:20:37
who is bleeding from the head and in his his exact words were, "He's bleeding pretty badly." Right. Uh the officer at
00:20:45
this point, you know, he doesn't know if these two guys might have shot each other. Um he's not really sure what's
00:20:51
going on. So, he's got to kind of protect himself, but try to offer some assistance to these guys at the same
00:20:57
time. Right. So, he keeps kind of pointing his gun at Shug and saying, "Dude, you got to you got All right. All
00:21:03
right. All right. You got to lay down. You got to back off Well, in fairness get this door open." Well, in fairness
00:21:08
to the cop, too, I mean, Shug is a Well, that's funny that you say that because he that's exactly what he states
00:21:14
in his in his interview. You know, he said, "My first thought is I see this giant man." He and he says, "He's huge.
00:21:21
This guy is huge. He's running around. I'm worried about him coming up behind me." He goes, "And the guy's bleeding
00:21:27
from the head, but he seems all there." Yeah. He seems he knows what's going on. He's
00:21:34
he's with it, but he keeps saying, you know, "I was shocked that this dude was even
00:21:39
walking around." I think I think the officer may have thought because of the amount of blood coming from Suge that he
00:21:44
was shot much worse than what he was. Right. Anyway, he's trying to gain control of the situation. He can't get
00:21:50
the vehicle door open. According to whoever you want to believe, the officer says he eventually gets the door open.
00:21:58
Suge Knight says that he has to keep coming up and trying to help the officer because the officer couldn't figure out
00:22:04
how to get the door open or take off the seat belt. Well, we'd assume that maybe
00:22:08
the door is jammed because of the shots. Or or from Suge hitting something with the vehicle.
00:22:13
True, right. So, there's there's plenty of reason for it to be jammed. According to the
00:22:17
officer, he finally gets the door open. And he at this point he is at this point isn't this when they
00:22:26
open up the door and Tupac's body just kind of falls out? Yeah, if he kind of falls out of the vehicle and he's kind
00:22:32
of like leaning up against the open door at this point. Yeah, I mean, he's been hit four times,
00:22:37
right? Mhm. He said, you know, so he the officer says, "I I grabbed him with my left arm.
00:22:43
He falls out into me and I've still got my gun in the other hand." Uh he's stating that Tupac is covered in
00:22:51
blood and he noticed the immediately noticed that the guy's got a ton of gold on and he's got, you know, necklace and
00:22:58
jewelry and all of rings that night. You can actually uh Google search Tupac the night of the
00:23:04
fight and you can see what he's wearing and you can see he had multiple rings on
00:23:08
each finger. The officer says that all of the gold, all of the jewelry is covered in blood. Uh and he says that
00:23:16
the other guy just keeps yelling, you know, and and Suge's still yelling. Now now
00:23:22
Suge is yelling Pac, Pac. And he just keeps yelling it over and over again. And this is when the officer realizes who
00:23:32
who he's encountered. You know, he wasn't aware that it was Tupac until now he's got him out of the vehicle. He sees
00:23:38
all the blood and now he's putting everything together. Now the officer is stating that Tupac is also trying to
00:23:44
yell back at Suge Knight. Yeah, and the officer says that at some point you very
00:23:49
quickly Tupac goes from yelling back at Suge to trying to speak or struggling to
00:23:56
speak. Uh he's not being super cooperative with the officer, but he's probably in a whole lot of shock as
00:24:02
well. Um to the point where he he basically could not he couldn't speak very much at
00:24:08
all. You know, almost kind of like you know, he's out of energy. He's he's been taken down. And Well, yeah, and The
00:24:16
off Well, the officer's trying to get some information from Pac because once he realizes how badly this guy's been
00:24:22
been shot and injured, you know, he wants to find out who shot him. Can you tell me any information at all? And he
00:24:31
he he asked him that several times. Who shot you? Who shot you? And he says at some point Tupac looked
00:24:37
at him and took a breath to get some words out and when Tupac opened up his mouth, the officer thought
00:24:44
that he was actually going to tell him who shot him or or offer some cooperation.
00:24:49
But then the words came out from Pac, "F you." And then after that, he started gargling and kind of slipping
00:24:57
out of consciousness. And at this point the ambulance is going to show up. They're going to take Tupac to the
00:25:02
hospital. Now this this officer that talked to Tupac or tried to help Tupac was saying that he never spoke another
00:25:09
word after the FU. And then there was also an officer that rode in the ambulance with Tupac. And he also
00:25:16
questioned him as well trying to get answers because obviously they know somebody shot him. Mhm.
00:25:22
Well, and then once they get to the hospital, we have the situation where he has to be rushed immediately into
00:25:29
surgery to try to save his life. So he's you know, he's in surgery. He's heavily
00:25:33
sedated. Um This is this is a strange thing here Captain. A very strange thing to me.
00:25:41
Mhm. It's possible that both stories are true. But yesterday we reported that when when Pac was shot in New York that
00:25:49
his somebody in his group had informed the police that that somebody was coming back to the hospital to finish the job.
00:25:56
Right. And we stated that that that was probably very likely because Tupac rushed out of the hospital. He left a
00:26:02
lot earlier than the doctors wanted him to. Mhm. Now the same story is basically
00:26:08
repeated verbatim here as well where somebody in the group called the police and stated that somebody's going to come
00:26:15
back to the hospital to finish the job. We need to get an officer here. Um and they're told that they're
00:26:21
understaffed. There's no officer available to guard the the hospital room or to guard Tupac. I don't know.
00:26:29
But well, the other problem I have with this though too is that you have bodyguards that you're that you're
00:26:35
paying Mhm. their salary. So you know, wouldn't these bodyguards be able to be at the at the hospital to
00:26:44
protect Tupac? Yeah, it's it's just the reason why I question it. Um I don't question it in the sense that
00:26:50
somebody's life was in danger and there's of course immediate threat in both situations. I kind of question it
00:26:56
because it's the exact same story two times in a row. I just don't know that it that one of those stories actually
00:27:03
happened. I believe it happened at least once. I just think that the waters are a little
00:27:08
murky and and some of the stories may have bled into one another. So that's a poor choice of words, but may have
00:27:15
carried over from one incident to the other. Well, and what I was saying before, um
00:27:22
to me this is just all pretty sad. You know, I can't understand maybe Tupac didn't know who shot him.
00:27:30
But I He might not have even seen anything. I mean, he was he was basically ambushed when you think about
00:27:37
it. He was he was shot It was a surprise attack. Well, right, but I'm and I'm very well
00:27:42
aware that me and you know, me and Tupac grew up in way different circumstances.
00:27:48
I'm just, you know, if somebody shot me and I knew wouldn't you want to say? Uh I I understand it's a whole different
00:27:58
uh situation, but that's what's so sad to me is is that maybe uh his fans or his family or
00:28:06
anybody could have got some answers uh if he was just willing to to talk, you know, and and say the name. But
00:28:14
again, like you said, maybe he didn't didn't say the name. Yeah, I Or or didn't know or didn't see anything.
00:28:20
I have a feeling that I I don't think he he saw who did this. Um or he didn't didn't know them enough to
00:28:27
be able to identify anybody. Um but once he's at the hospital, you know, we we we all know the sad story
00:28:35
from here. You know, he's he's placed on some different type of life support machines.
00:28:40
Um now Now, to show you how tough this dude was, you know, Tupac would you know, we talked about yesterday he he's
00:28:48
shot several times in New York and he leaves the hospital against doctor's orders um
00:28:55
and you know, me me I break a leg I'm down for 6 months. This guy Maybe 6 years.
00:29:00
Yeah, this guy he's just he's right back at it. He's a real man. So this situation here they at some point they
00:29:07
have to sedate him because he's trying to get out of bed. This guy is is you know
00:29:14
just breaths away from lifelessness and yet he's got the strength somehow to to get out of bed. Right. Um
00:29:22
unfortunately on the afternoon of September 13th Well, yeah, well, but the what's reported and this is where it
00:29:28
kind of the conspiracy stuff kind of falls into play. It's some some of it's reported that he goes into a coma and
00:29:36
then he has to have more surgeries because uh where the bullets hit and then that possibly they
00:29:42
had to remove a lung. Mhm. Uh and then several days later like you said he he is reported dead. Yeah, he passes away
00:29:50
um and it sounds like they were the doctors were trying to revive him uh but after quite some time his his mother uh
00:29:59
made the decision and told the doctors to stop uh trying. He's pronounced dead at 4:00 03 p.m.
00:30:07
on September 13th. All right, we're back. Cheers, mates. Cheers. Well, let's talk about the
00:30:32
investigation a little bit and this won't take us too long before we get to some of the other more widely talked
00:30:38
about things in this in this case. But in September of 1997, 1 year after Tupac was killed, the Las Vegas police uh made
00:30:47
a statement. This is Sergeant Kevin Manning. He told the Review-Journal, that's the local Las Vegas newspaper,
00:30:54
that Tupac's slaying they didn't believe it to be motivated by a gang war or arguments within the rap world. Um it
00:31:03
said he says that it appears to them that the motivation would be some type of personal dispute more than anything.
00:31:10
And two of the detectives that were on this case, I thought they made an interesting statement. They were saying,
00:31:15
you know, yeah, you know, Tupac had a lot of opinions on police officers, but that had no weight
00:31:22
or bearing on their commitment to solve this case. That that when they signed up
00:31:28
to be detectives, when they decide when they decided to be police officers, they
00:31:32
took an oath and and everybody that they were working for deserved to have closure, to deserved to
00:31:40
have their case solved. Mhm. They also said that they had a lot of theories, you know, a lot of theories
00:31:45
as to what went down that night, who was responsible, but stating that they have
00:31:50
no witnesses willing to cooperate or any direct evidence implicating any specific
00:31:55
individual. Now, police at the time said that Tupac's associates knew who killed
00:32:01
him. Um but that would be definitely Suge Knight, which was in the car with him. Mhm. But,
00:32:06
they unable to make a case, they state. Now, we also have some FBI documents that have come out over the years. In
00:32:16
2011, a highly redacted 359-page document was released on the agency's website. This is a common site to post
00:32:25
records that are of the subject of several Freedom of Information Act request. Mhm. Now, within those documents, you'll
00:32:34
see that the that the FBI's information is slightly different uh uh regarding this investigation as far as what we
00:32:43
just heard from the Vegas police. But, I also want to throw out there that within
00:32:47
these FBI documents, they are actually talking about their investigation into both the death of Tupac and Biggie.
00:32:57
So, within these documents, it says that the FBI did spend a lot of time examining a link between uh the two
00:33:05
killings. They also spent a lot of time examining the link between some LAPD officers who might have been members of
00:33:13
street gangs or who worked security for Death Row and the ties between the record label and the Blood gang members.
00:33:20
And one of the things that the FBI would talk about with the connection with the
00:33:24
Blood gang is that they actually thought possibly both shootings were connected to the Southside Crips or the Southside
00:33:31
Compton Crips. Yeah, that they that the Crips may have masterminded both of the uh the killings.
00:33:37
Um here's another strange thing in this whole case though. There was another shooting. Uh this took place in
00:33:44
November, just 2 months after Tupac's death. Um this the victim here is 19-year-old, and I I have to apologize,
00:33:52
but I have no idea how to say this young man's name. I think it's Yafie Fuller. Fuller, I believe. And he actually had
00:34:00
uh two names. Um the other name that he went by was Yaki Kadafi. Um but I apologize if we misspoke on those, but I
00:34:07
think we got pretty close there, Captain. We're trying our best. Yeah, regardless, this young man, he was
00:34:12
he was a backup singer in uh Tupac's group, The Outlawz. Um he was shot in a in a hallway of a housing project in
00:34:21
Orange, New Jersey. This was 2 months after Tupac's death. Just 19 years old. Uh he was part of Pac's entourage in Las
00:34:29
Vegas and was a passenger in a car directly behind Tupac's car when when the artist was killed. Now, um police
00:34:38
say that Fulla's murder was unrelated to Tupac's case even though Fulla was the only witness who told Metro
00:34:47
investigators that night that he could possibly identify Pac's assailant. Mhm. Fulla was killed before police could
00:34:55
question him further at length. And like we were talking about a little bit during the break,
00:35:01
our detailed account of the night or the shooting or where the cars were and all
00:35:05
that stuff, we probably didn't do um home run job of. But, we're going to get back to a lot of that stuff when we go
00:35:13
through the theories. Yes, and there's varying accounts of those, but as you'll see as we go through these different
00:35:18
things, it's going to come we're going to have to come back to it a couple of times.
00:35:23
Um so, let's talk about some of the widely discussed theories about Tupac's death and who killed him. Well, and
00:35:29
here's just a little um warning. If you're just the facts man, if you're just the facts man,
00:35:36
then you probably don't want to listen after this. You're just the first part of the show, man. Right. So, all right.
00:35:41
So, the the first theory is that the Illuminati had something to do with the death of Tupac. Um you know, in 1996
00:35:49
Well, yeah, they Death Row Records releases I'm just going to interrupt you cuz I don't think you'll be able to say
00:35:54
it. Don Illuminati. There you go. Very good. When I see that word, I I am my brain immediately separates it into two
00:36:00
words. Conspiracy is here today, my friend. Yeah, the the 7-Day Theory, uh which
00:36:06
reportedly features lyrics predicting Tupac's death. Uh it is alleged that Tupac developed a dislike for the
00:36:13
Illuminati, uh the the power the organi- organization supposedly yields while in
00:36:20
prison in 1995. Mhm. Um so, you know, this has been brought up time and time again that this that these very
00:36:29
important shadowy figures with lots of power took this guy out because he was outspoken and he was going to speak out
00:36:38
against such people. Well, and one of the things that kind of the theory behind the Illuminati
00:36:43
as far as it goes with the the rap world or the music world is the idea that will, you know, we need to dumb down
00:36:51
America. We need to dumb down the world. And if we can dumb them down, then we can kind of do whatever we want and
00:36:56
they're not not going to be focused on that. So, you need rappers to be talking about [ __ ] and hoes, right?
00:37:04
You need uh some dumb music out there. You don't need to have people saying socially relevant stuff. And Well, you
00:37:12
don't want to get the people thinking too much, right? Or asking too many questions. Right. And so, a lot of the
00:37:18
stuff that Tupac and one of the things that drew me and, you know, it wasn't like I was this kid listening to the
00:37:25
Tupac. It was afterwards. And the the studying of him and the then I was really interested when
00:37:32
uh some of my college professor friends were saying or they're teaching classes on him now.
00:37:37
Mhm. Okay, well, why? And you start diving into his interviews and what he is saying about, you know, you you know,
00:37:43
you need to empower yourself. You know, you need to get education. And it doesn't have to be through a four years
00:37:48
in college, but you need to educate yourself. And he was he was saying things like
00:37:53
this. So, the kind of this theory is yeah, Tupac had some of these, you know, you know, {quote} {unquote} gangster rap
00:38:01
type songs, but he was also saying stuff of empowerment. Mhm. And and so, the idea would be that
00:38:09
they would want to get rid of him because he was trying to uplift. And if you really dive into what he was talking
00:38:14
about with the thug life stuff, which I never knew much about that. I just thought it was just kind of some silly
00:38:20
thing he'd to "Thug life." But it's really this mantra and these ways and he's actually writing up laws and and
00:38:28
things that people could follow. And if you follow this thug life, it wasn't really
00:38:33
to be a thug at all. It was to uplift yourself, educate yourself, get yourself out of this situation. Mhm.
00:38:40
And one could argue this is kind of, you know, possibly from Tupac's upbringing.
00:38:46
I mean, his mother was a Black Panther and a lot of the stuff that the Black Panther Party stood for actually was,
00:38:52
you know, that there was some socially relevant stuff there as well. So, I think some of that education came down
00:38:59
from his mother. Well, and I think a lot of these thoughts, too, that that Tupac
00:39:03
was putting out and that some of the thoughts that the Black Panther Party has put out over the years is that, you
00:39:08
know, united we are much better than we are as individuals. And who would that scare? Well, that would scare the people
00:39:15
in power, the people that might trying to be, quote unquote, control us. You know, it's almost it's very reminiscent
00:39:22
of when we discussed uh Joseph Colombo, the the the guy that was uniting Italian
00:39:27
Americans. Right. And the thought that he was probably that he could have been killed by people
00:39:32
or organizations of power because he was uniting people and he was he was getting
00:39:38
people to believe in themselves, believe in their community, and believe in their
00:39:41
brothers and sisters around them to to stand up for themselves and stand up for their communities and and to have a
00:39:47
voice. Well, and the other thing that that Tupac talks about a lot is, you know, gangster rap was talking about
00:39:54
the real the real struggles that were happening on the streets and the deaths that were
00:39:59
happening on the streets. And therefore, since they were bringing it to light, there was some statistics that were done
00:40:04
and he always talked about how the the powers that be want to shut that down. And the government for a lot of times,
00:40:10
like Tipper Gore, was like uh spearheaded, you know, let's just let's not allow this music to come out.
00:40:18
And one of the Tupac's ideas was you don't want us to talk about this so so the problem goes away. But the problem
00:40:25
is not going to go away. You know, people are just not going to report on it anymore. There's still going to be
00:40:30
people killing each other, but you're not going to care because it's never reported to you. Mhm.
00:40:37
Well, and we should mention the FBI thing here because I I don't necessarily know that it fits 100% but it but it's
00:40:44
in itself I don't know that it's a separate theory. So let's just cover that now while we're on this topic
00:40:48
because you know, the thought is that potentially the government or the FBI killed somebody like Tupac because of
00:40:55
reasons we just stated, but the evidence to that would be that there is there's some proof out there that he
00:41:03
might have been being watched by certain agencies. Yeah, he definitely was. And he might have even being been
00:41:09
watched while he was in Las Vegas. Yeah, okay. So he was a Okay, here's a couple things. So one, he
00:41:16
was a outspoken black male. So with power, too. I mean, the bigger his albums got the more power he actually
00:41:24
had. And I think they knew that just as much as the CIA had you know, has files on you know, Maynard
00:41:32
Keenan, right? Mhm. Uh James Maynard Keenan from Tool. They have files on John Lennon.
00:41:39
I think and I think it's naive to think that they shouldn't have those. Right. So, you know, we were kind of joking off
00:41:48
off air that there's a good possibility that the CIA has files on us. I mean, they're the
00:41:53
most boring files they have, but they might have files on us. They have compromising photos of me.
00:42:01
From a what t-shirt contest? Um but yeah, so did they have files on him? Yes. And if you if you look at
00:42:09
these documentaries of Tupac, sometimes you'll see these surveillance footage and it'll say FBI surveillance footage.
00:42:16
Here's where it's not so clear. Is is was that surveillance footage from the club that the FBI attained? Mhm. Or
00:42:27
was it the actual FBI doing the surveillance? Right. And that's not clear. So we have
00:42:33
the Illuminati theory. We have the possibility of FBI or CIA involvement. Um the way that I look at this thing
00:42:40
Captain is I wanted to kind of you know for if anybody's panicking, I wanted to kind of start with the theories that
00:42:45
were a little more outside of the box and kind of work our way closer to the box if we could. So we'll eventually get
00:42:52
to our opinions on these theories. Yeah, so so the next theory of of who killed Tupac would be that nobody killed Tupac.
00:43:00
That that he is uh that he's alive and well and possibly living in Cuba. You know, we we talked
00:43:07
about his his aunt being there. Um there's an article that was published um that that says that he's been in hiding
00:43:14
the whole time. There's probably several of those articles. Um but we've also seen all kinds of pictures of him
00:43:21
supposedly that he could be living anywhere uh possibly Tupac look-alikes or supposedly Tupac himself. Yeah,
00:43:29
there's a lot of talk too that he kind of knew this was going to happen. He fell in love with Machiavelli. Mhm. And
00:43:36
Machiavelli was uh was a guy that faked his own death. Mhm. Um I I believe that Machiavelli actually
00:43:43
faked his own death and then came back. Uh I'm not really I I'm not schooled on that very well. Um I I thought he was
00:43:50
somebody that talked of some kind of a strategy about faking one's own death. Right. No, I actually believe he
00:43:57
actually did. So So the fact that he talks a lot about this and and actually actually talked about being rebirth.
00:44:04
Uh Tupac talked about being rebirth and actually being Machiavelli now. Um I think because of a lot of that talk
00:44:13
Look, when you're shot five times and you kind of see the writing on the wall. Was he a
00:44:20
fortune teller? I don't think so. I think he knew that the people he was surrounding
00:44:25
himself with and the the entertainment uh industry that he was in he knew that if he wasn't making changes
00:44:35
he'd probably end up dead. Well, and he's not he's not an idiot. I mean, the Tupac's a very intelligent man and he he
00:44:43
knows that he he might be in a bad situation. You know, if this happened once it could happen again and I barely
00:44:50
escaped the first time. You know, it's very likely. Well, and then there's all these weird talks about the autopsy
00:44:56
because you have the autopsy photo. The the problem with that I I are those real photos or not? So, a
00:45:04
lot of people will say, "Well, this is photoshopped or it's a fake photo." Maybe it is a fake photo. Mhm. And so,
00:45:11
then that destroys the whole argument about the autopsy photos. Um Now, I But but then he got cremated.
00:45:19
So, he got cremated really quickly. Yeah, so the reports are that it that he was cremated the next day. Now, that's
00:45:26
they're kind of loosey-goosey reports because some people will say as late as 24 hours after he passed away or as
00:45:33
early as 10 to 12 hours after he passed away. Yeah, that's pretty suspicious, but then
00:45:38
we also have the death certificate. Yeah, so I was trying to find an autopsy because there's been arguments that
00:45:44
there was one conducted, that there is no autopsy. I got nowhere with that. The best I could do was I locate a death
00:45:51
certificate. Well, and let's let me be clear about the autopsy. There might not be one and I'm not
00:45:58
I'm not a doctor, you know. I'm a captain. But the the thing is here is that we know
00:46:04
that he had a punctured lung or something was wrong with his lung because of the gunshot.
00:46:11
And they had to pull I I believe they had to remove um the lung. Yeah. So, I think maybe there wasn't an autopsy
00:46:19
because they were already doing all these surgeries. So, they already know. Mhm. So, it's not like a you know, we
00:46:25
showed up to this house and Tupac was murdered. It was he was in the hospital for multiple days. Yeah. But, on the
00:46:32
death certificate itself, um the two things that stand out there are that the height and weight listed on the death
00:46:40
Let's be clear, the one that I saw Right. they're not accurate. They the death certificate that I saw has him
00:46:48
listed as 6-ft tall, 215 lb. Well, that's Tupac was nowhere near 6-ft tall. He was nowhere near 215 lb.
00:46:58
5'9. And he's about 160 to 170 lb. Yeah, and I would say if he's 170 lb, that's soaking wet with 10 rolls of quarters in
00:47:08
his pocket because he was a very lean uh a very lean guy. Yeah, and I think if you look at the like I said, Google
00:47:16
image search Tupac Shakur the the night of the fight, he actually looks thinner than normal.
00:47:23
Mhm. Yeah, and the thing with the death certificate is is two things. Okay, so first of all,
00:47:29
I reviewed the whole thing. There's nothing else on that document that I called into question. It was only the
00:47:36
height and weight that appeared to be wrong to me. They even had his his birth name on there. They had, you know, that
00:47:41
his mother had signed off on it. The problem is I'm seeing it on a computer in the garage. It's not an official
00:47:50
document by the state of Nevada that was handed to me. It It It's It's something
00:47:55
that somebody could have very easily doctored and put on the internet. Yeah, okay. So, I'm just going to give my
00:48:02
opinion on this if he's actually dead. Now, a couple things. A lot of conspiracy theorists will say that when
00:48:09
his mother gives interviews, maybe she smirks or something like this. She gave plenty of interviews claiming that he
00:48:16
died. I mean, and explaining to you, "Oh, by the way, I'm the one that had to let it go. You know, and I had to say,
00:48:26
"Hey, let's let's stop this. He doesn't want to be a prison He doesn't want to be a prisoner here anyways. He's He's
00:48:32
not happy with what's going on anyways, and he's now struggling, you know, let him let his soul move on." Mhm. And
00:48:41
so, I'm just going to go with the fact that that's what she has stated over and over and over. And why wouldn't I want
00:48:48
to believe a mother? I understand that the idea of the conspiracy theorist of him faking his own death would be,
00:48:55
"Well, yeah, his mom would cover up for him." Mhm. And I yeah, I think that uh unfortunately, it would be great if he
00:49:02
was still alive, and but but I think it's a very unlikely theory. Um the other the next one would be the Jewish
00:49:11
let me just Okay, so so we can put a bow on this, right? There are maybe two Cuz look, a lot of anybody that's into
00:49:20
conspiracy will be like, "You You guys missed this, or you missed that." Well, yeah, I understand that there's
00:49:26
some videos that were made in Cuba of a rapper and possibly Tupac's in the background for point
00:49:34
0.002 seconds. Uh I don't know what to make of that, you know? I kind of looks like him.
00:49:43
Uh all I can say on that theory is there's there's two things that have have me um
00:49:50
that are hard for me to wrap my head around. One, the amount of eyewitness accounts in Haiti
00:49:57
that have come forward to uh um authorities saying that they saw Tupac. It's like crazy amount, like 10,000
00:50:05
reports. Mhm. The other one is there's like two photos out there. If you Google search
00:50:11
Tupac's alive, you can search through and and take a gander yourself, but there's two
00:50:17
um in my eyes that I have a hard time explaining. So, that's all I'm going to put out
00:50:24
there. But do I believe he's dead? I do believe he's he's dead. The third theory would be the Jewish
00:50:29
Defense League. Uh the FBI reportedly discovered threats to Tupac as well as rapper Eazy-E from the far-right
00:50:37
pro-Israel political religious group the Jewish Defense League, the JDL. Uh it is
00:50:43
alleged the JDL made anonymous death threats against Tupac and then offered him protection services for in trade for
00:50:51
large sums of money. When this money wasn't paid, it is alleged that the JDL murdered Tupac. Um but the the the FBI
00:51:00
has has discovered these threats and has stated this, but they also state that there is no link between the JDL and the
00:51:09
killing of Tupac that has ever been discovered by them. Well, if there's a conspiracy on a death that you want to
00:51:16
look into, uh something that's pretty fascinating, Eazy-E, that'd be one. Mhm. As far as a
00:51:22
conspiracy, that's one that I've looked into. I can't explain it myself. The next theory would be Suge Knight.
00:51:29
Mhm. That Suge Knight had had Tupac killed, that it was some kind of hit, some kind of conspiracy against a guy in
00:51:36
his own organization. Um this is a theory that I really dove a lot into because going into it I I
00:51:44
thought that this was a pretty likely theory. You know, when I was when I was younger,
00:51:50
I I really did think that probably either, you know, somebody from the East Coast group had
00:51:58
Pac killed or that or that Suge Knight did it. So, this is one that I dove into quite a bit. The the the theory goes
00:52:05
like this, that uh supposedly, um Suge Knight owed Tupac about $3 million. And possibly a lot more. Yeah, and he
00:52:15
also might have known that Tupac was looking to leave Death Row Records in order to start his own label. So, the
00:52:23
theory runs that if Tupac was killed, Death Row Records would profit from any unreleased material, which we know he
00:52:30
had a ton of it because the albums kept coming out. Um Death Row Records have released a number of his albums since
00:52:37
his death. Well, right. And then his mother comes out and does a report stating, "Hey, when when we're talking
00:52:43
about that BMW earlier, I said it was probably leased. The reason why I was stating that is if you look at the
00:52:51
the report that the mom came out with, she said, "Look, my my son died broke." Right. And when my son would get angry,
00:52:59
um at Death Row Records and started saying, "Where's my damn money?" they'd drop off
00:53:04
a Bentley. Mhm. And so, Tupac would be like, "Okay, well, I got a Bentley." Oh, he Tupac's mad again, drop off another
00:53:10
car. Oh, Tupac's mad again, drop something off. Tupac thought he owned those cars.
00:53:16
Right. He would tell everybody that he owns those cars. After his death, it they figured out
00:53:22
that all those cars that Death Row Records were saying that they're giving him, they were just leased vehicles.
00:53:28
And that Death Row Records owed him a bunch of money. But 3 days before he died,
00:53:34
his lawyer sent stuff to Death Row Records' lawyer stating, basically, like, "This is done." Mhm. Um and that's
00:53:42
why when we were talked about the little meeting that Shogun Tupac had, it could
00:53:46
have been Tupac and and Suge Knight talking about this. Like hey, this is how it's going to go down. Now,
00:53:54
I don't think Suge is a dumb guy. Uh, I don't think he's a bright guy, either. But, he's smart enough to know how to
00:54:01
threaten people. He did it with Dr. Dre when he wanted to leave, and I think if Tupac wanted to leave,
00:54:07
maybe he would let him leave, but he's going to get a percentage of that afterwards.
00:54:11
Mhm. Well, the thing here with Knight, um, you know, for those of you not familiar,
00:54:18
this is a guy that's no He's no stranger to being in trouble with the law, and he's no stranger to
00:54:25
probably acts of violence himself. Right. Um, in 2015, Knight was involved in a hit-and-run incident that left one
00:54:33
man dead and another hospitalized. Uh, now, he did turn himself in to the sheriff's department for that uh the
00:54:40
following morning, um, and at that time was arrested on suspicion of murder. You're right, but if you're going to
00:54:46
have a hit on a guy, don't do it when he's in the car with you. Don't do it while you're driving.
00:54:52
It doesn't That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Well, the the incident that I was talking about with the uh the
00:54:58
hit-and-run incident, it looks like he is still facing those his court date uh due to some health complications or
00:55:07
health problems he's been having, the the court date keeps getting pushed back. Well, he pa- he passed out when they set
00:55:13
bail. Mhm. Uh, he passed out in the courtroom. Yeah. And at times he's claimed to have been suffering from
00:55:20
blindness um and some other ailments as well, but it sounds like that case that the judge
00:55:26
has said, "We're taking this thing to court in January of 2018, and there's health concerns, no health concerns,
00:55:33
that's going to be the start of the trial for those charges." Now, another thing here that gets brought up, and
00:55:39
you're exactly right, Captain. It He there's no way that in my opinion that he would put himself in the vehicle
00:55:47
that's going to get sprayed with bullets. I mean, the vehicle 14 shots is what's most commonly reported. The other
00:55:55
thing is that the a lot of reports state that you know what? That incident with Orlando Anderson in the lobby was an
00:56:03
incident that Suge Knight created in advance because it would give him some kind of out. It would give police some
00:56:10
kind of suspicion that Orlando Anderson and maybe his people were involved, and this would pull the guilt, or not the
00:56:17
guilt, but this would pull a lot of the suspicion off of Suge Knight. The problem with that theory is well, Suge
00:56:24
Knight joined in the fight. The dude was on probation, and this was a violation of his probation. He ended up having to
00:56:31
go back and spend some time in prison because of the the the situation that was caught on the surveillance camera
00:56:38
that night. Right. So, okay. Right. So, then the other things that are against him is
00:56:42
that Tupac was probably leaving. So, if he's leaving, then again, he'd still probably get some
00:56:48
percentage. He's still going to make money off of his old albums. If Tupac became bigger Look, Tupac was probably
00:56:55
one of the biggest icons in the world at the time. If he became even bigger than
00:57:00
that, Death Row Records still going to make a bunch of money off of him from his from his past records. So, and maybe
00:57:06
unreleased stuff and things like that. So, uh you know, and also Suge Knight doesn't ever come forward and says who
00:57:15
he thinks did it. He always It's like he changes his story all the time. Oh, well, yeah, Tupac's alive. No, Tupac's
00:57:22
dead. Tupac's alive. Oh, no, I saw him in Cuba. It's almost like he's just messing with people.
00:57:27
Um The the the thing he said on record, and it when I say on record, I mean in a
00:57:32
videotaped interview that aired a lot of different places. But one thing he said
00:57:37
on record that really kind of upset me was that you know, the thought is that the FBI stating that or the the police
00:57:45
stating that they believe that some of Tupac's associates know who killed him. Right. And so the question was, if you
00:57:53
knew, Suge, if you knew who killed Pac, would you report that? Would you turn the people in, please? Mhm. And his
00:58:00
answer is, no, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say a thing because it's not my job to do that. It's I don't get paid to solve
00:58:07
crimes. Um Right, but the right, you run a record label and that was your artist. It's your job
00:58:13
to protect the artist. But you weren't really a a businessman or a record label, you're just a thug.
00:58:20
That's what he was. Right. Right. And so and this was your friend. This was your
00:58:25
This was your friend. And if he wasn't, he should have been your friend. Right. And and the thing is, you
00:58:31
It is his job. It's his job on some level and you can argue it 100 different ways and you'd be right. Right. And I
00:58:37
like I said, I understand that I come from a different uh background and upbringing, but this whole idea that
00:58:44
this uh snitches get stitches whole thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And
00:58:49
and and what also uh a couple things. One, I think that goes with the idea that that Tupac is
00:58:56
actually dead and what goes with the the thing that uh uh Suge Knight was not involved was the amount of gang riots
00:59:05
and murders after Tupac's death. The next couple weeks, they had a big issue with this.
00:59:12
The next suspect on the list is Orlando Anderson himself. You know, following the boxing match between
00:59:18
next theory. The next theory, thank you. Following the boxing match, he was the guy that
00:59:22
was attacked uh when the fight broke out in the in the lobby. Mhm. Um you know, in some stating
00:59:28
that this was a fight between rival gangs, the Bloods and the Crips. Um stating that you know, Orlando Anderson
00:59:34
wanted some form of revenge. You know, that that he got into a scuffle and he got his butt whooped and you know,
00:59:41
stating, "Well, what are you going to do now? Well, you're going to go you're going to go get your friends."
00:59:45
Well, he got jumped by a bunch of people. going to go get your friends and you're
00:59:48
going to go out and you're going to correct this situation. Right. Um I'm not going to lie, I like this theory
00:59:56
um because uh fortunately, a lot of times when these things go down in the way that
01:00:01
they did, usually it's a a result of some form of retaliation. Somebody felt that they were done wrong. Somebody felt
01:00:08
that they were embarrassed or beat up or robbed or whatever and they go back out
01:00:12
and they take some kind of vigilante justice. Well, there's some weight to this because there was an I I at least
01:00:19
believe one eyewitness that stated that the shooter was Orlando the night of the
01:00:25
shooting. Mhm. Well, and the there was some lawsuits involved as well, right? So, we have
01:00:32
Anderson who sues Death Row Records because he's attacked in Las Vegas. And and what happens in response to that
01:00:40
lawsuit? Well, there's a wrongful death lawsuit against Anderson for the death of Tupac Shakur, correct?
01:00:46
Yeah. Yeah, the mother Afeni Shakur filed one against Anderson 4 days later. Now, what what came of that supposedly
01:00:56
is that Death Row Records actually settled and that he Orlando would have netted 78,000.
01:01:04
He also reported to some magazine Orlando did in 1997 saying, "Well, I was a fan of Tupac. I was a fan of his
01:01:11
music." But again, the night of the shooting, you have eyewitness calling I believe 911 or the
01:01:19
police department saying, "Hey, I know who shot him. It was this guy." Uh now, who did that call come from?
01:01:26
Could it have just been somebody that was in the scuffle and just had a thought that, "Well, it must have been
01:01:32
this guy." Yeah, and but the thing here is we have half the equation when it comes to Orlando, right? We have him in
01:01:38
the area and we have a motive. Um that's that's more than we have for some of the
01:01:43
other people or theories on our list. Now, uh Orlando was eventually killed in an unrelated gang shooting in 1998.
01:01:51
Uh he and associate were involved in a shootout with uh some gang members. Several people died in that situation.
01:01:58
His associate was later charged uh for his involvement in the shootout. Yeah, and there's also some other
01:02:05
I can't I can't find it right now and I don't think you found it in your research, but something to do with
01:02:11
Orlando was already being charged or was already a suspect in another shooting earlier that year. Yeah, he he was
01:02:20
definitely questioned in the shootout regarding Tupac. Uh he was questioned several times, uh but whatever took
01:02:28
place during that questioning period didn't lead to any arrest. Well, and then now we go to uh Puff Daddy. No, and
01:02:36
look, I'm just making a joke. The you know, Puffy had a couple good tunes, right? He had a Yeah, but I here I All
01:02:44
about the Benjamins, baby. go on the record and I'm not doing this to back you up? I just want to throw my
01:02:48
own opinion. Mhm. Him him talk the uh-huh uh-huh yeah. That that is annoying on the songs. He had a couple
01:02:55
of his own songs that were decent. He He's like the captain of Bad Boy. He keeps interrupting. Yeah. Uh he should
01:03:01
he should have stuck to doing his own stuff and when he was producing just just produce, man. Just produce. Yeah.
01:03:07
Uh the thing is uh he's a bad dancer, but he's one hell of a dresser. I'll give him that.
01:03:11
Uh-huh. Yeah. So, anyway, of course we have the the rap war, right, theory? Uh Sean Combs, Biggie,
01:03:19
um um how how do you want to go about this? Because people you could easily lump these two together
01:03:25
or you could separate them. you say lump these two together, you're talking about the Orlando theory and the
01:03:32
Sean Puffy Combs theory. Well well, kind well, I was going to get to that. But what I meant was when you talk about
01:03:40
Biggie or talk about Sean Combs, do you want to lump them together as one suspect or talk about them separately?
01:03:48
Uh just lump them together, I guess. Okay, because I don't think look I I think a lot of these, you know, it
01:03:56
takes a special type of person to want to create content to want to rap, to want to create music, to for you know,
01:04:03
to write a book or whatever, right? Mhm. And I think some of these guys, not saying that, you know, you know, Puffy
01:04:09
didn't want to create cuz he he produced some stuff. But people like Suge Knight
01:04:13
they weren't creating, they were just, you know, one of the things in interviews that bring up all the time
01:04:18
with Tupac is "Well, you're getting pimped." That's what they say to him. "You're being pimped by the record
01:04:24
industry, you know, or these record label guys." So, I don't think I mean, yeah, you might grow up and
01:04:32
there's might be some violent tendencies in how you grow up, but I think both these individuals, even though they had,
01:04:39
you know, Biggie and Tupac, even though they had some of violent things, I think
01:04:43
a lot of that was more because of the people around them. And Well, and I think with Biggie a lot of
01:04:48
it was a bit of show. Um Yeah. And you know, I think that he was a hardcore rapper. I don't know that he
01:04:56
was a hardcore dude. Um I didn't I never really got that sense from him. Um but the thing here is, Captain, you know,
01:05:03
when we get into this when when when it first comes out, it's it's brought up that that Notorious B.I.G. basically put
01:05:12
out a hit on Tupac. Right. Um the the thing that we're going to get to here, when you dive down into it, it's
01:05:21
actually it's more mentioned that it came from Sean Combs and that that Biggie actually
01:05:27
had nothing to do with this incident. Now, what we're talking about here is former LAPD cop Greg Kading. Uh he says
01:05:36
he was involved in a special task force investigating uh these different cases. Yeah, he started with the Biggie murder
01:05:42
though. Which led him to to the Tupac investigation on his own. And he claimed in a 2016 documentary that Sean Combs
01:05:52
had paid gang members uh [ __ ] gang members Dwayne Keith Davis uh 100 I'm sorry, $1 million to carry
01:06:01
out the murder. Yeah, well, and it's kind of weird because it's blurry. The the the rumor was that uh he it
01:06:10
wasn't that he just gave him a hundred or gave him $1 million. It was just if this happens, I will pay you.
01:06:18
Right. Right. That was my going to be my question to you because when I dove into
01:06:22
this thing, it was confusing to me. Was this an outright hit or was it a bounty?
01:06:28
Because there's they're two completely different things. A hit, you pay someone here's here's your this is our
01:06:33
agreement, go kill the person. A bounty is more like Jabba the Hutt that's like,
01:06:38
you know what? If somebody brings me this guy, there's a reward. So, it sounds to me more like a bounty.
01:06:46
Uh the this guy uh his his name that he goes by is uh Keefe D. Uh so, we'll call him Keefe D.
01:06:54
But he lived he lived or was from the Los Angeles area. on. He goes by Keefe D. So, we're going
01:07:00
to call him Keefe D. Well, it's easier than saying Dwayne Keith Davis every time. So, this guy, he lives around for
01:07:08
my understanding lived around the Los Angeles area. Yeah. Well, if if he if you were going to put a bounty out on
01:07:15
somebody and he's from the the [ __ ] he's a [ __ ] member and you wanted Tupac dead, well, Tupac
01:07:22
would have been in that area. This seems like a likely thing here. But the way that this story goes is a
01:07:28
little different. It's not taking place in Los Angeles. It's taking place in Las
01:07:33
Vegas. Right. Why? Because Keefe happens stance though. Keefe D happens to be in Las
01:07:38
Vegas. He claims that he and a bunch of friends, a bunch of associates were going to be in Vegas for the fight that
01:07:45
weekend. Right. The situation is this. Who is Keefe D? Well, he is the uncle of Orlando
01:07:53
Anderson. Mhm. Well, Orlando Anderson is attacked by Tupac that evening. Right. And so after
01:08:01
that attack goes down Orlando, Keefe D and all these these guys are sitting around talking about this, you know,
01:08:07
well, how are we going to correct this situation because we just we just look like we got punked. Now we going to
01:08:13
we're going to correct this situation here. Oh, wait a second. Isn't there that Isn't there that bounty out there?
01:08:19
Isn't there this situation out there that somebody can make a whole lot of money? Right.
01:08:23
And we might be going after this guy anyway for our own reasons tonight. So, why don't we just
01:08:28
a bunch of sense. Yeah, why don't we just do both at once? Mhm. So, the way that I understand the situation now
01:08:34
these are Keefe D's words. This is his You can listen to his there's a actual audio confession. Yeah. And he's
01:08:44
confessing that him along with what? It's it's seven guys. It's eight guys total in the beginning. Right. So, that
01:08:51
they have their crew of people. Now that one of the interesting things was people
01:08:55
said, well, Orlando Anderson had no ticket to the fight. So, why was he at the fight? A lot of people call him a
01:09:02
pawn, you know, like well we'll set him up for the conspiracy theory. Well, the reason why he's at the fight is cuz some
01:09:08
of his crew was at the fight. They had tickets. Wait, he didn't have a ticket so hey, you guys go to the fight. I'm
01:09:14
just going to stay out here in the lobby. When he gets caught in the lobby with Death Row Records, that's when the fight
01:09:20
breaks out. So then while they're there and hit Keffe D's buddy or whatever says, "Hey, you can
01:09:28
take care of that hit now." Like kill two birds with one stone, right? Right. Hey, well we don't have any guns.
01:09:34
The guy goes, "Here's my gun." Gives them the gun. They pull up on Pac. Well, maybe keep going. Well, yeah. The
01:09:41
guy's name that he goes by, the guy that supplied the gun, he goes by the name Zip. Right. So Zip gives him the gun.
01:09:48
Uh what were they renting that weekend? Hit One of the guys, his mother had rented the late-model white Cadillac. So
01:09:57
they had access to a vehicle matching the description. They have access to a firearm.
01:10:03
So what they do is they pull up they're in the right-hand lane. Uh actually So what happens is what Keffe D says.
01:10:12
He says that they go to the 662 Club. Mhm. And they decide, "Okay, well we're going to drink a little liquor. We're
01:10:17
going to smoke a little weed. We're going to go to the 662 Club and that's where Tupac's supposed to be." It sounds
01:10:23
to me like they were trying to ambush Tupac and Suge Knight in the parking lot of the 662 Club. Right.
01:10:30
So they pull up and they have two vehicles. There's four guys in each vehicle. They sit there for about 20
01:10:35
minutes or so and during the course of this time when Tupac and Suge Knight are not showing up, some of the guys start
01:10:42
to get cold feet and they start to worry about what, you know, the situation just
01:10:46
got real. You know, you can sit behind closed doors and say you're going to take down these people, but once you're
01:10:51
in the car and you get to the location you're at the parking lot. Oh man, I would have ran out of there
01:10:56
faster than Straight pooped yourself, you know. But I'll tell you what Oh, excuse me.
01:11:01
So some of the guys start to get cold feet. Keefe D is in one vehicle. He's not in the Cadillac at this point. And
01:11:06
he tells the other guys, "You know what? Go off, do whatever you want. I'm going
01:11:10
to hop in this other car." He hops in the Cadillac. So now in the Cadillac, we have the driver, he goes by the name T
01:11:16
Brown. Uh we have Keefe D riding shotgun. Behind the driver, we have DeAndre. Uh he goes by He goes by Dre.
01:11:25
And then behind Keefe D in the in the back passenger right-hand side Is Orlando. is Orlando.
01:11:32
And so they decide that they're going to go I guess they're going to go look for Pac
01:11:38
and look for Suge. Well, I think the idea was more like, "Well, let's go get some more booze.
01:11:42
Maybe we get some more weed possibly." And then work our way back to the car. we'll work our way back. And so as
01:11:48
they're going up and down the strip, they're like, "Well, maybe we'll run into him there."
01:11:52
Well, as they pull up to this intersection, there's these girls screaming, "Pac! Pac!" right? Now,
01:11:59
there's four girls in a grease green Sebring, and they're um they're interviewed often.
01:12:06
So they're the ones that drew the attention to to the Keefe D of Pac. Right. So now they're like,
01:12:12
"Well, there he is." So Keefe D turns around and hands the gun to Dre because Dre would be in the
01:12:19
back passenger side, and Keefe D is like, "Well, I'm not going to shoot him." Yeah, because Keefe D was was the
01:12:25
one claiming he would shoot at the vehicle, that he would shoot Suge and he would shoot Tupac. But their original,
01:12:32
you know, when they see the vehicle, their first thought is, "Well, get up on the left-hand side, so Keefe D in the
01:12:38
passenger seat can reach out the window and and spray the car." But they couldn't because if you look at the
01:12:44
positioning of the cars in the intersection, they couldn't get to the left side of their car, so they're
01:12:49
forced to pull up on the right-hand side. Now, Keefe D sitting in the front seat, he does not want to reach over the
01:12:55
driver And shoot. and blast in front of the face of his driver. So, as the captain says, he
01:13:01
tries to hand the gun to Dre, who's sitting directly behind the driver. Right. Dre says, "You know what? I don't
01:13:08
want anything to do with this. Get that thing away from me." It's then that we have Orlando, who was attacked earlier
01:13:14
that evening, he decides to take the gun. He grabs the gun from Keefe D. He reaches over Dre and he puts his hand
01:13:22
just outside of the window and he shoots the car as many times as he can. Right.
01:13:28
And then they drive off. This is what Keefe D says. So, then they drive off, they turn right on the
01:13:33
intersection. And then all of a sudden they realize that a car is following them. Now, what
01:13:38
Keefe D says is, "Well, we thought it was the girl and the the girls chasing after us." Mhm. But he claims that there
01:13:44
was some gunshots. So, then they shoot fire back. And as we know, uh based off of the um statements that um From Frank
01:13:53
Alexander, the bodyguard. The bodyguard and the other outlaws, they claim that they chased after this white Cadillac.
01:14:00
Mhm. So, again, he Now, this is not heavily reported that there was other shots after the the first shootings with
01:14:08
Tupac. So, the fact that Keefe Keefe D actually states this, to me, has more validity with his story.
01:14:16
Right. Right. And And And it also explains why the uh the members from Death Row decide to stop pursuing the
01:14:24
vehicle. Yeah. And then what Keefe D claims is that See, now he grew up with Suge Knight.
01:14:32
And what he claims is that when Orlando was shooting at the car, that Suge Knight made eye contact with Keefe D and
01:14:41
he knew um that Keefe D and his crew were responsible for the death of Tupac. Yeah, and he also states that he thought
01:14:50
that Suge Knight would die that night because he thought he was hit in the head with a bullet. Right. So, then
01:14:55
after they get away from the other vehicle, the bodyguards, then what happens? Well, the the guys they park their white
01:15:04
Cadillac. And they actually park it it's strange because they park it somewhere that's very close to where Suge Knight's
01:15:11
car ends up at the at the end of the night. Uh they park their vehicle and they put
01:15:17
the gun, the way I understand it, they put the gun on top of the tire uh to kind of hide it for the evening.
01:15:23
They go off and party for the night and then the following day they go back to the vehicle. They check the vehicle,
01:15:30
make sure that there's no loose shell casings inside the vehicle. Well, they're very lucky that the cops didn't
01:15:36
find that vehicle because all they would have to do I think uh even with it being on the wheel well,
01:15:44
I I don't think they would need a search warrant for that. Well, they of course they wouldn't need a a search warrant
01:15:48
for that. I think part of that is why they left the gun outside of the vehicle because if there was nothing inside
01:15:55
proving that that gun was inside the vehicle, then they could claim that somebody else
01:16:01
just put that gun there. The problem is then they would have to explain why they
01:16:06
have rented a vehicle that matches the description of the car that was supposedly shot at Tupac
01:16:13
uh and why that that rental car could be traced back to one of those those men in
01:16:18
the vehicle. All right. So, let's try to put a bow on this theory, right? Mhm. Now, this theory I think holds a lot of
01:16:26
weight to me. And a lot of people would say, "Well, this guy is, you know, Keffe D was just
01:16:31
a criminal anyways and he gave this confession I believe when he was in jail." But, where is the proof? Well, here's
01:16:38
here's a couple things. Out of the four people in the car that we we have proof that three of them were in Vegas. Now,
01:16:44
one of them claims they weren't in Vegas, but I think two of those guys then claimed that guy was actually in Vegas
01:16:50
with them. Yeah, my understanding is it it's the driver of the vehicle says that
01:16:55
he was not in Vegas that weekend. And as you just mentioned, the only other two guys that are still alive that were in
01:17:02
that vehicle that night say he was the driver of the Cadillac. Well, right. And we also have the
01:17:08
surveillance footage. I don't know if it's FBI surveillance footage or not, but to me, you can see a white Cadillac
01:17:15
on the footage. Of the parking lot at 662. Yeah, whether or not you can see Keefe D. I swear at some point I saw
01:17:23
footage that I could see him on it, but I I I can't I can't find it to to show you. And I think that there's
01:17:31
probably no question that that we favor this theory better than the others that we presented. That's part of the reason
01:17:39
why we saved it for last. That's part of the reason why you hear us jumping out of our chairs to talk about it.
01:17:44
Right. The thing here for me is because it all kind of lines up. Uh there there there are some questions that I have and
01:17:50
I'll get to those in a minute, but the thing here is Okay, we have people that put themselves
01:17:55
in the area. Mhm. Uh they have the means. They say that they had access to a gun. They were driving a vehicle that
01:18:02
matches the description given by everybody. There's no question about the description of the vehicle. Mhm. And we
01:18:08
also have a motive. We have an obvious motive. And it not only do we have an obvious motive, but to me, I see all
01:18:15
kinds of motives when you claim that these guys are the ones that carried out the murder. And it looks to me as though
01:18:22
they their intention was to shoot Suge and Tupac. Was to kill both of them is what it appears to me. Because as he
01:18:31
states that they would have preferred to have pulled up on the left side of the vehicle and fired into the vehicle in
01:18:38
that manner. Now, we could have seen a different result with that. We could have seen a Suge Knight get killed and a
01:18:44
Tupac survive the attack had it gone down that way. But again, it their motives uh
01:18:51
retaliation. Well, also too and also Tupac's mom then files a wrongful death against this guy
01:18:57
as well. We have the retaliation thought for the motivation. We also have just the gang aspect
01:19:03
uh for the motivation. And then the the icing on the cake for their motivation would be that they could stand to make a
01:19:10
whole lot of money if in fact that this bounty that was supposedly put out by Sean Combs, if it was in fact a real
01:19:17
thing. Mhm. The problem the only problem I see with the confession itself is the
01:19:24
involvement of Sean Combs. I I it that to me I don't I don't I don't I don't make the
01:19:32
connection. Uh I understand that it's probably you know, it was a general suspicion by people at the time. Um I
01:19:40
think it makes for a better story for Keffe D. It also could have just been a rumor
01:19:44
that Keffe D heard. Mhm. It might not actually been something that came from Tupac's or not
01:19:50
Tupac's from Puffy's mouth, right? Right. Right. And I think if there were a large amount of money and I know Puffy
01:19:56
is somebody that has the ability to deal in large amounts of money. But if seeing
01:20:01
a movement of that amount of money exchange hands The FBI or CIA would have would have set
01:20:07
off some big red flags here. So, where where I stand, in my opinion, is that this
01:20:14
this theory makes the most sense. Well, and and on top of that, LAPD, when they were doing the investigation, a lot of
01:20:21
detectives that have done work on this investigation all think that the murders came from somebody from the Southside
01:20:29
Crips. Mhm. And these guys were members. And and just to be clear, you didn't misspeak there because you're saying
01:20:35
LAPD and this took place in Las Vegas. The thing here is we're seeing information coming out of former LAPD
01:20:42
detectives and officers that are saying, "We started investigating the Biggie portion of this of this story." Right.
01:20:50
And because this is what happened in our area, we started to see we started to look to see if there were ties between
01:20:56
the two murders and it led us to our own personal investigations into Tupac's murder and this is the theories and and
01:21:04
the things that we're seeing come to light now. Well, and on top of that, after the murders, like I said, there
01:21:09
was gang violence and shootings for weeks and weeks afterwards as a retaliation.
01:21:16
Now, why would there be a retaliation if your gang was not involved? Right. It doesn't make any sense.
01:21:22
Well, and the thing here is I want to go on record stating this very clearly. I think that this was a a gang uh a gang
01:21:30
related murder. The thing here is I want to be very clear. I'm not stating that it was Tupac that was in some kind of
01:21:37
rivalry gang. I I believe this was carried out by a gang, probably with people with gang ties. These guys, this
01:21:45
confession from Keefe D, that all falls into that theory. Right. And and what we
01:21:50
talked a lot about when we were researching this case. Um I'm just fascinated by Tupac in general
01:21:58
and I feel like he has I feel like the weight that he was carrying in his words doesn't get enough
01:22:04
respect from people that are outside of the hip-hop community. So, if you if you are a hip-hop fan or
01:22:11
if you're a rap fan, then yes, this then Tupac was this icon. We ain't telling you something you don't
01:22:17
already know. Right. But, if you're not in this world and you that that's not something you're
01:22:21
interested in, then you're like, "Why the heck are they covering this guy?" Look, I'm a huge Beatles fan. As much as
01:22:28
John Lennon was a icon to this world, so was Tupac Shakur. And I think when you look into the FBI or the CIA or the
01:22:36
Illuminati or he's still alive, all these odd theories, it's because at the end of the day, somebody that was so
01:22:44
magical of an individual, you know, Influential. And you well, don't say influencer because
01:22:52
now if you have a a bunch of people following you on Instagram, they call you an influencer. I want to say this
01:22:57
and maybe I'll get some heat from it and I don't give I don't give a [ __ ] okay?
01:23:03
This guy was possibly some form of a prophet, right? I think that same thought about John Lennon. I think that
01:23:11
same thought about Muhammad Ali. I think that same thought about Malcolm X. I think that same thought about Martin
01:23:17
Luther King. This guy was saying things that were relevant and he didn't have to. He was a multi-millionaire and he
01:23:24
wasn't getting paid what he should have, right? His label's holding this money. He was not getting paid what he should
01:23:32
have, but he he had all this money, he had all this power, he didn't have to say this stuff.
01:23:38
He could have just kept to himself, you know, stayed in his own lane, eyes on the prize, been greedy,
01:23:46
be selfish. I think because of his upbringing, his intelligence, the way he saw the world, he would even say
01:23:54
in interviews, "My brain sees things different than most." And I believe and if you look at
01:24:01
uh uh somebody that I think is a musical genius, Quincy Jones, Quincy Jones' daughter was
01:24:08
was dating him and he said, "When you met Tupac, this guy was on a different level as if he was touched by the hands
01:24:16
of God or something." That's his state that's what he is saying. So, I think all these other theories
01:24:22
that he's still alive or maybe the CIA killed him or the government, I think because at the end of the day,
01:24:28
this guy was so special and so magical that you don't want to believe some you know, and let's say what Orlando
01:24:36
was, he was a thug, but he was also a young naive thug. And for whatever reason,
01:24:43
uh you don't want to believe that this guy could take out somebody so powerful and so magical.
01:24:51
I won't use the word prophet. I think all those guys were great men. I think the loss here is that in my opinion,
01:24:58
Tupac had the potential to grow into becoming a great man. Right. I think that he was incredibly
01:25:05
talented, incredibly smart. I think I see a very impulsive young man uh making some poor decisions. Yeah. Obviously,
01:25:14
yeah. What what I'm getting at though is I think that if he could have stayed out
01:25:19
of trouble, which would have been very likely if he could have removed himself from some of those bad elements that had
01:25:24
worked their way into his life, Mhm. that I think he could have grown into being He was already something special,
01:25:31
but he could have grown into being something very positive uh for himself and for everybody for all
01:25:38
of us because I would have loved to have seen a Tupac in his 30s. I would have loved to see a Tupac in his 40s.
01:25:45
Right. Especially I mean, not even just as a rapper, but as a as a actor, he was
01:25:50
an amazing actor. Yes, he was. And the thing here is I'm I just think that we didn't get to experience all the things
01:25:57
that I know he was capable of. Yeah, and when I say prophet, I don't mean like hands of God. What I mean is somebody I
01:26:05
I believe that there's people that are put on this earth, right? We're all put on this earth somehow, right?
01:26:12
But that some of these individuals have something inside them and they can't stop it. And I don't think he could stop
01:26:20
himself from trying to help others or trying to present the truth or ways to others. That's what I mean by all that.
01:26:30
Well, we might get some more insight into these stories because I I noticed A&E is doing a big
01:26:36
Notorious B.I.G. and Tupac type documentary. We also have Tupac's movie coming out sometime this month.
01:26:44
I'm not excited about it. I'm not excited about the movie. I'm excited about the A&E
01:26:49
documentaries that are coming out. And what was the What was the title of the thing that we we found the the
01:26:55
confession from? In case anybody wants to go look it up for themselves. anybody is interested in looking more
01:27:02
into these and also the Biggie side, which I I'd like to dive more into the Biggie side as well. Um big fan of his.
01:27:11
Uh it's called Murder Rap and you can check out that book anywhere, really. Yeah, Amazon, maybe. Yeah, it's
01:27:18
definitely on Amazon. I was just checking it out myself. And if you want to go and check out our recommended
01:27:23
reading, go to truecrimegarage.com. We'll have that up there for you and you can purchase anything any of those
01:27:29
recommended books through our Amazon app if you like. Thanks everybody for joining us in the garage. Make sure you
01:27:34
check out the website truecrimegarage.com. Make sure you follow us on social media. If you're not
01:27:38
already, you're very late to the game. We will see everybody back here next week in the garage. Until then, please
01:27:44
be good, please be kind and don't litter.