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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you're
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always it's been years since he's danced the Calypso and
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of course I'm talking about the captain well that's because this Captain has a wooden leg with real foot it's good to
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be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music]
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today we are drinking light speed by Brew dog why because we are hoping and praying that this week's unsolved case
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gets some justice how fast light speed fast light speed is a delicious hazy IPA and it's only 99 calories and who brewed
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and can this beer you heard me correctly the first time brewdog so you know it's
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super quality garage grade 3 out of five bottle caps and here are some of our friends that are super quality first up
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we have wit and Yorktown Heights New York and a big shout to Pam and Saint Anne Missouri next we have Jamie and
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kitty Tallulah in London England and last but certainly not least we have Mary and Malta everyone we just
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mentioned they helped us out with this week's beer funding for that well we thank you yeah yeah yeah yeah BW double
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r u n Miron if you need your ear balls smacked around a little bit check out our bonus
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wherever you listen to podcasts but we're also on the Sirius XM app for all you Sirius XM listeners and Colonel
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that's enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab
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a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] four young sisters who all died on a
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fire at their family home [Applause] foreign still unclear how the fire started investigators were looking at the first
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floor electrical system the girl's mother injured along with two police officers who tried to save the
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sister's lives [Music] such an early age such a heavy loss [Music] she was a single mom working very hard
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and like I said her babies were her angels I can't imagine what she's going through
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I [Music] foreign [Music] ly on November 23 2016 the Carroll County Comet ran the
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following Report with the headline Four Sisters perish and floor of Fire the article read in part
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an early morning fire Monday November 21st 2016 in Florida claimed the lives of Four Sisters ages 11 9 7 and 5 and
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sent their mother and two police officers to the hospital the victim's names have not been
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released 9-1-1 was called at 3 35 a.m to a two-unit apartment building located at
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103 East Columbia Street when emergency Personnel arrived Flames were visible according to Florida Town
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Marshal Paul Redmond the victim's families resided on the main level which also includes an
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upstairs bedroom where the girls slept officers and volunteer firefighters removed the girls who were not breathing
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from the residents Redmond said they worked hard to resuscitate them but could not
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the victim's mother was airlifted to an Indianapolis hospital for treatment a County Deputy was flown to a Fort Wayne
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hospital for treatment of smoke inhalation and burns to his hands and face a floor police officer was
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transported to a Lafayette hospital for treatment of smoke inhalation the couple occupying the upstairs
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apartment escaped unharmed fire units from Delphi Camden Burlington and Cutler also responded according to
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Redmond the fire was knocked down quickly also helping at the scene where the Carroll County Sheriff's Department
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Indiana State Police and other police units the Indiana Department of Homeland Security and State Fire Marshal along
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with local authorities are conducting an investigation as to the cause of the fire
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Redmond said the victims were students at Carroll Elementary School Carol's counselors as well as others from nearby
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School corporations and local Ministry were available at the school to help students and staff cope with the tragedy
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the comment will run dozens of articles about the fire and fatalities for the weeks and months to come we have covered
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several house fires and arson stories on True Crime garage and unfortunately there were fatalities in those fires as
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well but stop and really think about it for a while there are a few things more terrifying than a house fire
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imagine waking in the night the house still dark the smell of smoke is strong you jump out of your bed with one
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thought my children you rush from the room only to be confronted with a wall of black smoke so
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thick your eyes water your throat burns and your lungs seize up the heat searing
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your skin to the point where you are sure that you are on fire screaming is impossible as you are
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overtaken by coughing and you stagger out the front door choking and gasping for air
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and your children are still inside this is what happened in the middle of the night on November 21st 2016 in
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Florida Indiana later we learn that this deadly house fire was no accident this is true crime garage and this is
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the floor Fire case foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] in November of 2016 little girls keone
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Kiara Kiana and Carol lived with their mother Galen Rose in a rented apartment inside a duplex in the Tiny Town of
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Flora Indiana the house was situated on a corner right next to downtown Florida this is a town of just one square mile
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occupied by 2 000 residents the small town of Flora is located in Carroll County Indiana the house Galen and her
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girls lived in located at 103 East Columbia Street was divided into two separate Apartments the family of five
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our family that we're discussing lived in one half and other tenants a mom and her two kids occupied the other half of
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this duplex Galen and her kids slept on two different floors of the home the girl slept in bedrooms upstairs and
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Galen occupied a room on the main level the force sisters were normal little girls who loved to play outside and were
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big time into cheerleading and that is an understatement I cannot emphasize that enough big time into cheerleading
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they were on various competitive cheering teams and they ranged in age from 5 to 11. so preschool age up to the
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sixth grade neighbors would later tell the media that the kids were always playing outside they were very nice and
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polite children they said the mom was friendly and would say hello the girls love to play with other neighborhood
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kids dogs and we're always smiling and dancing one Florida resident said they were so joyous they were very happy
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girls I've never seen them not smiling always on the front porch waving at everybody that went by they didn't know
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a stranger well let's get to the details of this tragic event okay Captain so on
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the weekend of November 18th through the 20th 2016 the girls had a cheer competition on that Saturday afternoon
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on Sunday Kiana who was big into basketball she had a game so the five members of this family went to the
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grocery store and went home to eat dinner after this basketball game and after dinner it would be bedtime for the
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girls on Sunday night this is the 20th the girls all went to bed around 10 p.m upstairs in their room Galen slept alone
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downstairs so she says that she went to bed around the same time as well but around 3 30 a.m Galen wakes up here's
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what happened per Fox 59 News it says everyone was asleep the girls were upstairs and Galen was in her bedroom on
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the main floor until she said intense smoke woke her up the whole entire house was full of smoke I couldn't really see
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gay Alan said I pretty much tried to save my babies by running up the steps I got halfway I couldn't breathe and I
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just ran out of the house to try to help now Galen stood in the front yard in her
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nightgown screaming but other screams could be heard as well coming from inside the house a neighbor one of many
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awakened by the sounds of the distraught mother called 9-1-1 the first to respond
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was Carroll County Sheriff's deputy Drew Yoder he rushed into the house when Galen screamed at him that her children
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were still inside he was quickly forced to retreat from the burning structure second to respond was Flora police
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officer Josh dissinger the two officers attempted to enter the home several more
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times but they had to pull back each time on another attempt dislinger had to pull Yoder out of the home because the
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smoke was so dense the Flames so hot later Yoder said to the Journal and Courier the third time is when things
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went bad all I remember is waking up in the ambulance with this singer standing over me telling me that everything was
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going to be okay firefighters were able to be on the scene very quickly by the time they arrive we have smoke and
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Flames that are billowing from the house Galen Rose stood on the front lawn screaming hysterically the two law
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enforcement officers were down by this point injured by their repeated attempts into the home right so shortly after 3
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30 a.m We have an EMT who lived next door to the family her name is Angela Francis she was awakened by the
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screaming she ran out to help and was immediately you know thrown into the situation where she's helping and
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assisting anyone that she can including the ambulances that are now arriving on the scene we also have neighbor Chasity
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Fox her and her husband also went outside of their home that night and watched horrified as as sadly the First
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Responders failed to save the children per Fox 59 Galen Rose recalled the ambulance man
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told me that my babies was no longer here and after that moment I don't remember anything
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Galen was sedated and airlifted from the scene to a hospital in Indianapolis her
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condition was listed as critical but stable she was in the hospital for nearly a week the floor of firefighters
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were eventually able to put out this fire one by one EMTs brought out four little bodies on stretchers Deputy Yoder
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suffered Burns to his hands and face and smoke inhalation he was airlifted to a burn unit in Fort
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Wayne where he stayed for several days he wrote a handwritten note to officer disinger that read quote you saved my
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life Josh he later says he has no recollection of writing this note dissinger was treated
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at the Lafayette hospital he too had smoke inhalation but he was released Monday night the two men had done
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everything in their power to try to save all four girls Unfortunately they just failed that the smoke was too bad the
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fire was too big I just think I have little fires at my house you know outside you know little bonfires
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you're moving around those firewoods and boom you get hit with some smoke and you
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start coughing and choking immediately and that's of a little fire and you're surrounded by fresh air can you imagine
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how you'd react or how the body would react when you're hit with smoke and when you're gasping for air all your
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body is getting is more smoke the residents of the other half of the home remember we have a woman with her two
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children that live there she was able to escape that night without any injury at all luckily her
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children were not home with her that night Carroll County coroner JD Cree announced that all four girls had died
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of asphyxiation due to smoke inhalation manner of death was listed as accidental
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this was obviously devastating to the family but also all the firefighters that were involved in trying to save
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these girls lives and devastated the whole community so they held the funeral at the local high school this is one of
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those horrible situations that we hear about Captain where the First Responders are now traumatized for months and even
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years to come the funeral itself must be unbearable we're talking about four children here the Carroll Elementary
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School provided grief counselors for the students who all knew the girls so students created banners and cards and
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posted them all along the walls of the school and a candlelight vigil was held on Tuesday evening of that week
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afterward people delivered meals to Galen Rose and her family and fundraisers and sales from a cookbook
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raised money for her to help try in some way to rebuild her life Deputy Yoder who
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we have already talked about who was on the scene and tried several times to get
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back in the house he was obviously devastated by the incident as was everyone he when he learned that the
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girls had not been saved he was crushed he says you know I know these girls I drove through Flora all the time for
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work and I would see them he says quote those girls were always outside on a nice day dancing around and
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the greatest thing is they would all stop smile and wave as you pass by he had often spoken with Galen who was a
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cashier at a gas station in town so he knew her as well this is one of those situations it's a small town not a lot
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of people and he shows up and he's responding trying to save people that he knows people that he has seen in his
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everyday life well First Responders get to know gas station attendance a lot because they stop in and get coffee at
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all hours of the night and in a small town if you're a cashier anywhere you really get to know a lot of people in
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the community these four girls were absolutely beautiful girls absolutely beautiful and
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Captain you know 20 years ago I worked at a gas station and I've always recommended here if you work at a gas
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station offer free coffee to all the officers to First Responders get those people in your stores and take care of
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them on that Monday captain this was like 3 30 in the morning on that Monday so now we have all this tragedy that
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happens in the middle of the night and we have fire investigators who are going to have to begin the process of
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sifting through the debris rubble and Ash to try to determine the point of origin because we have four fatalities
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here we have an investigation that has to happen exactly so we have assistant chief of the Burlington Fire Department
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Derek Jackson has said it's just a fire that happened at night people were sleeping and didn't wake up in time
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right but it was not really that simple as we know the Indiana State Police they
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were the official lead investigative Agency on the case the actual on the scene fire investigation would require
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experts the fire would be investigated by the Indiana State Fire Marshal's office which is part of the Indiana
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Department of Homeland Security and this would be well a rather extensive and ongoing
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investigation and the first few days fire investigator Dennis Randall would only say that the fire was categorized
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as undetermined pending review of the structure by an electrical engineer most house fires and even business fires
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are electrical at the point of origin right and so I'm assuming that that's what they were
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thinking they could be looking at here in this particular fire and it's also older building that's correct throughout
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the years the electric codes change and part of the house possibly wasn't up to code and so after a few days of
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Investigation they were not really sure what caused the fire they were still listing the official ruling as
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undetermined even at that time they were able to determine that the fire had started in the kitchen possibly
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behind the refrigerator and there are other reports out there that say that the fire started at the back of the
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house on the ground floor I want to be clear about something here it's not been we're going to go through
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this along our timeline here and even in these early stages of their investigation the first couple days in
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we're getting conflicting reports about the origin of the fire where it started they've not officially released to this
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day where that fire started so when you hear us reading off different points of where the fire could have started right
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just know that nothing is absolutely official on those statements these are from reports that have come out since
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the investigation has been going on well a lot of people think that it's possibly
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it was started behind the oven as well you you hear that on several reports the sad fact is they're renting this house
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this is a mother a single mother of four trying to put her kids in the best situation that she can they're renting a
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house without smoke detectors yeah the the official statements that I have or at least the reported statements that
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were coming out early on was that no foul play was suspected that a canine Officer on the scene had found no
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presence of accelerants and further investigation have found that a smoke detector at the top of the
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stairs on the second floor had no batteries in it and it was melted from the heat of the fire and there is a a
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portion of this statement here captain that says there were no working smoke detectors in the part of the house where
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the family lived right by early December the Federal Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms had officially joined the
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fire investigation it's not clear whether their assistance was requested or if they decided to jump in to this
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investigation the case went quiet shortly after that as the investigators did their thing
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and that is the end of any normalcy in this tragic case from here on out it goes kind of Haywire in my opinion a
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little wonky donkey two months after the fire on January 28th there was big news
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so remember we've been told already by this point in our timeline that there was no reason to suspect Foul Play right
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and that there were no detected accelerants by the canine officers that the girl's deaths were still listed as
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accidental at this point and so on but now as of that January 28 2017 a press release from the State Fire
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Marshal's Office stated that the fire was the result of arson again we have fire investigator Dennis Randall he said
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in a statement released on that Saturday quote the November 21st 2016 Flora Indiana fire has been ruled incendiary
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at this time there are no suspects investigators determined the fire to be incendiary after accelerants were found
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in several locations of the structure end quote so as you can imagine Captain this is huge news accelerants are found
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in several locations based off of this statement yeah and this is several locations inside the house occupied by
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Galen and the girls so the fire is no accident or the result of faulty wiring or even electrical
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short this we're now being told is a fire that was deliberately set for young sisters who all died on a fire
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at their family home [Applause] [Music] unclear how the fire started investigators are looking at the first
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floor electrical system the girl's mother injured along with two police officers who tried to save the
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sister's lives foreign such a heavy loss I miss them [Music] she was the same Mom working very hard
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and like I said her babies were her angels [Music] I can't imagine what she's going through
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[Music] foreign we're back and we just want to take a quick minute to wish all of you guys and
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your family a happy turkey day a happy and safe Thanksgiving to everybody out there tall cans in the air right Cheers
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Cheers now for anyone who's paying attention to our cases that we cover here in the garage and the dates and
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locations that we have discussed so far you may realize something pretty significant Flora that little town abuts
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another small town in Indiana that was rocked by a crime in which two girls were murdered Abby Williams and Libby
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German were murdered on the monan High Bridge Trail in Delphi Indiana on February 13
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2017. this was literally just three months after the floor of Fire so now we have six young girls
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who have all died under suspicious circumstances in just a period of three months and about a distance of eight
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miles away all in Carroll County Indiana Again these budding counties they share Community they share
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community events but they also share family members so you have one County re grieving and now you have another one
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grieving as well it's it's a very tragic time for that region and then you have the effect that this was going to take
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some of the resources away from the floor of fire investigation that being the Delphi investigation so for one
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thing as we know newer cases always get the most attention from law enforcement but some people have wondered whether
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this was a race related issue and if the four daughters that were killed in the Floor of fire were white some have said
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that the investigators would have continued their investigation with more Vigor yeah I don't know how much Vigor
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it had but the investigation definitely continued so the Four Sisters case got no televised press conferences no
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national news exposure no public outcries that the culprit would be brought to Justice in fact Robert Ives
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the Carroll County prosecutor at the time somebody who we've quoted here before when we've talked about the
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Delphi case right says he wasn't even notified that arson was suspected six months after the fire he told Fox 59
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Labs tests have been done lab results have come back but I haven't received anything like a final police report not
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one suspect had been brought to his attention he said and he goes on to say quote the floor of fire has had as much
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investigation put on it as many people involved as much serious consideration as probably any other case I've ever
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been involved in except for the Delphi murder obviously it's going to be investigated by law enforcement but this
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investigation is going to be trumped because it's going to be investigated by the firefighters as well but I think one
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of the reasons why it didn't get as much coverage initially is because the reports was
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this is an accident okay if it's an accident it's a tragic event we're going to talk about it and and now we're gonna
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have these funerals the community is going to come together and now let's start working to move past this if it
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came out the night of the fires or the next day that no we believe this is a hundred percent
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arson then you're looking at a murder investigation right away and I think that's one of the reasons that didn't
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get the coverage that it deserved yes this is a horrible horrible situation nobody's denying that neither nobody
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should even be comparing which situations more tragic they're equally tragic and I think you're spot on here Captain
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a part of the reason why we have less information or at least less news coverage and National outcry for justice
00:28:25
here is the fact that you just said it was originally ruled or thought to be either undetermined or accidental
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and so that takes a little bit away from that sentiment from everybody to begin with but the other thing too I don't
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know that it's really truly fair to kind of compare the investigations or the efforts put forward on
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these two cases it doesn't feel to me like we're comparing Apples to Apples it's a little more apples to oranges
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here because very few we've been doing this a very long time I have seen very few cases that have received as much
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attention as the Delphi murder cases yeah well look it it'd be like every child that is murdered saying it's not
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fair that JonBenet Ramsey's case got covered more than theirs that's a good example and then on top of that in the
00:29:19
True Crime podcast Community a lot of the creators we know are more likely to cover unsolved murder case than
00:29:28
unsolved arson case they're just not covered as much in the True Crime world yes and I feel like with the Delphi case
00:29:35
really the there's only a handful of cases that I think have received as much or more publicity
00:29:42
than the Delphi case and I mean we're talking JonBenet the O.J Simpson case there's very few out there now what I do
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believe here in this case for the floor Fire case is I would have liked to seen more eyes and ear balls on this from the
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get-go because I do think that there's somebody out there that might know something but
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the investigation itself has been a little weird and that's why I said earlier that that's going to be the last
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of the normalcy in this case in in this investigation yeah because we what we have here is first off arson is very
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difficult to determine and investigate right now the other problematic thing for the
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investigation itself is Most states and cities do not have a high clearance rate
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when it comes to arsons to clearing arson cases meaning most of the time they don't make an
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arrest or get a conviction in the arson case like you said it's a tough investigation because
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smoke destroys evidence fire destroys evidence similar to a crime happening and the victim being placed into water
00:31:02
that water is going to destroy so much evidence and before we move on too far into the investigation Camp then I want
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to make sure that I point something out too that really kind of ticked me off as
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I was going through my research and looking into this horrible Fire case here at some point when there was no news of
00:31:23
a good suspect or finger-pointing to people outside of the home at some point some members of the public started
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pointing their finger at Galen Rose the mother of the three girls and I found that incredibly
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I think disgusting is the best word I understand that their suspicion and that when there has been no answers and
00:31:48
you cannot find the culprit of something so horrific as this that you want to find somebody to blame
00:31:55
that you want to point the finger and say I think that's why I think that's the person that did it and that's why we
00:32:01
don't have the answers I get that end of it but everything that I can see she does not make a good suspect other than
00:32:10
the fact that we know she was in the home that night I see a woman here that has been destroyed absolutely destroyed
00:32:17
you think that Community was destroyed by this event her life has been it's been hell I'm sure every day for her has
00:32:25
been hell and now we're coming up on five years since that horrible night well my issue is that she's a she's a
00:32:32
victim in this tragic event law enforcement know that firefighters and their investigators know that to me
00:32:41
you have a duty to investigate this hard and fast and if you can rule her out initially again you didn't say it was
00:32:51
arson right away so it gets less coverage with less coverage less people talking about it less likely you're
00:32:58
going to have somebody talking and and have somebody confessing to a friend or something of of that nature but also
00:33:05
would you know that she was home rule her in or out very quickly and that's law enforcement you know
00:33:12
three days into their investigation if they know that she is not a suspect you come out and you stand hard that she is
00:33:19
not a suspect and if you do that then you stop the rumor meals and you stop having people online speculate and throw
00:33:28
blame on this lady that is already suffering so I said that the investigation itself was a little weird
00:33:35
and I think everybody will agree with me because what we have here is remember the press release that we just went
00:33:41
through where they are now changing the undetermined status to arson and so essentially if it is arson these four
00:33:48
girls were murdered now the problem with that statement with that press release was
00:33:54
we said Indiana State Police is the lead on this case they were unaware that that
00:34:02
press release was going to be issued this was not agreed upon by all of the investigating agencies that hey we're
00:34:09
ready to announce the public that we've made a determination of arson here in this case and then in June of 2017 we
00:34:18
have arson investigator Dennis Randall who abruptly resigned from his position he was the one that released that press
00:34:25
release saying that the fire was deemed arson after accelerants were found in several locations in the house now he is
00:34:33
on record saying time and time again that this disagreement between the agencies had nothing to do with him
00:34:39
resigning you know some people work at a job for a very long time or have a career we all retire at some point but
00:34:46
one thing that we should note here is some of this disagreement came about because there was a senior fire
00:34:53
investigator from Michigan working for an insurance company on the Fire case he did not agree with Randall's assessment
00:35:01
of the accelerants or how the investigation was being conducted so in February of that year he wrote a
00:35:08
critical email to the Indiana Department of Homeland Security director and the Indiana State Fire Marshal stating the
00:35:17
following the January 28 2017 press release by the State Fire Marshal about the conclusions of their investigation
00:35:25
are not correct and completely based on speculation and not evidence also the press release statement about
00:35:34
accelerants being discovered in several locations is absolutely not based on any
00:35:39
evidence discovered at the scene during the investigation and the investigator Dennis Randall was not performing a
00:35:47
proper origin and cause investigation based on the current procedures of the NFPA 921 2016 Edition this report filed
00:35:58
and press release given by Dennis Randall is truly unfortunate and potentially a grave in Justice for the
00:36:05
four little girls that perished in the fire well Colonel what's your opinions on this I think what we have here
00:36:12
Captain is a situation where we might have too many cooks in the kitchen we have about seven agencies involved in
00:36:19
this investigation and it seems to me like communication wasn't great between these different agencies
00:36:28
and I think at points in the investigation some of their findings seem to be contradicting themselves
00:36:35
along the way or other agencies findings right so I think everything was set up with good
00:36:42
intentions of working this thing together in the beginning but again you have about seven agencies that are
00:36:49
involved in this investigation I kind of feel like it was going to go wrong at some point given the number of
00:36:56
people involved we have seen in many arts and investigation where one expert states that this is a hundred percent
00:37:04
definitive that it's arson and then years later they come back and say no this is clearly accidental this was
00:37:12
faulty wiring it becomes very convoluted and very hard to determine because we're
00:37:19
not experts ourselves in this field no and we've seen that expert opinion change throughout the years this is a
00:37:28
science that they're still working on that they're still working to perfect like everything else and so where we
00:37:35
have cases that we've looked at that are 20 30 years old we look at them now in hindsight and go I don't know if they
00:37:41
got it right based off of the way that we see the science today right and we could break down each point of this
00:37:48
investigation but it would take us hours upon hours there's a lot of minutia but
00:37:54
maybe Colonel you can just break down the major points of this well sadly captain in its simplest form what we are
00:38:02
being told by the experts the ones leading this investigation members of that seven agency team is at first it
00:38:11
wasn't Foul Play undetermined next it was Foul Play accelerants were found in multiple locations inside the home then
00:38:20
uh hold up it might not be Foul Play We are still investigating to going back to eventually it was in
00:38:27
fact Foul Play It Was arson but accelerants were only found in one spot in one location and we're not being told
00:38:36
exactly what that location was yeah and when you have the community crying out for hey if this is arson where are the
00:38:44
suspects tell us who these guys are is there somebody that we should be afraid of in our community
00:38:51
but this investigation can't get on the same track on if it was an accident or arson to begin with well in
00:39:01
2017 in design in December they did a peer review which I always like when these agencies do a peer review so the
00:39:10
Indiana State Police requested that the Indianapolis Fire Department send in experts to investigate the evidence that
00:39:18
was collected at the Flora fire and we have on record Sergeant Kim Riley anyone familiar with the Delphi case will know
00:39:26
Kim Riley he says quote it's a good practice to have fresh eyes review an investigation and since this case is
00:39:33
believed to be arson the Indianapolis Fire Department was asked to conduct the peer review by the end of January of
00:39:41
2018 the report from the Indianapolis investigators was in they confirmed that the fire was intentionally set however
00:39:51
accelerants were found in only one location in the home not several in the wake of this report the Indiana State
00:39:58
Police announced that the criminal investigation would continue so as things started to look promising when we
00:40:05
have Doug Carter again people familiar with the Delphi case know Doug Carter he's the Indiana State Police spokesman
00:40:12
he spoke with local news stations at this time and he said over time people were starting to talk to us about that
00:40:21
place about that home about that area and around the home what might have been some of the activities in and around
00:40:29
that residence in the days weeks and months leading up to the fire he said police were not yet in a place where
00:40:37
they could make an arrest but quote I believe that we will and quote since that finding by seasoned arson
00:40:44
investigators over three years have passed with no arrest no publicly named suspects and really no new information
00:40:54
so here we sit five years after the fire and all we figured out by this point is
00:41:01
that it was intentionally set it is an arson fire there was four fatalities and accelerants were found in one
00:41:09
location regarding this fire but we're not getting a lot of information from investigators so maybe we can get some
00:41:17
information from the lawsuits in this case yes captain in May of 2018 Galen Rose's attorney filed a federal
00:41:26
lawsuit claiming that her landlords this is birch tree Holdings were negligent because there were no working smoke
00:41:33
detectors in the part of the house occupied by her and her children they also made a product liability claim
00:41:42
against Sears and Whirlpool the documents filed claimed that an oven and range manufactured by whirlpool and sold
00:41:50
by Sears was the cause of the fire because it was defective fire investigators had removed the range for
00:41:58
testing this part of the lawsuit however was dropped in 2020 this after extensive testing revealed
00:42:07
that the stove was not defective Galen also alleges in her complaint that the house also had a back door that had no
00:42:16
functioning lock and some outlets in the kitchen that did not work repairs to the
00:42:21
outlets took place just a couple of weeks before the fire obviously arson mitigates the fault on the part of the
00:42:32
landlord but the reality is the non-working smoke detectors present a huge huge problem for the landlords yeah
00:42:40
I feel like they're still that's still neglect and again you have a situation you have a single mother raising four
00:42:48
children she's in a situation where again trying to provide the best home environment for
00:42:54
our kids this might just be what she can afford and then sometimes you don't feel
00:43:00
like you have a leg to stand on to go well the house doesn't have this and the house doesn't have that and you need to
00:43:07
make these changes because you're afraid well if they evict you for whatever reason that you might
00:43:14
not be able to find a better situation yeah and we have the mother and family who have stated over and over again that
00:43:22
they kind of feel like this case isn't being worked as hard as it possibly could be that maybe it's
00:43:29
been shoved under the rug since so much time has gone by we do have the Indiana State Police that have pushed back on
00:43:39
that idea a little bit they have outwardly said you know we don't have any suspects in this case or we've not
00:43:45
named a suspect in this case they've said we have Persons of Interest we have people that we would like to talk to
00:43:52
people that we'd like to track down and speak with that we've not been able to do yet so a little pushback coming from
00:44:00
Indiana State Police and in fact we have some words from Doug Carter the spokesman that addresses some of that he
00:44:10
said too that he was frustrated by the stagnated investigation but he also said that the family has failed to provide
00:44:18
critical information to move forward the investigation saying quote I'm hurt that
00:44:24
they think we haven't done anything Indiana State Police investigators have taken trips to Illinois Kentucky
00:44:31
Ohio and California in the hunt for Clues Carter hinted that the investigation had stalled because of a
00:44:39
lack of cooperation he said that while Galen spoke with investigators after the fire she has avoided conversations with
00:44:46
investigators about who had access to her home Carter said quote it's very important that we understand who's been
00:44:53
at the house who had been at the house what those Dynamics were and people who did visit the home and right now we
00:45:03
don't know what those answers are we have to get access to the entire family period end quote well again all First
00:45:12
Responders to this whether it's an accident or it was on purpose the end result is four dead children that
00:45:20
shouldn't be dead and those First Responders are going to have to live with that for the rest of their lives
00:45:27
and to think that doesn't affect them or that these the law enforcement doesn't want to solve this case
00:45:33
is just I I can't believe that that is the case no I'm with you Captain I don't think that that is the situation here I
00:45:41
think that this arson investigation is a difficult one I'm not going to sit here
00:45:45
though and pretend that I don't think that they have made some stumbles the investigators themselves along the way
00:45:51
and there's been a little bit of controversy in regards to the original fire investigator and the investigation
00:46:00
as it were that Dennis Randall that we've talked about his wife uh was stealing money at one point we're
00:46:09
talking thousands and thousands of dollars from attorneys right and she was eventually sent to do some jail time
00:46:15
some prison time for that theft so there was already kind of a budding of heads between the Indiana State Police Carroll
00:46:25
County and the fire department because while some of this investigation is going on they're also deposing Dennis
00:46:34
Randall to talk to him about his wife's misdealings and to see if that he is in anyhow involved or knowledgeable about
00:46:43
what she was up to now in the end to be perfectly clear they ruled that he had no knowledge of his wife stealing money
00:46:52
so while she was out doing these wrong Deeds he doesn't seem to have any awareness of it right at least off of
00:47:00
the based off of their findings but it's not a good look from The Outsider looking in that's going look it's been
00:47:07
five years what happened here well you can't deny that he was distracted correct because of this investigation
00:47:14
and to his you know let's just say how it is it's a dirt bag wife and I don't want to call the Delphi double homicide
00:47:22
case of distraction but it certainly doesn't help keep your focus on this horrible situation which has been deemed
00:47:29
a crime it's been deemed an arson right now as far as suspects go I think we can
00:47:35
touch on that a little bit here because that's one thing that's missing from a lot of the news reports I think it's
00:47:40
fine right it's been five years Indiana State Police I've had your guys's back for a long time when we've talked about
00:47:48
Delphi and in many other cases but sadly in Indiana state is just like any other
00:47:55
state there are many cases that are unsolved but I cannot I'm not going to shy away from my frustration that I'm
00:48:02
starting to have with Indiana State Police and their poor record so far of clearing these very important cases well
00:48:09
let's just say how it is we have six victims and then thousands of victims that are connected to they become
00:48:17
victims because they're connected to the murdered victims yes and those murdered
00:48:22
children there's six murdered children that you have no goddamn answers for come on they're they're batting a zero
00:48:31
right now and I feel like I'm still gonna have their backs for a while I'm gonna give you another opportunity here
00:48:38
Indiana State Police but the sad truth of it is in regard to these two cases it's not been a good look and if you
00:48:45
were on my baseball team we probably would have cut you a long time ago well if they don't get their [ __ ] together
00:48:50
I'm cutting their funding well I'll tell you that I'm not going to send any more
00:48:54
beer fund money their way since very few people were talking about suspects let's
00:48:59
try to talk about some suspects here and again this is going to be speculation on
00:49:03
our part as we are not on the inside of this investigation and they've not allowed really anybody on the inside of
00:49:10
this investigation so a man named Mike virgin is one of the people who has been on the inside of this investigation and
00:49:19
been inside the house since the fire he runs his own fire investigation company he was hired by the mother of the 4 four
00:49:28
girls and her attorney he has not worked with them for months by this point but he has said on the
00:49:36
record that he still thinks about the house and the case often he said that he spent more than 15 years
00:49:43
as a certified fire investigator with the ATF before starting his own company so this dude's legit right he knows what
00:49:51
he's doing he's been to more than one thousand fire scenes and investigated this one just weeks after it happened
00:49:58
there are still things that he does not want to share even while we're at the five-year marker here here's an exchange
00:50:06
from an interview with him and a news team the reporter here is Stephanie Zeppelin basically Captain he's saying
00:50:16
no relation to lead he is saying that where he thought the fire started is where it started okay so his initial
00:50:25
suspicions whatever his initial suspicions were right when he got there and conducted his investigation his
00:50:31
suspicions were confirmed Zeppelin goes on to push him and say and that is where
00:50:36
and virgin says I can't really say right now because if we get to a point in the
00:50:43
investigation that they make an arrest the only people that should know where the fire started is the person who said
00:50:51
it and the investigators right he says that he believes that the fire was an arson
00:50:58
but that the goal was not to kill the children he is also not sure whether everything
00:51:04
possible is being done to solve the case if it's not to kill the children then what it was it for why was the fire
00:51:12
started he does he's he's being vague on purpose because he thinks that the answers to these questions
00:51:20
would lead you to the person or or may confirm once you have the correct suspect
00:51:28
across from you at the interview table right well because the Delphi case has been covered considerably more than this
00:51:37
case there are people out there that have tried to connect the Delphi murders to
00:51:43
the florifier I think it's fair to do so we're talking about time and proximity to the two cases are relatively close
00:51:52
and the victimology is very similar we're talking about young girls here in all the situations but to me Captain I
00:52:01
look at this and I go in the Delphi case those girls were absolutely targeted now how premeditated
00:52:08
that was is Up For Debate right but here at the Flora Fire case you could almost say that the house
00:52:17
was targeted and I say that because I did quite a bit of research on serial arsonist
00:52:26
and a lot of times they will start setting fires to structures that are not occupied right and then they will
00:52:34
graduate for a lack of better word to structures that may have occupants inside of them some of them get so bad
00:52:43
and so deranged at some point that they are purposely seeking out a structure with occupants to set fire to one of the
00:52:50
things I start questioning too is like like you said maybe the house is the Target and not the individuals in
00:52:58
it because we have it's a it's a duplex a lot of these older houses they were at
00:53:04
one point a single family home and then converted into like a duplex or to Shared living
00:53:11
so again it could just be as simply as well there's no lock on the back door so this
00:53:19
you know droopy dookie dung bucket found an entrance Point into this uh residency if the fire was set inside and
00:53:28
that's the interesting thing there to me because if you have a ruling of arson right typically in these situations and
00:53:35
again it doesn't have to be a Serial arsonist but that's the statistics that are available for us to review so that's
00:53:42
the route that I went here and what you have with a Serial arsonist typically they are only setting fires to
00:53:50
structures from the inside when they are doing that to structures that they know
00:53:55
to be unoccupied right they're not going into a home or into a business and setting the fire from inside now the
00:54:05
ones that quote graduate to setting fires to structures that are occupied typically they're setting those fires to
00:54:12
those structures on the outside and often if it's a home it would be to the porch area either the front porch or
00:54:19
back porch maybe a garage so something that's attached to the home but not necessarily inside of the home well
00:54:27
again like you said you have to look at the victims surroundings the the people that they're
00:54:35
involved with in their lives but it's again shared residency so not just one side's relatives
00:54:43
and their connections but the other side's relatives and connections as well and one thing that is certainly a
00:54:49
possibility here that could leave the door open for not only the house was itself was
00:54:56
targeted but the occupants were somewhat targeted whether they were known by name
00:55:00
or or what have you is look there is a potential that this could be a hate related crime that this
00:55:09
is some type of hate crime yes we have a small population of people but we only have about point three percent of them
00:55:17
being African-American and four right and this is no I want to be clear here this is no direct disrespect to the
00:55:26
people of Flora because you can have an outsider come in and commit a hate crime
00:55:31
in your Tiny Town and then leave right but it's something that we should examine you could Target that house by
00:55:40
saying well I know that African-American people live there and so that is something that has been
00:55:47
speculated on and unfortunately until we have somebody standing in front of a judge
00:55:52
we won't know what the motivating factor was here for the person that set the fire I want to use the words of the
00:56:00
investigators from what little words that they've released to us that I think might provide some insight to who may
00:56:08
have carried out this crime again everything that I'm seeing captain and I think you might agree with me points to
00:56:14
the words that they're saying make it sound like the fire started inside the home that they believed that it was
00:56:19
started inside the home yeah I agree and I think what backs that up is they're looking at the the range and the stove
00:56:28
they're also talking about we we heard the rumors or early statements that the fire may have started in the kitchen we
00:56:35
hear the mother complaining about Outlets not working in the kitchen area and I'm with you I feel like a Serial
00:56:44
arsonist does not feel likely here but I did spend a decent amount of time looking into that because for some
00:56:50
bizarre reason Flora has a terrible record with house fires and has a what I have to believe is a higher than normal
00:56:58
fatality rate due to house fires at least in the months in the Years around this Flora case so I went looking into
00:57:06
those because sadly once one thing that is not terribly uncommon when you have a
00:57:12
Serial arsonist is that it is in fact a first responder in fact I'll give you a quote here 94 of cereal arsonists are
00:57:20
male very few are caught 16 approximately are caught but set maybe 30 or more fires before being caught
00:57:29
First Responders set fires premeditated with intent to return to the fire in a professional capacity that's beyond
00:57:37
strange to me it's not likely but it's not terribly uncommon and like you said not a high success
00:57:45
rate in this town I mean you're having a lot of house fires again some of that is
00:57:51
going to be due to just older buildings and not buildings that are kept up I mean when I lived in
00:57:58
Richmond Indiana the thing that I was really shocked by you know where I come from in Columbus when you're renting
00:58:05
you're normally renting an apartment or apartment unit when I lived in Richmond if you're renting you're probably more
00:58:12
likely to be renting a house a single family house or a single family house that they turned into shared living and
00:58:20
again not a great success rate anywhere in this country at solving these arson fires but to give you some kind of
00:58:27
background here on what we may be looking for as far as a speculation into a physical description profile of of a
00:58:37
likely offender if it was somebody that was setting an arson fire that didn't have any ties to the family
00:58:46
that wasn't inside the home or was not invited into the home then what we're probably looking at here captain and
00:58:54
these are just National statistics 44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by white males
00:59:04
under I'm sorry 44 of the arsons that are cleared in this country are committed by individuals that are under
00:59:11
18 years of age and 64 percent are under the age of 25. males makeup as we said earlier that high
00:59:22
percentage number of offenders and 75 percent of those arrested are white 23 percent are black so if you're
00:59:33
going to put a number if you're going to play a numbers game here on the physical
00:59:36
description of a likely offender again if this is an arson not tied directly to the mother or anyone in the family
00:59:45
we're probably looking for a rather young guy or somebody that was 25 or even let's even go 29 and under at the
00:59:53
time of this fire and given the makeup of the general area and the statistics that we see
01:00:00
nationally it's highly likely that it might be a white male they committed this crime
01:00:07
where the thing gets tricky is again back to those words makes it sound like they believe that the point of origin to
01:00:16
be somewhere inside the structure which then takes away from the probability of it being a Serial arsonist
01:00:24
that makes you go back to what doug Carter has said that they don't believe that they've been given full access to
01:00:31
the family or full access to the Dynamics and what was going on in and around that home leading up to the fire
01:00:39
meaning let's say it didn't have a faulty lock we would want to know things right like
01:00:46
who had a key who had access to the home who frequented the home what would they do while they were there
01:00:54
these are all things that the Indiana State Police would like to know especially if they believed that the
01:00:59
fire started inside and if they believed that it was through the use of accelerants they've probably identified
01:01:06
the accelerant now you said something off Mike that is very important to remember people keep accelerants
01:01:13
around their homes they're part of our everyday life this is one of those cases right where
01:01:21
we have very little information and unfortunately it doesn't sound like they feel like they can come off of any of
01:01:26
that information because later a conviction might Teeter on the idea of who knows what but also the public is
01:01:34
really kind of handcuffed here where we can't offer much help because we don't know one who they're
01:01:41
suspicious of what kind of accelerant we should be looking out for who was coming and going
01:01:48
from that area and if they're even right if the investigators are even correct that it might be somebody that is tied
01:01:55
to the family well again I want to go back to the possible connection with the Delphi I just sent you a picture through
01:02:01
text message it was one of the it was just a news article talking about the floor of fires
01:02:07
it was talking about local businesses donating stuff to the family and you see a worker that looks like he is coming
01:02:16
down the steps and he was probably in charge of boarding up the windows at the time
01:02:24
and this picture kind of sparked a lot of online detectives armchair detectives going
01:02:31
like well look at this guy he kind of looks like Bridge guy and kind of looks like he's wearing the same jacket as
01:02:40
Bridge guy kind of has that dumpy pouch look in the front of the jacket like he almost has items in his front
01:02:51
pockets or something of the jacket and look I don't I don't know how much weight there is to this but I I really
01:02:58
think it's just simply it was a picture and an image this guy caught this person's eye or caught these
01:03:06
sleuthor's eyes and then use this as a possible connection between Delphi and florifiers it feels
01:03:13
to me like anybody with eyeballs somebody somebody that can see has made these comments I feel like Bridge guy a
01:03:21
lot of people look like him obviously that's one problem that Indiana State Police have had in that investigation so
01:03:27
many side by side so many people giving tips that are simply this guy looks somewhat like him I don't even think
01:03:35
that we have a great picture of Delphi of the bridge guy to begin with correct uh so I think that that's caused a lot
01:03:43
of confusion and a lot of problems I see two very different cases here um me too based off but I just wanna I
01:03:51
just wanted to point out that like yeah when you see this picture and somebody goes oh well that's happened right by
01:03:56
the Delphi and doesn't that guy look a little bit like Bridge guy somebody could go oh well I could see somebody
01:04:03
going down a rabbit hole and trying to figure out who this individual was and how are they connected not just to the 4
01:04:09
horrifiers but how they're connected to Delphi but I think it's a it's just a rabbit hole well speaking of rabbit
01:04:17
holes one that I found myself in in regards to the serial arsonist or first responder arsonist angle to it
01:04:25
this is a very weird portion of the story and I want to make sure that I cut everyone off at the pass here rather
01:04:32
than them contacting me and saying did you look at this Josh dislinger the officer that was one
01:04:38
of the good officers that was trying to help trying to get victims out of this house
01:04:45
who was sent to the hospital himself oddly enough this is not the first time that he's responded to a house fire that
01:04:53
has ended in fatality right from the information I could find Captain this is the third situation in
01:05:01
about six seven years where he's responding to a fire uh and running inside so I want
01:05:11
to make sure that we are clear here that we're not throwing him under the bus because this would be two very different
01:05:17
people that we're talking about one this guy's running into burning buildings trying to save people that's a much
01:05:24
different guy than our suspicions of a first responder serial arsonist right I want to be very clear about that I also
01:05:31
want to make sure that we point out here while the florifier that we're discussing today has been deemed an
01:05:37
arson the other two fires that I could find that he was one of the First Responders to in fact I believe he was
01:05:44
the first responder to the other fires they were deemed yeah one was electrical yeah one was an electrical fire and the
01:05:52
other uh they know the cause of so we're not talking about a situation here where
01:05:57
he's report repeatedly showing up to arson fires yeah I could see somebody have even a suspicion that oh you start
01:06:06
this fire and then you show up and then you save the individuals and then you become a local hero because of it but
01:06:14
again anybody that would do anything like that is deranged in my opinion one thing I do want to point out and give
01:06:21
kudos to a web sleuth or for you know I don't want to I don't wanna get too heated at the whole web sleuth
01:06:29
or Community here I like the web sleuthor community and yes maybe they come up with some
01:06:34
far-fetched ideas sometimes but the more that people are looking into these cases
01:06:40
the more that people are talking about them the more pressure we have on law enforcement to actually solve these
01:06:46
cases I personally I find that the internet has a lot of far-fetched ideas in these
01:06:54
cases as far as the actual web sleuthers go right I feel like they're a lot more
01:07:00
spot on or more realistic and logical in their pursuit of Justice in these cases
01:07:06
so I want to make sure that we point out here something very different from somebody just going oh this guy looks
01:07:12
like that guy um well I do want to point out that true crime garage it's been it's a proven
01:07:18
fact that true crime garage listeners are one the best web sleuthors more knowledgeable on on crime in general and
01:07:28
the best looking and best smelling listeners of all True Crime podcasts and that's a fact that is a fact that's
01:07:40
backed up by science science and Edison research this is something that's gone unreported or I don't know if that's the
01:07:48
correct word here not reported however you want to put it but one thing that I think that's interesting here is that
01:07:55
three weeks before the fire a man named John tayden filed for divorce from Galen
01:08:01
Rose and again there are literally no reports in any of the media about this or her even having a husband at all
01:08:09
right the only reason we know about this is because a Savvy web sleuther user found the marriage disillusion petition
01:08:18
so I'm not saying that there's any that this is any way connected to one another
01:08:24
but it is fact it is something that did happen so we know that John filed for divorce on October 31st of 2016.
01:08:35
and the court website listing the parties to the petition as John's address was listed in Texas so we don't
01:08:42
know where he was in relation to Flora Indiana I mean he very likely could have been at his home
01:08:50
in Texas and had been there for weeks and months and months but that is something that we did uncover when
01:08:56
looking into this case well again this case is very confusing and you want to know why law enforcement is saying that
01:09:04
she's the mother of these four children why she's not being as Cooperative as they think they sh that she should be it
01:09:12
also could be a situation hey she's going possibly through this divorce is she afraid to come forward and and to
01:09:19
tell law enforcement to look into different individuals we don't know that could she not trust the investigation
01:09:26
itself is where I think that we might stand here and I think that would make the most sense because look you're not
01:09:33
coming out right away saying whether it's arson or an accident she was very Cooperative in the early parts of this
01:09:41
investigation well and maybe her lawyer is saying look because the law enforcement has flip-flopped back and
01:09:48
forth maybe they're going to flip back eventually and say oh you know what more findings we don't think this is arson
01:09:56
well part of it and will that affect a later lawsuit a civil lawsuit down the line part of it too though Galen lives
01:10:04
in California now which last time I looked at a map is nowhere near Indiana and so where the investigation beside it
01:10:15
may have stalled and where we have Indiana State Police on record saying we don't feel like the family's being
01:10:23
overly Cooperative with us at this point in our investigation I I would like to know why are are we to believe that who
01:10:31
is at fault because of that is it simply that she doesn't live in Indiana anymore
01:10:36
and we've not made a great deal of effort to speak with her or is it simply the fact that she was a
01:10:44
mother of four children that died in a fire and some people don't recover from that
01:10:49
well that's why she moved to California she said you know early on the the the community and she has thanked the
01:10:56
community time and time again her and her family have thanked the community for their handling of this tragic
01:11:02
situation and the way that they treated her and her family afterwards and try to
01:11:06
lift them up in any way that they possibly could but you know she said I couldn't live there anymore I I lived
01:11:13
there with my four children I drove by that house it's near downtown Flora she's like I would pass that house in my
01:11:21
my life would be ruined over and over again I'm waking up to the same nightmare every day well and think about like her
01:11:30
job like you said if she's a gas station attendant the amount of locals she's seeing every day you know if I went into
01:11:37
that gas station I I'd want to give her a hug out I'd want to tell her hey I'm sorry for your loss
01:11:43
hearing that hundreds and hundreds of times a day as as heart felt as it might be
01:11:49
it's just it's like a dagger every time and sadly what I'm worried about here Captain as more time passes
01:11:57
we know how all these cases go be it arson or otherwise it just becomes less likely
01:12:03
that we will get Justice for these four girls and that we will get some answers this is such a tragic
01:12:12
case take the time to go to our Instagram or Twitter or Facebook we'll be posting
01:12:18
pictures of these four beautiful girls and other photos that are related to this case you
01:12:25
can find those again True Crime garage wherever Twitter Facebook Instagram Indiana State Police
01:12:33
are still investigating this sad and tragic case they are still looking for the person or persons responsible they
01:12:41
would like information leading to the arrest of those persons or the person responsible for this fire remember four
01:12:50
young girls were killed in their Flora Indiana home on November 21st 2016 this was determined to be an arson fire there
01:13:00
is a reward for information if you have any information please please reach out to the Indiana State Police you can call
01:13:09
them at 1-800-382-4628 foreign [Music] thank you so much for listening thank you for letting us whisper in your ear
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great listeners this week today we are recommending that you go cheer yourself up and enjoy some really damn good music
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Williams music is available on Apple music Spotify and pretty much wherever you go to find really great music check
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plenty more on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com yeah and a big cheers to our buddy Travis until next
01:14:26
week be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music] foreign