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[Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that if you strap on your beer goggles he's a
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perfect 10. he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen
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and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend and happy craft beer
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[Music] tonight we are drinking pirate Bomb by the great people over at Prairie artists
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and Ales and beautiful Tulsa Oklahoma Army matey garage grade four and three quarter bottle caps out of five I've got
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my snifter glass full of this fantastic Imperial Stout and it's delicious with hints of vanilla coconut full bodied and
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smooth maybe at the end of today's show I'll tell you my favorite pirate joke and maybe I'll punch it in your face but
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first pirate bomb was brought to us by these land lovers first up we have Rebecca in South Yorkshire UK and in
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London England we have Daisy oh Daisy you just as pretty as a daisy and a shout out to Ashley and Courtney down in
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Texas also in Texas we say thank you to whiskers and another listener that's as curious as a cat Danielle and Danielle's
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out in Briggsdale Colorado recommending beers from weld Works Brewing Company and the big cheers we like your jib to
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Amber from North Branch Michigan next we have a quest question this is from Christina and Copenhagen Denmark she
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wants to know when we are going to do our world tour oh well well see what happened what I think what the captain's
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trying to say is that he's on a do not fly list and last but not least we have in the big Buckeye state Amanda and
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Champion Ohio and you're all champions in my heart for donating to the Beer fun and if you like to do so go to truecrime
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Snapchat Facebook Twitter untapped all that stuff you can find us at True Crime garage and that is enough for the
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biggest news everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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foreign [Music] [Music] it was a parent's worst nightmare that has lasted 10 years and one family
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doesn't want you to forget two missing teenage girls this is KOA of News at 10 on Rhonda Justice and I'm dowel quick
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tomorrow marks the 10th anniversary of the murders of Danny and Kathy Freeman and The Disappearance of their daughter
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and her friend the Freemans were murdered and their home was burned to the ground in Welch Oklahoma December
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30th 1999. their 16 year old daughter Ashley was hosting a birthday sleepover with her friend Laura Bible while the
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bodies of the Freeman parents were found inside the burned home no Trace if Ashley and Laura were ever found
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Laura's mother hopes someone could still come forward with information and collect the fifty thousand dollar reward
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we're gonna have more on the anniversary and the investigation tomorrow [Music] [Music]
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we were getting into the theories regarding the unsolved murders of Danny Freeman and his wife Kathy Freeman as
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well as the mysterious disappearances of their daughter Ashley Freeman and her friend Laura Bible which took place
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December 30th 1999 continuing on with those theories one we hadn't got to yet was Theory number three that the police
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had killed Danny and his wife and then Set Fire to the the trailer destroying evidence and abducting the girls
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let's talk about this one here for a second because this is one that is near and dear to the the hearts and minds of
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the Freeman Family there's a lot of family members that believe that this is the actual situation
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um well when one of your loved ones comes out and says hey if anything ever happens to me
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uh look into the sheriff's department yeah and that's exactly what Danny had said to his brother Dwayne before uh he
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was killed right and he had also told his brother that that according to Danny that he was told by the sheriff's
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department that they could do anything that they wanted to him and his family and there wasn't a thing that Danny
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could do about it I never would have thought when we started the likelihood that law enforcement would be involved
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or possibly involved in so many different cases yeah this is something that we seem to bump up against time and
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time again when we're covering these unsolved cases but the situation here as we spoke about
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Danny's run-in with the law you know this all occurred after his son Shane was shot by the police
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now the situation is this that we also have some other factoring things here Not only was Danny following around and
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hanging out in front of the officer's home and being followed by the officers as well
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but according to local accounts the Danny Freeman once threatened the lives of police officer David Hayes this is
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the officer that shot and killed his son Shane the other thing is that Danny according again to Dwayne his brother
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said that the sheriff's department was threatening him as well so we can sound like you know Danny was uh the harasser
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and also being harassed himself and I don't know all of the specifics regarding their son being shot but all
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reports that I have read seems to me like it was a Justified shooting by police as well as you know they did
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conduct their own investigation and they state that it was a Justified shooting that the officer David Hayes that he was
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simply defending himself against an armed man that was rumored to be suicidal that wanted suicide by cop that
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was seemed to be out Willy you know willingly committing crime right I think your vocab ability is wrong I don't
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think it was a man you know I still at that point I think he's a boy mentally he seemed very much like a boy at that
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time but the the the situation is this okay there is no evidence to suggest this theory is correct
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um the the officer David Hayes who shot and killed the son Shane his brother is in law enforcement as well now both of
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them have taken polygraph exams after the girl's disappearance and there was nothing within those exams to conclude
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or suspect either one of them of having any involvement in The Disappearance or the murder of the Freemans and lower
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Bible now we also have that they're not even considered suspects in this investigation and one thing that I want
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to make clear too that they were never personally involved in the investigation of the murders or The Disappearance
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right because there was a conflict of interest so as soon as this case took off they immediately got the the
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Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation involved and for them they took over the case because they're like like said
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there's a conflict of of Interest there is one strange connection that I would like to bring up though and this
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this would kind of further the law enforcement conspiracy theory here is that uh several of the girls relatives
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participated in a pilot of a television program called what really happened this
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took place in October of 2001. the show was not purchased by any of the networks
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and has never been uh broadcasted now there was a woman named Deanna Dorsey uh she's a nurse who assisted the Freemans
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on the night of Shane's death she appeared on the show you know gave interviews and such the other connection
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for Deanna Dorsey is that her daughter was a friend of Ashley's back in 1999. now Deanna was shot and killed at the
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hospital where she worked this was shortly after a taping of this show what really happened authorities said okay
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hold on so this nurse comes out and she's on this TV program that never gets picked up right but for everybody all
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accounts people thought it was going to get picked up and she comes out and makes these claims on this show and then
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she is killed at her work she I don't know that she claimed that law enforcement was involved all I'm saying
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is that she gave interviews regarding this this TV show now this would have been known in the area throughout the
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community that this show was taking place that they're recording and they're interviewing different people I mean
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right again let's remind everybody this is a town of 600 people you know out so we're a very small community yeah and
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the neighboring town which is the large one has over 6 000 people so again another small community the situation is
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this though my guess is that she's probably somebody that you would want to seek out to interview because at this
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point when you're when you're making the show the parents of Shane no longer exist to conduct these interviews she
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was close to the family and helped them during the grieving process when they lost their son right and so she would
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have known some intimate details regarding the death of Shane and regarding how the family was trying to
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cope with the loss of their son Deanna Dorsey she was shot and killed by a man named Ricky Martin
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and he was a former employee of the same of the same hospital where they both had
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worked now this gentleman Ricky Martin he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia well he also suffered from shaking his
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bon bon well they believed that he was angry because because he was let go from his job and that he came into work and
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he shot Deanna Dorsey at at his former work I'm sorry to be insensitive it's just it's hilarious his name is
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hilarious now I think why people connect this to you know there's some obvious connections immediately you know with
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with Deanna Dorsey having been close to the Freeman family and her daughter knows Ashley Freeman so there's those
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connections she's involved in the taping of this TV show but I think what kind of
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tops that theory off the conspiracy theory off here is that Ricky Martin was was shot and killed by police that same
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day and you know how it is it's it's oh he was shutting her up and now we're shutting him up
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um but the thing is he he did he stopped he suffered from this this disease and he must have freaked out that's the only
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thing they can come up with is that he freaked out about having been let go and that he went in there with the intention
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of harming somebody as a type of Revenge for losing his job the or shooting up the whole place it doesn't look like it
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was she was I think just in the wrong place at the wrong time I don't think she was targeted directly by Ricky
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Martin and you have good reason to believe that because law enforcement and the hospital itself have come out and
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stated that the two of them didn't know each other that that even though that they worked in the same location no one
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could make any ties between the two of them that that Ricky Martin would have had any reason to Target her or that
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specifically went there to kill her she just happened to be the person that he encountered when he was on this Rampage
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well we normally know where I sit on these things Captain conspiracy you've been accused many times of loving a good
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conspiracy yeah I'm guilty as charge that's because I'm crazy but where do you sit on this
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um the whole police theory that the police was involved I don't think that the police Theory holds any weight for
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me I I see where we have the confrontation between Danny and the other officers and the harassment yeah I
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I see that and and here's here's where I'm going to take this thing did Danny cross the line in my opinion
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yes did law enforcement cross the line in this situation before this family was murdered
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um I don't know and I'll tell you why because here's the thing we have reports of Danny sitting in his vehicle in front
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of Officer Hayes's home that's much different to me than if you were if if you sat in front of my home in a vehicle
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multiple times I would feel like you're threatening my family if you personally just said something to my face where you
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threatened me I would take that that would be a lot less to me than a threat of you sitting in front of my family's
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home noted now I do understand Blue Blood man you got to have your you got to have your brothers and sisters backs
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you know you can't we can't have disgruntled citizens sitting in front of officers homes intimidating them yeah
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however I don't think that your way of taking care of that problem is that would make any sense it doesn't make any
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sense to go and kill and murder the family and abduct these girls to me um you they would have had means of
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taking down Danny Freeman I believe I believe they that that if some of the rumors were true regarding Danny and his
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behavior right I believe they probably could have arrested him on on a number of charges and that they would have felt
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safe with their families and and their personal safety having him simply Behind Bars and not have to do harm to innocent
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people that happen to be in it family members are associated with Danny so I think that's why it doesn't hold any
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weight for me I think that the police if they in the sheriff's department if they
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really wanted to correct the problem by being bullies they could have done it by
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different means right so what you're saying is pretty much what I think as well but I'm going to put a little
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clearer right I don't think you're as clear as we could be crystal clear right so what you're saying is and what I
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believe is that they could have they could have removed Danny from the situation or they could have just taken
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care of Danny and why would you involved you know the wife well then and then also why would you involve the daughter
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and then on top of that why would you involve the daughter's friend right that doesn't make a lot of sense to me I
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think part of them felt bad because this guy was harassing them but I think part
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of them felt bad like we had to do our job we had to defend ourselves but I guarantee you they didn't feel good
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about themselves no when they got home here's this kid that was suffering from maybe a mental illness maybe just you
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know maybe it was depression who knows but he was acting out for some reason he was acting out
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and they had this officer had to defend his life and that that's a a tough thing
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for that officer to have to do and then it's a small town small community you have to look this father in the eye
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and you know what you did but you know what you did was write and to defend yourself the problem with any of these
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police conspiracies or these law enfor enforcement conspiracies is if it was just Danny they just found
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Danny dead in the home it was Ablaze and nobody else was dead nobody was missing
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well yeah look to the sheriff but these people that want to start thinking that law enforcement would take an innocent
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person that has nothing to do with anything and to you know murder that person or place that person on
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somebody's property after the after they murdered them it makes zero sense yeah and I think you really hit upon
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something here because I think that that's probably the reason why they never arrested Danny for any of these
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things and put him behind bars so that he couldn't hurt their families I think they were trying to show Danny a bit of
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compassion right and and in the means that did they threaten him or threaten his his family I believe that probably
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happened yeah and but I don't think that they had any intention of carrying out those threats Now remind you I'm A
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Thousand Miles removed from the situation and and you know many years later but but my gut feeling tells me
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that you know when when you're sitting out in front of my home and I know that that I
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unfortunately was thrown into a situation where I had to defend myself and your son lost his life
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I can I could see myself saying you know what I'm going to deal with this problem of
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him being in front of my home by him intimidating my family I'm going to deal with this problem with words and not
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with fist not with cuffs not with guns I'm going to deal with it with words and if I have to get into an argument with
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this gentleman or if I have to have an exchange with this gentleman and he's threatening me and it leads me to
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threaten him I I can believe that the threats happen but again I don't think there there was any intention of
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carrying out any of those threats well on the big red flag here too is initially at the scene it was just Kathy
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that they found dead it wasn't until um it wasn't until the Bibles came around that they found Dany dead themselves or
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or you know the dog's help yeah so you know if you're trying to cover something up you'd think you'd do a better job of
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uh policing the crime scene well not only that they released the crime scene very early you know that's why the
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Bible's found Danny's body and then to further that the the following day after Danny's body was found they opened up
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that property because it was a large property to volunteers they had over 500 people there that day searching the
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property for any evidence regarding the the whereabouts of the girls or you know
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possible evidence of who committed these murders right so what you're saying is why open this up for a search party if
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you're trying to contain it yeah it would be really fishy if they said you know what yeah we understand we got two
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missing girls here but we don't want you searching the property they could have sat on that property for days and days
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and days right that would have been fishy so ah look I know I I know you start getting this gut feeling I know you're
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listening to this case out there and you start thinking oh maybe it's law enforcement I'm my gut is telling me
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after you look at the evidence after you look at the procedures that took place I don't think there's a lot of weight to
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that theory so let's remind everybody what the remaining three theories were regarding this case now mind you these
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are theories based off of law enforcement based off of people in the community family members these are these
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are their theories and I want to go through these three because I think what we're going to cover next and in the
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second half of today's show will I want you to think about these different suspects as we go through them and how
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they could fit into either of these theories because they're they're somewhat similar so Theory number four
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was that the police were not involved but Danny was targeted and he was the target due to drug activity Theory
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number five was that the girls were actually the Target that the motivation for this attack was abduction and that
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the parents were just killed and the fire was set to hide evidence human trafficking and then the sixth theory
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that they were working off of was that someone that knew the family had killed the Freemans and abducted the girls and
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it's so interesting to me when there's multiple confessions into a case well they start rolling in and this the first
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one comes 18 months after the crime was committed and this is a jailhouse confession by several inmates
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they state that they had seen the girls or had knowledge of the girls being at a
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home that was in the area this home is also known to law enforcement and this would have been on New Year's Eve 1999
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so the day after the girls were abducted these guys were saying that they had knowledge or seen the girls there now
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this was a suspected drug house their accounts are this that that the girls were being held captive there they were
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being assaulted and tortured and they didn't know what happened to the girls but they knew that they were there on
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that date the situation the the police they have rumor to believe this because like I
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said this is already a home that is known to law enforcement this is a home that they use the drug house yeah they
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keep an eye on the house they keep an eye on the occupants of the house so they get a search warrant the necessary
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warrant and they decide to raid the home good they do not find any evidence of the girls having been there now mind you
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this is 18 months later right they did find a lot of evidence regarding methamphetamine manufacturing and so
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they were able to take down the the necessary people because of that and make charges there the other strange
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thing is that one of the jailhouse confessors claimed that there was a tape of some of a VHS tape of some of the
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activity that was going on that day in that home and that he didn't know where the tape would be located or where it
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could be found but he had viewed a portion of that tape at some point and the the tape would have been of them
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being tortured is that what they're saying um probably most likely or um you know you don't have to use your
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imagination too much to to to think of what could be on that tape um now I could not locate these the the
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men that made these statements I could not locate their names and well that doesn't surprise me because they're
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right but essentially it's not a confession because they're not the ones that were
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you know they didn't abduct the girls they're the ones that said hey well we were at this party and we knew about it
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we turned a blind eye that's kind of what they're confessing to right well which would be a crime but they're
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probably sitting down stating that you know what I can give you I can give you what I know as long as this doesn't come
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back on me right you're guilty of being a piece of [ __ ] yes um but again I it doesn't surprise me
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that we cannot locate the names of these guys because it's a jailhouse confession
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they're not going to release these names that's the kind of stuff that they you know you get the prison Justice within
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the walls uh they have a part of the other reason that they wouldn't release this stuff is that they're they're
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confessing to being a part of something you know again not the ones that captured these girls
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but they're at this party with these known drug dealers that by all accounts if you're saying if what
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they're saying is true these people murdered these people uh they these people murdered the parents and then
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abducted these teenage girls and so law enforcement doesn't have to say who who said this stuff right you know and
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obviously I think law enforcement felt like there was some validity there because they did the raid yeah so again
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that that doesn't mean that that what they're saying is not true so it could be it could be true yes but
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but as an inmate if I sit down and I'm going to pass along knowledge of something I know about of a horrible
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crime I'm not going to want you to use my name you know well I don't want anybody to use my name well the the my
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final thought on this Theory here Captain is is there is one little tidbit of of evidence here if if in fact these
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stories are true then the one gentleman stated that well I shouldn't say Gentlemen The one dude stated that there
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was a VHS tape now um does that tape still exist I would I would the smart wager and me would say
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no that it's probably been just destroyed and gotten rid of but keep that in the back of your mind there
00:25:26
because these things have you know the truth has a way of coming out in in the long run and this is something that you
00:25:33
could hold on to that that there might be some evidence out there that somebody could stumble across one day or find one
00:25:40
day and we would be able to to punch microphones we would be able to solve this case regarding this situation
00:25:49
well and this goes back to my original thoughts of why the heck they probably moved out there to begin with I mean if
00:25:55
you're just trying to grow a little pot you know maybe you'd want some land I'm not saying that people want just want
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land anyways but when they talk about drug activities and be in a rural area I kept on saying that there's probably
00:26:09
methamphetamines or or something of that nature going on oh it's definitely going
00:26:14
on in the area yeah it's definitely going on in the area but I'm saying going on with Danny that's my gut
00:26:20
feeling so to me I mean this is super creepy if if why would you take these girls hostage other than for human
00:26:28
trafficking and then you're going to videotape their tort them being tortured or sexually abused or whatever you're a
00:26:36
sick individual you know what I mean and it's very uh kind of reminded me of uh True Detective
00:26:44
season one which was a crazy show but anyways it's that to me there's so many creepy levels of that and uh I wish we
00:26:54
would know I want to know where the investigation took them further but if these people
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were just uh making drugs and then up their game as far as criminal activity they might have fled the area and we
00:27:08
never will know who it was and it probably was multiple people as well do you think it's a possibility because you
00:27:15
know there's there's usually rumors amongst criminals right there's there's there's rumors amongst that crowd
00:27:22
um do you think that there's a possibility that these guys in jail that that maybe had heard a rumor that this
00:27:29
drug house was involved somehow with these girls or the death of Danny and thought you know what we're going to try
00:27:35
to help they're there's well not only that there's a reward and and maybe if if this rumor is right I'm gonna I'm
00:27:42
gonna pretend like I know something and uh maybe I get out early maybe I get released early you know maybe just kind
00:27:49
of taking a shot in the dark there yeah possibly but I think uh the VHS tape it's either just a
00:27:57
detail that you heard or you know it could have been detailed you made you make up I don't know to make yourself
00:28:03
seem a little more believable but uh I think there's some weight to this and and there makes and this Theory makes
00:28:09
some logical sense let's get into more theories right after this quick beer break
00:28:14
[Music] foreign we're back cheers mates cheers we have a confession to get to here and this is
00:28:42
from an article titled authorities investigate death row Killers claims this is from the Joplin Globe back in
00:28:49
May of 2002 and I'll read some pieces of this article so we can get a good idea of what's going on Tommy Lynn sells age
00:28:59
38 who is considered one of the nation's most prolific serial killers made the claim in a letter to the Joplin Globe
00:29:06
postmarked May 10th this is he's claiming to know the whereabouts of the two missing girls
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cells had previously claimed involvement in the 1999 disappearance of Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible but he said that
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he couldn't remember any details in the letter cells said he could now take authorities to where the girls are
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buried he says that he wants you know what does he remember about December 30th well he
00:29:35
states that he he wants to say this that he remembers where the two bodies are and he believes he can take them to
00:29:44
the bodies and he also wants to remember a fire Tommy sells was a Drifter and sometimes Carnival mechanic during his
00:29:53
20-plus years on the road sells claims he has murdered more than 50 people authorities have confirmed 17 of his
00:30:01
kills some of them in Illinois Missouri and Oklahoma authorities said that they are skeptical of the serial Killer's
00:30:09
latest claim but said that they will talk to him right but what we do know is that he was in the area you know he has
00:30:16
killings in that area they they state that he would be considered a very good suspect or at
00:30:23
least a suspect and they said that they don't want to talk the authorities don't
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want to talk about The credibility of anything because you know they're going to talk to them
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because they don't have very many leads in this case and they want to check everything out well what happens when
00:30:39
they talk to them well his previous claim was that he couldn't remember anything or any of the details regarding
00:30:45
the case or the crime itself now after some some more time has elapsed now he's all of a sudden he's clear about what
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happened and he can lead him to the bodies he can talk about the details of the murders
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the end result is that they take him to where he said he disposed of the bodies and this was near the Red River which is
00:31:06
on the border of Oklahoma and Texas and the first of all they don't find any remains or any evidence uh that that the
00:31:16
girls were ever there or that their bodies were there furthermore the way that he had described the area and the
00:31:23
location of where they would find these bodies beforehand once they take him to the location it doesn't even match up
00:31:30
with with his description of where he says he placed the bodies furthermore he couldn't give any real
00:31:38
details about the crime itself regarding how the Freemans were killed how the crime went down
00:31:46
um he didn't know any details to to further make them believe that he had any insight to give them it was yeah and
00:31:54
you think with all these goofy false confessions that law enforcement would get to the point where they go okay well
00:31:59
in this scenario we have two dead bodies right give me details of these right before we
00:32:07
go on a wild goose chase looking for these missing girls well they actually did because he wanted to talk about this
00:32:14
previously and he couldn't provide him with any information so they didn't take him out on the road they waited until he
00:32:20
stated you know now now I know this information now I can pass along this information they believe that everything
00:32:25
that he was telling them was stuff that he would have been able to find in the newspapers right you know stuff that you
00:32:31
and I could have told them about the crimes so this basically goes nowhere and we're back to square one yeah this
00:32:37
leaves us with a second confession and this comes from a guy by the name of Jeremy Jones and I'll take you through a
00:32:43
little bit of his background so we can figure out if if his confession will carry more weight than that of tommyline
00:32:50
cells so back in 1997 uh Jones receives probation he's put on probation for five
00:32:57
years uh he's living in the Oklahoma area and during he's put on probation because he has committed sexual assault
00:33:05
three counts of sexual assault actually so he receives five years of probation right in the year 2000 in December of
00:33:12
2000 on the year 2000 he leaves Oklahoma and he goes to Alabama now during the course of him leaving the state he has
00:33:22
assumed a new identity and he's even received a social security number along with personal info he got this from a
00:33:32
woman whose son was in prison in Missouri so he steal this person's identity and he's now in Alabama well
00:33:40
while in Alabama in 2003 he's arrested for indecent exposure in 2004 he's arrested for criminal
00:33:49
trespassing now the problem here is Captain that during both of those arrests you know
00:33:56
fingerprints are taken and they fail to realize the real identity of this person
00:34:03
he's now going by the Alias of John Paul Chapman real name Jeremy Jones the authorities after two arrests they do
00:34:11
not make the connection that John Paul Chapman is actually Jeremy Jones in 2004 he is arrested for the rape slaying of a
00:34:23
45 year old woman this is Lisa Nichols and this took place in Alabama now he shot her he mutilated the body and he
00:34:32
set her trailer on fire the situation is as such he states that they were out together
00:34:40
that she asked him to come back to her home and at some point he believed she was
00:34:46
trying to rob him she was going through his things or his backpack or something like that and he flew into a
00:34:53
drug-induced rage killed her and set the trailer on fire the problem here is we have a situation where it's so much
00:35:02
similar to the Freeman murder you know we have people that were shot in a trailer trailer set on fire yeah he's
00:35:08
he's looking pretty suspicious at this point well to make matters worse you know we already have this horrific
00:35:14
killing of of the the woman Lisa Nichols but law enforcement failed to discover his true identity you know he was he was
00:35:24
on probation and that probation was revoked in the year 2000. so he would have he's a fugitive from the law at
00:35:33
this point so even though you have something as small as an indecent exposure or a criminal trespassing
00:35:39
charge this would they would they would then you know ship your butt back to Oklahoma
00:35:44
and poor Lisa Nichols would still be alive I don't want to harp on law enforcement too much because for those
00:35:51
of for those of people that don't know that the fingerprinting process is pretty complicated and it it's not
00:35:57
uncommon that the things identities or such could slip through the cracks regarding fingerprints one technology is
00:36:05
way ahead now and it but it's a little troubling when it happens you know more than once with the same individual
00:36:12
especially somebody as heinous as as Jeremy Jones as evil as he is because while he is while they're waiting to
00:36:21
convict him we we got a guy he ends up confessing to a total of 13 murders they only end up charging him with three
00:36:29
of those they could only find evidence enough to con get a conviction of three of those but what happens later is that
00:36:37
he then confesses to the murders of Danny Freeman Kathy Freeman and abducting Ashley Freeman and Laura Bible
00:36:46
and disposing of their bodies after he murders them his story goes that he knew somebody and
00:36:56
he knew a man I knew somebody okay well he knew a man named Charlie okay and Charlie was associated with Danny
00:37:06
I've heard several accounts of this story that that either Jeremy Jones was owed money by Danny Freeman or that
00:37:14
Danny Freeman owed this Charlie guy some money okay regardless that's his connection to
00:37:20
Danny Freeman he goes to the Freeman home to collect what what is his what he believes is his
00:37:29
he says that he spends hours driving around looking for the Freeman home this makes sense there's not a lot of proof
00:37:36
that he would have known where the home was with the exception of had he ever gone there with Charlie or received
00:37:44
information from Charlie then he might have known where their home is right but such a remote area it's it's very easy
00:37:50
if your friend lives in you know if your friend lives in a subdivision right that
00:37:55
if you drive around enough you go oh I remember this I remember that that's a lot harder to do in a remote
00:38:02
area well and I want to I want to read somebody's description of the Freeman's home so they can get an idea of how hard
00:38:09
I think that this home would be to find especially in the dark you know I know I
00:38:14
have I have several friends that live out in the sticks I'll I'll call it and but I've driven past I've been to their
00:38:21
homes many times and driven past the entrance to their home even in the broad daylight because they live so far off
00:38:27
the road uh it's not well marked but this is a description from a local person that I found regarding the
00:38:34
Freeman home they state that the Freeman's home is a trailer located just outside of Welsh City Limits it's
00:38:41
located at the end of a half mile dirt driveway the property is only identifiable by a simple mailbox that
00:38:50
sat on top of iron chain of an iron chain stand and it basically the only indication that you would have that
00:38:58
that's somebody's driveway and just not some random dirt road is this tiny little mailbox that's not you know it's
00:39:04
not lit um it's and they have a little do most people have glowing mailboxes well they
00:39:11
have a little no but they might have a light above or a street light would be located near the the driveway not this
00:39:17
situation and that there's a little bit of a rock formation near the driveway as
00:39:23
well that to the locals is the only indication that there is a home back there okay so where does this story go
00:39:30
from here he's at the home and he is he's murdered Danny and Kathy he then sets the trailer on fire and
00:39:41
unbeknownst to him that there were other people inside the the trailer he goes outside he's getting ready to leave the
00:39:49
property when the two girls come running out of the burning trailer all right so
00:39:54
let's back this up a little bit so he goes in to collect his money from Danny there's probably some kind of tussle
00:40:02
because like we know Danny has a broken collarbone so he gets shot then he has to shoot Kathy the wife
00:40:09
because she's there she's a witness yep okay so that all checks out driving around for a while
00:40:16
because you can't find the property it's hard to find it's night time that checks
00:40:21
out right there's two individuals in the trailer that he's not aware of so do the girls hear what's going on
00:40:33
and they just stay in their room and hide because you know he he doesn't know why they they didn't appear or doesn't
00:40:40
State why that he doesn't see them until or even know that they're in the home until the place is set on fire he says
00:40:49
that when they came out of the trailer real quick does he have a rough timeline of when he's claims he's he shows up to
00:40:57
the Freeman's home um this because we know that the boyfriend was there till probably 9 30
00:41:02
10 30. according to statements that I read this would put him in the Freeman home in the early morning hours of the
00:41:10
30th okay so so so we could assume the girls would be asleep and I I do want everybody to keep in mind
00:41:17
um that this is a bit of a vague confession and the reason I believe this is is because he is a well-known Jeremy
00:41:25
Jones is a well-known meth head um he might not be the details of this crime might not even be clear to him but
00:41:33
he's States anyway that the girls came rushing out of the trailer and to his surprise
00:41:39
they didn't know that he was the perpetrator of anything that had happened that had taken place before the
00:41:45
the trailer was Ablaze well maybe they slept through it he he says that they thought or assumed that he was passing
00:41:53
by and saw the fire and had intended to report it or to help in some manner so he gets them in his vehicle and they
00:42:03
willingly leave the property the problem is they're not going to be alive for very much longer because of
00:42:12
what kind of animal Jeremy Jones is right well and he he obviously seems like a sex offender yeah you know he
00:42:19
definitely is and he says that he drove them to a location that was about an hour away
00:42:26
um and he he assaulted one of the girls um one of the girls tried to run off uh he shot her and then murdered the other
00:42:35
girl and then he threw their bodies down into a mine shaft okay so the problem with this mine shaft
00:42:45
is that it's one of these there's multiple there's multiple pits and stuff in this location and it also has a
00:42:52
series of underground tunnels um that could be flushed out from time to time due to water right right so he
00:43:00
and he's confessing years later so yeah this is years and years of possible flushing of these mines
00:43:07
yeah and they the thing I don't like about his story and maybe and this would I want to know your thoughts
00:43:15
but the thing that I don't like about his story is that his story seems to make some
00:43:21
sense it makes a lot of sense even for a meth head uh you know um because it's like like you said
00:43:33
didn't know they were there he has a motive there's a logical explanation of why he would want Danny dead and then
00:43:42
there's obviously a logical explanation of why he wants Kathy dead because she's there right and he's probably in a
00:43:50
meth State anyways yeah you know up or down and I don't know much about it so I'm not captain of meth head
00:43:59
um but then the girls are there and here's this guy with you know these sexual demons
00:44:07
and he is a sexual demon exactly right so so that's what that's to me it's seems
00:44:16
like everything he's saying makes sense uh with the exception of they do they do
00:44:22
an extensive search of the area in the mine shafts these pits the tunnels nothing is found of the girls
00:44:33
um and immediately when he realizes that they didn't find anything well he takes
00:44:36
back his confession he's no longer confessing to to them that's probably a play by his lawyer though
00:44:43
um well here's the other thing too though you said he you know he confessed to 13 they only tried him for three yeah
00:44:50
but those held up yeah so okay so we so now we do have some evidence that this guy confesses to stuff that he actually
00:44:58
does do and then there is obviously enough evidence to find it because if he confessed and if they would have found
00:45:05
that body if they would have found those bodies right that that would have been enough to convict him right of course so
00:45:12
again I think that's a play from the lawyer you know and recant the statement um
00:45:18
when you compare the two confessions Tommy Lynn sells to Jeremy Jones Tommy Lynn sells he some of the things he
00:45:26
confessed to they were able to take off the books and clear because um his confessions were accurate however
00:45:34
I would throw Tommy Lynn cells into the category of he's probably Our Generations version of Henry Lee Lucas
00:45:41
um you know another another killer but somebody that confessed to multiple killings you know they they saw it on TV
00:45:50
and therefore he confessed and I think that I think Tommy Lynn sells was basically just a very weak Disturbed man
00:45:57
um and I certainly guilty of all multiple murders however I think he wanted to be much like Henry Lee Lucas
00:46:04
where he was thought as of some kind of Genius serial killer type I don't know if the authorities or if the media or if
00:46:13
Tommy Lynn sells himself gave him the nickname but he was known by the nickname of coast to coast you know
00:46:19
meaning he had killed multiple people in multiple States you're not going to ruin
00:46:23
my AM radio show for me and go ahead oh yeah calling him Coast to Coast um but regarding Jeremy Jones you know
00:46:33
we know he is he was from Oklahoma uh the strange thing too is that he leaves the state the following year
00:46:43
um you know it it don't I know that yes he was on probation yes his probation was revoked um and he became a fugitive
00:46:51
maybe he was running simply from that I would wonder if he was running from these four murders that he had committed
00:46:58
and later confessed to recap chanting that confession right again the only the only thing I believe about the recanting
00:47:05
is that it's a lawyer play and then also I mean as far as confessions go where does
00:47:11
um the Bible family stand on any of these confessions um if I had to guess what they would
00:47:18
would think and believe I their Theory laureen's Theory would probably lean most towards Jeremy Jones right and and
00:47:29
my you know my theory and the reason why we kind of hinted on this a little bit that how tough it would be to locate
00:47:36
their home it it would seem very strange to me that a person like Tommy Lynn sells
00:47:42
that that he would have been able to locate this home I don't think he knew these people I don't think he knew the
00:47:49
Freemans and it doesn't strike me that this is the type of home that some random killer traveling the streets
00:47:57
um you know there's a killer on the road quote Jim Morrison uh would just stumble
00:48:02
upon this home and commit this horrible crime yeah and I think with uh Jeremy Jones there's a connection to Danny for
00:48:12
one and then now just go with me on this this is not too far-fetched you need to collect money why
00:48:23
because your math head right so you go and you're gonna kill Danny then you're gonna kill Kathy
00:48:31
and then these girls come running out and you don't know a bunch of details of what has happened or what hasn't
00:48:41
happened right you're kind of blurry with your details but we have the first confession being these
00:48:47
people in jail saying well the rumor is that we heard or a party that we were at
00:48:53
could have been Charlie's house right and is this Charlie uh is this Charlie individual connected to this
00:49:03
meth house and is it is it possible that there's Jeremy Jones connected or Charlie connected to the Smith house
00:49:11
right and then that would make their story make sense and if any of those uh jail
00:49:18
house snitches I'd say could come forward and say Jeremy Jones was at that party then there's more
00:49:25
validity to that confession as well if that is the way it happened you're saying that Jeremy Jones would having
00:49:33
abducted the girls would then have something to barter with uh to try to obtain more drugs or pay back a debt to
00:49:41
his drug dealers right or because he killed Danny maybe he found some money you know in the
00:49:48
freezer maybe he didn't or maybe it was just I have these girls they're not aware that I killed their parents and
00:49:56
I'm going to take them to this party this drug party on New Year's they're putting the girls there I'm just saying
00:50:04
that that is a possibility there are some problems with his confession um he was arrested on the 30th at 4am
00:50:12
and this would have put him in the area of the Freeman home the problem with that is we have the medical examiner
00:50:20
stating that they believe I'm sorry she believes that Kathy Freeman was killed at 5am right
00:50:29
um so this would make one if that in fact is true I would love to know you know anytime we're doing these cases
00:50:36
there's always that one little tidbit of of knowledge that I think is needed to really hone in and Target and and
00:50:45
Bullseye a suspect right and so they're saying okay so the bit of information in
00:50:50
this one for me is that time of death how strong do they feel about that 5 a.m time time of day right 5 a.m time of
00:50:57
death but they're saying at 4am he's arrested so that puts him in the area yeah he
00:51:03
would have been about 10 or 11 miles away from the Freeman home at 4am when he's arrested he's arrested for like uh
00:51:11
he's intoxicated or high or something like that but he's arrested the other bit of knowledge that would be
00:51:18
interesting to find out is you know what belongings did he have on him at the time that he was arrested did he have a
00:51:25
large sum of money you know did he have hundreds and hundreds of dollars in his pockets when he when he was arrested
00:51:31
right or or was he alone and maybe he just can't you know maybe he's confessing to the crime because he
00:51:40
knows that he was involved somehow but maybe he wasn't alone so maybe you know maybe
00:51:48
the you know maybe they're basing the time of death off of when they think the fire was started
00:51:55
it's a possibility because the first known uh sighting of the fire would be at 5 30 a.m right and if you and if you
00:52:02
back it up and you say okay well uh you know Jeremy Jones and his friend Charlie
00:52:08
go to the house at midnight 1am the murders could take place then Jeremy Jones actually leaves the scene
00:52:18
and Charlie's still at the scene to have the fire start you kind of crossed you crossed into what we were going to get
00:52:25
to next here is regarding a tip that was received this was received um about a year maybe maybe two years ago
00:52:33
um but it was a tip that Laureen Bible had received on her there's a on her web page right yes yeah so she receives a
00:52:42
tip that somebody should look into The Well of this old uh old Charlie Critter house now Critter lives in Kansas
00:52:52
um but because of the state line it's not terribly far from the Freeman home um and
00:53:00
here's the other thing now according to Laureen Charlie and Danny knew each other right
00:53:08
so here's what I'm getting at here and Jeremy Jones states that he knew this Charlie guy that Danny owed money to but
00:53:18
he never says it's Charlie Critter he just says Charlie this guy named Charlie now the according to local newspapers
00:53:27
not only did Charlie Critter know Danny Freeman because they might they they don't in the local papers I couldn't
00:53:34
find any drug connection but according to Laureen there's a drug connection there
00:53:40
the local papers state that they knew one another because a they had worked together at one point and B that Critter
00:53:47
owned several uh cattle that were that lived on the Freeman property so there's another connection to this
00:53:55
this Critter guy well they they they're given this tip to search The Well of of his former home right they searched the
00:54:04
well um they send cameras down deep into the well and they find they they found no
00:54:10
evidence that there there was definitely no bodies in there the only thing I believe they found was some old some old
00:54:15
bucket but there was no other type of uh debris that would lead you to believe that there were any personal belongings
00:54:22
or clothing or anything of that nature again what I was saying though is you know with Jeremy Jones confessing maybe
00:54:28
it's just not implementing his buddy Charlie and I think all this as well well who is
00:54:34
Charlie Charlie's a guy that's currently spending he's got to serve 14 years in prison for second-degree murder he
00:54:41
murdered a woman he's a bad hombre he murdered a woman and uh they found her body in a creek
00:54:49
um and the situation is they don't believe that they couldn't find any evidence of sexual assault
00:54:56
um so maybe he's not the same kind of animal that uh Jeremy Jones is but you're exactly right Captain we have a
00:55:03
situation where it's very likely that this Charlie character that Jeremy Jones says he knows is in fact the same
00:55:10
Charlie Critter that we've been talking about that knew Danny that was rumored that he owed money to one or both of
00:55:16
these people here's what here's what I think happened I think that right so we've given our
00:55:23
theories now I think we got to because we've been kind of beating around it the whole time here uh the I think that the
00:55:30
two of them probably committed this crime together and I think that that's the only way that you could make the
00:55:35
timeline make sense regarding uh Jeremy Jones's involvement well his arrest right because him being arrested at 4am
00:55:44
is that right yeah uh that is what kind of puts the wrinkle on the whole confession and Laureen Bible her belief
00:55:52
is that the the connection between the crimes is in the murderers is is Danny Freeman that somebody came to the
00:56:03
trailer that night looking for Danny for some reason right and this was the result and I'm going to give her the
00:56:09
benefit of the doubt and I'm going to believe what her gut tells her because I can tell from all the research and
00:56:15
reading that I've done that nobody has spent more time on this case case and on this investigation the then Laureen
00:56:21
Bible of course and she knows that she knows the players involved well she knows the characters and she knows the
00:56:28
landscape she she knows everything and on top of that her motive for getting answers is stronger than anybody because
00:56:36
of the loss of her daughter and I I think that two people or more had to commit this crime because of one simple
00:56:43
fact okay well let's make it two simple facts but they're pretty much the same thing okay
00:56:48
we know we've described Danny Freeman very well to everybody it's easy to say that he has a temper
00:56:55
there's no reason to think that if he was confronted or put in a situation that he didn't want to be in that he
00:57:02
would not fight back he this this is a guy that would fight back 100 percent and second of all is rumored to have a
00:57:09
stockpile of guns and firearms on his property you do not I don't care how much meth you do I don't care how dumb
00:57:18
you are or how evil you are you do not approach a man or his property that is of that character and has that amount of
00:57:27
weapons by yourself well you're and the reason why they would be approaching him
00:57:31
is to get money to get money or to right so when you're going to go collect money
00:57:36
from somebody you don't show up empty-handed right right and I think what happened here I think that we have
00:57:43
two terrible individuals we have Critter and we have his buddy Jeremy Jones Critter and it's not a stretch to
00:57:50
believe that they those two knew each other that they went to that home together to confront Jeremy or sorry
00:57:57
Danny about money uh well or or he's making drugs like I said or he's making drugs yeah most likely could have went
00:58:06
there to collect money or just straight up to rob the guy right and they get in this scuffle they get in this situation
00:58:11
and then we have Jeremy Jones look because it could be as simple as uh you know I'm out you know creepy Critter is
00:58:20
over there and he's has his cattle and Danny just opens up the freezer and get some ice for a beer or something
00:58:29
oh what's that in the freezer oh my daughter's saving up for you know or they knew there was money on
00:58:36
the property right right you know it was also believed that Danny had some kind of collection that was full of valuables
00:58:41
maybe they went there to collect that or or there was just a disagreement you never know but giving the character of
00:58:47
these two guys of Critter and Jones I I and it to me I I'm with you on the fact that it doesn't seem like it's just
00:58:56
a lone individual that it would more likely be to individuals but I still feel like there's some validity to the
00:59:04
the jailhouse snitches and that and like I said because the in one of the issues here is
00:59:13
because Jeremy Jones is a meth head his story it makes so much sense but there's so
00:59:20
many gaps and so many kind of just dark spots that that if he could remember those or if he would have stated those
00:59:30
and I think maybe some of that some of the stuff he's not stating correctly is because he doesn't want to implement uh
00:59:38
Charles and probably the reason why is because he knows that if he ever got out or if
00:59:43
he ever was confronted with this individual again he could get killed by him well you know and
00:59:48
these two guys are very in some ways very different from one another uh Critter has never confessed to to the
00:59:55
murder that he has been convicted of um he's not you know talking about it he actually claims that he was framed
01:00:03
um Jones as we know he he from time to time will sing like a bird and tell you you know every confession that he can
01:00:10
think of uh Jones did know it's kind of a douchey bird but yeah Jones did know what type of gun they were killed with
01:00:18
uh he also knew what accelerant was used to set the fire so that's all I need we have evidence
01:00:25
there and the reason why I think it was the two of them is that I here's the thing a little insight here Jeremy Jones
01:00:33
you know we talked about this when we covered Bundy a little bit and we talked about it a little bit with the yogurt
01:00:37
shop murders Jeremy Jones is a serial rapist okay he's a Serial sex offender in every sense of the word he's somebody
01:00:45
that's been convicted of such crimes before he started murdering sometimes we see with these serial killers that
01:00:53
cannot control themselves because that's the type of monster that they are that they graduate from from rape to murder
01:01:00
and I think that's what we have here with Jeremy Jones I think that if he were there if he were there that night
01:01:06
there is no way he could have walked away from that trailer without abducting those girls that that's the sick
01:01:13
individual that he is that's his addiction more so than methamphetamine more so than the drugs and the alcohol
01:01:20
that is his number one drug of choice is is rape and I think that that we have a
01:01:26
situation where they abducted these girls and they were able to get away with it because there was two of them
01:01:31
and Jeremy Jones fits into the timeline because he was not involved after the hours of 4 am right and like I said I
01:01:39
mean I when you can tell me what gun they used and you can tell me what accelerant they
01:01:45
used that's believable the other thing too is there's some evidence about cars being
01:01:51
in the area that night yeah there there were two vehicles that were spotted near
01:01:55
the Freeman home again a remote area there might not be any reason for cars to be in that area uh too one was a dark
01:02:04
uh colored vehicle um and it was a very vague description given it was a dark colored sedan uh the
01:02:13
other vehicle that was spotted between this was between five and six a.m that morning
01:02:18
um the other vehicle would have been a dark colored truck um it's the way that I've heard this
01:02:24
reported is that these are two separate sightings which would mean to me that these vehicles weren't seen together
01:02:32
um but what that makes me wonder furthermore is we have this arrest record of Jeremy Jones what were his
01:02:40
possessions was he in a dark-colored sedan or or a dark colored truck um I know he would have been arrested at
01:02:47
4 AM and these sightings were later did he have any did he have a large amount of money on him you know these are these
01:02:53
are the questions that that I would like to know the strange thing here though Captain is that law enforcement they do
01:03:00
not report the sightings of these vehicles to the public until like 10 or 11 years after the crime they're
01:03:07
basically stating this is some information that we got right after the crime took place right we held on to it
01:03:15
because they were very vague descriptions of vehicles and now we're going to release this
01:03:20
information because we want to know if anybody saw the same thing or has any idea what if this has anything to do
01:03:26
with the crime at all why but I also think that we're seeing law enforcement get a lot smarter and
01:03:31
you know given information to the public earlier now yeah and I think the more they do that the more they're willing to
01:03:39
say hey we have this piece of evidence and maybe somebody would know something when this case is you know hot when the
01:03:46
case is uh you know public the public is concerned about the case you're going to
01:03:53
get more answers now jumping back to the first theory that we discussed that the
01:03:57
the girls had perpetrated these murders um you know and I just want to touch on this because I don't want anybody to to
01:04:05
tell us we missed something here but there were sightings of these girls after the fact right
01:04:11
um law enforcement has dismissed most of these sightings for the simple fact that
01:04:17
they were receiving sightings of the girls being in different states on the same day meaning that Ashley could have
01:04:24
been spotted on one side of the country on Wednesday and she was spotted on the other side of the country on that same
01:04:31
Wednesday right um so they you know when you when you post these pictures and you send them
01:04:37
out people tend to see things maybe that's why they held back the information on these vehicles that they
01:04:43
didn't want to get overloaded with unnecessary tips that might lead them in the wrong Direction yeah and like I said
01:04:49
from the beginning the minute I saw Ashley's picture I thought well that's my middle school girlfriend I mean it
01:04:57
looks exactly like her um so I don't know I think sometimes when people hear about missing people they
01:05:06
kind of see what they want to see well 16 years after the crime took place we have local law enforcement calling for
01:05:15
tips they're asking the public to put in their two cents and tell us what you saw
01:05:19
tell us what you've heard tell us what you know the thing that's disconcerting about
01:05:24
this this plea for help from local law enforcement to me is is the fact that within this request for information the
01:05:34
District Attorney's Office states that they are encouraging anyone that has called in tips in the last 16 years and
01:05:42
if you are wondering if the information has been followed up on please contact your local law enforcement again
01:05:49
you know so kind of I think I think they're wondering what tips may have fallen through the cracks throughout the
01:05:55
years they're letting the public know that they have new people and all of the sheriff's offices all of the District
01:06:03
Attorney's offices there's new eyes new Minds new people manning these desks and
01:06:09
Manning the the offices please submit these tips to these new people in case this stuff fell through the cracks so we
01:06:16
can piece this together one yeah that's what they're saying that's the importance of what they're saying is and
01:06:24
that's what and what makes it so odd is please report whatever you reported 16 years ago again yeah and the conclusion
01:06:32
of this story I mean we kind of believe Jeremy Jones's confession and if they can find some more links maybe there'd
01:06:40
be some closure for the family or if you could get him to turn on Critter or Critter to turn on Jones would be
01:06:47
another way to go with it I I think they're going to have to find the bodies of the girls at this point to believe
01:06:53
any confessions that come out I think that's the only way that that you'll you'll be able and again like I said the
01:07:00
problem with Jones is you know he's a drug addict so uh and Ashley Freeman was actually declared legally dead by her
01:07:10
family October 18 2010. um as we had said earlier the Bible family remains at on the front line of
01:07:19
this investigation um Laureen Bible and her husband Jay Bible are really uh the driving force
01:07:27
behind the remaining investigation yeah and if you have any tips or any any information or just want to help out you
01:07:34
can check out their Facebook page it's fine Laura Bible and that's Laura l a u r i a yeah yeah
01:07:44
uh and I want to give a quick uh a statement that uh Laureen Bible had stated she says that they will never
01:07:51
declare Laura legally dead um she states that they have come to the conclusion that Laura was in the wrong
01:07:58
place at the wrong time they still feel that she is still alive but whether she is alive or dead they
01:08:05
want to know what happened and our hearts go out to them do we have a recommended reading for this week uh yes
01:08:11
it's called the dreams of ADA by Robert Mayer this book was recommended to me by
01:08:17
a listener and now I'm recommending it to all of you this is especially for fans of making a murderer the dreams of
01:08:24
ADA is is the true bewildering story of a young woman's disappearance the nightmare of a small town obsessed with
01:08:32
delivering Justice and the bizarre dream of a poor uneducated man accused of murder John Grisham says that this is a
01:08:40
riveting true story of a brutal murder in a small town in the tragic errors made in the pursuit of justice so check
01:08:48
out the dreams of ADA by Robert Mayer and you can do that by going to truecrimegarage.com click on the
01:08:53
recommended page and you will see a big stack of wonderful books to choose from uh by using our Amazon
01:09:00
thank you to everybody for joining us in the garage this week thank you for telling a friend and thank you for the
01:09:05
five star reviews and check out our awesome sponsors can't thank you enough for listening hope we made your week
01:09:11
better I know you made our week better so until next week be good be kind and don't litter
01:09:17
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