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amazon.com [Music] [Music] AdFree [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who knows that podcasting is a battle that is one in
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the trenches here is the captain podcasting will make your life go into the trenches it's good to be seeing and
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good to see you thanks for listening thanks for ton of [Music] friends we are still sipping on some
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brewing Midwest IPA it's hoppy piny very clean tasting with a hint of citrus ABV
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7% garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five and cheers to our friends for filling up the old
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your jib going out to Jamie Gorton from Fort Greg Adams Virginia everyone we mentioned they went to our website
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garage.com and sign up on our mailing list and Colonel that's enough of the business all right everybody gather
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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime when we left off yesterday Captain
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we were talking about a situation where we have 21-year-old Johnny Clark and he's
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staying at his 20-year-old girlfriend's home Lisa St the home technically belongs to Lisa's parents who are away
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on a vacation so not only are they staying there but as everyone States they're also housesitting while the
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stobs are gone we left off at the point on our timeline where Johnny's parents have been notified by a woman named
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Tiffany Williams Tiffany Williams is 24 years old and she is an air quotes friend of Johnny's and Lisa and she
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through another person alerted Johnny's parents of a couple of situations that occurred that night one that she was on
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the phone with Johnny Clark at about 10:41 that night and that she had heard what sounded to be a disturbance that
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Johnny sounded like he was interacting with somebody didn't know what was going on and it might be a situation she is
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then saying that after about 2 hours she decides to drive out to the st's home and check on her friends Johnny and Lisa
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and by getting no response at the door and getting no response on their cell phones she now has alerted Johnny's
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family that she's concerned and she thinks that something is wrong where we left off yesterday Johnny's parents are
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at the location they're on scene police have been called twice M Johnny's mother
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called police 911 twice and they sent out Luke Lucas County Sheriff's Office on two occasions back to back Lucas
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County observes the situation takes a look at the house they knock on the door they shine their
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flashlights they see no probable cause and they have no probable cause to enter the home nobody present after receiving
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those calls can give Authority for the authorities to go into the home now one thing that's very interesting here is
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that before the police leave the the scene the Sheriff's Office deputies leave the scene for what is now a second
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time one of the officers pulls Johnny's Father John to the side and says look man not being a cop here father to
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father I can't tell you to do anything but if this were my son and he was staying at his girlfriend's home and
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I'm arriving to this scene I would wait for the police to leave and I would bust into the house to
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see what's going on now the officer is saying this and and the reason why I think that this is
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important to note here is some people have said well I don't understand why the police wouldn't just go in they
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can't just bust into a home without probable cause it's called the law now the other thing too is they cannot just
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tell Johnny's parents yeah break a window and go in they they cannot witness a crime they cannot encourage a
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crime crime to take place they cannot witness a crime and then do nothing about it so this guy is saying man to
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man father to father and here's why I believe that this Officer says this when they all arrive on the scene here's what
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we got going on Captain yeah the stobs the parents Lisa's parents who are gone they they own three vehicles okay
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two of those vehicles are in the driveway of this home nobody's answering the door Johnny's Father John is is
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quite the strong guy he's a bit of a bodybuilder good siiz man so when the police are on the scene he actually
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physically is able to lift up the garage door just enough that one of the cops gets his head down there looks in and
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inside the garage they see the other stob vehicle along with Lisa st's car inside the garage as well Johnny does
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not have his own vehicle at this time time so what's weird is the two youngsters Johnny and Lisa who are
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staying there and house sitting all their means of transportation are there present at the home there's no vehicles
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missing from the home and then you compound that with Tiffany Williams saying earlier at 10:41 p.m. I'm on the
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phone with Johnny and he's saying what are you doing bro who are you bro as if that there's some kind of commotion at
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the house and I'm very thankful that this officer encouraged the Clarks to do something to
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take matters into their own hand so what the Clarks do they leave when the cops leave when the sheriff's department
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leaves they follow them out of the neighborhood and then the police go one way and the Clarks go another way they
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drive around for a bit just long enough to make sure that the sheriff's department is gone from the property and
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then they come back the Clarks just don't bust bust in break a window bust into the house they have a member of
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their family that is there that is a service member in our in our military serving this great country who says look
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I either I need to leave before you bust into the house because I don't I can't afford to get into trouble I have a rank
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and a job and everything let's let's give us reason to bust into the house so they're going
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around and they're looking in the windows they can't see anything because all of the blinds are closed now around
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the back side of the home you know those windows Captain where you have the uh the arc at the top so it's not your
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standard rectangle or square window it is on the bottom but at the top there's a there's a glass Arc a window
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pane this portion of this window in the back of the home there's no blinds up there often
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there is not when you have that kind of decorative window but there are blinds on the lower
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portion of it so one cannot see into the home this is a window that goes to the kitchen so what they decide because
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there's several of the Clark Clan there if you will they decide to boost one of the lighter individuals up remember John
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Clark is quite the strong man he's going to lift up one of the other family members who now can look into the home
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through that window pane without the blind on top or without any cover this person sees two individuals lying on the
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floor inside with bags on their heads and they appear to be bound now seeing that witnessing
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that will now ignite a new fire and that is a third 911 call from Johnny mom m to emergency
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services oh you need to get the police out to Long Acre Lane my son is in the basement tied up of this house I just
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saw him through the window I the police out here earlier and did absolutely nothing both cell phones are on the
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ground and we can see the people him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement okay all right we'll get them
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out there get them CS out here I told them earlier we need to calm down we'll get them out there but yelling at me is
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unconscious they're unconscious ma'am oh okay they said they're unconscious yes okay all right cellon on their we're
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cell phones on their body pants he only has pants on and their hands are tied okay all right we
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get him out there ma'am oh my God I need you to calm down we'll get him out there
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okay oh my God please hurry all right we will Long Acre okay Long Acre Lane I have the address we'll get them out
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there goodby seems so ridiculous that these dispatchers are so concerned about somebody staying calm or not raising
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their voices at at them but uh this obviously will give police probable cause to enter the the property which
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they're not going to need because what happens here is when you hear M on the phone with the
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dispatcher and you hear that she's kind of you know they're tied up they're unconscious cell phones on their
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bodies he's only got pants on the pants are tied right the reason why she's saying it and delivering it that way to
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the dispatchers is because she's not seen any of this with their own eyes remember they had to lift a family
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member or some other person that was there up into the air hoist them up to see inside of the home she is relaying
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what is being told it that scene is being described to her and then she's immediately describing it to Emergency
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Services on the phone right so that that will explain her kind of odd delivery because this is news to her as she's
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telling Emergency Services meanwhile while she's on the phone trying to get the police back out there and ambulance
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now John after he hears what's going on inside the house he Sprints around to the front of the home and with a single
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kick damn near Kicks Down the front door of this house he runs inside to the kitchen area now remember we hear M
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saying that they're in the basement she she doesn't know exactly what room that they're looking into they've never the
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the Clarks Johnny's parents have never been inside this home before and so John the father runs in he
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finds two person's bodies lying in the kitchen and he rips the bag instinctively and rightfully so rips the
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bag off of one of the individuals and unfortunately it is his son who is still unconscious
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unresponsive and then he rips the bag off of what would be clear to him is Lisa's head right and gets the same
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result and he then says that he he went to go outside that he needed to get out of
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there he gets out he goes outside and on his way out or once he's outside right now things are moving very quickly and
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the parents are are completely in shock so their statements it's a little unclear how these things panned out or
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played out and it's not really important in my opinion but what we do know is at
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some point he he runs outside and he says he just loses his mind he doesn't he doesn't even know what reality is for
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a while and he says that at some point either on his way out of the home or on or once outside of the home he tells his
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wife what it is that he witnessed maybe he says something like Johnny's gone or Johnny's dead to which she then faints
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right so that's what takes place shortly like immediately after this 911 call and
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so what we have at this scene is we have we now know it's Johnny we know it's Lisa it seems like they were
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bound and then there were plastic bags were placed over their heads but do we have anybody seeing do we see any type
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of blood or what else are we seeing at this scene well we'll go through we'll go
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through the evidence and through the what they were able to witness at the crime scene
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but one thing we need to point out here too is that did we play the second call what was that no so after M's
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call Tiffany Williams who's still at the scene she then calls and makes a very brief call to 911 and she's stating very
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much of the same that was just stated by M Clark right so she has a very brief conversation with the dispatcher and at
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this point the the police emergency services are already in route and it's surprising that uh Tiffany hasn't left
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at this point because at some point there's kind of accusations coming her way way as far as like why did it take
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you so long to react to them not answering their phones and then you know they're at the crime they're at the
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scene trying to figure out what's going on and then you have Johnny's mom saying
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hey are you involved in this did you set my son up with something and just so everybody can
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follow along with our timeline here the report I have Captain states that that third and final 911 call from M comes in
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at approximately 350 a.m. so obviously the whole family is in State of Shock it's
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hysteria then law enforcement comes back onto the scene and obviously now they're
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able to enter the property yeah and we've reviewed a lot of cases where Emergency Services have have told us
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that if if they can get to a scene and someone has for a lack of better term expired 15 20 30 minutes
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prior to their arrival that they've they've witnessed and been a part of situations where they are able to
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actually save that person's life bring them back and I'm including that because it's important to our timeline to narrow
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down the time of death for our victims here now what we have here Captain is John
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gains as we said John gains entry to the home he discovers Lisa and John that are
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they're both bound at the hands and neck with plastic bags over their heads he instinctively rips the bag off of his
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son's head to expose his face but gets no response John then moves to Lisa and does the same only to get the same sad
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outcome she too is not responding deputies from the Lucas County Sheriff's Office respond to the scene yet again
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this time along with firemen short shortly behind them who will perform life-saving efforts but tragically this
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is to no avail the two youngsters have been out for far too long and they are officially gone at this point in our
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timeline sources report that when the bodies were discovered that Johnny's head was facing
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west with his hands and feet bound with black duct tape and the same black duct tape was used to seal the bag at his
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neck Lisa was found Facing East her hands were bound behind her back with duct tape with the same similar bag as
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uh what was found on Johnny and the same duct tape tightly wrapped around her neck as well now one difference between
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the two victims here is her legs were not bound so when you hear in the 911 call from M saying he's only wearing
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pants and the pants are tied what she's trying to say is that his legs are bound like they use the
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tape to bind up his him at the ankles right and so he's wearing sweatpants so this black duct tape would have been
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obvious to them even from outside looking from perched above that that Arc pane window window pane and and Lisa is
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not bound at the legs now she did say that you know he's only wearing pants well they have an obstructed View and
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the crime scene the reason why there's an obstructed view is because they're found in the kitchen and from their
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Vantage Point some items that will be in the way will be the kitchen table as well as some of the table the table and
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chairs okay so what they cannot see is actually both both of them are fully clothed both of the victims are fully
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clothed however the their shirts are bunched up toward the top of their bodies and so it appeared that he has no
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shirt on from looking outside looking in now as said both their shirts appear to
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have ridden up to expose their stomachs but investigators noted that this did not seem to be in any way or any form of
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sexual assault or any type of sexual way but rather because as it would appear to
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investigators both victims were moved after having been bound so they were dragged and the
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victim's shirts then bunched up to their chest right as a likely result of someone or very likely especially in
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Johnny's case some ones dragg in the victims across the floor to Stage them or place
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them in the kitchen and I say some ones because look I get it you're dragging someone and that that takes away some of
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the weight here but Johnny's 5 foot1 205 pounds so he's not a small boy um it probably I would I would wager a
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Franklin Captain it took two to move him so I think we're looking for at minimum two perpetrators in this
00:21:26
horrific horrific crime ran like you said we don't have evidence of sexual assault but do we we were told earlier
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that the house looked like it was rans sacked do we have evidence that the mo the motive might might have
00:21:43
been a burglary here you're spot on here Captain because still to this day this this horrible
00:21:53
crime takes place very early 2011 we're sitting here in the garage 2023 and it's unclear to this day what
00:22:05
exactly the motive was now as we get through this I think that our listeners will see and maybe share
00:22:15
the same opinion that we have that there might be more than one motive at play here now especially if we are to
00:22:22
consider that we may have more than one perpetrator so some more details from the crime scene an empty wallet is
00:22:30
placed on Johnny's bare stomach this would turn out to be his wallet some have suggested that the wallet left in
00:22:37
this manner by the killer was as if to send a message both victims displayed signs of peia on their faces it was very
00:22:47
clear to Lucas County Sheriff's investigators that a struggle had taken place now listen to this level of damage
00:22:53
inside here Captain level of damage inside the stol per the police reports there was broken drywall a clock torn
00:23:03
off the wall a plant knocked over and then there were many many to say many items were scattered about is to put it
00:23:11
very conservatively right it also became increasingly clear to authorities that the
00:23:17
garage was the most likely must have been the point of access for the Intruder or Intruders to
00:23:25
get inside of the home and here's why why there was damage to the interior service door or as long time listeners
00:23:34
of this show know that I like to call it the man door meaning this is the door that the people walk through not the
00:23:40
door that the cars go through right so there there's signs of forcible entry into the home and they're getting that
00:23:49
from the man door from garage to the inside of the home they're not getting that from the garage door
00:23:59
the garage was closed when police first arrived on the scene the garage was closed when Johnny's fam's on the scene
00:24:07
remember dad had to lift up the garage door the car door so that the deputy could look
00:24:14
inside and see that there were two more cars inside the garage so this is indicative that whoever decided to bust
00:24:26
into the home or intrude into the home the garage door was either open for them to receive them or was already open
00:24:37
when they approached the home they only had to bust into the man door and they were so kind enough to
00:24:45
close the garage door before leaving the [Music] property [Music] this show is sponsored by better help
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toay all right cheers mates cheers to you colonel onward and upward yeah thank you Captain now this is very likely
00:28:02
protocol for a double homicide in most jurisdictions in the state of Ohio I'm not certain about this jurisdiction in
00:28:09
particular so this is either protocol or simply the investigators realizing that
00:28:14
they need additional expertise for this case and this crime scene that appears to have a lot going on Lucas County
00:28:24
Sheriff's Office detectives they rather quickly contact ATT the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and
00:28:31
investigation or BCI for short for their assistance in this case so now we have BCI there to assist in processing this
00:28:41
crime scene as observed by the Lucas County Sheriff's Office when BCI had arrived we we get special agent
00:28:50
supervisor Ed beer stad who notices that the crime scene does not only show signs of force or
00:28:57
forceable entry signs of obvious struggle but now this officer is saying we need to include that this
00:29:08
house appears to have been ransacked and I mean let's say very ransacked because I've seen the pictures very
00:29:15
ransacked if we were to try to discuss levels of ransacking yeah we'll try to post as
00:29:21
many photos about this case and the people involved D obviously and and those are
00:29:30
you can always find those on our social media so we have to put it short and sweet we have cabinets that have been
00:29:38
opened drawers pulled out as if as if someone's searching for something now in the master bedroom the mattress was
00:29:45
pulled completely off of the box spring uh as if to reveal anything potentially hidden under the mattress in the walk-in
00:29:53
closet we have clothing that is you you know torn from the hangers and thrown all over the floor but but question for
00:30:02
you because sometimes when we have uh house that quote unquote looks ransacked is it staged to look that way
00:30:12
to to throw law enforcement off of what the possible motive of this crime would be yeah and we have a a dresser that's
00:30:20
overturned a panel leading to the attic spaces is open and as said there's damage to the drywall
00:30:28
uh significant damage in areas of the home to the drywall and this is one could be both clear sign of a struggle
00:30:36
usually it is but we usually cover cases where there's not this level of rans sacking going on inside the home and so
00:30:45
I want to point out something here too that the destruction to some of the drywall could be happen stance from a
00:30:52
struggle look Johnny was a tough kid if with with these Intruders he's not going to just allow them to just walk
00:31:03
into the home he's going to put up a fight so there's our struggle but on top of that
00:31:11
with all this rans sacking keep in mind some of this damage to the drywall may be part more part of the rans
00:31:18
sacking than just that struggle it also makes you wonder because like you said we have we have two victims so do we
00:31:25
have two perpet Traders or do we have even more than two we also find out that Lisa's purse had been emptied and
00:31:33
Johnny's wallet was empty as well strangely however there was jewelry that was in plain
00:31:39
sight and some have stated that this was overlooked but I I don't think that it was
00:31:45
overlooked because it one description we get is that a jewelry box was opened to
00:31:50
expose the jewelry and for whatever reason they decided not to take anything that they saw there we ALS also end up
00:31:58
learning that something that was in the home prior to the homicides and remain there
00:32:06
afterward was six envelopes containing foreign currency right so whoever is responsible they take Lisa's money
00:32:20
Johnny's money if he had any but they pass up the jewelry they pass up other valuables inside the home
00:32:29
TVs computers things of that nature and they pass up the foreign currency as well
00:32:37
were they able to talk to Lisa's parents and was there any idea of uh maybe a special item that these individuals
00:32:46
might have known that they had that they were looking for because also like you can't
00:32:52
discount uh a robbery if there are things missing but like for example you see foreign
00:32:59
currency a criminal might go what am I going to do with that I'm I'm going to have to try to find a way to exch
00:33:07
exchange that into our currency MH or they see jewelry what am I going to do with that right where's the value there
00:33:16
for me right and and look you can sell those items but now involving another person
00:33:26
you're putting yourself at a higher risk level of getting caught getting apprehended and so when I see a scene
00:33:35
like this it's confusing though right it's it's confusing and you're right to point out it was it made to be
00:33:42
confusing was there staging here you know it's not uncommon husband kills wife or wife kills husband out in their
00:33:51
home and they ransack the place or or make it look to be ransacked now what's what's interesting though is
00:34:00
detectives and cops are pretty good at seeing a scene and knowing when somebody is doing something just to do it or when
00:34:10
somebody's doing something that they've done before you know they can look at a scene
00:34:16
at times and go you know what this looks like whoever was air quotes ransacking the house didn't really know what they
00:34:23
were doing almost like they were doing it perfect to confuse the scene right that doesn't seem to be the cas
00:34:32
here we never get any investigators saying like we think that this was a staged scene this place looked like you you let
00:34:40
loose a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up yeah but also because of things that you
00:34:49
mentioned like the mattress being turned over or the I think you were saying like
00:34:54
the attic entrance mhm to me that goes again was there something that these people thought was
00:35:04
at this property that they were trying to find and wouldn't we know this information from Lisa's parents every
00:35:11
closet that had a door in that home the door was found open as if somebody went through the home looking in every nook
00:35:18
and cranny for something and this is where things start to get really weird because the first people that
00:35:27
you're going to talk to are family and friends of the two victims and one thing that they start to find within some of
00:35:34
those circles is this thought or some kind of rumor that there was potentially a safe in the home
00:35:44
containing large amounts of cash right now we have the stobs who thankfully can tell us a
00:35:56
couple things and Captain you know it what's one of my favorite things to discuss in these cases because it is
00:36:02
often most times the most important detail of these crime scenes transference of
00:36:10
evidence the Intruder the killer the perpetrator will almost always leave something at the crime scene knowingly
00:36:17
or unknowingly that could lead you back to him or her and almost always will take something with them knowingly or
00:36:27
unknowingly that you can link perpetrator to Crime so in this situation the stobs tell us a couple
00:36:34
things one we do not own a safe two we don't keep large amounts of cash in our home in fact they tell the police the
00:36:45
only money that would have been in the home aside from some change jars would have been $40 or $45 that
00:36:53
they left for Johnny and Lisa to order pizza one night or two nights that's the only money that they said that they had
00:37:04
in the home now transfer of evidence goes the other way too so what do we have missing from
00:37:11
the scene we have that $445 if if Johnny and Lisa didn't spend it prior right we have Lisa's money okay
00:37:21
keep in mind what did she work that night we know she worked as a server at the restaurant that night us usually
00:37:26
they walk away cash in hand and so we can assume we can make the logical assumption that whatever
00:37:34
money she took home with her from her work that night was taken and then we know Johnny's wallet was found empty so
00:37:41
whatever money he may have had that was gone that was gone as well but there's a possibility if the if law
00:37:51
enforcement is saying hey it looks like these guys were looking for possibly a safe that it's possible that they're at
00:38:02
the wrong residence oh it's most certainly possible I mean that when I hear this
00:38:07
thought that there's a safe in the home and it could be a huge mistake you know you instantly think of
00:38:16
In Cold Blood who was at the Clutter family that's killed because these two criminals in while they're in prison
00:38:25
they hear this bad rumor that that the family had a a safe with $10,000 cash in it decades and decades ago when $10,000
00:38:34
was a whole heck of a lot of money much more than it is today and they go in they kill the whole
00:38:39
family no safe right we covered the Cheshire murders now those two horrible monsters
00:38:50
subhumans they claimed that they believe because it was a rich wealthy neighborhood that they were they
00:38:57
believed that they would find a lot of money inside the home and that maybe even a safe and a lot of valuables they
00:39:03
don't find that people don't live that way today most people walk around with cards right
00:39:10
plastic and and I said it I made my point very clear on the Cheshire murders when we covered I believe that Carmen
00:39:18
sesi and those perpetrators I think that that that rape and murder was as much if
00:39:25
not more a driving factor to them than the potential of finding large sums of money well no and and also sometimes
00:39:32
people are house poor you know where they they have a big house and all their finances Go to paying for that house
00:39:42
they don't have extras unfortunately I'm garage poor me too but your garage is a
00:39:48
little bigger than mine we got a couple of other things going on at the scene though captain that we need to get to we
00:39:53
have two knives that are missing from the the block that would be in the kitchen right and
00:40:00
we know that duct tape was found on our victims Lisa's parents tell police we didn't have any black duct tape in our
00:40:09
home and so now we know that the killers did bring something with them right and
00:40:17
Beyond the money just the cash they took something with them as well now the bags
00:40:23
a little more difficult I think these are pretty common bags bags and I believe that the stobs said that they
00:40:30
were of the belief that the bags would have been found in either in the garage or somewhere in their
00:40:36
home so now we got to deal with this duct tape and that's really interesting here
00:40:44
so what we have let's talk about these items did not have any duct tape present at the home according to the stops so it
00:40:52
must have been brought with them to the scene now some have said that this may May imply
00:40:58
premeditation yes of course yeah but premeditation of what murder robbery torture I think it's too early in our
00:41:07
investigation to conclude premeditation of what now one of the investigators collects a Newport cigarette butt found
00:41:15
in the hallway by the door to the garage that lead the man door leading to the garage nobody in the family is a smoker
00:41:23
nobody in the family is a smoker and then on top of that yeah according to Tiffany Williams they were going to come
00:41:30
over and hang out at the house and and you know not really a party according to Tiffany Williams four people just
00:41:35
hanging out at the house there weren the stobs had a strict rule against that but
00:41:40
they also had a strict rule against smoking in the home nobody was permitted to smoke in the home and as we just
00:41:47
covered there's no smoker that lives there so this Newport cigarette butt is going to become just as important as the
00:41:55
duct tape that was found on our our victims well because like you said there's so much rans sacking that you
00:42:01
have to now you're going to be testing for fingerprints and you're going to be testing for DNA but some
00:42:10
evidence that we're going to have to go through it you know as far as law enforcement is going to have to go
00:42:15
through at the scene is what happened to these two victims we know that they were
00:42:20
bound and we know that there was bags placed on their head we know they're dead but how did they
00:42:27
die yeah so the Bia is going to be one of the telltale signs of what may have happened to them and I say may have
00:42:37
happened to them because when once we get the medical examiner report it's a little
00:42:42
inconclusive so it's both deaths ruled a homicide no doubt about that what becomes a
00:42:50
problem and not a major one but something that is undetermined is that they can could not tell if they
00:43:00
died from xixia from the bag being placed over their heads or from the tightness of the duct tape
00:43:09
around their necks so maybe it may have been a combination of both they to put it short and and not sweet at all they
00:43:16
died of lack lack of oxygen both of them and one thing that is unique about this case and I think
00:43:28
it's usually important not always but I I think here given the crime scene and what we're seeing at the crime scene and
00:43:35
some things that we've hinted on already here Captain is there was some concern to try to determine who died
00:43:43
first and they were not able to conclusively figure that part out now what the crime here's what the crime
00:43:52
scene is telling the experts that some kind of struggle with Johnny went down either outside just inside of or at
00:44:05
that man door right the service door leading from the garage to the home so signs of a struggle there and they they
00:44:13
believe that struggle took place between Johnny and The Intruders That's How The
00:44:17
Intruders gained entry into the home now unfortunately no look none of these cases are easy to talk about none of the
00:44:26
details are easy to talk about but what the crime scene indicators are telling the investigators is that when this is
00:44:34
happening when the commotion is heard by Lisa she tries to run and hide so she runs upstairs to the upper
00:44:45
level to her room closes and locks the door behind her and it's believed that she attempted to hide underneath her bed
00:44:56
The Intruders go up the stairs kick in her door and drag her from out underneath of
00:45:04
that bed unfortunately a couple of things could have happened differently that that may
00:45:12
have saved at least Lisa had she fled out a another exterior door rather than flee to her her room
00:45:23
yeah um there was a fire Escape upstairs that she could have potentially gone out
00:45:29
of and her cell phone unfortunately was found was believed to be in another part
00:45:35
of the home so she flees up to her room with no chance of calling anybody for help while she's in there
00:45:43
now look we this case sucks I don't mean to scare anybody but we do get these false senses of security right like we
00:45:51
we close our bedroom doors at night because we're told as children that if there were to be a fire that you can you
00:45:56
can check the touch the door knob and see if it's hot it will prevent smoke from coming large amounts of smoke from
00:46:03
coming into your room lock the lock the door so that you have one more barrier between you and a an and an intruder
00:46:10
into your home those doors those bed our bedroom doors they're not strong they're
00:46:16
rarely are they even solid doors they're usually Hollow doors speak for yourself
00:46:20
mine are solid doors in most cases Captain they are Hollow doors that are easily
00:46:26
easy to kick in number one cardb exactly or Ian I've seen a I've seen people punch right through them for forget
00:46:34
about kicking through one or using your body to throw into the door she did she went into flight
00:46:43
mode she's 20 years old man she's a little kid she's a kid she she did what a kid would do you see you see something
00:46:51
that you don't understand that scares the hell out of you and she she attempted to run and hide from it yeah
00:46:58
there's a if I'm law enforcement the the call that the friend hears Johnny say bro what are you doing to me that points
00:47:08
to one individual but we we again we don't know did he see one individual and then the next individual made themselves
00:47:15
known after that after the disconnection of that call but because there's two victims and like you said I mean
00:47:24
Johnny's not a small guy you have to move that individual the amount of rans sacking in the house this again it
00:47:32
points to at least two mhm you know I I don't think if you're law enforcement you can rule out the possibility that
00:47:39
there's even more than that uh because you have to then bound the these individuals and that
00:47:48
would be very difficult and we don't have any evidence if the Intruder had a gun or not
00:47:58
so again sometimes you can control multiple victims by yourself if you use a gun or you use a
00:48:07
weapon or there's some other threat but in this case it just seems like it's brute
00:48:16
force is what was used to control these and you're ex you're exactly right that you don't have any proof that that the
00:48:23
Intruder Intruders did not have a fire arm but what you do have is you have proof you have things suggestive at the
00:48:31
crime scene that they did not right they they did not use a firearm to kill the victims there's no bullets that are
00:48:37
found there's no bullet holes that are found there's no loud gunshots that are heard by anybody in the neighborhood and
00:48:44
then you have these clear and obvious signs of a struggle one at that man door which is Johnny fighting off whoever's
00:48:50
coming in and also somebody busting through Lisa's bedroom door and dragging her down the stairs and so th those
00:49:00
struggles are indicative that one you're not able to control them with the firearm you have to use as you said
00:49:06
brute force and then on top of that the premeditation right we don't know what it is premeditative of but binding the
00:49:15
the knowledge of going of knowing in advance you know what we should probably bring some duct tape with us because
00:49:22
we're probably going to have to bind one or two of these indviduals at some point
00:49:27
well I bet and I would bet money that they if they brought the duct tape that they brought the bags with them as well
00:49:32
one thing that that's I think that's fair to say that but keep in mind we have the stob
00:49:39
saying they believe the the bags came from somewhere in the home and they would know better than us but here's the
00:49:46
thing Captain one thing that that is going on immediately early on in this investigation and one thing that police
00:49:54
will continue to struggle with throughout the course of this investigation is the Tiffany Williams telling them that
00:50:04
Johnny's saying bro what are you doing bro who the hell are you and they are trying to decipher what
00:50:11
they are hearing secondhand through Tiffany Williams does anything that that Johnny
00:50:17
is saying in that moment does that tell them that he can that he knows who this person is or knows the people or one of
00:50:25
the people that are attempting to invade the home or does he not know them and Tiffany Williams and law enforcement
00:50:36
will have changing and differing opinions at times in this investigation about that matter but the other thing we
00:50:44
also need to consider again unfortunately Johnny's not here to tell us his side of that
00:50:53
conversation of that short phone call that took place at 10:41 p.m. that night we only have Tiffany Williams to tell us
00:51:01
what she says that Johnny said on the phone [Music] right so much more to get to in this
00:51:14
case you're going to have to join us back here in the garage next week but until then Colonel do we have any
00:51:21
recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week captain no surprise here we are recommending Where Do We Go
00:51:28
From Here chaos or Community by the great Dr Martin Luther King Jr in 1967 Dr Martin Luther King Jr isolated
00:51:36
himself from the demands of the Civil Rights Movement he rented a house in Jamaica with no telephone and labored
00:51:44
over his final manuscript here he lays out his thoughts plans and dreams for America's future with a universal
00:51:53
message of hope that continues to resonate King demanded an end to Global suffering powerfully asserting that
00:52:00
humankind for the first time has the resources and Technology to eradicate poverty check out this week's
00:52:08
recommended reading Where Do We Go From Here chaos or Community by Dr Martin Luther King Jr you can find that title
00:52:17
and many great other recommendations on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com and until next week be good
00:52:25
be kind and don't [Music] live